My employer scuppered chance of job interview with a bad reference. What can I do? [LBC Legal Hour]
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Jane was devastated after a job interview was withdrawn following an unsatisfactory reference from her existing employer. Daniel sets out three options from 'softly softly' to a claim for constructive dismissal. And he provides further advice on a claim based on a 'negligent reference'.
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This video is published by Employment Law Services Limited. The information in this video is for general guidance only and, although the presenters and publisher believe it was correct at the time it was recorded (April 2022), the law may have changed since then. You should always seek your own independent legal advice. Please note that for employment law, the law explained applies to England, Scotland and Wales. For all other areas of law, it applies to England only.
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One of my favourite people on here. He does not mince words when a caller is in the wrong, but he is always as supportive as he can be, with (what sounds like) solid advice. Amazing.
Yup, as a lawyer you're used to dealing with people only telling their side in a way that puts them in the best light. But he still makes it clear what their options are, even the ones they won't like.
This reminds me of something that happened to me when I worked in Sainsburys years ago. I was working as a supervisor when I applied for a trainee management scheme to become a store deputy manager. The manager received an email on store computer and deleted it (small Sainsburys Local with about 20 staff). The bastard deleted the email which invited me to an interview. I only found out when the deputy manager actually came and told me what happened. When I confronted the manager he said he couldn't have me leaving because he needed me to run the store during the evenings. I went and made a grievance complaint to the area manager and the store manager ended up resigning after he got a disciplinary. I ended up getting the job and worked as a deputy manager for another 4 years before I got fed up with retail. The slimy weasel tried to fuck me over to make his own life easier. The job wasn't even worth it, I was only making £1.50 more an hour then before.
Poor you at least you found out the truth!😮😂
I doubt that, they would have replaced you so it shouldn't have affected your manager unless you were doing extra work and they didn't think they could find someone to do that too
@@sie4431 Oh the manager had some other issues with regards to theft, this happened in 2011 at the Ealing Common store. Im not sure what happened to him but last I heard he ran away to Wales.
than
@@sie4431I don't doubt it, replacing reliable people is hard. You need to find them, train them and you don't know whether they will be trouble or leave. Most bosses would delete the email.
SENCO - another non job with inflated pay. Many know nothing about teaching and it’s not surprising that this lady did not get the Deputy Head job she coveted.
If the reference was genuine and she is useless, she wins a payout either way. Yay for bad teachers.
Teachers are basically sack proof
Unions will not support constructive dismissal cases. They rarely go to court for members, I have scores of employees coming to me with this issue.
I have represented at court three times now for members of trade unions who were refused support and won both at settlement level and at judgement level. The solicitors unions use are unfair, unsupportive and downright wrong.
I have no recognised legal qualifications, but see cases regularly that are straightforward and supported with substantial evidence told ‘no’ by the unions. Citizens Advice Bureau’s do their best but can only refer to solicitors for representation that many cannot afford.
So few solicitors put aside a tiny amount of their time for pro bono work it’s sad and it’s left to people like me to do our best for free to help people in awful situations.
Most of the work I now do is for union members who are badly represented. I have to advise them that if they tell the Unions they are seeking outside advice they will cease to represent them but they are desperate for help.
Unions are becoming less and less effective and reps are getting no training on employment law outside of the company handbook.
Hi Can I have your contact please. I'm a member of a union, I've recently left my job in CD circumstances
The weird thing is the NHS doesn't allow staff to give formal references, at least in the organisations I am familiar with. The reference has to be provided by HR and only includes the number of sick days for the previous 2 years and whethere there are any outstanding discplinaries.
Jobs are scam. I would raise a grievance stright away.
This happened to me too. I suspect my old employer gave me a bad reference on top of telling me to withdraw from the job so i cant get another new job. Now i feel like they ruined everything and i hate them for that.
Is love to know how she processed and what the outcome was. Hope it all worked out for her and she got recompense for that targeted action.
This shows just how stupid the reference system is. There's an incentive to write a bad reference to encourage a good employee to stay. And on the other hand, there's the incentive to write a good reference to encourage a bad employee to leave.
Note that I always had glowing references from all my employers....
Teachers are governed by separate rules and regs in comparison to a worker who does not work in a school. Thee must be a reason why the teacher has put that down.
I thought Daniel Barnett would be a old man with a bald head a bit like Ian Dale
To be fair he is nearly bald. He is currently using the comb over technique.
Cannot see the point of giving someone a bad reference. It's just spiteful. If someone is a bad worker, that will all come out when they start and they will get fired. Giving someone a bad reference out of spite is disgusting.
When you have had a truly awful employee surely it’s the morally right thing to tell the truth and save any future employer the grief? For example if you had an employee who was stealing money is it fair to let another employer find out the hard way and be left out of pocket?
