elgatochurro In the end of the day when it comes down to it.. It's just a really cheap way of getting a kill. It's like using the grenade launcher in call of duty... It's just a dirty cheap way of getting a kill with 0 skill involved.
Most of them are spies or demos that don't know how to use their sticky launcher, or medics/snipers that weren't well placed, so yeah. They do deserved it.
An incredibly insightful video which shows your amazing ablity to cut and edit a recorded video to make it seem as if what you are doing would actually be effective. People should have tried this in the beta when pyros who got good scores were the pinnacle of skill.
The stigma against "W+M1" Pyros is a very interesting topic. Popular opinion dictates that players using Pyro with the W+M1 playstyle are essentially using a crutch which allows them to get cheap and unskilled kills. I would agree that this is not fair to players playing most other classes, and also that it is a very unskilled technique. On the other hand, when Team Fortress 2 was initially released, Pyro did not have the ability to airblast or get instakills in such a wide variety of ways. Essentially, players who are playing Pyro "skillfully," using weapons like the Axtinguisher and Flare Gun to quickly dispose of their targets are no less cheap than people playing Pyro as originally intended. The fact that Pyro takes so little skill to play is only made worse by the fact that Pyro has no real firm counter. Although some may argue that the Scout or Heavy can counter Pyro, this is not entirely true. In Team Fortress 2, the counter for another class is expected to win most one-on-one scenarios, though may lose to a more skillful player or their random critical hits. In the case of Scout vs. Pyro, while it is possible for a good Scout to win most encounters with Pyros, more often than not, the Pyro will either brush the Scout with his/her flames, causing Scout to rapidly die from direct fire damage or afterburn, or use an instakill combo attack to immediately kill the Scout. Similarly, Heavies, the other "counter" to Pyros may be able to kill the Pyro at least some of the time even if they are not particularly skillful with the class, but with afterburn and any ambushing done by the Pyro, it is often the Heavy who dies. Essentially, there is no real difference between the "W+M1" Pyro players and their more "skilled" counterparts. Pyro is cheap the way (s)he is, and until a true counter is created to give Pyros an actual challenge to fight against, this will not change
Bahahaha! I can't give this video enough thumbs up. I love the Pyro, and his W+M1 skills. Oh, and Natascha counters the pyro. If you catch him coming, he won't be able to touch you.
@CharroArgentino No, it just gave you an extra 50 health and no compression blast. Effectively, not only was W+M1 ridiculously effective, it was the ONLY thing a Derpburner Pyro could do.
2:08 look out, they're swarming! As for the video itself... I don't know if flamethrowers have been nerfed since then, but when I was at the W+M1 stage of learning to play (currently playing for about a week / 18 hours and slowly getting less bad; this is my first FPS), I was getting maybe one lucky kill in five deaths, max, and those were mostly bad or unlucky spies. This definitely doesn't work nowadays - try charging a heavy or a soldier like this and you'll be in pieces before getting in range. Even a sniper would take you down unless you can take them by surprise.
@SkyScrapers72 50+ hp back burner doesn't exist, it was removed in an update. Someone hasn't played in a while (it was several months ago). I agree with you though, giving the pyro 50 more health would mean that the pyro outclassed the soldier in every aspect (except weapon range, and the airblast renders that mute anyways).
Pyro can do pretty much that except reaching super high places. Pyros can only reache moderate high places where a scout could go for a example. A lone sentry can be destroyed if the pyro can reflet the missiles or if it is in a bad position the pyro can just circle it or use a homewrecker. Also I don't think soldiers can push enemies, unlink ubercharges, extinguish teammates, remove sappers or spycheck like a pyro.
@Anticipaste Camping can easily be countered by looking around corners before rushing past them. And pyros are already at a disadvantage when ambushing, so if they're the ones caught off guard it's practically a free kill.
And I also just realized that this strategy is effective if you're in an enclosed area or surprise them/things are so hectic as for the attention to not be centered on you.
The minigun doesn't need reloading and it wastes ammo about as fast as the flamethrower (even slower I might say). The pyro has its place, it just needs to be less noob-friendly and less luck and spray rewarding. And also have something that no other class can do (besides airblast which is highly situational), and not just something from each class. Removing / drastically changing the backburner so it isn't such an obvious (but wrong) choice for noobs would help.
