Very impressed with your interviewing style. Let the guest speak, prompt them with questions you know your audience is asking, and know when to just let it flow. I was really hooked with this interview. Thank you for sharing!
Elizabeth admits her idolatry of Bickle. Credit to her. Others simply can't face the truth that they were deceived and groomed by a sexual predator for decades. Worship God, not man. May God heal the victims, and draw them closer to the Lord Jesus Christ.
the money lady lol - youre the best - such respect. We were so blinded by the happy, friendly, charismatic Bickle. We were so, so, so, so duped. We feel like fools after this. And the disappointment of moving countries for this. Very hurtful. Very deep. This has been a heartbreaking season for our family. We cannot believe the level of deception we were put under. Thank you for your boldness and courage for many Elizabeth.
I'm so sorry for this, especially leaving your home country to sit under such painful deception. May the Lord provide not only healing, but a bright future, and a hope. you've been burned, but It's not your fault. A great manipulator can float like a cloud in your love feast.... And fool many. But God has seen it all... and is a righteous judge when it all comes down. Stand strong and don't give up your faith, in God.
There are so many people that tried to wake you up to this cult so many blogs that got removed very sad I go back as far as 1998 brutally and took him worldwide news so somebody wouldn't end up dead and Jeremiah Chandler and Bethany Dean ended up dead not to mention all the abuse, all the lives that are shattered and divorced does cult sounds like John Paul Jackson's 14 characteristics of Jezebel Spirit.
This happened in so many churches, most not even affiliated with IHOPKC. The confusion that fogs people who are sensing something is wrong but are being gaslit is bewildering and painful. Takes a long time to recover.
Gaslighting and love bombing and manipulation occurred in the “church” my husband and I attended. We were personally kicked out of ministry . When I say kicked out, taken out of every ministry and given a script to tell others about it. Another member turned us in because of a discussion about leaving. We had to “prove” our loyalty, spoke directly to the leader. Because of the manipulation built in, we submitted. I could kick myself for following. And this “church” interacted (worship and prayer leaders visit and leaders in contact with each other) and patterned themselves after IHOP.
I think the most important thing I am learning thru this whole thing is: If I’ve sinned, own it. “Yep. I did that. I sinned against God and man. I am so sorry. Now how can I fix it?” Yes, the blood of Jesus cleanses us but we may have to deal with consequences. How do I humble myself, lay myself bare, and cooperate with God on restitution and healing?
@sherylT1970 I understand that I am a person who owns up when I am wrong with God and man. What upsets me is that we did nothing wrong except trust wolves in sheep's clothing. These abusers deny God and are deluded or arrogant enough to think they have done nothing wrong. The victims need the healing let the abusers account for themselves.
I can relate in a way. I had only gone to Harvest Bible in Chicago area a couple of times. I once heard Pastor McDonald speak at a Christia business seminar, and my spidey senses went off. I am not all that spiritually discerning in general , but it turned out my spidey senses were spot on as the McDonald scandal came to light within a couple of years.
@@GiuseppeJoseph I just read about that Pastor, it seems that people got out with their physical life as well as spiritual. When someone does those things he has a dark heart and that can spread like wildfire. I never want to see anyone go through what IHOP survivors did and to a lesser degree the spiritual abuse that we went through. Thank you for your support.
Beetle bomb: The advocate group with Alan Hood, Wes Martin and Dwayne Roberts that one was excellent along with John Chisholm and Dean Briggs check them out and Mike Miller with Blaise Forte interview.
Joel Richardson and Jose Diaz great truth interview along with Dean Briggs/John Chisholm and Dewayne Rodgers/Alan Hood and Wes Martin excellent of MEN standing up against "church rot" and wanting accountability and exposing abuses and cult behavior (advocacy group); YEAH! FINALLY!!
@@irenetillis207 He already understood how he was being treated but didn’t confront out of “honor culture “ and their age and having respect for his elders and because younger people lack the confidence to stand up to older people.
Thank you Elizabeth and Wake Up & Win for this broadcast! You have an assignment and I declare favour for all involved who were hurt by Mike Bickle and IHOPKC!🇨🇦
Im shaking as i hear this 😢 and i write this...Unearthing pain indeed Blaise, i have a powerful truth experience of spiritual abuse from IHOPKC Dec 2015. I whistleblew back then 2015, then after 18 mths of being hidden away, i tried to reconcile & ask for a leadership meeting or email response Winter 2017 into Jan 2018 and was definitely black balled and silenced; the ripple effect of pain that affected my ministry, my personal family, the youth we served...so so deep. I had to go into safe housing for 18 mths because no one believed us or wanted to address the sexual sin and witchcraft that was literally being ALLOWED in the House. All thats been done in darkness, all coming to the Light now! In Yeshuas Name...Justice for all, including Bethany Deaton and ALL the victims & their families, including mine and my now grown children 26, & 23 who were deeply affected, witnessed and fell victim too!! 😢
Get support from a counselor and trusted ethical clergy. Be careful who u connect to. God bless you. Stay in His word. Stay in the written word. Don’t ever go back to these people. Go to a counselor, trusted biblical clergy and a lawyer. There is help. ❤️
Thank you so much Elizabeth for sharing your story. My heart breaks for your pain. I am so sorry for what you’ve gone through. My family has been connected to IHOP for over 20 years. We’ve had many of the musicians and some leaders come to our home and we’ve provided dental care for them. I will say it was a joy to serve them. This whole insidious uncovering of what was behind closed doors (literally) is so hard to conceive, yet I believe you. You and the Jane Doe’s have nothing to gain from making up this story. The musicians- I think back and they were so innocent. Just kids. To be treated this way is unconcionable. They just loved the Lord and were so eager to live for Him. And you’re so right- believing that Mike is a “bad guy”- how do you wrap your head around that? I fear for the leadership, for Mike, for those who know the truth and are still standing behind him- I fear for them. For their final outcome. It’s not for me to judge that, but it’s terrifying to think about. I just wanted to say thank you and to all the AG for your bravery. I hope, as you say, you won’t give up. It needs to not just “go away.”
Thank you Blaise, Christina, and Elizabeth! MB has so many wounded on the battlefield he created! I believe there’s going to be a great deal of healing taking place and a boldness and strength that can only come from the Lord! Be blessed all of you!
We moved here in fall/winter of 2021….as we deconstruct and process these horrific events, I question what would have happened if even Marks story had come out then and not hidden…would we have uprooted our family and children and lives to come to the “sacred ihop”? The process of this has been excruciating on so many levels. The deception we were under the lies we be believed. The gold calf we had for Mike and ihop…I love how Elizabeth talked about repenting for herself doing that with Mike….bc it’s part of our process right now. This was actually very encouraging and even more eye opening. Thank you for sharing your story Elizabeth ❤️🤍and thank you Blaise and Christina for all you’ve done. You guys brought a lot of hope especially during the early days of this all coming out. Thank you. You have no idea how many you’ve helped walk through this TRAUMA. The literal trauma of this entire thing….earth shattering…touches every area of your life and you don’t even know until it does and you stop and say “oh yeah that too…”.thank you for saying “you’re not alone” and talking about the depths and levels of trauma. There are so many people who don’t get that and it can be very hard.
I don't want to over-spiritualize this, Blaise and Christina, but by "accidentally" switching that camera off, the Lord "took you out of the picture" because Elizabeth's story is so important, it needs all the focus right now. I'm having a hard time holding back the tears as I hear the incredible abuse this woman's husband suffered by the trumped up charges against him. The Lord is close to the brokenhearted, and this story I really feel touches the heart of God in a very big way. I could not finish the last paragraphs without the tears just flowing down. This situation is FAR from over. Thank you for your continued exposure of this situation. I believe there are many people who need to hear this. May the Lord continue to lead people your way to share their stories. (Please vet carefully before accepting any story, as you would not want a fraud to infiltrate your channel in order to bring damage to the testimonies.)
So very tragic what happened to Mark. Also so very tragic what happened to Luke's wife and children. Luke’s wife caught in the matrix seeking counsel from Mike, Diane, Stuart and Marci. Around and around and around with gaslighting and manipulation. 😭
Yes, brave. She’s been speaking out for at least two years, just people were not listening. She’s been on the forefront of bringing all this to light. It’s not been just a one-time speaking out, but an ongoing, continuing, persevering bravery in the face of people ignoring, discounting, questioning motives. She is brave.
This is an important episode. Thank you Elizabeth for sharing your heart. Appreciate your vulnerability and honest owning of repenting for your unhealthy views of Mike. This doesn’t excuse his abuse but it’s so helpful for our journeys to own our piece of it. The culture was so toxic and your stories are so helpful! The feeding stories are disturbing!
Absolutely incredible and helpful interview! Thank you, Elizabeth and thank you Blaise and Christina. I’m so hungry for justice and all to be revealed that’s being covered. Please keep the interviews (I loved the one with Julie R also) coming. Those of us who have experienced ihop (even for a short time frame- I did intro to ihop in 2003) deeply care what’s happening and probably most of us are interested in the victims, restoration and for the truth. But we all need to have hope that truth will win and have the final say.
Mike probably put broken, unsanctified people in leadership because when they began hearing the disgusting stories about him and his family, they wouldn’t feel “qualified” to inspect and confront these situations. He truly is a master manipulator.
They you so much for sharing Elizabeth and thank you Blaise and Christina for being a place for me to process and get clarity on this journey towards healing.
This was a great interview! I am so grateful to you, Blaise and Christina for having Elizabeth. I watched her on the interviews that were done before and she is so genuine and believable. God is using the voices of many to bring about truth and hopefully justice to the victims of MB. Thank you for being a strong voice!
