They likely are 5 axis parts. Just look at the part in question in the original comment, not only do you have the flange itself, but if you trace it's corner down to where the oil passage is, there's a peak between two machined surfaces below the flat of the plate's face; andbeyond this, the inside of that peak (in relation to the part's center) also has some gnarly sculpting on it. This kind of job would take way too many operations and way too much time on a 3 axis machine, at least for any reasonable business model; as a hobbyist or garage shop, sure, but as an actual business producing these at any amount of demand, a 5 axis is a no-brainer investment. I wouldn't be surprised if their machining method doesn't mirror Rob's in the beginning. Plane the front and likely hog out the basic shape, drill the perpendicular stud holes, then use those holes as a fixture to do the rest of the machining. Except on a 5 axis you can get to every other face and transition needed to mill the part; and on a part without a lot of coplanar surfaces, a lot of perpendicular surfaces, and a lot of sculpting, this is where 5 axis makes the most sense, just from setup and cycle time alone. Individual tool counts are probably a lot lower as well, one hogging bit, one finishing bit, maybe a set for holes depending on diameter differences, then a typical 60° included angle bit for thread milling, with the only potential additional being a face or shell for quickly planning the few flat surfaces. A good process is highly, highly optimized.
Don't use ball bearings, use double acting tapered bearings (one of the bearings and the other regular rollers). More expensive, but they do double work. Regular bearing work and thrust bearing work, from both directions.
@@AutismusMaximus You put the double acting one at the gearbox, and it's the master for the whole affair, and the rest are roller regulars (not the needle bearings you're usually used to see, but caged roller, maybe something like a Timken N (RIN, RN). No taper. When in play, they have a margin of error (that you can select based on which bearing you choose) that allows for expansion, in the vertical plane (rotation axis). This is how some old double row, radial piston engines had their cranks fixed in place. You should see double screw ones, those were fun to plan out. If they could make such complex shituations work back then, then Rob (with the help of a bearing rep of the company he'll choose) will have no issues. If he asks them, they can even tell him exactly what bearings to use where, down to the composition based on temp, oil, and play found inside his engine. Sidenote: When i changed my brother's D10 bearings to better than OEM, SKF sent an engineer over. And while indeed the cost of the bearings might've "accented" that, the dude was more than gracious enough to speak with me a whole day to choose and figure out what's what based on the climate the machine was stuck in, the type of dust found in the fields it worked in and even minutia like how much work time is expected and how much we wanted to get out of those bearings (lifetime).
Multiple people going at this is what we all want. Competition is the mother of innovation, the real one. So BP making those rotors is gonna kick Rob's butt ot make even better.
Just looked at their website. Pretty nice stuff there. Each plate are 4300$ though so I guess it's about 30k$ CAD motor. Maybe more like 40k actually. I like the motor, the sound and all, but I prefer watching you do it! :D
@@Anon.G It's definitely on par with big boy LS-based engines at those power levels. Not some guy doing it in his garage with a junkyard block, ebay turbos, and crossed fingers, but a legit 2000hp LS from Borowski, Nelson, SME, etc. is $40k+ all day long.
@@Anon.Gthat's just the engine. It doesn't make 2000hp NA. Overall it's probably like 60-70k overall on a stand, and that DIY and not even in a car yet. I think Rob can do it but this dude is not regular dude. He has HP in his brain that most people don't have. While inspiring, not realistic for majority of people.
Not really....you/we just were not shown it. Some of the stuff you read about in the 30/40/50's engineering magazines were utterly bonkers, they just went black.
@dooby1445 He is not saying that they were the same and that shows in reliability, but that for the time they somehow managed to design multiple mechanical machined pieces of art
Rob things to add to your arsenal is a set of gauge pins for accurately measuring your dowel holes and a micrometer to measure your dowels. Also having gauge pins it'll assist you measure point to point on hole patterns because you have a known OD pin and you can measure the outside of 2 holes and find center distance accurately.
New to the channel but love your work. In thinking of putting a rotory in my BRZ. Uf you guys ever make a 2 or 3 rotor engine creight ill be the first to buy one
I can't wait to see EGT differences between this and the old engine! All that extra cooling through the plates will help dramatically! Let's GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, I wish I could just finish building my m50b30 compound twin turbo 700hp engine and you're here finishing what is probably the ultimate 4 rotor build from scratch. I wish I could afford to throw more at my build but everyday I get more and more underwater. Maybe someday.
