As a guy raised in a trailer park there wasn't much in the way of an appreciation for history. But one thing I recall pretty clearly is every like 100 years or so the world, or some portion of it, finds the idea of eliminating Jews pretty compelling. So when the Jewish folks I know start telling me they are more nervous than usual, I tend to listen. I don't need a semester of education to see the rationale behind that worry. Great talk from these two. Love them both, and in my opinion they are some of the best people on earth to disagree with. :)
David Wolpe asked the question on my mind about Pinker’s book Enlightenment Now and I expected him to answer the way that he did. “Vermin who control the world.” Great phrase from Wolpe that led into an interesting question and then an interesting answer from Pinker. Sowell’s article is interesting. Love Pinker’s academic use of technical words like “jumbo jumbo!” And “Cockamamie.”
Mr. Pinker needs to see the film The Great Year it is about the Precession of the Equinoxes. The cycle declines from the higher age to a dark age and upward again to a higher age. Currently we have moved away from the dark age and on the upward arc to the next higher age. This cycle repeats at a higher level each time until whatever needs to be accomplished is and the cycles start over again. So Mr, Pinker check out The Great Year film.
Doubling of the average lifespan is more about fewer infants dying than it is about the average teenager looking forward to 50 more years, rather than 20 more years. (Not to disparage the fall in infant mortality. That is a good thing. It's just that the statistic might be giving people a distorted view of what life was like hundreds or thousands of years ago.)
muchos hablantes hoy en día se ha en reflejar más que conversos al judaismo como decendientes...pero la historia los científicos los estudiosos que el judaismo real biblico es semita de sangre arabe porque también los hebreos verdaderos fueron semitas hoy sangre arabe los hebreos los fenicios cananeos nacen en peninsula arabiga
@@jaialaiwarriorthe practical reason is to recognize the legitimization of a critique of statehood or statecraft that is not itself critique of religion.
@@peterg418 Jews were a people before they had any particular religion. If you think there's a "practical" reason to deprive them of political rights, whether to lead a government or to own land, just say so.
4 місяці тому
So sad, because they really believe what they say.
Come to Asbury Park. The Kingdom of Israel is here. All Orthodox synagogues and related Jewish organizations in USA (God's Country) are under the control of the Union of Orthodox Synagogues - Beit Din of America. A Dovid mishkan is here. The authentic Ahron Habrit is here. The authentic Menorah is here. I am here.
Not a usefull or intelligent conversation. Humans have certain inherent qualities which denied or repressed turns them into drivers of all of the deceit, mayhem and murder, individually or collectively that we witness. To blame or scapegoat religion is the easy way out.Rather, it seems like the easy way out but the "disease" remains within the individual untill raised to consciousness and integrated.
I agree with the main points that Pinker and Wolpe raise, with the exception that I think Pinker's evaluation of 'religion' is wrong. If one speaks of 'religion' in the sense of belief systems, it can lead people to do the best of things and the worst. But simple secularism does not seem to have fared any better, if one takes a crude survey of recent history (it seems surprising that Pinker does not address this - perhaps he does somewhere else). I think Pinker is rather naive in viewing religion the way a modern philosopher would. More important is speaking of religion in terms of traditions and sub-traditions, since those encompass practices and formative experiences of an individual or group in addition to the propositions they seemingly believe in. Speaking of traditions allows one to properly consider important historical context for why people thought and acted the way they did as well as realistically envision how we can constitute society in the future. This is a humanistic way of thinking somewhat at odds with how Pinker approaches the study of the human past as well as in his advice about what to do now. While some of his basic arguments (i.e. from a quantitative point of view humanity has morally progressed) are true as such, they actually come with assumptions or consequences which Pinker doesn't seem to acknowledge sufficiently. One of the clearest is that there actually is no reason to exclude in the future a dramatic change either in how we characterize our own quality of life or an objective qualitative change in it (whether by nuclear war, climate catastrophe, or resource shortage). This is because there is no reason why the trajectory Pinker outlines follows a simply mathematical law. Humans really