This discussion is SO important! Personally, I loathe, more than just about anything else, being deceived. And I think it's the same dynamic of admitting that we have been a target of abuse. I think the reason it's hard to admit is because it feels embarrassing - "How could I let myself be abused???" This mindset is terribly off base of course! What the average person truly does not understand is how intelligently manipulative certain types of people are. They find a target, and are deliberate, calculated, and even patient as they woo the target into their world. This is called "love bombing." The evil behind this type of abuse is mindboggling, and therefore it's hard to believe it's real. The average person believes we are smart and savvy enough to detect b******t. But the average person grossly underestimates how brutally single-minded some personality types can be. I often joke that these people pursue targets like it's their job - they are EXPERTS at knowing how to insinuate themselves into others lives, and to set them up to be gaslit, demeaned, and finally so broken that they blame themselves for the disaster that life has become. I am deeply grieved over the extent of this manipulation and abuse. Lord, have mercy!!
I completely agree. “Dear God…..PLEASE HELP us to know YOU and your HOLY SPIRIT when discerning our relationships, unintentional idolatries, and sins we don't realize”.
I agree...except that you put this behavior into the "personality" category. I think believers have adopted this mindset that certain things are "just personality" when really it is BEHAVIOR that is sinful and requires repentance. Lots of abusers use this "personality" talk to excuse and justify themselves. This actually blocks repentance. After buying into all of that myself for years...I have seen the damage this causes as believers have begun to use it...bc if it's "personality" it can't be changed. So people end up with "personality" and stuck in sin that could actually be corrected and changed if understood rightly.
@@rlm9093 Yes, you are correct - I deliberately used the term "personality" here for the reasons you describe. Not everything can be chalked up to personality, but in cases of extreme behaviors, SOMETIMES "personality" describes the situation. Overall we are responsible for our behaviors, whether they originate because of personality tendencies, learned habits, or defense mechanisms stemming from prior trauma. I have to be cautious in my comments because I do not want to be accused of diagnosing anyone. But I also want to use this IHOPKC situation to educate people on the reality that there ARE people out there with true personality constellations that are quite fixed. No one is ever beyond the hope that Christ provides. But there is a segment of society who will NEVER admit wrongdoing because of personality characteristics. And we have to therefore exercise caution. The vast majority of people do NOT fall into this category. We need to accept responsibility for our behaviors, ALWAYS. And unfortunately, we must be aware that there exists others who will not.
Thanks so much for having Elizabeth on the podcast. This has been more informative to see the real truth of the story than just about anything else in this whole mess. It's amazing she seems without any bitterness.
not to be judgmental but, you’re telling me, people knew that marks wife was in mikes office for hours at a time with the door locked and had no questions and still followed him 🫣😳. that was the first red flag that shouldve had people running or screaming exposure.
It’s a cult. When you’re in a cult, you aren’t thinking for yourself. Your brain overrides what it knows to be true because you are emotionally compromised to bias your decisions for the sake of the cult.
I can actually totally believe it. Do you have any friends who are obsessive, impulsive rescuers? As a professional caregiver w/a very sensitive heart, I know many young middle-aged women like that. I have a couple beloved friends, sold out for God, who already have a reputation for head-over-heels impulsive obsession. We know our voices won't be heard, so we internally roll our eyes, while they go off to save their latest needy person. Then a year or two later, we'll be there for them to cry on, when their efforts finally aren't appreciated, & the needy person sets boundaries. That's the box I would have put the lady in, inside my head.
It’s a cult. When you’re in a cult, you don’t think rationally. You’re brain-washed. They wouldn’t have even considered that anything unrighteous was happening behind those windowless doors that had a padlock installed on the inside.
We we're one of those starving families in 2011 with 3 kids who moved to KC for IHOP and it's mission. We lived in a small, crappy, not in a good area apartment, we were barely 21, we paid out of pocket for Intro 1 and 2 and the CEC, we were unemployed technically, then we tried to find our way in the system for three years, but the system eventually spat us out due to time constraints, the big financial strain, and it was killing our marriage. We've been better since separating from IHOP.
Seen it over and over with this organization....lots of friends and family were sucked into it. So glad that you guys are out. I hope that you're in a better place financially, and want to remind you of the power of Romans 8....God really does work things for good to those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. I've seen so much bitterness with hurt, and hope that with His strength, you rise above any slings and arrows of the enemy.
when people SHOW you who they are, believe them. and she is sooooo right on about all ihopkc leaders stepping back and getting help, support, deprogramming
It takes an EXTREME amount of trust to watch a woman not his wife go behind closed doors with a man day after day in a ministry. Not enough space to post all the red flags. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
It might seem like trust on the surface, but really it is just lack of wisdom and niavity. No husband should EVER put up with his wife serving any other man in such a way while ignoring her husband and family.
@@rlm9093 nor should any woman (Diane) accept as normal her husband being served by another woman who claims to have all the answers to his health and longevity. I as Mrs Kat would be furious!
@@mrkat8310 Who said Diane knew or accepted it? It seems it was staff and leaders who saw it, no one has said that Diane knew all about it.Or have I missed something?
Friends of mine who were briefly in leadership in the early 1990's left KCF. They made this chilling statement back then, "Mike Bickle is very cunning."
@@berealrb1496 Yes! The body of Christ has this obsession with "leaders" and "leadership" Jesus taught to be servants. It's time the Body of Christ cleanses itself from this disgusting idolatry of "leaders" and "leadership" and serve one another. Hundreds of years of this unbiblical hierarchy in the church must be discarded.
@@lionjudah8900 I just have to say the heathens would rather watch this then a soap opera because it is so unbelievable true and worse than any soap opera. God has had mercy by bringing it out into the light.
Woah. I attended KCF in the mid 90s. I always respected Bickle...until now. My heart is just broken for everyone victimized and for Mike too....he needs deep healing.
Woah best interview yet! I feel like you guys should have her back on as there is such wisdom and love, very solid foundation for people navigating this mess (or other related messes)
I think Elizabeth is so deeply embroiled in the iHopKC culture and the trauma from Mike and some of the others' betrayal is so great that it's impossible for her to believe that the existing leaders may not want to do the right thing.
One of the problems at IHOPKC is that nobody called MB for accountability. Wisdom should have been exercised and called him out on the shenanigans with spending time alone with another woman behind locked doors for hours. In our church, everyone trusts our pastor and yet, you will never see him alone in rooms with women or girls. His meetings with people are never locked, and the fact that there was 0 accountability for MB even when there were so many red flags is just ridiculous!! Did Diane ever go to church? Where was she in all of this?
I wondered about that when they were discussing Luke. If one of my sons was in grave, ongoing sin, as his mother I would be the first person, besides his dad, to be confronting him about it. Yet she is never mentioned, unless I missed it.
Exactly. Our pastor is never one on one with any woman. Either his wife or an elder must be in attendance. It’s just foolishness what was allowed with this cult leader, Bickle.
@@juliesutton7125 Maybe Diane is not even present at all. It's a mystery. Maybe it was a marriage for show, or at least it turned out to be in recent years.
as a forerunner church attendee for many years, I asked where was Diane and someone said, oh, yeah, she's over on the side in the front row. she's not the on-stage personality type. sure enough, she could be found on the side of the stage. only on very rare occasion did she appear on stage. However, her Glad Heart Realty office was in the same converted strip-mall building with the main offices and the Global Prayer Room, bookstore and coffee shop. She had a staff and billboards around town and so that was her deal and that was her presence.
@grannyinthesticks Yeah, but she didn't have to be on stage to notice that her husband was spending too much time alone with another woman in his office with the doors locked. She probably chose to look the other way. Maybe she is afraid of him, or maybe she just doesn't care. Maybe it's a marriage agreement what they have, not a real marriage, who knows.
Being on the outside not knowing of IHOPKC or Mike Bickle until Nov. 2023, and looking in on all this. All I can point to is "Welcome to the workings of the spirit of the anti-christ' explained in 2 Thess. 2. The Church needs to look on all this as a warning to what we are going up against trying to get everyone through the narrow gate.
I so appreciate you sharing your story and your honesty, vulnerability and humility, Elizabeth. Thank you! Thank you, Christina and Blaise for all that you’re putting out there on this issue. You both honor and respect each other and flow together well as husband and wife and it’s refreshing to see. I listened to a few things in the beginning of all this mess and then set it aside, but just within the past couple of days, came across your podcast with Tammy Woods and have listened to a number of your podcasts. Well done on getting the truth out. 🙌🏻 All the victims should be compensated!
Elizabeth, thank you so much for your honesty and vulnerability. I hope others involved will do the same eventually. You are so right about giving them time to fully come to terms with the fact that all were in a delusion. Not as involved as you but it took months for this to sink into my reality. I know I was in shock for awhile. Then horrified that I had been so naïve and gullible. It helped so much to hear you speak. May God bless you and all involved in the advocacy group.
Thank you Elizabeth for being vulnerable to the world, speaking the truth and sharing your heart. I found it so helpful in trying understand what was really going on. Also thank you Blaise and Christina for using your platform to share this with everyone. I can't fathom the levels and waves of trauma... This is all so heartbreaking. I spent 7 yrs at Metro ( at GTC, in MC + reg. attendee) and was there when IHOPKC started. If you had asked me Oct 1, 2023 what 3 Christian leaders are the least likely to ever have a moral failure or have their integrity legitimately compromised I would have said MB. I've been praying and grieving for her and the other victims...plus all the confused and hurt people being left in the wake of this. Will continue to pray.
Courageous, sincere, vulnerable, believable, authentic. She will survive this personal spiritual crisis because she is honest, humbled, taking responsibility for her role, truly sorry and permitting further light and adjustment. If only the rest could follow suit. Looking forward to learning more from her.
