Well done Michael,very nicely explained. It’s a good 1 to know. How many times us engineers have wasted time on fault finding and led up the garden path chasing errors that don’t make sense.👍
Another interesting video, thanks for sharing. I've had the edge lit led strips fail, but that was because they became detached from their heatsink. The displays are used in a large touchscreen ticket vending machine and was on 24/7 for about 5 years before it failed
Thank you for sharing this interesting and educational video with us. It surprises me that the TV can't be more precise with its self-diagnosis. It narrows the issue down to three possible things - why can't it give the exact cause in some way as surely that would make things much easier when it comes to repair?
Thanks again for taking us through the process of diagnosing the problem! Sometimes you just have to accept that it’s almost impossible to find the real cause but my guess that there is some leakage current in the old backlight, due to a defective led. It might be possible to find it with a milli ohm meter, but repairing would be impossible. Great job with the sellotape! That’s one to remember!
I have a 2011 32" bravia, its been on for 8 hours a day since 2012 and is still perfect, absolutely brill televisions with ace black levels, mine has the sony X-Reality chip so watching films in 24p is as smooth as butter, its also got active 3D which works wonderfully well. sony are the only brand i would ever buy for televisions, theyre expensive but well worth it.
The entry level Sony HD and 4K models (at least last year) were actually rebranded Philips/TPV models with a Sony remote control which is why they didn’t mention their own picture engine chip and just called it Bravia Engine which just means generic chip. I don’t know what they’re like but Philips were usually good and so are TPV, a Taiwanese company with many decades experience. At the time of your Sony, the only upscaling chip I liked as much as XReality was Toshiba’s own one which they made at the time which was in direct competition with Sony in Japan. It was very similar. Now, most TVs look great because of the MediaTek chips doing the work.
@@interstat2222 Yes sony and philips have worked together for many many years even going back to the days of TOSLINK and development of the CD itself along with minidisc, both excellent manufacturers. Same goes for the old pye/philips tvs of the 80s, they were excellent
Hello Michael thank you for yet another interesting video. I assume the backlight controller IC drives the LED strip with a constant current source, the only thing it can do to set the constant current is adjust the voltage it applies across the strip. It would be interesting to check the current is within the limits it is expecting and check the voltage it has applied across the whole strip and then the voltage drop across each individual LED. I wonder if these side LED strips are run at a higher power and if they are aging in a way that the standard backlights that distribute the illumination over the LCD area do not. What ever is going on its not magic and ABing the voltages of the old and replacement LED strips won't tell you what is going wrong in the semiconductor material but it will tell you why the controller doesn't like it. Hope this is of interest. Keep up the good work. Robert
A great fault find Mike I would put the old LED strip on a test bed to measure each ones current and voltage drop sounds like the protec. cct is too critical
Coming up to 20,000 hrs on our kd65 bravo. Not stopped yet but can't be to much longer. My criticism of this tv is it needed a faster processor and more memory. Start up time is same as 60s valve tv. Hope our replacement in a few years is faster.
Hi Michael, great work on that sony. Just a question. Could the fault be with the led strip, not over voltage , but over current ?? Could be due to one of the series leds starting to fail and draw a little bit more current than normal and causing this type of problem. Best wishes from Tasmania Australia.
I think the problem is the LED s are dual types as they have a forward voltage of about 6 volts instead of the usually 3 v so although they all appear to be lit one is not actually lit , but next time I get one of these with this fault the plan is to measure the forward voltage of all the LEDs just to prove the theory
I only deal with one company now , everyone else I use to have accounts with have either closed down or gone bust , I got the strip from ASWO in France
I've got a similiar fault here, same model but made a few months later. Freeview works fine, chromecast runs fine streaming 4k UA-cam video. However, as soon as I plug in the 4k Freesat box, it appears on screen, backlight flashes and the set reboots a a few times and displays the 6 re blinks. How do you run the diagnostics on this TV?
I wonder if the 4v reading is relatively momentary and you just missed it? I'm aware the capacitor is supposed to slowly charge but maybe it's a bit faster than that and just has a second or so at 4v before discharging again through the IC.
A possibility, perhaps. I briefly read the datasheet and it seems the shortest charge time for the capacitor can be 6 cycles at 200kHz and then it discharges in 3 cycles. I stopped reading when I saw the formula and register setting for determining that time which also varies depending on the test and fail condition. No disrespect to Michael (I could be talking rubbish, in my day electron guns did the backlight).
Thanks so much for you help, but I have a question please. After using the sellotape to cover the line 5, my TV works, my question is this... CAN I continue using the TV like this until I purchase the LED BARS? Kindly let me know as I don't want to damage the the TV. I will really appreciate your response.
Yes you can continue to use the set with the protection disabled while you wait for new LED bars but don't forget to remove the Sellotape after fitting the new bars.