A reference has to be accurate. You cannot lie in it, as the next employer could sue previous employer for misrepresentation
@@shez4058 I would not want to be the one giving references. Sounds like you could be sued either way. Of course, she could have given a performance review in the first place.
My father was given a bad reference once. He never worked in that field again. It was a huge struggle on us kids.
How odd, I thought you couldn't give personal references anymore. Pretty much you worked for this organisation and how long for.
I got refused a job because my previous employer forgot I asked him for a reference and refused to give one to my interviewer. I don't think you should be able to ask for references from a previous employer, your old employer should have 0 bearing on if you find a new job or not.
Especially with the 2 year rule limiting unfair dismissal claims. I was dismissed from a job after the most stupidly mishandled disciplinary process, I spoke to a lawyer and he said it would've been an easy case, except I didn't meet the 2 years service requirement to be able to bring it. The lawyer told me they were very unlikely to put in a reference that I was dismissed, because that would expose them to potential action, but they did. Fortunately I still got the job, otherwise they'd've been dealing with a lawsuit.
@@fang_xianfu You can always go to civil court, where you would have to show financial loss; you have up to six years.
Really appreciate every video you do Daniel, keep up the great work!
I've never heard of a teacher getting a bad reference. Usually the very worst teachers get the best references so the school can get rid of them quicker!
I was a union rep for 15 years. There are no limits to what a head's ego wont let them do!
Sounds like this head wanted to block her move and knew EXACTLY what she was doing
This is spot on! Sounds like they want her to stay and are unfairly giving her a poor reference! I had the same thing happen to me
I worked for a supply agency and had to read those references. It isn't that uncommon for heads to give shitty refs
I'm amazed that anyone (a) asks for references and (b) still gives them . They are just so prone to abuse. Try to keep a good employee by giving a bad ref or trying to get rid of one by giving an overly positive one. Utterly pointless. They are really worth nothing. For these reasons, subjective references are no longer relevant. My understanding is that most places of business will only acknowledge open facts e.g. length of service, maybe job duties ,etc. That's it. They are an anachronism and should be given the boot.
This is why some companies don’t give references. In my industry they normally (on request) write “We confirm that Joanna Bloggs was employed by us between XX/XX and XX/XX as a Marketing Assistant’ or whatever it was. Nothing more.
Yep
Most companies are like that
There are a great many heads who are the last people who should be in charge of anything.
I need to know what happened next!!!
Lots of employers are terrible at admin or performance management. Just because this lady's employer was incompetent in that regard, it doesn't mean she wasn't incompetent in the areas they raised in her reference. A reference wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on if employers just did their employees a favour every time one was requested and lied. The fact they readily shared the reference with her suggests they didn't believe they'd done anything they shouldn't have. Every time someone gets offered a job, a dozen or more others get refused - there's always someone better than you. Failing upwards isn't a right!
“I don’t know if you know much about teaching but assistant headship applications are horrendous, it took me about 12 hours to complete”
*Barnett has Vietnam flashbacks*
00:11
1:00
2:27
3:13 No!
3:59
4:42
5:08 Difference in earnings
👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️
These days most reffences are just started work ended work reason for leaving and positions held. Very few industries have report cards as such
No comment.
So ? what was the solution ?
Are bad references from a former employer illegal in the UK?
No, a reference needs to be true, fair, accurate and not misleading. It does not have to be good, full or comprehensive.
Employers have been sued over bad references. Most will only give basic details like when you started and finished, any time off sick etc. Just the indisputable facts. Things like disciplinaries are subjective (and often arguable, managers not following guidelines when issuing them, etc) so can land them in legal trouble.
Also GDPR is a minefield as a lot of information is now protected. The fines are huge if companies are found to be in breach.
TSB Bank Plc vs Harris (2000) is an example of an employer providing (confidential) information in a job reference of which the employee was not aware, and who was then able to successfully sue their employer.
I don't believe that references are worth anything more than a confirmation that the employee has worked there for a period of time...
If you have a good employee leaving, then saying anything other than good things would be cause for grievances and constructive dismissal etc.
If you have a bad employee leaving, then why wouldn't you want them to leave, rather than spend time/effort managing them out.
I suspect that providing a bad reference would be more likely if you have a good employee that you don't want to lose, or a really bad employee that you just want to stuff over.
Unfortunately bad references mean a bad employee.
Maybe listen to the full call first. I can assure you that references are frequently weaponised by bad employers. Perhaps you're one of them....
@@bec9255 Maybe, maybe not. The fact that they were happy to share the reference with her suggests they thought they hadn't done anything bad. Just because the sub-par subjects weren't brought up in performance reviews previously, doesn't mean there weren't issues.
@@bec9255 I worked for a bad employer, and even I still got a good reference
@@duplicitouskendoll9402 so why not bring them up in a performance review?
@@nameundefinedname5307 So why not just perform?