Pinion Bearing Preload Isn't Created By A Crush Sleeve!
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- If you've ever rebuilt, re-geared, or fixed a pinion seal on a differential, you've likely monkeyed with a pinion crush sleeve. But do you know the purpose of the pinion crush sleeve?
Most people think it's to set the pre-load on the pinion bearings, but it does not. People are just repeating what they've been told by the automotive industry. And I don't believe the automotive industry is trying to mislead anyone, they are just trying to use terminology that gearheads will understand. A crush sleeve or spacer/shims is not needed to establish pinion bearing preload. You can set the preload without it even installed. The problem is that if you set the preload without it installed, there wont be enough backpressure on the pinion nut to keep it from loosening. So the crush sleeve is added to put back pressure on the outer bearing inner race, which puts pressure on the yoke, which puts pressure on the pinion nut.
The only thing that crush sleeve is doing is acting like a lock washer for your pinion nut. It's adding back pressure to your pinion nut so it wont back off, causing you to lose pinion bearing preload. But it does not create preload. It just helps maintain it by keeping the nut from backing off.
I never knew Bert Kreischer was so knowledgeable on rear ends.
Burnt Chrysler 😎
Bart kreshler
@@freedomworxno way, this is the first vid I saw of this man and I already like him way more then Bert.
He’s not as annoying in this video you.
No wonder they call him THE MACHINE!!! 😂😂
Thank you. I have been teaching that for thirty years and it always leads to an argument. Old myths die hard.
I’ve received everything except death threats for this video 😉
You use tension to crush it and set the space between the races so that they do not spin , that makes it a tension component .
The backlash is determined by how much you crush it ,because backlash does not go JUST back , it goes forward as well .
So you have a nut on the back and a crush sleeve on the front .
Delete the crush sleeve especially if adding more power or tire size. Buy or make a shim spacer kit. It may take a few tries to get proper preload but once it’s set you can put full torque on the pinion nut and it’ll stay
Diesel pulling truck make can make well over 2000ft-lbs of torque and run a crush sleeve in there diffs. Torque cannot collapse a crush sleeve. It's a myth 😉
Why
Thank you I never gave it much deep thought but your 100 percent right so essentially the crush sleeve makes the bearings do the work by capturing the inner races and making them spin as one with the pinion gear to avoid having a spun bearing on the pinion shaft Thanks again
Pretty Much 👍
I learned something!
Not everyday that I can say that a UA-cam video taught me somethings useful... maybe I am watching the wrong videos.
Thanks!
Thanks for watching 😎👍
You are. Plenty of good info out here
That's why if you overload the crush sleeve you have to replace it... once it deforms a certain amount it loses its elasticity. Lock washers do the same thing and you're supposed to replace them when removed.
I'm a slacker. A lock-washer has to be pretty flar for me to scrap it 😂
Short , concise , and to the exaxt point.
That is what deserves a subscriber !
Thanks for the support 👍
Nice touch with the pointer love it
It’s a tactical pointer 😎
I like how he was using a bullet as a pointer
Merica! 😎🇺🇸
Time out! Soooo that sleeve changes dimension… as you tighten it the sleeve “shortens”… hence resulting in the outer bearing to move closer into the housing which increases the pre-load. Am I crazy??? Right??? Idk…
That’s correct. But that also happens if the crush sleeve isn’t even there. Hence the point of my video. Bearing preload isn’t a function of the crush sleeve, that’s not what it’s for.
@@freedomworxI’ve read several of your reply comments and it definitely is leading me to believe you truly are an idiot. 💯 😂
I was taught to take a center punch and mark thr yoke , pinion nut and pinion before you removed the nut.
This way you tighten the nut again you line up the marks and then go a little tighter.
Never had a problem.
I do the same. I also use a micrometer to measure thread protrusion through the pinion nut. I’m a little anal. 🤓
I replaced my leaking pinion seal with a new one then used my harbor freight 1/2 impact to set the nut back on . How screwed am I ??? What are my options?? Thank you
@DeathByNature23 well if your diff is the type that has a solid spacer instead of a crush sleeve, you’re fine. If your diff has a crush sleeve… pretty well screwed. The only way to get it right is to disassemble it completely (pull the axles and carrier) install a fresh crush sleeve, and set it to the proper preload (rotational torque) with the carrier out of the diff, then reassemble it. Sorry.
@@freedomworxThat was younger me once 😂
Drivelines do be expensive when the while deal goes *poof*
Tranny rear housing, tcase, yoke, drive shaft, rear yoke, etc.
I love spending money 🥴
@@DeathByNature23 thats what i did😢
First i marked and matched the marks on the nut. Too loose.
Than i looked at the pic i took of the threads and i swear i had like 4 threads visible on the pic instead of the three i was at on the marked nut. So i was starting to impact it to get one more rotation and i ruined it. Its my 1st time. I dropped the front diff and opened it up, tonight im installing crush sleeve and wheel see how it goes.
