Thank you for these “10 More Thoughts” vids. The format suits you extremely well. Besides being refreshingly enjoyable they add value as “The whole is greater than the sum of its parts” (the combo original vid + 10 more thoughts). Really something to look forward to every week. 🙏
Thank you for acknowledging continuing genius of LMS and its family of players. A friend introduced me to Squeezebox Touch years ago. And I have not been able to let go, even if setup and plugins can be a bit abstruse for non-techie (retired lawyer here). It is worth emphasizing that, if you use digital out, you are bypassing internal DAC thus permitting you to use your fav external DAC. Final thought: Squeezebox online community quite enthusiastic and helpful group of people. (The internet as it ought to be?!) kudos to everyone instrumental in keeping that community so vibrant. P.S. there is an “enhanced” digital output plugin for the Touch, which is probably worth doing to address any minor deficits in the Touch’s digital output.
Much respect is owed to you pioneers. Having gone from playing vinyl to jumping straight to Roon I missed out on all your fun. And John honestly, the boredom VU meter remains at zero and hasn’t twitched in the last couple of years. Please give yourself a virtual pat on the back.
Love the whole Squeezebox family & the Classic, Touch & Transporter were all way ahead of the curve. Love that with plugins it can be kept relatively up to date. For example I have recently changed the 'now playing' screen to include bitrate, sample rate, file type (FLAC / MP3 etc) using one of the plugins. So many useful additions not dreamt of at release.... e.g. given your recent review of the EVO CD player which cleverly displays tracks and artwork, a function that has been available on the touch via any networked CD reader via the CDPlayer plug-in since 2008....!! While I agree the on-board DAC is great, an external DAC brings performance bang up to date with support for all files types and rates up to 24/192 and even DSD playback.
Thank you John for pointing towards using LMS ! Just installed on older PC (Windows 11) yesterday after watching your previous video. Squeezelite -X player, Material Skin with some plug inns (Chromecast, DSD and few others). Announcement from Roon yesterday about price increase triggered that interest in LMS. So far I am amazed how steady is running. I am using Jriver Media Centre 30, Audirvana 3.5, Audirvana Origin, Roon and before Audirvana Studio. All these players are playing files ok but for me streaming music to Chromecast Audio devices is important . Audirvana 2.0 now is doing Chromecast but isn't stable, disconecting etc.Roon is ok but sometimes have connection problems also. I am testing now LMS and Squeezelite-X player streaming to Chromecast different type of files and I am shocked how good is this FREE SOFTWARE !
I love these feedback videos, any more DIY builds in the future or lower-cost options in streaming. I wonder if Shiit will be building a budget streamer option.
Good question. From recent interviews it seems like they wanna stay away from screens on components but they could totally do a budget one and like much of their stuff, with high performance and signature style.
The Squeezebox Touch remote can be disassembled by *carefully* splitting it around the seam you will see on the sides of the unit. A thin plastic tool will help, it's not glued together but the hidden clips hold it very tightly. Then it is very easy to clean it and remove any corrosion from the battery.
I spent two months using and comparing Roon and Logitech Media Server (LMS), both installed on my NAS. I ended up choosing to stick with LMS for a couple of reasons. LMS is free, and LMS supports UPnP/DLNA, which is supported both on my main pre-amp and my receiver in another room. Roon does not support UPnP/DLNA, but instead uses its own protocol, which is not supported on my receiver. Roon, though, does have a nice user interface. For LMS I use the web interface, which I found I like better than the LMS client-side apps I tried - iPeng on my iPad, and Squeezer and Orange Squeeze on my Android phone.
Brought this squeezebox idea back to life a couple of years back with a raspberry Pi running PiCorePlayer. It sets up as an LMS, and using iPeng as the 'remote' to stre off qobuz and tidal - very nerdy way to set up but a great streamer project
Thanks again for the thought-provoking content. I’m seriously thinking of ditching Roon for a setup like this - I recently purchased a pair of LS60’s along with a NUC to do the whole Roon thing… But with Roon moving more to only working if your internet connection is up, this is looking even more appealing. Initially I used my Squeezebox (optical out) with Roon to drive the LS60’s (prior to the firmware update needed for Roon support). The downside was I had to hop into the speaker app first to turn them on / wake them up. FYI I managed to temporarily make the UV meter work by changing the settings via the Squeezebox remote - but it only worked until the Squeezebox was power cycled (clearly buggy code in there somewhere). I need to find the time to setup Slimserver and have a go / see if I can make as seamless as Roon for my setup. An aside, does anyone know how I can update the firmware on my Squeezebox these days - I have two, I don’t know what the last version was, but the early code on one of them appeared to give me grief vs the one that is more up to date. Prior to this exercise they have been sitting in a box for at least 10 years... very glad I kept them.
As an extra quirk ... the Squeezebox Controller (the remote with the screen) can also act as a player. It can play out via the headphone socket on it or through the internal speaker.
I have a iPhone Spotify and a pair of Bose headphones but watch every video mainly to see and hear what music you listen to . I found a load of new albums , bands and music to listen to , love your channels your totally amazing thank you .
Enjoyed it very much, John! Don't know if you read my comment, but if you really want to save your remote that had battery leakage, it is best to open the remote completely which is not too difficult with small screwdrivers. Then clean everything with alcohol dipped cotton swabs. Put your remote together and it is like brand new as long as the pcb was not eaten away by acid. Best regards.
For us early adapters it nice to see how this system has held up over the years. Back in 2006-2007 this system set the bar so high that it took another 5-6 years for others to catch up
Still have the blue protective film on my chrome foot also... never see it. Touch with iPeng and LMS and external DAC is core to my system. I've upgraded the firmware with the hack to get higher resolution bit streams. Works well. Logitech just didn't know how to keep a good thing going. Thanks to the community for keeping Squeezebox alive.
