EEVblog 1508 - We FINALLY Got Alkaline Battery LEAKAGE!
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2022
- After the 3+ year experiment that started in March 2019 we FINALLY have some alkaline battery leakage failures! Did the Duracell's fail?
That pesky potassium hydroxide forming potassium carbonate.
Battery leakage video playlist: • Alkaline Battery Leakage
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#ElectronicsCreators #Alkaline #Battery - Наука та технологія
Would also say it is a batch and plant thing, with the different batches made in different plants having a different time to leakage. Different machines stretch the steel case differently, and leave thinner metal in the side, so the case ruptures on some, and a burr on the die leaving a thin positive metal pressing edge that popped.
Would say you want to take a few different cells, different batches, different brands, and do a stress test on them, probably involving first discharging to flat by using the 1k resistor, then start to charge them using a 5V supply and a 1M resistor to give a trickle charge.
Carbon zinc batteries use the same manganese dioxide depolariser, but instead use an ammonium chlorate paste as electrolyte, almost dry, mixed with the depolariser and a filler, often wood dust.The old air depolarised ones had a much thicker zinc case, and a full volume of the paste in contact with the carbon rod positive, but would only be able to supply a 100mA load for an hour before drooping down to almost nothing, till they had gained enough oxygen from the air, via a vent plug sealed with (on old ones) with balsa wood plugs, or a fired ceramic on later ones. Those were in phones, to power farm lines, and might last a half century in service.
To get them to cook off nicely take a few packs of the batteries and put in your attic, or under the solar panels in a nice ziploc food baggie, and leave for the summer, so the thermal cycling takes them out. Ziploc so they keep dry, but cook nicely under the panels in the sun. They survive in the AC, thermal stress will kill them quickly. I had to toss away a good number of AA and AAA packs that did that, left in the garage and being done over by thermal cooking and humidity in Durban winter, they die much faster in summer when it clocks over 40C in there.
For sure there would be batch variance issues. I have a thermal chamber so could control it, but I like the idea of a roof test now that it's coming into summer.
Manufacturing variance is looking very very likely. Kinda-annoying.
Could not say better. Manufactures are always changing the machines and processes to optimize the production, so is difficult to make exactly the same product all the time.
We recently had to pull all but one of our 4 packs that were labelled as expiring in 2029 from the shelf because of a leaking battery. All of the packages that were older or newer were fine.
@@rogeriocosta1035 Bare in mind that comparing 'brands' isn't always that helpful either, mostly its just badge engineering. In Europe for instance many different brands all come out of the same factory in Belgium. So not only does the brand not always tell you who made it (as is so often the case now) but the plant it was manufactured in will vary by region.
You have to leave the Duraleak battery in a remote control, and it will leak immediately. It has a built-in special sensor to tell it to leak when placed in a remote control.
In an irreplaceable remote in my experience.
The odds of a leak are directly proportional to the expense or the importance of the equipment.
@@russellhltn1396 well, you may be on to something, cheap poorly designed devices may draw more energy, so cells are replaced before they have a chance to leak 🤔
Actually it's when you mix batteries and brands.
@@infernaldaedra I’ve used all sorts of alkaline batteries including energizer max and they all leak eventually.
I regularly have new in package Duracell, Energizer, and Rayovac leak. They have been stored in the climate-controlled portion of my home. It seems that alkaline batteries like to leak in expensive electronic devices - the more expensive, the more likely they will leak.
With remote controls the more difficult they are to dismantle for cleaning up the more likely the cells are to leak.
At this point my theory is that battery leakage is simply caused by sufficient time of the battery not being observed.
.... I concur, Quantum mechanics, it is aware it's being observered and alters it's state to correlate !
Schrödinger's battery is in both the leak and non-leak states until observation causes the wave function to collapse and the superposition of eigenstates resolves to a single state.
@@drewf64 surely it's more the watch pot never boils theorem? A watched battery never leaks.
The solution is to put cameras in your remotes.
Obviously you then need cameras to watch the camera battery.
@@benholroyd5221 .... String theory of infinite cameras imaging infinite batteries,
( Reminds me of a Vulcan edict ).
@@robbieaussievic no you wouldn't need infinite cameras. The first camera could watch the seconds battery and visa versa.
I believe there are controversial theories positing the a camera can watch its own battery, but at this point that is far from mainstream thinking.
My theory is that the propensity for a cell to leak is directly proportional to the damage it is going to cause, or more precisely how expensive it will be to fix or replace the damaged device! Of course your test didn't show much leakage. No expensive electronics were harmed in the filming of this vlog!