LEDs have two chips inside, and one of them isn't working. Hard to see with looking at them, would have to measure forward voltage from each one. Failure causes voltage imbalance between strings.
I had sony logo 3 times then 6 times blinking error , i replaceed the led strips and now surprise... now i have no picture no sony logo just backlight 3 times thsn 5 times blinking.😡
Could be a faulty led strip, I always test the bars before re fitting the LCD panel, a couple of times I have had brand new bars that have gone through re flow and a solder joint has been missed.
Well done Michael,very nicely explained. It’s a good 1 to know. How many times us engineers have wasted time on fault finding and led up the garden path chasing errors that don’t make sense.👍
With everything been software driven it's a lot harder to diagnose faults and much easier to be led down the wrong path.
Another interesting video, thanks for sharing.
I've had the edge lit led strips fail, but that was because they became detached from their heatsink. The displays are used in a large touchscreen ticket vending machine and was on 24/7 for about 5 years before it failed
The heat generated dries out the glue backing to the heat sink and without any heat sinking they have a very short life.
Thank you for sharing this interesting and educational video with us. It surprises me that the TV can't be more precise with its self-diagnosis. It narrows the issue down to three possible things - why can't it give the exact cause in some way as surely that would make things much easier when it comes to repair?
I know what you mean, I have a Panasonic not to long ago telling me something was the problem and it was completely wrong.
This model was very popular for Sony.
The R series from same year was essentially the same TV as far as I know.
Wonderful analysis , you've still got the touch Michael 👍👍.
only just , I much preferred the CRT days .
Thanks again for taking us through the process of diagnosing the problem! Sometimes you just have to accept that it’s almost impossible to find the real cause but my guess that there is some leakage current in the old backlight, due to a defective led. It might be possible to find it with a milli ohm meter, but repairing would be impossible.
Great job with the sellotape! That’s one to remember!
A little bit tricky to get the sellotape in the right place but better than cutting print.
Thanks Mike, had a fair few intermittent leds with edge lits. Lg being the worst to diagnose
Yes, I have had quite a few edge lit LG sets with light failure, sometimes they run for 20 minutes before tripping out.
I have a 2011 32" bravia, its been on for 8 hours a day since 2012 and is still perfect, absolutely brill televisions with ace black levels, mine has the sony X-Reality chip so watching films in 24p is as smooth as butter, its also got active 3D which works wonderfully well. sony are the only brand i would ever buy for televisions, theyre expensive but well worth it.
The entry level Sony HD and 4K models (at least last year) were actually rebranded Philips/TPV models with a Sony remote control which is why they didn’t mention their own picture engine chip and just called it Bravia Engine which just means generic chip. I don’t know what they’re like but Philips were usually good and so are TPV, a Taiwanese company with many decades experience.
At the time of your Sony, the only upscaling chip I liked as much as XReality was Toshiba’s own one which they made at the time which was in direct competition with Sony in Japan. It was very similar.
Now, most TVs look great because of the MediaTek chips doing the work.
@@interstat2222 Yes sony and philips have worked together for many many years even going back to the days of TOSLINK and development of the CD itself along with minidisc, both excellent manufacturers.
Same goes for the old pye/philips tvs of the 80s, they were excellent
Only downside to Sony is the parts are generally twice as much as other brands.
Well done Michael tricky faults really well explained thank you for sharing
Many thanks for that.
Hello Michael thank you for yet another interesting video. I assume the backlight controller IC drives the LED strip with a constant current source, the only thing it can do to set the constant current is adjust the voltage it applies across the strip. It would be interesting to check the current is within the limits it is expecting and check the voltage it has applied across the whole strip and then the voltage drop across each individual LED. I wonder if these side LED strips are run at a higher power and if they are aging in a way that the standard backlights that distribute the illumination over the LCD area do not. What ever is going on its not magic and ABing the voltages of the old and replacement LED strips won't tell you what is going wrong in the semiconductor material but it will tell you why the controller doesn't like it. Hope this is of interest. Keep up the good work. Robert
For some reason edge lit sets seem to be more reliable but when they do go wrong symptoms are more confusing than back-lit.
Excellent video, so well explained. Any recommendations for good reliable supplier of back light strips etc. (Hopefully UK)
I only have one supplier now, ASWO in France, next day delivery but it costs nearley £10 for delivery.
Thanks Michael what a weird fault, thanks for the great explanation, it’s certainly opened my eyes that’s for sure 😊
No problem, many thanks for watching.
@@michaeldranfield7140 you’re welcome ☺️
A great fault find Mike I would put the old LED strip on a test bed to measure each ones current and voltage drop sounds like the protec. cct is too critical
Seems to be very fast acting, set has never come back though so new LEDs cured the problem.
thanks for shareing your knowledge michael .
