The Rock Hall vs Paul McCartney - If Guitars Could Speak... #34
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- Опубліковано 12 січ 2023
- #rocknrollhalloffame #paulmccartney #jannwenner #beatles
What IS the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame? What makes IT THE last word in which musical acts actually get in to it, and which are kicked to the curb? …. Since 1986, we’ve mostly accepted the Cleveland institution in celebrating the best of what rock music has to offer…. But who gave it that authority? And why has the Hall seemed to attract more controversy than acclaim over the past few years?…. Today we will look at the checkered history of the creation and rise of the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame, next!
Thank you for including Steve Miller's statement about that hall of shame.
Very interesting and, no doubt, true. Special thanks to you for the shout out to Mick Ronson! Agreed 👍.
Well done, Jason!
At 68, I've never thought much of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and even less of Jann Wenner, who didn't like a biography he commissioned of himself, and went on to write his own story. Screw Rolling Stone!
Fitting words about Jeff Beck in your intro.
I agree with your comments 100%.
Very unimpressed with the RR Hall of Fame. So many good people are not in it. For example: Ronnie James Dio is not in it, but Dolly Parton is. (I love Dolly) But maybe the meaning of Rock and Roll has changed, and I missed it.
They should just call it “The Music Hall of Fame”
They basically tried to become everything for all genres. And I get that they need to be inclusive, so I don’t really mind having acts from all genres be inducted. But the problem is that there doesn’t seem to be any hard and fast criteria for inducting them. When you talk about baseball, you can look at numbers of championships, batting average, ERA, etc… but it’s much more subjective with the R n R HOF which will of course invite controversy.
@@TheGuitarHistorian I agree but if they Want to call themselves The World Music Hall of Fame or The Actual Grammy Hall of Fame or even the Hip Hop Hall of Fame Ok. But it's Not Called that. It's The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They're should Be More Fan Voting For the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame!!! And Should be More Actual Rock Based Stuff.
Well put. Case closed.
So many glaring omissions in the HoF, this would be a long list. It feels like if Wenner's completely taken out of the equation. Hell, if the induction committee was completely overhauled, at least half of that list would've been inducted within a few years.
Everything I've ever read or heard about Jann Wenner leads me to believe he is 15 percent a positive force in music (gotta give him some credit), but the rest divided between tooting his own horn and inexplicable pettiness.
He's at least 60 percent dick.
An excellent video post. As a Macca fan it has been hard knowing about these facts you have shared with others. And RS agenda worked and damaged McCartney significantly. Wenner also had thye RS head critic rewrite his review of Macca's first solo album. That's true. It was given a fairly decent review and Wenner made the critic rewrite it to be highly critical. More about Wenner and RS...
From someone who likes to waffle. I am still seething with Rolling Stone. Paul 26 John 12 is a cavern of a gap when we get into the 30's below. So here goes...
They, especially Rolling Stone always place John way above Paul whatever the discussion. The truth is people who want to be perceived as being hip and cool know they are better off to identify with John as their man. Sadly when we lost John these same people made him into a martyr. Guitar Historian has shared this fact on this excellent posting.
However there is hope in that people who are either musically aware and or also honest with themselves are now acknowledging McCartney's genius. John had a very distinctive vocal and when for example he blasted out Twist and Shout it was raw energy pouring out. Awesome stuff. However McCartney has been playing music for the most part of his 80 years and no-one can deny that when it comes to versatility he is incomparable. In fact many would place him at number one because this is a guy who can melt your heart with Yesterday, Eleanor Rigby, Warm and Beautiful and Hear Today and still belt out a rocker like Helter Skelter, I'm Down, oh! Darling, Hi Hi Hi, Save Us, the list could go on for pages. He too can croon, use falsetto, sing blues and soul i.e. Souvenir,...he can do it all. I doubt any other artist could have every genre of singing in their can do list. I have even heard Paul scat!