I had a toy from maybe 1990, it sat with duracells for 20 years or so and the batteries didn't leak. Any time growing up we knew we were going to put batteries in something and leave them for a number of years we'd always get duracells because of how rarely they would leak. fast forward to 2000-2005ish, something changed, manufacturing tolerances or quality... now they seem to leak like any of the much cheaper cells. Just another case of used to be great, now it's run of the mill.
I usually go for rayovac batteries in the usa because theyre good value, they do leak after a while but for the price and longevity its hard to beat. Oh, also living in Florida I find I have to check batteries every 6 months, the heat is NOT their friend lol. Leave a flashlight with some AAs in your car here, guaranteed to leak in a year or less.
Keep the test going for ones that haven't failed
Put 3 or 4 in series. attach your discharge resistor. The first one flat will get reverse current and start charging in reverse.
That was what I was wondering but it looked like that should have happened in the resistor test.
We had a lot of Duracells leak at the hardware store that I work at. There had to be at least 20 to 30 packages that had to be pulled because of a leaking battery. What's interesting is that they were all labelled as expiring in 2029. There was only one package from that production year that didn't have a leaking battery. Meanwhile we also had a package that was labelled 2028 that was fine, as well as any that were 2030 or later. (We had a lot of 4 packs due to an inventory miscount.)
I think what you should try is discharging a battery about halfway, then leaving it half discharged to see if it leaks. That seems to be general method I see my batteries leak. It's rarely fresh out of the pack, and it's rarely fully discharged batteries, but its always the ones you use halfway then stop. IT doesn't matter if it's something with a DC-DC converter that stops at 0.9V or a flashlight that you use for a couple of hours then put it away (e.g., for the next blackout, which always happens years later).
I think the positive terminal corrosion is actually from capillary action from the label wicking the liquid up to the positive end and the size and location of the leak ie which side of the seal, terminal or case, (literally which side of the gasket, internal diameter or external diameter) failed. Large or case/OD side leaks would wick up to the opposite terminal, small terminal/ID side leaks would stay only on the negative terminal.
Really old dry cell or zinc/carbon cells from my early childhood certainly did leak. They were a zinc cylinder with one open end filled with ammonium chloride paste and with a carbon rod down the middle. Some had other things packed around the carbon rod to help negate the effects of polarization and get longer life in higher power applications. The Zinc slowly dissolved as you used them, and if it happened to dissolve unevenly you got a leak. Some had a steel case around the outside to help reduce leaking, but other types didn't.
Absolutely. The old "Ever Ready" brand batteries destroyed many of my toys in the 1960s.
A possibility is that they may only really start to leak when confined. In relatively open containers the electrolyte can evaporate. But if it’s confined it could cause accelerated corrosion and the small crusties turn into massive dumps inside your electronics.
The more expensive the gadget, the more likely cell is to leak. And also the tighter the fit, more likely to swell up, then leak.
I use Duracells. The ones that leak for me seem to be the ones in electronics that get used a little, then sit unused for a year or so.
Exactly my experience, but this goes for any brand of alkaline battery. Stuff with too much quiescent current combined with a low cut off voltage. I have some remotes that do this, and some that don't.
Just recently I found some Philips alkaline D cells that had a use by date of 1986. They hadn't leaked, so storage and self discharge alone aren't necessarily the culprits.
The big difference is in the warranty, for the NA warranty the only brand that will repair or replace your device is Energizer. Michael Bluejay has a fantastic section of his site devoted to batteries.
I thought the chemistry of zinc carbon battery was common knowledge.
They were once the most ubiquitous primary cell.
Their construction was a brass cap central carbon rod, surrounded by a mixture of carbon and manganese dioxide paste. This was used to depolarize the carbon rod to stop the build up of pasivating hydrogen gas bubbles.
The outer was a can made of zinc metal, inside which was smeared with acidic electrolyte gel made of Sal ammoniac, better known as ammonium chloride. These cells were known to leak at the end of the cells active life, as the ammonium chloride invariable perforated the zinc container.
Bicycle lamps of the time used a 3 volt version of the battery, with a top brass positive cathode and a front brass clip negative anode, with most of the battery contained in a cardboard tube and bottom insulator. The top connection was held in place with a layer of shiny black pitch.
The bicycle lamps of the 1930s to 1960s were of a black painted, metal construction, which was usually damaged when the zinc carbon cells leaked, turning the lamp case to red rust.
Yes, I had many flashlights damaged by zinc carbon batteries back when zinc carbon were all we had. Then we got alkaline batteries and they leaked too. To clean up zinc carbon leakage you use a baking soda paste since they are acidic. To clean up alkaline you use vinegar. I also remember trying to clean leaky alkaline crud with baking soda and wondering why it didn't work and finally realizing they are called "alkaline" for a reason.