I like how there were no Heavys or Soldiers in the video mostly playing against spys and snipers with the occasional brain dead demo or no shotty pyro.
Never EVER step outside into the open railtracks on doublecross. Thing with the pyro is that, if you're gonna run with the flamethrower, then do it strategically. They wont get near you, so run them into corners. Its awesome. Or do so while shotgunning.
Don Newman is a real pyro, one who plays against good people and is amazing to watch. He is the only person I know who can reliably reflect arrows. His videos show proper pyro use, there are scenes of horrible players though, axing a heavy medic combo to death etc. His reflect kills and airblast rocket jumps make up for that.
@Un0nymous Which class does take skill? The spy, who can remain invisible until only one enemy is in sight? The sniper, who spends most of his time hiding from the real battle? The soldier, who doesn't even need to hit his targets to kill them? TF2 is an easy game. The real challenge in TF2 isn't killing the opponents, it's surviving. Most players I see are willing to commit suicide for a single kill. THAT takes 0 skill.
That appears obvious, Pyro is here to annoy spies and those who does not keep their distances from him, but there will always be some classes that can kill him, like Heavy or Sniper.
@KelThuzadMadness He ran out of ammo although that doesn't explain how he changed back to the backburner. In all honestly people wouldn't expect such a noob tactic and it seemed most of their team were pyros, snipers, and soldiers and a few spies not a good combo against a pyro like that, good pyros can jump from defense (spy-checking) to offense (ambush, ambush) and support (keeping people away from caps and carts as well as extinguishing teammates)
@bbqCumber well your half right, you are right that there is no such thing as a hard counter in this game, except for ubers which counter everything, but I am saying is that a medic is not an easy kill for the pyro if they are both aware of each other and with very little interference, however that situation is very unlikely.
This is what I'd start with to correct the pyro: reduce damage from backburner from the front by a bit. That way new players will have to choose. Eventually they'll notice they don't ambush all that much and use the regular flamethrower, and everyone will benefit from it. If they do ambush, then it's all for the best, cause I encourage the BB in that case.
What annoys me is that now the backburner is buffed to a point of forcing people to go W+M1 with it, in order to pull off those easy kills. No flanking required. Otherwise, you are left with your reverse vacuum cleaner which is harder to pull off the easy kills.
@mattwo7 It's not that I forgot, it's the fact that I was arguing a Professional Pyro will sadly own anyone that even remotely thinks about fighting like this video here portrays. A pro pyro will NOT miss you with the shotgun unless you are a scout or you upset their position. In the open you have a timer on your health. If you try to end it by closing in they will air blast you away or finish you off with melee, and they are ALWAYS after health. They don't provide you long timespans for shots.
while that is true, that is really the ONLY effective way of using the backburner. the degreaser+axtinguisher combo is always effective, from the front or back. and you still get to use airblasts (probably the most important utility pyro has) all day long with ammo to spare.
I wasn´t saying that the Backburner is better It´s extremely situational and should mainly be used in maps where you can easily ambush a group of players.(Most payload maps/defense only) Running arround a corner into a heavy ("Sasha"/300hp) basically means "You are dead" if the backburner is equipped. ("skilled" Heavy). If you have deagreaser+flare gun+axtinguisher= He can´t even spin up If they implement the beta changes (normal flamethrower gets 10% more dmg) the bb is even more situational.
@Clutch180 You forgot to mention that any class that stays out of range will help. Esp the sniper sitting upstairs drinkn' coffee shoot drink shoot drink shoot, now there's a class that needs next to no skill. Have to watch out for spies tho.
@burnout21 In case you didn't know, when you run out of ammo on one weapon, you automatically switch to the next weapon, that's why he whipped out the shotgun... derp.
Well I can't really agree that the pyro has the lowest dps, For instance, the RL firest every 0.8 so almost 1 sec each shot, and it does around 120 dmg max If I'm right, as for the flamethower the lwoers range is around 150 + the afterburn, which means it's 210 if you can burn someone for 1 sec and let the fire devour him, plus a crit flaregun means that you can kill a heavy by burn him for 1 sec, flare in the face and run away, or make it faster by doing it with axtiguisher.