Same here. This almost exactly describes so much of my marriage and the dissolution of it. All of this has been so triggering but also healing as I have worked with the Lord through it.
Watching this today, I believe that this video can also serve the purpose of being like a "class" where Christians, Pastors, church staffs, should watch this and learn. I've been in full time ministry for over 25 years and have experienced many of these same things, just not on the same dramatic scales as this IHOP/Bickle situation. there are many "average to good" churches that have alot of dysfunction - good natured people falling into a "Blind, undiscerning loyalty" to a leader is much more common than people think. I know that the Lord wants to build a healthy church and I'm thankful everytime i see the truth being exposed, and another house of cards falling that needed to fall.
I can not thank this Sister enough. Her testimony brings clarity and the entire story line full circle for me. I get it and I feel the travail in my belly. Dear God this was bad. WOW I feel the hurt. Praying for everyone who were victim to this unholy altar. I didn’t know any of these people before and vaguely familiar with Mike Bickel’s name. This is so hurtful. So wicked. Very traumatic. Restoration will come after this shaking. Restoration for those who have a heart for The LORD Jesus and the gospel. We gotta get back to the main thing. Preaching repentance and salvation through faith in the blood of Jesus. Shalom and Godspeed in Jesus name Saints.
Sadly I attended a church like this 45 years ago and I was not restored. Neither was my family and countless others involved in the scandal. To this day the leaders are still covering the Pastors Sexual Abuse….
I'm a woman who was married to a pastor for 20 years who ended up cheating and leaving me. I didn't know until he was way deep in. And I was so devastated. As were my kids. So we have to be careful not to blame her. We just don't know what she's going through.
It’s going to take a lot for her to get past the trauma to acknowledge both her victimhood and any complicity. Until you have been in a gaslighting scenario, it’s hard to see how deep it is. She was almost my first thought when I heard about this, because I was deeply betrayed for many years in a 30 year marriage, KNOWING NOTHING.
Speaking for the victims - no amount of money can buy your innocence back, so even though you might be awarded money in a lawsuit, you cannot put a dollar amount on your innocence.
When I listen to this, and I get it up close and personal, as someone who has had this experience, it makes me so mad that people like Steve Strang, Rick Joyner and others align themselves with this evil predator and predatory behavior. It is so wicked beyond belief
It makes sense that wolves get together - make up a wolf pack. If you are comprised, you’d want people like that around you. Because they do not want to be outed either. So any Matt 18 confrontations by any one person, were effectively dealt with by the whole pack, because any victims were threatening the whole pack.
Elizabeth, you are so courageous! This was humble, honest, and illuminating. I am so proud to know you and the women who are standing up for truth. This is mercy.
It sure does! People just don’t understand that. I think because most people just sweep the painful stuff under the rug. It takes a lot of courage and the grace of God to surrender to true deliverance. And it can take YEARS.
I just watched a movie last night called, "She Said", which mostly focused on the victim/survivors of Harvey Weinstein. I kept thinking how much the stories of these women reminded me of this story...I'm thankful as a woman that we are getting a voice to no longer tolerate this type of abuse. I have worked with SA survivors--some who had been traf-ficked. Though many armchair judges don't understand how this kind of thing can happen and keep happening: first of all, to the level we judge others is the same measure to which we will be judged. Secondly, this type of abuse will actually break their brains--the fight, flight or freeze that Father gave us to survive trauma. It's an actual thing. When it's not an actual predator like a wild animal, then the fight or flight isn't activated due to being someone they thought was safe, so when abuse happens--including spiritual abuse, they freeze because they don't see them as a predator and no longer trust their ability to discern. It's part of what the evil doctors in Germany during WW2 used in their experiments and later continued on here with the MK Ultra program. Abuse and trauma are used to program....Watching the movie last night helped to show that even well known actresses struggled questioning what was actually happening to them and blaming themselves.. I was part of a well known ministry who had a narcissistic leader in one of the ministries within it who went rogue, so I can relate to MB not wanting to meet with the group, but only one on one. I was the first to meet with our leader and confront the things I/we were seeing wanting to practice "Matt 18", he twisted everything I said not allowing me to say much to the point that I was so confused afterwards. This is how he controlled the narrative rather than meeting with us as a group. A couple of days later a friend in the group also met one on one then called to chew me out saying this leader said I didn't say anything! Complete lie! I now know, over 25 years later, that the narcissism won't allow them to be confronted. As difficult as all of this is to hear, as these things are being brought into the light, it's actually weakening the power of this type of leadership style that has been going on way too long. Thank you for continuing to shine the light on this so that others can see it for what it truly is and get the healing that awaits them.
You just gave me a major piece of a puzzle about the freeze response….thank you so much!!!! I can’t tell you how many hours, weeks, months years I was frozen!!!! Bless you 💖
@@kellyanntaylor7157 Lately I've heard the word Fawn added to the end of that list. I haven't yet paid attention to what it means, but it might be insightful to you (and I'll look into it).
@@kellyanntaylor7157 I am so thankful that what I shared was helpful for you! I was praying for at least one person who would be helped by it. May your continued journey bring you to that place of complete freedom that awaits you. Many blessings! ❤
Mark was my manager at IHOPKC when I was in the Marketing Department. He is such a good guy! Really knowledgeable in Marketing and SEO. I learned so much!
The Word says "The Worker is worthy of his wages" so they were very Unjust in only paying out miniscule stipends while being greedy and fattening only themselves ugh 😢
I was one of those "starving artists" living off a small stipend sharing a 2 bed, 1 bath apartment with five guys. Thanks for fighting for us, Elizabeth
@@redneved93 no problem. This whole revelation of what went on in KC is concerning to hear. I pray that with grace and mercy you are doing much better now. I taught ESL in China for ELIC and had to fund raise , but definitely did not lack for food when I was in China. Blessings.
Yes. There is an idolatry of Mike Bickle. Prays 12 hours a day. Of course he is the most holy. But your heart to help the hurting ones is amazing, even after you were hurting. Your insight to relationships is wonderful. Always loving others. Take time for your own healing too.
Elizabeth mentioned spiritual abuse and not wanting to sound like a victim. From one who has come out of spiritual abuse, I have to say that I was a victim while I was under the spirit of manipulation a witchcraft spirit but as soon as I saw the depravity and left I was no longer a victim. And I would declare that, I am not a victim, I am an overcomer. And I completely understand owning my own. Confessing to the Lord my lack, my orphan heart. As I listen to these podcast I have to say that God is bringing me to a deeper healing.
The idea of the “prophetic and prayer movement” has to be reckoned with as a core theology along with current charismatic / revivalist theology having its roots in gnostic, mystic, new age practices (Branham, Amy Simpleton McPherson) and the lack of biblical discernment
What confounds me the most about this movement is Jesus clearly says to not pray in public. And Mike has zero teachings on intercession… prob bc it’s barely in the Bible🤔
I left the movement when I found out Mike Bickle taught false prophesying was OK. It took a while to actually see that the movement as a whole was bad, and I closely followed Andrew Strom's content on the whole KC "prophets." It is obvious now about 20 years later that Mike used that doctrine to groom people and get them to partake in his delusions as well.
@@bcmchozeh None of us are born with a "Christ Nature". That's eastern mysticism. New age. False doctrine. We are sinners, in need of a savior. “He must increase, but I must decrease.” (John 3:30) I hope that you and the two people that clicked the "thumbs up" buttons grasp this important concept.
@VoxLesPaul Hey Nicodemus, You must be born AGAIN, of water and of spirit, to have that Seed of Abraham grow into a Tree of Life. You are not born again unless you get a new nature.
Bro, I like to take footnotes in videos I watch. This one has so many and I'm only half way through 🤯 thank you guys so much for this 🙏 It feels so refreshing after the Rita Springer video to hear a woman of faith speaking light to the shadows and pulling no punches ❤🩹
I call it “weaponization of the pulpit” and it makes me furious. My former (toxic) pastor did that to every single elder who tried to address his sin. He’d get up to preach every Sunday and take not-so-subtle pot shots at anyone who was trying to hold him accountable. We lost EIGHT elder/deacons in one year!!! So egregious…. The curtain is coming down on those who treat Gods people like this😢
I was a member of a Deeper-Life missionary sending group for 10 year... trained in their missionary training school for 3 years. They used God's Word to control and use us and if we didn't...couldn't conform to their dictates we were shamed and abused. My heart was broken...it took 3 years of therapy before I could recognize and accept that what happened to me cruel and abuse. I will have PTSD for the rest of my life. I know...I do know... how hard it is to accept who your "Godly" leader is and doing. I wish I had had a safe place to tell my story... I left labeled as a failure and shunned because I left "God's best". To this day no one knows the grief and pain I lived thru those 10 years "dying to self", being in submission and serving God. I went to the field at 20...I lost the best years of my life....
My heart is broken while reading your words. You think you "lost" years, but God can redeem the most despicable of moments. Remember that the apostle Paul was killing Christians and mentally/spiritually justified it; your time was not wasted. God is still God, sits on the throne, and nothing escapes His eyes. I hope you have found a good bible-centered church where you can heal and reset.
Elizabeth! So proud of you for speaking up, and out. Thank you for your honesty and being so candid. All you shared will help others. So many, like you, have a broken heart over this horrific situation. Stay strong and know that you are doing the right thing.