I agree about the Duet player not sounding as good through the analogue outputs. However two of my Duets are installed in the kitchen and bathroom with ceiling mounted speakers (you honestly can't tell the difference through those), that way the player can be hidden out of sight and controlled with the Duet controller or mobile app - useful in the kitchen as the original Classic I had in there had to be completely dismantled (along with the remote) and all the condensed grease removed! I've also set up piCorePlayer with JiveLite in the bathroom, at the moment this is solely as a touch screen control surface but I may move the audio source to this at some point. Another Duet player is running through an external DAC (an Audio Alchemy DAC-in-the-box, uses the classic TDA1541 chip). This sounds excellent. The bedroom system is a Classic running digitally into a Yamaha RX-V673 AV receiver. The living room (main system) has a Touch running via co-ax SPDIF digital into an Arcam AVR360 receiver. (I previously had a Classic but upgraded to a Touch so I could have album art; the Classic has been cascaded to another room). This drives a set of Monitor Audio Silver RX6 speakers (with matching centre and RX-FX surrounds in full 7.1 configuration). I did try different Squeezeboxen (Touch, Duet Receiver and Classic) and, as expected, there was no difference feeding the Arcam from the digital out. Even though some people have said the Duet Receiver has higher levels of jitter on the digital out than other players, I've not heard any difference when using it purely as a digital source with an external DAC. I've also tested this with the DAC-in-the-box, and an Arcam Black Box 50 (which I believe also uses the TDA1541 chip). My advice to people is to buy whatever Squeezebox hardware is available on eBay etc and run the digital output into your AV receiver. Alternatively use a Raspberry Pi with a PCM2704 board acting as a USB to SPDIF converter, and again run the SPDIF into your AV receiver or offboard DAC.
Bought a Squeezebox radio and a touch back in 2011 and both are in service still, 31Dec2023! 6 months ago the Touch’s Wi-Fi died ( many forums deal with this issue), but not to worry I use the LAN tethered to a Wi-Fi extender eliminating need for running any long Ethernet cable. It still is such an awesome streamer, media server, has a great built in DAC, good headphone output and above all an easy to use touch screen obviously. Will try some fox to revive the Wi-Fi if possible, but honestly not worried. If this serves me for another 5 years, that’s the best $150 I would have ever spent.
I think the good success of your video(s), not only because it(they) are quality and substance, but also because many haven't taken well to Roons announcement of price increases. On the other hand, I like a good few paid for lifetime Roon membership. As always, keep doing what you do. Thanks and take good care of yourself
I am on my second Duet and I think it and the remote are first rate...the ability to control volume with a WiFi-connected remote. The remote is fantastic--paired with an external DAC its superb.
Love my Squeezebox Touch! I run LMS on a n M1 Macbook, and the Touch uses the dac in my RME ADI-2. RME provides test software which allows sending a test tone through the computer (server) to the receiver (the Touch in my case), and to the RME ADI-2. Successful passage indicates that the system is bit perfect. Based on this, I can confirm that the Touch /LMS is, in fact, bit perfect through to its digital output.
Bought a SqueezeBox when it came out and never put it away. Use it with a better DAC now but it is only marginally better. Always kept my music on a Linux server with raid array which is now using SSDs. Even as tech keeps evolving, SqueezeBox has stayed relevant. Who knew? Obviously Logitech didn't.
The Squeezebox Touch/the Classic was my first venture into playback of digital stored music. I still have two, although in storage nowadays - my LMS still runs on my old NAS. I use it from time to time with iPeng/Squeezeplayer as an endpoint on an always on iPad (for displaying the album cover) and airplaying from there to my setup in general. Maybe I should unpack one of the physical boxes again - might be fun. Please keep on making your ‘10 more thoughts’ videos - they are great.
I usually read the description box before I play the video. It gives me an idea of what's covered in the video and ultimately if I should play it - or not. Sorry John, no disrespect intended.
Regarding your remote cleaning: Cotton swabs are also called Q-tips in Germany :-D Or just Wattestäbchen. But there's an alternative: fibreglass eraser pens. "Glasfaserradierer" in German. Those small pencils can clean electrical contacts from debris.
Still use Touch (two at home and one at cottage). Both with the duet remote as.. remote. Pi for servers. Have bought second hand units as replacements if units fail. Love the system!
This is great. For me personally, I'm happy streaming on Apple Music and for using my personal library, I just have various micro SD cards into my phones, DAPs, computer and CXN V2.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Duet remotes. Generally I don't use mine day to day because an old Galaxy Note 5 running Squeezer is so much easier to navigate. But occasionally when a Duet misbehaves and loses its network connection, the only way to get it back in line is to break out the remote, let it find the errant Duet and bring it back onto the network. BTW, I'd love to have a Transporter, but even used they are a bit out of my price range. As I said in the comments for the other video, I don't know why Logitech dumped the Squeezebox ecosystem. They regularly sell for good money on eBay, even when well used.
Since your video on Squeezebox I'm looking into it and was curiuous about the duet. I like the remote and wondered why it wouldn't be as good an option so thanks for clearing that up! Raspberry Pi is going from Moode to LMS then. A new power supply too I think. Thanks for all the knowledge!
Logitech server runs great on Synology NAS but you must run an older version of Perl and don’t let Synology auto-update Perl. Otherwise it breaks Logitech server. I used to have a Squeezebox Touch connected via USB to a Head-Fi headphone amp and it sounded great. I think the Touch (or maybe the HP amp?) was limited to 96KHz playback. I was an early adopter, with the original Slim Devices Squeezebox and it was quite the innovation as well as wide open to outside Linux developers. Nothing like it existed at the time. Thanks for showcasing the Touch and how to integrate it with more modern stuff!
