JUST THE TIPS - STROKE TIMING
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- Опубліковано 29 січ 2023
- Timing is talked about a lot but it's rarely explained. In this video, I try to take you through a tough topic and way that I think you can improve your timing.
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Bloody hell mate, this high elbow tip has transformed my potting. Thank you!
Cheers!
You're right about that. When I'm playing good my elbows High. I've been playing for over fifty years and read every book and seen every video. People do talk about the elbow butt not about keeping it high.thanks man!
This was a great explanation of what I've only recently figured out. Everyone talks about the pause but I hadn't heard it explained quite like this as to WHY the pause helps. I found that my shot making, my cue ball control, and my tendency to hit too hard has really improved once I finally got in the habit of pausing. The toughest part right now is that it isn't quite second nature so I still have to think about it and if I don't, that is when I find myself missing shots, "shooting too fast", and generally not doing well.
No one ever explain what you just explained to me with this video EVER! The tip of the elbow! Wow, thank you so much for sharing, and pleas keep uploading videos, i saw all your videos and beleave me, you explaing pool in a different way, in a better way i would say! THANK YOU!
As far as your pint about the elbow. It's a valid point. Plus I think a loose grip on the cue you are not only allowing gravity but the weight of the cue itself to move through the shot. You hear older players talk about letting the cue do the work but what most people don't understand that this means allowing the cue to pull through the stroke. Because allowing the cue to move forward is not only straight it's smooth
Always great tips!!! 👍
Thank you... things i didn't think about.... now the focus of attention.... still learning..... Vince
Good stuff. One thing I like emphasize on this topic is the muscles. Backstroke is triceps. Forward stroke is biceps. Good timing really helps make sure you are transitioning from one muscle group to another without losing the alignment of your cue tip. And following through is important because you are either accelerating or braking. If you start to hit the brakes before you contact the cueball, you’ve reintroduced the triceps at the worst possible time and are jeopardizing your cue tip alignment. Just another angle to discuss these same topics.
Simple subtle tips that truly can step up someone’s game. Thank you for the advice
I have thought about this and played with it. I think the high elbow also helps stabilize the shoulder and elbow from a small side to side sway.
I stumbled across this nicely done video and then looked over the desk near my Diamond table. Scribbled sheets of various stroke thoughts and on top is one highlighted with a yellow magic marker that I wrote about six months ago - "Keep your right elbow high". There's no question my accuracy level is much more consistent when I adhere to this concept. A huge thanks for reinforcing this with your excellent video!
Great advice about the high elbow. Another commenter mentioned Tor Lowry.... I just did his stroke drill for a few weeks, which I've done before, but this time really focused on what you said about timing and on keeping the elbow high. I'm glad I did. Now it feels like gravity is doing more of the work.
We shoot for fun and always try to improve. My GF started really pausing her stroke and smoothing the cue delivery to the ball and her game is now night and day different. I knew it was important, but the difference in her game is amazing!
Great advise. Timing and proper acceleration.
In golf, tennis and baseball I was alway taught you’re not hitting the ball, you’re stroking and following through correctly and the ball just happens to get in the way at max velocity.
Not all pros keep their elbow steady. I learned that it was important to keep the tip moving level through the stroke. This requires a drop of the elbow during the stroke. I don’t have any idea what SVB is doing but don’t try it at home.
I learned my cue motion when I was young and my brain flexible. I drop my elbow but that’s burned into my brain cells. Changing now is not an option. I’ve played golf and tennis at fairly high levels and get the concept that the more moving parts the greater the chance of errors, but I also learned not to fight my body. It wll accomplish the goal if you don’t consciously micromanage. Let it decide then only adjust such things as grip or contact face angle to compensate, not your physiology.
My club face is closed 30degrees when addressing the ball on the tee which looks strange. Why do I do that? Drive is a straight as an arrow and down range 280 yards. I’ve seldom seen a professional golfer with a textbook stroke. In fact, some of them are downright weird, but they work…for them.