could decide to destroy themselves, including those in advanced liberal countries. I am certainly not dismissing Pinker's basic conclusions, but I think they need to be put in context and explored further so that they mesh better with what a more humanistic evaluation would give. Beyond this, I think one has to see the limitations of the traditional liberal attitude Pinker expresses in light of not just current problems in the world, but those of practically any other age. This is best articulated by people like Chris Hedges and Cornel West, who not only caution against being too influenced by arguments about long-range human progress and moral advancement, but also emphasize that traditional liberalism is not enough to deal with the most pressing crises of the world. Hedges notes how there is a kind of 'divine madness' about many of those who commit themselves to just causes out of hope rather than mundane rational reflection. Pinker would observe that this could characterize just as much a suicide bomber or apocalyptic zealot, but Hedges importantly notes that the good versions of those who are touched by this madness remember their own fallibility and potential for demonizing the other. I suppose that Pinker's insisting that people just be more rational is a way to theoretically address belief in one's infallibility, but this is both deceptive and hollow as is. Many of the institutions and individuals causing harm in the world are not actually subject to rational persuasion. You really cannot just sit down and talk to them (at least in time to prevent the evil). It simply takes a counterforce motivating people to stand up against the evil which is not simply rooted in rationality. I suppose Pinker would agree with this in the abstract, but again, he never seems to acknowledge this enough to sound convincing. That, too, is part of the limitation of traditional liberalism - the lip service given to how we 'ought' to be doing something but the lack of a tradition or established resources for backing up that gesture.
I was deeply disappointed by this discussion. The elite institution this discussion took place at has a student body which denied the horrible massacre of October 7 in Israel and instead supported a fanatical fundamentalist terror organization Hamas whose aim is genocide of all the Jewish people. There is already discrimination against Jewish applicants to Harvard and other elite institutions in the name of Wokeness. You do not enter these institutions on the basis of merit anymore but on the basis of 'identity'. No one spoke to the exclusion of Jews from the Left because the Liberal Left the Old Left does not exist and has been taken over by a narrow-miinded intolerant radical left. Pinker and Rabbi Wolpe do not see what has already happened and how severe the attacks on the Jews are already in America. Of course they do not even mention radical Islam and the strange alliance of violent bully culture Muslim students with the radical Left. I could go on and on here. But one more point. No one pointed out the virtues of Israel the only democratic state in the Middle East and the only ones which provide opportunities for its Muslim citizens to have the educational and professional opportunities of a free society. There was no expression of outrage at what happened on October 7 and nothing like the strong defense of Israel one would have expected of those who care about the Jewish people and the only Jewish state in the world.
Come to Asbury Park. The Kingdom of Israel is here. All Orthodox synagogues and related Jewish organizations in USA (God's Country) are under the control of the Union of Orthodox Synagogues - Beit Din of America. A Dovid mishkan is here. The authentic Ahron Habrit is here. The authentic Menorah is here. I am here.
Steven Pinker like Chomsky need to GO --- I am sick of these two (who both yet again are? Jewish) -- Their associations with Jeffrey Epstein needs the NEED TO GO AWAY.
I love this duet ❤
Wonderful to listen to, and two individuals who always give me hope, at a time where mass hysteria appears, once more, the currency of the day.
As a guy raised in a trailer park there wasn't much in the way of an appreciation for history. But one thing I recall pretty clearly is every like 100 years or so the world, or some portion of it, finds the idea of eliminating Jews pretty compelling. So when the Jewish folks I know start telling me they are more nervous than usual, I tend to listen. I don't need a semester of education to see the rationale behind that worry. Great talk from these two. Love them both, and in my opinion they are some of the best people on earth to disagree with. :)
David Wolpe asked the question on my mind about Pinker’s book Enlightenment Now and I expected him to answer the way that he did. “Vermin who control the world.” Great phrase from Wolpe that led into an interesting question and then an interesting answer from Pinker.