Just on the q-tip part and it's British AKA are cotton buds ;-) and yeah... don't put them in your ears as it actually pushes the wax back down the ear canal
Watched the original, just because never spent a load on HiFi, had a Marantz one down from the KI signature CD and a Cyrus 3i, and then, just ended up, when they broke, with Chromecast Audios, linked to Home Minis, and 20 quid Nobsound amps scattered around the house and realised convenience was so much more important to me than sound quality, which my old ears really couldn't tell the difference between, and so fascinated by what, would then have been cheap audio tech, and I clearly missed. And follow on video equally fascinating. Nice one
Actually, Squeezelite-X not only works as a controller, but also to use the machine on which it is installed as a player. So I have mine on my work desktop so that I can play to my headphones while I'm working without using an external player.
I like to listen full albums as well. Hence I can add another option. On the iPhone and iPad there is a special player software for Apple Music targeted for listening to full albums. It is called Albums. It also allows random play per genre. Albums is one of the reasons for me to use Apple Music. It also allows grouping albums using tags. This I use a lot. I must admit that I do not use random play, but I checked, the option is there.
Hi John. Are you using the supplied power supply with the Touch? What’s your opinion on using a linear power supply? I’ve heard they can make a good improvement on sound quality
Ok, I get it now about the duet. My main complaint is about the remote that doesn't work any longer. But as I hooked it up to a Schiit DAC AND changed the power supply (much more power), that works just fine for me, no flashy screen, just a discreet black box. The internal dac was actually not good, a bit muddy and no dynamics.
When the Squeezebox came out it went onto my list of things to buy. The more I understood about digital media the less any of the options seemed to do the job. As with phones and "MP3" Players most were limited in what codec they could use. WAVE, MP3 and sometimes another. I converted my off air radio tapes to AAC being better than MP3 at a given bit rate. Most of my material is now WAVE and FLAC but have flv, mp3, ape, ogg, aac, m4a and ts. Usually I use VLC with my hi-fi connected to the tower computer. Recently I got two pairs of streaming speakers with internet radio and Google Assist (Beosound Emerge and Level). They can stream from the computer file system over wi-fi, so lossless, if the computer runs Windows Media Player (DNLA). Windows Media Player is limited in that it does not recognise many of the audio codecs. I have used uPnP to output all the sound from a PC to Devialet Phantom Gold speakers. This is lossless over Ethernet or wi-fi. What ever works for you there are plenty of options to look for.
Cheers for the mention, mate. And, yeah, that sounds like a bit of a disappointing sound considering where they'd been previously. I remembered the main issues I'd had with a DUET that I did get one at some point, and that was problems with it just connecting, really. So I immediately gave it to my parents for them to use! 👍🏆
If you're a fan of VU meters then you will like the Kolossos Oval VU meters that come packaged with Jivelite on piCorePlayer! Great on a 7 inch PI display. And now that you mentioned it, I will try that on my TV.
Well, after so many years, I think the sound quality that you can get from the LMS ecosystem continues to improve. In Squeezelite, you can configure a large buffer for both incoming stream and output to dac, and that makes a huge difference to the sound you get. To me, no other end points can beat this all other things being equal.
In what way did it made it sound better? I have the experience the the touch digi usb out has a slightly less soundstage than other things i have connected to my system. Don’t want to sound crazy.
Good video! To me, getting "old" quality gear like Squeezebox has a little extra appeal over brand new stuff. Because you have to work a bit harder to get it (track it down used, as opposed to just 1-click on Amazon), I tend to value it more even though it probably cost me less money. It gets a sort of "treasure" status because of both it's (build/audio) quality, but also from being increasingly unobtainable as well. And it's probably environmentally better as well to recycle already produced gear, at least as long as it is not some sort of class-A amp type of energy hog... So, please, do more of these videos if you have some other products like these! Maybe even simple devices like the original Chromecast Audio, set up as bit-perfect with quality DAC? Also, some sort of LMS - Roon server comparison would be of interest. What is similar, what is different, what extra do you get with Roon?
Hi Mr. Darko- I bought a pristine Transporter that was working well until the last owner removed his account from the server. He has advised me to press the Add button and then attach the power cord. This should let me enter my Squeezebox account to the unit. In the meanwhile, it is unfortunately a brick. I have tried this numerous times using the front button, and the remote without success. What am I missing here? Can you bail me out please? Thanks!
Still digging my Squeezebox boom as a bedside clock/alarm/player Will be very sad when the VFD finally dies. Also have the duet, but always used the digital outs.
I started the Roon feature request to play albums randomly years ago. It has been a very popular thread on the Roon blog. Yet the feature never materialized.
I have 2 SBT’s…bought them since they came out. Recently replaced w/Auralic AeriesG2.1 and haven’t looked back…lots to like about the Touch and the ecosystem but it was SUCH a PAIN IN THE ASS to constantly tweak. It didn’t “just work”. Had to fix shit all the time.
I think the issue with LMS and Roon is that if you have an logitech device it cannot be connected to LMS and vise versa, happy if you can confirm thats incorrect.
Electrical contact cleaner or 99% isopropyl alcohol do a decent job with soiled battery compartments. Also here in the UK at least you only seem to be able to get bamboo cotton buds now. Very nice they are too for electrical and electronic fiddling about. I remember the duet remote as being a pain in the butt because the rotary controller kept sticking.
I've changed many many remotes or other battery powered devices where the batteries leaked. Simple Vinegar will completely get the corrosion off and back to shiny metal in just a few seconds. Use cotton swabs if course.
My Duet was a dud for another reason. The remote kept dropping its connection to the main unit and could only recover after a hard reset of the pair. A big pain for sure. Was on the phone with Logitech support repeatedly. They even sent a replacement set, and it did the same thing. One support person admitted to me that this issue was a nightmare for them. Moved on to Sonos from there with never experiencing any connection drops. But I did like the Duet form factor.