In sports the most important thing to think about is what you want to happen. If you get caught up in thinking about the mechanics then pursue a life in philosophy or mathematics because you will never become an athlete.
Best 8 minutes I've invested in my game ever. Thank you!
Excellent video my man. Timing is the bane of my existence on days when my game is off. It will cause issues not only in my pocketing, but in my position play as well. This video helped me re-visualize the issues I can feel and will make me focus on solving. Love the conversation about the back elbow and getting your chin closer to the cue, it naturally positions your elbow better without having to consciously do it. I give this video an 11/10. :)
Jeanette Lee has a really good short video on stroke timing
Very good advice! 👍 You are right about the elbow. I will practice it. Thanks
Yup high elbow, great analysis
good stuff. I need to record my stroke and see what's up. Thanks
will be focusing on this my next practice, thanks!
Omg.. timing .I never understood before your instructions
Thanks 🙏
Please do eye pattern
Excellent channel. The best. Keep it up. Thanks for all your work
Great video and explanation. Thank you!
Great Video buddy !!! simple and effective. Cant wait to see more......
Wow, this has been a game changer for me, overnight! Thank you for the visuals!
Thank you Andrew for another great video
Thanks for the tips it really improved my timing when i play. :)
Dude you gotta post more often I love your short-ish but still in depth video tips.
I found moving back hand further back on cue gives higher elbow and creates better follow thru. I try to practice placing cue tip touching cue ball then sliding back hand to get 90 degrees, put rubber band on cue behind back hand, then when practicing I know if back hand touches rubber band I have good elbow position.
Great video but what I really want to see is some twist back banks! 😉
Fantastic videos have helped me a lot with my game. Would like to see more on the mental side of the game. Again thanks
Another great video, I have been working on lowering my stance and it started because I'm trying to improve following through the cue ball. I'm an older, bigger belly guy so getting my chin on the cue just isn't an option. I've found that getting lower with a higher elbow feels like a completely different stroke. It has diminished a lot of issues for me that I had spent over a year working on like grip, stroke align, follow through, and consistency. Your video gives me confidence that I'm on the right track.
Subbed. Great stuff bro. I think a lot of my inconsistency comes from this. When I play well I notice I automatically seem to have that pause and when im bad I tend to snatch it a bit. I'll try and consciously improve my timing when I'm playing tomorrow. Cheers !
All good stuff, thanks Andrew!
As explained awesome. Stay still ..and do this ..number one ..
I stumbled across the high elbow recently. I noticed if the cue ball was on a rail, shooting a long straight shot - I had much more success if I setup with the mental cue of higher elbow. I'm still trying to get that same mental cue as part of my routine for other shots, but so far so good! Great tip.
Suas dicas na sinuca e muito diferenciada e objetivas..obrigado!!
Awesome video with lots of great information Andrew! Absolutely love your take on the this subject! Keep up the great work bro!
👍😊 🎱
That means a lot coming from you.
Great video. This was extremely helpful. Liked and subscribed. 👊💪
Thank you for this . I have heard early on and just didn't put it together for draw shots
Love this channel, just wish more content was put out. Timing is really important and something I struggle with. Today I played well and everything felt super smooth. My draw was working really well, so I guess my timing was really good. Then, on other days my timing and everything seems so off. Very frustrating.
Keep the content comin'! Thank you!
Amazing tips, thank you!
Found your channel last night. This is a great video. I saw instant improvement in my stroke. Just subscribed to your channel.
Amazing!
Thanks, I finally understood what "timing" is thanks
I used to have my chin on the cue and therefore my elbow up pretty high. The problem I had with it is that without dropping my elbow I could only follow through a tiny bit.
Because that way the elbow is already bent pretty far when the tip is at the cueball. There's not much range of motion left after contact. And to get the most range of motion without dropping the elbow you need to muscle it to bend it as far as possible.
