Best thing about Wenwu is that he believes that family and love is his true way out of a life full of violence. He was a bad guy who was already on his way towards redemption RIGHT OFF THE BAT, unlike most other stories where redemption comes in the end. It’s a very human motive overall and his succumbing to his lost cause was such a sad thing to watch. It’s like he was destined for this life despite his wanting to reform. Such a tragic grounded villain overall
I was very happy when it turned out he wasn't just evil for the sake of evil & actually wanted his children to help rescue his wife. It was refreshing to have a dad that, even though he was evil & harsh, loved his wife & cared for his children. He clearly loved his wife more but hey, better then Malekeith or the dude from Doctor Strange lol
Apparently in the comic released for the Dr. Strange villain, he has a similar background. His wife or family died and he wanted to fix it through having eternal life, which led him to dormammu. Unfortunately, they didn't portray that in the movie at all.
@@Architect_Art_Vandelay As a small correction: they don't give it enough ROOM in Doctor Strange. They do straight up tell us in the movie that he came to Kamar-Taj having lost everyone he'd ever loved, and then he spends the rest of the film talking about how he wants to move the world beyond death. They just only mention the REASON one time, and we never get to see him reflect on his lost family all that much.
@@NandovMovies are you gonna do a Mandarin is not Mandarin vid, it because MCU Mandarin is really a combination of the Mandarin and Fu Manchu (who in the Comics is Shang Chi's Dad but the Studio either/both didn't have the rights or/and Fu Manchu's problematic nature though you can argue some of that also applies to Mandarin.)
@@NandovMovies well the fruit was named after the title. But it also makes sense in a different way that he's offended by the title. He is Not a courtier/beraucrat. (cause that's what mandarins were).
@@NandovMovies imagine an American villain called “The Burger” after typing that I realized I used a bad example and that would be a great villain name
After Iron Man 3, I always just assumed that "the Mandarin" was like an urban legend like the Illuminati that Killian hijacked for his own purposes without realising that it wasn't an urban legend, and just resolved the continuity that way.
@@DeadmanInc336 I know....that's why I'm hoping they do another movie between Civil War and Infinity War where we get a proper Iron Man vs Mandarin bout.
@@Bobomb70 or maybe just a 45 minute animated short in the same animation style as What If?. Maybe one that takes place during the five months after Thanos was killed.
@@Bobomb70 someone on Reddit pitched the idea of a 45 minute animated short in which Tony hears a rumor about Makluan technology somewhere in China. Thinking this could be a lead to bringing everyone back from the Snap, Tony investigates. This leads him into a confrontation with Wenwu and the Ten Rings in which Tony just barely survives. He almost died fighting Thanos, he almost wasted away drifting away in space, and he just barely managed to get by the skin of his teeth fighting Wenwu. So these repeated near death experiences is what leads to Tony hanging it up for several months to start a family with Pepper.
Yeah "Hail to the king" alludes to that actually with a assassin saying to Trevor that the real "mandarin" isn't happy that Killian has been steeling his name.
Marvel villains tend to have a "I want power and I'll die trying!!", but Wenwu was the only villain who was fighting to save his wife. When he realized it wasn't his wife, and that he was actually fooled by a demon, you can tell Wenwu lost the will to fight and live on. That's incredibly rare for Marvel; for a villain to be so emotionally drained that they lose the will to continue.
Another favorite MCU villain of mine probably my favorite that gets underated is Baron Zemo , his family is killed indirectly by the avengers trying to stop Ultron and he also gets them to fight amongst each other and his impact is still felt up to the falcon and winter soldier My top 5 favorite MCU villains are.. 1. Baron Zemo 2. Wenwu 3. Thanos 4. Killmonger 5. Vulture
In light of Tony Leang's acting with his eyes, you should watch a video here in UA-cam on how he got to develop this style of acting. It's very insightful.
in the film, that boy is an old man who Wenwu out aged by thousands of years, lol! The actor is Yuen Wah, who played the landlord with flexible martial art skills in Kung Fu Hustle which its movie poster was featured in Shang-Chi’s room.
I'm kind of disappointed they didn't translate the line after that so well. The English sub just says "I've lived ten times as long as you", but in Mandarin, he literally says "I've eaten more years than you've eaten meals", which is way more badass.
@@howardmao3331 actually I’m pretty sure the phrase is “I’ve eaten more salt than you have rice”, unless they tweaked it for the movie. It’s a pretty common Chinese saying
He really wasn’t even a villain to me in the story. He gave up his life for his wife and kids. He saw his wife murdered and trained his son to protect himself and the family. Both of his kids ran out on him while he was grieving and still let them live their lives. He only brought them back cause he thought his wife was coming back and he wanted his kids to see their mother. He only resorted to violence when the village refused because he thought his wife was trapped. Amazing written and portrayed character, but felt like his “villain” role was very forced.
This film spoke to me. My mother passed in June so I FELT this film. The longing to see someone who you can't is so strong that if there was even a chance, I would take it. Another thing is that this film is kind of Destiny 2 Forsaken. Person driven by grief and longing tricked by a dragon into freeing it from a mysterious place. And I love Destiny! Additionally, I loved Wenwu. I could tell he was one of my favourites because the entire of act 1, I was waiting to see him show up again. 9/10. One of my top 10 marvel films!
there is no dance kungfu. Wenwu's wife and wenwu's wife's sister's Chinese martial art style is called Tai Chi. Wenwu's chinese martial art style is called Wing Chun, the same used by Donny Yen in Ip Man. This thing is also explained in one of New Rockstar video explaining about Shang Chi.
