Years ago, before all these great vids were available, I had a mate who was up an oak removal. He did his face cut, was putting in his back cut and stopped cutting too soon, and didn't make any relief cuts on the side of the hinge. The spar split along the grain when he stopped cutting and he rode it to the ground and died. Had he kept blasting through that hinge when the top started to go, and put in some relief cuts on the sides, he'd probably still be alive. I was lucky, I learned all those hinge dynamics in a bucket truck long before I had to ever climb a tree and take a heavy top out. I saw it up close in a bucket how the spar can split below the hinge, and I learned to blast through more hinge than I needed to in order get the top tipping in brittle types of trees without splitting out. Even with relief cuts in the side, I still blast more hinge than I need to just to avoid these types of splits. Especially on oaks, where splitting along the grain is common. Conifers seem less prone to this type of spar split than oaks, so I usually will stop cutting sooner on them, simply because they are much lighter and don't seem to let go along the grain like oaks. I sure wish I could have taught my friend that trick before he made that last cut. Or that these types of videos were available to him before he got in way over his head. Thanks for your contribution to arboriculture, sharing your knowledge of these dynamics of hinge wood, relief cuts and spar push back. I just wish these videos were around 20 years ago. I've tried to impart the dynamics of push back of a top leaving a spar to all the new climbers I ever worked with, but it seems like you almost have to see it up close and ride it before you understand how hard a tipping top flexes the spar when the top tips on the spar and forces it back through that shift in center of gravity. I learned the hard way about oak splitting along the grain when popping out tops, and the only way to avoid it was blasting through the hinge even though the top was going, just to reduce the chance of the spar splitting out below the hinge.
Whew!! Good thing you had the foresight to leave plenty of slack in your climbing line attached to the neighboring tree in that 20 foot swing clip. Another lesson learned for me. Thinking of myself in that position, my instinct would be to snug climbing line just for sense of security, but would have been catastrophic in that situation. Thanks for another of your top notch vids.
Well said Reg, well said! I like to use the V back cut as opposed to boring just depending on the application or vice versa some form of bore cut and it’s just a matter of dept perception and preference as you mentioned. As the climber one must always ask himself what do you feel comfortable with and always go with your training and experience which is why most guys are not cut out to do or fully understand what you are trying to help them appreciate about the force put on those large stems. Most of us who climb have never or have rarely worked heights above 130ft and although similar the size of a 45ft top at 50ft above ground vs being 150ft above ground level or more really just should help any one with eyes 👀 see what you’re getting at but again and even the fact that you have to have the appropriate slack in you main line to counter that sway since essentially both stems will sway violently at times from all that force of the top being cut off, some just won’t get it and it’s a job for brave men like yourself and many others to keep the forest and roads safe while putting food on the table taking care of you and yours. I wish you much success this year as always man and appreciate the lesson and journey into your mind as to how you go about your craft way up there 👆 in those trees. It’s amazing and only a hand full of people compared to the majority, whether up higher or lower can attest to the power topping these majestic trees which are a true wonder of creation and we experience that every climb with the variety of trees we face daily under all shorts of circumstances too. My hat goes off to all you fellow tree brethren. Thanks for sharing this!
Great information. Thanks for taking the time to explain these details! Man, that spar was moving after the top dropped. I'm just glad that your rope had enough slack to not pull you off the stem at the maximum point of sway. I appreciate learning from your experience. Stay safe out there!
Great explanation on the reason to not be on the side of a tree. The wobbly stem will give you a ride after the top breaks loose. I've seen it multiple times in videos where people lose their footing after it wobbles.
well explained. never thought of that method to prevent BBC before. It seems like the cut sides create posts that are not attached to the tree above the face, so those fibers are not able to split, and that is enough to prevent the trunk split and subsequent BBC before the hinge gets thin enough to trip. Seems like if there was enough force it would still split, but just like with a coos bay, the overall amount of fibers between the top and bottom have been reduced enough to keep the tree from splitting. I have to think about this some more. Thanks for the thorough explanation. I also didn't realize there was that much push back going on up there. We get some, but east coast trees just aren't tall and skinny enough to act like that.
I got some push back topping a skinny fir and had thoughtlessly positioned myself back to another fir 10’ behind me. Just felt it touch my tee shirt! All fine but close enough to make me think!
Thanks Reg. I've always tried to make cuts well away from any knots so the grain in the hinge wood is straight through, but what you say right at the end makes a lot of sense. Leaving a knotty section close to the base of the leaning top being removed must surely help to prevent a case of barber chair
Thank you, Reg, for taking the time to answer your critics. They may never be convinced but those of us who do "take your word for it" get extra insight into your thought process and gain just a little bit more from your experience. Stay safe my Brother.
There are a lot of "timber fallers" these days that only fall trees, no limbing, no bucking and climbing if for hook tenders and arborists... the dynamics of cutting that high up a tree makes things interesting to say the least, not to mention the your stuck here kid until its done part, making the cuts is hard enough being strapped in, but then you just can't get away in time... I've done enough to know its not something I wan't to do all day every day, and I'll do it as needed, but I prefer to cut em from the ground now, and will spend a few hours to figure out how to do so rather then climbing the bastards
@@northmanlogging2769 when the tree lifts off its instantly blown away and down the hill or slopes.. Absolutely nothing dangerous unless your down below the flight zone.. I do have work because of not getting killed in the worst weather conditions..Deadlines get meet. May as well let mother nature help you with your work.
@@willshaw3561 well, I guess we'll see your obituary soon then, cutting in the wind makes trees do strange things, wind is largely unpredictable, wind uproots trees you are not even looking at, wind can cause a chair in a non leaning tree, wind knocks widowmaker out of standing timber, you cut in the wind your a damn fool
I’m studying to be an arborist as of right now, I love your videos, really interesting learning material, i’m a sponge to your experience and knowlege. Cheers from Belgium
I love this channel and I love when you share your knowledge and experience Reg! You are one of the all time greats, right up there with Graeme McMahon of sherbrooke trees!
Exceptional explanation to add to people wanting to know how far you’re swinging back towards the end of the video all they need to do is see where you’re tied into and they can tell how far your swing back-and-forth spot on about 20 feet swing to and fro.
Side cuts work, I did it also on big branches and at the ground on trees tensioned. In my opinion, with a small angle of the notch, the top breaks off quickly and the stem goes back 'cause you're taking off weight on it. Thanks for sharing
Love it, I put a statement/question on that vid and enjoyed listening to your reasoning here. Sometimes methods that usually makes sense for one priority are overridden by more important considerations. ie safety versus ‘the lay’ , thanks again.
It's nice to see something in depth regarding cuts when climbing. I just did my first tall white pine tree the other day. Cut the top at about 70 ft, top was 20 ft and man that thing took me for a ride! Slight lean but I put the top about 45° off the lean. Just made some small cuts in the side because I've seen other climbers do that, because of the peeling. I was wondering about what cuts would put the least amount of pressure on the stem. I need to cut the tree next to it and it is slightly compromised.... But this helps put a lot of this sort of stuff into perspective. Thanks Reg
Good informative video as always.One,what I can add is to remember when you cut the top of much lean tree( 30-40 degree).When top go,the trunk can turn to vertical position.
