This talk is my favorite yet as musical primitivism became one of my favorite genres as i discovered stravinskys rite of spring and its descendents I even found a new one as the schuloff piece is totally new to me I fell in love with ginastera years ago and agree how his experessionist phase was great for musical primitivism...the final movement of his 1st piano concerto is a smoker in this style I think you definitly should follow up on this series because there are many more pieces that fit this category especially the scythian suite of prokofiev and the miraculous mandarin of bartok (with the rite of spring i consider the top trio of this style work...i can listen to these 3 any time) Thank you
You may then be intrigued to know that the Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra (based in a province just west of Bangkok) has actually performed the Ginastera 1st piano concerto, with Argentinian-Canadian Alexander Panizza as soloist, and Brazilian maestra Ligia Amadio on the podium. The final (4th) movement is, as you say, a smoker, but admittedly the movement in which the strings play almost exclusively (oddly-notated) harmonics in glissandi is not an easy read... Atmospheric, certainly.
I have the Goossens LSO "Corroboree" on 3-channel SACD from Everest recorded in 3-track stereo in 1958 by Burt Whyte. It's simply astounding; the performance is fantastic and the sound is reference. It's a 'lease-breaker' performance.
I love these videos. Nice ways to get people to dig a little past the standard "hits". I have an interesting video concept for you. Considering you introduce so many to hidden gems, I think this is right up your alley. Say Disney decides to do another Fantasia, and you find yourself in charge of the music selection. What would be your Fantasia 3?
Great talk, nice way to wake up haha. Wish these pieces got more played live in the concerthall, good way to get the attention of the audience (or scare them off :-) )
These are wonderful choices and I have learned so much from your video. Personally, I also found rhythmic shock+excitement from Xenakis Jonchaies and Norgard Terrains Vagues, like the first time I heard Rite.
GREAT overview. Also John William's music for "Jaws" could be cited. A lot of the most intense scenes are very "Rite-ish," even down to the piccolo yelps at the top of tuttis.
My favorite video of yours, thus far. It's been a while since a composer -- or indeed, music in general -- has made my ears perk up, but these works? Man, they were some wacky fun. Especially Revueltas and Antheil, both of whom I was unfamiliar with until now. And I don't mean to get political, but my views on this cultural appropriation nonsense mirror your own. You know, we're all human in the end, but more than that, we're all expressions of the same consciousness. So our expressions are MEANT to be shared and honored, not with which to further divide different cultures.
There's an inexpensive 6 disc set on Dorian called "Latin America Alive" with Eduardo Mata conducting the Venezuelan Symphony in works of a bunch of Latin/Spanish composers including Revueltas, Ginastera, Chavez and Villa-Lobos. Dave gave 10/10 reviews to at least one of the discs. The sound quality is very good.
Looooots of fun is Ginastera’s “Magical America” Cantata (“Cantata para América Mágica”), which is a sequel to Stravinsky’s “Les Noces”. Brazilian music is quite mellow and not well suited to this primitivistic style, but Villa-Lobos’ “Rudepoema” is undoubtedly influenced by the “Rite of Spring” - but for solo piano! (Well, there’s the composer’s own orchestration, but I don’t find it as effective as the piano version. Richard Rinjvos recently made another orchestral version, which I think is better than Villa-Lobos’)
One work that definitely belongs in the primitivist canon is César Chávez's Sinfonía India (those are New World Indians, not Asian ones, mind you). A good chunk of that Mexican composer's output, much admired by Copland, among others, is also pretty Stravinskian (sometimes in different ways, like neoclassical).
I think George Antheil used the original engine...or at least its propeller...in his Ballet Mecanique, when it was performed in Carnegie Hall (Feb, 1927). Lindbergh's flight was in May, '27. Maybe Antheil was doing a pre-flight test (?) Maybe not.
I wax and wane on how much I actually like The Rite, but I love all of the clangy, bangy sequels you list here. Stravinsky did a great thing but opening the musical world to the sonically discordant. I’m going to have to dust off my Earquake! CD.
Dave, do you know Ponce's Ferial (divertimento sinfónico)? It's a wonderful melange of Mexican music including primitive and it's a banger of an ending.
What about Tasmanian Peter Sculthorpe channeling indigenous Australian music? Who else composed for didgeridoo? There is even a good collection on Naxos.
