All right Rob, I have a technical question for you. Just taking the Cummins inline six platform as we know it as the 12 valve 6bt and common rail ISB... This question has come to my mind and I do not understand completely and hoping you can shed some light on the subject. It is known in the 6bt that there are a multitude of piston bowl designs depending up on application. It ranges from the truck which is a small bowl all the way up to the 370 HP Marine which is significantly larger. Then we step into the common rail which first hit the scene in 03 to the modern design in the 6.7. I have noticed that the bowl design has gotten significantly wider over time and yet the overall compression ratio has largely remained fairly constant. Here's my question. How does piston bowl design impact power production, longevity and durability, and overall life of the engine? I understand the operational parameters with each design is different in comparing a mechanical versus a common rail. But even within the 6bt realm of truck(on highway) versus marine the differences are quite significant. We can observe using our eyes that they are different but why? Can you shed some technical light on this subject?
@@CUTTERUPROB that does seem to be a major driver for most changes I would like to better understand why? I've seen Volvos wave piston in their D series engines and appears to be a real game changer in design. Looking forward to the video. You're doing a great service to us less informed and less experienced. Many thank yous!
If you were building a cummins engine from scratch with mostly factory parts. Like using a 6.7 crank in a 5.9 block with a 12v head or something. what would you do
Hello Rob, I'm still in planning stages of a sreetable 6.7l 12v and would like to know what a safe overbore is for 750-800HP. I'm looking for as much displacement as I can for moving air. Light tow rig, not a dedicated DD though. Somewhat of a hot rod with good street manners.
Hard part with a Ppump 12v is the use the centre bowl pistons you have to have big injectors to fix the spray angle. So it won’t be a great street engine. But it can be done
I have the ISBe 4.5L CR with the piston that looks like the 305Hp 5.9 and the 6.7 truck you displayed. I will be controlling it with the CM2150 ECM. What injector would you run? Have any recommended numbers? Thanks
Hi Rob. What is your opinion on piston top ceramic coats? Any protection or durability to gain with those coatings? My application is marine 6bta 370. Not looking for more performance, just reliability overall. Thanks Ps. email sent regarding other conversation.
Hello , I rebuilt my 12 valve Cummins with P- pump ,mostly stock , with marine Pistons . I'm trying to figure out if it need different injectors? [ When I cold start it , it smokes and misses] when I get on the throttle. Until it warms up but good idel . Only about 2 hours on rebuild. Wonder if RINGS need seated still . 5 ° or 10 ° fuel plate . Thanks
@@CUTTERUPROB Thanks 4 taking the time to reply 🇺🇸✌. I've have just stock injectors , no idea what angle is , and what they put in a 1996 . And you're inclination was right I'm running stock timing
So i have an 06 5.9 ( presuming it is the 325hp) and i have an 08 6.7 short block. I believe i had an injector fail which in turn killed my 5.9. Anyways my question is do i run stock size 5.9 injectors or do i need to get bigger ones for the 6.7, yes i know i need to change spray pattern and i was going to buy new 03-04 injectors because from my understanding they have the correct spray pattern (305 hp)
When upgrading a 07 5.9 to the 6.7 what do you prefer small bowl or qsb? And any mpg difference you think? On mine I used small bowl same tuning. Mpgs the same maybe a little .5-1. Built for about 725hp
2003-2004 the non ho/non 305hp pistons don't have the oil cooling passage in the top of the piston seen as 3 holes 2 on one side and 1 on the other. That's what the C and 6 codes differentiate. Great video
@@CUTTERUPROB it’s a 96 block bored .020 over, I haven’t sent the p pump out yet either so any recommendations highly appreciated! Thank you for the response
no for two reasons, one the 6.7 piston dia in .200 larger the block can't be bored that big, second reason in the piston bowl is wrong for the 325hp ( 505) injector
Isn't the 40 over 5.9 pistons 1.00mm and the 20 over 6.7l piston 1.07mm when I looked up the info that what I found, for the spray pattern don't you just change out your 5.9 injector nozzles to 6.7l nozzles just asking I'm no pro
@@jesserasso1042 factory bore size 5.9 is 4.020" 6.7 is 4.210" you can do a nozzle swap on the injectors. if you want to run the 6.7 isb piston but i recommend to have them tested after the swap.
Hi Rob ,rebuilding 5,9 cumins 2005 and just to ask you what is ring gap,the books says 0.010-0014 top ring Intermittent ring 0.003-0.045 Oil control 0.010-0.022 Before honing cilindar first ring 0.016 second 0.041 and third 0.018 all 6 cilindar is it this spec ok ot i need bore all cilindar or if i go with this spec. Im going to have blowby
You will need to measure the bore vs the piston with bore gauge to do it the right way. You ring gap can be adjusted to the what you doing with the engine
Hey Rob, thank you for replying. i'm going again to the machine shop to measure everything with bore gouges ... Will not upgrade anything. This is stock 5,9 with 359hp My question to you. What company did you recommend for piston's ring?