For Paul he has always had to sit back and watch his genius be overlooked. He has suffered in the eyes of the trend setters due much to his perceived normality - why being normal equates to less talent I fail to see! Or commercial success must mean you're selling out. Usually this is utter crap. Yoko, whether you love or loathe her did everything in her power to promote John as a Saint and until recent years always made digs at Paul's songs etc...
Yes Macca has written some very ordinary material (Rudolph the Red Nose Reggae!) but so to has every single rock. pop artist in history. When, however, one looks at the totality of his musical catalogue the vast majority is superb to genius standard. Now I appreciate this video is about singers not composers but that then harks back to my previous comment. That being, Paul can sing anything and without sounding forced.
It is time for honest reappraisal and for those in the know to speak up on his behalf. Wouldn't it be great if the masses could give such credit prior to someone's passing. Paul McCartney is a genius but sadly half the world don't seem to realise that he was at the very least an equal to John. John was superior with lyrics I acknowledge that aspect. Yet as a musician and a singer Paul McCartney remains the top. His name with live on for generations just as Beethoven, Chopin, Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Ray Charles, Sinatra, and so on and on. I doubt somehow that the same will apply to probably 100 of those included in this list. Mariah Carey at number 5! Does anyone, even her fans, believe she will be part of the fabric of musical history for decades to come?
Paul McCartney, family man, ex-Beatle, world's most successful solo artist, composer, artist, and singer is not just a Sir but truly a phenomenon. The genuine genius among giants.
i have a step-brother who is the same age as me but is an intellectual genius whereas I am far from that. However, being a genius he has always seemed to wish to present himself as the hipster, cool avant guard type. He would dress himself and arrange his hair to be a Lennon look alike. I on the other hand would to him be considered the musically inferior type because McCartney was my favourite of the four. and that comes with imagery of ordinary bloke, commercially successful and consequently artistically weak.
Why mention this? Because it is my belief that there are two camps within those who worship John Lennon. Those who truely, and fairly, simply prefer him as a musician. There is nothing wrong with that. But there is another group that partially influenced by 'culture' of Rolling Stone and it's associates spout Lennon of as a genius and McCartney as inferior. That is not acceptable. Obviously my stepbrother associated with the later.
Strangely though, he never played and instrument whereas I could do a reasonable job on the piano. Like many pianists I cam to adore McCartney for his amazing melodies and scope of musical landscapes. I came to realise the man was indeed a genius. John is to me also a genius and I write that with sincerity. However if you are to ask any vocal coach they will tell you that McCartney had a superior singing voice as he had a wider octave range (don't believe those who say otherwise) and can sing admirably across a huge genre of music. In fact I can not think of another musician who can do so. I am beginning to repeat myself. My apologies but a huge thanks to Guitar Historian for filling in the blanks. And putting truth before image.
Imo merely being a musical genius doesn’t make the music you make interesting. I like Paul’s work with the Beatles but except for some songs on ram his music just doesn’t speak to me. His music is just of a place where I don’t live, it sounds effortless and doesnt shake me to my core
Johns music however feels more relatable to me, it feels like he’s got a song for every part of the raw human experience. It feels like he exposed parts of himself that people never talk about so it feels special that someone has those feelings too. His music is imperfect, his messages are sometimes not what I agree with, but it’s human. His music often sounds like a struggle sometimes, voice nearing its limits, life is a struggle sometimes.
Paul’s music for the most part feels either like a disconnect from life, like a movie or talking about safe topics. There’s nothing wrong with that, but these aspects don’t make his artistry stand out to me. The construction and excecution of his music has always been so perfect and clean, doesn’t seem difficult for him, maybe it’s cuz he’s such a instrumentalist/singer but i don’t relate, I’m not perfect, I like music I relate to.
I think Rolling Stone has a bias but at the same time I understand why they might have waited to induct his solo career cuz to me it feels like Lennon had a lot more bravery in his music to say some of the messages he did
@@debomb721 I actually really enjoyed reading your post. I have no difficulties at all with others have differences of opinion if they come from a genuine heart and head. In fact your very articulate post has been good for me to read as at last I can better understand why many prefer John's solo output. It shows just how important and useful great articulation and explanation is. I thought your openness and candour so appropriate as in ways it reflected what it is you love about John.