This started from a leaking pinion seal😢😢😢😢😢
IMO the ability to change the pinion seal with zero chance of changing the bearing preload is worth the extra set up time. I install crush sleeve eliminators IE shim packs for this very reason. Add to that the replacing a damaged yoke or changing to a different yoke type or size with zero concern of jacking with preload.
That’s the reason crush sleeve eliminators exist. People think their function is to replace the “weak” crush sleeve. But like you said, they are for improving serviceability. And they are great for offroad rigs that routinely damage yokes. 👍
The reason I like crush sleeves that its very easy to service the pinion preload. Pop the carrier, do some work like replace posi clutches, nip up the pinion nut a little more to get preload back in spec and good to go. There are pros and cons of each setup.
@@joey66436Agree but the easy to change part is also the negative IMO. If your not dropping the carrier out, you are really just winging it on the preload. They both work, I have used and worked on both, I still prefer shims over crush sleeve.(Not the install LOL the end result)
that crush is to expand and contract while under use.. Hot and cold cycles.. yes you could not run one but its there for expansion. to keep the same preload at any temp. If it was not needed you think that gm, ford ect would save 3 dollars per unit per mill trucks they sell.. As it gets hot with no crush the preload goes lower. with crush the heat and thin crush keeps pre-load correct..
The preload doesn’t change with temp, with or with a crush sleeve. Every part of that assembly is made from steel/iron, which all have nearly the exact coefficient of thermal expansion. Thus they all expand at the same rate and the tolerances never change. It has nothing to do with thermal expansion.
Gives the ability to preload correct tension on bearings
It’s not needed to create preload though.
Not really needed but there to aid bearing not being overloaded, keeping some form of pressure until full installation
They use crush sleeve in large truck hubs. Conmet hub. Same principle. Keeps constant tension on nut through the inner bearing race.
If not torqued and crushed correctly the wheels come off at 65mph. 😊
So just don't drive 65mph 😂. 64 or 66, but never 65!
The crush collar is there to keep the bearings from overtightening into the race the nut is a lock nut and replace it every time you take it off bearing preload overtighten it the bearings burn up
You are looking at it backwards. What's the purpose of tightening the nut so tight? It's a lock nut, right? So why make it so tight???
@@freedomworxthe purpose is to crush the sleeve until there is typically 15-25 inch pounds required to turn the pinion. Sometimes it takes less torque on the nut and sometimes more to get to the required preload. You are correct that it does keep the inner races from turning but that isn’t the ONLY thing the sleeve does. You are glaring over the obvious reason WHY it is called a crush sleeve. There are guys that make solid sleeves but you still have to check preload. There are several advantages as once you get the correct shims you don’t have to worry about over torquing the pinion nut. The pinion can also be removed without requiring a new crush sleeve and you could also replace the yoke without having to replace the crush sleeve. You talk a lot of crap like no one in the comments knows anything. You probably are a smart individual but don’t act like you know it all. Everyone hates a know it all.
@supersportimpalass not sure what you think I glared over. I simply stated that the crush sleeve has nothing to do with the preload you are trying to measure. You can leave it out and the rotation torque 15-25in-lb is still there. It does not create preload, which most people think it does. I’m not acting like nobody in the comments knows anything, but most of them don’t know this. Most people who have been building diffs their entire life don’t even understand it.
@@supersportimpalass finally a comment that makes sense.
@@freedomworx I believe you are mistaken in what you “believe“ people think. That’s the whole problem with your stupid video. Just because the crush sleeve doesn’t have to be in to get preload doesn’t prove anything or make you more intelligent than any other person with the grasp on what a crush sleeve actually does.
I see what your saying but... imagine Putting together a diff without the crush sleeve or solid pinion bearing spacer for preload. Let us know how that goes..
Never said to leave it out. I explained it's purpose. But there are plenty of racers that do just that.
the crush sleeve is a spring, as the bearings wear it maintains some preload which makes the bearings last longer. I see the inner and outer bearing have spun quite often.
Yeah, I’ve seen several outers spin.
So by your theory, the crush sleeve does not compress. Does that mean that, prior to manufacturer's suggestion, the crush sleeve is reusable?
The crush sleeve certainly compresses.
Thank you thank you thank you!!! Finally I understand what that crush sleeve is for and it actually makes sense!
Thanks for watching 👍
Really , hmmmm, all those years as an apprentice and all the books are wrong !!! Buddy it's setting the lash on the ring gear , the sleeve starts out at max length , the reason the outside bearing has no interference is so it can move inwards thus moving the pinion gear relative to the ring gear , in or out moves the pinion gear closer or further away from the ring gear setting lash , not a lock washer !
Well I guess all my years as an engineer and all those patent documents are wrong 🤷🏻♂️ It doesn’t set ring gear lash. Backlash is set by adjusting the carrier position. Never once have I moved the pinion depth to set backlash. You set the pattern with the pinion depth and backlash with the carrier adjustment. And the crush sleeve has zero effect on either of those in this differential. The reason that the outer pinion bearing has no/little interference is so you can actually get the pinion out of the housing without having to use a hydraulic press… It does exactly what I said it does. If you don’t believer me, go research the plethora of crush sleeve patents out there and draw your own conclusion. But don’t base your conclusion on books and instruction that were written in layman’s terms so technicians could understand enough to install the parts.