Nothing like standing at the bar after a day up extreme swayers and realising that you're still rocking in your boots like you've been at sea. That said, "taking the top out at 200 feet" made me gasp fairish...!!! Thats a different world . As always Reg, very much repect.
A good alternative that is not only safer but guarantees that there will be no split is to wrap the trunk up with a couple wraps of a piece of bull rope above the face cut a few inches to a foot, this prevents any split from going wide open into a barber chair and keeps the tree trunk intact while finishing the back cut, sometimes a extra piece of rope is worth it's weight in gold especially if it's placement saves your life or serious injury but just make sure that it is not attached to your harness, it should be a 15 or 20 foot piece that is long enough to wrap 2 or 3 times around the trunk and be firmly tied.
Another good one mate, especially for one-offs and falling from the ground. Not so practical if you are climbing multiple trees in a forest. And completely redundant if the split instead runs down the stem you are tied to, and not up the top you are removing.
Daniel Murphy in one of his youtube vids tries an intensional barberchair and wraps a load of bull rope around below the cut to prevent splitting there, but it was surprisingly ineffective, stretch etc I would choose chain if I wanted to try prevent barberchair that way. Doubt I’d lug that up a tree though!
Thanks for taking the time to put this together after your work day. Even though I'll probably never tackle anything of this magnitude, I still feel having benefited from your work experience makes me a better climber. Felling from the ground I was taught to leave a back strap for a number of reasons including avoiding a barber chair. Do you have any comments on using a back strap when topping one of these giants?
2 things Chris. Thats a 32 inch bar, so its difficult to lean back far enough in the lanyard to fit the whole saw and bar in between your body and the wood to make the bore cut. I have done it in the past, but its not easy to do safely. 2nd, on that particular stem you saw how much sway was created as the top tipped and broke off.....so with a release cut/back strap, youd essentially be releasing all the energy in an instant, instead of more gradually. Not sure thats a good idea. Maybe on different tree, but not that one.
Frankly, this is equal or better quality than a lot of talks I have sat through for arb CEU's. I'm really glad you made this video Reg. I saw some of the "initial" comments that you responded to on several of your topping videos about bore cutting and needing to make more open face cuts. Extremely ignorant. From my experience these sound exactly like what I hear from the level A/B/ worse yet, C Sawyers who have been through "all three" Game of Logging classes plus storm damage yet can't tie a bowline knot. Too many of them think their techniques are revolutionary and should be applied to any and all cuts in tree work, and are incredibly arrogant about it. A double bore and trigger setup with a very open face would not end well here, and would be very impractical to do in spikes/lanyard. There are surely other ways to accomplish a back release, but they approach every tree with same technique. They have a phobia toward pull ropes, completely ignorant of knots, terrified of heights, generally dangerous around vehicles and equipment and have a very mindless approach to doing every tree with wedges- like you said they are certain that every time they bore cut a tree they have prevented a "dangerous" barber chair they can be escaped from on the ground. Watching them cut spars is comical. There are a lot of them around trying to tell arborists how to do their job and getting into supervisory positions. Don't fall for their bs and do something you are not comfortable with. Egotistical, dangerous jackasses in my experience, trying to turn a safety crucial job into a competition.
I meant that about falling for their bullshit as a general caution to tree workers starting out and learning different techniques. It was not directed at you.
Great explanation pal most of us will never get in to 200ft trees but it's all good to know the knowledge will still be of use in smaller trees I learned a lot watching your vids most trees in south Yorkshire don't get that big though
That's the conclusion I came to in the bush. I make my cuts the same way.. Glad to see that someone much better skilled then I used this technique.. It only comes with hard lessons and learning curves
As always, great video Reg! Good tip on the side cuts, I completely agree about not wanting to bore cut up there! I usually just choke my climb line off, use a fast cutting saw, and brace myself for a rodeo ride. I have also used strapping in a decaying maple or cottonwood where the risk of barber chair starts to get really scary and climbing higher is not a better option. Stay safe bro!
Excellent explanation for newbies and the experienced. Sometimes experience masks fact and with it over confidence. Your video reminded me to allow for the “swingfactor” after the top goes on its’ merry way. I probably, unconsciously, make that allowance automatically but do I actually think about it when up close to the pearly gates? Probably not but will make the effort to assess carefully on the next few, similar to revising before an examination. Thank you and hope this video will save a few lives.
Thanks a lot for the video Reg graduating in to bigger jobs self employed this is the sort of mentoring I need that I don’t have any access to anymore. 👍
12:45 I've never bored into the middle of a hinge attempting to prevent a barber chair. When I have seen that done I always assumed it was to get the center wood on a tree too large to reach with the bar length in use. I'm not a professional by any means - but most of the trees I end up cutting are leaning alders, and they are brittle and prone to barbercharing. I bore through the side - taking the middle out of my back cut initially, so the portion opposite the face cut remains in tension. I'll bore in, form my hinge to the thickness that seems appropriate based on lean/weight/rot/etc, then start cutting from the middle of the backcut away from the hinge. When there are 2-3 inches of wood in tension remaining, I'll take my saw out of the bore/backcut, and cut the tension wood from the outside in - almost like a normal backcut, but there is much less and usually it has enough tension that it tears itself loose before the cuts meet up. Very interesting concept of narrowing the hinge to alter the tension distribution. Thanks for so many great videos.
Thanks Reg always wanted to know what you guys went through I'm a roofer and my jobs crazy enough I've always admired you guys takes a special man to do our kind of work but your credit you take the cake thanks for explaining it man it's a lot of s*** to it a lot of stuff to it wow thanks again
About the stain on your trousers, I used to do production brush cutting and remember being so soaked by the rain, when I had to pee, I could just let it go... Don't bother pulling it out...A sense of warmth was welcome at that point... Back to work! We all have stains on our trousers!
Another thing that might be worth thinking about, if you have a huge lean on the head like that it will be pre-bending the trunk a bit like flexing a plastic spoon with your finger. Once you release your finger the spoon snaps back, a similar thing would happen with the trunk when you release the hinge. This would be added on top of the force of the top pushing as it tips. This would result in the trunk continuing to go extra after the top disconnects and could well be a much larger contributor with a massive lean than even the tops' push.
Like your videos a lot! Leaving some bigger branches on the way up can reduce the effect when topping, of course this can be done in some situations and not all. I'm not an experienced arborist so maybe I'm wrong?
I've taken some very very big maple tops and felt nothing. I hope you read these comments often. I guess it was perhaps I was lucky enough to be in codominant and even tripple codominant sugar maple. I cut the tops with an 18" bar and it barely reached. I remember it looked like a giant head of broccoli falling lol. I love these videos keep it up please!!!!!!
Seems to be a need here for some kind of jig that could be set up at tree top and then operated remotely from the ground. Incredibly dangerous work cutting that high up, just tied in.I say this as a design engineer and someone that has used chainsaws for 30 years or so, but not at this level. All ground work here on a farm......I'll get working on the prototype ASAP. :)
I work my milling chainsaw from a distance with a pull cord. would be fun to see drone footage of your remote topping 😄. ‘Bagsy not me going back up 200’ to get the saw down!
Very different bore cut use than what I was thought and what I use. I would push the bar inside from the side, creating the holding wood of desired width and than, cutting from the outside the remaining safe corner. Have seen it done by one inspiring guy on UA-cam with a handsaw too (just the "safe corner" part) Guys name was Grufrock, too bad he dose not post anything anymore. I think he was also working on the Vancouver island. I worked there only for a short while in Victoria, too bad we've never meet. All the best Reg!