A really impressive viewpoint that I could understand. I still remain not a fan of Rolling Stone, however if I felt the writers were as genuine, sincere, and had the depth of your thinking I would probably be of a different disposition.
I know I almost sound like I am borderline 'sucking-up' but I assure you I am not. It's just that for the first time in my life I have read an opinion/position that I can understand, find purposeful and appreciate. Maybe that's why Paul and John, despite the bad times (which all friends have), had such respect for each other. They certainly brought the Ying and yang together to create wonderful music. Have a great year and again I thank you for opening my eyes a bit wider. I feel a better person for it and a greater appreciation for John Lennon who although more Macca leaning, I still have always considered John a musical genius - in fact more an artistic genius.
@@triplejazzmusicisall1883 you raise good points too, I do think RS is unfair towards Paul, I chalk it up to maybe Jann being a John guy rather than Paul but when I think of it he should try to set that aside and step back a bit and make sure Paul gets his due.
I like that tho, yin and Yang
I appreciate this discourse
@@debomb721 You're very kind. Thank you.
Jann Werner brown nosed himself to where he is today.🎸🎶
I was fortunate to see Jeff Beck 14 times, including his last tour last year with Johnny Depp. He was my all time favorite guitarist as well as musician. I am still in disbelief he has died, it hurts me as much as when my Mom died. #RIPJeffBeck #GOATGuitarist #ICON
I've missed you GH
Me to ! :)
Same. Glad to have you back
It’s amazing what a little power can do to some people's heads. The RRHF is just one mans' GD power trip. Period.
Really enjoy all the comments and the passion about who's not in the Hall of Fame. I mean I'm angry - and as a fellow Phillies fan I'm sure you agree - that the likes of Pete Rose, Ritchie Allen, and my 60s hero from the Dodgers, Maury Wills are not in.
Oh hell, my mistake, wrong hall.
Wrong hall, but the same issue - we all have beefs about who's in and who's not. I do agree that the fans should have more than one vote and if I can compare it with baseball again, the All-Star game voting doesn't get too whacky.
As an aside, I spent a couple of days visiting the HoF in Cleveland a few years ago and I enjoyed it, so if someone is running it down, but hasn't been there . . . Besides, it's ahead of whatever's in 2nd place.
Some trivia: the R&R HoF relies on donations of material from the performers. So if you wonder why a particular artist isn't represented it's because they weren't willing to donate any items. Can't recall what I was told re: what artist gets asked about the most, but now I know why there's nothing there from Dylan: it's all in his own museum in Tulsa!
I've been to the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and it was pretty cool. But having that jerk off Jann Wenner deciding who gets in is a travesty.
Glad to see you back...Hope everything's okay
Love your channel, great content! (subscribed). I looked through your videos but couldn't find one about Huw LLoyd-Langton. I feel he was one of the most unique, creative players ever - listen to Hawkwind's 'Levitation' album. Huw created soundscapes and flew through them on his guitar, like nothing else you'd ever hear. You can put the speakers either side of your head, turn off the lights and lose yourself in his music. He definitely deserves more recognition than he has received.
Wonderful eulogy for Jeff Beck. As for the Hall Of Fame, 'NUFF SAID!!
Welcome back!
Welcome back! The Rock Hall is an institution that should be heavily weighted toward a FAN vote, NOT the critics and record execs! Maybe it should be a function of how many records the act in question has sold? IMO Jann Wenner needs to be removed from the process!
Totally agree!
Great suggestion. Getting rid of Jann Wenner is an excellent place to start.
First of all, nice job buddy. You handled this subject beautifully. Secondly, I always thought the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame was a load of bullshit. The artists they put in and the ones they ignored never made any sense. But when you revealed Jann Wenner's involvement that's all I needed to hear. His treatment of Paul McCartney over the years was grossly unfair, despicable and inexcusable. He's a giant piece of sh_t. That's enough for me to pay NO attention to the R&R Hall of Crap. Thank you for your priceless information.