It's interesting how batteries have changed. I used to have terrible problems with the cheaper heavy duty batteries leaking when I was servicing in the 90s. I used to tell customers to use alkaline because they were much more reliable. I almost never saw an alkaline battery leak, and if they did, it was many years after the expiry. Now it seems that the issue is reversed. Time to go back to heavy duty cells.
After watching the beginning of this test in 2019, I came across some Kodak AA batteries I’d had since I worked for them in the 90s. The pick ticket from the parts system was dated 1994. Much to my surprise, none of them had any signs of leaking. Even more shocking was they all metered out just over 1.6v. The he highest was 1.64v. I put them in a couple of small clocks and they worked for months. I’ve been writing on the back of the clock and so far the Kodaks lasted about 45 days longer than any Energizer or Amazon Basics. I’m guessing they were made by Eastman Chemical but I don’t think they make batteries today.
You can still buy Kodak brand batteries today (at least, here in the UK), but they're not made by Kodak. They just licensed their brand name and the batteries are made in China.
I remember when i was a kid in early-mid 90's Kodak batteries was longest lasting in high consumption toys. And after they was completely discharged i kept them in box bc i found out that after few days of resting they still had some enough energy. I was shocked because everybody was crazy about Dur...ll, Va..a, Ener..er and nobody knew how great Kodak batteries was.
@HwAoRrDk Licensing your brand to another manufacturer is the easiest way to destroy the brand, unless you stay on top of the manufacturer's QC.
You should use series battery holders with 4 (6V) and 6 (9V) cells connected to a 1 meg resistor to more realistically reproduce the conditions where I've always found leaks - in devices.
I used to be a Duracell fan back in the day but the last decade or so I was constantly dealing with them Leaking. I got tired of throwing my money away on batteries and worrying about leakage and completely migrated over to Ni-MH rechargeable's and I couldn't be happier. It's so nice to stand in line in the grocery store and look at batteries and think... nope don't need any of you leaky suckers.
Absolutely the way to go - even if a rechargable only lasts 5 recharges you've saved money and resources - and the hybrid NiMH's now have good charge-retention in storage too.
I've had this similar history with Dura-leak, I'll have to try the Ni-Mh approach
I have a suspicion that some duracell batches never have leaks, but like 50% leak in other batches.
I used to buy Kirkland batteries (Duracell) at Costco and never had any issues. However, I had a plague of leaks from the last pack I bought. I suspect this effect is less obvious when buying small packs.
Kirkland's are the WORST; ANY device that has Kirkland's in it will be destroyed.
In the old all-in-one Macintosh computers (128k to the Classic II), Maxell batteries were used to power the RTC (PRAM). After all of this time, it's been found that those red Maxell 1/2 AA batteries are guaranteed to have leaked after 30+ years and killed many a logic board. Because of this, the Maxell batteries have earned the nickname "Max-Kill".
Ask an Amiga fan about Varta :)
@@ssalient I know that one all too well myself. Amiga computers and a select vintage of 386 and 486 PCs also have suffered from the "Varta bomb". I've repaired a few of those and even created a small PCB to ad to those systems that would allow a non-rechargeable CR2032 to be installed if there's a lack of an external battery connection.
I imagine that most electrolytes in batteries are either acidic or basic. If you let them sit for decades they are bound to leak.
The lipo-based AA /AAA ~$10 ones are good. USB socket on the side of them to recharge. Built in charge/buck module. Lasted over seven months in a weather station.
Pro tip: coat your battery terminals with dialectic grease. This will help protect them from corrosion if the battery does leak.
I have to do this with my maglite flash lights. I can drill the battery carcasses out of the aluminum tube but if the end cap gets corroded on, it's over for the light. These batteries swell when they discharge and don't always come out of those flash lights.
@@88ariesk Maglites seem to be one of those applications that guarantee a leaky battery. If you let one sit unused for a few years the batteries will always be swollen up.
I think the Duracell's were used A LOT in a particular period, with the notion "they do not leak", and so we forgot them, and found them the most 20 - 40 years later in these old forgotten devices... leaking.
I have a set of speakers which always gets at least one of its four AA cells to leak. It reverse charges one in the series, and you can hear it fizz, usually after 6 months of use or so.
I thought it must just be me but i spent over 20 odd years repairing remotes and all sorts of gear up here in the Queensland heat and in all that time only ever saw a couple of duracell leaks almost all the ones i saw were energizers, so i figured it as sales people having a lend.
