Lewis Lapham: Can America Survive the Rule of a “Stupified Plutocracy”?
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- When author and journalist Lewis Lapham, founder of Lapham’s Quarterly and former editor of Harper’s, turned his shrewd gaze on the go-go ‘80s in “Money and Class in America,” he never imagined the era’s avatar of greed would one day become President Donald Trump. Three decades later, Lapham shares his views on the decades-long deterioration of democracy in an interview with INET’s Lynn Parramore. An expanded and revised edition of his book is now available with a new foreward by Thomas Frank from OR Books.
Democracy died when corporations were allowed personhood and again when corporate money flooded politics.
Facts.
It died before that honey. Do you ever think The People had a say in any nation state? The only modern example I can think of is the independent soviets in Russia before Lenin's Bolsheviks took over.
@@Dahlen4Dummies Wasn't Lenin the father of that independence?
@@VelhaGuardaTricolor well actually the Imperial German Empire funded Lenin's infiltration of Russia. So that would make them the father.
@@Dahlen4Dummies Why would the German Empire be interested in making Russia into a superpower?
The plutocracy is not "stupefied." They are clever, ferocious, steely, patient, sinister, calculating and utterly ruthless barbarians.
They are venal and know how to work the tools of power. But they are not our smartest people.
Stupefied definition: "someone unable to think or feel properly". People who are clever, ferocious, steely, patient, sinister, calculating and utterly ruthless barbarians are also unable to think or feel properly.
I understood "Stupified Plutocracy" to mean the current plutocratic class has 'stupified' the average American citizen, not the plutocrat (who, yes, are wily, ruthless, self-serving...). We have been stupified into supporting anti-democratic ways of thinking and being.
And parasitic...
They are playing to an audience Bush, Trump and beyond are playing to to half the country that think the WWE is real. They are just what the caldron has bubbled and boiled to the surface.
As George Carlin said , “The American Dream ? You’ve got to be asleep to believe it “!
OR AN IMMIGRANT
Sorry to correct you but I think George Carlin should get the full credit deserved for this quote ; "It´s called the American dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it".
No s*** Sherlock you ever heard the term if you don't know your rights you don't have any were freedom is not free we got to fight for it but unfortunately we have to do it collectively you figure out how to do that and you solve the problem and quit worrying about trivial meaningless things like how somebody puts together a sentence let's focus on facts
@@robertabbott6736 but correct(or at least ballpark) delivery of your message is key. For instance, your one sentence reply should be like 5 different ones. Doesn't have to be mla or apa formatted, but I could make heads or tails of what you said much better if I knew where one thought ended and another began and didn't have to decipher it to decide. Leaves less ambiguity and interpretation of what you said so that your message is correct. Dude wasnt being grammar police and just wanted the delivery of the joke to be more concise. Writing a run on brain vomit in response about his suggested correction is also no help to solving the issues you're talking about either.
Just goes to show how clueless you are I'm not going to waste my time and spend hours teaching you what I spent thousands of hours learning that's your problem
"In 1984 income earned from dividends and rent exceeded income earned from wages." No wonder things are so out of balance. The working class are merely share croppers for the owner class. I'm retiring in 3 years and will be finally free of this indentured servitude.
Not really, almost free, once retired the medical and health insurance companies are going to start to consume what you earned and what is left of you and your wealth. They want it all back and they will get it too.
You still won't be free. The only freedom is death. Then they can't touch you. Until then, they still can. Good luck.
Lucky you
You only had to spend your whole life working to buy your way out
@@diversetribe231 Nope. I knew it was all lies from the age of 10. So, how is one man going to fight the owner class and a 500 year old system where the rich keep all the money and power?
The personal ambitions of a few has made life miserable for the many.......they take everything and give nothing
@William Pierce Uh. Explain how the OP's comment is not justified by the billionaires spending smaller countries' military budgets in order to take pleasure cruises to space? Surely, you recognize yourself as the outlandish one in this circumstance?
@William Pierce Remember those words.
Also, you don't seem to have much computing power based on your inability to recognize the argument.
@William Pierce So I take it you have no problem with our billionaires being able to purchase politicians and pervert our government?
@William Pierce How old are you?
Lewis Lapham has seen through the game for decades! Love this old dude. Bravo, sir! And Lynn Parramore is asking some good questions,too. She knows his work & that matters. Well done, all around. This will hold up over time.
The real truth is always eternal.
Actual LEADERSHIP is how we restore faith in democracy. We need leaders, not corporate owned stooges.
Good luck with that. The lies and propaganda that the people are fed via the media will make sure that fear and ignorance prevail.
We also need to organize people at the grassroots to exert mass pressure.
@@lawsonj39 I'm feeling, and hoping, it is starting to come around to that very thing more frequently. The work is far from done, but the youth are motivated and many are appaled at the last few cycles of politics.
Donald Trump was not a "Corporate Stooge". These kinds of people hated him for not being so (Both on the Left and the Right). Why do you think they spent millions of dollars and years trying to undermine him? I think Lewis allows himself a moment of intellectual snobbery in basically dismissing DJT as merely a sort of abboration born out of celebrity culture. Trump to me was an antidote to the very corruption of the DC Swamp Lewis is otherwise highlighting. Trump was for the ordinary wage-earner so despised by these hypocritical elitist anti-democratic corporate snobs in Washington DC.
@@Mediumal no, Trump owns corporations and is a complete stooge. I.E. a corporate stooge. He doesn't give a rat's about low wage earners beyond their utility to him. He just makes idiots feel special so they will serve his needs. He's literally the cross of corporate America and media America in one given his history. And works an angle to make you feel like they are both the enemy while being that very thing himself.
Reading Money And Class in America lifted me from a depression I didn't even know I had. Clarified my values against the barrage of propaganda and gloss.
You're touched on what I think is the universal solution. We ALL have to learn to see through that barrage of gloss and propaganda to see who we really are, to put humans and earth above wealth, and try out something like Jeremy Rifkin's Distributed Lateral Power in his Third Industrial Revolution, which is upon us.