@@mayaparamita2254 sorry I don't know much about kung fu . I respect that the creators put some great elements into this movie.i didn't watch the full new Rockstars video
In east/south-east asian cinema, a lot of fight scene is use to tell emotion of the fighters. That's why the fight scene between Wenwu and Li feels so romantic
I think what wenwu said about his wife is inside the cage is true. That cage maybe a portal to another universe or something. If Wanda can hear her kids and find them alive, so is wenwu and wenwu's wife.
I was a little disappointed that the Ten Rings weapon didn't do more. However your take isn't bad. It leaves room for the next villain to come in and tell Shang-Chi he's not using them to their dull potential.
I don't think that would have come out in conversation. Shang-chi's mother wouldn't have had anything to warn Wenwui about because she left her life in the village behind.
@@tricksalot2 you should check his 80s series Heavenly Sword and Dragon Sabre. It's very famous even in non chinese speaking country like Indonesia. Has been played multiple times over and over again in channel TV here through out the 90s and 2000s.
One of the things I like about Wenwu is that they literally made a list of Yellow Peril tropes to make sure that they avoided or subverted every single one of them. That's part of how they got a character with this much depth.
I was fresh off rewatching Castlevania when I saw Shang-Chi and Wenwu felt so similar to Dracula, one of my other all time favorite villains. Both made so well, so much emotional weight to them.
Wenwu not moving on from his wife's memory is just like how Katy's grandma not moving on , like Katy's mother says moving on is American way and not ours
I think everything you've mentioned is 100% true and elevated by the brilliant Tony Leung. With the slightest look he is able to convey sadness, anger, love, grief etc. You look at him and immediately understand what he's going through and really feel for him. His actions may be extreme, but his motivation is pure.
My headcanon for all the multiple 'mandarins' is that 'The Mandarin' is just a blanket name you give when youre trying to do something and hide your identity. For example, before Hydra publicised that they were back in Winter Soldier, maybe they went by 'The Mandarin' to prevent themselves from being caught. They went by this title to try and take down Iron Man before the avengers even assembled. This could also explain the appearance of the guy with the Ten Rings tattoo in Ant Man, he was working for someone else but used the Ten Rings as a disguise.
I’ve only ever heard of “Fu Man Chu” from Phineas and Ferb. Dr. Doofenshmirtz was just sitting on his couch while holding his “Mustache-inator” and pretending to fire it. He was all like: “Pew! A Handlebar! Pew! Fu Man Chu!” I used to hear that and was like “That’s not a mustache, that’s a kung fu move.”
I remember coming away from this movie thinking "Besides the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Dragon Ball Z, and Marvel stuff I like about this, there is something special about this experience". The main characters and their supports, the remake of the Ten Rings and their wielder, the humanity behind each character just made me smile. I need more of this character what he brought to the MCU in the other movies. I will let Love and Thunder slide because it's narrated by Korg (who is as reliable as Deadpool or the Joker as storytellers for accuracy) but they need more of this.
This is why I was disappointed with how the conflict at the end boiled down to Wenwu being tricked and Shang Chi stopping him. I think if they had expanded on Wenwu’s grudge against Ta Lo and the intra-family resentment then it would’ve been even better.
Agreed, they set up all of this backstory and character arcs just to have some big monster battle in 3rd act that wasn't really brought up until the 3rd act😂. But hey.... it's still a Marvel movie
It honestly breaks me deep inside, that Wenwu might've realized that her wife is definitely dead and that it's his guilt that's pushing him forward with the invasion.
He did have a good story line and Tony Leung played him to perfection. But I have to disagree on that he’s the best marvel villain ever. We don’t know much about he’s back story and character development. My greatest marvel villain of all time is and always will be magneto.
They couldn't have picked a better actor for the Mandarin. I know vaguely about Mr. Leung's work but I'm gonna try and watch Internal Affairs stat. I really hope they gonna find a way to bring him back.
I'm so jealous of everyone who are just discovering his amazing filmography - I wish i could go back in time and experience a lot of those movies for the first time again! Along with Infernal Affairs i'd highly reccomend the work he did with Ang Lee, John Woo, Hou Hsiao-Hsien and especially Wong Kar-wai.
I loved Tony Leung in Infernal Affairs. One of the best films in history that Hollywood bought the story so they could remake an american version of the same story.
Wenwu also believed his wife was banished from the village too when it was just him, which reveals his side of the story to be a bit less credible. If his wife told him about the gate and the dragon he may have not believed it.
yeah it is not often that I cry for the death of the villain in a movie, especially a marvel one. I felt that the pacing was slower than other marvel moview in the beginning but it was instrumental in building up that emotion
Given the awesomeness of Tony Leung, I coulda done with a mini-series of Wenwu, going over how he got the rings and the highlights of his thousands of years of life leading up to his falling in love with Li as a lead up to Shang Chi. This is a character who would benefit from being fleshed out to the enormous benefit of the MCU as a whole.
I like the movie, but i just couldn't get past the ten bracelets. Maybe if each one did a different specific thing and could be used simultaneously for those different specific purposes...but just ten rings that do whatever the plot needs to happen at that time was just a bit generic.