Anectodically, I have a pair of Duracell alkaline AAs that came preinstalled in my Microsoft bluetooth mouse way back in 2014.
They were made in "2013/06" and should've expired in March 2019, but they still haven't leaked and they do still power my mouse (granted, mouse didn't see much use until recent years). No weird chemical deposits or anyhting, they're like new externally.
They have "DURACELL" stamped out in a circle on their negative pole, say "Original Equipment Accessory", and, apparently, were made in -Toronto- in China, but they do mention a Duracell division (?) in Toronto.
The funny thing is that rubber parts on the mouse started disintegrating faster than it was ruined by battery leaks :^)
(although it's still a good mouse)
My personal experience with leaving alkaline batteries in remote controls, electronic scales, calipers, etc. is that they will all leak eventually. It may take 3+ years but it will happen. I still use my TI92+ from my undergrad years every now and then and have to change its batteries every 4-5 years because of leaks. Instead of wasting AAs in it, I'm now using thumb screws as spacers to fit AAAs instead so there is less material to leak and a better chance that I may need to change batteries before it happens. The latest set of batteries to have leaked in my TI92 were Energizer and the next set before that were Duraleak. All four cells leaked both times.
Based on my empirical data, sub-1mA load over years appears to be one way of repeatably making alkaline batteries leak.
Funnily enough, I did wonder whether a trickle current over a long time might be a contributing factor. Remotes would be an obvious candidate for this, along with the fact that they can take a lot of knocks and bumps over the years.
Having those batteries kept in multiple containers like that has me thinking of.... potato salad.
In the early 2000’s when night vision first became affordable for the masses, I owned a NighOwl gen-1 NV monocular that would totally destroy any brand or type battery that you could think of. It took 2 AA alkaline batteries to drive the sensor, display, image processor, and a small IR illuminated. It was surprisingly very conservative on power consumption, but, every battery I put in would end up leaking and corroding the terminals, sometimes in as little time as a few days. It was so bad that I had to just put it away in storage, partly because I couldn’t afford a new set of batteries every time I wanted to use them but mostly because the springs simply wore out from constantly swapping batteries and cleaning the terminals so often that it wouldn’t make a good connection anymore. Back then I remember thinking it must have something to do with the type of metal that they used for the positive and negative terminals, as well as drawing a small amount of current when powered off. I never remember finding the batteries dead or even mostly drained 🪫, so the power draw when off couldn’t have been very much, but obviously just enough to make it.
They tend to leak when they are used in a very low current consuming device. Not when pulled harder. Nor in storage really. Alot of duracells start to sweat instead of really leaking, like you showed.
Load them down with a resistor in series with number of diodes to simulate whatever junction drop voltage you'd like.
I did a similar experiment a few years ago with very random results then after a very hot spell of weather - bingo - I caught them in the act! Warm/hot weather expands the fluid in the battery which pushes on the rubber seal and eventually the metal to rubber contact fails and the alkaline will seep out. My conclusion was that heat cycling of the batteries was the main factor for batteries leaking prematurely. If you live in a country that regularly sees temperatures in the 30-40+C range in the summer or the device is left in the sun or in a very hot environment it is not surprising that batteries will fail more quickly.
After this video I think it might have to do with mechanical manipulation - I've most often had leakage in things that i don't handle as gently as I probably should - tv remote controls, rc remote controls, the steam controller etc.
There is one variable that you didn't include in your test . The tendency of batteries to leak is directly proportional to the value of the device it is left in.
But kudos for your commitment to this long term test , and thanks too.
I did notice that when I moved from a location at near sea level, to a location above 3500 ft elevation I noticed rubber seals on just about everything I owned failed pretty quickly. I also had a lot of devices where batteries also leaked (not immediately but after some time). I wonder if after the rubber seals age in place they loose the ability to flex in response to pressure, humidity, and temperature changes.
Was thinking something similar, as the last time I had batteries leak it was in a bathroom LED light. Water shouldn't have gotten in, but it was likely prone to a fair amount of thermal cycling.
I have a couple of duracells and 4 energizers in their original sealed plastic packaging from 2008 and both duracells have leaked and only 1 energizer has slight leakeage. Just took them out of the package and all read 1.53V+
carbon-zinc use an acidic electrolyte usually in a paste. The outer can is usually the zinc electrode, so when the battery wears out it will be because the zinc electrode is depleted and it will in that case leak.
We learn so much from you sir.
Thank you for the correct chemical explanation of what leaks and what happens to it in the air. Great to hear it.
Zinc-carbon (or zinc-chloride) cells have slightly acidic conditions in them due to the ammonium chloride being present in the electrolyte, as shown in the datasheet at 13:20. During operation, the zinc metal casing is being oxidized into zinc(II) chloride and the manganese(IV) dioxide is being reduced into manganese(III) oxide.