I can understand being under a delusion and the difficulty of making the decision to walk away once the truth is revealed. For me, I was in a controlling and manipulative chirch for 9.5 years. The leaders were placed on an unhealthy pedestal, and they were able to get away with so many awful things. Once I saw the truth. I had to walk away from everything I had known since I was 16 years old. And before that I had an abusive step parent. I remember going to my final worship practice and looking at every person there. Knowing how much I loved and cared for them and how hard it was going to be for me to walk away. I knew they did not see what I finally saw and that my name would be dragged through the mud as had been done to every other person that had left in the past. Praise God for helping me get out and for leading me into healing and freedom. People who have been brainwashed have a hard time seeing the truth. We must pray for them all to have their eyes opened by Holy Spirit and give them grace as they start to question their reality.
Truly this is the condition of our world right now! The media is brainwashing propaganda and lies, and people just don't see the truth. Thats what they count on.
Thank you for this interview. Yes, not paying a living wage to people is what God wants from us. How we treat the least of these, is how we treat our Lord.
We all should not listen to anything that Rick Joyner, Chris Reed, larry tomzac, Stephen Strang, any of these so-called prophetic voices......all of them came out n defended Mike and said it was nothing....if these prophets missed it on something this big....they have 0 credibility in the future....do not listen to any of these false prophets......and yes ihopkc needs to close....it was built on a false foundation.....
Chris Reed does not defend mike bickle. He has recently come out apologizing as a church leader for what mike bickle and other church leaders have done to hurt people
All those group pastors, and the board should be looked at, because if their lives were as pure as they should have been, they wouldn’t have covered for and accepted Mike they way they did
It’s so incredibly disturbing to watch, hear & see how many people idolized M. Bickel. I keep saying where is the spiritual discernment? Celebrity leaders 🤮
Right? I knew there was something wrong from a distance. Heard maybe 3 sermons of his. Saw a bit of where he went and who he rubbed shoulders with. Can't wrap my head around the lack of discernment.
What about Diane?!?!?!?! She has been the decoy for 50 years. I want HER to apologize for adding legitimacy to this nonsense. I used to serve them breakfast and spend the whole time they were in the restaurant praying for them. She allowed him to look legitimate and there is zero chance she had no idea.
There are only two options here: She was busy doing her Glad Heart Realty thing and Mike was clever in masking his shenanigans, or Diane knew and was eased into acceptance. Do you ever think about how polyamourous relationships start? Polygamy? How is it that multiple women are okay with sharing the same man?
@VoxLesPaul I recall Fallwell Jr at Liberty got into polyamouros stuff really as a perversion escalating of carmal nature. Its never enough. Im not surprised by any of this. The level of ego in these ministries are the perfect land mine field trap. People are not possessed with Christ no more than a seed. They are full of the adamic nature. So its nornal.... Its God's mercy to finally confront it.
Study the toxic relationship between narcissists and empaths. Richard Grannon, Dr. Ramani and Sam Vaknin are good places to start. That should answer your question
It is so sad to see a person get so hurt by his wife and then see a spiritual leader in sin and a son in sin because the enemy infiltrated an entire family who happened to be leading a ministry. I am still trying to understand why other prominent leaders keep saying Mike Bickle is their friend. What occurred is not simply some leader who had trouble with an addiction or pornography, it was a leader who had partnered with Lucifer himself and ruined lives. This video solidified and helped me truly understand the Bickle situation. Very grateful. Thanks for doing this series. I get it now, thanks.
Well, what a beautiful interview! Thank you so much for doing this and thank you for Elizabeth’s courage as well! She gave a really good picture of what she and the other AG leaders are going through and it helps us to have compassion on our leaders even though they are not on the spotlight like Mike Bickle but like she said, we all have to take responsibility and accountability and to see where we played a part even if it’s looking the other way or are own naivety when it comes to abuse, her humbleness shines through. God bless you both for help to put pressure on IHOPKC, wish we could multiply you to every corrupt leader that there would be more armchair investigators as it’s true, they don’t want us to raise any issues so the talk dies down and they can continue to have their evil ways!
It's really terrible that these stories have the same pattern as cults and cult leaders that are also non-Christian. There are narcissists and psychopaths parading about as men and women of God but who are in actual fact wolves in shepherds' clothing. The saving grace here is that some of the people ensnared by these evil folks are true people of God, like this lady here, and are able to break free because they follow their conscience and the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
Thank you for this interview. My attention span starts to disintegrate after about 45 minutes into a video, just how I’m wired. But THIS one drew me in. Really really well done by everyone. It gave us yet another side into the whole IHOPKC saga.
Yep Blaze your describing spiritual grounding for abuse containment. The mental maze that often keeps victims or those who are awaking in opposition and willing to expose or question what will out the sinners and lies UNnder fear of speaking in error or speaking against any leader. Twisted stuff and so many people have been abused by this form of subduing .
That money issue is a big issue. That was one of the main reasons I mainly looked at ihop from afar and never desired to join in. The Scriptures are clear that the singers & musicians in the house of prayer were to be employed in that work. This whole “build an empire off of volunteers” always looked like a fundamentally bad business AND ministry model. This shows that no matter how big a house you build - if it’s built on the ideas of man instead of on Scripture - it’s built on sand and will eventually crumble.
How about the man’s teaching, visions, false prophecies? He actually talked about bloodlines re the forerunners in his endtime stories. The leader in this video had no concerns about his teaching.
Thank you for your comments. RE: "Scriptures are clear that the singers & musicians in the house of prayer were to be employed in that work.", please cite chapter and verse.
Thank you Elizabeth for sharing the true spirit of many comments I’ve only heard through sarcasm, biting cynicism, and other unhelpful ways that have made it impossible to hear and apply in a spirit I feel comfortable with. I’ve neeeeded to hear these true accounts spoken from your perspective of love and mercy. and compassion. I wholeheartedly bear witness-each story is sacred-each son or daughter who has to unwravel these facts and their impact ❤ so appreciate you taking the time to share
"Refused to accept a solution that only focused on Mike" THANK YOU!!!! THANK YOU!!!!!
Thank you for giving a powerful female leader the space to speak into this! Finally a woman in leadership weighing in on all of the corruption
Very impressed with your interviewing style. Let the guest speak, prompt them with questions you know your audience is asking, and know when to just let it flow. I was really hooked with this interview. Thank you for sharing!
Elizabeth admits her idolatry of Bickle. Credit to her. Others simply can't face the truth that they were deceived and groomed by a sexual predator for decades. Worship God, not man. May God heal the victims, and draw them closer to the Lord Jesus Christ.
yes that's what i was thinking ! never put a man above God!
@@1love1hope1faith it usually happens in slow motion. You never realize it is happening. That is how it works.
the money lady lol - youre the best - such respect. We were so blinded by the happy, friendly, charismatic Bickle. We were so, so, so, so duped. We feel like fools after this. And the disappointment of moving countries for this. Very hurtful. Very deep. This has been a heartbreaking season for our family. We cannot believe the level of deception we were put under. Thank you for your boldness and courage for many Elizabeth.
I'm so sorry for this, especially leaving your home country to sit under such painful deception. May the Lord provide not only healing, but a bright future, and a hope. you've been burned, but It's not your fault. A great manipulator can float like a cloud in your love feast.... And fool many. But God has seen it all... and is a righteous judge when it all comes down. Stand strong and don't give up your faith, in God.
I am so sorry that you experienced this. May the Holy Spirit bring glory from your ashes. There are great pastors and churches out there.
This is hard to listen to. The lack of wisdom by supposed born again spirit filled Christians is astounding.
It's witchcraft... sorcery.
How can you be blinded if the Holy Spirit has given us the gifts to discern spirits!
There are so many people that tried to wake you up to this cult so many blogs that got removed very sad I go back as far as 1998 brutally and took him worldwide news so somebody wouldn't end up dead and Jeremiah Chandler and Bethany Dean ended up dead not to mention all the abuse, all the lives that are shattered and divorced does cult sounds like John Paul Jackson's 14 characteristics of Jezebel Spirit.
The whole organization definitely needs to be investigated. 🙌🏻🙏🏻
All present and former members of ELT
It should be shut down
@@vipkidteacherABSOLUTELY!
Extremely creepy cult.
This cult was exposed world wide news for over 24 years. Sad
This happened in so many churches, most not even affiliated with IHOPKC. The confusion that fogs people who are sensing something is wrong but are being gaslit is bewildering and painful. Takes a long time to recover.
Gaslighting and love bombing and manipulation occurred in the “church” my husband and I attended. We were personally kicked out of ministry . When I say kicked out, taken out of every ministry and given a script to tell others about it. Another member turned us in because of a discussion about leaving. We had to “prove” our loyalty, spoke directly to the leader. Because of the manipulation built in, we submitted. I could kick myself for following. And this “church” interacted (worship and prayer leaders visit and leaders in contact with each other) and patterned themselves after IHOP.
I think the most important thing I am learning thru this whole thing is: If I’ve sinned, own it. “Yep. I did that. I sinned against God and man. I am so sorry. Now how can I fix it?” Yes, the blood of Jesus cleanses us but we may have to deal with consequences. How do I humble myself, lay myself bare, and cooperate with God on restitution and healing?
@sherylT1970 I understand that I am a person who owns up when I am wrong with God and man. What upsets me is that we did nothing wrong except trust wolves in sheep's clothing. These abusers deny God and are deluded or arrogant enough to think they have done nothing wrong. The victims need the healing let the abusers account for themselves.
I can relate in a way. I had only gone to Harvest Bible in Chicago area a couple of times. I once heard Pastor McDonald speak at a Christia business seminar, and my spidey senses went off. I am not all that spiritually discerning in general , but it turned out my spidey senses were spot on as the McDonald scandal came to light within a couple of years.