@@larrysherk
Thank you, Larry, for reminding me of Rifkin. I will look into DLP.
I had a similar experience. Lapham is also quite simply a damn good writer, which probably explains why relatively few people know of him. Keeping North Americans dumbed-down is all they really need propaganda to do for them. Goebbels understood this, eventually realizing that keeping the minds of the masses full of mindless fluff was far more effective in gaining and maintaining compliance rather than excessively didactic messaging. He despised the movie, "Hitlerjugend Quex" for exactly this reason, envying Hollywood's skill at the craft, as well as the resources the moguls had at their disposal.
Good, thank you. I'll add it to my reading list. I should have looked him up ages ago because I was similarly affected years ago by his classic essay, Tentacles of Rage. Can be found online and well worth looking up.
"lifted me from a depression I didn't even know I had."--Jack Saturday, that is a sign of powerful propaganda.
At Minute 12:30 he describes the way to measure equality in a society. The ratio of profits earned from investments versus the wealth earned from wages. Brilliant!
I think Pikettys book Capital (in the 21st century) touched on these patterns. Excellent subject
A masterful job was done by the interviewer, who listened attentively and asked incisive questions at every stage. And Mr. Lapham provided responsive and interesting answers.
Really? The interviewer, Lynn Paramore, seemed to me vying for a higher seat at the table, which was not really clear til the end, though suspected: she jammed Lapham repeatedly, as he tried to thank her, so much so that he finally raised both palms in self-defense as he simply strove to keep good grace and a patient tone. She is quite sneaky, and not what a real interviewer should have been here.
@@johnervin8033 Interviewing is a difficult task. Not only do you need a plan, you need to be able to adapt it on the fly, since the interviewee often provides responses that were not anticipated. Thanks for your reply.
@@beltigussin81 I’m surprised anyone made the effort to respond to my rather innocuous comment. It just goes to show that there is no reality only our perceptions of it; and it is distorted by our own abilities and experiences of life. There are few facts rather just opinions. Yes, Mr. Lapham is an elderly man and seems to suffer its frailties. Nevertheless it was nice of him to make the effort to share his thoughts. „Jeder will alt werden, aber keiner will es sein.“ ― Martin Held (Everyone wants to become old, but no one wants to be old.)
@@beltigussin81 Why is it that so often those who are dismissive of a certain kind of intellectual have frailties of their own that aren't age related, but grammar related? We see that on threads all the time. It's curious, but it is an affliction that stands out for any who can see it.
He may be too late to "lay" down, or even get down, but he's still a scholar, in my "book".
@@vanderwandersmann1263 All too true, but I am still unconvinced as to her intentions, which she seems to have packed in advance for this journey. Thumb down.
Refreshing to see a wise veteran interviewed by a young smart woman. Great inter generational dialogue
"In 1984 for the first time in US history...money earned from dividends and rents exceeded money earned from wages."
Sobering and true.
And why is that bad?? That sounds like a successful economy.
@@dubaidoug5102 Asking that question shows that you have no idea of what 'fiat currency' means.
If the 'money' in the economy is not the result of wealth creation (i.e. raw materials turned into marketable goods) then that 'money' becomes a fiction.
The monetary system is so far down the rabbit hole of 'fiat currencies' that it is now a house of cards. Unless everyone is prepared to go along with the fiction - the whole thing will come crashing down.
Fortunately (?) everyone is prepared to maintain the fiction ... for the moment.
@@colindavidreese9538 Your reply deserves more likes, so here are some extras: 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Yeah..I saw that in Action..
Whole different Attitude..
Of sloppy..
during the Reagan/Thatcher era, where everything was privatized. 'trickle-down' economics was a scam right from the start
She asked " Do we live in democracy?" His answer, "No." " Government by the people is hard to do, and requires good faith in the enterprise...because there has been a loss of faith in the democratic idea."
And he gave hope. "We've come back to democracy after the Civil War and with the New Deal...."
Nice interview. I especially agree with Mr. Lapham about needing a strong education system.
A gentleman, wise and compassionate! The female interviewer did a great job: modest and sincere.
Very true and perspicace
@@easternlordsyoussef4044 - Best wishes!
Beg to disagree.
His lack of common manners is appalling.
At 5:54 and OTHER times, Lapham COUGHS on the INTERVIEWER. No cover. No head turn!
Who does THAT?
Answer: nobody of credibility and learning.
A real selfish-lazy thoughtless fool.
That statement is dripping with 19th century misogyny. "modest" indeed! Smdh...
*modest?
"All that is needed is money and a candidate who can be coached to look sincere. Political principles and plans for specific action have come to lose most of their importance. The personality of the candidate, the way he is projected by the advertising experts, are the things that really matter." - Aldous Huxley
I love what this man has to say. The whole decade of the 90s was a plan where I was set up to fail. I worked my ass off in jobs, school, raising my son, fending off my mom's dominance as well as my family opinions, and I was so proud to have my car, bills and rented homes in MY name. Only I couldn't level up in the work department, and I graduated from 2 vocational schools. Got my GED and driving permit at one of them. So many job interviews, being low income, and getting nowhere that I regarded as successful. I wanted to have a career and provide like my dad did. Didn't happen.
I totally relate to your story. I grew up in the 80’s and 90’s, I think in the future we will recognize this as the period right before America’s chickens came home to roost.
the working class cannot be set up to fail at the one thing that matters. professor mao will explain.
Tucker Carlson would say that you didn't try hard enough, and you can't expect to have everything handed to you on a plate.
@@himoffthequakeroatbox4320 Tucker Carlson, the TV dinner heir, has never had to try as hard as most working people do.
So now do you understand why Millenials have lost thier feicken minds?
Only 47K views??? This is GOLD!!! This should have at least 10 million hits. ( I will share it to as many people as I can ) PLEASE DO THE SAME! It is our collective responsibility.
The Corporate Algorithms suppress this kind of stuff.
@@trickbaby8441 lol stop, here we go with the 🚨 conspiracy BS. I found this off the algorithm and I'm so glad
@@trickbaby8441 it has more to do with what people search for and watch.