@boss1001 Notice, he runing with medic actuality most of times + with ubers versus snipers. Any medium sniper can kill pyro in midle range the pyro without medic.
@InspectorIncognito But can't the BB still be used to ambush people? It can still deal hundreds of points of damage in a short period of time. Combine it with some well placed flares and an axtinguisher, and you've got a potent combo.
it depends on your gameplay , the positive stats of primary weapon doeesn't compensate the negative for my gameplay , so for me the best still the basic flame thrower or the ranblower
@kshack Agreed on most points. However, the Pyro is on baseline speed. The only things faster than him by default (AKA without stuff like the Equalizer or Chargin' Targe) are the Scout and Medic.
@Mikzuu94 Compression Blast is also great for knocking other players around. I get much more use out of it by separating ubering medics from their protection than I do deflecting rockets. Also, if a compression blasting pyro is such a huge problem for your soldier, then why not pull out the Direct Hit?
that keyboard is nasty
After all these years this video is still relevant
Everyone runs when they see that shit.
Sup.
This guy needs a Grammy for taking all the keys out of the keyboard
OR instead of ruining your mouse and keyboard, you could have opened the console and typed these 2 commands:
+attack
+forward
It's that easy!
Poor mouse and keyboard.
Wouldn't be as funny, though.
This was when the Backburner still gave you an HP bonus, right?
Good times. Or wait, no, that was terrible.
IMPOSSIBLE! 720p on 2009?
but if this was posted in 2009, how did he get access to b33p's POV demos?
totally true, 1077 people are W+M1 pyros
THIS is what i want to see! :P you are like the best pyro ever and ive seen plenty of pyros spraying everywhere. you inspire me to be a better pyro :D
if Pyro is a "noob" owning players by a simple w+m1, then those players are more like idiots and deserve it!
pyro user detected
PsychoxPancho lmao YEP.
PsychoxPancho its just simple logic, the game is balanced and if thats the unskilled tactic, why cant others beat it?
elgatochurro In the end of the day when it comes down to it.. It's just a really cheap way of getting a kill. It's like using the grenade launcher in call of duty... It's just a dirty cheap way of getting a kill with 0 skill involved.
Most of them are spies or demos that don't know how to use their sticky launcher, or medics/snipers that weren't well placed, so yeah.
They do deserved it.
Somehow, he managed so overcome a team with 14 spies. It's downright inspirational.
This video is the most educational thing ever about tf2... im not joking
the pyro is one of the most versatile classes in TF2 along with the Soldier right now...mainly because of the degreaser
An incredibly insightful video which shows your amazing ablity to cut and edit a recorded video to make it seem as if what you are doing would actually be effective.
People should have tried this in the beta when pyros who got good scores were the pinnacle of skill.
The stigma against "W+M1" Pyros is a very interesting topic. Popular opinion dictates that players using Pyro with the W+M1 playstyle are essentially using a crutch which allows them to get cheap and unskilled kills. I would agree that this is not fair to players playing most other classes, and also that it is a very unskilled technique. On the other hand, when Team Fortress 2 was initially released, Pyro did not have the ability to airblast or get instakills in such a wide variety of ways. Essentially, players who are playing Pyro "skillfully," using weapons like the Axtinguisher and Flare Gun to quickly dispose of their targets are no less cheap than people playing Pyro as originally intended. The fact that Pyro takes so little skill to play is only made worse by the fact that Pyro has no real firm counter. Although some may argue that the Scout or Heavy can counter Pyro, this is not entirely true. In Team Fortress 2, the counter for another class is expected to win most one-on-one scenarios, though may lose to a more skillful player or their random critical hits. In the case of Scout vs. Pyro, while it is possible for a good Scout to win most encounters with Pyros, more often than not, the Pyro will either brush the Scout with his/her flames, causing Scout to rapidly die from direct fire damage or afterburn, or use an instakill combo attack to immediately kill the Scout. Similarly, Heavies, the other "counter" to Pyros may be able to kill the Pyro at least some of the time even if they are not particularly skillful with the class, but with afterburn and any ambushing done by the Pyro, it is often the Heavy who dies. Essentially, there is no real difference between the "W+M1" Pyro players and their more "skilled" counterparts. Pyro is cheap the way (s)he is, and until a true counter is created to give Pyros an actual challenge to fight against, this will not change
this is the best pyro gameplay footage of all time
i dont need no nothing but this
Hah Gabe Troll Face picture in the end , I can picture Gabe making that face after giving the pyro the back burner buff haha XD
Bahahaha! I can't give this video enough thumbs up. I love the Pyro, and his W+M1 skills. Oh, and Natascha counters the pyro. If you catch him coming, he won't be able to touch you.