Sowell’s article is interesting.
Love Pinker’s academic use of technical words like “jumbo jumbo!” And “Cockamamie.”
guys, do something about harvard and fast!
Mr. Pinker needs to see the film The Great Year it is about the Precession of the Equinoxes. The cycle declines from the higher age to a dark age and upward again to a higher age. Currently we have moved away from the dark age and on the upward arc to the next higher age. This cycle repeats at a higher level each time until whatever needs to be accomplished is and the cycles start over again. So Mr, Pinker check out The Great Year film.
They're both good fellas
Amazing effort to make such a poor quality recording in this day and age
Oh stop your whining. Its fine
Ez a beszélgetés bearanyozta az estémet! Greetings from Hungary!
What do you think about healing after an NDE?
Realllly frustrating that the audio quality is so poor…..
Doubling of the average lifespan is more about fewer infants dying than it is about the average teenager looking forward to 50 more years, rather than 20 more years. (Not to disparage the fall in infant mortality. That is a good thing. It's just that the statistic might be giving people a distorted view of what life was like hundreds or thousands of years ago.)
SDS pls talk about this Rabbi, I think every era has its trend and necessity.
In Communism also intellectuals were under under threat. For some reason there is a fear and resentment of intellectuals.
muchos hablantes hoy en día se ha en reflejar más que conversos al judaismo como decendientes...pero la historia los científicos los estudiosos que el judaismo real biblico es semita de sangre arabe porque también los hebreos verdaderos fueron semitas hoy sangre arabe los hebreos los fenicios cananeos nacen en peninsula arabiga
Just started watching. I hope they ask if anti-zionism can be divorced from antisemitism.
Theoretically perhaps but not for any practical reason.
@@jaialaiwarriorthe practical reason is to recognize the legitimization of a critique of statehood or statecraft that is not itself critique of religion.
@@peterg418 Jews were a people before they had any particular religion. If you think there's a "practical" reason to deprive them of political rights, whether to lead a government or to own land, just say so.
So sad, because they really believe what they say.
Please elaborate on where Pinker is wrong and how you know that.
Jew is an ethnic group. It is lame discussion to bring everything to religion.
الدِّين المعاملة
💜🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸💜
Hey congrats on that comment, genius
the rabbi may be from harvard, but he exposes the same lame arguments that you can find in any "does god exist?" debate from the religious stance.
this comment is garbage. I watched the whole thing and there was no such argument.
Come to Asbury Park. The Kingdom of Israel is here. All Orthodox synagogues and related Jewish organizations in USA (God's Country) are under the control of the Union of Orthodox Synagogues - Beit Din of America. A Dovid mishkan is here. The authentic Ahron Habrit is here. The authentic Menorah is here. I am here.
Not a usefull or intelligent conversation. Humans have certain inherent qualities which denied or repressed turns them into drivers of all of the deceit, mayhem and murder, individually or collectively that we witness. To blame or scapegoat religion is the easy way out.Rather, it seems like the easy way out but the "disease" remains within the individual untill raised to consciousness and integrated.
Are you religious?
I agree with the main points that Pinker and Wolpe raise, with the exception that I think Pinker's evaluation of 'religion' is wrong. If one speaks of 'religion' in the sense of belief systems, it can lead people to do the best of things and the worst. But simple secularism does not seem to have fared any better, if one takes a crude survey of recent history (it seems surprising that Pinker does not address this - perhaps he does somewhere else). I think Pinker is rather naive in viewing religion the way a modern philosopher would. More important is speaking of religion in terms of traditions and sub-traditions, since those encompass practices and formative experiences of an individual or group in addition to the propositions they seemingly believe in. Speaking of traditions allows one to properly consider important historical context for why people thought and acted the way they did as well as realistically envision how we can constitute society in the future. This is a humanistic way of thinking somewhat at odds with how Pinker approaches the study of the human past as well as in his advice about what to do now. While some of his basic arguments (i.e. from a quantitative point of view humanity has morally progressed) are true as such, they actually come with assumptions or consequences which Pinker doesn't seem to acknowledge sufficiently. One of the clearest is that there actually is no reason to exclude in the future a dramatic change either in how we characterize our own quality of life or an objective qualitative change in it (whether by nuclear war, climate catastrophe, or resource shortage). This is because there is no reason why the trajectory Pinker outlines follows a simply mathematical law. Humans really could decide to destroy themselves, including those in advanced liberal countries. I am certainly not dismissing Pinker's basic conclusions, but I think they need to be put in context and explored further so that they mesh better with what a more humanistic evaluation would give.