Many thanks for watching
perfect love your work extremely informative thanks for sharing
Many thanks for that
Coming up to 20,000 hrs on our kd65 bravo.
Not stopped yet but can't be to much longer.
My criticism of this tv is it needed a faster processor and more memory.
Start up time is same as 60s valve tv.
Hope our replacement in a few years is faster.
Although slower older sets were much more reliable.
Hi Michael, great work on that sony. Just a question. Could the fault be with the led strip, not over voltage , but over current ?? Could be due to one of the series leds starting to fail and draw a little bit more current than normal and causing this type of problem. Best wishes from Tasmania Australia.
I think the problem is the LED s are dual types as they have a forward voltage of about 6 volts instead of the usually 3 v so although they all appear to be lit one is not actually lit , but next time I get one of these with this fault the plan is to measure the forward voltage of all the LEDs just to prove the theory
Excellent works and again thank you for sharing 😊!
Many thanks for that.
Where did you get the LED strip from I'm trying to look for a placement for my TV because it's doing the same thing it's a sony bravia kdl32we613
I only deal with one company now , everyone else I use to have accounts with have either closed down or gone bust , I got the strip from ASWO in France
I've got a similiar fault here, same model but made a few months later. Freeview works fine, chromecast runs fine streaming 4k UA-cam video. However, as soon as I plug in the 4k Freesat box, it appears on screen, backlight flashes and the set reboots a a few times and displays the 6 re blinks. How do you run the diagnostics on this TV?
you just need the service manual , all the error codes are listed , think I would have a look if there is a software download from Sony first.
surprised to see something from Sony to fail.I have a Sony LCD TV since 2002 and had no problems.
Bound to happen eventually with some of them. It was a big selling model.
This set is a few years old so I guess it had to fail sometime.
Great!!! Mr. Dranfield... Thanks to share...
Many thanks for that.
I have this exact same issue.
I'm UK based, what edge LEDs should I order??
Great video.
I wonder if the 4v reading is relatively momentary and you just missed it? I'm aware the capacitor is supposed to slowly charge but maybe it's a bit faster than that and just has a second or so at 4v before discharging again through the IC.
A possibility, perhaps. I briefly read the datasheet and it seems the shortest charge time for the capacitor can be 6 cycles at 200kHz and then it discharges in 3 cycles. I stopped reading when I saw the formula and register setting for determining that time which also varies depending on the test and fail condition. No disrespect to Michael (I could be talking rubbish, in my day electron guns did the backlight).
I suspect the chip is detecting an imbalance in the led string and the trip is very fast acting.
Hello ! did you just isolate the fifth wire on the cable and the problem went away?
Buen trabajo 🧐👌
Many thanks for watching.
it may be the 4v on the cap gets pulled down when it trips? so only appears for a short time,
Great work Michael. Could it have been increased current? In any case youre still a wizard
I would think some in balance in the LEDs triggered it.
Thanks so much for you help, but I have a question please. After using the sellotape to cover the line 5, my TV works, my question is this... CAN I continue using the TV like this until I purchase the LED BARS? Kindly let me know as I don't want to damage the the TV.
I will really appreciate your response.
Yes you can continue to use the set with the protection disabled while you wait for new LED bars but don't forget to remove the Sellotape after fitting the new bars.
@@michaeldranfield7140 Thanks so much for your helpful response. I really appreciate it
sorry if it took a while to reply but im getting overwhelmed by comments .@@Florence_Nakie
@@michaeldranfield7140 I do understand and really appreciate your time
I have 4 sony tvs there all very good still have the Sony KDL40V4000 to
The older Sony sets were the best.
@michaeldranfield7140 I resold the sharp one still have the 40 inch Sony which is in my latest video.
Great video. best wishes.
Many thanks for that
LEDs have two chips inside, and one of them isn't working. Hard to see with looking at them, would have to measure forward voltage from each one. Failure causes voltage imbalance between strings.
That is what I would have thought, imbalance and the trip is very fast acting.
Boot loop does the screen just show the logo on off ie in a loop
yes in some sets, but in this Sony its not actually a bootloop as the sony switches off and tries again and after 3 failed attempts locks out .
What causes a lcd tv to not start up unless i unplug and plug back in only then it comes on straight away.
Could be anything, power supply or software issue.
I had sony logo 3 times then 6 times blinking error , i replaceed the led strips and now surprise... now i have no picture no sony logo just backlight 3 times thsn 5 times blinking.😡
Could be a faulty led strip, I always test the bars before re fitting the LCD panel, a couple of times I have had brand new bars that have gone through re flow and a solder joint has been missed.
@@michaeldranfield7140 its not the led strips all leds lights up 3 times before standby led blinking 5 times
I fix it, was bad ribbon connection between mainboard and display.