Fix the o-ring issue by printing/CNC a jig the same shape as it will need to be on the irons and storing the o-rings on the jig. The o-ring will take up the shape (for the most part) over a couple of weeks and prevent the movement and pinching on assembly. You can speed up the process by heat carefully heat cycling the o-rings a few times on the jig. You could also print an assembly jig so you could get alignment perfect (pre-jiggle)above the seals.
Rob's absolute dedication not only to build the most insane 4 rotor but to also sharing the every bit of knowledge he gathers from it is the best❤ . Keep it up the good work. We love you rob ❤.
Looks like I'll be going billet when my motor finally gives up the ghost. No doubt Rob has had a massive POSITIVE impact on the rotary community and the car community in general. Love the transparency and logical explanations behind everything. Really hits home for those of us that build our own vehicles or have a background in building cars.
Damn the external oiling machine work is amazing. Solid dowels and external oiling ftw. I've been checking out their 3 rotor plate for longer than I want to admit haha
you can make a hardenestest with a centerpunch. at least you can compare materials if you are able to hit the centerpunch with the same force. i thought this could be an interesting tip for you. good luck. I`m watching you :-
Love everything you’re doing. Ran across a cnc video and thought about your projects. And thought I’d share. Hopefully it’s helpful. I’m pretty sure you’ve probably seen it but throwing it out there. Their UA-cam is titans of cnc machining. $50m part.
I daydream a lot about ever building a rotary. The first 4 minutes of this video is 8 months salary and isn't even a quarter of the build. Maybe I can daydream for another 30 years.
What kind of tolerances are considered for full billet aluminum? Probably a good thing the dowels are on rhe loose side. Also, please tell us this is going in the C8...
Very nice :) getting a stressfree not twisted and so on after machining and heat treatment. there is always one thing off! unless you use thors vise sent from the heavens... still cant be identical in all variables 😁
I wonder if Rob has ever looked into getting DLC (diamond light coating) on any components like gears or any surfaces that experience a lot of stress and wear it’s been making pretty crazy waves in high horsepower and high stress platforms and according to what I’ve seen, it makes pretty substantial improvements on reliability and efficiency.
I love how far Rob has gotten. i remember people were giving him crap at sema when he first showed his project idea of the four rotar engine. Love the motivation he has and the fact he didn't give up on it.
Getting Rob Dahm nerding the F out on cars, followed by Adam Savage nerding out on machining? All I need is a Project Binky update, and I can die a happy man.
With that much cooling going on behind the plate surface, it's going to be harder to get accidental detonation. Maybe that's the thought behind the smaller amount of material near the dowel?
Oh man my aunt showed me u on the bachelor I honestly didn't know what the hell that was, I watched an episode, I instantly thought...I bet that fun as hell lol
So..very new to the rotor world..but when you talked about a detonation event there on the side of the plate..is there accessories right next to that wall/side of motor(assembled) that would stop you from bulking up more material outside the doweling to add strength?
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
There is nothing better than working a 10-hour day and coming home to a new Rob Dahm upload. Cheers.
69 reactions… nice
Holy shit I just did this 😂😂
Lucky, just got off a 16 and have to be back in 8.
@@Big_ol_bass you don't have to go back lol
Maybe coming home early instead of working 10 hours AND there is a rob Dahm video waiting?
That seems like it could be better. Lol
That's an insane amount of machining. I don't even want to think of what the cycle time for that one mounting flange at 8:15 was...
@@mostlymotorizednot necessarily, these could easily been done on a 5 axis. That would also make porting a lot easier and a lot faster
They likely are 5 axis parts. Just look at the part in question in the original comment, not only do you have the flange itself, but if you trace it's corner down to where the oil passage is, there's a peak between two machined surfaces below the flat of the plate's face; andbeyond this, the inside of that peak (in relation to the part's center) also has some gnarly sculpting on it. This kind of job would take way too many operations and way too much time on a 3 axis machine, at least for any reasonable business model; as a hobbyist or garage shop, sure, but as an actual business producing these at any amount of demand, a 5 axis is a no-brainer investment.
I wouldn't be surprised if their machining method doesn't mirror Rob's in the beginning. Plane the front and likely hog out the basic shape, drill the perpendicular stud holes, then use those holes as a fixture to do the rest of the machining. Except on a 5 axis you can get to every other face and transition needed to mill the part; and on a part without a lot of coplanar surfaces, a lot of perpendicular surfaces, and a lot of sculpting, this is where 5 axis makes the most sense, just from setup and cycle time alone. Individual tool counts are probably a lot lower as well, one hogging bit, one finishing bit, maybe a set for holes depending on diameter differences, then a typical 60° included angle bit for thread milling, with the only potential additional being a face or shell for quickly planning the few flat surfaces. A good process is highly, highly optimized.
