@@ori.g4mi yep, and if they wanna cry about the powercrush, if close range, spam lows, and if from full range, just run up block. But they cant seem to do those simple things
@@ori.g4mi the problem with that move is tekken 8 already doesn't allow you to keep much distance with your opponent, plus this move is literally hmoing and in online is pretty easy to get clipped moving, it's not like the move it's invencible but all clive mains use it more than a jab or a df1 and theres obviously a reason for that
Noctis db1+2 counter-play: sidestep left OR deep dash in -> block -> block punish -16 OR dash in and interrupt on reaction with fast mid OR even power-crush Clive f1+2 counter-play: ???
This kinda makes me think, is there a reason to step or duck Clive? Lows are not that scarry, meanwhile his tracking mids are godlike, but a lot of his stuff are unsafe, interruptable or leaves him at like -9 etc, that's probably why he got B2, and iWR2 because it's gives him uninterruptable 50/50s ob. Tbh I still think he is balanced if you look at his core gameplay even after the loads of complains, he won't win just spamming F1+2, lmao.
doesnt he literally have a hellsweep off his stance that splats and can potentially trigger stage mechanics like wall break and wall explosion i'd say thats a reason
@@-.DIO.- But you can interrupt his stance transitions on block, B2 and iWR2 being an exception obviously, without those two but especially without B2 his F1+2 would be kinda useless, but tbf not even his stance 50/50 is that scarry to me, it's just a Kazuya heat engager 50/50 situation, is it a Hellsweep or a mid, the only difference is that Clive gets basically no oki after low, and he can't launch you at all, but he can do it unlimited times in a round basically, which is definitely scarry, but not unbeatable. Idk.
As broken and unbalanced T7 was it makes me appreciate its hurtboxes and hitboxes. T8 is literally flooded with phantom range. It makes whiff punishing moves impossible. Jin's B2,1 moves is the greatest example
what we should be comparing is noctis FF1+2 to clive F1+2 FF1+2 from noctis was an ADVANCING, wall-splat, ballerina spin on hit, safe on block, CH LAUNCHER that lead to some of the best wall carry in the entire game with very high damage. it even crushed certain highs too and was i15 fast, if that move was on clive, he'd be S-tier at LEAST with clive, outside of F1+2 he has very bad tracking, and you can even step block the move at range 0 and force the 2nd hit to whiff, making it launch punishable. ORA was a funny move, a bit of a noob stomper, but noctis FF1+2 was an actual god button, noctis in general was a much better character than clive, even by T8 standards
Though I agree that f+1+2 is indeed fairly broken, I do think that the correct mindset is needed at times. It puts him at -8 at the end of the day. I would think just removing the tracking on this from one side enough of a nerf. That way, b+2 will see more light of day. B+2 is strong as well, but at the end of the day, despite the range, it's fairly slow, and it's still a high. It'd be nice to add a tracking trail on b+2 and make it officially his high tracking move, while nerfing his f+1+2. I feel like half of the reason he's even considered OP is gone the second f+1+2 no longer tracks. Make b+2 officially a homing move, but maybe reduce the plus on hit to maybe +16 so the only real follow-up is the PS+2 and it's follow-ups rather than giving a free heat engager.
I think they will remove the wallsplat and heat dash launcher as jnitial nerf. Its -9 so it literally end your turn OB, no counter play needed. If they remove tracking on this move, clive will go down the drain
They’ll most likely nerf Clive F1+2 making it punishable and not tracking hopefully. I wouldn’t mind if they kept it safe just as long as you can sidestep it.
When Clive first came out I fought my friend and was legit astonished you can't punish that move it feels like it should be like jins 1+2 where it's fast but hella punishable if thrown out randomly
I think shouldt compare T7 with T8 since its limited movement like korean backdash become slower and parry also not so effective in T8 Sidestep and mishima wavedash T7 was like fast walking but in T8 only few step and hard to command input , also its for critical moment in few second after success dodge attack with sidesteps
Clive F 1+2 is also a safe on block wall splat. With it being a heat engager, that leads to RIDICULOUS damage if you use the correct combo. I believe you've shown that off in a previous video.
While I'm not a fan of how much this move has, honestly if you just made it linear it would solve most of its issues Keep it strong on every other front, make it fully steppable on side step and there goes pretty much any complaint
Don't forget this guy also has a good poke which players will say not a scary low he has a d2 dragunov low which is d1 +2 on hit and a jin d2 as well which is db3 which +3 on hit and a ch launcher 🙄
Noctis ff1+2 was a cheaper move over his db1+2 imo, he locked down the opponent movement with that, safe, mid, homing, CH launcher with a lot of range,15f fast (16f due to ff the input) lol
You're not inputting that move in 16f outside of block/hit stun. And if you switch on command history in T8 you'll see how many of you can't actually press forward for 1f, let alone 1f again after neutral for 1f(making it 18f).