I liked him, but didn't like how there was an 'extra threat' thrusted into the third act. For me the film suffers from exposition of 'great battles that happened centuries ago', where the plot screeches to a halt so the main character can have what sounds like the plot of a different movie explained to them ahead of the final battle
ngl with you mentioning ivankov's involvement with the ten rings. Makes me wonder if his original electic whips were based on Wenwu's ten rings in-universe
Not to nitpick (I don't have a podcast called "mostly nitpicking," after all), but I don't think that just anyone can use the ten rings. I think right before Shang got them, the flashbacks strongly implied that the martial arts his mother had been teaching him were _compatible_ with the rings, sort of like "ring bending." It'd be like training gun katas all day without ever holding an actual gun, but put guns in your hands and suddenly it's Matrix time. Now maybe anyone could get _some_ action out of them, but I doubt they could seize control of them or do some of the cooler effects. I also don't think that they would just start doing new stuff, like turning into a shield if Cap got them. I think for other people the best they could do is just stack them on the wrists and hit harder, or just shoot them like boomerangs.
Without getting too nitpicky 😏, I’d challenge your understanding of Shang Chi’s motivations for leaving his family and his history (13:30ish). It’s unfortunately not highlighted well in the movie, so it’s easy to overlook, but I think his conversation with Katy toward the end is really what it all boils down to: he can’t look his sister or dead mother (figuratively, of course) in the eye because he actively followed in his father’s murderous footsteps when he took vengeance for her death. Furthermore, it’s a guilt and and fear of being like his father that drives him to abandon all that Wenwu taught him of martial arts as well. That’s why it’s so important that his aunt encourages him to embrace the fact that he has both his parents in him; it’s only in facing the failures they left to him and synthesizing the strengths they gave to him that Shang Chi can fully come to life and contribute to his family and the people around him-i.e., save the world. I’m sorry if this is a rehash of anything someone else said, but I wanted to put it out there.
I have to admit, Wenwu made the film amazing. Tony Leung really pulled off the whole "single father with two estranged children trying to revive his wife, no matter what it takes" of his character, how falling in love, even years after his beloved's death, has mellowed him out, but that doesn't mean that he's not dangerous.
Wenwu is DEFINITELY up there in the top tier of MCU villains. My top list personally would be: 1. Thanos 2. Wenwu 3. Kilmonger 4. Loki 5. Baron Zeno 6. Vulture 7. Mysterio
YESS he is top 3 villain imo. However I really wish they made a different way of resolving the end: where instead of the dragon having “tricked” him into freeing it, his wife WAS actually behind the gate and that is like an afterlife/heaven for the culture which is why the village protected it and wouldnt let him destroy their version of afterlife. I feel like the movie builds up how wenwu is very smart, careful, and tactical, so it would be more satisfying imo if instead of being gullible to fall for the dragons trick, he was actually right about his wife.
(Note, I am asian) I saw a meme before this movie came out that said something like “It’s fitting that for Marvel’s first Asian lead that the main villain is a disappointed parent.” Seriously though I thought Wenwu was a great villain, and yeah this movie was great.
I dunno if the timeline matches up but I assume that when Wenwu retired to have a family he disbanded the ten rings & the remnants of the organization scattered. Killian may have heard ghost stories if the secret organization & tracked down disgruntled former members who contacted fellow former members & formed this new ten rings under Killians command. He may have been inspired by their stories of their charismatic wise but ruthless Asian leader who then retired so Killian modeled his puppet leader on Wenwu & named him Mandarin. The question is when exactly in MCU timeline did Wenwu return to business & why didn’t he track down this pretender organization to teach them a lesson? Was he content to watch them fumble & lose to the likes of Iron man?
I hate how people make fun of the "rings" just because they're bracelets. First of all, they're still rings because that's a shape. Second, literal finger rings would have been the LAMEST THING ever. These bracers are 100 percent the most amazing thing
Ehh I really don't agree with him being the best villain. I truly don't get his motivation. He was presented as way too smart to be tricked by the demon dragon, especially when he literally sees its minions escaping the gate. I don't know, there was just something missing for me in his motivations
@@maxcoffee7607 Yeah but that's why I don't think he's a strong villain. I only believe he continues to do what he does because the movie needed a villain
@@e443productions9 I'm agreeing with you. I don't think he was a great villain just because "he loved his wife". He's probably smart enough to realize he's being tricked, but the movie needed a villain so they made him oblivious
His wife literally said "love is blind" in the flashback, Wenwu wasn't "smart" anymore when he was blinded by a hopeless love. On the other hand, most people (but not all because you exist) want to save/resurrect their dead beloved ones, so his motivation resonated with a lot of audiences.
You state in the video that Trevor Slattery (Ben Kingsley) is white. While the character of Slattery may indeed be white, I thought it was fair to point out that Kingsley is half-Indian.
@@NandovMovies Fair enough. In my headcanon, Killian hired an actor of partial Indian descent in order to stoke the xenophobia and fear. I think this further adds to Killian's opportunistic exploitation of the mainstream media.
To me, this is one of the most wasted villains i've ever seen. There are moments in the movie that seem to develop him (like when he meets his wife, or when Shang-Chi tells him that the voice he hears is not real) but just when it gets interesting, the movie just moves on. The potential is there, like all the points that you mentioned, but they barely appear. I feel that you can only appreciate this villain when you analyze him a lot, because if he was porperly fleshed out it wouldn't be necessary. He's definitely better than most MCU villains, but he had the potential to be way better.
I think Wen Wu's wife could have told him about the dragon but given how strong his grief was after she died he'd still believe that it was her because he wants to.
Tony Leung's acting with his eyes is so kickass! Especially the first time he gets his ass kicked and thrown into the water. The sigh when he realizes he's met his match and she's beautiful!