@@freedomworx crap ,
THANK YOU. Jezuz, thank you. FINALLY somebody explains it correctly. I've screwed pinion nuts down with NO crush collar at all (and no shims) and they work just freaking fine so long as the pinion nut NEVER backs off even the slightest bit (Loctite is your friend).
Science 🤓
You are so wrong It keeps the two bearings from being over tightened if the bearings come loose the pinion will jump into the ring gear and wreck everything
Why would the bearings come loose??? I think you need to think about the system a couple steps farther than you are. Why are you tightening the nut so much if it's a locknut??? The differential holds the bearings apart, the nut pushes them closer together.
It's funny. I've been reading up on and looking at videos on the Dana 44 / M226 axle and no one actually explained why the crush sleeve was there or why the eliminator kit was required. A UA-cam Shorts video concisely explained what a couple of hours of other videos never did.
Glad you got something out of it 👍
Two things are going on here, first it keeps the inner race from spinning, second you would never tighten the pinion nut tight without smashing the bearings if you didn't attempt to hold the bearings apart
Pretty much.
I like the way you explained this, but to call it a lockwasher for the pinion nut is oversimplification. What if there is no sleeve? If there is no crush sleeve or straight sleeve, all resistance to compression of the pinion nut comes from pressure on the outer bearing cages through their outer races. So, one side of each bearing will have pressure on the outer cage, and the other side will have pressure on the inner cage. That causes torsional stress on the weakest part of a bearing, the sheet metal that makes up the cage, eventually distorting it. Just like when you press a bearing off, you need to apply pressure to the correct race so it won't twist and damage the cage. So, you need a sleeve to balance torsional pressures on the two bearing cages. The crush sleeve shrinks to get the distance perfect but otherwise works exactly like a simple sleeve.
I’m not sure what you are trying to get at. All the preload in these bearings comes from the pinion nut. The crush sleeve literally opposes preload. You can’t have any more pressure on the bearings cone, rollers, or inner race. It’s physically impossible.
WTF did you just say? A whole lot of nothing.
@@ronniecox109 I appreciate this is not easy to understand, and my poorly worded remark didn't help. Anyway, you go ahead and put a lock washer on your pinion nut, and leave the crush washer out. See what happens. There's a reason that all manufacturers went through the effort to place the sleeve where it is, and it goes far beyond a simple lock washer analogy.
@@spelunkerd nobody ever said to leave it out 🤷🏻♂️
@@spelunkerd oh I've set up hundreds of diffys, and the crush sleeve must be there. On GM diffs, the washer is a flat washer, and the nut is a prevailing torque , locknut.
Finally someone that knows the whole principle of the crush 😎🤘
Well the last guy to comment sees things differently. He’s built over 5,000 diffs so his word is bible. He literally started his comment with “Ok really expert here” so you had to know it was going to be insightful 😂.
This is why solid pinion sleeves exist.
The only thing a solid spacer does is make it take longer to setup 😂. That being said, you have no worries about preload if you ever need to pull the yoke to replace a seal. Solid spacers making it stronger is another internet myth. Change my mind 😉
@@freedomworx because lf the curvature of the ring gear gear teeth and pinion teeth, there is a perpendicular force as well as a linear force applied to the pinion that tries to push and pull the pinion in and out of the case. That movement causes the pinion bearings out of alignment and breaks pinion teeth. The solid spacer allows the application of a much higher tension on the bearings thus keeping alignment in place during high torque scenarios. The crush sleeve cannot do this do to its inherent design. This is also why solid spacers are used with shims to get the correct amount of bearing preasure on the races. Many teeth that are broken on pinion gears are not broken due to weak parts but misalignment at critical events.
So you think the pinion shaft bends under load?
@@freedomworx no.
Maybe watch the video again. The bearings will see the same amount of preload with or without a crush sleeve or spacer. They have zero affect on the preload on the bearings. The only affect they have is on the pinion nut torque. If you left the sleeve or spacer out, tightened down the nut to the appropriate rotational torque (bearing preload) and welded the nut to the pinion, it would be just as strong as having a spacer in there. It does not affect bearing preload… It just keeps the nut tight. It’s that simple. The crush sleeve or spacer see no load from the power applied to the rear end. 100% of the load is controlled by the tapered bearings. You can not crush a sleeve from overloading the rear end.
I’m not so sure removing the sleeve is a good idea. I don’t know much about it, but judging from its shape, it looks like it’s got some spring and allows one to set the end play of the bearing assembly by tightening or loosening the nut. And ensures too much “negative end play”. Removing the sleeve would make the end play different value and may not meet what the preload or end play needs to be. Which may work for some time, but may result in bearing failure. What’s the point of leaving it out anyway? Weight reduction?