Anyone know where I can just buy a configured pie server with LMS. I HAVE TWO logitech touch that I want to play my music mp3 library. I would like the pie to have A ssd drive and plug and play as easy as possible. Name your price.
I have 2 x Squeezebox 3's and LMS running on a QNAP NAS. I also have a duet (with no remote) that I configured remotely using a tool called Net-Udap. They still have great audio quality for their time, and from what you've said are not bad even now. I am looking at building a pi streamer soon with a HAT, but can't decide which one :)
I stopped using Daphile (which is a LMS-based Linux distro for PC) due to repeated mysterious server crashes that I could never get to the bottom of. I didn't realize that this was apparently an LMS problem (and not a Linux / hardware problem) until someone at ASR mentioned that he was experiencing the same mysterious crashes (in which the music simply stops playing for no reason at all, even if the interface display appears to continue to function) with LMS on a Pi. I now use Moode Audio on a Pi4 and I have yet to experience a crash of any kind - which is both a relief and improvement. I don't stream audio via any of the services as of yet, inasmuch I have a reasonably large former CD collection which was subsequently ripped to hard drive - so I can't vouch how this solution will work for me longer-term.
Not actually listening with my Touch(es) any more - but it does work with my Innuos server/streamer as a great Now Playing screen (for locally-stored music only, not Qobuz), and for basic navigation via an IR remote. Not sure if it would still work if I was using the Innuos in Roon mode(...?) but I still love the ability to instantly control playback using a simple IR remote. There is even a spare Touch in the cupboard, in case this one breaks!
I have a collection of Squeezeboxes, which have served me very well for over 15 years. Starting with an Original SlimDevices Classic, a Logitech Classic, a Duet, and a Boom... have the mobile apps. All great... until, one by one, they just failed. One SB Classic as a bad display (it is from 2005, so longer life than expected), the Duet remote enter button does not work, the Boom is just sticky (material vulcanizes over the year, and becomes a sticky mess) and the display does not work, and the last Squeezebox Classic to call it quits just keep resetting itself. I changed to a PlexPass, and installed PlexAmp on a Pi (with a HiFi Berry Digi+) - the random album feature is much better than LMS could provide - it suggests random next album based on the "Sonic Analysis" - a bit like the old Spicefly Sugarcube mix plugin (ling defunct music match plugin). I cannot recommend PlexAmp enough - as it also allows me to take my music outside.
Servers are officially dead, my 15 year old squeeze box is now a boat anchor. Won't connect to the servers so it won't even go to the menus. Can't get past wifi setup.
John, I love your reviews. I’m a nerdy audiophile using the AK Kann Max with Meze Advar IEM’s. I have replaced components in my home media room and also have car components wondering the best place to sell. McIntosh MX 121, Focal, Runco 1080p projector, inwall B&W speakers and classic Nakamichi 10 CD changer with head unit. Can you recommend how to go about selling these components? Thanks so much. Steve
I love this comments video @Darko Audio in case you want the feedback. You talked about that at the end of this video. As you usually don't answered in the comments sections, is nice to really know that you rear it ;) Thank you!
to clean with water is better or the smell will drive you crazy ,this if vinigar as a smell that you don´t like ,i knew girls when they were 12 they would drink a entire botle of vinigar ,if hiden ,lemons would serve they would eat them like if they were oranges
The confusion is. You can run Roon and LMS with no problem BUT you can not run Roon with LMS emulation enabled and LMS at the same time. If you know some magic to make this work, please share but when I do this I get disconnects and all manner of pain. Disable either LMS or the Roon emulation everything just works.
Would it be possible to change the default port? Also why would you want Roon to emulate LMS? I use the same music library of my own rips for both Roon and LMS and it seems to work no problem. Also accessable via samba to my RS150B btw.
Is there a reason why you've never covered airsonic/subsonic? Seems to me to be the most versatile especially for playing on the go via mobile. I'm thinking about going with Navidrome with an airsonic client while on the move.
I love this channel so much.
I like yours too, I've subscribed for many years.
@@ericjenkins2737 Thanks man!
Thank you for these “10 More Thoughts” vids. The format suits you extremely well. Besides being refreshingly enjoyable they add value as “The whole is greater than the sum of its parts” (the combo original vid + 10 more thoughts). Really something to look forward to every week. 🙏
Please keep making these videos. This is a really great series!
“Mama’s got a squeeze box Daddy doesn’t sleep at night…” 🎼
Thanks Pete!
Thank you for acknowledging continuing genius of LMS and its family of players. A friend introduced me to Squeezebox Touch years ago. And I have not been able to let go, even if setup and plugins can be a bit abstruse for non-techie (retired lawyer here). It is worth emphasizing that, if you use digital out, you are bypassing internal DAC thus permitting you to use your fav external DAC. Final thought: Squeezebox online community quite enthusiastic and helpful group of people. (The internet as it ought to be?!) kudos to everyone instrumental in keeping that community so vibrant. P.S. there is an “enhanced” digital output plugin for the Touch, which is probably worth doing to address any minor deficits in the Touch’s digital output.
...And we enjoy viewing them! Thank you Team Darko...
Much respect is owed to you pioneers. Having gone from playing vinyl to jumping straight to Roon I missed out on all your fun. And John honestly, the boredom VU meter remains at zero and hasn’t twitched in the last couple of years. Please give yourself a virtual pat on the back.
Love the whole Squeezebox family & the Classic, Touch & Transporter were all way ahead of the curve. Love that with plugins it can be kept relatively up to date. For example I have recently changed the 'now playing' screen to include bitrate, sample rate, file type (FLAC / MP3 etc) using one of the plugins.
So many useful additions not dreamt of at release.... e.g. given your recent review of the EVO CD player which cleverly displays tracks and artwork, a function that has been available on the touch via any networked CD reader via the CDPlayer plug-in since 2008....!!