I could show this to my MAGA sister but with her limited attention span she would be unable to make it to the end of the interview. Even if she could make it all the way through, most of the content would go right over her head. The ones who need to see this the most never will.
@@str8died Absolutely, anti Capitalist and Socialist voices are suppress, its obvious and foremost it's profitable.
Corporations don't have to and would never tell you what they're doing or how they do it. Don't be naive .
I really admire this man. That book isn’t been offered by Amazon. Why am I not surprised???
If you have a Scribd subscription it's there. I highly recommend their subscription because very often people upload PDFs of books you can't find elsewhere.
"Isn't being"
@@SunofYork You are correct, thank you.
@@CG-kf5vh Gracefully accepting correction is rare on the internet.. I commend you ! We all make mistakes and that's why they put rubbers(erasers) on the end of pencils...
@@SunofYork "...isn´t being..." is the correct correction. Thanks for gracefully accepting it. Language policing is a very delicate and demanding hobby.
Of the many online discussions over the decline of our society, this interview is the best.
The phrase "Stupified Plutocracy" is awesometacular.
Many thanks to New Economic Thinking and Lewis & Lewis Lapham
there is no such word as 'awsometacular' and your making up nonsense is part of the problem
@@DougHinVA But you get his point, eh?
By the way "you're"= you are; "your"= possessive
But I get your point, eh?
Plutostupocracy? StupoPlutocracy?
There is no problem creating a new word which is easy to understand. 'Awesometacular= Awesome+ Spectacular.' It's not hard.
@@HarrySmith-hr2iv 'Awesometacular' is stupid. Just like any leftist who voted for Biden, who has totally ruined the American economy ON PURPOSE!
Totally abandoned the southern border, allowing millions of illegal aliens to freely flood into the United States unhampered. The Biden regime gifted the Taliban with billions of dollars worth of US military weapons and equipment. Biden personally helped the fascist Zelensky regime in place in Ukraine, and is now waltzing the world towards a nuclear war with Russia.
"all government is oligarchy, can't get around it"
hot shit
The American Dream has become quite literally for many in this country precisely that....a dream.
The American Dream was always limited to the fourth generations of inherited old money... But it was sold as hope on a string to the gullible 98% of the working middle class... And the middle class was never ever supposed to grasp the sting of false hope... It is, what it always has been...
“It’s called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it” George Carlin
Great interviewer!! Great voice on that woman. Clear, firm, confident, intelligent. She asked great questions and she referenced the book correctly.
"Money is the beginning, middle and end of the story."
If the story is one of Catastrophe then yes.
If the story is one of love, happiness, wealthy and peace than the beginning, middle and end is Social Equality.
Greed is Good
The Americans have become astonishingly greedy. They print money without any value. Wall Street has created a Financial Mythology: you believe in their phony derivatives, CDO’s, and counterfeit money backed by more debt; and, they get rich!
We have allowed our republic to be commandeered by 2 political parties who since the civil war, have identical policies that continue to harm the working people of the USA - things that take the most money, things that have the most effect on the people: drug wars, privacy and the surveillance state, war against whistle blowers & openness of government, war against small business, the endless wars, the complete support of Wall Street corruption & corporate oligarchy in shaping the social fabric with dreadful policies, there is virtually no difference! And for that reason, those issues - the most important ones - aren't even being discussed by either side because there is no difference! Both political parties are irredeemably evil. Neither have any redeeming virtues. Both sides, and the media, sell out to their corporate & banking sponsors!
Why are the American people unconcerned by their continual loss of freedoms: from 911 until covid-mania! Dependent now upon government and the continual printing of counterfeit money, they cling to government like a child to a security blanket. They no longer hold value in those freedoms they no longer hold. They have turned them over to a single political party with 2 names. WACO: the white man’s Wounded Knee!
Now Social Security represents a 212 trillion-dollar unfunded debt. Wall Street has created 1.5 quadrillion dollars in phony derivatives and cross collateralized debt. As long as the Americans allow their empire to exist, their bodies will continue to be traded like energy chattel to a group of elites that feed & direct their leaders.
One look at an Indian Reservation brings great sadness: a once humble and dignified peoples now entirely dependent upon the government for everything. And look at how it has destroyed their culture and souls. At last, by and large, the people of the USA have become dependent upon the government, and the USA is becoming one big reservation!
The life expectancy is the lowest in the world; education & medicine is the lowest in the world among civilized nations (medicine ranked 72nd overall); whilst they now house 30% of the world’s prisoners and civilizations largest collection of children prisoners and opioid addicts. And you believe they care for your health during a so-called covid-crisis?! The covid crisis, a virus created by Fauci and his merry men, has brought about histories biggest transfer of wealth!
@@VelhaGuardaTricolor What color is the sky in that make believe world?
@@remoevans7847 There was a time when the wheel was also possible only in a make believe world.
There has never been evolution in any area of humanity without people having an idea and the faith that things could be better.
I wonder what made you lose your faith.
@@VelhaGuardaTricolor Reality!
We, the People, need to rise up and apply the rule of law and order as the proprietors of our Homeland. The bankster and corporate vulture is the enemy
Indeed. Abandon the two-party dictatorship. Get ranked-choice voting and proportional representation in Congress. Abolish the Senate. Support alternative political parties. Open up the presidential debates to more than two political parties. Overturn the Supreme Court Citizens United decision. End corporate funding of elections. Restore publicly funded elections. Get public democratic control of at least half of all media signals. Wake the folk up.
and control the police & military
@public domain - That'd be kinda hard to do. Corporations will buy their own armies to fight "We the People". Their soldiers would consist of "We the People", who chose money over America. That would be a huge army.
@@philmessina476 don’t forget to tax churches, first and foremost-
@@kendallsmith1458 Unfortunately looking from the outside of the USA, your Police seem like a branch of your Military - where do you see the seperation?
How come people who are wise and insightful like Mr. Lapham do not run our government? It is so sad...
They aren't corrupted! !! 😁
They wont let them.
It's easy to look wise in a friendly interview. Political hypocrisy is the national religion.