@@GiuseppeJoseph I just read about that Pastor, it seems that people got out with their physical life as well as spiritual. When someone does those things he has a dark heart and that can spread like wildfire. I never want to see anyone go through what IHOP survivors did and to a lesser degree the spiritual abuse that we went through. Thank you for your support.
I vote this as best interview concerning IHOPKC.
Thanks to all.
Question~has anyone filed charges on Bikle?
This is criminal.
Beetle bomb: The advocate group with Alan Hood, Wes Martin and Dwayne Roberts that one was excellent along with John Chisholm and Dean Briggs check them out and Mike Miller with Blaise Forte interview.
Joel Richardson and Jose Diaz great truth interview along with Dean Briggs/John Chisholm and Dewayne Rodgers/Alan Hood and Wes Martin excellent of MEN standing up against "church rot" and wanting accountability and exposing abuses and cult behavior (advocacy group); YEAH! FINALLY!!
Elizabeth, my heart broke as I listened. Thank you.
You were YOUNG. Blaise! It’s not easy to stand up to older people, especially Christians, because confidence and understanding is built over time.
It's not easy but the Holy Spirit will reveal the deception if your connected intimately with the Lord.
@@irenetillis207 He already understood how he was being treated but didn’t confront out of “honor culture “ and their age and having respect for his elders and because younger people lack the confidence to stand up to older people.
@@irenetillis207 intimacy takes time.
Thank you Elizabeth and Wake Up & Win for this broadcast! You have an assignment and I declare favour for all involved who were hurt by Mike Bickle and IHOPKC!🇨🇦
Im shaking as i hear this 😢 and i write this...Unearthing pain indeed Blaise, i have a powerful truth experience of spiritual abuse from IHOPKC Dec 2015. I whistleblew back then 2015, then after 18 mths of being hidden away, i tried to reconcile & ask for a leadership meeting or email response Winter 2017 into Jan 2018 and was definitely black balled and silenced; the ripple effect of pain that affected my ministry, my personal family, the youth we served...so so deep. I had to go into safe housing for 18 mths because no one believed us or wanted to address the sexual sin and witchcraft that was literally being ALLOWED in the House. All thats been done in darkness, all coming to the Light now! In Yeshuas Name...Justice for all, including Bethany Deaton and ALL the victims & their families, including mine and my now grown children 26, & 23 who were deeply affected, witnessed and fell victim too!! 😢
Get support from a counselor and trusted ethical clergy. Be careful who u connect to. God bless you. Stay in His word. Stay in the written word. Don’t ever go back to these people. Go to a counselor, trusted biblical clergy and a lawyer. There is help. ❤️
I’m so so sorry. I pray God continues to heal you and your family, and turns it around for your good. God will use you to help heal others.
@@ShariMcGriffBooks indeed He has and will continue to, Amen
I'm being very very vague. Yah God will judge rightly...
I would like the full story
Thanks for sharing this. I'm a pastor that can learn from this interview and make sure this stuff doesn't happen in our church.
Thank you so much Elizabeth for sharing your story. My heart breaks for your pain. I am so sorry for what you’ve gone through. My family has been connected to IHOP for over 20 years. We’ve had many of the musicians and some leaders come to our home and we’ve provided dental care for them. I will say it was a joy to serve them. This whole insidious uncovering of what was behind closed doors (literally) is so hard to conceive, yet I believe you. You and the Jane Doe’s have nothing to gain from making up this story. The musicians- I think back and they were so innocent. Just kids. To be treated this way is unconcionable. They just loved the Lord and were so eager to live for Him. And you’re so right- believing that Mike is a “bad guy”- how do you wrap your head around that? I fear for the leadership, for Mike, for those who know the truth and are still standing behind him- I fear for them. For their final outcome. It’s not for me to judge that, but it’s terrifying to think about. I just wanted to say thank you and to all the AG for your bravery. I hope, as you say, you won’t give up. It needs to not just “go away.”
Thank you Blaise, Christina, and Elizabeth! MB has so many wounded on the battlefield he created! I believe there’s going to be a great deal of healing taking place and a boldness and strength that can only come from the Lord! Be blessed all of you!
Thank you all for this. I have a story to tell. And i will...in Jesus name. Tell my story!
We moved here in fall/winter of 2021….as we deconstruct and process these horrific events, I question what would have happened if even Marks story had come out then and not hidden…would we have uprooted our family and children and lives to come to the “sacred ihop”? The process of this has been excruciating on so many levels. The deception we were under the lies we be believed. The gold calf we had for Mike and ihop…I love how Elizabeth talked about repenting for herself doing that with Mike….bc it’s part of our process right now. This was actually very encouraging and even more eye opening. Thank you for sharing your story Elizabeth ❤️🤍and thank you Blaise and Christina for all you’ve done. You guys brought a lot of hope especially during the early days of this all coming out. Thank you. You have no idea how many you’ve helped walk through this TRAUMA. The literal trauma of this entire thing….earth shattering…touches every area of your life and you don’t even know until it does and you stop and say “oh yeah that too…”.thank you for saying “you’re not alone” and talking about the depths and levels of trauma. There are so many people who don’t get that and it can be very hard.
I don't want to over-spiritualize this, Blaise and Christina, but by "accidentally" switching that camera off, the Lord "took you out of the picture" because Elizabeth's story is so important, it needs all the focus right now. I'm having a hard time holding back the tears as I hear the incredible abuse this woman's husband suffered by the trumped up charges against him. The Lord is close to the brokenhearted, and this story I really feel touches the heart of God in a very big way. I could not finish the last paragraphs without the tears just flowing down. This situation is FAR from over. Thank you for your continued exposure of this situation. I believe there are many people who need to hear this. May the Lord continue to lead people your way to share their stories. (Please vet carefully before accepting any story, as you would not want a fraud to infiltrate your channel in order to bring damage to the testimonies.)
So very tragic what happened to Mark. Also so very tragic what happened to Luke's wife and children. Luke’s wife caught in the matrix seeking counsel from Mike, Diane, Stuart and Marci. Around and around and around with gaslighting and manipulation. 😭
This woman is incredibly brave. She has to have lost the vast majority of her people just for telling the truth.
Brave? How long did it take her to speak up? She waited till others came forward then jumped on the band wagon.
@@IMOO1896 yes, brave. When you’re in a cult, it takes a long time to see it.
Yes, brave. She’s been speaking out for at least two years, just people were not listening. She’s been on the forefront of bringing all this to light. It’s not been just a one-time speaking out, but an ongoing, continuing, persevering bravery in the face of people ignoring, discounting, questioning motives. She is brave.
This is an important episode. Thank you Elizabeth for sharing your heart. Appreciate your vulnerability and honest owning of repenting for your unhealthy views of Mike. This doesn’t excuse his abuse but it’s so helpful for our journeys to own our piece of it.
The culture was so toxic and your stories are so helpful!
The feeding stories are disturbing!
Absolutely incredible and helpful interview! Thank you, Elizabeth and thank you Blaise and Christina. I’m so hungry for justice and all to be revealed that’s being covered. Please keep the interviews (I loved the one with Julie R also) coming. Those of us who have experienced ihop (even for a short time frame- I did intro to ihop in 2003) deeply care what’s happening and probably most of us are interested in the victims, restoration and for the truth. But we all need to have hope that truth will win and have the final say.
Mike probably put broken, unsanctified people in leadership because when they began hearing the disgusting stories about him and his family, they wouldn’t feel “qualified” to inspect and confront these situations. He truly is a master manipulator.
He chose people he could use. He chose everyone in the ELT.
It’s what our elected leaders and those that control them do too… what does that that tell you.
Nope.
What does ELT mean? @@bordendonna
Executive Leadership Team I think @teachmywordministries277
They you so much for sharing Elizabeth and thank you Blaise and Christina for being a place for me to process and get clarity on this journey towards healing.
This was a great interview! I am so grateful to you, Blaise and Christina for having Elizabeth. I watched her on the interviews that were done before and she is so genuine and believable. God is using the voices of many to bring about truth and hopefully justice to the victims of MB. Thank you for being a strong voice!
Games over, Mike! We WILL NOT give up!!!! You're done!!!
This discussion is SO important! Personally, I loathe, more than just about anything else, being deceived. And I think it's the same dynamic of admitting that we have been a target of abuse. I think the reason it's hard to admit is because it feels embarrassing - "How could I let myself be abused???" This mindset is terribly off base of course!
What the average person truly does not understand is how intelligently manipulative certain types of people are. They find a target, and are deliberate, calculated, and even patient as they woo the target into their world. This is called "love bombing." The evil behind this type of abuse is mindboggling, and therefore it's hard to believe it's real.
The average person believes we are smart and savvy enough to detect b******t. But the average person grossly underestimates how brutally single-minded some personality types can be.
I often joke that these people pursue targets like it's their job - they are EXPERTS at knowing how to insinuate themselves into others lives, and to set them up to be gaslit, demeaned, and finally so broken that they blame themselves for the disaster that life has become.
I am deeply grieved over the extent of this manipulation and abuse. Lord, have mercy!!
I completely agree. “Dear God…..PLEASE HELP us to know YOU and your HOLY SPIRIT when discerning our relationships, unintentional idolatries, and sins we don't realize”.
Complete narcissists
I agree...except that you put this behavior into the "personality" category. I think believers have adopted this mindset that certain things are "just personality" when really it is BEHAVIOR that is sinful and requires repentance. Lots of abusers use this "personality" talk to excuse and justify themselves. This actually blocks repentance.
After buying into all of that myself for years...I have seen the damage this causes as believers have begun to use it...bc if it's "personality" it can't be changed. So people end up with "personality" and stuck in sin that could actually be corrected and changed if understood rightly.
I think some people were broken early and everything is malfunctioning inside them.