@@CUTTERUPROB I appreciate the knowledge my friend! Also if you ever have or know of a person that can do the rollerizeing for me. I have brand new stuff I need done for my project. Or heck if someone has a lathe/mill with a 6 jaw I'd be interested in buying to start making these myself for the platform.
even though a vp 44 injector has a similar spray pattern does it matter that the vp nozzle tip is about .100" longer and sticks down in the cylinder farther than the cr injector. does this allow for more timing because the tip is closer to the dome . or does it need to be changed to a flatter degree spray?
The pattern is with 2-4 degrees depending on the nozzles that are used. The the deeper protrusion is good with a mechanical engine keeps the fire in the bowl. This is something I will talk about when I get a dyno so I can show the power difference
![Your Factory Diesel Pistons Suck. Here's Why | Mahle [TECH TALK]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CJyRRRr6Fk0/mqdefault.jpg)
I’m distracted by that beautiful lullaby humming away in the background.
Great info Rob, thanks!!
All right Rob, I have a technical question for you. Just taking the Cummins inline six platform as we know it as the 12 valve 6bt and common rail ISB... This question has come to my mind and I do not understand completely and hoping you can shed some light on the subject. It is known in the 6bt that there are a multitude of piston bowl designs depending up on application. It ranges from the truck which is a small bowl all the way up to the 370 HP Marine which is significantly larger. Then we step into the common rail which first hit the scene in 03 to the modern design in the 6.7. I have noticed that the bowl design has gotten significantly wider over time and yet the overall compression ratio has largely remained fairly constant. Here's my question. How does piston bowl design impact power production, longevity and durability, and overall life of the engine? I understand the operational parameters with each design is different in comparing a mechanical versus a common rail. But even within the 6bt realm of truck(on highway) versus marine the differences are quite significant. We can observe using our eyes that they are different but why? Can you shed some technical light on this subject?
I will have to do a video on that. One day. A lot have to do with emissions.
@@CUTTERUPROB that does seem to be a major driver for most changes I would like to better understand why? I've seen Volvos wave piston in their D series engines and appears to be a real game changer in design. Looking forward to the video. You're doing a great service to us less informed and less experienced. Many thank yous!
If you were building a cummins engine from scratch with mostly factory parts. Like using a 6.7 crank in a 5.9 block with a 12v head or something. what would you do
i would do a short video up for you
This was an awesome video so much info on it
Pretty cool 👌
Thanks David
Hello Rob, I'm still in planning stages of a sreetable 6.7l 12v and would like to know what a safe overbore is for 750-800HP.
I'm looking for as much displacement as I can for moving air. Light tow rig, not a dedicated DD though. Somewhat of a hot rod with good street manners.
Hard part with a Ppump 12v is the use the centre bowl pistons you have to have big injectors to fix the spray angle. So it won’t be a great street engine. But it can be done
Pros and cons to the 325hp piston? Because it sounds like the bowl style is liked more?
it's on the list for a video
Very informative Rob
🙏
Great video Rob.
Thank you, Ed.
I have the ISBe 4.5L CR with the piston that looks like the 305Hp 5.9 and the 6.7 truck you displayed. I will be controlling it with the CM2150 ECM. What injector would you run? Have any recommended numbers? Thanks
Bit out of my wheel house to be honest. But I would run the injectors the ecm is based for.
Can you run a industrial big bowl common rail piston with a dual key stone in a 1999 24v that's p pumped
you can , but the oil jets dont cool the pistons as they should, but i know guys that have done it
Hi Rob. What is your opinion on piston top ceramic coats?
Any protection or durability to gain with those coatings?
My application is marine 6bta 370. Not looking for more performance, just reliability overall.
Thanks
Ps. email sent regarding other conversation.
The coating does help keep the heat out of the pistons for a while but it does burn off over time
Hello , I rebuilt my 12 valve Cummins with P- pump ,mostly stock , with marine Pistons . I'm trying to figure out if it need different injectors? [ When I cold start it , it smokes and misses] when I get on the throttle. Until it warms up but good idel . Only about 2 hours on rebuild. Wonder if RINGS need seated still .
5 ° or 10 ° fuel plate . Thanks
You would be running 155 degree nozzles and start your timing at 18 degrees
@@CUTTERUPROB Thanks 4 taking the time to reply 🇺🇸✌.
I've have just stock injectors , no idea what angle is , and what they put in a 1996 .