That is the center of our problem. Politicians are performers, they're different from Actors in that they represent they're performance as reality.
And that is what we are fighting people: the stupefied, greedy and, very dangerous PLUTOCRACY.
I had the pleasure of attending a Lewis Lapham lecture in 1997 when he was touring Hotel America. Have always admired his intellect.
12:27 - America was out of balance in 1988
12:33 - In 1984, for the first time in America,
_________ money earned from dividends & rents exceeded money earned from wages
I was literally typing the same thing
I am looking to get more dividends and will look into getting rent money.
That is a spot on assessment. It also reflects why this problem is so tough to crack. How many public service retiries depend on these corporate funds? All of them!
@@FriendlyFarmMachineryToolCpBel there should be a federal retirement system, an add on to social security, in which you can pay in and get a decent living on retirement with no reference to interest rates, which congress can change as it likes. the fed is only independent unless and until congress decides otherwise.
America went out of balance under Nixon by sending our factories there. And banks giving people credit cards to buy things with money they will never have, caused billion dollar industries.
Wow!!! Paul Volcker - former Fed chairman expressed his concern about plutocracy to Adam Sorkin in today's New York Times. Serendipity, perhaps.
I've read Lapham's Quarterly for years now. It's an eclectic mix of topics from multiple cultures and time periods. Whatever the topic, it brings home the idea, "We've been here before" or "plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose".
Lapham is more of an observer than he is a problem solver. Intellectuals can always tell you what's wrong, but not how to fix it and the Catch 22 is that there is always something wrong.
Like Thomas Sowell always says. There are no solutions, only tradeoffs.
@@tileguru2061 "The first step in solving any problem is recognizing (& acknowledging) that there is one."
Wow, I love him. Watched him on PBS when I was a kid in the 1980s. Those were heady times!
I had to leave the US to achieve the American Dream.
Where did you go?
So did I ! Learned beautiful culture in Europe , saw nice countrysides in latin and south America , visited exotic places in Asia and north Africa . I was shocked to see how materialistic and unsensitive the US mentality had remained and our narcissistic and superficial the american oligarchs were ! Democratic society WE are not but a ploutocratic leucocratic kleptocrats we ARE ! A race divided country can not be call a democracy unless we are propagandizing !
@@gregorystarks2514 I saw beautiful landscapes in China Mexico and Indonesia too. I also saw grinding poverty that I couldn't imagine. I'm guessing the kids I saw fighting over a chicken bone thrown out of a train that had shelves (bunks) in China or the the guy begging with withered hands weren't worried about materialistic things like health care or food. I'm sure there was a lot of sensitivity there too.
@@robertbishop7340 Did you go to Germany and see the jewelers shops in the underground train tunnels ? Why do Americans always compare themselves to s_hole countries ? Is it insecurity ?
So did I. New Zealand for me, although Trumpism is gaining a foothold even here.
I think he's completely wrong about the founding fathers they never intended for the poor to have the right to vote. You had to own land back then in order to vote
That was changed
You are right. I live in NJ and here county representatives are called "Freeholders". That comes from those
days you had to own a minimum of 5 acres of "freehold property" to be able to vote and a minimum of 50
acres to be elected into a public office or function. Nothing has really changed.
I think your vote should be multiplied by your tax rate percentage. Everyone should pay about the same rate.
@@axelschroeder6657 I live in Jersey and often thought about that title 😊. Thanks for the meaning.
I don’t think much can be done at this time. The scales are very unbalanced. We can ask, plea, and vote but power and privilege are the Devils domain, and fairness, goodness, equality, and caring for others is Gods’ character. (As seen clearly in the 10 COMMANDMENTS)
We are headed towards a full fascists state. It’s what the Middle Ages was about. And let’s not forget, the ruler in those days was the Catholic Church.
@@NEMO-NEMO Interesting thoughts NEMO, thank you for sharing them ! First, when you say "you live in Jersey", do
you mean New Jersey or the island of Jersey ? I have been to Jersey quite a few years ago and I think with all
the traveling I've done in the past, it is one of the most beautiful places.
Although I take it from your comments that you are a Christian (I on the other hand) am a good and devout
atheist, but I completely agree with you that we are heading towards a totalitarian regime that only
maskerades as a democracy. Like the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, today the power brokers of the
Miitary Industrial Complex are the real rulers, using the facade of former democratic structures to hide
their firm grip on power. It would be interesting to get your comments on that. Have a nice weekend !!!
not sure if it is just correlation, but it seems like every time regulations are loosened and tax rates are slashed for the wealthy and businesses, we go through massive economic polarization and economic turmoil. This happened in the 1920s, 2000s, and 2010s.
1980's - 2020's. Things were more socialized in the 30's - 70's which were a relatively leftist era. Note we had a conservative period through the 17th, 18th, 19th, and early 20th century through the 1920's.
I bought the book 30 years ago. It's great. I reread it every few years. The other books you might like are The Late Great Planet Earth, The Theory of the Leisure Class, Cows Pigs Wars and Witches, and Molloy's Live for Success
Parliament of Whores.
PJ o Rouke..
Good election finance laws are a key to maintaining democracy.
in Canada, “No corporation, union, or unincorporated entity can contribute to a federal election. only Canadian citizens and landed immigrants can contribute to a maximum of $1650 per year.”
This is why ordinary people hate Citizens United. When corporations and rich individuals are allowed to donate as much money as they want, the United States and any country that operates with no regulations on funding politics is doomed to fail from its own corruption, which causes unsustainablity of trust in the majority of people. This is how bad unregulated capitalism can be.
Outstanding conversation.
Don't talk or shout, listen, the principal idea of a Democracy is mutual respect.
Brilliant interview. I wish there had been more. That guy totally kicks ass
John Cleese: "Its all bottoms with you people"
Clear mind gentleman. Thank you!
Billionaires should be forced to wait tables and banned from politics.
The problem is not billionaires becoming politicians who go into politics, the problem is politicians coming out of politics as billionaires .
Nobody should be forced to do anything. This language helps nothing and nobody
Academics, also .
Wonderful insights from a great thinker. Thanks.