Not necessarily primitive, unless you consider a volcano the most primitive of earthly sounds, I would recommend the Allegro from the 3rd movement of Alan Hovhanness' "Mount Saint Helen" Symphony.
@@DavesClassicalGuide - similarly, could you identify the sounds in the middle to end part of that excerpt from Antill. It sounded like a blue whale moaning or a squeegee against glass. Or at least that’s what I heard through my phone lol
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This talk is my favorite yet as musical primitivism became one of my favorite genres as i discovered stravinskys rite of spring and its descendents
I even found a new one as the schuloff piece is totally new to me
I fell in love with ginastera years ago and agree how his experessionist phase was great for musical primitivism...the final movement of his 1st piano concerto is a smoker in this style
I think you definitly should follow up on this series because there are many more pieces that fit this category especially the scythian suite of prokofiev and the miraculous mandarin of bartok (with the rite of spring i consider the top trio of this style work...i can listen to these 3 any time)
Thank you
You may then be intrigued to know that the Thailand Philharmonic Orchestra (based in a province just west of Bangkok) has actually performed the Ginastera 1st piano concerto, with Argentinian-Canadian Alexander Panizza as soloist, and Brazilian maestra Ligia Amadio on the podium. The final (4th) movement is, as you say, a smoker, but admittedly the movement in which the strings play almost exclusively (oddly-notated) harmonics in glissandi is not an easy read... Atmospheric, certainly.
I have the Goossens LSO "Corroboree" on 3-channel SACD from Everest recorded in 3-track stereo in 1958 by Burt Whyte. It's simply astounding; the performance is fantastic and the sound is reference. It's a 'lease-breaker' performance.
Another brilliant talk that handily extends the repertoire with which I can get familiar. Thank you.
Anybody on the lookout for primitivist chamber music should check out Ornstein's piano quintet - it's a rip-roaring masterpiece.
Wow! John Antill is a revelation to me.
This video is really entertaining and informative, thank you!
I love these videos. Nice ways to get people to dig a little past the standard "hits". I have an interesting video concept for you. Considering you introduce so many to hidden gems, I think this is right up your alley. Say Disney decides to do another Fantasia, and you find yourself in charge of the music selection. What would be your Fantasia 3?
I think Dave's recommendations for "Fantasia II" would be fascinating.
Great talk, nice way to wake up haha. Wish these pieces got more played live in the concerthall, good way to get the attention of the audience (or scare them off :-) )
These are wonderful choices and I have learned so much from your video. Personally, I also found rhythmic shock+excitement from Xenakis Jonchaies and Norgard Terrains Vagues, like the first time I heard Rite.
Thank you for this outstanding presentation...I'm so excited by these works!
Great video, I knew none of these sequels! Thanks for tirelessly creating informative and entertaining talks.
Dave, yelling at a trucker... love it.
GREAT overview. Also John William's music for "Jaws" could be cited. A lot of the most intense scenes are very "Rite-ish," even down to the piccolo yelps at the top of tuttis.
Hey dave! May i suggest that you make a playlist of "Sequels" videos, because (unless i missed it) there was none. Thanks, and also great video!
Noted!
Stupid me. Of course there is a playlist. ua-cam.com/play/PLAjIX596BriG6Laf2m1AUcFumYAtHT6R8.html
My favorite video of yours, thus far. It's been a while since a composer -- or indeed, music in general -- has made my ears perk up, but these works? Man, they were some wacky fun. Especially Revueltas and Antheil, both of whom I was unfamiliar with until now.
And I don't mean to get political, but my views on this cultural appropriation nonsense mirror your own. You know, we're all human in the end, but more than that, we're all expressions of the same consciousness. So our expressions are MEANT to be shared and honored, not with which to further divide different cultures.
There's an inexpensive 6 disc set on Dorian called "Latin America Alive" with Eduardo Mata conducting the Venezuelan Symphony in works of a bunch of Latin/Spanish composers including Revueltas, Ginastera, Chavez and Villa-Lobos. Dave gave 10/10 reviews to at least one of the discs. The sound quality is very good.
@@Don-md6wn Thanks for the recommendation. I'll be sure to check it out.
Scheherazade goes to Machu Picchu... Quite a combination.~
Here's another post-Stravinskyian piece of "heavy classic": "Act" (2004) by Norwegian composer Rolf Wallin (available on an Ondine CD).