Beyond this, I think one has to see the limitations of the traditional liberal attitude Pinker expresses in light of not just current problems in the world, but those of practically any other age. This is best articulated by people like Chris Hedges and Cornel West, who not only caution against being too influenced by arguments about long-range human progress and moral advancement, but also emphasize that traditional liberalism is not enough to deal with the most pressing crises of the world. Hedges notes how there is a kind of 'divine madness' about many of those who commit themselves to just causes out of hope rather than mundane rational reflection. Pinker would observe that this could characterize just as much a suicide bomber or apocalyptic zealot, but Hedges importantly notes that the good versions of those who are touched by this madness remember their own fallibility and potential for demonizing the other. I suppose that Pinker's insisting that people just be more rational is a way to theoretically address belief in one's infallibility, but this is both deceptive and hollow as is. Many of the institutions and individuals causing harm in the world are not actually subject to rational persuasion. You really cannot just sit down and talk to them (at least in time to prevent the evil). It simply takes a counterforce motivating people to stand up against the evil which is not simply rooted in rationality. I suppose Pinker would agree with this in the abstract, but again, he never seems to acknowledge this enough to sound convincing. That, too, is part of the limitation of traditional liberalism - the lip service given to how we 'ought' to be doing something but the lack of a tradition or established resources for backing up that gesture.
It's a mistake to compare religion to secularism. Secularism is not a belief system.
Steven *Lolitta Express* Pinker!
Carlos Conspiracy Dangerfield!
I was deeply disappointed by this discussion. The elite institution this discussion took place at has a student body which denied the horrible massacre of October 7 in Israel and instead supported a fanatical fundamentalist terror organization Hamas whose aim is genocide of all the Jewish people. There is already discrimination against Jewish applicants to Harvard and other elite institutions in the name of Wokeness. You do not enter these institutions on the basis of merit anymore but on the basis of 'identity'. No one spoke to the exclusion of Jews from the Left because the Liberal Left the Old Left does not exist and has been taken over by a narrow-miinded intolerant radical left. Pinker and Rabbi Wolpe do not see what has already happened and how severe the attacks on the Jews are already in America. Of course they do not even mention radical Islam and the strange alliance of violent bully culture Muslim students with the radical Left. I could go on and on here. But one more point. No one pointed out the virtues of Israel the only democratic state in the Middle East and the only ones which provide opportunities for its Muslim citizens to have the educational and professional opportunities of a free society. There was no expression of outrage at what happened on October 7 and nothing like the strong defense of Israel one would have expected of those who care about the Jewish people and the only Jewish state in the world.
Come to Asbury Park. The Kingdom of Israel is here. All Orthodox synagogues and related Jewish organizations in USA (God's Country) are under the control of the Union of Orthodox Synagogues - Beit Din of America. A Dovid mishkan is here. The authentic Ahron Habrit is here. The authentic Menorah is here. I am here.
For your own safety leave the State of Israel and do not enter therein.
Steven Pinker like Chomsky need to GO --- I am sick of these two (who both yet again are? Jewish) -- Their associations with Jeffrey Epstein needs the NEED TO GO AWAY.
What evidence do you have of anything inappropriate?
@@Vlasko60evidence means nothing to fuzzy thinkers like him