Brilliant man.....and so ethical !
Lapham Quarterly is amazing. Brilliant at every level
I don't think life can survive on this planet, because this country has oligarchs, and too many Americans admire them.
Very interesting to discover this man, Lewis Lapham.
Fantastic. Thanks very much. Really.
Blame the people in government, blame government, blame the media, blame the courts. The people must share the blame. And take responsibility for their role in a democracy. The struggle is never finished. Get up!
Wow this is so
Cool to see Lapham on video! Enjoyed his magazines podcast so much so far
This man was fascinating to listen to!
Excellent presentation.
Fascinating stuff! Even Tocqueville noticed that the quality of American leadership had declined demonstrably by 1831, compared to the 18th century.
Such a wonderful publication
This country was founded by plutocrats: big merchants and slaveholding planters. They sat on a House of the Burgesses in each colony and contrived a war of independence in which the yeomen would do the fighting but from which they would derive the benefits, afterward ruling directly rather than as viceroys. American history has conveniently forgotten even the name "burgess", but it's used in the first pages of the _Communist Manifesto._ The "Founders" knew that the first democracy in Athens was presided over by the Demos class of slaveholding idlers. Democracy = rule of the Demoi. Contrarily, the Greek word, then and now, for "people" is 'laos' (λάος), from which we get the English words 'layman' and 'laïty'. But the model for the American republic was the Roman republic. In Rome they had a republic that was presided over by an idle, slaveholding patrician class. However, in Rome they at least had a Tribunus Publius (Tribune of the People) who ranked as high as a consul and represented the yeomen. But the "Founding Fathers" of America conveniently forgot all about that branch of government. Hear Michael Parenti talk about "The Myth of the Founding Fathers": ua-cam.com/video/yypklblxiMM/v-deo.html
Learn some more history. 1. A substantial number of the "founders", including one George Washington, were directly involved in the conflicts at the risk of their lives and fortunes. Hardly contrivance at a safe distance. 2. Better seen as a rebellion of the colonial "parliaments", you as suggest, against the British parliament. (Not "Americans" against a King -- they made considerable efforts appealing to George to overrule Parliament. He didn't. Then the Declaration of Independence). But wrong to suggest the colonial legislatures lacked local representation. Was it one set of interests against another? Yes, always. Was it about democracy? No. Was it about a more equitable system of government? Yes. In context, after the American revolution, the new republic did differ in some substantive ways from the European nations. And people of recent European descent -- as opposed to African or Asian or indigenous American -- had more social and economic mobility. In two words, more freedom. Was that purchased on the backs of others, and over long run, was it co-opted to establish and maintain a largely parasitical elite? I would say "Yes." Can you lay that all on the founders? No. Inverting the myth is still being a prisoner of myth. Post WWII saw a boom in general prosperity and with that, increasing social and economic equality. Sometime in the late 70s-early 80s, all that went off the rails. Decisions made in my lifetime matter more than decisions made roughly 250 years ago. That's what Lapham was discussing. We were living up to a substantial fraction of the American Promise -- now, it seems we're no longer even trying.
Atlanta Bill --- CORRECT and ON THE MONEY. | Thank you for the facts, which most Americans and most Muricans do not know, because [COMPLEX and COMPLICATED REASONS].
@@americanexile George Washington and his staff of gentleman officers dined lavishly in warm colonial mansions while his soldiers starved in the snow with only a small outdoor fire on the barren ground to keep them warm. His class is still the class that rules today. The burgesses have always controlled their privileged social position through local legislatures appointed by them through backroom primary selections and courts corrupted by them. If labor leaders aren't compliant, they simply murder them, like their murder of UAW leader Walter Reuther; of course they never soil their hands with such matters themselves. Native Americans were hunted like beasts and their scalps collected to see which human hunters collected the most bounty. There was never much social mobility to speak of, and when there was it meant that new blood was taken into the company of the 10% who horded the wealth for themselves and their offspring. Post-WWII saw a boom for a slightly increased class of professionals, but for the rest post-war inflation made it a hard life for everyone else. The boom was here in America because every other country's industrial plants had been bombed into rubble.
@@marianotorrespico2975 You could add [censored in the classroom and publishing houses (Betelsmann AG, who printed the manuals and pamphlets for Hitler's SS, owns most of the Engish-language publishing today) and by the social-media monopolies].
Interesting that I was thinking too about having a smart observer(s) from the low classes in the government who not have power directly but who would report how the government worked, explain certain things and also report corruption, lack of transparency, wasting of government money...etc.
Lapham is an intelligent author and journalist. Kudos as well to the interviewer, who did a great job. She obviously did her homework. So often today, the corporate media interviewer/journalist doesn't even read a book (for example) that their subject has written so they can ask an astute question.
Get that man a glass of water. His throat needs to be well hydrated to spit these facts. Protect that man and his teachings for the future.
"Which college ... the graduates of which college had done the most damage to America over the last 100 years?" 6:45
Conclusion by Lewis Lapham: Harvard
I knew the answer. Look at all the top bankers in the global financial elites, they are mostly Harvard graduates. Also, in nonprofits as well.
I much prefer the Great Egalitarian University of UA-cam to Harvard or Chicago. Don't let them fuck it. Force Pichai to provide escape tunnels to avoid dumbing-down echochambers.
“In 1984, money earned from dividends & rents exceeded money earned from wages.” Thanks Ronald Reagan. The beginning of the end of democracy.
@@lepidoptera9337 Yeah butterfly, I was. The quote was from Lewis Lapham in the interview.
Reagan was an incredible president. He won 49 states during his re-election in 1984. Very well-loved. The last president to be revered by those on both sides of the aisle.
He kicked off 20 years of American prosperity.
@@dubaidoug5102 Lol he screwed over America for years to come. Just because his popular ratings were high doesn't mean his policies were fine.
Him, Bushes, Clinton(s), and Obama (with Biden).
Trump was whatever. He was in there for himself first and foremost.
@@dubaidoug5102 Reagan was an actor: He got dressed up, got made-up, stood on his mark and said his lines.
Thank you for this.