Terry Kath needs some love...😢
Good to see and hear you back in the saddle. You put up a great show, not just a video clip. Sorry to nitpick, just a little tip if I may: please make sure you have people's names correct. It's Ahmet Ertegun pronounced Arh met Er tee gun.
thanks you mr helper, how did we ever survive without your assistance?
I think someone tried to create a Museum of Rock in the UK. Is it still open?
If you're part of an older act and want to be inducted into the hall, just announce a tour or release a new album.
The collection of memorabilia is impressive but it's all a money making grab.
Calling it the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame is a piss poor joke.
Like all mainstream media rolling stone has lost 90% of its credibility... which it didn't deserve in the first place
Wenner should have been put out to pasture during the Nixon administration. This all goes back to John and Yoko's vitriolic 1970 RS interview and it just cascaded from there. You won't find a bigger Beatles fan than me, but John I think did a lot to turn Wenner (apparently not much for thinking on his own) against Macca.
Has there been further changes/upgrades to your Epi LP Junior? Can't quite make out whether that's still the P90 in the neck position or a mini humbucker, also see you added a Gibson sticker to the pickguard.
Found a cheap Gibson mini humbucker that came out of an SG on reverb. Not 100% sure I like it yet. Might try putting it in the bridge first but I’m most likely going back to the 2 P90s.
@@TheGuitarHistorian I do love P90s but also have a Firebird which has mini humbuckers, took me a while to get use to them but now that I have do like them for what they are.
Keep up the great work. 🤘
Rest in Peace Jeff ... Give my best to Jimi, Mick, Prince, Marc, Tommy and Jon.
I'd love to see Mick Ronson inducted (or the Spiders for that matter), As back up bands and sidemen go, I'd like to see Wings, Carlos Alomar, Chic, Waddy Wachtel, MFSB, The Revolution, Tony Levin, Herbie Flowers, Flo & Eddie, The Grease Band, Chris Spedding and these bands with no official names featuring Leland Sklaar/Danny Kortchmar/Russ Kunkel, Klaus Voormann/Jesse Ed Davis/Jim Keltner and Steve Hunter/Dick Wagner/Prakash John/Pentti Glan. While the people these guys backed went on to glory, these are the guys that got you groovin'!
And Why the hell were Rod Evans and Nicky Simper left out of the Deep Purple induction?!?
Thanks for a great video.
Cheers!
Rolling Stone magazine is really just guping old stuff
Signed: an old guy
it's a good thing Paul wasn't there:
- it was good for Paul avoiding all that "people" on stage (Yoko, Sean, Julian, George, Ringo and 2 other strangers)
- it was good for hall of fame since, every time he went there he treated the event in a nasty way (eg: in one occasion Linda had a short thing to say but Paul didn't allow her to talk, he just picked up the award, said thank you and left, leaving everybody with a bad taste in the mouth ..... and in another occasion he let other people picking up the awards for the Beatles .... he's not very reliable to for these events).
Never been to the R&R HoF, no plans to ever go. Jay-Z made it. Define Rock or Roll, for that matter. Maybe I'm just mad because my grandfather's barbershop quartet has still not gotten the call. To me this is the same as the Academy Awards, the Grammies or the Guiness Book of World Records. I like to hear a quick news blurb about who got in and the palace intrigue, then I quickly move on and make no point to ever support them. I have seen some of the memorabilia at Hard Rock Cafe's, another soulless marketing corporation that sell Rock as a menu item in a straightforward kind of way.
Rolling stone mag and jan wenner are all about fashion and marxist politics. They've NEVER been relivant where music or art are concerned. As far as the hall of fame is concerned, ~ Where is the rock and roll? where are the Searchers? ~ Paul revere and the Raiders, ~ Badfinger? ~ The Platters? The turtles? Paul McCartney is the renasisance man of our age, and Wenner has treated him with such disrespect.
disagree with your assessments and why you think you sre right. just your opinion
The people who are running the RRHF, need to be fired or something, or whoever it is that is nominating, inducting or whatever , bcuz I don't know how they figure who gets inducted into there, it's a bunch of shit that a lot of great acts, people that goes years and years without being inducted and a lot of great people from way back when still aren't in there, what's up with that? I don't understand it! Whole bunch of horse hockey!