This means that the zinc casing is being progressively corroded during discharge and (to a lesser extent) during storage. So zinc-carbon cells can absolutely leak, but they will not form much internal pressure to force the contents out. So unless the structurally weakened cell is mechanically squeezed, leaking is rarely observed.
Not my experience - some zinc carbon cells used to leak horribly (anyone remember "every ready" brand in the UK?), sometimes oozing acid all over the device and corroding battery contacts away. The contents become a strong acid, not "slightly acidic", as zinc chloride is much stronger acid (pH 1) than ammonium chloride (pH 6) and is formed as the battery is used up. Generally a fully discharged zinc-carbon cell would be close to leaking as the zinc wall was nearly all eaten through at that point. You learnt to never leave a dead battery in a device back then... Acids are more destructive than alkalis for many metals.
There's also the reality that if you cut a zinc chloride cell open then it's only damp, there's no free liquid as such just dampness.
Cut a same size alkaline open and you'll have a small puddle of free liquid.
If you don't have much liquid in the first place then there's not much ability for it to leak.
The best way to get one to leak is to put it in some equipment that you really like.
$500 meters or weapons optics, guaranteed to leak. $50 flash light will leak a few times. Cheap ass tv remote never leaks... of course I started using NiMH in remotes a long time ago, so my data is skewed.
I have seen this from boom boxes, to remote controls, to weather stations, portable radios, and even fluke and harbor freight multi-meters.. I am not sure there is just one single product that causes the leaks. Seems to be everything. Though (in my experience) while most leaked while the product was off, the batteries in the weather station leaked while the LCD display was active.
They usually fail in a tv remote. Also seem to fail when there is a slight amount of moisture change regularly. Probably because the rubber drys out.
Oh you doing the test again! haha I wonder why I always watch these :) :)
All I know is the name brand (Duracell) and store brand (Kirkland / Sam's Club) bulk packs I buy, they usually leak within ~9months. Some sooner, some later, just sitting in storage. I lose about 33% in those bulk packs to leaking.
I wonder if the environment plays a role in it? I live in a hot (not humid) environment, so they're normally stored around 75-80deg F.
I've had most leakage with Eveready alkalines. Almost ruined a few expensive electronics gadgets but I managed to clean them up fairly well and save them from the bin.
Regarding the hypothesis about load characteristics I think you might be on to something since I see these things leak the most in 'soft power' devices, but weirdly never in analogue Quartz clocks where it is normal for the batteries to be left a couple of years constantly discharging.
In my experience, temperature control or lack there of is the real reason for batteries to leak quickly. The other issue is how long have these batteries been sitting on shelves, waiting for someone, anyone to buy them and put them to use. Might be that the lot of us are buying already age degraded batteries unknowingly. And this particular issue is probably more pronounced on Duracell due to their marketing.
Correct that alkaline usually leak in super hot/humid and also super cold/dry attics or storage. Under normal circumstances, they rarely leak. Duracells do not fit this criteria. Marketing is irrelevant, 2010s Duracells were the worst alkalines ever made.
Excellent video, I have noticed leaky batteries most often appear when placing batteries in parallel, as opposed to series as you have them there. The reason is they charge each other. Therefore, have one discharged in parallel with a charged one will cause the discharged one to be charged, which is the primary cause of leaking batteries.
Batteries are very seldom put in parallel.
@@okaro6595 You are correct, however, lithium ion cells are put in parallel all the time... Diodes allows safe connections in parallel, as well as improving performance 10x by removing wasted self charging.
@@Paul_Bearden - This video is about ALKALINE batteries, not Lithium. And they don't use diodes in parallel connected battery packs, as that makes an unnecessary voltage drop, yet adds no benefit whatsoever.
Awesome, Dave! I have had a few Energizer cells leak. I think I've had a few cells of like all the major brands leak at some point. However, I have had a higher percent of Duracells leak. Of course, that's not to imply that all Duracells instantly leak, far from that!
Interesting about the manganese! I know it's often used as a catalyst for certain reactions but that only takes trace amounts.
Oh, and I *finally* had to replace the Eastman (of the Eastman Kodak fame) AA cell in my alarm clock. That cell lasted about 25 years or so! It finally got low enough that I could see the clock chasing individual segments on the LCD.
If you still have the battery, it'll be interesting if you posted up pictures of its label.
@@h8GW I'm not sure if a link will work here (I'm also hyper aggressive with my firewall rules) so if it doesn't work let me know and I can look into posting it over on the forum. randomer.net/stuff/aa-cell.jpg
That Kodak battery must have used ultra pure chemicals and strictest quality control for sure.