For most chinese at this point, it is not even surprise to see Tony Leung outshined everyone else in the same set. He is equivalent to Leonardo DiCaprio status in the asia market for decades. So what so surprised about that, westerner?
I also liked the scene when Shang-Chi, Xialing and Katy were brought to the Ten Rings compound. You could see the pride and happiness in Wenwu's eyes when he told his men that his son was home. Ahhhh, Tony Leung, I'm falling in love with this man. You should watch a video in UA-cam on how Tony act with his eyes. It's very insightful.
Wenwu is a person. Immortal, virtually unbeatable, but still a person. I refuse to believe they could cast a better man for the job than Mr. Tony Leung.
they couldn't because Tony Leung didn't just play Wenwu, he worked closely with Feige and Cretton to re-invented the character of Wenwu. And his acting level is just perfection.
I like the fact that even during his evil conquering days he was content with his own hidden little empire. He wasn’t arrogant like Killmonger or any other conquest driven villains to think he could take on the whole world. He’s stayed under the radar this whole time & only surfaced big to resurrect his wife.
No wonder a number of the fights in Shang-Chi felt like I was watching an old school Jackie Chan martial arts movie. The fight in the bus and the fight in the scaffolding had the energy and crazy combat of Jackie Chan in his hey day. People from Jackie Chan's old stunt team worked on this movie and it really shows.
Just seeing Shang Chi using enviroment and enemy,s clothes gave me Jackie Chan vibes. Way to go Marvel, creators of MK 2021 should be ashamed with their uninspired choreography and awful editing.
Best thing about Wenwu is that he believes that family and love is his true way out of a life full of violence. He was a bad guy who was already on his way towards redemption RIGHT OFF THE BAT, unlike most other stories where redemption comes in the end. It’s a very human motive overall and his succumbing to his lost cause was such a sad thing to watch. It’s like he was destined for this life despite his wanting to reform. Such a tragic grounded villain overall
I was very happy when it turned out he wasn't just evil for the sake of evil & actually wanted his children to help rescue his wife. It was refreshing to have a dad that, even though he was evil & harsh, loved his wife & cared for his children. He clearly loved his wife more but hey, better then Malekeith or the dude from Doctor Strange lol
Exactly
Apparently in the comic released for the Dr. Strange villain, he has a similar background. His wife or family died and he wanted to fix it through having eternal life, which led him to dormammu. Unfortunately, they didn't portray that in the movie at all.
@@Architect_Art_Vandelay That honestly sounds pretty interesting
@@Architect_Art_Vandelay As a small correction: they don't give it enough ROOM in Doctor Strange. They do straight up tell us in the movie that he came to Kamar-Taj having lost everyone he'd ever loved, and then he spends the rest of the film talking about how he wants to move the world beyond death. They just only mention the REASON one time, and we never get to see him reflect on his lost family all that much.
@@NandovMovies are you gonna do a Mandarin is not Mandarin vid, it because MCU Mandarin is really a combination of the Mandarin and Fu Manchu (who in the Comics is Shang Chi's Dad but the Studio either/both didn't have the rights or/and Fu Manchu's problematic nature though you can argue some of that also applies to Mandarin.)
100% agree, and I love the scene where they make fun of the name “Mandarin” especially
That's be my reaction if someone named me after an orange. 🍊
@@NandovMovies well the fruit was named after the title. But it also makes sense in a different way that he's offended by the title. He is Not a courtier/beraucrat. (cause that's what mandarins were).
@@NandovMovies imagine an American villain called “The Burger” after typing that I realized I used a bad example and that would be a great villain name
@@NandovMovies I think more people associate the word "Mandarin" with China's official dialect rather than the orange variety.
@@public_cooper maybe the father of a Brock Lesnar-esque superhero?
After Iron Man 3, I always just assumed that "the Mandarin" was like an urban legend like the Illuminati that Killian hijacked for his own purposes without realising that it wasn't an urban legend, and just resolved the continuity that way.
Imagine had we gotten Wen Wu earlier on in the MCU and him tangling with Tony Stark.
@@DeadmanInc336 I know....that's why I'm hoping they do another movie between Civil War and Infinity War where we get a proper Iron Man vs Mandarin bout.
@@Bobomb70 or maybe just a 45 minute animated short in the same animation style as What If?. Maybe one that takes place during the five months after Thanos was killed.
@@Bobomb70 someone on Reddit pitched the idea of a 45 minute animated short in which Tony hears a rumor about Makluan technology somewhere in China. Thinking this could be a lead to bringing everyone back from the Snap, Tony investigates. This leads him into a confrontation with Wenwu and the Ten Rings in which Tony just barely survives. He almost died fighting Thanos, he almost wasted away drifting away in space, and he just barely managed to get by the skin of his teeth fighting Wenwu. So these repeated near death experiences is what leads to Tony hanging it up for several months to start a family with Pepper.
Yeah "Hail to the king" alludes to that actually with a assassin saying to Trevor that the real "mandarin" isn't happy that Killian has been steeling his name.
Marvel villains tend to have a "I want power and I'll die trying!!", but Wenwu was the only villain who was fighting to save his wife. When he realized it wasn't his wife, and that he was actually fooled by a demon, you can tell Wenwu lost the will to fight and live on. That's incredibly rare for Marvel; for a villain to be so emotionally drained that they lose the will to continue.
The path of the tyrant's "fall into abyss" arc done perfectly
His story and struggle made me cry tbh. Its like I wasn't watching a super hero movie but a family story and a guy driven by lost.