@@xaytanathese are done on a vertical 3 axis machining center with a 4th axis add on. These billets are from Australia. It’s done on solidcam.
Ive never clicked on a notification so fast in my life
😂 me too man
I woke up for this
Me too
Same
Premature click.
Don't use ball bearings, use double acting tapered bearings (one of the bearings and the other regular rollers). More expensive, but they do double work. Regular bearing work and thrust bearing work, from both directions.
Bump
Wouldn't this make it a lot harder to get the clearance of the main thrust bearings right, especially when the engine is hot?
@@AutismusMaximus You put the double acting one at the gearbox, and it's the master for the whole affair, and the rest are roller regulars (not the needle bearings you're usually used to see, but caged roller, maybe something like a Timken N (RIN, RN). No taper. When in play, they have a margin of error (that you can select based on which bearing you choose) that allows for expansion, in the vertical plane (rotation axis). This is how some old double row, radial piston engines had their cranks fixed in place. You should see double screw ones, those were fun to plan out. If they could make such complex shituations work back then, then Rob (with the help of a bearing rep of the company he'll choose) will have no issues. If he asks them, they can even tell him exactly what bearings to use where, down to the composition based on temp, oil, and play found inside his engine.
Sidenote: When i changed my brother's D10 bearings to better than OEM, SKF sent an engineer over. And while indeed the cost of the bearings might've "accented" that, the dude was more than gracious enough to speak with me a whole day to choose and figure out what's what based on the climate the machine was stuck in, the type of dust found in the fields it worked in and even minutia like how much work time is expected and how much we wanted to get out of those bearings (lifetime).
@@aserta Got it, thank you for the explanation!
@@aserta I love when I find hidden gems of comments like these under youtube videos. Thank you for the extensive explanation. Fascinating stuff
Rob Dahm might just be the only bloke outside of Oceania doing Rotarys right. Mate, you NEED to come to Australia 🇦🇺
There’s this tiny little island full of Spanish speaking ppl that have the fastest ones 💪🏼
Misfire Garage is doing some good stuff to
What's that shop in straya that has been building badass rotary cars for a long time? I can't think of the name but if i hear/read it I'll know.
@@Berm_Blasterpac performance?
Yeah let's completely ignore Puerto Rico! 🤣🤣
I can only imagine what beautiful music this monster will make once it's built.
I would love to see a time lapse of these parts being machined, some beautiful work
Multiple people going at this is what we all want. Competition is the mother of innovation, the real one. So BP making those rotors is gonna kick Rob's butt ot make even better.
I love that Hurt is doing the cheap build. This will be fun to watch. Thanks
who is hurt
@@jameskirkpatrick36 that's Hert, but that's how engines call him - hurt
Simon is the best. Love that you guys are working together.
Just looked at their website. Pretty nice stuff there. Each plate are 4300$ though so I guess it's about 30k$ CAD motor. Maybe more like 40k actually. I like the motor, the sound and all, but I prefer watching you do it! :D
I feel like 40k isn’t that bad for 2000 horse power
it is cheap for what it is... and if you mess up it is less you need to replace unless you mess up big time.
@@Anon.G It's definitely on par with big boy LS-based engines at those power levels. Not some guy doing it in his garage with a junkyard block, ebay turbos, and crossed fingers, but a legit 2000hp LS from Borowski, Nelson, SME, etc. is $40k+ all day long.
@@daedalus_20v thanks for the info
@@Anon.Gthat's just the engine. It doesn't make 2000hp NA. Overall it's probably like 60-70k overall on a stand, and that DIY and not even in a car yet. I think Rob can do it but this dude is not regular dude. He has HP in his brain that most people don't have. While inspiring, not realistic for majority of people.
It's always a good day when Rob Dahm posts a video.
Those things are a work of art. Technology of today's machined parts were unheard of not long ago.
Not really....you/we just were not shown it. Some of the stuff you read about in the 30/40/50's engineering magazines were utterly bonkers, they just went black.