@@Crazytesseract Yeah, no kidding! I'm blown away by how long it lasted in continuous use. The alarm clock has been my "daily driver" since the mid-late '90s. It also speaks volumes for how low-power the Timex alarm clock is.
Maybe there is something about amount of time that pass since manufacturing until you start discharging them.
If a torch is the favorite place for batteries to leak, maybe the peak discharge current has an effect.
I have seen them leak on low power stuff and also on "hi" (cheap LED torch), but not consistent. Could it be that non constant discharge has an effect?
Interesting, might have something to do with humidity?
I get them here every year. Even worse when they were left in the remote or so.
My thought would be the dual battery holders with the resistor but discharge one battery to 50% so they are at different charge states. I remember reading multiple times that you are not supposed to mix batteries or charge states. I'm wondering if some sort of reverse charging excellerates deterioration.
I have my doubts about it being the way the batteries are being discharged. A couple of years back I posted a pic of a pack of radio shack batteries I found that had leaked while still in the original blister pack. Could there be something weird going on with the chemistry? Some kind of runaway reaction?
I can almost say for certain that it is not a battery manufacturing issue. I have a headlamp that will consistently cause batteries to leak. I have to take the batteries out of it otherwise the batteries will leak within about 3-4 months. This is with multiple batteries as well. If I get the time and income I'll send the lamp to you if you'd want to investigate, I'm genuinely curious but don't have the time to investigate it myself.
It might be an idea to ask the community what devices may be prone to having leaked batteries? I think devices with gaskets (waterproof devices) are prone to leaking, I think it may have to do with venting...
This made something click for me. I think you are on to something.
Thanks! I tried a kind of "recharge" the cells with const voltage (ca. 1.6V) and resistor limited current to ca. 1mA. And got a rel. high percentage leaking when they were laying around afterwards.
The "recharge" effect is also the cause of leakage in devices using 2 or more cells in series, when a weaker cell goes into "recharge" reverse voltage.
That may create hydrogen bubbles in the cell, increasing the internal pressure. In theory the manganese dioxide should take care of the hydrogen, but that's probably rather slow. Primary cells in general shouldn't be recharged.
My guess would be that environmental conditions play a big part in leakage, if I leave something with a battery in it in my shed it will leak pretty quickly (6 months to several years) even if they weren’t flat when I forgot to take them out.
7:30 the positive end doesnt look like its one peice with the casing, so it might be a bad pressfit/solder joint
Hi Dave, Great video as always. Would like to hear your opinion and see any testing of Eneloop NiMh batteries. Used to be Sanyo but now taken over by Panasonic. Difficult to find any serious tech data on them. Oh, Happy New Year. 🙂
I wonder if leakage could be more prevalent in conditions where the current drawn is variable as well as a varying environmental temperature/barometric pressure/humidity etc.
Never seen someone so excited to get annular leakage :D
I've had many customers come into work with energiser batteries that have leaked the most. I can't comment on Duracell as they are not very common around nz tbh but I do use a lot of batteries myself and have had a few different brands leak mostly Panasonic and energiser with one anko batt that I had left in one of my emergency torches.
I personally have switched to el cheapo zinc chloride batteries. Yes they leak but can be cleaned up without any acid damage to the equipment.
For what's it's worth, I find I see leakage most often in devices that have non-uniform power usage. For example, wireless game controllers that periodically attempt to reconnect to their paired device, or remote controls (especially those that also have lights or displays). I'm wondering if the period spikes in power draw is contributing to causing the leakage (however tiny that power draw is)
The likelihood of an alkaline battery leaking correlates directly to the price and/or importance of the device in which they're installed.
I just repaired a disaster in my Magite 3D torch.
The cell which had the cap spring bearing on it leaked very badly, even though the cells were not flat.
Maybe spring tension does play a part?
Perhaps the sealed tubs make a difference. Keep them in an open box to make sure they have ample access to CO2 and oxygen.
Oxygen attacks rubber slowly - the anti-oxidants in the rubber gradually get used up.
I'm thinking that damp has caused this. As soon as there's enough to bridge both electrodes, plating is going to start dissolving the metals.
I suspect that the whole duraleak thing is just due to the fact that they make significantly more batteries than anyone else. Confirmation bias being what it is, people associate them with being leaky simply because they are more common.
In my experience all alkaline batteries leak, doesn't really matter who made it.
I stopped using Duracell years ago after an umpteenth leak cleanup and switched to Energizer. I haven't had any leak problems since.