"loss"
Another favorite MCU villain of mine probably my favorite that gets underated is Baron Zemo , his family is killed indirectly by the avengers trying to stop Ultron and he also gets them to fight amongst each other and his impact is still felt up to the falcon and winter soldier
My top 5 favorite MCU villains are..
1. Baron Zemo
2. Wenwu
3. Thanos
4. Killmonger
5. Vulture
@@unrepentantoffender188 thanks 😊 it trips me all the time.
In light of Tony Leang's acting with his eyes, you should watch a video here in UA-cam on how he got to develop this style of acting. It's very insightful.
link?
@@dietman ua-cam.com/video/IUwsTHGY4Ms/v-deo.html
Accented Cinema?
@@Yuunarichu Yup
Wenwu is the best mcu antagonist. Tony Leung deserves an Oscar nomination for his performance.
“Be careful how you speak to Mii boy.”
- Xu WenWu while playing Mario Kart Wii with his son Shang-Chi.
In an alternate universe... ;_;
in the film, that boy is an old man who Wenwu out aged by thousands of years, lol! The actor is Yuen Wah, who played the landlord with flexible martial art skills in Kung Fu Hustle which its movie poster was featured in Shang-Chi’s room.
I'm kind of disappointed they didn't translate the line after that so well. The English sub just says "I've lived ten times as long as you", but in Mandarin, he literally says "I've eaten more years than you've eaten meals", which is way more badass.
@@howardmao3331 actually I’m pretty sure the phrase is “I’ve eaten more salt than you have rice”, unless they tweaked it for the movie. It’s a pretty common Chinese saying
He really wasn’t even a villain to me in the story. He gave up his life for his wife and kids. He saw his wife murdered and trained his son to protect himself and the family. Both of his kids ran out on him while he was grieving and still let them live their lives. He only brought them back cause he thought his wife was coming back and he wanted his kids to see their mother. He only resorted to violence when the village refused because he thought his wife was trapped. Amazing written and portrayed character, but felt like his “villain” role was very forced.
Like Joker
Where was it forced?
This film spoke to me.
My mother passed in June so I FELT this film. The longing to see someone who you can't is so strong that if there was even a chance, I would take it.
Another thing is that this film is kind of Destiny 2 Forsaken. Person driven by grief and longing tricked by a dragon into freeing it from a mysterious place. And I love Destiny!
Additionally, I loved Wenwu. I could tell he was one of my favourites because the entire of act 1, I was waiting to see him show up again.
9/10. One of my top 10 marvel films!
I’m sorry for your loss
That dance kung fu was so romantic.
there is no dance kungfu. Wenwu's wife and wenwu's wife's sister's Chinese martial art style is called Tai Chi. Wenwu's chinese martial art style is called Wing Chun, the same used by Donny Yen in Ip Man. This thing is also explained in one of New Rockstar video explaining about Shang Chi.
@@mayaparamita2254 sorry I don't know much about kung fu . I respect that the creators put some great elements into this movie.i didn't watch the full new Rockstars video
In east/south-east asian cinema, a lot of fight scene is use to tell emotion of the fighters. That's why the fight scene between Wenwu and Li feels so romantic
@@Heungminlison I liked it , may be one day I get to do that.
even though he was so toxic to his kids, tony leung made me sympathise with wenwu bc of how believable his acting was
Wenwu: "I know my wife's voice, she's calling to me."
Shang Chi: "Wenwu you realize?"
I love Wenwu but I wish we got to know how he got the rings and why he became a conquer. Also I kinda wish that they didn't kill him off
Same.
I hope that paves the way for a Xu Wen Wu origin movie, if only to have the great Tony Leung back!
I think what wenwu said about his wife is inside the cage is true. That cage maybe a portal to another universe or something. If Wanda can hear her kids and find them alive, so is wenwu and wenwu's wife.
Tony Leung is a great great pick
YESSS! I LOVE THAT YOU ACKNOWLEDGED HOW AMAZING THE TEN RINGS ARE
I was a little disappointed that the Ten Rings weapon didn't do more. However your take isn't bad. It leaves room for the next villain to come in and tell Shang-Chi he's not using them to their dull potential.
Definitely, they said the don't even know what they are or where their from in the movie so they can be explored more
Yess aside from thor mjolnir and stormbreaker, ten rings is my favorite too
Marvel need to get RDJ and Tony Leung to make a prequel movie together. Two amazing actors together.
It’s help when you have the legendary Tony Leung
I don't think that would have come out in conversation. Shang-chi's mother wouldn't have had anything to warn Wenwui about because she left her life in the village behind.
Of course tony leung is a legend westerners dont know how talented this dude is.
They sure do now.
@@notmattmurdock7663 they should ve back then i caught his talent back in hardboiled with chow yun fat back in the day.
@@notmattmurdock7663 although 30 years late
@@tricksalot2 you should check his 80s series Heavenly Sword and Dragon Sabre. It's very famous even in non chinese speaking country like Indonesia. Has been played multiple times over and over again in channel TV here through out the 90s and 2000s.
@@mayaparamita2254 unfortunately. Though better late than never, I'd say.
Wouldn't be surprised if this role earns him an Oscar nomination 😌
One of the things I like about Wenwu is that they literally made a list of Yellow Peril tropes to make sure that they avoided or subverted every single one of them. That's part of how they got a character with this much depth.
I think it's the first villian driven marvel movie Tony Leung simply stole the show his eyes 🙏🙏❤️
I was fresh off rewatching Castlevania when I saw Shang-Chi and Wenwu felt so similar to Dracula, one of my other all time favorite villains. Both made so well, so much emotional weight to them.