Never suggested leaving it out. I’m simply stating that it doesn’t do what people think it does.
I always use machined spacers instead of the crush sleeve on high performance rebuilds. If it will be disassembled for maintenance on a regular basis the sleeve is a giant pain
No doubt. A solid spacer definitely makes maintenance easier 👍
It’s only a problem if the pinion nut gets over torqued, but I still like a new sleeve whenever it’s removed.
I've never reused one, But i wouldn't be scared to use a press to lengthen a used one out and resuse it in a pinch.
I feel... SO MUCH BETTER about the last time i fucked up a crush sleeve and just said fuggit and sent it anyway.
Oh, it’s still a bad deal. 👀 probably should have fixed that 🤓
Thanks for explaining that. Always thought it had to do with pinon depth/proper contact patch, but didn't really know.
Let me see if i got it straight: The crush sleeve pushes back on the yoke bearing inner race due to it's modulus of elasticity (springiness) keeping it from spinning when the pinion shaft warms up and expands during use and when the bearings have worn a little. As well as giving the lock nut a skosh (technical term meaning 1/2 of a "tad") of additional opposing pressure on the locknut increasing thread friction. Right?
Well warming up won’t really affect anything. The pinion, bearings, crush sleeve, etc…, all have the same or very similar coefficients of thermal expansion. So they will all expand together. But the rest is pretty much accurate 👍
im not sure you understand my guy, you dont need a crush sleeve or crush sleeve eliminator, just use loctite 620.
I understand just fine. Some people have been successful without running one, others were not. I’m not recommending anyone go without.
Loctite?? What the hell man, don't you own a welder? Do it right, and throw some 7018 in there like a boss. 😂
hell yea@@shawn6632
Nice video man! Love the way you break it down and actually explain it cuz you know what you're talking about
Well a lot of the “pros” will say I don’t. They get butt hurt when an internet nobody in a home garage understands things better than they do 😂😎. Thanks for watching 👍
@freedomworx keep it up brother!!
solid spacer and shims the only way to go
Crush sleeves work just fine. Servicing a pinion yoke or seal is certainly easier with a solid though.
The crush sleeve eliminator and shim kits are much nicer and stronger
Are you one of those people that thinks HP/Torque/Big Tires/Drag Strips… can collapse a crush sleeve? Asking for a friend. 😉
30-06 pointer...nice touch
I honestly can’t remember what round that was. Probably not a 30-06, because I’ve never owned one. Might be a 260, 270, 7mm RUM, who knows. Either way, it was a bullet, because… Murica 😎🇺🇸
I just assembled an F250 front pumpkin with a new crush sleeve, it sounds good together.
I built the Super Duty Axles under my Excursion, definitely used new crush sleeves in them😉
But they help keep inner race from spinning on shaft.
Fact
Thank you for your hard work making that video keep up the good work have a blessed day! 😊
Thanks for watching 👍
but if the preload was correctly set and you crush the crush sleeve more, your preload is now out of spec.
But that has nothing to do with the crush sleeve. It’s now out of spec because you advanced the bearings too far into their races. And that would be the same even if the crush sleeve wasn’t there.
You are smart af. Been a tech for 15 years and did not know this. Thanks!
I appreciate it brother. That’s just one of those things that it doesn’t make sense to teach folks. It would just confuse a lot of people.
I was on the fence about giving you a thumbs up, then *pointer*
All about the Protien 😉
It doesn't aid in "setting preload" but keeps preload seat.I agree, but It's kinda potato patato argument😅
Maybe 😉
This would have been a good video to see 2 months ago I just done all this and couldn't figure out if I dome it right until now
Maybe it’ll help next time 👍
So, how do you set preload without it ?? I made the mistake of not using one, and guess what?? I could not get the preload to where it needed to be without it.
I set the preload without one in place every time I set up a set of gears. I don’t install it until the final assembly after I have made adjustments to get the gear pattern correct.
Great explanation
Thanks for watching 👍
Best pointer ever…!
Murica 🇺🇸
Thank you sir, excellent explanation.
Thanks for watching 👍
Hello. It is possible to make a hole in the pinion shaft and put cotter pins to lock the nut if the nut started to unscrew?
Wouldn't really help. If it backs off just a few thousandths, the damage is already done. It needs to stay exactly here its at.
So what’s best practice when needing to retighten the pinion nut? The one video I watched on how to change pinion seal never mentioned preload or how important it was to make sure nut went back on exactly same depth, usually marked beforehand …so ya, dealing with a loose pinion nut now, just retorque to spec?
