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Such a good a good talk. Literally found myself walking back from dropping my daughter off a school and mulling over Kevlin's observations. Insight with eloquence uis a rare combination, but Kevlin has both - he makes the abstract feel personal which I think is rather brilliant.
That's absolutely right! The idea of an "Undo" feature has to be among the most underrated. So powerful a concept, that just happens to be taken for granted because of its ubiquity. And believe it or not, this may even be a sign of what's to come if and when time travel as we imagine it becomes a reality. We think it will forever be a breathtaking experience every time we go back to the past and correct a mistake, but in reality, knowing humans and their propensity to eventually find boredom in any/everything, this hypothetical time machine may be doomed to the same fate as that of the undo button.
Whenever somebody says "our system is special because..." try substituting the word "shit" for "special" and see if the argument, at that point, makes more sense. ;)
The verbosity of his talk almost surpasses the ones he's criticising. Not hating but half an hour of the talk seems like 2 hours of normal talk, while I've seen others give talks that were way more succinct to the point I thought "it already ended?" at the end.
What I got from this talk is that Kevlin wants to fire software developers. You don't need 60 of them. You just need 10. Don't get us all fired, Kevlin
A possible example of decremental development is the case of Hadley Wickham decision of reducing the number of operations in the R tydiverse package, which he rationalize (convincingly) to be more effective.
"(you can't even) describe rules of chess in 4.8 tweets" that's actually an interesting challenge. it seems possible, but i'm writing from the future where the length of the tweets is doubled (or even more maybe), compared to the original 140 characters...
21:40, turning head can be a bad design, but turn eyes horizontally is a good thing, because otherwise that code would be dropped down, asking for your hands to go up and down, which ends to be more tiresome than the eyes move.
18000 classes for gathering user information and selling it directly from their phones to the buyer's machines so Facebook doesn't have to pay anything to sell that information.
Soooo, although I somewhat agree with the 80 col argument there is something to be said for longer lines. When you read code that is not yours you often skim it, the useful information is usually in the variable names so by breaking something that could be a "one-liner" that encapsulates one idea, you are actually doing the exact thing he is arguing against. You are introducing noise because now you have some useful information on the first line of below col 80, but you might have added some additional noise on the next line that might not be that important when reading a codebase. So doing this in on line Stream get coolestStreamEver => StreamProvider.of(context).coolStream() is much better tah Stream get coolestStreamEver => StreamProvider.of(context).coolStream() Which some formatters might do. Same if you have some guard statements. if(someExpression)throw Error("This might have a bit of a length message"); Writing it like this is just not to great imo... if(someExpression){ throw Error("This might have a bit of a length message"); }
yeah... about that 3:30 bit, I did that, but then a year after she was born somebody else got married & changed their last name causing a collision anyway.
Not a single affirmative statement. You even backed off of the title you borrowed. What do you want from me, Kevlin? Like, say something you really stand by it.
just in very first sentence.. legacy. i wanna be developed .. i am developer. maybe am drunk. but. i try to be the best. when i am in free time (sorry if my en glish is not the best i am czech, very proud) i am developing my ai on tic tac toe maybe i am not the best but really trying legacy.. so u scratch everything that some did before u? that is nonsense
A netbook screen is too small. If your code fits on it your variable don't have proper names. That or you're using a very small font. Either way that's not good.
This guy has no self awareness. He's giving a talk on small is beautiful and then bemoaning that his country got out of a one-size fits all bureaucratic monolith.
Pointless as it may be, I might hazard to point out a couple of things: Kevlin talks about seeking an appropriate sized team to deal with a problem. In software there may be a trend to over-resource, so that’s what he discusses here. That may or may not have any relevance to the merits of European Union membership. In fact, a referendum and 6 years doesn’t seem to have generated a clear consensus on Brexit, and at least his quips were made in the heated aftermath of a monumental change, not 6 years later.
@@chrimony My point was that the Brexit debate is about a lot more than just the size of software teams, or indeed by proxy, government departments. It’s a petty intense set of divisions. I guess thwt’s why we’re still here six years later talking about it. It’s not quite as important as EMacs vs vi, I suppose, but I have a feeling the argument will remain fascinating for historians long after we’re all dead.
Skip the first 10 minutes. it's all just rambling, glamour, and quotes followed by an advertisement....almost lost interest before the presentation material actually began
Looking for books & other references mentioned in this video?
Check out the video description for all the links!
Want early access to videos & exclusive perks?
Join our channel membership today: ua-cam.com/channels/s_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA.htmljoin
Question for you: What’s your biggest takeaway from this video? Let us know in the comments! ⬇
I discovered Kevlin Henney today on GOTO and now, I am binging on his talks. Sorry, Netflix!
I did that too a few years ago :D
Such a good a good talk. Literally found myself walking back from dropping my daughter off a school and mulling over Kevlin's observations. Insight with eloquence uis a rare combination, but Kevlin has both - he makes the abstract feel personal which I think is rather brilliant.
"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."