Thats Gord, hes over at Gibsons on the mainland. You're describing a release cut. Great for moderate leans, short bars or cutting from the ground. But this was a big heavy leaner, as evident by the sway. Problem with a release cut while climbing on a tree like the one in the video is that you release all that energy in an instant. The sway might be dangerously violent as a result. Also, thats a 32 inch bar in the vid, not so easy to position oneself to safely make the borecut.
Haven't seen that particular video yet, u know what u're doing and I agree with everything above. I definetly gonna try your method of bore cut for the leaners, cant wait to try it out. Happy to hear that Gord is alive, I was wandering what happend to this guy. No one else had such impact on my career, it's been a decade already of moving from place to place and without him I probably would never leave Europe and become who I'm now. And he even doesn't have a clue. I'm in debt to this guy. You're also doing great job, have been following you for years. You keep it professional , no show off. Thanks for answering!
I wonder if the continued backward motion after the top left was caused by stored energy from the heavy side. Like it was already pretensioned? Just a thought.
Like a spring pole release? Billy was wondering this too but reg says he ended up back in the same spot when the sway stopped so that seems like evidence it was push rather than release.
I think you were commenting particularly on the continuation of the backwards motion after the top left, and it being caused by the release of the forward lean. That makes sense to me.
When you have push back like that, the weight of the tree top, pushes the weight of the bottom stem as well. that puts weight into motion, which is kinetic energy. There is so much weight on the bottom stem. (from your cut to the ground.) That much kinetic energy isn't going to stop easy, so the tension of the tree on the side of the push back pulls against the tree, (if you understand how the fibers tension then you probably know.) Slowly pulling the tree back the otherway. Its just an unbelievable amount of kinetic energy so it takes a long way and a lot of tension to stop that travel. Hope this helps.
Thanks Reg. Would you advice the climber to start the back cut from the side, parallel to the hinge, bore in to empty the middle and leave a back strap??? To avoid barber chair, i mean. Thanks again
That’s the way I was taught as well. Keeps your sapwood for the extra control and never puts you in danger of eating a barberchair or being under a heavy limb. Worst thing that happens is the tension wood is compromised causing it to release early.
@@gschgvt2956 On a tree like this, where you are anticipating a huge amount of sway, a release cut would by nature release all that energy in an instant, instead of more gradually as with a conventional back cut. The sway might be dangerously violent as a result. On the ground is great, but not so high with a lean like this one. Thats also a 32in bar on that saw, not so easy to lean back far enough and safely make a borecut.
Really unique sort of video where aspects of this subject are explained and very well articulated. Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this. Reg, maybe I misunderstood one point.... but were you saying that if a section is going to barber chair there is no way to prevent it? .... or were you saying that it is impossible to know *after* the fact (i.e. when the piece is on the ground) whether preventative measures to prevent barber chair-ing had been necessary or had been just a superfluous "waste of time"? thanks.
@@Recoates Thank you, sir. Therefore, then, if one is being safety minded and cautious... one would tend to "always" go the extra steps necessary (e.g. as you described) to reduce for the likelihood of a barber-chair, right? thanks
in your clips Reg ol' mate it looked a wee bit like what we call spring back or sprung back,, rather than push back ,, ... similar to when there is to much pull on a top when the back cut goes in and she lets go.. the old growth sure smells good don't it... love the family Reg
Hey Bill. This is a good clip/example from a far, if a little less dramatic. No significant lean but watch Greame get pushed back on the stump: ua-cam.com/video/b3nTlYSDonM/v-deo.html
@@Recoates great examles of push back here Reg , I was referring to your situation , where yer first clip definitely had that effect , where as yer second clip she looked as it popped a bit leaving 4 to 5 inches of holding wood, looked like both affects were at play here
@@BuckinBillyRaySmith both big leaners mate, but the second I just went higher and the taper was slower from the bottom up the whole way. The thing is after the stem stopped swaying it actually settled right in the same spot as where it was pre topping. So I was able to just hop off straight back into the tree where I was tied in. Where's if it was sprung, itd have settled further away/back. You had to be there I suppose, and as Ive said many times in the past, the dynamic reactions when topping these old giants compared to regular second growth is night and day. Even smaller tops above 200 ft are pushing you back 12 feet or more.....be it a very slow and extended sway. Theres just so much flexibility in a stem when its that long
I've never cut anywhere near that high. Probably highest top ever 110' in new england US. That's rare. Usually 75' would be a decently tall topping height. I see that you've already replied to comments on why you wouldn't use a strap release bore cut. I trust that you know what you are talking about, and won't argue with you about it. If I'm topping a heavy leaner, I plunge cut from the side, set my hinge, and release the strap from the backside (better spot to be for the ride as you mentioned). Especially if it's a hardwood, because I'm afraid that I'll only get a short way through the back cut before the top starts going and, as you touched on, pulls the stem way forward, creating an uncomfortable situation, as well as a potentially inaccurate fall. I guess the stems we're working on out here are short enough that the pushback isn't as big of a concern as the pull forward. At least in my experience. Maybe that's what I'm not able to comprehend. Seems like a completely different game. Sounds like the people criticizing have never been higher than 100'. That's got to take a bit getting used to, and i've spent a fair bit of time topping trees. Badass stuff brother! I'll just go ahead and take your word for it!
Thanks for your informative video. Regarding bore cuts, you mentioned doing the bore cut from the front and possibly from the back to help prevent barber chairs. Would a bore cut from the side working back from the hinge be wrong?
Yes, makes sense. I never get anywhere near that high and I hope I never will; it was nice of you to get back to me. I dread getting rag dolled. Its okay at Canada's Wonderland but not while your working. Sorry for not reading further, a job came in.
Where could I find more of these cuts? How do you tell if a tree is gonna barber chair? How far in do you take the hinge on a big top? Could you take just one side out if you were trying to steer the tree? How do you brace yourself for the pushback? How big of sections do you recommend dropping? Why don't you wear gloves?
Alot of question Brad, most of which are already answered in the video or existing comments. Other than, I never liked the feel of gloves, and wear them very reluctantly
Great vid...I was taught that method and it’s good to see you’ve had success with it...have you ever bore cut and preset your hinge to release with a back strap of wood?
When you took that first top off and it went flying down into that dark abyss below I think my gnads sucked up inside of my rib cage for a few moments.
A tree top exerts a bending force on the remaining tree which reaches its maximum when the top is at 45 degrees so it is best to avoid the bending force and the top breaking free happening at the same time which would happen if your face cut is at 45 degrees for a straight stem
22:09. It’s probably at a sweet spot in the stem, where there is a wave created. It absolutely could be explained by physics. I think it would be interesting to explore. Still, it’s a harrowing joint. I topped a skinny spruce that had been searching for the sun in one direction only. I was probably only fifty feet, but when that top (fifteen foot)left, I was ten feet back and forth for a while. It took a good long time to calm down. Not equitable, but similar in nature.
Doing a bore cut is one way to help prevent a split/barber chair from happening but I personally like to wrap up the tree with a couple pieces of bull rope, one wrapped a couple times around above my flip lines and another wrapped a few times below my flip lines and neither of these extra pieces of bull rope are ever connected to my harness while making the cut, this is a sure way to absolutely know that the tree cannot split open on you, it may split but only a couple inches at most allowing you to finish making the back cut safely. Work Safe and Stay Alive!.