If your pinion nut is loose, you have a problem that needs to be addressed, besides the pinion nut. They don’t just come loose. Sometimes the nut didn’t actually move, the bearings actually failed or have worn. Or if you have a bad driveshaft vibe, that could cause a nut to loosen, or cause the bearings to wear or fail. I don’t know of any way to just tighten a loose nut. The only way to do it properly is to disassemble the diff and measure the rotational torque. That’s obviously quite a bit more involved than just dropping the driveshaft and tightening it up. You can cinch it down and pray. If it’s not tight enough, the bearings will fail. If it’s too tight, the bearings will fail 🤷🏻♂️
@@freedomworx When I changed the seal out over a year ago I never properly tightened the pinion nut after replacing the seal, I never knew about preload, and even then I always thought to myself “man I didn’t tighten that like I could have, hopefully it’s enough” and planned on tightening it but never did cuz all seemed fine, up until about a month ago, the click started but nothing else, smooth all the way up to 80 even when hammering on it, took me forever to find out what it was, I tightened it some (not to the 210 spec cuz I couldn’t get a good angle to torque it) and even the 160 I did hit made a difference. But ya I I’m going to disassemble it next week when I can also get new parts. Ty for the heads up and info, helps a lot 🤙🏻 I want it proper 🦾
Thanks for this video, I am sure you are right. I just have one question, how is it possible to over crush a crush sleeve? Wouldn't the bearing inner and outer races touch and stop the crush sleeve from crushing? Is it the axial deflection of the pinion shaft under tension?
The bearings can be compressed beyond where they should be to attain the appropriate preload. So far that it deforms the bearing rollers and races enough that you cant rotate the pinion by hand. Your engine could turn them, but they would burn up in short order. When you run the nut down far enough to cause that amount of preload, the crush sleeve gets collapsed too far. We are talking about a very small amount here. Like thousandths of an inch.
556 cartridge as a pointer😂😂
That one is a few mm’s bigger 😉
Just like the spacer between the bearings of motorcycle wheels.
Prossibly
I installed my pinion with the crush sleeve, and got too much preload on accident (50in lbs). I backed the pinion nut off just a little bit to get the pinion preload in spec (20in lbs). Is my crush sleeve no longer putting pressure on the bearings and likely needs to be replaced? Pinion preload is good, but worried the bearings won't have any pressure on them from the crush sleeve.
Yep, you need to replace the crush sleeve. It might be fine, but that outer bearing inner race is much more likely to spin and cause it to loose preload eventually.
Solid spacer for the win.
Pros and cons to both 👍
An adjustable one time use lock washer
Something like that 👍
Ok I Was About To Argue With You. Glad There Was An Explanation haha
Science...probably 🤓
Woah, Woah, WOAH... You got awfully close to reloading that pinion. CAREFUL NOW! lool.
I reload bullets,not pinion bearings 😉
@@freedomworx woooosh... which UA-cam deactives accounts for... lol
@@BrokenSmokinSpokes that’s why I don’t do it on the UA-cams 😂😂. I get the joke now 🤓
I kinda figured that, thanks for clarifying this 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Glad it helped.
This Declaration is dependent upon Which Manufacturers Differential you are working on .
There Are some out here that DO .
Can you point me to a diff where it isn’t true?
Right on Bert
I’m Burnt…Burnt Chrysler 😎
Thanks for making this video.
Thanks for watching 👍
Awesome explanation man thanks.
It’s not thou.
Thanks for watching 👍
Have you ever measured the before and after length with a caliper? Just curious, have you ever over crushed one and uncrushed it with a press because save 50 bucks?
If feel like they only cost about $10. Personally, the only reason I’d ever do that is if it were Sunday night and I couldn’t procure a new one and I didn’t want to wait around.
@freedomworx ah you are not familiar with the mopar tax where a crush sleeve is 50-60$.
Damn Taxes 😂
So when I paid extra for the Solid pinion spacer you telling me I didn't need it?
No. You need something there. Be it a spacer or a crush sleeve. I stated the purpose of the crush sleeve. A solid spacer does the same thing, but has the added benefit of making a pinion seal replacement stress free, because you know the preload will be correct when it goes back together. But that’s literally all it does for you. People that think HP (torque really) can collapse a crush sleeve don’t understand differentials. There are sled pulling trucks with over 2000lb-ft of torque that can’t collapse them. You might fail a bearing and lose preload, but you aren’t collapsing that sleeve with torque.
@freedomworx right on man!!! If you're in northern California in the next 3 weeks. How about I pay you $25 to put mine together?¿?????
I prefer to use the crush sleeve.
Me too
Whats odd is that my bearing by the yoke does not slide on all the way to the crush washer, it has to be pressed in. The bearing by the pinion is a press in too.
Outer pinion bearings do not need to be pressed on. If it needed to be pressed on, you’d never be able to get it back out of the diff.
@@freedomworx I took my outer bearing off using the press. I supported the pinion carrier and then pushed the pinion shaft out to remove the yoke and outer bearing. This guy shows "pressing" on the outer bearing: ua-cam.com/video/4OT6ogOJpLM/v-deo.html&ab_channel=WarPaintOffroad
@chuckdock4436 ok. I’ve never seen or had to do that 👍
@@freedomworx I have seen other videos that say you take the yoke bolt out, remove the yoke and seal and the bearing falls out, just like you are saying but when I did that on mine, it didn't fall out and then I had to remove the whole pinion carrier setup. Weird for sure. Mine is a 1976 14 bolt full floater setup. So its an old one for sure. Maybe they were just different then.