@@rlm9093 Yes, you are correct - I deliberately used the term "personality" here for the reasons you describe. Not everything can be chalked up to personality, but in cases of extreme behaviors, SOMETIMES "personality" describes the situation. Overall we are responsible for our behaviors, whether they originate because of personality tendencies, learned habits, or defense mechanisms stemming from prior trauma.
I have to be cautious in my comments because I do not want to be accused of diagnosing anyone. But I also want to use this IHOPKC situation to educate people on the reality that there ARE people out there with true personality constellations that are quite fixed. No one is ever beyond the hope that Christ provides. But there is a segment of society who will NEVER admit wrongdoing because of personality characteristics. And we have to therefore exercise caution.
The vast majority of people do NOT fall into this category. We need to accept responsibility for our behaviors, ALWAYS. And unfortunately, we must be aware that there exists others who will not.
Thanks so much for having Elizabeth on the podcast. This has been more informative to see the real truth of the story than just about anything else in this whole mess. It's amazing she seems without any bitterness.
not to be judgmental but, you’re telling me, people knew that marks wife was in mikes office for hours at a time with the door locked and had no questions and still followed him 🫣😳. that was the first red flag that shouldve had people running or screaming exposure.
Right???? This is insane!!!
It’s a cult. When you’re in a cult, you aren’t thinking for yourself. Your brain overrides what it knows to be true because you are emotionally compromised to bias your decisions for the sake of the cult.
I can actually totally believe it. Do you have any friends who are obsessive, impulsive rescuers? As a professional caregiver w/a very sensitive heart, I know many young middle-aged women like that. I have a couple beloved friends, sold out for God, who already have a reputation for head-over-heels impulsive obsession. We know our voices won't be heard, so we internally roll our eyes, while they go off to save their latest needy person. Then a year or two later, we'll be there for them to cry on, when their efforts finally aren't appreciated, & the needy person sets boundaries. That's the box I would have put the lady in, inside my head.
It’s a cult. When you’re in a cult, you don’t think rationally. You’re brain-washed. They wouldn’t have even considered that anything unrighteous was happening behind those windowless doors that had a padlock installed on the inside.
It's not being judgemental- to discern evil.
We we're one of those starving families in 2011 with 3 kids who moved to KC for IHOP and it's mission. We lived in a small, crappy, not in a good area apartment, we were barely 21, we paid out of pocket for Intro 1 and 2 and the CEC, we were unemployed technically, then we tried to find our way in the system for three years, but the system eventually spat us out due to time constraints, the big financial strain, and it was killing our marriage. We've been better since separating from IHOP.
Seen it over and over with this organization....lots of friends and family were sucked into it. So glad that you guys are out. I hope that you're in a better place financially, and want to remind you of the power of Romans 8....God really does work things for good to those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. I've seen so much bitterness with hurt, and hope that with His strength, you rise above any slings and arrows of the enemy.
Imagine where you would be if you were able to make it work. You really lucked out through your suffering.
I have prayed and prayed about this mess at IHOP. I'm glad spiritual manipulation and physical abuse is being exposed.
when people SHOW you who they are, believe them. and she is sooooo right on about all ihopkc leaders stepping back and getting help, support, deprogramming
This tears my heart out. God bless this woman.
It takes an EXTREME amount of trust to watch a woman not his wife go behind closed doors with a man day after day in a ministry. Not enough space to post all the red flags. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
It is baffling that it was allowed to go on for so long and people seemed afraid to say anything, or got ignored by the leaders .
It might seem like trust on the surface, but really it is just lack of wisdom and niavity. No husband should EVER put up with his wife serving any other man in such a way while ignoring her husband and family.
@@rlm9093 nor should any woman (Diane) accept as normal her husband being served by another woman who claims to have all the answers to his health and longevity. I as Mrs Kat would be furious!
@@mrkat8310 Who said Diane knew or accepted it? It seems it was staff and leaders who saw it, no one has said that Diane knew all about it.Or have I missed something?
Yep
Friends of mine who were briefly in leadership in the early 1990's left KCF. They made this chilling statement back then, "Mike Bickle is very cunning."
It's always pointing finger at people who report these things as being bad sheep. Can't question leadership.
@@berealrb1496 Yes! The body of Christ has this obsession with "leaders" and "leadership" Jesus taught to be servants.
It's time the Body of Christ cleanses itself from this disgusting idolatry of "leaders" and "leadership" and serve one another. Hundreds of years of this unbiblical hierarchy in the church must be discarded.
@@lionjudah8900 I just have to say the heathens would rather watch this then a soap opera because it is so unbelievable true and worse than any soap opera. God has had mercy by bringing it out into the light.
Woah. I attended KCF in the mid 90s. I always respected Bickle...until now. My heart is just broken for everyone victimized and for Mike too....he needs deep healing.
@@maryhamric He needs deliverance and his victims need healing ...
Please bring Elizabeth back! So good.
Elizabeth. For such a time as this…. What a Blessing you have been!!All three of you are “ Jehu”
Woah best interview yet! I feel like you guys should have her back on as there is such wisdom and love, very solid foundation for people navigating this mess (or other related messes)
I think Elizabeth is so deeply embroiled in the iHopKC culture and the trauma from Mike and some of the others' betrayal is so great that it's impossible for her to believe that the existing leaders may not want to do the right thing.
I agree. Even if Mike is proven not to be there his influence through indoctrination is. @abpgrace
Isaac grew up there. He has been steeped in this his whole life.
One of the problems at IHOPKC is that nobody called MB for accountability. Wisdom should have been exercised and called him out on the shenanigans with spending time alone with another woman behind locked doors for hours. In our church, everyone trusts our pastor and yet, you will never see him alone in rooms with women or girls. His meetings with people are never locked, and the fact that there was 0 accountability for MB even when there were so many red flags is just ridiculous!! Did Diane ever go to church? Where was she in all of this?
I wondered about that when they were discussing Luke. If one of my sons was in grave, ongoing sin, as his mother I would be the first person, besides his dad, to be confronting him about it. Yet she is never mentioned, unless I missed it.
Exactly. Our pastor is never one on one with any woman. Either his wife or an elder must be in attendance. It’s just foolishness what was allowed with this cult leader, Bickle.
@@juliesutton7125 Maybe Diane is not even present at all. It's a mystery. Maybe it was a marriage for show, or at least it turned out to be in recent years.
as a forerunner church attendee for many years, I asked where was Diane and someone said, oh, yeah, she's over on the side in the front row. she's not the on-stage personality type. sure enough, she could be found on the side of the stage. only on very rare occasion did she appear on stage. However, her Glad Heart Realty office was in the same converted strip-mall building with the main offices and the Global Prayer Room, bookstore and coffee shop. She had a staff and billboards around town and so that was her deal and that was her presence.
@grannyinthesticks Yeah, but she didn't have to be on stage to notice that her husband was spending too much time alone with another woman in his office with the doors locked. She probably chose to look the other way. Maybe she is afraid of him, or maybe she just doesn't care. Maybe it's a marriage agreement what they have, not a real marriage, who knows.
Being on the outside not knowing of IHOPKC or Mike Bickle until Nov. 2023, and looking in on all this. All I can point to is "Welcome to the workings of the spirit of the anti-christ' explained in 2 Thess. 2. The Church needs to look on all this as a warning to what we are going up against trying to get everyone through the narrow gate.
I so appreciate you sharing your story and your honesty, vulnerability and humility, Elizabeth. Thank you! Thank you, Christina and Blaise for all that you’re putting out there on this issue. You both honor and respect each other and flow together well as husband and wife and it’s refreshing to see. I listened to a few things in the beginning of all this mess and then set it aside, but just within the past couple of days, came across your podcast with Tammy Woods and have listened to a number of your podcasts. Well done on getting the truth out. 🙌🏻
All the victims should be compensated!
Elizabeth, thank you so much for your honesty and vulnerability. I hope others involved will do the same eventually. You are so right about giving them time to fully come to terms with the fact that all were in a delusion. Not as involved as you but it took months for this to sink into my reality. I know I was in shock for awhile. Then horrified that I had been so naïve and gullible. It helped so much to hear you speak. May God bless you and all involved in the advocacy group.
Blessings from Canada. 2 hours long, I am going to listen on my street outreach today. Blessings
Bro John!!’
Dude, love your channel
Hi Brother John! Glad you're watching this!!
Thank you Elizabeth for being vulnerable to the world, speaking the truth and sharing your heart. I found it so helpful in trying understand what was really going on. Also thank you Blaise and Christina for using your platform to share this with everyone. I can't fathom the levels and waves of trauma...
This is all so heartbreaking. I spent 7 yrs at Metro ( at GTC, in MC + reg. attendee) and was there when IHOPKC started. If you had asked me Oct 1, 2023 what 3 Christian leaders are the least likely to ever have a moral failure or have their integrity legitimately compromised I would have said MB.
I've been praying and grieving for her and the other victims...plus all the confused and hurt people being left in the wake of this. Will continue to pray.
Courageous, sincere, vulnerable, believable, authentic. She will survive this personal spiritual crisis because she is honest, humbled, taking responsibility for her role, truly sorry and permitting further light and adjustment. If only the rest could follow suit. Looking forward to learning more from her.
Some of this is wild. Sadly I’ve also experienced spiritual abuse and it destroyed my marriage. Your channel is healing for me. I’m not alone❤
Same here. This almost exactly describes so much of my marriage and the dissolution of it. All of this has been so triggering but also healing as I have worked with the Lord through it.
Me too.
You look amazing Nicole!