@dooby1445 He is not saying that they were the same and that shows in reliability, but that for the time they somehow managed to design multiple mechanical machined pieces of art
So to conclude... not unheard of but certainly harder to achieve
That is the perfect code for the lock and very on brand for Rob to forget it
he was genuinely surprised Joel could remember lol classic Rob
Rob things to add to your arsenal is a set of gauge pins for accurately measuring your dowel holes and a micrometer to measure your dowels. Also having gauge pins it'll assist you measure point to point on hole patterns because you have a known OD pin and you can measure the outside of 2 holes and find center distance accurately.
Wow just the bling of what they milled out is stunning... But to have the level of performance to back up the "pretty" ... Daaaamn!
The water jacket size increasing the weight of the engine would be truly hilarious! Love your work, Rob!
Nice to see a ProMaz on the channel. Excited to see how the Dahm Genius is going to make it better!!
All that shiny machined aluminum looks EXPENSIVE.
ever since I saw mad mikes video of billet pros line up i knew you would get your hands on one
Would also love to see the most powerful one-rotor you could make
Ive been waiting for one, be sick in a Kai car
Dodge challenger 1 rotor with 3 compound turbos and spray.😂
New to the channel but love your work. In thinking of putting a rotory in my BRZ. Uf you guys ever make a 2 or 3 rotor engine creight ill be the first to buy one
I can't wait to see EGT differences between this and the old engine!
All that extra cooling through the plates will help dramatically! Let's GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Setting the Bar is A Master's Work 👽👍🏻✨
I would love to see a long build video of both engines!
Man, I wish I could just finish building my m50b30 compound twin turbo 700hp engine and you're here finishing what is probably the ultimate 4 rotor build from scratch. I wish I could afford to throw more at my build but everyday I get more and more underwater. Maybe someday.
Lol "you can't un-open Pandora's Box"
I believe there's a word for that...
I had a manufacturing processes with cnc programming class in college. Those "irons" are absolutely top notch!
Fix the o-ring issue by printing/CNC a jig the same shape as it will need to be on the irons and storing the o-rings on the jig. The o-ring will take up the shape (for the most part) over a couple of weeks and prevent the movement and pinching on assembly. You can speed up the process by heat carefully heat cycling the o-rings a few times on the jig. You could also print an assembly jig so you could get alignment perfect (pre-jiggle)above the seals.
Rob's absolute dedication not only to build the most insane 4 rotor but to also sharing the every bit of knowledge he gathers from it is the best❤ . Keep it up the good work. We love you rob ❤.
Lol 44sec posted and already others comments love all the content Rob thank you for all you do!!!!!!❤
Looks like I'll be going billet when my motor finally gives up the ghost. No doubt Rob has had a massive POSITIVE impact on the rotary community and the car community in general. Love the transparency and logical explanations behind everything. Really hits home for those of us that build our own vehicles or have a background in building cars.
Bought time someone built a proper 4 rotor with matching primary ports on the end plates. That was also my goal.
Ohhhhhh friggg yeah bud!
Thanks you for what you do! From me and my bros in Canada! We all watch your stuff and enjoy it thoroughly. Keep it coming!
🇨🇦
Damn the external oiling machine work is amazing. Solid dowels and external oiling ftw. I've been checking out their 3 rotor plate for longer than I want to admit haha
So goshdahm excited for this double build, and learning the differences as we go!
there's so much to talk about with this build... NOTHING GOT STOLEN!!!
What a time to be alive, motorsports technology and development have come a long way in the last decade.
Rob uploading makes my day after a long ass day.
Bruhhh this banger drops right before my finals 😭
remember commenting on the centre lock nut on a previous video. glad to see rob saw the light
So stoked to see this bro and loving how you’re doing the side by side comparison with Herts build! Keep up the excellent work 💪🏻
you can make a hardenestest with a centerpunch.
at least you can compare materials if you are able to hit the centerpunch with the same force.
i thought this could be an interesting tip for you.
good luck.
I`m watching you :-
glad to see you building big chunks of powerful shiny again 😃
While I'm not a rotary fan boy , I can still very much appreciate the mechanical nature of your videos . 👍
Love the appreciation for quality work. Up the aussies...
Hell yea that bit is a work of art can’t wait to see it together Ripping!!!
Love everything you’re doing. Ran across a cnc video and thought about your projects. And thought I’d share. Hopefully it’s helpful. I’m pretty sure you’ve probably seen it but throwing it out there. Their UA-cam is titans of cnc machining. $50m part.