I love watching Tony Leung ..... didn't get enough of him in Shang-Chi ....
Wenwu is a truly authentic character unlike some other villains that really is placed here and there.
Wenwu not moving on from his wife's memory is just like how Katy's grandma not moving on , like Katy's mother says moving on is American way and not ours
Beside of a very good script, the legendary actor Tony Leung was incredible and the MCU should bring him back to reprise this role again.
'shang-chi's wenwu is the best mcu villain'
nwh goblin: hold my pumpkin bomb
I really liked your analysis but kept getting distracted by the background music so maybe choose a less distracting one or lower the volume a bit.
I think everything you've mentioned is 100% true and elevated by the brilliant Tony Leung. With the slightest look he is able to convey sadness, anger, love, grief etc. You look at him and immediately understand what he's going through and really feel for him. His actions may be extreme, but his motivation is pure.
My headcanon for all the multiple 'mandarins' is that 'The Mandarin' is just a blanket name you give when youre trying to do something and hide your identity. For example, before Hydra publicised that they were back in Winter Soldier, maybe they went by 'The Mandarin' to prevent themselves from being caught. They went by this title to try and take down Iron Man before the avengers even assembled. This could also explain the appearance of the guy with the Ten Rings tattoo in Ant Man, he was working for someone else but used the Ten Rings as a disguise.
Agreed! Hope to see him sprinkled in past stories
Hollywood need to stop putting mystical monsters as the enemy or bad guys as antagonist, The Great Wall does it, and now Marvel follow.
Imagine a fantasy historical show following his wars when he was young and the people he was with back then
I’ve only ever heard of “Fu Man Chu” from Phineas and Ferb.
Dr. Doofenshmirtz was just sitting on his couch while holding his “Mustache-inator” and pretending to fire it. He was all like: “Pew! A Handlebar! Pew! Fu Man Chu!”
I used to hear that and was like “That’s not a mustache, that’s a kung fu move.”
I wish he didn’t die ✌🏼😔
I remember coming away from this movie thinking "Besides the Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Dragon Ball Z, and Marvel stuff I like about this, there is something special about this experience". The main characters and their supports, the remake of the Ten Rings and their wielder, the humanity behind each character just made me smile. I need more of this character what he brought to the MCU in the other movies. I will let Love and Thunder slide because it's narrated by Korg (who is as reliable as Deadpool or the Joker as storytellers for accuracy) but they need more of this.
Fourth reason why Wenwu rules: He is daddy
Tony, The legend who act by his eye.
This is why I was disappointed with how the conflict at the end boiled down to Wenwu being tricked and Shang Chi stopping him. I think if they had expanded on Wenwu’s grudge against Ta Lo and the intra-family resentment then it would’ve been even better.
Agreed, they set up all of this backstory and character arcs just to have some big monster battle in 3rd act that wasn't really brought up until the 3rd act😂.
But hey.... it's still a Marvel movie
*_"whatever the current global conflict that the U.S. either started or made worse"_* - Nando v Movies, 2021
It honestly breaks me deep inside, that Wenwu might've realized that her wife is definitely dead and that it's his guilt that's pushing him forward with the invasion.
He did have a good story line and Tony Leung played him to perfection. But I have to disagree on that he’s the best marvel villain ever. We don’t know much about he’s back story and character development. My greatest marvel villain of all time is and always will be magneto.
They couldn't have picked a better actor for the Mandarin. I know vaguely about Mr. Leung's work but I'm gonna try and watch Internal Affairs stat.
I really hope they gonna find a way to bring him back.
I'm so jealous of everyone who are just discovering his amazing filmography - I wish i could go back in time and experience a lot of those movies for the first time again! Along with Infernal Affairs i'd highly reccomend the work he did with Ang Lee, John Woo, Hou Hsiao-Hsien and especially Wong Kar-wai.
To y Leung is a legend
They have to stop killing the villains off.
I loved Tony Leung in Infernal Affairs. One of the best films in history that Hollywood bought the story so they could remake an american version of the same story.
Wenwu also believed his wife was banished from the village too when it was just him, which reveals his side of the story to be a bit less credible. If his wife told him about the gate and the dragon he may have not believed it.
yeah it is not often that I cry for the death of the villain in a movie, especially a marvel one. I felt that the pacing was slower than other marvel moview in the beginning but it was instrumental in building up that emotion
Whoa whoa whoa, I didn't know about that Ant-Man connection!
8:10 You're really sleeping on the Yaka arrow tho...
: stares in a Zemo accent :
Thanos was my favorite so far but Wenwu was also great. I loved the scene where he fights his future wife. It was very Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
Wenwu actually feels believable and relatable. Marvel is great at making one off character.
Given the awesomeness of Tony Leung, I coulda done with a mini-series of Wenwu, going over how he got the rings and the highlights of his thousands of years of life leading up to his falling in love with Li as a lead up to Shang Chi. This is a character who would benefit from being fleshed out to the enormous benefit of the MCU as a whole.
I like the movie, but i just couldn't get past the ten bracelets. Maybe if each one did a different specific thing and could be used simultaneously for those different specific purposes...but just ten rings that do whatever the plot needs to happen at that time was just a bit generic.
the one thing i cant get out of my head is "The Ten Rings Will Return"
Does that mean the organization?
Or the rings themselves?
i took it as both the sister took over the 10 rings organization and shang chi got the actual 10 rings
Im skeptical of this because of what marvel did with Mordo. (Unless he'll be a prominent figure in Multiverse of Madness)
@@wrdcreative492 i think she'll be more prominent in a disney show
the line his dad said you did nothing you just hid behind the window and let her die..that line hit me hard...