I wonder if environmental conditions (temperature, humidity) influence whether a battery will leak. That Fluke you repaired recently - did it see much field use? Was it stored in a garage, where it would be more exposed to elements than in your lab in the office building?
Is there something under x-ray or microscope the leaking batteries have in common? Interesting to find out. Applied science should be able to have a good look at them.
They only leak if installed in something expensive or critical. I just had an Eneloop leak. I didn't think those rechargeable NIMH batteries leaked. I know NiCad leak though.
Battery leakage happens according to Murphy's laws: it won't show until you put those batteries in an expensive-ass Fluke multimeter.
3:45 that's a nice approach, testing different factors here. I'd suspect it's a small (single mA order of magnitude, maybe even fractions of mA) current draw over extended time.
Atmospheric influence might be at play, especially moisture and corrosion. Might be an idea to test one box of batteries with a few drops of water in it, comparing it with another one with some silica gel. If there's a difference, we might as well have pinned it.
Carbon zinc batteries definitely contain manganese (manganese dioxide to be precise), as well as some ammonium chloride on the interface between zinc and MnO2. Back in my teen days I took s lot of these batteries apart to get materials for doing chemical experiments (electrolysis etc.) in my lab, haha. Good old days!
I‘ve got the suspicion that all are made by Murphy Battery Co. and that you have to put them in a device of a certain value to leak. If you got 10 different torches, I bet the one in the most expensive will leak first.
I bet the tubs and likely steady temperature did them some good. I imagine that oxygen and temp flux will speed up the leakage because I've definitely seen batteries start leaking much quicker than 3 years of sitting.
By putting them in fully sealed containers are you depriving them of enough oxygen to sustain a reaction?
I don't think it's how long they're being discharged that starts causing them to leak, but moreso based off of the construction of the battery. I have had off-brand batteries sit in a product for 10+ years without leaking, duracells sit in stuff for years and years, costco brand batteries leak while still brand new in the packaging after sitting for a year, and so on. I wouldn't be surprised if the leakage is due to where/when the batteries were made and on what equipment. Maybe something in the production process was using a worn-out tool and there was a manufacturing defect in a certain batch, or maybe they were just not sealed properly. I would be really interested to see an ultra long-term test, maybe 5+ years, of batteries from all different manufacturers in all kinds of equipment, and a control group of brand new batteries unused in the packaging. It might also be worthwhile to get each different brand from a number of different stores to see if maybe it's an issue with specific batches.
I also wonder if some material seeps out of plastic that attacks the seal in some cells. I have many cob led torches that frequently have catastrophic battery leaks. I carry spare cells for these torches and despite being the same age, stored in the same field service backpack toolkit (and hard case with another) none of the stored spares have ever leaked. Also I have swapped cells out while in use so some of the spares have been stored in a more discharged state. I also keep a few Kodak blue 2AA led torches (one in each case) and these have never had a cell leak. I started suspecting a plastic derived volatile compound was killing the seals after the third cob torch failure, and they were all so bad the cells could not be removed, the torch (side cob magnetic style) were trashed. All these torches use mechanical switches and this problem has been recurring over many years.
Just another one for the mix...
It's also possible the anecdotal evidence is skewed.. Duracell are likely 1 or 2 most popular of this type of battery so you'll likely find them in more devices. Couple that with confirmation bias and that could account for much of the evidence. Even if they were more prone to leakage they may have fixed it some years ago. I'd be interested in seeing an interview with someone at Duracell to see what they have to say
Maybe you could also look at all the fire alarms being sold with a "10 year battery" that supposedly meet new U.S requirements.
Based on the reviews, it seems like basically none of them actually lasts 10 years. More like 2 years.
Perhaps you could measure the current consumption and the capacity of the battery and see if it's even possible in the first place.
Man time flies. I remember you putting these batteries in this years back.
What about the 'Best Before'-Date?
I think I saw that the wallaby one that leaked is over the date, but I think a Panasonic should still be good for a couple of years.
I've got some alkaline cells to leak when I deep-discharge them. Not always tho. Better slow discharge them to 1.2-1.0V (not measured under load) before you connect them to the joule thief. The joule thief was driving a generic 5mm cold white LED.
I think temperature cycling and physical handling may be factors as well.
Agreed, An ideal place for Dave to test would be the old old lab at home. Lots of thermal cycling.
My expectation has been confirmed: it's not the brand, it's the quantity.
Some batteries will leak, due to manufacturing differences. But if 80% (made-up number) of the people have duracell in their devices, there's a disproportionately high chance it will be one of that brands that fails.
I had brand new AAA's just left in storage in their original packaging, never used them (apart from the ones i took out for use)...and 30% of what was left in storage leaked out after a few years.