And you're inclination was right I'm running stock timing
So i have an 06 5.9 ( presuming it is the 325hp) and i have an 08 6.7 short block. I believe i had an injector fail which in turn killed my 5.9. Anyways my question is do i run stock size 5.9 injectors or do i need to get bigger ones for the 6.7, yes i know i need to change spray pattern and i was going to buy new 03-04 injectors because from my understanding they have the correct spray pattern (305 hp)
you can run a stock 305 hp ( 503 ) injector in the 6.7 with operating system from the 5.9
What are the differences in compression ratios between the 5.9 variations and then the 6.7?
i will have to do a video on it,
When upgrading a 07 5.9 to the 6.7 what do you prefer small bowl or qsb? And any mpg difference you think? On mine I used small bowl same tuning. Mpgs the same maybe a little .5-1. Built for about 725hp
I like the isb 6.7 ( smaller bowl ) mpg I not sure you will see alot of different. The longevity is better
2003-2004 the non ho/non 305hp pistons don't have the oil cooling passage in the top of the piston seen as 3 holes 2 on one side and 1 on the other. That's what the C and 6 codes differentiate.
Great video
Witch I believe would be the 265 ho engine. But still common rail. Witch funny enough I have never seen one in person
In your opinion how much HP could the single ring land marine piston for the 12 valve take before it breaks off?
I have run a 1000hp with a single stock style piston . a lot has to do on timing aka cylinder pressure
how do you like interstate mcbee rebuild kits w their pistons? 12v
I have only used them a few times. But seem to be ok.
What pistons would you recommend for building a p pump 24 valve tow rig
Depends on what block and combo you are going to use. For a normal vp44 style ppump build I would just use the high comp stock style
@@CUTTERUPROB it’s a 96 block bored .020 over, I haven’t sent the p pump out yet either so any recommendations highly appreciated! Thank you for the response
@@adamkinsel9118 np. Ya do the high compression vp44 pistons. Pump I would send to Seth Farrell @farrell diesel
Tell him I sent you
@@CUTTERUPROB thanks again, and for all the videos
Can you run the 6.7l piston in the 325hp cummins cause I bought some and just took my engine apart and 4 of my original piston are melted
no for two reasons, one the 6.7 piston dia in .200 larger the block can't be bored that big, second reason in the piston bowl is wrong for the 325hp
( 505) injector
Isn't the 40 over 5.9 pistons 1.00mm and the 20 over 6.7l piston 1.07mm when I looked up the info that what I found, for the spray pattern don't you just change out your 5.9 injector nozzles to 6.7l nozzles just asking I'm no pro
@@jesserasso1042
factory bore size
5.9 is 4.020"
6.7 is 4.210"
you can do a nozzle swap on the injectors. if you want to run the 6.7 isb piston but i recommend to have them tested after the swap.
Hi Rob ,rebuilding 5,9 cumins 2005 and just to ask you what is ring gap,the books says 0.010-0014 top ring
Intermittent ring 0.003-0.045
Oil control 0.010-0.022
Before honing cilindar first ring 0.016 second 0.041 and third 0.018 all 6 cilindar is it this spec ok ot i need bore all cilindar or if i go with this spec. Im going to have blowby
You will need to measure the bore vs the piston with bore gauge to do it the right way. You ring gap can be adjusted to the what you doing with the engine
Hey Rob, thank you for replying. i'm going again to the machine shop to measure everything with bore gouges ...
Will not upgrade anything. This is stock 5,9 with 359hp
My question to you.
What company did you recommend for piston's ring?
@@eniscanovolcano if you want the Best Buy total seal gap less
Where can I get that dual keystone piston early in the video. I think I want to run that with 03-04 injectors
Off the top of my head the 480hp 5.9 was duals but there not easy to find these days.
@@CUTTERUPROB I appreciate the knowledge my friend! Also if you ever have or know of a person that can do the rollerizeing for me. I have brand new stuff I need done for my project. Or heck if someone has a lathe/mill with a 6 jaw I'd be interested in buying to start making these myself for the platform.
even though a vp 44 injector has a similar spray pattern does it matter that the vp nozzle tip is about .100" longer and sticks down in the cylinder farther than the cr injector. does this allow for more timing because the tip is closer to the dome . or does it need to be changed to a flatter degree spray?
The pattern is with 2-4 degrees depending on the nozzles that are used.
The the deeper protrusion is good with a mechanical engine keeps the fire in the bowl. This is something I will talk about when I get a dyno so I can show the power difference
I need an early 6.7 block. Is it possible to use my 325 injectors in one? 05-07 5.9 injector pattern (the widest bowl)
all the pickup 6.7 is basally the same so. the 325 hp injector pattern is different , you need the 305 style injector to work with it
What piston would be used for a 6.7 vp but who would wana build that haha
isb ( pistons that come in the pickup trucks
Subbed from kamloops
🙏
Can you put a 12v head on a 24v short block
Good information!!!
Glad it was helpful!