You are not alone. me too. havn't been to a church in 17 years and don't think I ever will take that chance again. Bless you x
❤
Watching this today, I believe that this video can also serve the purpose of being like a "class" where Christians, Pastors, church staffs, should watch this and learn. I've been in full time ministry for over 25 years and have experienced many of these same things, just not on the same dramatic scales as this IHOP/Bickle situation. there are many "average to good" churches that have alot of dysfunction - good natured people falling into a "Blind, undiscerning loyalty" to a leader is much more common than people think. I know that the Lord wants to build a healthy church and I'm thankful everytime i see the truth being exposed, and another house of cards falling that needed to fall.
Mercy confronts… I needed to hear that… thank you 🎉
I can not thank this Sister enough. Her testimony brings clarity and the entire story line full circle for me. I get it and I feel the travail in my belly. Dear God this was bad. WOW I feel the hurt. Praying for everyone who were victim to this unholy altar.
I didn’t know any of these people before and vaguely familiar with Mike Bickel’s name. This is so hurtful. So wicked. Very traumatic.
Restoration will come after this shaking. Restoration for those who have a heart for The LORD Jesus and the gospel.
We gotta get back to the main thing. Preaching repentance and salvation through faith in the blood of Jesus.
Shalom and Godspeed in Jesus name Saints.
Sadly I attended a church like this 45 years ago and I was not restored. Neither was my family and countless others involved in the scandal. To this day the leaders are still covering the Pastors Sexual Abuse….
I’m still struggling to understand why no one is talking about Diane and why she put up with this known behavior.
I'm a woman who was married to a pastor for 20 years who ended up cheating and leaving me. I didn't know until he was way deep in. And I was so devastated. As were my kids. So we have to be careful not to blame her. We just don't know what she's going through.
I’m hoping that topic will come up in further discussions. I’ve wondered the same thing.
It’s going to take a lot for her to get past the trauma to acknowledge both her victimhood and any complicity. Until you have been in a gaslighting scenario, it’s hard to see how deep it is. She was almost my first thought when I heard about this, because I was deeply betrayed for many years in a 30 year marriage, KNOWING NOTHING.
She knew much I think. How could you not sense that level of immorality unless you are in yourself. Demons get on people in immorality.
Oh yes, she knew. Whether she was complicit or abused herself, I can’t say. Either way something is very wrong in that home.
Speaking for the victims - no amount of money can buy your innocence back, so even though you might be awarded money in a lawsuit, you cannot put a dollar amount on your innocence.
Agreed. But taking 'their' money should be done.
@@valerierosproy1255 oh I agree they should be financially compensated.
This is called a “Cult of Personality.”
IHOPKC must be shut down. Parents, get your young children and young adults out of there.
YES
It is controlled by a spirit of elitism who operates under the red dragon. Some of the pastors in KC know this spirit
People have to know the spirits that operated this - or there won’t be a real deliverance
I agree with you Karen. There are so many problems in the Charismatic movement.It starts with the men that started this movement.
When I listen to this, and I get it up close and personal, as someone who has had this experience, it makes me so mad that people like Steve Strang, Rick Joyner and others align themselves with this evil predator and predatory behavior. It is so wicked beyond belief
The boys club. This situation enticed them to expose their hearts. good to know.
Makes sense that his son was in sexual sin , I wonder where that came from.
It makes sense that wolves get together - make up a wolf pack. If you are comprised, you’d want people like that around you. Because they do not want to be outed either. So any Matt 18 confrontations by any one person, were effectively dealt with by the whole pack, because any victims were threatening the whole pack.
Elizabeth, you are so courageous! This was humble, honest, and illuminating. I am so proud to know you and the women who are standing up for truth. This is mercy.
She is processing and deculting: takes time, untwisting of scriptures manipulative controlling leaders use....
It sure does! People just don’t understand that. I think because most people just sweep the painful stuff under the rug. It takes a lot of courage and the grace of God to surrender to true deliverance. And it can take YEARS.
Yep, PTSD is a true thing. Also, watching videos on Narcissism helps to explain some of the madness. There are some really good ones.
I just watched a movie last night called, "She Said", which mostly focused on the victim/survivors of Harvey Weinstein. I kept thinking how much the stories of these women reminded me of this story...I'm thankful as a woman that we are getting a voice to no longer tolerate this type of abuse.
I have worked with SA survivors--some who had been traf-ficked. Though many armchair judges don't understand how this kind of thing can happen and keep happening: first of all, to the level we judge others is the same measure to which we will be judged. Secondly, this type of abuse will actually break their brains--the fight, flight or freeze that Father gave us to survive trauma. It's an actual thing. When it's not an actual predator like a wild animal, then the fight or flight isn't activated due to being someone they thought was safe, so when abuse happens--including spiritual abuse, they freeze because they don't see them as a predator and no longer trust their ability to discern. It's part of what the evil doctors in Germany during WW2 used in their experiments and later continued on here with the MK Ultra program. Abuse and trauma are used to program....Watching the movie last night helped to show that even well known actresses struggled questioning what was actually happening to them and blaming themselves..
I was part of a well known ministry who had a narcissistic leader in one of the ministries within it who went rogue, so I can relate to MB not wanting to meet with the group, but only one on one. I was the first to meet with our leader and confront the things I/we were seeing wanting to practice "Matt 18", he twisted everything I said not allowing me to say much to the point that I was so confused afterwards. This is how he controlled the narrative rather than meeting with us as a group. A couple of days later a friend in the group also met one on one then called to chew me out saying this leader said I didn't say anything! Complete lie! I now know, over 25 years later, that the narcissism won't allow them to be confronted.
As difficult as all of this is to hear, as these things are being brought into the light, it's actually weakening the power of this type of leadership style that has been going on way too long. Thank you for continuing to shine the light on this so that others can see it for what it truly is and get the healing that awaits them.
You just gave me a major piece of a puzzle about the freeze response….thank you so much!!!! I can’t tell you how many hours, weeks, months years I was frozen!!!! Bless you 💖
@@kellyanntaylor7157 Lately I've heard the word Fawn added to the end of that list. I haven't yet paid attention to what it means, but it might be insightful to you (and I'll look into it).
Fawn response is using appeasing as means to survive when your safety is threatened, and a common defensive response during abuse
@@kellyanntaylor7157 I am so thankful that what I shared was helpful for you! I was praying for at least one person who would be helped by it. May your continued journey bring you to that place of complete freedom that awaits you. Many blessings! ❤
@@larsonanne That's interesting as I'd not heard that term used before, but it makes sense.
I can’t write THANK YOU out the number of times my soul is crying it. Micah 6:8. Never stop until it’s all lit up.
Elizabeth you are so brave and courageous. I am so sorry for your pain.
Mark was my manager at IHOPKC when I was in the Marketing Department. He is such a good guy! Really knowledgeable in Marketing and SEO. I learned so much!
The Word says "The Worker is worthy of his wages" so they were very Unjust in only paying out miniscule stipends while being greedy and fattening only themselves ugh 😢
True.. but the church has always used free labor...if it weren't for free.
I was one of those "starving artists" living off a small stipend sharing a 2 bed, 1 bath apartment with five guys. Thanks for fighting for us, Elizabeth
did you also need to line up for free Panera bread ? Hope you came out of this alright , though of course no where near an ideal situation.
@GiuseppeJoseph thank you for your concern and for the kind words. I wouldn't say "need" but local food banks were very helpful
@@redneved93 no problem. This whole revelation of what went on in KC is concerning to hear. I pray that with grace and mercy you are doing much better now. I taught ESL in China for ELIC and had to fund raise , but definitely did not lack for food when I was in China. Blessings.
@GiuseppeJoseph thank you. I am much better now. God is good
Blessings to you precious brother in the faith. May you continue to walk in healing in every way. ❤️
Yes. There is an idolatry of Mike Bickle. Prays 12 hours a day. Of course he is the most holy. But your heart to help the hurting ones is amazing, even after you were hurting. Your insight to relationships is wonderful. Always loving others. Take time for your own healing too.
Right on, Elisabeth! This message is more important than you think.
So everyone knew MB had a woman in his office behind closed and LOCKED doors and no one had a problem with this???
And then the lady is shocked when more evidence comes out that her friend’s wife is involved with cult leader and subsequently, his son.
Thank you Elizabeth. I so appreciate your openness.
Elizabeth mentioned spiritual abuse and not wanting to sound like a victim. From one who has come out of spiritual abuse, I have to say that I was a victim while I was under the spirit of manipulation a witchcraft spirit but as soon as I saw the depravity and left I was no longer a victim. And I would declare that, I am not a victim, I am an overcomer. And I completely understand owning my own. Confessing to the Lord my lack, my orphan heart. As I listen to these podcast I have to say that God is bringing me to a deeper healing.
Thank you for doing what you are doing, Blaise and Christina.
Sadly alot of wolves in sheeps' clothing in the "church", keep on the armor of God.
The idea of the “prophetic and prayer movement” has to be reckoned with as a core theology along with current charismatic / revivalist theology having its roots in gnostic, mystic, new age practices (Branham, Amy Simpleton McPherson) and the lack of biblical discernment
What confounds me the most about this movement is Jesus clearly says to not pray in public. And Mike has zero teachings on intercession… prob bc it’s barely in the Bible🤔
I left the movement when I found out Mike Bickle taught false prophesying was OK. It took a while to actually see that the movement as a whole was bad, and I closely followed Andrew Strom's content on the whole KC "prophets." It is obvious now about 20 years later that Mike used that doctrine to groom people and get them to partake in his delusions as well.
It has nothing to do with theology. Its the sheer poor capacity of the measure of Christ Nature in people. The True Gospel is a Person inside you.
@@bcmchozeh None of us are born with a "Christ Nature". That's eastern mysticism. New age. False doctrine.