I loathed rigging out the tops of tall skinny Norfolk island pines. The rides you go on those are nothing less than vicious. Now if you got a good groundman, he can mitigate the whiplash by easing the line, somewhat.
I think maybe even more helpful than letting it run is maybe having someone else pulling the top over hard and fast, so as to counter the push back. Any thoughts from anyone?
@@Andrew-is1yd Yep, snap/jump cut would've worked. But unfortunately, we can't always drop tops due to what may be below. Now if you have a good groundman who knows when to finesse the line, there will be virtually no whiplash. But honestly, how many of those guys even exist.
I suppose the side bore with trigger on the back cut is ok for ground work but not for topping....or maybe you think it is complete rubbish? Just curious.
The side bore is a great method. But with a long bar is difficult to perform in a tree because you can't lean back far enough to start the cut with the tip of the bar. Not impossible, but still sketchy
A man who's been there..... Do ya ever feel like you do more tree work in your sleep than most guys will do in their life? Lol 🤟🤟🤟 blue Sky's and tall skinny trees.,...
I make the same cuts on marginal tops or felling cuts,especially here a lot of trees especially invasive species and palms are notorious for pulling to one side and hanging on so to speak
15:37. I use that type cut all the time, in tops, and especially if it’s a big limb on a pop cut(undercut then match the cut directly over the top, to drop a big limb flat). The top, cuz I don’t want it to tug one way or the other, and on the pop cut, so that that it doesn’t leave a string on one side, and end up pealing instead of popping flat down. I have never been more than one forty in a tree removal, so...I use it as an amateur compared to you.
Great video. Barberchairs scare me the most. That looked like a hell of a ride. I would have craped my pants. When we were kids we would clime a small tree and bend it over then all but one would jump off. We thought that was fun.
Here in the north fla and the edge of Georgia we have plenty of 125' spruce pines and one of the best for rec climbing because they are tall. I harvested pine cones in Montana for 6 years and silvaculturists wanted cones from the very top.... The genetics are better from that area, the apical meristem. Kinda like the top kola on a cannabis plant....mo better .... So they say... It makes for some interesting climbs because of the small dia. wood. Being above canopy takes away from the height perspective since you can't really see the floor from all of the overstory. We don't have very tall trees here, and we all know that when we show up to look at a tree the"big fucking tree" really isn't that big to a tree man, but sometimes it is. This was a great demo Reg, and it's a topic that only a few get to experience.....my dad would always holler down that it's like riding a bull.... at 76 he is still yelling it..... "Perspective of heights..... It's a damn difficult thing, so it's best we just go up there and see what's going on." Steve Allman
In terms of best practice.... I trained ND Arb 10yrs ago and we were taught to do the side cuts to prevent bbchair... Bore cut was also taught but they seemed to prefer and emphasised the ears method.(for similar reasons if I recall) Anyone have a more recent version of best practice for this? Bore cut seems more risky to attempt but if done correctly it seems to be a more foolproof option...Is that right?
I think after 10 years your best practice is probably to keep doing what you've learned and experienced through that period. And. always question the credentials and experience of anyone claiming to teach or know better.
@@Recoates Thanks Reg, that's a good angle I hadn't considered. I do worry that the ears method may have its limits though and Im just not sure what they are. In your experience/understanding is there a point/diameter at which the ears wont suffice? The reason I ask is because you never try to teach or claim to know better, but your obvious experience speaks for itself. If you have an opinion I would be grateful to hear it. Thanks again!
@@TriggaPleas On the 2 examples in the video I probably took a fifth from each side, so leaving 3/5 holding wood in the middle. Thats not advice, but I was confident it was the right amount, and evidently it worked.
@@Recoates Much appreciated Reg, I understand your apprehension towards "teaching" in the YT comment section...Thanks for sharing your ideas all the same.
I’m confused about the concern of being ripped off the spar due to insufficient slack in the adjacent tie in. Is he not lanyard in? He can only be pulled as far as the slack of the lanyard, no?
Yes, but then you're in the middle of a tug-of-war between the two trees. It would not be a good situation to be in, especially with the size trees we're looking at here. Better to give the tie-in slack and rely on your lanyard and spikes for the ride. The tie-in is still there for worst-case scenario.
As John said, also he was concerned the tree he was topping could actually fail during the topping and had clipped his lanyard in such a way that it would ripped off, swinging him harshly but alive to his main anchor if the tree failed
I was not nearly as high, but my tie in was much farther away, I failed to notice a bend in the tip of the top and snagged my line pretty good, and I was almost surprised how well my lanyard didn’t allow for much movement. Like I said, different situation. Sometimes if your out on the tip of a lead it’s nice to triangulate and keep it taut, but agreed it’s best practice to just leave it slack to avoid any unwanted pull.
Awesome, you're explanation and instruction in that short video taught me so much. Can't thank you enough for creating and posting it.
Years ago, before all these great vids were available, I had a mate who was up an oak removal. He did his face cut, was putting in his back cut and stopped cutting too soon, and didn't make any relief cuts on the side of the hinge. The spar split along the grain when he stopped cutting and he rode it to the ground and died.
Had he kept blasting through that hinge when the top started to go, and put in some relief cuts on the sides, he'd probably still be alive.
I was lucky, I learned all those hinge dynamics in a bucket truck long before I had to ever climb a tree and take a heavy top out. I saw it up close in a bucket how the spar can split below the hinge, and I learned to blast through more hinge than I needed to in order get the top tipping in brittle types of trees without splitting out. Even with relief cuts in the side, I still blast more hinge than I need to just to avoid these types of splits. Especially on oaks, where splitting along the grain is common.
Conifers seem less prone to this type of spar split than oaks, so I usually will stop cutting sooner on them, simply because they are much lighter and don't seem to let go along the grain like oaks.
I sure wish I could have taught my friend that trick before he made that last cut. Or that these types of videos were available to him before he got in way over his head.
Thanks for your contribution to arboriculture, sharing your knowledge of these dynamics of hinge wood, relief cuts and spar push back. I just wish these videos were around 20 years ago.
I've tried to impart the dynamics of push back of a top leaving a spar to all the new climbers I ever worked with, but it seems like you almost have to see it up close and ride it before you understand how hard a tipping top flexes the spar when the top tips on the spar and forces it back through that shift in center of gravity.
I learned the hard way about oak splitting along the grain when popping out tops, and the only way to avoid it was blasting through the hinge even though the top was going, just to reduce the chance of the spar splitting out below the hinge.
Whew!! Good thing you had the foresight to leave plenty of slack in your climbing line attached to the neighboring tree in that 20 foot swing clip. Another lesson learned for me. Thinking of myself in that position, my instinct would be to snug climbing line just for sense of security, but would have been catastrophic in that situation. Thanks for another of your top notch vids.