@@chuckdock4436 If the outer bearing falls off the pinion, it means the bearing has failed. Or at least it has gotten hot enough and spun fast enough to spin on the pinion. Which it should not do, and is indicative of some other issue. Low oil, bad oil, excess heat from excess load, assembly error, etc... Every loose outer bearing I've seen was on a diff that was being disassembled due to bearing failure.
Sleeve and shims for life!
Definitely makes servicing the diff easier.
Great explanation!👍
Thanks for watching 👍
some pinions have a key way cut in the threads for you to peen the nut onto it making the crush sleeve 100% pointless.
That won’t keep the outer bearing inner race from spinning.
So what if you used a really heavy spring instead
It’s an option I guess. But it would just cost a lot more.
Thank you😊
Thanks for watching 👍
I didnt need to know this.. but now i do. Thatnks 😅
Thanks for watching 👍
I like the Bullet pointer!
Merica! 🇺🇸
My pinion nut came loose how do i figure out how much i need to tourq it down too or figure out the pre load
The only surefire way is to disassemble the diff and measure the rotational torque of the pinion as you tighten the nut. The measurement is not accurate if the carrier i still in the diff unfortunately. But aslo realize tha sometimes the nut didn't come loose, the bearings actually failed. Conversely, you could snug it down and pray, but it isn't likely to last for a long time that way.
Bro used a bullet as a pointer 😂
Bullets have a point 😎
Bacon 🥓 works well as a pointer too! 😅😉🤔🥓🥓☝🏻🎯🎯😂😂😂
So could you use red loctite on the pinion nut and leave out the crush sleeve?
✌️🔧🍩
There are folks that have, and I Loctite my pinion nuts. But that doesn’t address the other function of the crush sleeve. It sandwiches the outer bearing inner race between itself and the yoke, that helps prevent the inner race from spinning on the pinion. So it really needs to be there.
Dam good video
Thanks for watching 👍
Love the bullet pointer
Pew Pew 😎
IF this was true ,manufacturers would use a MUCH CHEAPER lock washer .
It is true 🤷🏻♂️
@@freedomworx can you set the backlash without it in place ?
@@randomusernumber1 absolutely. I do it every time I build a diff. The crush sleeve doesn't go in until after the pinion depth, backlash, and pattern have been established. It has no affect on backlash.
@@freedomworx if it does not affect the backlash why does it need to be crushed ?
@@randomusernumber1 it needs to be crushed because it puts pressure against the outer bearing inner race, to keep it from spinning on the pinion shaft, and to provide something for the nut to tighten against, just like I said in the video. It has nothing to do with backlash and it doesn't hold the bearings apart. The differential housing holds the bearings apart. That's why you can set up a diff without it even installed. Hell, you can run the diff without one installed, but I'm not recommending it. The backlash is controlled by shimming the inner bearing or inner bearing race, and adjusting the carrier position. The crush sleeve has no affect on either of those.
Did anyone else notice that that's a live round
Won't do you much good if it isn't live 😎
Sweet so I can start reusing them ??
I did not say that 🤓
Ok from a real expert yes you can set preload without the crush sleeve just one problem with that. You can't maintain proper load without the crush sleeve or spacers on other types of differentials full stop.preload is for setting the bearings or break-in, after break-in has occurred there has to be a spacer to maintain zero end play at the pinion or loss of backlash, end play and run out will occur full stop. In other words you lose proper tooth contact pattern and then premature gear failure. Don't let service mechanic that change wheel seal and bearings tell you how to build diffs. I've built well over 5000 units and yes when I first started out I left the crush sleeve and or spacer out of a couple of different units and they didn't last long because of pinion bearing failure due to no spacer or crush sleeve. Ok I have and other techs have left out the spacer on LMS style hubs and have no problem but you set the hub bearing up like regular hub bearing on a diesel rig. Torque the in nut to 50ft/lbs and back the inner nut 1/4 turn back. What's the difference you ask ok a wheel bearing doesn't have backlash or endplay for a gear set or ring gear and pinion okay. Don't believe everything you hear on the Internet get a service manual out and read it. It will tell you inorder to maintain proper backlash and in play you have to maintain proper bearing preload and that's where the crush sleeve or spacer comes into play. Look at the pinion nut it's a special crimped nut that will not back off in normal conditions and don't need a crush sleeve to maintain proper torque,one little tip replace the nut with a unused new nut to make certain the nut will not back off. There is no way that crush sleeve is a lock washer give me a break.
Being a tech means you know how to change parts, it doesn't mean you're an expert on design and theory. I'm not a wheel bearing changer, I'm an engineer. I'm the guy that writes those service manuals you techs follow. I never said to assemble a diff without the crush sleeve, I said it doesn't create preload. Because it doesn't. If you're an expert, tell me why those diffs you assembled without a crush sleeve or spacer, lost preload and had a bearing failure.