Noctis and Negan were awesome guest characters. They had obnoxious cheesy moves that were funny to use and rewarding to learn to play against properly. Clive is just lame. He's the lamest final fantasy protagonist and his moveset has nothing new or unique, just overtuned.
On paper, Clive's FF1+2 is OP, but that's nothing compared to other even more busted moves by other characters. On the other hand, Noctis DB1+2 is much stronger compared to other rosters in T7.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for this, I miss Noctis more.
Same 😢
2:47 correction. Some characters can sidestep block or sidewalk Clive f1+2 only to the left. They’ll always get hit if they try to step to the right
If the first hit whiffs yeah
@@BertDaBeethoven you can sidestep block and the second hit will whiff after you block the first.
Ora was slow and had counterplay clive does not, its a 0 risk win move
you can powercrush it or run your own mixups. He is -8 and right in front of you for gods sake. Tekken players are defeatist whiny babies
@@ori.g4mi yep, and if they wanna cry about the powercrush, if close range, spam lows, and if from full range, just run up block. But they cant seem to do those simple things
@@ori.g4mi-Carried clive main
@@ori.g4mi You can't defend a movement that should be punishable by saying it's safe.
@@ori.g4mi the problem with that move is tekken 8 already doesn't allow you to keep much distance with your opponent, plus this move is literally hmoing and in online is pretty easy to get clipped moving, it's not like the move it's invencible but all clive mains use it more than a jab or a df1 and theres obviously a reason for that
Noctis db1+2 counter-play:
sidestep left
OR deep dash in -> block -> block punish -16
OR dash in and interrupt on reaction with fast mid
OR even power-crush
Clive f1+2 counter-play: ???
literally just power crush😵💫
@@metaprism1Power crush a 16 frame move on reaction?! Lol
Ssl block, makes the second hit whiff.
Counterplay? Just block bruh instead of mindlessly pressing buttons then take your turn back it's like minus 8.
@@RandomPerson28337 At range I have a +0 high (f1+2) to put me at a range I want to be in. I think that's it, lmk if you know more.
Notctis's is much worse because it gives a hell of a pushback to the defense, which doesn't mean Clive's isn't disgusting too.
At least noctis did not have toe kick or the alternate 11F penis punch
This kinda makes me think, is there a reason to step or duck Clive? Lows are not that scarry, meanwhile his tracking mids are godlike, but a lot of his stuff are unsafe, interruptable or leaves him at like -9 etc, that's probably why he got B2, and iWR2 because it's gives him uninterruptable 50/50s ob. Tbh I still think he is balanced if you look at his core gameplay even after the loads of complains, he won't win just spamming F1+2, lmao.
Shhh you may upset the delusional haters that hate every new dlc character.
doesnt he literally have a hellsweep off his stance that splats and can potentially trigger stage mechanics like wall break and wall explosion
i'd say thats a reason
@@-.DIO.- But you can interrupt his stance transitions on block, B2 and iWR2 being an exception obviously, without those two but especially without B2 his F1+2 would be kinda useless, but tbf not even his stance 50/50 is that scarry to me, it's just a Kazuya heat engager 50/50 situation, is it a Hellsweep or a mid, the only difference is that Clive gets basically no oki after low, and he can't launch you at all, but he can do it unlimited times in a round basically, which is definitely scarry, but not unbeatable. Idk.
u cant talk like this in the tekken community man, u should only complain about everything else but your character, theyre not gonna like this
@@hatto Maybe I will make some redditors really mad and they will make a post about me 😎 it's a huge w for me
Plot twist : ORAAAaA
As broken and unbalanced T7 was it makes me appreciate its hurtboxes and hitboxes. T8 is literally flooded with phantom range. It makes whiff punishing moves impossible. Jin's B2,1 moves is the greatest example
what we should be comparing is noctis FF1+2 to clive F1+2
FF1+2 from noctis was an ADVANCING, wall-splat, ballerina spin on hit, safe on block, CH LAUNCHER that lead to some of the best wall carry in the entire game with very high damage. it even crushed certain highs too and was i15 fast, if that move was on clive, he'd be S-tier
at LEAST with clive, outside of F1+2 he has very bad tracking, and you can even step block the move at range 0 and force the 2nd hit to whiff, making it launch punishable.