This is a great interview! Where we are in terms of the political system and equality/inequality.
So insightful, thanks. Would love to have a conversation with this gentleman
I was thinking the same. Mr. Lapham seems like good company.
Indeed. Let's just hope we don't engage in idle chatter, as poverty grows, inequality widens, the environment worsens for life on Earth, and we slide into 'fascism of one form or another', as Mr. Lapham noted.
Are we, the people, idling, as the 'stupefied plutocracy' are leading us into a plandemic dystopia?
Where is the civic engagement, which can meaningfully challenge and counter this 'stupefied plutocracy'? Or do we have a stupefied plutocracy ruling over a stupefied working class?
I feel so blessed to be born in this country and yet so damned to be shackled to the impending consequences of the few who would manipulate the many. Life is cyclic because the natural world demands it, but history always repeats itself because humans are, well, human. Get ready in whatever way you can. Fasten your seat belt and try to enjoy the ride.
are we having fun yet?
Much is this is owning to the frictions of life.
Shit has hit the fan.
Well said.
Fantastic interview!
I've watched it 3 times already.
for a tragically small percentage of the US population not only a regrettably unknown role model but an icon of our age. His use of irony in his long years as editor of Harpers magazine not only suggests that of Mark Twain but augments the standard of American journalism in bringing understanding and pleasure to the general dialogue of our national debate. The shrill harangues of the last 40 years in our national debates augment the value of the reasoned perspective and ineffable humor of Louis Lapham.
Another voice both suppressed and downed out by the corporate media. Controlling media is one of the most foolish and self-destructive acts of government. The leadership is compelled to act according to the ignorance and error which it has fostered in the people, in order to retain legitimacy.
Only the rich can afford to act in ignorance and error, as a resource constrained economy will likely fail with the consequent and accumulating costs and damages brought about by increasingly chronic and endemic mis-management.
Lapham: agree or not agree, but he's a serious and thoughtful man...
And thoroughly insulated by privilege.
excellent!
Democracy is like a marriage, it's hard work, requires patience, and you have to keep working on it...
"If you are truly gods, then you will not injure those who have never harmed you, but if you are
mortal, then advance, and find men and women who are your equals!"
The Spartans to the commander of the Roman legions
"Democracy is an idea. You never succeed in making it a fact. And you have to keep working at it. Every day. And if you don't, you slide back into some form of fascism."
Good stuff.
You have to understand that the US was established as a republic not a democracy. Read the Constitution.
@@williamwhitten7820 Thanks. I have! There are two major views on the constitution:
1) "Originalism," which claims that the original intentions of the drafters, much like those of religious prophets, should remain unmodified as an inflexible dogma; and
2) "Pragmatism," which claims that the constitution is a living document and its essence has to be properly contextualized based on the times and the will of the people.
I'm guessing you're more of an originalist, and I'm more of a pragmatist. My position is that the U.S. should be pursuing a democratic ideal. The well-informed will of the majority should rule. What is the ideal of a republic? Is that more of a states' rights approach?
@@dylanobrien1547 'Pragmatism', is not the written law, it is man's attempt to redefine the law according to their own opinions.
"much like those of religious prophets"...Please, hyperbolic nonsense such as that have no place in rational discourse.
You say, "The well-informed will of the majority should rule." That is exactly what the Framers of the Constitution wanted to avoid, 'majority rule', that tramples the rights of the minority.
"What is the ideal of a republic?" You ask. The principles that the nation was founded upon. which are found in the Declaration of Independence. "We find these Truths to be Self Evident". If you do not grasp how the Declaration informs the Constitution, you have a lot to learn.
@@dylanobrien1547 Before you get into the assertions that "original intent" included abiding by slavery, allow me to introduce you to *The Northwest Ordinance*
The Northwest Ordinance, officially titled “An Ordinance for the Government of the Territory of the United States North West of the River Ohio,” was adopted by the Confederation Congress on July 13, 1787. Also known as the Ordinance of 1787, the Northwest Ordinance established a government for the Northwest Territory, outlined the process for admitting a new state to the Union, and guaranteed that newly created states would be equal to the original thirteen states. Considered one of the most important legislative acts of the Confederation Congress, the Northwest Ordinance also protected civil liberties and *outlawed slavery in the new territories.*
@@williamwhitten7820I hadn't been aware of that specific ordinance. But Wikipedia (sorry!) tells me that the Northwest Ordinance was only controlling law in a few northern states. The constitution, as a federal document, was controlling over the whole republic. And some states in the republic thought that slavery didn't violate the constituion.
And I'm not a die-hard anti-originalist. Rather, I think the important question should be what the *intent* was of the drafters of the constitution. Intent is always very difficult to decipher. It's more of a question of psychology than of law. We can say that the drafters probably wanted the best for their country. But "the best thing for the country" has changed over the years. And are we talking about conscious or unconscious intent?
The only absurd thing about originalism is the related claim that the intentions of the drafters was clear in the constitution. The constitution is a remarkably short and obscure document. Much ink has been spilled trying to figure out what the heck it meant. To claim that its meaning is clear is dishonest.
Really great
Amazing video.
It appears to me, that the growing economic inequality in America, the concentration of wealth in the hands of very small number of people, resemble the similar situation, as it was in tsarist Russia in the 1905.
Eventually, the intolerable, unbearable conditions for majority of the society, lead to the general revolution of the masses against the "boyars".(the rich, ruling oligarchy, considered exploiters and parasites).
Don't you think, that the same could happen in America, some time in the future, unless some radical change takes place?
lenin is coming. inequality is worse than france before the revolution and in the ballpark of czarist russia. lapham is wrong on the balance between capitalism and democracy. we were never balanced after the 2nd world war. we live in a fake democracy. you cannot do a democracy with capitalism. it is the antithesis of democracy.
how do you get it back? never had it, never will.
@William Pierce lol its interesting that someone arguing against the unproven utopianism of communism (utopian thinking is absurd as it inevitably requires humanity to collectively be better than we are) would use a fictional character from a fairly tale to try to make the point. Did I say interesting? I meant hilarious. You might consider figuring out how to demonstrate the veracity of your silly religion before using it to prop up an argument.