While I agree the on-board DAC is great, an external DAC brings performance bang up to date with support for all files types and rates up to 24/192 and even DSD playback.
Thank you John for pointing towards using LMS ! Just installed on older PC (Windows 11) yesterday after watching your previous video. Squeezelite -X player, Material Skin with some plug inns (Chromecast, DSD and few others).
Announcement from Roon yesterday about price increase triggered that interest in LMS. So far I am amazed how steady is running. I am using Jriver Media Centre 30, Audirvana 3.5, Audirvana Origin, Roon and before Audirvana Studio. All these players are playing files ok but for me streaming music to Chromecast Audio devices is important . Audirvana 2.0 now is doing Chromecast but isn't stable, disconecting etc.Roon is ok but sometimes have connection problems also. I am testing now LMS and Squeezelite-X player streaming to Chromecast different type of files and I am shocked how good is this FREE SOFTWARE !
I love these feedback videos, any more DIY builds in the future or lower-cost options in streaming. I wonder if Shiit will be building a budget streamer option.
Good question. From recent interviews it seems like they wanna stay away from screens on components but they could totally do a budget one and like much of their stuff, with high performance and signature style.
The Squeezebox Touch remote can be disassembled by *carefully* splitting it around the seam you will see on the sides of the unit. A thin plastic tool will help, it's not glued together but the hidden clips hold it very tightly. Then it is very easy to clean it and remove any corrosion from the battery.
Thanks John for driving those SqueezeBox prices over the top. Hahaha. Love my OG SlimServers with Roon.
Loved seeing you remove the protective blue film, priceless! For chuckles I'll get my SB touch out, next to my Node. Great vid - thanks!
Thanks for the mention John! 🙏
I spent two months using and comparing Roon and Logitech Media Server (LMS), both installed on my NAS. I ended up choosing to stick with LMS for a couple of reasons. LMS is free, and LMS supports UPnP/DLNA, which is supported both on my main pre-amp and my receiver in another room. Roon does not support UPnP/DLNA, but instead uses its own protocol, which is not supported on my receiver. Roon, though, does have a nice user interface. For LMS I use the web interface, which I found I like better than the LMS client-side apps I tried - iPeng on my iPad, and Squeezer and Orange Squeeze on my Android phone.
Brought this squeezebox idea back to life a couple of years back with a raspberry Pi running PiCorePlayer. It sets up as an LMS, and using iPeng as the 'remote' to stre off qobuz and tidal - very nerdy way to set up but a great streamer project
I personally love these videos, keep it up
Thanks again for the thought-provoking content. I’m seriously thinking of ditching Roon for a setup like this - I recently purchased a pair of LS60’s along with a NUC to do the whole Roon thing… But with Roon moving more to only working if your internet connection is up, this is looking even more appealing. Initially I used my Squeezebox (optical out) with Roon to drive the LS60’s (prior to the firmware update needed for Roon support). The downside was I had to hop into the speaker app first to turn them on / wake them up.
FYI I managed to temporarily make the UV meter work by changing the settings via the Squeezebox remote - but it only worked until the Squeezebox was power cycled (clearly buggy code in there somewhere). I need to find the time to setup Slimserver and have a go / see if I can make as seamless as Roon for my setup.
An aside, does anyone know how I can update the firmware on my Squeezebox these days - I have two, I don’t know what the last version was, but the early code on one of them appeared to give me grief vs the one that is more up to date. Prior to this exercise they have been sitting in a box for at least 10 years... very glad I kept them.
I actually enjoy the "Dear John" clips as much as the regular reviews.
I used it at my restaurants when they first came out, it was amazing technology at the time and still works to this day.
As an extra quirk ... the Squeezebox Controller (the remote with the screen) can also act as a player. It can play out via the headphone socket on it or through the internal speaker.
I have a iPhone Spotify and a pair of Bose headphones but watch every video mainly to see and hear what music you listen to . I found a load of new albums , bands and music to listen to , love your channels your totally amazing thank you .
Q150s in the background looking good 😊 really complements the room
As a former user of a SBT I liked this video as well as your first video about the SBT. Keep up the good work!
Enjoyed it very much, John! Don't know if you read my comment, but if you really want to save your remote that had battery leakage, it is best to open the remote completely which is not too difficult with small screwdrivers. Then clean everything with alcohol dipped cotton swabs. Put your remote together and it is like brand new as long as the pcb was not eaten away by acid. Best regards.
For us early adapters it nice to see how this system has held up over the years. Back in 2006-2007 this system set the bar so high that it took another 5-6 years for others to catch up
KEEP ON MAKING THEM 💯
Still have the blue protective film on my chrome foot also... never see it. Touch with iPeng and LMS and external DAC is core to my system. I've upgraded the firmware with the hack to get higher resolution bit streams. Works well. Logitech just didn't know how to keep a good thing going. Thanks to the community for keeping Squeezebox alive.
I miss my Squeezebox Transporter (actually Slim Devices) and I agree they were ahead of their time and pioneers of good streaming device...
I agree about the Duet player not sounding as good through the analogue outputs. However two of my Duets are installed in the kitchen and bathroom with ceiling mounted speakers (you honestly can't tell the difference through those), that way the player can be hidden out of sight and controlled with the Duet controller or mobile app - useful in the kitchen as the original Classic I had in there had to be completely dismantled (along with the remote) and all the condensed grease removed! I've also set up piCorePlayer with JiveLite in the bathroom, at the moment this is solely as a touch screen control surface but I may move the audio source to this at some point.
Another Duet player is running through an external DAC (an Audio Alchemy DAC-in-the-box, uses the classic TDA1541 chip). This sounds excellent. The bedroom system is a Classic running digitally into a Yamaha RX-V673 AV receiver.