@@freedomworx ok I'm a Cat and Eaton certified and trained drivetrain technician and worked with chuck dobbins,mike todd at Eaton Corp who are retired now and head engineers who I help develop the ds404,rs 404 modle diffs in the field when Eaton first released that modle differentials. Ok Mr. engineer give me the service manual you wrote and I be less skeptical until then the reason I worked with lead field engineers is because Eaton Corp and Cat send their head engineer over the they designed of course with a team out into the field or my area which is Dallas fort Worth to fix who's f ups theirs. Case in point the RTLO18918B manual transmission Eaton released in the 90s had a problem in the pete 379s but showed up in some 18 speeds no matter the truck brand just the RTLO18918B. Oh I worked for Peterbilt by the way. The trans had a somewhat loud high pitch whining and more trans developed the same, chuck said pull the transmission out and disassemble it to find out what the cause was. Ok engineers don't touch wrench only technicians do engineers use pens and pencil that's what all engineers that I've worked with told me and that's the way it is. Now this is the first time I worked on one of this whinny 18 speeds and none of the engineers could figure out what was causing the whining or any of the other techs. Well I had helped fix other issues with Eaton before and they asked me to see what I could do and well the 4th 5th shift fork was rubbing the drive gear frt box is what I found. You see the trans never showed any failure problems just a high pitch noise that drives couldn't stand. Look at it like this the truck is the driver's office for 8 hours a day and it was very unpleasant to drive a truck like that. Companies were returning $130,000 trucks fleets of trucks because of one truck that made a bad noise per the customer, remember I worked for Peterbilt and Peterbilt bought the trans from Eaton and that was a Problem for everyone got it. To prove my point I took a grinder and removed about 1/8" ok shift fork material and reassembled the transmission and installed it in the truck. I had CDL in order to road-test trucks I worked on and drove the truck with the driver in the passenger seat. The noise was gone. Chuck and his team of engineers had to resign the shift fork and drive gear to prevent this from happening again. This wasn't a wide spread deal and WE caught the problem early so Eaton didn't have to do a recall just a service bulletin if there was a customer complaint. Just because you are a master engineer doesn't mean you don't make mistakes and the service techs can be your friend and help you or get you retired early like Chucky boy. I didn't mean for that to happen to Chuck but he told me I was a no good mechanic and to shut up and let him do the thinking. Yes I do follow the service manual because chuck told me that I wasn't an engineer and wasn't qualified to reengineer anything. He is right but don't think for one second a low service tech cannot fix a problem an engineer overlooked we do it all the time.ok to your question Mr engineer the pinion has three different forces against it. The pinion gear tries to push away from the ring gear, the heavier the load the greater force up until failure for example tooth breaks which by failure analysis is call shock load. The other forces are the pinion tries to push out the front of the diff which is frontal load and the inner bearing closest to the teeth not the yoke bears that load only. There is also a lateral load where the pinion tries to pivot. The gear end moves one direction and the yoke end moves in the opposite direction. It is this movement that bearing preload helps to prevent or fight against. You see in order for the teeth of a gear to maintain structural integrity it has to operate within a designed spec or set spec. Which is the back lash, radial run out and back side run out. To confirm that I use a dial indicator with a magnetic base and contact pattern. If the gearset operates outside the gearset parameters the gear failure happens at high loads. If you look at what I said and I say again the pinion bearing spacer greatly helps maintain proper bearing preload during operation of the unit GOT IT!
I was a I was an aircraft mechanic and diesel mechanic long before I was an engineer. Like I said, if you’re an expert, tell why those diffs lost preload… You explained what preload is for, but you didn’t explain why the preload was lost without a spacer or crush sleeve in place.
@@freedomworx yes I did and explained what happens when the preload is lost. Ok you can't be an engineer if you don't understand what I just laid out. I'm going to make this simple for you. The preload is to prevent the pinion from moving away from the ring gear under a load. The gearset is designed to a spec. The bearing preload prevents the pinion from moving. The spacer or crush sleeve prevents the bearings from losing preload during high loads during operation or while driving the vehicle or operation of equipment. If the spacer or crush sleeve is not installed the bearings under high loads will lose preload because the outer bearing has to be a machined fit not a pressed fit like the inner bearing,why you ask, your the engineer and what happens to that outer bearing under high loads and how do you prevent that outer bearing from shifting or moving while under high loads. You do understand that the pinion bends and flexes enough to cause a gear failure. That is what preload is designed to do prevent bearing and gear failure under high loads or do you understand that. I started that the very first time and if you were an engineer you should know about failure analysis and engineers also help write failure analysis books to guide not tell or teach but guide service techs on how to identify broken parts or part failure for warranty purposes because a manufacture trained manufacturer certified service tech like myself made the warranty claims diagnosis to determine what the root causes of failure is. That's what I did for a living and you should know that but for some reason maybe because you don't know what you're talking about Mr engineer then you should know about failure analysis. Now I could be wrong or we are using different terminology. Now I am an expert in my field which is what we are discussing. You should understand what I'm saying because I'm using terminology straight out of service manuals and failure analysis manuals. You tell me what is happening without the spacer/crush sleeve.