@William Pierce Oh dear. One of us is an educated human being who doesn't believe in ghosts and goblins while the other literally invoked the boogeyman and believes in a children's story that is no different than what other faiths believe except yours is somehow special. Ok cupcake 👌. Go talk to your priest so he can tell you how to respond. You simply don't have the wattage to play with me. You have a rather inexplicable case of main character syndrome if ever there was one.
The economic ruling class need to be smart enough to leave just enough on the table for everybody else or the term "class warfare" will become more than just a rightie talking point.
“Miners, or people who had stolen something.” The new rich summed up concisely.
He really helps bring things into focus
.. Johnny Cash' s song comes to mind: "Sixteen tons .. what do get .. a day older and deeper in debt". How many lost hard earned money in upheavals that took place and that is taking place regularly? If one does not have staying power (affordable health amongst them) or can not sustain himself / herself financially _ you lose and oligarghs win in this system.
I Agee, however the song "Sixteen tons" was written and performed by Merle Travis" and later popularized by Cash.
Actually, Tennessee Ernie Ford's version of "Sixteen Tons" was #1 on the Hit Parade the week of Nov. 26, 1955, and stayed there until January 7, 1956. Don't believe I heard it prior
to that. I think that's probably the version most people remember although it's rarely played today. ;) @@JimMaisonneuve-ri9vg
Tennesse Ernie Ford sang Sixteen Tons.
Very good interview, on both sides. Thank you!
I needed to know this.
Nice. Very nice!
Thank you much. Excellent! It seems that the corporate capitalist have made great strides and democracy is very much weakened and in dangerous territory.
Do we live in democracy 🤔, no we live in a badly weakened democracy. So what democracy did America want to promote in Middle East 🙄 .
Proposal for Constitutional Amendment: "Corporations are not people; money is not speech."
This man is a joy to listen too Especially when he was younger
America is a very dynamic society: it is going somewhere fast.
ian balmer Where, where?
David Perkins Precisement, mon ami! Je suis un Prends Pisseur Anglais.
ian balmer I take comfort that the special relationship endures as we take this wonderful new direction together...
Battle of the freedoms - economic vs. social. Neoliberalism, the 45-yr. global economic policy, is an ideology founded by libertarian economist and Austrian aristocrat, Freidrich von Hayek and promoted by libertarians Milton Friedman, James Buchanan, the Koch brothers and others. This failed ideology hates the nation-state and would prefer to replace national borders with property lines and end the very concept of citizenship:
"In a libertarian society, there is no commons or public space. There are property lines, not borders. When it comes to real property and physical movement across such real property, there are owners, guests, licensees, business invitees and trespassers - not legal and illegal immigrants." ~ Jeff Deist, president of the Mises Institute
The Rep Party is today dominated by this failed libertarian radical right, who claim to be all about economic freedom. They hate laws that restrain them in any way, especially environmental protections.
Libertarians' idea of liberty actually depends on economic inequality. It's their "human right". Economic freedom over liberty for all. Isn't that un-American?
"Aryeh Neier, founder of Human Rights Watch and its executive director for 12 years, doesn’t hide his contempt for the idea of economic equality as one of the key human rights. Neier is so opposed to the idea of economic equality that he even equates the very idea of economic equality and justice with oppression-economic rights to him are a violation of human rights, rather than essential human rights, thereby completely inverting traditional left thinking.
Here’s what Neier wrote in his memoir, Taking Liberties: “The concept of economic and social rights is profoundly undemocratic... Authoritarian power is probably a prerequisite for giving meaning to economic and social rights.”
Neier here is aping free-market libertarian mandarins like Friedrich von Hayek, or Hayek’s libertarian forefathers like William Graham Sumner, the robber baron mandarin and notorious laissez-faire Social Darwinist.
As with Neier, William Graham Sumner argued that liberty has an inverse relationship to economic equality; according to Sumner, the more economic equality, the less liberty; whereas the greater the inequality in a society, the more liberty its individuals enjoy.
It’s the fundamental equation underlying all libertarian ideology and politics-a robber baron’s ideology at heart."
thedailybanter.com/2012/06/the-quiet-extermination-of-labor-rights-from-human-rights/
"Government exists to spend. The purpose of government is to serve the general welfare of the citizens, not just the military-industrial complex and the financial class. Didn’t we have a stimulus, oh, eight years ago? It was tiny and has not been entirely spent. As Yellen implied, we need more spending of the non-military kind (what Barney Frank memorably called “weaponized Keynesianism” doesn’t stimulate)."
www.forbes.com/sites/leesheppard/2016/04/02/we-need-fiscal-policy/?fbclid=IwAR02l1AlZGMpapbTOdURjgRknx6Kai-24Z6fXBCXyBolgdgodvjSmYmXAdw#1c4e7dea8b40
"It is one thing to oppose intrusive government surveillance or the overreach of federal programs. It is another to call for the evisceration of government itself. Let’s put radical libertarianism into the dustbin of history, along with its cousin communism."
www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2013-09-05/libertarians-are-the-new-communists?fbclid=IwAR1VeYWTHq_06MQYGMbe_amAdgGctkC7uITs5nKIYuhIGMGcabNlLlDnZEA
MARC STEINER: So where does the money come from, then, to invest in infrastructure, in new businesses, and whatever else has to be invested in?
MICHAEL HUDSON: Well, banks don’t invest. That’s a myth. The pretense is that rescuing the banks rescued the economy. But the banks don’t make loans to the economy. Banks don’t make loans to fund factories. They don’t make loans for infrastructure. They make loans to buy assets already in place. They’re privatizing the structure to take it private, raise the rates the people have to pay for services.
Essentially they lend to raiders taking over corporations. They won’t help a corporation put in more equipment and hire more people, but they’ll lend to a raider to break up a corporation, downsize the labor force, smash it up and leave it a bankrupt shell. That’s the financial management plan. That’s what they teach in business schools.