Sad news about Jeff Beck. Beck, Bogert, Appice is one of my favorite albums. Good thing he rocked hard!
As far as the "Hall" goes. They have been a joke since the late 90's. Completely irrelevant and useless. Anyone who knows great music knows who the legends are. Who needs some clowns that shine chairs to tell them who the greats are?
Very delusional and very cringeworthy that they refer to themselves as "The Rock Hall."
The RRHoF is absolute garbage. How can anyone not know? Hard pass.
I couldn't have said it better myself. I recognized it as a bullshit money-grab institution a long time ago. It carries no weight or validity with me. Can't say it ever did.
I can't understand placing any importance on the whats, whys and wherefores of a place whose inner workings are in the hands of a few, all connected to the co-founder of Rolling Stone magazine, a woman named "Suzan Evans," and some literati at this once important but now barely relevant "magazine." Let's face it, "magazine" as a present day term refers more often to something connected to semi-auto firearms than publications released on a regular basis. When the admirable country songstress Dolly Parton is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (RRHOF), the connection of this vanity institution to the actual music it claims to represent is close to nil. But for you, the Rock n' Roll Historian, to upvote a comment which accuses Rolling Stone of "marxist (sic) politics," that's the point at which I unsubscribe. The trope liberal = Marxist is as ignorant and reductive as conservative = Fascist. To overlook this false equivalence is either a tacit agreement with TheNoisylover or an outright endorsement of this viewpoint. I thought the biggest problem with the RRHOF was its internal politics, and not the imagined ideology of the political content in RS.
RRHoF museum is for people who only know what they've heard on the radio... and don't mind going to Ohio. [Cringe] The whole thing is completely irrelevant and no one has any faith in the fairness of the inductions or the integrity of the people who run it. It might as well be a beanie baby museum. Good music is just that, and doesn't need a greedy institution in order to be recognized and cherished. And there are dozens of other places around the country to go and see famous guitars and outfits. Hell, Guitar Center even has some in their stores! 🤣🤣🤣
I don’t agree. Lennon’s voice has always appealed to me more than McCartney’s.
I call it a draw. Love that Scouser accent. :)
And that’s totally fine! I love John‘s voice as well. But I’m just saying that if you asked the two of them to sing certain songs, or be compared in a more objective way, Paul had more range. What Rolling Stone should have called the countdown was “the 200 greatest voices of all time.”
@@TheGuitarHistorian
You are so right. :)
@@TheGuitarHistorian Yes Paul had a greater range of notes. He could sing higher than John and George as well as doing a great impersonation of Little Richard. I just cannot listen to his voice when he sings ballads. He sounds so dreary and soulless. Other people tend to sing McCartney’s ballads much better.
Never had interest in hall of bull shit or rolling rubbish, the music, be it classical or to rock and the musicians
Mr "Guitar Historian" - Having had a quick scan though your uploads it appears that you believe guitars were invented sometime in the early 1960s and that guitars are instruments limited to electric or largely solid body construction.
There is no serious attempt to be a guitar historian evident.
Since your focus is so narrow and myopic perhaps you should consider either widening your scope to actually cover guitars and guitar players over the past 5 centuries or adopt a more accurate channel tag.
I look forward to your content covering the early days of guitar construction. It’s a name for the channel that’s eye catching and memorable. Obviously I focus on classic rock. sometimes you have to take a leap onto a branch to create a memorable brand.
@@TheGuitarHistorian Thank you for replying.
"I look forward to your content covering the early days of guitar construction.'
OK but why? I make no claim to be a Guitar Historian nor that I am presenting "Music History, one story at a time."
- and truly, I do appreciate your honestly in basically saying that accuracy in branding is not as important to you as chasing eyeballs. It's a refreshingly honest response where others may have just doubled down in denial.
Finally, I do enjoy the content, I just disagree with the description of it.