ORA was a funny move, a bit of a noob stomper, but noctis FF1+2 was an actual god button, noctis in general was a much better character than clive, even by T8 standards
Jinpachi: I have the best DF1+2 in tekken
Clive: Hold my F1+2 1+2
Though I agree that f+1+2 is indeed fairly broken, I do think that the correct mindset is needed at times. It puts him at -8 at the end of the day. I would think just removing the tracking on this from one side enough of a nerf. That way, b+2 will see more light of day. B+2 is strong as well, but at the end of the day, despite the range, it's fairly slow, and it's still a high. It'd be nice to add a tracking trail on b+2 and make it officially his high tracking move, while nerfing his f+1+2. I feel like half of the reason he's even considered OP is gone the second f+1+2 no longer tracks. Make b+2 officially a homing move, but maybe reduce the plus on hit to maybe +16 so the only real follow-up is the PS+2 and it's follow-ups rather than giving a free heat engager.
The very fact that clive requires heat to convert his move into combos shows how busted the ora was in t7. That's y i miss noctis😢
Noctis is cooler is all I will say and I miss him.
I think they will remove the wallsplat and heat dash launcher as jnitial nerf. Its -9 so it literally end your turn OB, no counter play needed. If they remove tracking on this move, clive will go down the drain
They’ll most likely nerf Clive F1+2 making it punishable and not tracking hopefully. I wouldn’t mind if they kept it safe just as long as you can sidestep it.
When Clive first came out I fought my friend and was legit astonished you can't punish that move it feels like it should be like jins 1+2 where it's fast but hella punishable if thrown out randomly
Idc if its safe either as long as its super linear, and even then it would still be a good move
@@songoku6067 that can work too
@@songoku6067this i can agree with. The move does look linear so makes sense lol.
Great thinking dude, it's now true.
Why not blue spark in Clive combo? Does the combo drop after?
I think I've made my decision, guys.
You can sidestep clives second hit, bu it is pretty difficult
I think shouldt compare T7 with T8 since its limited movement like korean backdash become slower and parry also not so effective in T8
Sidestep and mishima wavedash T7 was like fast walking but in T8 only few step and hard to command input , also its for critical moment in few second after success dodge attack with sidesteps
I want whatever you were smoking when you typed this😂
Clive F 1+2 is also a safe on block wall splat. With it being a heat engager, that leads to RIDICULOUS damage if you use the correct combo. I believe you've shown that off in a previous video.
Clive moves feel like Negan more than Noctis
While I'm not a fan of how much this move has, honestly if you just made it linear it would solve most of its issues
Keep it strong on every other front, make it fully steppable on side step and there goes pretty much any complaint
Oraaa vs Ughaa
There is no good reason for Clive to have a long-ranged safe homing heat dash launcher
He has a sword
Noctis DB 1+2 can be launch punished with Noctis Df2.
back when Ora was homing, that was HORRIBLE
That Noctis has been nerf. Clive Will get nerf anytime soon
Don't forget this guy also has a good poke which players will say not a scary low he has a d2 dragunov low which is d1 +2 on hit and a jin d2 as well which is db3 which +3 on hit and a ch launcher 🙄
Noctis ff1+2 was a cheaper move over his db1+2 imo, he locked down the opponent movement with that, safe, mid, homing, CH launcher with a lot of range,15f fast (16f due to ff the input) lol
Clive 1+2 is literally his ff1+2 lmao, nearly the same functionality
@@Alsry1 kinda, thats why i presented his ff1+2 as a better contender lol
FF1+2 was kind of a perfect move.
You're not inputting that move in 16f outside of block/hit stun.
And if you switch on command history in T8 you'll see how many of you can't actually press forward for 1f, let alone 1f again after neutral for 1f(making it 18f).
None. They're both horrible. Change character. now.
That doesn't answer the question...
Noctis and Negan were awesome guest characters. They had obnoxious cheesy moves that were funny to use and rewarding to learn to play against properly. Clive is just lame. He's the lamest final fantasy protagonist and his moveset has nothing new or unique, just overtuned.
Beating both brings a lot of pleasure to me. High tier outsiders and their fans are my favorite victims. Nothing like destroying a new hypejob.
Clive's f1+2 almost homing attack. so op
I don't even know how they would balance Clive's f1+2. Maybe make it track less? Make it -12? Make it a non-launching heat dash?
Wish we got akira from virtual fighter instead
Lidia is our Akira at home, unfortunately
Id say clives is stronger since its way safer and tcracker, can be plus with heat dash, hard comparison cuz theyre different archetypes of moves
On paper, Clive's FF1+2 is OP, but that's nothing compared to other even more busted moves by other characters. On the other hand, Noctis DB1+2 is much stronger compared to other rosters in T7.
I dropped Tekken since Clive came in for a reason ...
The Ora audio cue makes it soooooo slow. If you get hit, just uninstall. Clive's better.