On the short barber chair explanation:
“ever reducing strip of uncut wood”
I like the eloquence of that 👊🏼😎
Well said Reg, well said! I like to use the V back cut as opposed to boring just depending on the application or vice versa some form of bore cut and it’s just a matter of dept perception and preference as you mentioned. As the climber one must always ask himself what do you feel comfortable with and always go with your training and experience which is why most guys are not cut out to do or fully understand what you are trying to help them appreciate about the force put on those large stems. Most of us who climb have never or have rarely worked heights above 130ft and although similar the size of a 45ft top at 50ft above ground vs being 150ft above ground level or more really just should help any one with eyes 👀 see what you’re getting at but again and even the fact that you have to have the appropriate slack in you main line to counter that sway since essentially both stems will sway violently at times from all that force of the top being cut off, some just won’t get it and it’s a job for brave men like yourself and many others to keep the forest and roads safe while putting food on the table taking care of you and yours. I wish you much success this year as always man and appreciate the lesson and journey into your mind as to how you go about your craft way up there 👆 in those trees. It’s amazing and only a hand full of people compared to the majority, whether up higher or lower can attest to the power topping these majestic trees which are a true wonder of creation and we experience that every climb with the variety of trees we face daily under all shorts of circumstances too. My hat goes off to all you fellow tree brethren. Thanks for sharing this!
Great information. Thanks for taking the time to explain these details! Man, that spar was moving after the top dropped. I'm just glad that your rope had enough slack to not pull you off the stem at the maximum point of sway.
I appreciate learning from your experience. Stay safe out there!
Great explanation on the reason to not be on the side of a tree. The wobbly stem will give you a ride after the top breaks loose. I've seen it multiple times in videos where people lose their footing after it wobbles.
I appreciate you taking time and explaining and sharing your knowledge. Much respect for you
Cheers Reg. Appreciate your time explaining this and detailed advice.
well explained. never thought of that method to prevent BBC before. It seems like the cut sides create posts that are not attached to the tree above the face, so those fibers are not able to split, and that is enough to prevent the trunk split and subsequent BBC before the hinge gets thin enough to trip. Seems like if there was enough force it would still split, but just like with a coos bay, the overall amount of fibers between the top and bottom have been reduced enough to keep the tree from splitting. I have to think about this some more. Thanks for the thorough explanation. I also didn't realize there was that much push back going on up there. We get some, but east coast trees just aren't tall and skinny enough to act like that.
I got some push back topping a skinny fir and had thoughtlessly positioned myself back to another fir 10’ behind me. Just felt it touch my tee shirt! All fine but close enough to make me think!
Maybe the Coos bay works the same way? I had never seen this description/technique either.
Don't trust this method as a sure way to prevent splitting, when in doubt always WRAP it up with bull rope both above and below your flip lines.
Thanks Reg. I've always tried to make cuts well away from any knots so the grain in the hinge wood is straight through, but what you say right at the end makes a lot of sense. Leaving a knotty section close to the base of the leaning top being removed must surely help to prevent a case of barber chair
Thank you, Reg, for taking the time to answer your critics. They may never be convinced but those of us who do "take your word for it" get extra insight into your thought process and gain just a little bit more from your experience. Stay safe my Brother.
Mostly the 'critics' are just disguising their fragile egos mate. But, theyre not fooling anyone
Well expressed. Thank you for your willingness to help all to better understand what a climber has to consider!
Could listen to reg all day long. Brilliant Chanel
There are a lot of "timber fallers" these days that only fall trees, no limbing, no bucking and climbing if for hook tenders and arborists... the dynamics of cutting that high up a tree makes things interesting to say the least, not to mention the your stuck here kid until its done part, making the cuts is hard enough being strapped in, but then you just can't get away in time... I've done enough to know its not something I wan't to do all day every day, and I'll do it as needed, but I prefer to cut em from the ground now, and will spend a few hours to figure out how to do so rather then climbing the bastards
Amen!
Yes that's how I role
Stand on the side of the hill and when the winds rips. Drop the hammer and watch that sucker sail..
@@northmanlogging2769 when the tree lifts off its instantly blown away and down the hill or slopes.. Absolutely nothing dangerous unless your down below the flight zone.. I do have work because of not getting killed in the worst weather conditions..Deadlines get meet. May as well let mother nature help you with your work.
@@willshaw3561 well, I guess we'll see your obituary soon then, cutting in the wind makes trees do strange things, wind is largely unpredictable, wind uproots trees you are not even looking at, wind can cause a chair in a non leaning tree, wind knocks widowmaker out of standing timber, you cut in the wind your a damn fool
I’m studying to be an arborist as of right now, I love your videos, really interesting learning material, i’m a sponge to your experience and knowlege. Cheers from Belgium
I love this channel and I love when you share your knowledge and experience Reg! You are one of the all time greats, right up there with Graeme McMahon of sherbrooke trees!
Exceptional explanation to add to people wanting to know how far you’re swinging back towards the end of the video all they need to do is see where you’re tied into and they can tell how far your swing back-and-forth spot on about 20 feet swing to and fro.
Thanks Reg in video when cutting top see you had a tie in another tree keeping a nuff slake in that second tie in very important hay 👍
Side cuts work, I did it also on big branches and at the ground on trees tensioned. In my opinion, with a small angle of the notch, the top breaks off quickly and the stem goes back 'cause you're taking off weight on it. Thanks for sharing
Great insights. Thanks for sharing your experience! I have watched your videos for the last ten years and learned a lot from them.
Love it, I put a statement/question on that vid and enjoyed listening to your reasoning here. Sometimes methods that usually makes sense for one priority are overridden by more important considerations. ie safety versus ‘the lay’ , thanks again.
It's nice to see something in depth regarding cuts when climbing. I just did my first tall white pine tree the other day. Cut the top at about 70 ft, top was 20 ft and man that thing took me for a ride! Slight lean but I put the top about 45° off the lean. Just made some small cuts in the side because I've seen other climbers do that, because of the peeling. I was wondering about what cuts would put the least amount of pressure on the stem. I need to cut the tree next to it and it is slightly compromised.... But this helps put a lot of this sort of stuff into perspective. Thanks Reg
Good informative video as always.One,what I can add is to remember when you cut the top of much lean tree( 30-40 degree).When top go,the trunk can turn to vertical position.
Very well explained. I know i saw the sway in your videos but I didn’t know the dynamics of it all. Awesome power to say the least.
Nothing like standing at the bar after a day up extreme swayers and realising that you're still rocking in your boots like you've been at sea. That said, "taking the top out at 200 feet" made me gasp fairish...!!! Thats a different world . As always Reg, very much repect.
A good alternative that is not only safer but guarantees that there will be no split is to wrap the trunk up with a couple wraps of a piece of bull rope above the face cut a few inches to a foot, this prevents any split from going wide open into a barber chair and keeps the tree trunk intact while finishing the back cut, sometimes a extra piece of rope is worth it's weight in gold especially if it's placement saves your life or serious injury but just make sure that it is not attached to your harness, it should be a 15 or 20 foot piece that is long enough to wrap 2 or 3 times around the trunk and be firmly tied.
Another good one mate, especially for one-offs and falling from the ground. Not so practical if you are climbing multiple trees in a forest. And completely redundant if the split instead runs down the stem you are tied to, and not up the top you are removing.
Daniel Murphy in one of his youtube vids tries an intensional barberchair and wraps a load of bull rope around below the cut to prevent splitting there, but it was surprisingly ineffective, stretch etc I would choose chain if I wanted to try prevent barberchair that way. Doubt I’d lug that up a tree though!
Thanks for taking the time to put this together after your work day. Even though I'll probably never tackle anything of this magnitude, I still feel having benefited from your work experience makes me a better climber.