I guess its just time and chemistry based, not physical/discharge, since it happened to full never used batteries.
It seems very few leak in a year or so. It's not if... it's when with Alkaline. I would be shocked if after 2 or 3 years if all are leaking. Seems to be worse in hotter storage like in the garage, truck tool box or in a flashlight in a car etc?
What is the main determinant of leakage? Heat? Humidity? Orientation? Age? discharge level ?
I use rechargable NiMH batteries in almost everything because they not only save money in the long run but they also do not leak like this, even when fully discharged.
Duraleaks have killed so many devices I swapped my entire house to Eneloops one day regardless of the cost.
Changed the language on my phone to 'English (Australian)' so TTS would have an accent. I was surprised by the term Torch... what other surprises will there be.
Light machine oil has the ability to break down some polymers like rubber. It causes cracking, usually of polycarbonate and PS plastics. Maybe the air has some impact on the rubber seals (salt content, etc) and thus causes leaking?
Discharging batteries in SERIES is a good way to make them leak. As each cell has a different capacity the first one to go flat will be force discharged by the others. This is worse than completely discharging a single cell. This is why a cell can be sometimes found with reverse polarity.
Since most "dripped" their goo down too the positive terminal it might be the orientation of the battery that makes them touch off? some magic angle?
Perhaps temperature, humidity, country of origin, batch number and even more other factors also influence? xD Too many variables.
Anyways, adding to the pool of anecdotal experiences... I had a major unintentional one here.
Story time: Back in the end of 2019 I went to the end year trip to relatives and then back to my hometown expecting to stay there for a couple of months to help my mom move to a new apartment. Then Covid hit. Then I stayed there... up until a couple of weeks ago.
During those almost 3 years, my apartment remained closed down and unvisited. Yes, during the entire time. I'm still cleaning things up. I live downtown, so you can imagine how much soot and dust accumulated.
Anyways, when I go on long trips I usually take batteries off of everything, but guess what, I forgot a few stuff... because of course I would forget exactly at the wrong time. Not many though, just a wireless keyboard and mouse from Dell, and one headlamp thing that I didn't even remember I had lying around, perhaps one old TV remote.
So far, hopefully it stays that way, I found 8 leaked double As. 6 of them are standard Duracells. 2 are Eveready Gold.
Now, for a few details -
2 Duracells leaked the white crystal stuff all over, this was the one inside the Dell keyboard, it made a mess. But it seems the keyboard is still working after cleaning things up and replacing the battery. I didn't quite test it though, just know that it's turning on ok... if the stuff got into the membrane pad though, I might have to replace it.
2 Duracells leaked even worse, going from white crystal stuff to green corrosive stuff. These ones were inside the headlamp, the corrosion invaded the led circuit and led itself, and when I pulled the batteries off of it, kinda stuck, the metallic contact tab came with it. The reaction was probably a bit violent as I'm seeing the stuff all around the battery case including some in the outside.
2 Duracells only had that small leak that discolored the bottom part of the plastic, like if it was dipped in oil or something... can't remember where those were. TV remote perhaps? If so, it also didn't damage it much.
2 Duracell Quantums, some fancier version of Duracells with a battery tester, leaked... unused inside a drawer. Same as above, you can see a discoloration of the plastic and an oily coat. These might be kinda old though, not sure how long I had them just laying around inside the drawer. But I also had a couple of Panasonic triple As that were intact.
The 2 Eveready Gold that was inside the Dell Mouse also went the same way, oily coat, label discoloration... didn't seem to affect the mouse much though, change of batteries, it's ok.
Of course, all uncontrolled, anecdotal, not sure about the dates on those... I might have bought all of them at different times. But just thought of sharing, since it's the subject. xD
For my mom, who has a tendency to completely forget about those batteries, during my time there I decided to splurge a bit and replace everything with rechargeables, plus a Nitecore recharger. NiMhs, I went with Philips and Toshiba because they were the cheapest I could find. Might do the same now that I'm back home here, but man, it's an investment.
Some of the best data I've seen in these comments. The UA-cam algorithm is an 🖕asshole
I'd call these "fabric like seals" cardboard seals. Mix of cellulose and lignin is also a mix/unoriented mesh of fibers and it differs from paper only by ammount of lignin present - in paper almost none, being put through bleaching - cardboard isn't, average fiber lenght and thickness - paper is shorter and thinner and presens of fillers - in cardboard none. And only question remained - what is that black coat? I'd bet first on some kind of polyester and second on vinyl - both are main ingedients of many powder and liquid paints, inks, coats and impregnators.