You know your an engineer when you call an arrow, a vector
I don't know why, but rotary engine looks amazing dude. The sound, Power and more 😂
just started watching, i dont even even want to know how much that beauty costs, definitely more than tree fiddy
14:54 everybody gangsta until the rotor is capable of rotating
Bro 3d scan all those plates. You may not be at that point now, but you can play around with 3d printing. 💯👌🥃🏴☠️ 5:40
love all the info!
Awesome motor awesome Bill at work and craftsmanship
This stuff gets me going boys. Much love
I just want my 350-hp two-rotor to be indestructible lol
Don't detonate. There, a motor that will last ;)
@@RedBatRacing and @baribari600 And proper lubrication (a good advice for other uses too 😜)
I daydream a lot about ever building a rotary. The first 4 minutes of this video is 8 months salary and isn't even a quarter of the build. Maybe I can daydream for another 30 years.
i need to learn rotary's this is so much different then how piston engines work its super interesting
Fascinated by people's enginuity.❤
I love the care they took for shipping, especially the locked case to keep the ups sticky fingers away 😂
7:16 i can almost feel in the back of Rob's head saying:
Can't build it yet 😏
Perfect ending. I got goose bumps
So excited for this build
What kind of tolerances are considered for full billet aluminum? Probably a good thing the dowels are on rhe loose side. Also, please tell us this is going in the C8...
Wow, sometimes a scroll through UA-cam videos looking for something better. Whenever I watch your videos I remember what better is
So great youre keeping the intrest in rotaries alive. I dont think I will ever get my FD back on the road. T_T
Bro, I’ve always loved you bro keep up the amazing work
I said it before and I will say it again, this man is carrying the rotary's legacy on his back❤
Thank you for what you do Rob!
I feel like this video is a direct response to my comment on your previous vid. What a coincidence 😊
Very nice :) getting a stressfree not twisted and so on after machining and heat treatment. there is always one thing off! unless you use thors vise sent from the heavens... still cant be identical in all variables 😁
I wonder if Rob has ever looked into getting DLC (diamond light coating) on any components like gears or any surfaces that experience a lot of stress and wear it’s been making pretty crazy waves in high horsepower and high stress platforms and according to what I’ve seen, it makes pretty substantial improvements on reliability and efficiency.
Or wpc treatment.
Great video ROB, I like how you explain things!!!!!!!!!!!!!😊
Thats a nice bit of kit.
Cant wait to see this built up!
Work of art.
You on a whole other level… your own level forsure!
SO SHINY. Can't wait for the build
I was waiting to see your reaction to these, thought they were impressive before the full breakdown that you've just done
I love how far Rob has gotten. i remember people were giving him crap at sema when he first showed his project idea of the four rotar engine. Love the motivation he has and the fact he didn't give up on it.
Bro love your work!!! Hugs from Portugal 🇵🇹 ❤️🔥
Santa that’s the Esky I want on Christmas Day!!
Robdahm the god of rotarys
Someone got an early Christmas 🎁🎄🎁🎄🎁
Getting Rob Dahm nerding the F out on cars, followed by Adam Savage nerding out on machining? All I need is a Project Binky update, and I can die a happy man.
With that much cooling going on behind the plate surface, it's going to be harder to get accidental detonation. Maybe that's the thought behind the smaller amount of material near the dowel?
Oh man my aunt showed me u on the bachelor I honestly didn't know what the hell that was, I watched an episode, I instantly thought...I bet that fun as hell lol
Take a long look at those beautiful parts!!! Rob is about to thrash the crap out of them!! That's what he does!
"Who thermally lava sprays tungsten chromium carbide? That's aerospace bullshit, ain't nobody got time for that!"
-Rob Dahm 2023...
Rob is so freaking humble.
So..very new to the rotor world..but when you talked about a detonation event there on the side of the plate..is there accessories right next to that wall/side of motor(assembled) that would stop you from bulking up more material outside the doweling to add strength?
Norhing better then when mr dahm uploads god i wish more was uploaded more often we wanna see the goods
Yes…..
Rob, just….yes
Carry on, expeditedly💪👊
"That's aerospace bs. Nobody has time for us." 🤣🤣🤣 Love it.
Lol the climactic let down when he opens the blue crate to a bunch of boxes😂😂
Lez go Dahm daddy is back
I love the 3 clutch boxes stacked in the backround lmao
you’re so interesting my dog even watches with me, love it
This man’s it’s who gonna make the rotary’s get to 5 secs world record in 1/4 drag