That's absolutely right! The idea of an "Undo" feature has to be among the most underrated. So powerful a concept, that just happens to be taken for granted because of its ubiquity. And believe it or not, this may even be a sign of what's to come if and when time travel as we imagine it becomes a reality. We think it will forever be a breathtaking experience every time we go back to the past and correct a mistake, but in reality, knowing humans and their propensity to eventually find boredom in any/everything, this hypothetical time machine may be doomed to the same fate as that of the undo button.
Whenever somebody says "our system is special because..." try substituting the word "shit" for "special" and see if the argument, at that point, makes more sense. ;)
real good talk
A good topic and very nice metaphor
The verbosity of his talk almost surpasses the ones he's criticising. Not hating but half an hour of the talk seems like 2 hours of normal talk, while I've seen others give talks that were way more succinct to the point I thought "it already ended?" at the end.
What I got from this talk is that Kevlin wants to fire software developers. You don't need 60 of them. You just need 10. Don't get us all fired, Kevlin
this aged quite interestingly these days, hasn't it
Mr. Henney is one smart bloke.
is that what she said?
A possible example of decremental development is the case of Hadley Wickham decision of reducing the number of operations in the R tydiverse package, which he rationalize (convincingly) to be more effective.
still c++!
"(you can't even) describe rules of chess in 4.8 tweets"
that's actually an interesting challenge. it seems possible, but i'm writing from the future where the length of the tweets is doubled (or even more maybe), compared to the original 140 characters...
21:40, turning head can be a bad design, but turn eyes horizontally is a good thing, because otherwise that code would be dropped down, asking for your hands to go up and down, which ends to be more tiresome than the eyes move.
18000 classes for gathering user information and selling it directly from their phones to the buyer's machines so Facebook doesn't have to pay anything to sell that information.
I'm pretty sure he's selling Ada, even if not saying it directly.
And I like it.
Soooo, although I somewhat agree with the 80 col argument there is something to be said for longer lines.
When you read code that is not yours you often skim it, the useful information is usually in the variable names so by breaking something that could be a "one-liner" that encapsulates one idea, you are actually doing the exact thing he is arguing against. You are introducing noise because now you have some useful information on the first line of below col 80, but you might have added some additional noise on the next line that might not be that important when reading a codebase.
So doing this in on line
Stream get coolestStreamEver => StreamProvider.of(context).coolStream()
is much better tah
Stream get coolestStreamEver =>
StreamProvider.of(context).coolStream()
Which some formatters might do.
Same if you have some guard statements.
if(someExpression)throw Error("This might have a bit of a length message");
Writing it like this is just not to great imo...
if(someExpression){
throw Error("This might have a bit of a length message");
}
Amazing talk
My old code is definitely legacy. I had no idea how to make decent-looking code at all. One line was two screens wide. Absolutely unacceptable.
Spring's ugly code works.
The boss is very happy.
Promotion is safe.
yeah... about that 3:30 bit, I did that, but then a year after she was born somebody else got married & changed their last name causing a collision anyway.
That was pretty sad
It's ironically big
"small is beautiful" wish my ex watched this talk
Just love british humor
Not a single affirmative statement. You even backed off of the title you borrowed. What do you want from me, Kevlin? Like, say something you really stand by it.
67k views NICEEEEEEE
just in very first sentence.. legacy. i wanna be developed .. i am developer. maybe am drunk. but. i try to be the best. when i am in free time (sorry if my en glish is not the best i am czech, very proud) i am developing my ai on tic tac toe maybe i am not the best but really trying legacy.. so u scratch everything that some did before u? that is nonsense
A netbook screen is too small.
If your code fits on it your variable don't have proper names.
That or you're using a very small font. Either way that's not good.
how I hate the way he reads shakespear lol Great talk though
Good talk. Still has to get in an ignorant jab at Brexit, though.
The gray greasy great lock experimentally force because brian interspecifically attract beneath a glossy jeans. parallel, right malaysia
This guy has no self awareness. He's giving a talk on small is beautiful and then bemoaning that his country got out of a one-size fits all bureaucratic monolith.
Pointless as it may be, I might hazard to point out a couple of things: Kevlin talks about seeking an appropriate sized team to deal with a problem. In software there may be a trend to over-resource, so that’s what he discusses here. That may or may not have any relevance to the merits of European Union membership. In fact, a referendum and 6 years doesn’t seem to have generated a clear consensus on Brexit, and at least his quips were made in the heated aftermath of a monumental change, not 6 years later.
@@noobling8313 If you think software teams tends to oversize, what do you think happens in government bureaucracies??
@@chrimony My point was that the Brexit debate is about a lot more than just the size of software teams, or indeed by proxy, government departments. It’s a petty intense set of divisions. I guess thwt’s why we’re still here six years later talking about it. It’s not quite as important as EMacs vs vi, I suppose, but I have a feeling the argument will remain fascinating for historians long after we’re all dead.
Skip the first 10 minutes. it's all just rambling, glamour, and quotes followed by an advertisement....almost lost interest before the presentation material actually began
Yep I lost interest too... A lot of babbling
Ironically, this video could have been smaller. Still a great talk though.
Had to virtue signal about Brexit of course.
Mumble rap is better than the rant here.
I could have done without the political quips, but I guess he has to pander to the audience
Again with the Politics.......