The living room (main system) has a Touch running via co-ax SPDIF digital into an Arcam AVR360 receiver. (I previously had a Classic but upgraded to a Touch so I could have album art; the Classic has been cascaded to another room). This drives a set of Monitor Audio Silver RX6 speakers (with matching centre and RX-FX surrounds in full 7.1 configuration).
I did try different Squeezeboxen (Touch, Duet Receiver and Classic) and, as expected, there was no difference feeding the Arcam from the digital out. Even though some people have said the Duet Receiver has higher levels of jitter on the digital out than other players, I've not heard any difference when using it purely as a digital source with an external DAC. I've also tested this with the DAC-in-the-box, and an Arcam Black Box 50 (which I believe also uses the TDA1541 chip).
My advice to people is to buy whatever Squeezebox hardware is available on eBay etc and run the digital output into your AV receiver. Alternatively use a Raspberry Pi with a PCM2704 board acting as a USB to SPDIF converter, and again run the SPDIF into your AV receiver or offboard DAC.
Bought a Squeezebox radio and a touch back in 2011 and both are in service still, 31Dec2023! 6 months ago the Touch’s Wi-Fi died ( many forums deal with this issue), but not to worry I use the LAN tethered to a Wi-Fi extender eliminating need for running any long Ethernet cable. It still is such an awesome streamer, media server, has a great built in DAC, good headphone output and above all an easy to use touch screen obviously. Will try some fox to revive the Wi-Fi if possible, but honestly not worried. If this serves me for another 5 years, that’s the best $150 I would have ever spent.
Great update love squeezebox touch adding an external power supply makes a dramatic improvement to sound
Which power supply is that?
:O - member of the still has blue on the stand and never knew club!
I think the good success of your video(s), not only because it(they) are quality and substance, but also because many haven't taken well to Roons announcement of price increases.
On the other hand, I like a good few paid for lifetime Roon membership.
As always, keep doing what you do. Thanks and take good care of yourself
I am on my second Duet and I think it and the remote are first rate...the ability to control volume with a WiFi-connected remote. The remote is fantastic--paired with an external DAC its superb.
Love my Squeezebox Touch! I run LMS on a n M1 Macbook, and the Touch uses the dac in my RME ADI-2. RME provides test software which allows sending a test tone through the computer (server) to the receiver (the Touch in my case), and to the RME ADI-2. Successful passage indicates that the system is bit perfect. Based on this, I can confirm that the Touch /LMS is, in fact, bit perfect through to its digital output.
🤗👍😎 JOHN, before my time 💚💚💚
Bought a SqueezeBox when it came out and never put it away. Use it with a better DAC now but it is only marginally better. Always kept my music on a Linux server with raid array which is now using SSDs. Even as tech keeps evolving, SqueezeBox has stayed relevant. Who knew? Obviously Logitech didn't.
It’s 2 PM and getting dark in Berlin. It’s absolutely horrific.
Ha. Come to Canada and in some places the Sun doesn’t rise or go above Zero.
The Squeezebox Touch/the Classic was my first venture into playback of digital stored music.
I still have two, although in storage nowadays - my LMS still runs on my old NAS.
I use it from time to time with iPeng/Squeezeplayer as an endpoint on an always on iPad (for displaying the album cover) and airplaying from there to my setup in general.
Maybe I should unpack one of the physical boxes again - might be fun.
Please keep on making your ‘10 more thoughts’ videos - they are great.
I usually read the description box before I play the video. It gives me an idea of what's covered in the video and ultimately if I should play it - or not.
Sorry John, no disrespect intended.
Regarding your remote cleaning: Cotton swabs are also called Q-tips in Germany :-D Or just Wattestäbchen. But there's an alternative: fibreglass eraser pens. "Glasfaserradierer" in German. Those small pencils can clean electrical contacts from debris.
In the US, the generic term for Qtips is cotton swabs.
Still use Touch (two at home and one at cottage). Both with the duet remote as.. remote. Pi for servers. Have bought second hand units as replacements if units fail. Love the system!
This is great. For me personally, I'm happy streaming on Apple Music and for using my personal library, I just have various micro SD cards into my phones, DAPs, computer and CXN V2.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Duet remotes. Generally I don't use mine day to day because an old Galaxy Note 5 running Squeezer is so much easier to navigate. But occasionally when a Duet misbehaves and loses its network connection, the only way to get it back in line is to break out the remote, let it find the errant Duet and bring it back onto the network. BTW, I'd love to have a Transporter, but even used they are a bit out of my price range. As I said in the comments for the other video, I don't know why Logitech dumped the Squeezebox ecosystem. They regularly sell for good money on eBay, even when well used.
Since your video on Squeezebox I'm looking into it and was curiuous about the duet. I like the remote and wondered why it wouldn't be as good an option so thanks for clearing that up!
Raspberry Pi is going from Moode to LMS then. A new power supply too I think.
Thanks for all the knowledge!
Can’t find touch in the States, only slim classic. How are those units … worth investment? I do own a recent Bluenode
@@jbrooks894 I have neither so can't comment unfortuantely. I'm going to use a RaspPi instead of a Squeezebox anyway
Logitech server runs great on Synology NAS but you must run an older version of Perl and don’t let Synology auto-update Perl. Otherwise it breaks Logitech server. I used to have a Squeezebox Touch connected via USB to a Head-Fi headphone amp and it sounded great. I think the Touch (or maybe the HP amp?) was limited to 96KHz playback. I was an early adopter, with the original Slim Devices Squeezebox and it was quite the innovation as well as wide open to outside Linux developers. Nothing like it existed at the time. Thanks for showcasing the Touch and how to integrate it with more modern stuff!
In order to get 192 khz PCM support on the Touch with an external DAC, you need to install the "enhanced digital output" plug-in.