Now I got my chin up a bit higher, my elbow lower and I can follow through much easier.
6:03 excellent animation here, dude. Kudos. Also wonderful example
Im a back pause guy. Great video homie
Very good explanation, thanks
High elbow 100%. As I get lazy it lowers and accuracy diminishes.
10000000000%
Found this video at the right time really struggling with my cue stroke🤔 I've subscribed 😎
Help me a lot bro thanks for this great video
Interesting that you choose to pause at the cueball. As a snooker trained background player i pause at the end of my stroke instead after 2-3 feathers then pull back pause for 2 seconds then go through the ball. Always works well for me as an open bridgehand player.
Pool players do one, the other or both. I normally do both.
@JUST THE TIPS indeed. I have tried doing the timing that way as well. But I does mess with my rhythm at times as I'm not always used to it. So I end up sticking to what I've been coached on in the past.
What I gathered from watching this excellent video is that: Timing is the transfer of energy and movement from one set of muscles (back strock) to another set of muscles (forward strock) along with any whip like action at the point of contact between the cue tip and cue ball caused by the fingers tightening and/or wrist flexing to allow for more follow through without lifting the cue's tip off the bridge hand. Am I correct with the understanding?
Think of the stroke like a pendulum. When it’s up, it stops and heads back the other way. As it heads back the other way, it goes through the bottom at an increasing speed until it starts going up again. That’s good timing. If you allow your muscles to tense up, you’ll slow your stroke before the “bottom” of the pendulum, which is where you hit the ball.
@@DrawShotTV that's what I was trying to say 😃, you want the muscles involved in the back stroke to have time to relax, which allows gravity to start the pendulum motion before the muscles kick in on the forward stroke to accelerate through the cue ball, so the two sets of muscles aren't working against each other, along with the timing of the fingers and wrist or any other muscle movement that maybe involved such as dropping the elbow.
Watch Allison Fisher and other Players like buddy Hall and Mizerak.Great strokes and fundamentals.
I agree that "timing" isn't really the right word for it. Timing seems to imply two events coinciding, which didn't make sense to me. Anyway.. now I understand. Great explanation, thank you!
Good stuff man.
I'm not really sure if the object ball skid really has to do with timing, but of course when you hit a ball with bad timing that does change the action on the cueball, and tip placement accuracy and potentially cue angle- all things that change the outcome of the shot.
I have a big ass follow through for a few reasons. One of them is timing, but then there's also elbow drop and stroke slip, both of which extend the cue after contact. I think there IS a thing as too much follow through, but only in the context of forcing mechanics to hit the ball "harder". For instance, when breaking, I think many players add mechanics (as do I), and in doing so add a lot of follow through. What that does though is it changes where the peak velocity in the stroke actually is. Most strokes have a peak velocity towards the end of the stroke. While this helps smoothly accelerate and control the cueball, for the break shot and firm hits, it's very easy for extra mechanics to add speed to the END of the stroke. But then that also means if you keep the same stroke timing, you're likely hitting the cueball too early in the swing. So during firm shots and break shots, when adding mechanics (elbow drop/more follow through) you need to hit the cueball sooner in the swing that you're expecting.
I use a longer bridge for harder and break shots. It will definitely give you feedback when your timing is off or if you are "forcing" follow through
In practice sessions, I exaggerate the length of the bridge to dial in my timing , gradually shortening it to what feels good, as we amateurs know it can change from day to day, so even a five minute session before a game is crucial.
And work on a range of different shots, break speed, 4 rail, 3 rail, lag, half lag, ticky, etc...
Having a huge power break is useless if you can't hit it consistently. So this drill can also help you find the hardest you can hit a ball with control, and thus the max speed you should practice your breaking from, allowing you to take something off if it's not working at a particular table on a particular day.