Felling from the ground I was taught to leave a back strap for a number of reasons including avoiding a barber chair. Do you have any comments on using a back strap when topping one of these giants?
ditto the question about the backstrap in this scenario, please.
2 things Chris. Thats a 32 inch bar, so its difficult to lean back far enough in the lanyard to fit the whole saw and bar in between your body and the wood to make the bore cut. I have done it in the past, but its not easy to do safely. 2nd, on that particular stem you saw how much sway was created as the top tipped and broke off.....so with a release cut/back strap, youd essentially be releasing all the energy in an instant, instead of more gradually. Not sure thats a good idea. Maybe on different tree, but not that one.
Frankly, this is equal or better quality than a lot of talks I have sat through for arb CEU's. I'm really glad you made this video Reg. I saw some of the "initial" comments that you responded to on several of your topping videos about bore cutting and needing to make more open face cuts. Extremely ignorant. From my experience these sound exactly like what I hear from the level A/B/ worse yet, C Sawyers who have been through "all three" Game of Logging classes plus storm damage yet can't tie a bowline knot. Too many of them think their techniques are revolutionary and should be applied to any and all cuts in tree work, and are incredibly arrogant about it. A double bore and trigger setup with a very open face would not end well here, and would be very impractical to do in spikes/lanyard. There are surely other ways to accomplish a back release, but they approach every tree with same technique. They have a phobia toward pull ropes, completely ignorant of knots, terrified of heights, generally dangerous around vehicles and equipment and have a very mindless approach to doing every tree with wedges- like you said they are certain that every time they bore cut a tree they have prevented a "dangerous" barber chair they can be escaped from on the ground. Watching them cut spars is comical. There are a lot of them around trying to tell arborists how to do their job and getting into supervisory positions. Don't fall for their bs and do something you are not comfortable with. Egotistical, dangerous jackasses in my experience, trying to turn a safety crucial job into a competition.
Thanks Elliot. I dont fall for anyones bullshit, mate. Edit: this video (or any other) is not for their benefit
I meant that about falling for their bullshit as a general caution to tree workers starting out and learning different techniques. It was not directed at you.
@@sireliot2149 either way mate, I agree
Nice one Reg. The side cuts are exactly the technique I use too.
At 49yr old / 34yr in the game..!! Every day, is always a school day..(every day).....
Great explanation pal most of us will never get in to 200ft trees but it's all good to know the knowledge will still be of use in smaller trees I learned a lot watching your vids
most trees in south Yorkshire don't get that big though
That's the conclusion I came to in the bush. I make my cuts the same way.. Glad to see that someone much better skilled then I used this technique.. It only comes with hard lessons and learning curves
As always, great video Reg! Good tip on the side cuts, I completely agree about not wanting to bore cut up there! I usually just choke my climb line off, use a fast cutting saw, and brace myself for a rodeo ride. I have also used strapping in a decaying maple or cottonwood where the risk of barber chair starts to get really scary and climbing higher is not a better option. Stay safe bro!
Excellent explanation for newbies and the experienced. Sometimes experience masks fact and with it over confidence. Your video reminded me to allow for the “swingfactor” after the top goes on its’ merry way. I probably, unconsciously, make that allowance automatically but do I actually think about it when up close to the pearly gates? Probably not but will make the effort to assess carefully on the next few, similar to revising before an examination.
Thank you and hope this video will save a few lives.
Reg thanks for making us tree heathens look classy & educated !
Thanks a lot for the video Reg graduating in to bigger jobs self employed this is the sort of mentoring I need that I don’t have any access to anymore. 👍
Thanks for explaining, Reg. Great video 👍
12:45 I've never bored into the middle of a hinge attempting to prevent a barber chair. When I have seen that done I always assumed it was to get the center wood on a tree too large to reach with the bar length in use. I'm not a professional by any means - but most of the trees I end up cutting are leaning alders, and they are brittle and prone to barbercharing. I bore through the side - taking the middle out of my back cut initially, so the portion opposite the face cut remains in tension. I'll bore in, form my hinge to the thickness that seems appropriate based on lean/weight/rot/etc, then start cutting from the middle of the backcut away from the hinge. When there are 2-3 inches of wood in tension remaining, I'll take my saw out of the bore/backcut, and cut the tension wood from the outside in - almost like a normal backcut, but there is much less and usually it has enough tension that it tears itself loose before the cuts meet up.
Very interesting concept of narrowing the hinge to alter the tension distribution. Thanks for so many great videos.
Thanks Reg always wanted to know what you guys went through I'm a roofer and my jobs crazy enough I've always admired you guys takes a special man to do our kind of work but your credit you take the cake thanks for explaining it man it's a lot of s*** to it a lot of stuff to it wow thanks again
Thank you for sharing your time Reg
Great video Reg! Oh, you should probably get a lanyard on those pens, don't want to harm the groundmen below!
Thank you for this explanation! It’s very helpful hearing your point of view.
Another good video - will be encouraging my students to watch this.
About the stain on your trousers, I used to do production brush cutting and remember being so soaked by the rain, when I had to pee, I could just let it go... Don't bother pulling it out...A sense of warmth was welcome at that point...
Back to work!
We all have stains on our trousers!
Another thing that might be worth thinking about, if you have a huge lean on the head like that it will be pre-bending the trunk a bit like flexing a plastic spoon with your finger. Once you release your finger the spoon snaps back, a similar thing would happen with the trunk when you release the hinge.
This would be added on top of the force of the top pushing as it tips. This would result in the trunk continuing to go extra after the top disconnects and could well be a much larger contributor with a massive lean than even the tops' push.
Like your videos a lot! Leaving some bigger branches on the way up can reduce the effect when topping, of course this can be done in some situations and not all. I'm not an experienced arborist so maybe I'm wrong?
That’s a great point at the end, less chance of a barber chair between knotty sections of wood, I haven’t really thought of that.
I've taken some very very big maple tops and felt nothing. I hope you read these comments often. I guess it was perhaps I was lucky enough to be in codominant and even tripple codominant sugar maple. I cut the tops with an 18" bar and it barely reached. I remember it looked like a giant head of broccoli falling lol. I love these videos keep it up please!!!!!!
Seems to be a need here for some kind of jig that could be set up at tree top and then operated remotely from the ground. Incredibly dangerous work cutting that high up, just tied in.I say this as a design engineer and someone that has used chainsaws for 30 years or so, but not at this level. All ground work here on a farm......I'll get working on the prototype ASAP. :)
I work my milling chainsaw from a distance with a pull cord. would be fun to see drone footage of your remote topping 😄. ‘Bagsy not me going back up 200’ to get the saw down!
Do you ever bind a tree you’re afraid might barber-chair?
I’ve put a chain or heavy ratchet strap on suspect trees just for peace of mind.
I would and have mate, mainly on the ground though. See my reply to Martins post
Very different bore cut use than what I was thought and what I use. I would push the bar inside from the side, creating the holding wood of desired width and than, cutting from the outside the remaining safe corner. Have seen it done by one inspiring guy on UA-cam with a handsaw too (just the "safe corner" part) Guys name was Grufrock, too bad he dose not post anything anymore. I think he was also working on the Vancouver island. I worked there only for a short while in Victoria, too bad we've never meet. All the best Reg!