I desperately need a Disney + show " The Ancient One vs The Legend of the Ten Rings"
I liked him, but didn't like how there was an 'extra threat' thrusted into the third act. For me the film suffers from exposition of 'great battles that happened centuries ago', where the plot screeches to a halt so the main character can have what sounds like the plot of a different movie explained to them ahead of the final battle
Couldn't agree more, those exposition dumps really ground the pacing down to nothing
Wenwu is basically Dr. Strange Supreme from What If.
ngl with you mentioning ivankov's involvement with the ten rings. Makes me wonder if his original electic whips were based on Wenwu's ten rings in-universe
2:09 Appreciated your pronunciation of the "Zh" in "Zheng" 🙏
Not to nitpick (I don't have a podcast called "mostly nitpicking," after all), but I don't think that just anyone can use the ten rings. I think right before Shang got them, the flashbacks strongly implied that the martial arts his mother had been teaching him were _compatible_ with the rings, sort of like "ring bending." It'd be like training gun katas all day without ever holding an actual gun, but put guns in your hands and suddenly it's Matrix time. Now maybe anyone could get _some_ action out of them, but I doubt they could seize control of them or do some of the cooler effects. I also don't think that they would just start doing new stuff, like turning into a shield if Cap got them. I think for other people the best they could do is just stack them on the wrists and hit harder, or just shoot them like boomerangs.
Without getting too nitpicky 😏, I’d challenge your understanding of Shang Chi’s motivations for leaving his family and his history (13:30ish). It’s unfortunately not highlighted well in the movie, so it’s easy to overlook, but I think his conversation with Katy toward the end is really what it all boils down to: he can’t look his sister or dead mother (figuratively, of course) in the eye because he actively followed in his father’s murderous footsteps when he took vengeance for her death. Furthermore, it’s a guilt and and fear of being like his father that drives him to abandon all that Wenwu taught him of martial arts as well. That’s why it’s so important that his aunt encourages him to embrace the fact that he has both his parents in him; it’s only in facing the failures they left to him and synthesizing the strengths they gave to him that Shang Chi can fully come to life and contribute to his family and the people around him-i.e., save the world.
I’m sorry if this is a rehash of anything someone else said, but I wanted to put it out there.
I’m was waiting for something like this.
Loved the hammer defense
Bucky with the ten rings would really be something
the worst part of shang-chi was when they wasted a perfectly good villain and replaced him with a generic cgi monster.
Man Tony L has brought life back into Marvel. He is hands down the best Marvel Villan ever
it's a very handy weapon, would choose this instead of mjolnir
1:30 I agree, he was the highlight of the movie. Plus everything else in the movie was also great, especially the #BusFight and the #ScaffoldingFight
I have to admit, Wenwu made the film amazing. Tony Leung really pulled off the whole "single father with two estranged children trying to revive his wife, no matter what it takes" of his character, how falling in love, even years after his beloved's death, has mellowed him out, but that doesn't mean that he's not dangerous.
No, he isn't. Is Tony Leung the best actor to portray a villain in the MCU? Sure.
Wenwu is DEFINITELY up there in the top tier of MCU villains. My top list personally would be:
1. Thanos
2. Wenwu
3. Kilmonger
4. Loki
5. Baron Zeno
6. Vulture
7. Mysterio
Wenwu was awesome! I really liked that dude!
YESS he is top 3 villain imo. However I really wish they made a different way of resolving the end: where instead of the dragon having “tricked” him into freeing it, his wife WAS actually behind the gate and that is like an afterlife/heaven for the culture which is why the village protected it and wouldnt let him destroy their version of afterlife. I feel like the movie builds up how wenwu is very smart, careful, and tactical, so it would be more satisfying imo if instead of being gullible to fall for the dragons trick, he was actually right about his wife.
Tony leung is fantastic in this movie.
He's also absolutely gorgeous. Total DILF. He doesn't look anywhere near his age.
Tony Leung stole the show. Hands down.
throughout the movie i feel he is the main character :D
Ok Nando but let's be honest, people who get angry at CGI are people who are still mentally living in the 90s
(Note, I am asian) I saw a meme before this movie came out that said something like “It’s fitting that for Marvel’s first Asian lead that the main villain is a disappointed parent.” Seriously though I thought Wenwu was a great villain, and yeah this movie was great.
I dunno if the timeline matches up but I assume that when Wenwu retired to have a family he disbanded the ten rings & the remnants of the organization scattered.
Killian may have heard ghost stories if the secret organization & tracked down disgruntled former members who contacted fellow former members & formed this new ten rings under Killians command.
He may have been inspired by their stories of their charismatic wise but ruthless Asian leader who then retired so Killian modeled his puppet leader on Wenwu & named him Mandarin.
The question is when exactly in MCU timeline did Wenwu return to business & why didn’t he track down this pretender organization to teach them a lesson? Was he content to watch them fumble & lose to the likes of Iron man?
Is it only me or does his story and character really really remind me of Lord Garmadon from Lego Ninjago movie?
I hate how people make fun of the "rings" just because they're bracelets. First of all, they're still rings because that's a shape. Second, literal finger rings would have been the LAMEST THING ever. These bracers are 100 percent the most amazing thing
When I left the theatre I instantly told my sisters that he was my new favorite marvel villain
How about an Iron Man prequel starring RDJ and Tony Leung?