@CharroArgentino No, it just gave you an extra 50 health and no compression blast. Effectively, not only was W+M1 ridiculously effective, it was the ONLY thing a Derpburner Pyro could do.
If he was using the phlogisnator there would have been a 100% rise in skills.
2:08 look out, they're swarming!
As for the video itself... I don't know if flamethrowers have been nerfed since then, but when I was at the W+M1 stage of learning to play (currently playing for about a week / 18 hours and slowly getting less bad; this is my first FPS), I was getting maybe one lucky kill in five deaths, max, and those were mostly bad or unlucky spies.
This definitely doesn't work nowadays - try charging a heavy or a soldier like this and you'll be in pieces before getting in range. Even a sniper would take you down unless you can take them by surprise.
He's just better at W+M1 than you were admit it ( I am sarcastic btw )
@SkyScrapers72 50+ hp back burner doesn't exist, it was removed in an update. Someone hasn't played in a while (it was several months ago). I agree with you though, giving the pyro 50 more health would mean that the pyro outclassed the soldier in every aspect (except weapon range, and the airblast renders that mute anyways).
best thing about this vid is the music the fact that this pyro is having an epileptic siezure says nothing for real pyros
Pyro can do pretty much that except reaching super high places. Pyros can only reache moderate high places where a scout could go for a example. A lone sentry can be destroyed if the pyro can reflet the missiles or if it is in a bad position the pyro can just circle it or use a homewrecker. Also I don't think soldiers can push enemies, unlink ubercharges, extinguish teammates, remove sappers or spycheck like a pyro.
You were fighting spies, snipers, and medics. Of course you're going to own.
>+forward
>+attack1
>only have to steer
feels good, man
@Anticipaste Camping can easily be countered by looking around corners before rushing past them.
And pyros are already at a disadvantage when ambushing, so if they're the ones caught off guard it's practically a free kill.
And I also just realized that this strategy is effective if you're in an enclosed area or surprise them/things are so hectic as for the attention to not be centered on you.
"and my favorite class is the spy"
a bad example of a pyro in the middle of an epileptic siezure
its like they all run out of ammo when they see you coming.
Man, those SNIPERS and SPIES didn't stand a chance.
@Midaki proof that's not true: the voice chat at the end. He was doing this the entire game, and got dominations, top scoring player, etc.
I'm sure the thing missing from the newest Meet the Team video featuring the Pyro is any mention of W+M1. Though, I'm sure nerfs brought this down...
There will be a flamethrower elite class in battlefield 1, I heard
Whenever I see another pyro other than me pressure blast, it makes me so proud.
The minigun doesn't need reloading and it wastes ammo about as fast as the flamethrower (even slower I might say).
The pyro has its place, it just needs to be less noob-friendly and less luck and spray rewarding. And also have something that no other class can do (besides airblast which is highly situational), and not just something from each class.
Removing / drastically changing the backburner so it isn't such an obvious (but wrong) choice for noobs would help.
Oh man you totally killed some spies and engineers who weren't trying to fight back! And spawn killing! Impressive!
I like how there were no Heavys or Soldiers in the video mostly playing against spys and snipers with the occasional brain dead demo or no shotty pyro.
0:13 i like the little flash thing... behold the power of the W!!! BEHOLD ITS GREATNES!! xD
Never EVER step outside into the open railtracks on doublecross. Thing with the pyro is that, if you're gonna run with the flamethrower, then do it strategically. They wont get near you, so run them into corners. Its awesome. Or do so while shotgunning.