Back elbow should be over cue stick. Forearm should be straight up and down just prior to contacting cue. If these two statements are true for a person, they will need to have their head/shoulders lower for a 'high elbow'. Or to phrase this differently, if elbow is over shot line and forearm is perpendicular (to table) at contact, then the elbow position is already determined by the two prior statements.
(For cross eye dominant people like me) I've heard people say try to get your back shoulder over the shot line. This is almost impossible unless you have narrow shoulders and turn them an awful lot (I think Jasmin ouschan does this). There are plenty of guy pros, that are cross eye dominant and shoot with back shoulder outside shot line (they are the ones that look like their back elbow is tucked inward. They are cross eye dominant, their shoulder is outside the shot line, their elbow is on the shot line which makes it appear their back elbow is tucked inward).
Elbow on shot line.
Forearm perpendicular to table at contact.
Dropping your elbow is fine.
Wow, cheers !!!
Me likey the pause pause concept. It’s helped me a lot -when I do it😉
That’s the thing, it’s hard to remember it all lol. But that’s why we practice and we practice with intention and structure. You want to build habits that become second nature.
Thank you
yes the higher elbow does work I am making more shots now
good explanation
Only players I can think of is Efren Reyes who doesn't pause before shooting. But if you watch what he's doing he has a long slow practice stroke and then into his shot. On a difficult shot he will pause in between his small practice strokes and this long practice stroke. I think this is to keep everything loose. In snooker Ronnie O'Sullivan has his Ronnie rock he does at the back of his stroke that is very different than anyone else. Not saying either of these two things are good for most people but are both worth experimenting with. I personally find a short backstroke and extremely loose grip works best for me. I also usually pause before shooting but if I'm struggling I'll use Efren's style of practice stroke and into the shot
Efren does a pause, the one more practice stroke, then shoots.
@@DrawShotTV I mentioned that but he only does the pause on hard shots. More often than not he didn't do the pause then practice stroke. But you're right on hard shots like I said earlier he did a pause then one practice stroke.
Great video and Erin Reyes has a high elbow
Thanks good info
Ohh im so trying too get follow through embedding in my head i some how cant seem too do it.. also i do notice when you follow through and hit perfectly straight with a good stroke the clacking of the balls makes almost a tin can sound .. idk if anyone has paid any attention too the sound balls make but i mean hearing is one of our senses.. not saying this matters about the sound but ive noticed this when i finally hit a really good shot which is rare the sound is different it doesn't just sound like 2 marbles clashing into each other like most my bad shots sound like ..
The sound is definitely noticeable when you hit the ball well.
I unfortunately de accelerate and glad my friend pointed it out
That pause at the back is what every snooker players do.
Great video! ive also added a pause and it improved my shot. Can you also do a video on stance? im a left eye dominant lefty (right handed by nature) and i recently recorded myself and found i have a square stance, more of a snooker stance but i've never played snooker a day in my life. Is this hindering my shot making ability? ive heard that its more stable with a square stance (like judd trump) but i feel it may be messing with my vision centre. Love to hear your thoughts.
Stance is so tricky because everyone is different. Size, eye dominance etc all are factors.
Hi Great binge-worthy content and I doubt you'll see this comment, much less respond, but I'd like to see a video demonstrating various pro players' strokes. Some players have a long, beautiful almost "wavy" or loopy, loose and relaxed stroke resembling a"figure 8" or see-saw motion like many Filipino players, including Efron and Bustamante. While others have a high and frozen elbow with a straight take-back and follow-through. Hope I'm describing this right. I love Efron and SVB's stroke. Thank you!
This is a great idea!
Nice stuff, amigo. How do you like the Avid w/Cynergy combo? And do you play with the extension on all the time ? Curious
It’s a great combo. And yes, the small extension all the time.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think bad timing also can cause the cue tip to double hit the cue ball, sometimes, if you're still accelerating after you hit the cue ball.
Andrew. I got a lot from the video. Must watch it again. At stroke delivery, eyes on object ball or q ball? Does it matter?