Thats Gord, hes over at Gibsons on the mainland. You're describing a release cut. Great for moderate leans, short bars or cutting from the ground. But this was a big heavy leaner, as evident by the sway. Problem with a release cut while climbing on a tree like the one in the video is that you release all that energy in an instant. The sway might be dangerously violent as a result. Also, thats a 32 inch bar in the vid, not so easy to position oneself to safely make the borecut.
Haven't seen that particular video yet, u know what u're doing and I agree with everything above. I definetly gonna try your method of bore cut for the leaners, cant wait to try it out. Happy to hear that Gord is alive, I was wandering what happend to this guy. No one else had such impact on my career, it's been a decade already of moving from place to place and without him I probably would never leave Europe and become who I'm now. And he even doesn't have a clue. I'm in debt to this guy. You're also doing great job, have been following you for years. You keep it professional , no show off. Thanks for answering!
Very good explanation. Right on Reg!
Moment is the force cool video as always 😁love the way u put it no bs
Very good, as always Reg!
I wonder if the continued backward motion after the top left was caused by stored energy from the heavy side. Like it was already pretensioned?
Just a thought.
Like a spring pole release? Billy was wondering this too but reg says he ended up back in the same spot when the sway stopped so that seems like evidence it was push rather than release.
Reading your comment again I’m not sure if my reply was on point? I’ll leave if there anyway...
I think you were commenting particularly on the continuation of the backwards motion after the top left, and it being caused by the release of the forward lean. That makes sense to me.
Neil D yes sir! I’m not sure if that’s an accurate assessment or not. Just speculation.
When you have push back like that, the weight of the tree top, pushes the weight of the bottom stem as well. that puts weight into motion, which is kinetic energy. There is so much weight on the bottom stem. (from your cut to the ground.) That much kinetic energy isn't going to stop easy, so the tension of the tree on the side of the push back pulls against the tree, (if you understand how the fibers tension then you probably know.) Slowly pulling the tree back the otherway. Its just an unbelievable amount of kinetic energy so it takes a long way and a lot of tension to stop that travel. Hope this helps.
Good video man, I would love to come out there one day and take a big top. Looks beautiful down there. 👊
Your cloud of breath actually tells the tale Haha. Didn't notice the first time I watched.
Thanks Reg. Would you advice the climber to start the back cut from the side, parallel to the hinge, bore in to empty the middle and leave a back strap??? To avoid barber chair, i mean.
Thanks again
That’s the way I was taught as well. Keeps your sapwood for the extra control and never puts you in danger of eating a barberchair or being under a heavy limb. Worst thing that happens is the tension wood is compromised causing it to release early.
@@gschgvt2956 thanks bro
I was curious why Reg didn't mention this method in this one of a kind video.... maybe he will address this in the comments.
@@gschgvt2956 On a tree like this, where you are anticipating a huge amount of sway, a release cut would by nature release all that energy in an instant, instead of more gradually as with a conventional back cut. The sway might be dangerously violent as a result. On the ground is great, but not so high with a lean like this one. Thats also a 32in bar on that saw, not so easy to lean back far enough and safely make a borecut.
Really unique sort of video where aspects of this subject are explained and very well articulated.
Thanks a lot for taking the time to do this.
Reg, maybe I misunderstood one point.... but were you saying that if a section is going to barber chair there is no way to prevent it? .... or were you saying that it is impossible to know *after* the fact (i.e. when the piece is on the ground) whether preventative measures to prevent barber chair-ing had been necessary or had been just a superfluous "waste of time"? thanks.
The latter, Robert
@@Recoates Thank you, sir. Therefore, then, if one is being safety minded and cautious... one would tend to "always" go the extra steps necessary (e.g. as you described) to reduce for the likelihood of a barber-chair, right? thanks
@@scatoutdebutter In this case Robert, it added about 30 seconds of extra cutting. So yeah I think its a worthwhile investment
@@Recoates Thanks a lot, Reg.
in your clips Reg ol' mate it looked a wee bit like what we call spring back or sprung back,, rather than push back ,, ... similar to when there is to much pull on a top when the back cut goes in and she lets go.. the old growth sure smells good don't it... love the family Reg
Hey Bill. This is a good clip/example from a far, if a little less dramatic. No significant lean but watch Greame get pushed back on the stump: ua-cam.com/video/b3nTlYSDonM/v-deo.html
Another mate, from Rico, same motion: ua-cam.com/video/hQ1uq5PODjM/v-deo.html
@@Recoates great examles of push back here Reg , I was referring to your situation , where yer first clip definitely had that effect , where as yer second clip she looked as it popped a bit leaving 4 to 5 inches of holding wood, looked like both affects were at play here
that old growth sure cuts nice don't it .
@@BuckinBillyRaySmith both big leaners mate, but the second I just went higher and the taper was slower from the bottom up the whole way. The thing is after the stem stopped swaying it actually settled right in the same spot as where it was pre topping. So I was able to just hop off straight back into the tree where I was tied in. Where's if it was sprung, itd have settled further away/back. You had to be there I suppose, and as Ive said many times in the past, the dynamic reactions when topping these old giants compared to regular second growth is night and day. Even smaller tops above 200 ft are pushing you back 12 feet or more.....be it a very slow and extended sway. Theres just so much flexibility in a stem when its that long
I've never cut anywhere near that high. Probably highest top ever 110' in new england US. That's rare. Usually 75' would be a decently tall topping height. I see that you've already replied to comments on why you wouldn't use a strap release bore cut. I trust that you know what you are talking about, and won't argue with you about it. If I'm topping a heavy leaner, I plunge cut from the side, set my hinge, and release the strap from the backside (better spot to be for the ride as you mentioned). Especially if it's a hardwood, because I'm afraid that I'll only get a short way through the back cut before the top starts going and, as you touched on, pulls the stem way forward, creating an uncomfortable situation, as well as a potentially inaccurate fall.
I guess the stems we're working on out here are short enough that the pushback isn't as big of a concern as the pull forward. At least in my experience. Maybe that's what I'm not able to comprehend. Seems like a completely different game. Sounds like the people criticizing have never been higher than 100'. That's got to take a bit getting used to, and i've spent a fair bit of time topping trees. Badass stuff brother! I'll just go ahead and take your word for it!
Not to mention that the tops that I've taken over 100' are 12 inches at best. Forget about 32. Holy smokes
thanks for the help. Maybe save me from trouble someday. I am new at tree climbing.
Thanks for your informative video. Regarding bore cuts, you mentioned doing the bore cut from the front and possibly from the back to help prevent barber chairs. Would a bore cut from the side working back from the hinge be wrong?
Hi Alan, see my answer to tree cultures comment. Its sort of along the same lines
Yes, makes sense. I never get anywhere near that high and I hope I never will; it was nice of you to get back to me. I dread getting rag dolled. Its okay at Canada's Wonderland but not while your working. Sorry for not reading further, a job came in.
Appreciate you Reg
Very nice example mate thanks for sharing
In short...hang on!! 😁
Thanks for the video.
Have to add, that was nicely explained.
great video!
Where could I find more of these cuts? How do you tell if a tree is gonna barber chair? How far in do you take the hinge on a big top? Could you take just one side out if you were trying to steer the tree? How do you brace yourself for the pushback? How big of sections do you recommend dropping? Why don't you wear gloves?