@tracytalbott9259 so you are basically trying to say exactly what I said I said in the video 😂😂😂
I thought it was to set pinion gear position.
Nope. That is done by shimming the inner pinion bearing or race.
A toque wrench sets the pinion bearing preload 😅
That’s completely false. There is no torque spec for a crush sleeve diff. And if a diff uses a solid spacer, the length of the spacer sets the preload. Wouldn’t matter if you torqued the nut to 50ft-lb or 500ft-lb. The preload would be the same.
Thank you! So what is the torque for the pinion nut usually?
There is no torque spec for the pinion nut when using a crush sleeve. You tighten it until the proper rotational torque is achieved in the bearings. That’s how you measure preload. But it can take several hundreds of pounds of torque on the nut to crush a crush sleeve.
Om Ford 8", the MINIMUM torque is 170 foot pounds. So you start with a new crush sleeve and torque it to 170. This will NOT be enough to crush the sleeve, so you continue until the right amount of drag is achieved. But if you have to change the seal after driven some years, you torque it to 170 foot pounds. This will NOT change the crush sleeve👍
I'm not happy, my Colorado has a 10 bolt 8 inch aam and I never marked the nut and now I don't know how tight or loose to make it
Well the appropriate course of action now is to disassemble down until there is nothing left in the housing accept the pinion, and tighten the nut until you get the appropriate rotational torque on the pinion. Assuming that’s a crush sleeve style axle.
@@freedomworx that was my fear
Better get yourself a 12 pack 😉
Nicely explained!
Thanks for watching 👍
Using a bullet as a pointer means he knows what he’s doing. Right?
Follow the manufacturer directions, the engineers have a reason. Even if they don’t point it out with a bullet.
I’m an engineer and I just told you the reason. I never said to not follow the directions, I simple stated it’s actual purpose. Wouldn’t make much sense for me to explain its purpose and then tell you not to use it 🤷🏻♂️
Wow never knew that cool 😎
Most never will 😎
Little more to it than that but kinda correct
Kinda is good enough 😉
@@freedomworx well you have to have pinion load and torque correct that’s extremely important. The overall concept is correct but there’s important information left out that could killa diff if over looked. It’s not magic like the diff shops would like you to believe, but there are special tools and knowledge that shouldn’t be overlooked either.
@dearinghoward well I can’t tell someone how to build a diff in 60 seconds. 😉 I simply stated that it doesn’t do what most people think it does.
@@freedomworx you are correct
😂 pressure is preload. Your contradiction is 😂.
You misunderstood the video.
I hate youtube mechanics. Without a crush sleeve or solid spacer, the pinion nut will back off and you wont have a ring and pinion anymore. Your right, its not creating preload but if you've read the manual while rebuilding an axle you would know that already. This video makes it seem like you dont need one WHICH YOU ABSOLUTELY DO!!
I’m not a mechanic, I’m an engineer 🤷🏻♂️. I stated exactly what the crush sleeve does, why would I then insinuate that it should be left out 🤷🏻♂️
@freedomworx ohh an engineer! I should definitely trust you then. You did explain what it does, but you then said its like a lockwasher for you pinion nut... it kinda is? But then why would the nut be crimped and have locktite on it already? You have to understand the line of thought of the people your talking to, all they heard was you dont need it for preload and when they inevitably crush one too far, they'll assemble it without a crush sleeve because "you dont need it for preload". Its like saying you dont need a saftey on a gun, yes the gun will fire but your probably gonna blow your foot off
@@moonshiner0197 you don’t have to trust to me, but you don’t have to be a dick either. I’m just letting you know that I’m not a UA-cam Mechanic as you assumed. I can’t help if someone screws up a diff because they assembled it based on a 60 video that they couldn’t comprehend. I can hold everyone’s hand through life.
Crush sleeve maintains preload on the bearings of the pinion. It is not a lock washer for the pinion nut, as the pinion nut is a top lock, a side lock nut or there is lock tight involved. The bearings should have an interference fit on the pinion shaft and not spin ever.... how about you stop spreading miss information...
Wonder why the interference on the inner bearing and outer bearing is so different 🧐 How about you think before you comment. 😘
Have you ever had to deal with inner race of a bearing welding to the pinion shaft? Slip fits cause this
Nope. Never seen one move or not been able to remove one. But I dont do diffs for a living.
Nice pointer.
30-06 😉
@@freedomworxthought so. I use Core Loct. Works every time.😊
@@vadrifter3200 can't go wrong 👍
Try building a rear end without one... let me know how that works out. All the other engineers must be wrong then.. You're misunderstanding doesn't make you right.
If you think I said the leave it out, the misunderstanding is on your end 🤷🏻♂️
So, it actually does.
Does what?
good one
Science 😉