Just on the q-tip part and it's British AKA are cotton buds ;-) and yeah... don't put them in your ears as it actually pushes the wax back down the ear canal
Watched the original, just because never spent a load on HiFi, had a Marantz one down from the KI signature CD and a Cyrus 3i, and then, just ended up, when they broke, with Chromecast Audios, linked to Home Minis, and 20 quid Nobsound amps scattered around the house and realised convenience was so much more important to me than sound quality, which my old ears really couldn't tell the difference between, and so fascinated by what, would then have been cheap audio tech, and I clearly missed. And follow on video equally fascinating. Nice one
Actually, Squeezelite-X not only works as a controller, but also to use the machine on which it is installed as a player. So I have mine on my work desktop so that I can play to my headphones while I'm working without using an external player.
I like to listen full albums as well. Hence I can add another option. On the iPhone and iPad there is a special player software for Apple Music targeted for listening to full albums. It is called Albums. It also allows random play per genre. Albums is one of the reasons for me to use Apple Music. It also allows grouping albums using tags. This I use a lot.
I must admit that I do not use random play, but I checked, the option is there.
My touch is 10 years old - and the blue packaging film still looks nice;-)
Hi John. Are you using the supplied power supply with the Touch? What’s your opinion on using a linear power supply? I’ve heard they can make a good improvement on sound quality
Super videos😉
Did you know... The Duet Remote has a built in speaker and can be used to stream music to?
Ok, I get it now about the duet. My main complaint is about the remote that doesn't work any longer. But as I hooked it up to a Schiit DAC AND changed the power supply (much more power), that works just fine for me, no flashy screen, just a discreet black box. The internal dac was actually not good, a bit muddy and no dynamics.
When the Squeezebox came out it went onto my list of things to buy. The more I understood about digital media the less any of the options seemed to do the job. As with phones and "MP3" Players most were limited in what codec they could use. WAVE, MP3 and sometimes another.
I converted my off air radio tapes to AAC being better than MP3 at a given bit rate. Most of my material is now WAVE and FLAC but have flv, mp3, ape, ogg, aac, m4a and ts. Usually I use VLC with my hi-fi connected to the tower computer.
Recently I got two pairs of streaming speakers with internet radio and Google Assist (Beosound Emerge and Level). They can stream from the computer file system over wi-fi, so lossless, if the computer runs Windows Media Player (DNLA). Windows Media Player is limited in that it does not recognise many of the audio codecs.
I have used uPnP to output all the sound from a PC to Devialet Phantom Gold speakers. This is lossless over Ethernet or wi-fi.
What ever works for you there are plenty of options to look for.
Cheers for the mention, mate.
And, yeah, that sounds like a bit of a disappointing sound considering where they'd been previously.
I remembered the main issues I'd had with a DUET that I did get one at some point, and that was problems with it just connecting, really. So I immediately gave it to my parents for them to use! 👍🏆
I remember wanting a squeezebox so badly 10 years ago
If you're a fan of VU meters then you will like the Kolossos Oval VU meters that come packaged with Jivelite on piCorePlayer! Great on a 7 inch PI display. And now that you mentioned it, I will try that on my TV.
I still have the blue film on my SB Touch!
Well, after so many years, I think the sound quality that you can get from the LMS ecosystem continues to improve. In Squeezelite, you can configure a large buffer for both incoming stream and output to dac, and that makes a huge difference to the sound you get. To me, no other end points can beat this all other things being equal.
In what way did it made it sound better? I have the experience the the touch digi usb out has a slightly less soundstage than other things i have connected to my system. Don’t want to sound crazy.
I dig that
The younger audience like convenience and are more willing to sacrifice quality for convenience
Good video! To me, getting "old" quality gear like Squeezebox has a little extra appeal over brand new stuff. Because you have to work a bit harder to get it (track it down used, as opposed to just 1-click on Amazon), I tend to value it more even though it probably cost me less money. It gets a sort of "treasure" status because of both it's (build/audio) quality, but also from being increasingly unobtainable as well. And it's probably environmentally better as well to recycle already produced gear, at least as long as it is not some sort of class-A amp type of energy hog...
So, please, do more of these videos if you have some other products like these! Maybe even simple devices like the original Chromecast Audio, set up as bit-perfect with quality DAC?
Also, some sort of LMS - Roon server comparison would be of interest. What is similar, what is different, what extra do you get with Roon?
Yeah it’s 5 degrees and 6” of snow on the ground..here is Estes Park Co.
Hi Mr. Darko- I bought a pristine Transporter that was working well until the last owner removed his account from the server. He has advised me to press the Add button and then attach the power cord. This should let me enter my Squeezebox account to the unit. In the meanwhile, it is unfortunately a brick.
I have tried this numerous times using the front button, and the remote without success. What am I missing here? Can you bail me out please? Thanks!
Still digging my Squeezebox boom as a bedside clock/alarm/player Will be very sad when the VFD finally dies.
Also have the duet, but always used the digital outs.
I started the Roon feature request to play albums randomly years ago. It has been a very popular thread on the Roon blog. Yet the feature never materialized.
Still use one in the kitchen system!
I have 2 SBT’s…bought them since they came out. Recently replaced w/Auralic AeriesG2.1 and haven’t looked back…lots to like about the Touch and the ecosystem but it was SUCH a PAIN IN THE ASS to constantly tweak. It didn’t “just work”. Had to fix shit all the time.
You're "sold out" on patreon -- can that be correct? If so, it's an interesting approach (I can't afford a higher tier fwiw)
I think the issue with LMS and Roon is that if you have an logitech device it cannot be connected to LMS and vise versa, happy if you can confirm thats incorrect.
Electrical contact cleaner or 99% isopropyl alcohol do a decent job with soiled battery compartments. Also here in the UK at least you only seem to be able to get bamboo cotton buds now. Very nice they are too for electrical and electronic fiddling about.