One reason why wenwu is the best villain
He is the best villain
Ehh I really don't agree with him being the best villain. I truly don't get his motivation. He was presented as way too smart to be tricked by the demon dragon, especially when he literally sees its minions escaping the gate. I don't know, there was just something missing for me in his motivations
The movie's conflict would end without any casualties if anyone bothered to make any sense
@@maxcoffee7607 Yeah but that's why I don't think he's a strong villain. I only believe he continues to do what he does because the movie needed a villain
@@e443productions9 I'm agreeing with you. I don't think he was a great villain just because "he loved his wife". He's probably smart enough to realize he's being tricked, but the movie needed a villain so they made him oblivious
@@maxcoffee7607 Exactly. I also didn't see how Shang Chi's inner conflict contrasted WenWu's goals either
His wife literally said "love is blind" in the flashback, Wenwu wasn't "smart" anymore when he was blinded by a hopeless love. On the other hand, most people (but not all because you exist) want to save/resurrect their dead beloved ones, so his motivation resonated with a lot of audiences.
"we have these 2 outdated characters in zheng zu and mandarin, so how about we combine them" - marvel (probably)
They should do a Korean/Vietnam War era movie with John Slattery and Tony Leung about the proxy Cold War arms race!
You state in the video that Trevor Slattery (Ben Kingsley) is white. While the character of Slattery may indeed be white, I thought it was fair to point out that Kingsley is half-Indian.
That is fair however I don't think any of that came through in Trevor so until given information otherwise, he's white.
@@NandovMovies Fair enough. In my headcanon, Killian hired an actor of partial Indian descent in order to stoke the xenophobia and fear. I think this further adds to Killian's opportunistic exploitation of the mainstream media.
@@JdeMolay Didn't Trevor said that Killian paid plastic surgery and all?
Wasnt going to watch this but since Tony Leung is playing an awesome villian. Ima gona watch it asap!
To me, this is one of the most wasted villains i've ever seen. There are moments in the movie that seem to develop him (like when he meets his wife, or when Shang-Chi tells him that the voice he hears is not real) but just when it gets interesting, the movie just moves on. The potential is there, like all the points that you mentioned, but they barely appear. I feel that you can only appreciate this villain when you analyze him a lot, because if he was porperly fleshed out it wouldn't be necessary. He's definitely better than most MCU villains, but he had the potential to be way better.
I think Wen Wu's wife could have told him about the dragon but given how strong his grief was after she died he'd still believe that it was her because he wants to.
Tony Leung's acting with his eyes is so kickass! Especially the first time he gets his ass kicked and thrown into the water. The sigh when he realizes he's met his match and she's beautiful!
He was like "Finally a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary!"
For most chinese at this point, it is not even surprise to see Tony Leung outshined everyone else in the same set. He is equivalent to Leonardo DiCaprio status in the asia market for decades. So what so surprised about that, westerner?
It's Tony Leung, that was prob just a regular Tuesday for his acting
He is the movies real main character to me. He and Awafina made the movie.
I also liked the scene when Shang-Chi, Xialing and Katy were brought to the Ten Rings compound. You could see the pride and happiness in Wenwu's eyes when he told his men that his son was home. Ahhhh, Tony Leung, I'm falling in love with this man. You should watch a video in UA-cam on how Tony act with his eyes. It's very insightful.
Wenwu is a person. Immortal, virtually unbeatable, but still a person. I refuse to believe they could cast a better man for the job than Mr. Tony Leung.
Not just a person but a father and griefing husband
they couldn't because Tony Leung didn't just play Wenwu, he worked closely with Feige and Cretton to re-invented the character of Wenwu. And his acting level is just perfection.
@@theoph1932 plus they've given tony the creative freedom on how he's going to portray a character
I honestly like how they didn’t make him some generic evil organization boss and he had a great character arc!
Except he was an evil organization boss, sure we got a little bit more from him but overall he was still a big bad boss with wife issues.
@@sullivandmitry1416 Yeah I get your point
Hmm ya don’t say?!
@@sullivandmitry1416 Still better than the other secret evil organization boss we saw with Black Widow
I like the fact that even during his evil conquering days he was content with his own hidden little empire.
He wasn’t arrogant like Killmonger or any other conquest driven villains to think he could take on the whole world. He’s stayed under the radar this whole time & only surfaced big to resurrect his wife.
No wonder a number of the fights in Shang-Chi felt like I was watching an old school Jackie Chan martial arts movie. The fight in the bus and the fight in the scaffolding had the energy and crazy combat of Jackie Chan in his hey day. People from Jackie Chan's old stunt team worked on this movie and it really shows.
so much excellent action
Just seeing Shang Chi using enviroment and enemy,s clothes gave me Jackie Chan vibes. Way to go Marvel, creators of MK 2021 should be ashamed with their uninspired choreography and awful editing.
@@Endru85x I was really hoping for some Wu Sha inspired choreography from MK, but instead they made the fight scenes more in line with Samurai films.
There's also the Hong Kong gangster movies where Wenwu is basically a triad boss.
So surprised I ever found myself thinking “get the magic and the dragons outta here, go back to the PUNCHING”
I need a Mandarin solo movie starring Tony Leung. They got thousands of years that they can play with and explore that character.
Yeah..me too..tony leung is the best
He doesn't look like he's already 59.
Exactly. Wenwu is the best mcu antagonist. Tony Leung deserves an Oscar for his performance.
Gonna need Iron Man to balance that out, though.
Yes! I'd love to watch a film or a show where he discovers the Ten Rings themselves!