Looooots of fun is Ginastera’s “Magical America” Cantata (“Cantata para América Mágica”), which is a sequel to Stravinsky’s “Les Noces”.
Brazilian music is quite mellow and not well suited to this primitivistic style, but Villa-Lobos’ “Rudepoema” is undoubtedly influenced by the “Rite of Spring” - but for solo piano! (Well, there’s the composer’s own orchestration, but I don’t find it as effective as the piano version. Richard Rinjvos recently made another orchestral version, which I think is better than Villa-Lobos’)
One work that definitely belongs in the primitivist canon is César Chávez's Sinfonía India (those are New World Indians, not Asian ones, mind you). A good chunk of that Mexican composer's output, much admired by Copland, among others, is also pretty Stravinskian (sometimes in different ways, like neoclassical).
I agree, but let's leave some room for a sequel! I already did Revueltas and we were spending a lot of time in Latin America, wonderful thought it is.
That Revueltas. OMG!
Fabulous sounds! Another good example would be Lindberg's Engine (1996).
I think George Antheil used the original engine...or at least its propeller...in his Ballet Mecanique, when it was performed in Carnegie Hall (Feb, 1927). Lindbergh's flight was in May, '27. Maybe Antheil was doing a pre-flight test (?) Maybe not.
@@HassoBenSoba *Magnus Lindberg.
I wax and wane on how much I actually like The Rite, but I love all of the clangy, bangy sequels you list here. Stravinsky did a great thing but opening the musical world to the sonically discordant. I’m going to have to dust off my Earquake! CD.
Ameriques is probably the loudest piece ever. I was so excited to see the CBSO had it on their programme but then c***d happened
Dave, I wonder if Knudåge Riisager’s Quarrtsiluni (also a ballet) is primitivist as well?
I think so.
Invented new topic: music that caused a riot ;-)
The varese sounded good. Now to pull out my earquake cd.
It’s nice to have some music to put the baby to sleep to.
Don't forget Shostakovich's early opera, The Nose- try that one!
Off topic, but I gotta ask: are those orange box sets beside your left ear Dorati's Haydn operas? Been haunting me for a while.
Yes, for about the fiftieth time! (Not your fault, BTW).
@@DavesClassicalGuide You poor man! 🤣😥
@@zenonorth1193 Yes. Pity me.
@@DavesClassicalGuide its so funny how many people have asked you that! Dorati must be smiling in his grave
Dave, do you know Ponce's Ferial (divertimento sinfónico)? It's a wonderful melange of Mexican music including primitive and it's a banger of an ending.
Oh yeah!
What about Tasmanian Peter Sculthorpe channeling indigenous Australian music? Who else composed for didgeridoo? There is even a good collection on Naxos.
We need a James Judd/NZSO box from Naxos 👍
Is that you on the cover of Earquake?
No.
If you are a Pole, Karol Szymanowski's Harnasie is an obvious sequel to The Rite of Spring.
And Daphnis too.
Would Bela Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin fit in this topic?
Sure.
what happened to Mossolov, Ruggles, Grainger [or even Kagel (Exotica) and Xenakis (Oresteia, Pleiades…)… although these are not symphonic]
You tell me.
Hey Scythian Suite by Prokofiev ! Great sequel... I prefer it to the Right !
yep,and Bartok's Miraculous Mandarin too.
Check out Rouse's Gorgon...on YT...Brutal.
If only I had permission to play it, I would have included it. Wow!
I checked it out…..blimey 😊
Not necessarily primitive, unless you consider a volcano the most primitive of earthly sounds, I would recommend the Allegro from the 3rd movement of Alan Hovhanness' "Mount Saint Helen" Symphony.
What are those woof sounds at the beginning of Ginastera’s Popol Vuh?
That's the bass Woofophone.
But seriously, it's a percussion instrument called a Cuica.
@@DavesClassicalGuide - similarly, could you identify the sounds in the middle to end part of that excerpt from Antill. It sounded like a blue whale moaning or a squeegee against glass. Or at least that’s what I heard through my phone lol
I love Revueltas’ Sensamaya...
@@phidelt2 Beats me.
I like Schulhoff and I like sex. But I don't like Schulhoff's sex music... De gustibus non est disputandum.