We are sinners, in need of a savior. “He must increase, but I must decrease.” (John 3:30)
I hope that you and the two people that clicked the "thumbs up" buttons grasp this important concept.
@VoxLesPaul Hey Nicodemus, You must be born AGAIN, of water and of spirit, to have that Seed of Abraham grow into a Tree of Life. You are not born again unless you get a new nature.
Bro, I like to take footnotes in videos I watch. This one has so many and I'm only half way through 🤯 thank you guys so much for this 🙏
It feels so refreshing after the Rita Springer video to hear a woman of faith speaking light to the shadows and pulling no punches ❤🩹
Rita Springers video fell very short. Shes in the loop too deep😢
@@mandyleaguemamaleague6968felt the same
Where on earth was Mike Bickle's wife during these times when the other lady was frequently served Mike food and other stuff?
God bless you, Elizabeth, you definitely carry your dad’s heart for the flock. What an excellent interview. Thank you Blaise and Christina…
Thank you for being a voice for truth!
Y’all need like 5 more interviews with Elizabeth! Next interview… talk about the money! Mike and his wife own a real-estate company…
I'm glad I tuned into this conversation. I have been praying for IHOP. I will continue to pray.
I call it “weaponization of the pulpit” and it makes me furious. My former (toxic) pastor did that to every single elder who tried to address his sin. He’d get up to preach every Sunday and take not-so-subtle pot shots at anyone who was trying to hold him accountable. We lost EIGHT elder/deacons in one year!!! So egregious…. The curtain is coming down on those who treat Gods people like this😢
In the church where I grew up, the pastor's bosses were the elders. Sad that your church was so wounded by this man.
I was a member of a Deeper-Life missionary sending group for 10 year... trained in their missionary training school for 3 years. They used God's Word to control and use us and if we didn't...couldn't conform to their dictates we were shamed and abused. My heart was broken...it took 3 years of therapy before I could recognize and accept that what happened to me cruel and abuse. I will have PTSD for the rest of my life. I know...I do know... how hard it is to accept who your "Godly" leader is and doing.
I wish I had had a safe place to tell my story... I left labeled as a failure and shunned because I left "God's best". To this day no one knows the grief and pain I lived thru those 10 years "dying to self", being in submission and serving God. I went to the field at 20...I lost the best years of my life....
God saw everything you gave. He will reward you. Men may have failed you but God is faithful ❤
My heart is broken while reading your words. You think you "lost" years, but God can redeem the most despicable of moments.
Remember that the apostle Paul was killing Christians and mentally/spiritually justified it; your time was not wasted. God is still God, sits on the throne, and nothing escapes His eyes. I hope you have found a good bible-centered church where you can heal and reset.
Elizabeth! So proud of you for speaking up, and out. Thank you for your honesty and being so candid. All you shared will help others. So many, like you, have a broken heart over this horrific situation. Stay strong and know that you are doing the right thing.
Where are Luke Bickle and the woman who had an affair with him now? Are they still together? Are they still allowed at the ministry?
I can understand being under a delusion and the difficulty of making the decision to walk away once the truth is revealed. For me, I was in a controlling and manipulative chirch for 9.5 years. The leaders were placed on an unhealthy pedestal, and they were able to get away with so many awful things. Once I saw the truth. I had to walk away from everything I had known since I was 16 years old. And before that I had an abusive step parent.
I remember going to my final worship practice and looking at every person there. Knowing how much I loved and cared for them and how hard it was going to be for me to walk away. I knew they did not see what I finally saw and that my name would be dragged through the mud as had been done to every other person that had left in the past.
Praise God for helping me get out and for leading me into healing and freedom. People who have been brainwashed have a hard time seeing the truth. We must pray for them all to have their eyes opened by Holy Spirit and give them grace as they start to question their reality.
Truly this is the condition of our world right now! The media is brainwashing propaganda and lies, and people just don't see the truth. Thats what they count on.
Please keep speaking up about everything 💯
Elizabeth truly is awesome. What a force.
I'm going through a completely different situation... but the same traumatic confused questions... thank you for sharing, this was healing to hear.
Awesome interview and questions Blaise and Christina .
Mercy for the right people 🎯👏👏🙏🏻
Thank you for this interview.
Yes, not paying a living wage to people is what God wants from us.
How we treat the least of these, is how we treat our Lord.
We all should not listen to anything that Rick Joyner, Chris Reed, larry tomzac, Stephen Strang, any of these so-called prophetic voices......all of them came out n defended Mike and said it was nothing....if these prophets missed it on something this big....they have 0 credibility in the future....do not listen to any of these false prophets......and yes ihopkc needs to close....it was built on a false foundation.....
Chris Reed does not defend mike bickle. He has recently come out apologizing as a church leader for what mike bickle and other church leaders have done to hurt people
All those group pastors, and the board should be looked at, because if their lives were as pure as they should have been, they wouldn’t have covered for and accepted Mike they way they did
It’s so incredibly disturbing to watch, hear & see how many people idolized M. Bickel. I keep saying where is the spiritual discernment? Celebrity leaders 🤮
Right? I knew there was something wrong from a distance. Heard maybe 3 sermons of his. Saw a bit of where he went and who he rubbed shoulders with. Can't wrap my head around the lack of discernment.
What about Diane?!?!?!?! She has been the decoy for 50 years. I want HER to apologize for adding legitimacy to this nonsense. I used to serve them breakfast and spend the whole time they were in the restaurant praying for them. She allowed him to look legitimate and there is zero chance she had no idea.
That is a serious question for sure.
There are only two options here: She was busy doing her Glad Heart Realty thing and Mike was clever in masking his shenanigans, or Diane knew and was eased into acceptance.
Do you ever think about how polyamourous relationships start? Polygamy? How is it that multiple women are okay with sharing the same man?
@VoxLesPaul I recall Fallwell Jr at Liberty got into polyamouros stuff really as a perversion escalating of carmal nature. Its never enough. Im not surprised by any of this. The level of ego in these ministries are the perfect land mine field trap. People are not possessed with Christ no more than a seed. They are full of the adamic nature. So its nornal.... Its God's mercy to finally confront it.
Study the toxic relationship between narcissists and empaths. Richard Grannon, Dr. Ramani and Sam Vaknin are good places to start.
That should answer your question
Thank you,@@heatherlomaxmusic4776 .
The question was rhetorical toward the reader. Unfortunately, I know more on narcissism than I wish I did.
It is so sad to see a person get so hurt by his wife and then see a spiritual leader in sin and a son in sin because the enemy infiltrated an entire family who happened to be leading a ministry. I am still trying to understand why other prominent leaders keep saying Mike Bickle is their friend. What occurred is not simply some leader who had trouble with an addiction or pornography, it was a leader who had partnered with Lucifer himself and ruined lives. This video solidified and helped me truly understand the Bickle situation. Very grateful. Thanks for doing this series. I get it now, thanks.
I am so grateful Elizabeth!
Well, what a beautiful interview! Thank you so much for doing this and thank you for Elizabeth’s courage as well! She gave a really good picture of what she and the other AG leaders are going through and it helps us to have compassion on our leaders even though they are not on the spotlight like Mike Bickle but like she said, we all have to take responsibility and accountability and to see where we played a part even if it’s looking the other way or are own naivety when it comes to abuse, her humbleness shines through. God bless you both for help to put pressure on IHOPKC, wish we could multiply you to every corrupt leader that there would be more armchair investigators as it’s true, they don’t want us to raise any issues so the talk dies down and they can continue to have their evil ways!
It's really terrible that these stories have the same pattern as cults and cult leaders that are also non-Christian. There are narcissists and psychopaths parading about as men and women of God but who are in actual fact wolves in shepherds' clothing. The saving grace here is that some of the people ensnared by these evil folks are true people of God, like this lady here, and are able to break free because they follow their conscience and the prompting of the Holy Spirit.
Yes. And the flying monkeys line up with the psychopath's narrative.
Thank you for this interview. My attention span starts to disintegrate after about 45 minutes into a video, just how I’m wired. But THIS one drew me in. Really really well done by everyone. It gave us yet another side into the whole IHOPKC saga.
Yep Blaze your describing spiritual grounding for abuse containment. The mental maze that often keeps victims or those who are awaking in opposition and willing to expose or question what will out the sinners and lies UNnder fear of speaking in error or speaking against any leader. Twisted stuff and so many people have been abused by this form of subduing .
This lady is just so loveable! She reminds me of my cousin! Super spunky I love it. Thank you for sharing
That money issue is a big issue. That was one of the main reasons I mainly looked at ihop from afar and never desired to join in. The Scriptures are clear that the singers & musicians in the house of prayer were to be employed in that work. This whole “build an empire off of volunteers” always looked like a fundamentally bad business AND ministry model. This shows that no matter how big a house you build - if it’s built on the ideas of man instead of on Scripture - it’s built on sand and will eventually crumble.
How about the man’s teaching, visions, false prophecies? He actually talked about bloodlines re the forerunners in his endtime stories. The leader in this video had no concerns about his teaching.
@@bordendonna She was deceived. She needs time to realize what your saying.
Thank you for your comments. RE: "Scriptures are clear that the singers & musicians in the house of prayer were to be employed in that work.", please cite chapter and verse.
Thank you Elizabeth for sharing the true spirit of many comments I’ve only heard through sarcasm, biting cynicism, and other unhelpful ways that have made it impossible to hear and apply in a spirit I feel comfortable with. I’ve neeeeded to hear these true accounts spoken from your perspective of love and mercy. and compassion. I wholeheartedly bear witness-each story is sacred-each son or daughter who has to unwravel these facts and their impact ❤ so appreciate you taking the time to share