I remember the duet remote as being a pain in the butt because the rotary controller kept sticking.
I've changed many many remotes or other battery powered devices where the batteries leaked. Simple Vinegar will completely get the corrosion off and back to shiny metal in just a few seconds. Use cotton swabs if course.
My Duet was a dud for another reason. The remote kept dropping its connection to the main unit and could only recover after a hard reset of the pair. A big pain for sure. Was on the phone with Logitech support repeatedly. They even sent a replacement set, and it did the same thing. One support person admitted to me that this issue was a nightmare for them. Moved on to Sonos from there with never experiencing any connection drops. But I did like the Duet form factor.
Anyone know where I can just buy a configured pie server with LMS. I HAVE TWO logitech touch that I want to play my music mp3 library. I would like the pie to have A ssd drive and plug and play as easy as possible. Name your price.
I have 2 x Squeezebox 3's and LMS running on a QNAP NAS. I also have a duet (with no remote) that I configured remotely using a tool called Net-Udap. They still have great audio quality for their time, and from what you've said are not bad even now. I am looking at building a pi streamer soon with a HAT, but can't decide which one :)
I stopped using Daphile (which is a LMS-based Linux distro for PC) due to repeated mysterious server crashes that I could never get to the bottom of. I didn't realize that this was apparently an LMS problem (and not a Linux / hardware problem) until someone at ASR mentioned that he was experiencing the same mysterious crashes (in which the music simply stops playing for no reason at all, even if the interface display appears to continue to function) with LMS on a Pi. I now use Moode Audio on a Pi4 and I have yet to experience a crash of any kind - which is both a relief and improvement. I don't stream audio via any of the services as of yet, inasmuch I have a reasonably large former CD collection which was subsequently ripped to hard drive - so I can't vouch how this solution will work for me longer-term.
logitech as already released very interesting material ,this is another example if one doesn´t have money to invest in a tradicional system
My blue film is still on
Protect your resale value, you clever man.
Mine too! Who knew?!😂
Not actually listening with my Touch(es) any more - but it does work with my Innuos server/streamer as a great Now Playing screen (for locally-stored music only, not Qobuz), and for basic navigation via an IR remote. Not sure if it would still work if I was using the Innuos in Roon mode(...?) but I still love the ability to instantly control playback using a simple IR remote. There is even a spare Touch in the cupboard, in case this one breaks!
Darko, can you add the songs you are using in your videos, write them up in the description box, 🙏🏻
I was always missing that here. Thanks
You Can use Roons Random Album Extension for playing a random album ;-)
I think the plugin is called "Random Mix" and seems to be a 1st party plugin coming directly from Logitech. Unfortunately can't verify atm.
Hi. I was wondering if the TIDAL plygin for LMS is "Bit perfect"?.
I have a collection of Squeezeboxes, which have served me very well for over 15 years. Starting with an Original SlimDevices Classic, a Logitech Classic, a Duet, and a Boom... have the mobile apps. All great... until, one by one, they just failed. One SB Classic as a bad display (it is from 2005, so longer life than expected), the Duet remote enter button does not work, the Boom is just sticky (material vulcanizes over the year, and becomes a sticky mess) and the display does not work, and the last Squeezebox Classic to call it quits just keep resetting itself.
I changed to a PlexPass, and installed PlexAmp on a Pi (with a HiFi Berry Digi+) - the random album feature is much better than LMS could provide - it suggests random next album based on the "Sonic Analysis" - a bit like the old Spicefly Sugarcube mix plugin (ling defunct music match plugin).
I cannot recommend PlexAmp enough - as it also allows me to take my music outside.
Hi John, how does the digital out of the duet compare with that of the classic? Have to say I love the duet remote. Feels more expensive than it is!
I still have two touches for my hifi server setup and I run the server on my Qnap NAS. I still have a rPi running too, but I rarely use it.
There is a plugin for roon that will random whole albums as I understand
Servers are officially dead, my 15 year old squeeze box is now a boat anchor. Won't connect to the servers so it won't even go to the menus. Can't get past wifi setup.
I just learned that roon can interface with squeezebox devices. Might want to try it.
Never put anything in your ear smaller than your elbow, (except headphones and earplugs of course :-)
Very good advice. I find it really hard to get my elbow in there but it gets easier over time.
Guarantee the remote PCB tracks are eaten out, same thing happened to mine, one day Ill fix it.
John, I love your reviews. I’m a nerdy audiophile using the AK Kann Max with Meze Advar IEM’s. I have replaced components in my home media room and also have car components wondering the best place to sell. McIntosh MX 121, Focal, Runco 1080p projector, inwall B&W speakers and classic Nakamichi 10 CD changer with head unit. Can you recommend how to go about selling these components? Thanks so much. Steve
I love this comments video @Darko Audio in case you want the feedback. You talked about that at the end of this video.
As you usually don't answered in the comments sections, is nice to really know that you rear it ;)
Thank you!
to clean with water is better or the smell will drive you crazy ,this if vinigar as a smell that you don´t like ,i knew girls when they were 12 they would drink a entire botle of vinigar ,if hiden ,lemons would serve they would eat them like if they were oranges
The confusion is. You can run Roon and LMS with no problem BUT you can not run Roon with LMS emulation enabled and LMS at the same time. If you know some magic to make this work, please share but when I do this I get disconnects and all manner of pain.
Disable either LMS or the Roon emulation everything just works.
Would it be possible to change the default port? Also why would you want Roon to emulate LMS? I use the same music library of my own rips for both Roon and LMS and it seems to work no problem. Also accessable via samba to my RS150B btw.
Is there a reason why you've never covered airsonic/subsonic? Seems to me to be the most versatile especially for playing on the go via mobile. I'm thinking about going with Navidrome with an airsonic client while on the move.
It's 21 C in Texas ;-)
White Vinegar & Baking Soda