Great video!
Any chance someone could explain in dummy terms what technically/mechanically is meant by dropping the elbow 6:58
If you watch someone like Fedor Gorst shoot a draw shot, for example, you’ll see after he makes contact he follows forward so far that his elbow finishes almost below his cue. That is called an “elbow drop”. Maybe I’ll make a video about it…
@@DrawShotTV aaah cheers bud, now you mention it I think it's something I've always done not knowing some people didn't.
Thanks again 👍
@@DrawShotTV Fedor Gorst has an elbow drop on almost every shot, and many times quite pronounced. You are correct when you say a lot of European players have an elbow drop. I have never understood why an elbow drop is considered bad - it just depends on what works for someone. Jasmine Ouschan also has a very pronounced elbow drop on many shots.
What sbout the grip?
My hand holding the club turned inward when exerting force
Great job explaining the kinetic action with proper mechanics. My friend, I am worried about your BMI and your need for better cardio. Your breathing sounds very labored. For every lb of non muscle, non bone (fat) the body has to develop from 1-3 miles of capillaries This is very taxing on the heart and lungs. You are a smart man so what I am saying is going to be logical to you. I certainly am not trying to offend you, but rather, save your life and extend it. Best wishes!
I appreciate it. I exercise daily and I’ve lost 60lbs in 2023
Awesome video! I have a question off topic I'm looking to purchase the avid Era 6 pointer cue and I wanna throw a cynergy 11.8 on it but I don't know what joint diameter to purchase and I can't find any info. What cynergy shaft should I buy. I know it's 3/8 ×14 but not sure diameter. Thanks man!
I’m confused. Joint diameter? All you need is the pin size which is 3/8x14. The joint on a avid will line up perfectly with a Cynergy shaft.
And then I see they come in 20 mm
I don't understand the elbow comment. You said, " They put their head low to make their elbow high. " Did I understand that, right? I think I know what you mean. As long as your elbow is straight up and down and your cue close to level, it can't get any higher or lower. That is unless you tuck it in our push it out. There is no other plane of movement for your elbow. I thought they got down low to sight better, and that gives the elbow the appearance of being high relative to the head. Hhmmm...maybe we could test it out some how?
So a lot of people will say their chin is on their elbow so they can site the ball but honestly I don’t believe that’s it. Good players are aiming and aligning before getting down so once their chin hits their cue, that part is mostly done.
Getting low allows the elbow/arm to become an efficient lever. And the elbow being the fulcrum. It being high allows gravity to do the work during the stroke and therefore the stroke has less things that can go wrong.
When the elbow is low, gravity cannot do it’s thing nearly as well and you’ll need to muscle the stroke which leads to bad timing, tightening and ultimately less consistency.
The elbow position is so important and extremely overlooked.
I have the greatest trouble with a slow stroke. I was running a drill trying to draw the cue ball to the short rail but not have the object ball reach the same cushion. I can’t do it. The object always bounces to the far rail and bounces off the rail closest to me. Just can’t get slow enough.
I’d have to see it but it’s possible that it’s maybe not possible for anyone to do.
I can name you tonnes of champion players who doesn't pause.
Carlo Biado, Dennis Orcollo immediately comes to mind.
Both of those players pause at the cueball in the same way. They both take very tiny warm up strokes before pausing at the cueball, for an exaggerated amount of time i might add, then going through their final stroke.
My cue ball on some shots not even hard jumps a little after I hit the object ball… what’s that all about
Sounds like your cue isn’t level.
The draw stroke is not really explained for the beginners. Long ago t was told to me , I either had it or not. I had it but started thinking about it and it all changed.level cue, downward stroke , speed follow thru? Any description.
Draw stroke is 100% timing and getting through through the ball.
I having problems with my gripi can't get comfortable.
Too tight? Is it your wrist or grip?