So the financial management philosophy that we have is diametrically opposed to what’s needed for economic growth. That should be what people are talking about, because more and more economists are warning that given the rising debt ratios, there’s going to be another crisis. What we should be talking about when we look back on the anniversary of Lehman’s bankruptcy is how to handle the next crisis in a way that doesn’t bail out banks, that bails out the economy by writing down the debts.
If banks have bad debts, they’ve made bad loans. Banks used to be conservative and prudent. But if they make imprudent loans and they say, we don’t care the borrower can’t pay because we’ve sold the whole loan off to a pension fund or a German Landesbank, and somebody else is going to take the loss, you have to restructure the banking system and the financial management, and take it out of the hands of bankers to manage.
If you leave the Treasury Department and the Justice Department and the bank regulators in the hands of bankers, they’re going to loot the rest of the economy. They’re going to take everything they can. So you want someone who’s not a banker to actually do the regulation.
ua-cam.com/video/V17t8bJDcw0/v-deo.html
Do you see the cat...
Thanks for the link.
thank you
”Whether you're rich or poor, its nice to have money.”
By Al Capp, possibly America’s greatest humorist.
"Money doesn't care who has it."
A realist !!
Is he carpenter or mason. The knowledge is enlighting. Thank you.
He's been interesting for decades. His work is an American treasure.
How can you get a democracy back that never existed for most people?
It is truly stupefying that our society has dumbed down to the level where concepts such as Plutcoarcy are beyond the grasp'
most of ur citizens. We've coasted for decades following WWII cranking out goods with a lowly educated workforce. Now we have entrenched unfettered capitalism, that has thoroughly shaped our laws for their exclusive benefits. The working class has no clue
what is happening. IQ of the masses is the problem. it is impossible for the masses to grasp what is going on. Lapham's cynicism
is dead-on, and he is just one of many historians that are predicting the invariable decline of America. We can't get out of this mess
without radically changing our constitution. And that ain't gonna happen with an average voter IQ of 100.
It took Trump to remind us that half of the country has a double digit IQ . “ Think of how dumb the average American is -then remember that half of America is dumber than him “ - George Carlin .
The entire history of this country is comprised of the rich manipulating the voting dumb .
I'm not conviced the IQ is the problem. I rather think the brainwashing propaganda are the issue. Americans are brought up to believe their system of everything is the best, while in the thruth it is often below par.
"It was 1988 (exactly 30y ago). Trump was a leading man in the American celebrity circus."
But now most celebrities and corporations ABHORS TRUMP
@@rohiths3554 Point?
Yes. Isn't it awful that Trump was popular and loved by the common man instead of being a pompous elitist snob. The scandal of it all. We must create fraudulent charges and impeach him and remove his stench from our sacred respectable halls.
Education,Education,Education # Free.
While there’s a truth in what you’re saying, Lewis, regarding Democracy. I wonder if there hasn’t always been some skepticism - don’t we often do less of what we mean, because, then, there’s the reality of how to make democracy happen or work?
Is it so impossible, though?
I just remember that day at Powell’s Books, Portland, Oregon, having wanted to look up the word “anarchy” in an older published (mw) dictionary. And, at the same time, I wanted to look up “democracy”, where, Democritus is referenced.
If we could all live more like Democritus suggests, I can’t imagine how we couldn’t make Democracy a reality rather than a pursuit of one.
Anyone?
Both Trump voters, and Bernie voters realize this problem. They just have different solutions for it. But I bet they could work together on some issues.
Trump voters might have a vague inkling that "something is wrong", but are easily led away from the real problem by red herrings of various sorts. Their leadership is instrumental in leading them off a cliff with various stupid conspiracy theories. The truth is far more obvious and knowable than they think. They just have to be willing to deal in facts rather than fantasy, and be willing to see that Big Business is the motor driving the governmental corruption that they decry. Their knee-jerk pro-capitalism has conditioned them to see business magnates in a positive light. You'll never understand what's going on if you do that.
Wrong, Trump voters and Bernie voters both knew something is wrong.
Trump voters are stupid and they don’t know a solution so they turned to fascism which support corporations.
Bernie voters are also stupid, but their stupidity is knowing the problem and think their solution would work, which is an illusion.
@@royhuang9715 hi. I dont think we can tar all bernie supporters as both smart, seeing the problems, and stupidly deluded that they know how to fix it. Your highness, you, seem to think they are all deluded. Let them try before judging what the outcomes will be
@@clarkpalace if you are not stupid, then you’d knew Bernie’s solution wouldn’t work. Keynesian Economics fails to address the real issue, that capitalism depends on the poor get poorer and rich get richer for growth.
The core of capitalism is not able freedom or equality. The core of capitalism is inequality and slavery. Capitalism economy need to maintain a stream of desperate unemployed workers so the capitalists can exploit worker’s surplus value as profit. And capitalists need to keep that profit they exploited from their worker and reinvest back into the company expanding its business. That’s how capitalism economy grow but stealing.
However if you put a stop to that stealing, capitalists can’t reinvest in their company, thus can’t expand their business. You get a stagnant economy.
@@royhuang9715 if you participate in the economy on your own as i did for many years you get by without this insane need for growth Now that I am just a working stiff I sponge off other bigger capitalists. Meanwhile I luxuriate in the accumulated wealth of a lifetime. Bernie profits from a lifetime of his accumulated wealth. Not everyone is talented enough to run their own business or be their own senator
on Kavanaugh: apparently you simply can't FLUNK out of Yale Law school. so much for entitlement!
@Chait Singh the EPITOME of white privilege is Trump; he can do no wrong. still gots support. the real USA. rest is propaganda.
Old money has class, new money is tacky
Good talk
Democracies are ever the prey of powerful interests, from within and without. The King if Norway bought the Icelandic democratic republic.
A Patrician Republic has a better chance of enduring, as did the Roman Republic for some hundreds of years. A Patrician class with a close sense of their common interest is less susceptible to purchase from without and within, though not invulnerable, as Rome witnessed. But then we come dangerously near the inspiration for Fascism.
In the end, long before Charlemagne, Rome became an Empire run by German Generals for German Generals, and some other barbarian Generals.