What's worse is these Pyros do exist. Even more so now that back burner has been boosted 8D
Pyro: Meet me.
Valve: You're the 3rd class, and we cannot count to three, sorry.
Don Newman is a real pyro, one who plays against good people and is amazing to watch.
He is the only person I know who can reliably reflect arrows. His videos show proper pyro use, there are scenes of horrible players though, axing a heavy medic combo to death etc. His reflect kills and airblast rocket jumps make up for that.
Bro, you switched weapons at one point.
Great video anyway.
@Un0nymous Which class does take skill? The spy, who can remain invisible until only one enemy is in sight? The sniper, who spends most of his time hiding from the real battle? The soldier, who doesn't even need to hit his targets to kill them? TF2 is an easy game. The real challenge in TF2 isn't killing the opponents, it's surviving. Most players I see are willing to commit suicide for a single kill. THAT takes 0 skill.
the shotgun only gets taken out because he ran out of ammo on the flamethrower and had no choice.
That appears obvious, Pyro is here to annoy spies and those who does not keep their distances from him, but there will always be some classes that can kill him, like Heavy or Sniper.
"backburner pyro, never letting go of W."
-Pyro Car Song
He ran out of flamethrower ammo. It does it automatically.
@KaiqueSumatso u can use the scroll thingy in the middle of mouse to change wepens too
now thats how u play pyro M1+W FTW that was actually quite great good job
*sniper hides in a good spot* *BANG* "Wave goodbye to your head, wankah!"
@KelThuzadMadness He ran out of ammo although that doesn't explain how he changed back to the backburner.
In all honestly people wouldn't expect such a noob tactic and it seemed most of their team were pyros, snipers, and soldiers and a few spies not a good combo against a pyro like that, good pyros can jump from defense (spy-checking) to offense (ambush, ambush) and support (keeping people away from caps and carts as well as extinguishing teammates)
@RecycleDucks Rolling the mousewheel brings up the weapon menu on the right hand side of the screen.
@bbqCumber well your half right, you are right that there is no such thing as a hard counter in this game, except for ubers which counter everything, but I am saying is that a medic is not an easy kill for the pyro if they are both aware of each other and with very little interference, however that situation is very unlikely.
@PhilleeL93 he picked up the ammo box, if you mean when he was with the medic. otherwise, probably gun pickups
This is what I'd start with to correct the pyro: reduce damage from backburner from the front by a bit.
That way new players will have to choose. Eventually they'll notice they don't ambush all that much and use the regular flamethrower, and everyone will benefit from it. If they do ambush, then it's all for the best, cause I encourage the BB in that case.
What annoys me is that now the backburner is buffed to a point of forcing people to go W+M1 with it, in order to pull off those easy kills. No flanking required. Otherwise, you are left with your reverse vacuum cleaner which is harder to pull off the easy kills.
@Happypeanuthourtime but he switched back to flamethrower when he got ammo, so he push another buttons
@mattwo7 It's not that I forgot, it's the fact that I was arguing a Professional Pyro will sadly own anyone that even remotely thinks about fighting like this video here portrays.
A pro pyro will NOT miss you with the shotgun unless you are a scout or you upset their position. In the open you have a timer on your health. If you try to end it by closing in they will air blast you away or finish you off with melee, and they are ALWAYS after health. They don't provide you long timespans for shots.
...and yet, the most amazing thing about this video is the fps he's getting even with all the spam.
while that is true, that is really the ONLY effective way of using the backburner. the degreaser+axtinguisher combo is always effective, from the front or back. and you still get to use airblasts (probably the most important utility pyro has) all day long with ammo to spare.
@Banshee523 He had no ammo left for his backburner, it changed to the shotgun automatically.
@InsaneSmashBrawler96 I don't think so...
When he switched to the shotgun, his flamethrower was out of ammo so it changed automatically
I wasn´t saying that the Backburner is better
It´s extremely situational and should mainly be used in maps where you can easily ambush a group of players.(Most payload maps/defense only)
Running arround a corner into a heavy ("Sasha"/300hp) basically means "You are dead" if the backburner is equipped. ("skilled" Heavy).