Alot of question Brad, most of which are already answered in the video or existing comments. Other than, I never liked the feel of gloves, and wear them very reluctantly
@@Recoates thank you. Im a beginner in arboriculture and would love to do what you do. What's the highest you've climbed?
@@bradleysmith4630 I dont know exactly Brad, maybe 240
@@Recoates thank you for your time today
Great vid...I was taught that method and it’s good to see you’ve had success with it...have you ever bore cut and preset your hinge to release with a back strap of wood?
See my answers to Treeculture and Chris Armstrong. Same questions basically
When you took that first top off and it went flying down into that dark abyss below I think my gnads sucked up inside of my rib cage for a few moments.
Great video. Very informative.
Big brass balls!
A tree top exerts a bending force on the remaining tree which reaches its maximum when the top is at 45 degrees so it is best to avoid the bending force and the top breaking free happening at the same time which would happen if your face cut is at 45 degrees for a straight stem
22:09. It’s probably at a sweet spot in the stem, where there is a wave created. It absolutely could be explained by physics. I think it would be interesting to explore. Still, it’s a harrowing joint. I topped a skinny spruce that had been searching for the sun in one direction only. I was probably only fifty feet, but when that top (fifteen foot)left, I was ten feet back and forth for a while. It took a good long time to calm down. Not equitable, but similar in nature.
Reg is the best
Love you man
Doing a bore cut is one way to help prevent a split/barber chair from happening but I personally like to wrap up the tree with a couple pieces of bull rope, one wrapped a couple times around above my flip lines and another wrapped a few times below my flip lines and neither of these extra pieces of bull rope are ever connected to my harness while making the cut, this is a sure way to absolutely know that the tree cannot split open on you, it may split but only a couple inches at most allowing you to finish making the back cut safely. Work Safe and Stay Alive!.
I loathed rigging out the tops of tall skinny Norfolk island pines. The rides you go on those are nothing less than vicious. Now if you got a good groundman, he can mitigate the whiplash by easing the line, somewhat.
I think maybe even more helpful than letting it run is maybe having someone else pulling the top over hard and fast, so as to counter the push back. Any thoughts from anyone?
@@Andrew-is1yd
Yep, snap/jump cut would've worked. But unfortunately, we can't always drop tops due to what may be below. Now if you have a good groundman who knows when to finesse the line, there will be virtually no whiplash. But honestly, how many of those guys even exist.
I suppose the side bore with trigger on the back cut is ok for ground work but not for topping....or maybe you think it is complete rubbish? Just curious.
The side bore is a great method. But with a long bar is difficult to perform in a tree because you can't lean back far enough to start the cut with the tip of the bar. Not impossible, but still sketchy
I love ur video's brother
Is this a modified "coos bay"?
You could call it that I suppose. Although im not sure a coos bay even has a facecut
Great video I am new to your channel 👍🏼
I'll try it out I got some small trees to take down...
A man who's been there..... Do ya ever feel like you do more tree work in your sleep than most guys will do in their life?
Lol 🤟🤟🤟 blue Sky's and tall skinny trees.,...
I try to dream about anything but treework, Wil.
@@Recoates Rodger that.
Good facts, niceley explaliened.
I make the same cuts on marginal tops or felling cuts,especially here a lot of trees especially invasive species and palms are notorious for pulling to one side and hanging on so to speak
15:37. I use that type cut all the time, in tops, and especially if it’s a big limb on a pop cut(undercut then match the cut directly over the top, to drop a big limb flat). The top, cuz I don’t want it to tug one way or the other, and on the pop cut, so that that it doesn’t leave a string on one side, and end up pealing instead of popping flat down. I have never been more than one forty in a tree removal, so...I use it as an amateur compared to you.
Great video. Barberchairs scare me the most. That looked like a hell of a ride. I would have craped my pants. When we were kids we would clime a small tree and bend it over then all but one would jump off. We thought that was fun.
you love your job! awesome
Does it happen when that sway starts the tree breaks?
Its happened to some unfortunate people
I never go higher than 30ft and never cut sections more than 2ft in length. That’s my thruppence ha’pennies worth.
32’ trees aplenty! 😄
Here in the north fla and the edge of Georgia we have plenty of 125' spruce pines and one of the best for rec climbing because they are tall. I harvested pine cones in Montana for 6 years and silvaculturists wanted cones from the very top.... The genetics are better from that area, the apical meristem. Kinda like the top kola on a cannabis plant....mo better .... So they say... It makes for some interesting climbs because of the small dia. wood. Being above canopy takes away from the height perspective since you can't really see the floor from all of the overstory. We don't have very tall trees here, and we all know that when we show up to look at a tree the"big fucking tree" really isn't that big to a tree man, but sometimes it is. This was a great demo Reg, and it's a topic that only a few get to experience.....my dad would always holler down that it's like riding a bull.... at 76 he is still yelling it.....
"Perspective of heights..... It's a damn difficult thing, so it's best we just go up there and see what's going on."
Steve Allman
I'm up in Moultrie
Very good stuff
In terms of best practice.... I trained ND Arb 10yrs ago and we were taught to do the side cuts to prevent bbchair... Bore cut was also taught but they seemed to prefer and emphasised the ears method.(for similar reasons if I recall) Anyone have a more recent version of best practice for this? Bore cut seems more risky to attempt but if done correctly it seems to be a more foolproof option...Is that right?
I think after 10 years your best practice is probably to keep doing what you've learned and experienced through that period. And. always question the credentials and experience of anyone claiming to teach or know better.
@@Recoates Thanks Reg, that's a good angle I hadn't considered. I do worry that the ears method may have its limits though and Im just not sure what they are. In your experience/understanding is there a point/diameter at which the ears wont suffice? The reason I ask is because you never try to teach or claim to know better, but your obvious experience speaks for itself. If you have an opinion I would be grateful to hear it. Thanks again!
@@TriggaPleas On the 2 examples in the video I probably took a fifth from each side, so leaving 3/5 holding wood in the middle. Thats not advice, but I was confident it was the right amount, and evidently it worked.
@@Recoates Much appreciated Reg, I understand your apprehension towards "teaching" in the YT comment section...Thanks for sharing your ideas all the same.
Thanks Mate
Thank you
Heavy Pucker Factor on that one!!
Good practices to put your bunnies ears in every top out I was taught
A man never quits learning until the day they put you in the ground .
I’m confused about the concern of being ripped off the spar due to insufficient slack in the adjacent tie in. Is he not lanyard in? He can only be pulled as far as the slack of the lanyard, no?
Yes, but then you're in the middle of a tug-of-war between the two trees. It would not be a good situation to be in, especially with the size trees we're looking at here. Better to give the tie-in slack and rely on your lanyard and spikes for the ride. The tie-in is still there for worst-case scenario.
As John said, also he was concerned the tree he was topping could actually fail during the topping and had clipped his lanyard in such a way that it would ripped off, swinging him harshly but alive to his main anchor if the tree failed
I was not nearly as high, but my tie in was much farther away, I failed to notice a bend in the tip of the top and snagged my line pretty good, and I was almost surprised how well my lanyard didn’t allow for much movement. Like I said, different situation. Sometimes if your out on the tip of a lead it’s nice to triangulate and keep it taut, but agreed it’s best practice to just leave it slack to avoid any unwanted pull.
The BC faller series covers this well but not climbing . Thanks Reg!