Grip I hold it lose, I try 3 fingers, I let it rest in the palm of my hand, nothing seems to work.
This happens to me as well. Sometimes the grip feels ok and other times, nothing feels natural.
Also, trying to get the elbow high is so uncomfortable for me. Not sure if it’s the way I’m built or not enough flexibility, but it’s rough…
How about your grip
You should introduce yourself or put your name in the bio or something. I can’t find it!
Great tips, truly!
However I wouldn't say that EVERY top player pauses at the backstroke. Allot of pro Filipino players, for example, have very tight, fast strokes, with zero pause. That being said I would say that every single European player, qnd every snooker player for sure have very accentuated pauses.
Just an observation, I think the pause is beneficial to many, but it needs to be natural. Intentionally pausing may hinder your stroke until its second nature
I said almost all pause at the cueball. And some pause at the backstroke.
Big component is the stroke acting like a throw. When I have non-optimal timing, usually because I'm muscling the ball or decelerating. Typically the issue is caused by having an improper back stroke. Go too long, you'll decelerate, too short of a back stroke, you'll muscle the stroke
Slow back stroke....I'm talking like pull back as you think is "slow", and then go 4x as slow as you thought was "slow". It solves most stroke problems. You can eventually speed it up but there's nothing wrong with keeping it slow. I consistently make long cut shots because how slow I pull back - so much that people comment on it in matches (my positioning is another, sadder, story lol)
@D P I'm thinking 1 or even 1.5 seconds as a slow back stroke... so you're saying you can take up to 4+ seconds for a back stroke? Lol I'll try during my next practice session, but that seems wayyyy too long
@@ThiccEagle hmm, yeah to practice, like 4 seconds works. You'd be surprised how much arm waggle you figure out you have haha, which is good because it's strengthening those tiny stabilizer muscles. But realistically in a normal match maybe it's more like 2.5s-3s max.
forgot which instructor said it (he worked with Allison fisher and other top pros) but try timing your backstroke to the saying 'Ladies and gentleman' and you start the forward motion at ...man. really helps
I get it but I also don't get it lmao I like that
W Vid
Sweet glove and carbon shaft. I’m sure you’re an APA killer..and I do appreciate what you are trying to convey. But.. your stroke hand and arm are way to close to your body in relation to your back elbow. My guess is you used to have the Keith McCready chicken wing and are over compensating. According to your puppet analogy, your back arm should be hanging straight down and not touching your side. It is not. Lose the glove, the Mosconi Cup replica jersey, however many wackadoo synthetic shafts you have..spend 2k on a WOOD custom cue with a WOOD shaft. Oh yeah, it’s super clever that you have actually managed to weave some sexual innuendo and pool into your channel name. Man..that is awesome!
Why don’t you do all of us a favor and watch tor Lowry UA-cam video called slip stroke and jab stroke and tell us what the difference is between yours and tor slip stroke is. You guys make great videos but there is only a few that answer any questions. A teacher should answer his students questions. Thank you
You don’t have to watch my videos. Nobody is forcing you.
@@DrawShotTV what kind of answer is thaT? I am just telling you what other people are saying about your site. What kind of teacher would give a answer like that to a kid.
@@stevemarion9591 I receive a lot of positive feedback. From professional level players to beginners. If you don’t like my style, that’s ok. I’m not offended.
If there’s something you’d like to know, I’m happy to help.
Scammers be careful
I’m seeing a lot of scamming. People are using my logo trying to msg viewers :(
@@DrawShotTVI've just written my answer now and it was deleted immediately
@@sergiolabrador4316 I’m not sure. I’ve only deleted the scammers. You’re entered in the drawing. I appreciate you giving people the heads up about the scammers.
@@DrawShotTV it is a bit difficult to me explain this. I am from Spain and my English is not perfect, so I am on holiday. But I you want, this week I can explain all very well, all for private message of course. I have screen captures of the messages.
Great video and explanation. Thank you!