If you have deagreaser+flare gun+axtinguisher= He can´t even spin up
If they implement the beta changes (normal flamethrower gets 10% more dmg) the bb is even more situational.
Also, have you guys noticed the only people he killed were either snipers and spies or were not paying attention?
@AltruisticAlbatross Wait you expect us to moonwalk untill we're out of the pyro's broken range of fire ?
Meet Hamps - The king if the broken Pyro
Flamethrower+Flare gun+Fire axe is also pretty effective, and fun. Ever killed a w+m1 pyro with a crit Fire axe to the face? Feels so good.
The backburner was made for playing like Spy, or classic pyro ambush.
tecnicly m1 fires your gun and heavys hold w to move forward so any class could use m1+w tatic
@Clutch180 You forgot to mention that any class that stays out of range will help. Esp the sniper sitting upstairs drinkn' coffee shoot drink shoot drink shoot, now there's a class that needs next to no skill. Have to watch out for spies tho.
@JoonasD6 he ran out of ammo... then it automatically changes to shotgun. then he got ammo and used to mouse scroll to go back to the flamethrower.
Guys in the Console type in +attack and then +forward. Then just move the mouse around in the general direction
Finally someone who speaks some common since.
Thank you for acknowledging that.
@Briancmwilliams Unless ambushed at corners and confined spaces like corridors, scout pwns pyro easily generally.
The awkward moment when he tries to put the "W" button in the "S" slot...
he ran out of ammo, and it auto switched.
When he got ammo again he switches back to Flamethrower
@burnout21 In case you didn't know, when you run out of ammo on one weapon, you automatically switch to the next weapon, that's why he whipped out the shotgun... derp.
you feel sick to move so the mouse
@NoFearNoFlame No class "counters" the pyro unless the range is more than medium and in some cases just medium. Especially not the medic.
Well I can't really agree that the pyro has the lowest dps, For instance, the RL firest every 0.8 so almost 1 sec each shot, and it does around 120 dmg max If I'm right, as for the flamethower the lwoers range is around 150 + the afterburn, which means it's 210 if you can burn someone for 1 sec and let the fire devour him, plus a crit flaregun means that you can kill a heavy by burn him for 1 sec, flare in the face and run away, or make it faster by doing it with axtiguisher.
@boss1001 Notice, he runing with medic actuality most of times + with ubers versus snipers. Any medium sniper can kill pyro in midle range the pyro without medic.
If you use the Backburner the way it should be used (ambush them from behind) heavy+medic combos can be taken down aswell with it.
@GamingSolutions He had 4 shotgun ammo plus reserve when he switched.
The Pyro has one of the highest skill ceilings, but the lowest skill floor. You were demonstrating how to lay down on that floor.
@gmoddera If he would use W+M2 only, he would fail epicly, the backburner does not even have a compressionblast.
@InspectorIncognito But can't the BB still be used to ambush people? It can still deal hundreds of points of damage in a short period of time. Combine it with some well placed flares and an axtinguisher, and you've got a potent combo.
it depends on your gameplay , the positive stats of primary weapon doeesn't compensate the negative for my gameplay , so for me the best still the basic flame thrower or the ranblower
pyro is a class that requires skill
You need jesus
@kshack Agreed on most points. However, the Pyro is on baseline speed. The only things faster than him by default (AKA without stuff like the Equalizer or Chargin' Targe) are the Scout and Medic.
years later, gone through numerous updates, people still defending pyro on this exact video
@Mikzuu94 Compression Blast is also great for knocking other players around. I get much more use out of it by separating ubering medics from their protection than I do deflecting rockets. Also, if a compression blasting pyro is such a huge problem for your soldier, then why not pull out the Direct Hit?
what's next? Medic+Heavy?
@Palamag1 he switched back to the back burner after picking up ammo
looks like a fun game, I think im gonna buy it.
Thanks for sharing!
I like how he ruined a good mouse to peel off the right mouse button when there is no secondary fire for the backburner.
nice. reminds me of the time i ubered a pyro and we killed 5 guys plus a sentry, tele, and a dispenser. all in under 20 seconds.