Authortube: Beta Readers | An Opinion from a Self-publishing Veteran
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 лют 2025
- Prompted by a Facebook post upon which I was able to give my opinion on beta readers, I decided to make this Authortube video discussing the same and give my answer in video form as well.
Warning, this video might be controversial and you might not agree with what I have to say. That's fair and that's your right. This is just the opinion of a self-publishing veteran (22 years) who's part of the old guard of writers, so to speak.
For those curious, I've played the role of author, publisher, and editor. I've done deals with New York and abroad. My label was also a traditional publishing house for a time. These items are listed so you know where I'm coming from.
Anyway, please enjoy this old guy's opinion on beta readers and if a writer should use them or not.
Thanks for watching.
Please subscribe for all the latest Authortube videos!
Peace.
Web: www.canisterx.com
LinkTree: linktr.ee/apfuchs
Patreon: / apfuchs
#authortube #booktube #writer #writing #publishing #APFuchs #selfpublishing #betareaders #opinion #editing #books #ebooks #author
I agree that beta readers can be confusing and even misleading in the sense that you’re trying to squeeze in 8 different pieces of advice, 8 different perspectives on your book. And if you’re still honing your craft and don’t have confidence in your vision, you might think you have to take everything or you might get overwhelmed by conflicting opinions. However, I disagree that just because someone gives input on the book, it harms the artistic integrity. Authors sharing their book with others to get their opinion is as old as writing. Tolkien and Lewis, for instance, regularly shared their manuscripts with a group of writers called the Inklings and got feedback. It’s one tool at the author’s disposal, and editors are another. The choice about which advice to take and how to hone your story at the end of the day is yours. But I certainly agree about the dangers of beta reading, especially if you’re getting a small sample size of readers who don’t really understand story craft. Great video!
Ultimately, it comes down to who's voice(s) is in the book. If it's the author's, then they can get full byline. If it's anyone else's, they can't in the purest sense claim full byline.
Thanks for the feedback.
The idea of beta readers is they point out what you cannot see because you’re so close to the work. They’re not editors , they don’t tell you how to fix problems, and you only take the suggestions you agree with.
The thing is, that's the editor's job: to separate the forrest from the trees. If beta readers are not skilled writers or editors, then their separating the forrest from the trees--as you said--should be very carefully reviewed/considered. There's mechanics to a story that beta readers don't understand unless they practice the craft themselves. That's the big concern, imo.
I am a little curious of where the rise in beta reads has come from. Is it a true conflation of what an editor does? Does it come from an idea that you don't have to pay beta readers like you do an editor, because editors are trained vs beta readers who are untrained? I dont know the economics of beta readers because I've not wanted one.
I'm an editor and I do writing on the side, and I'm currently beta reading a my friends first book. He's specifically asked me not to edit it, and just tell him what works and doesn't work, because he's already sent it to an editor. I've spoken about this with another writer friend and she brought up that she likes her beta readers to not be writers, because when writers beta read they want the revisions to be done because it's how *they* would have done it. Which, yeah, I can agree with that considering some of the thoughts I have had while reading, but have enough sense to not comment about it. Which does beg the question of why you would want an untrained opinion on something.
I am curious about your opinion on developmental editors, though. You made a mention of it, but didnt go into detail.
Lots of points here. Thanks for the thoughtful post.
One, why would the person you're beta reading for also have the book with an editor? That's like having a partially-built car then asking for it to be safetied.
Yes, finances play a role. Writers don't want to invest in the project so cut corners (which is an indirect indicator on how seriously they take the craft). The problem with that is, as per the general rule of any purchase, you get what you pay for so if you're paying zero, well, guess what you're getting back?
In regards to a writer asking what works and what doesn't, that feeds two points. 1) They don't know the craft. If they did, they would already know the answer to the request. 2) It confirms the question in the video, "Who wrote the book? Who for real wrote it?" Obviously not the one claiming the byline for full credit.
For developmental editing, that's a fairly large topic so I'll try and be brief, but we can always go back and forth. A developmental edit is roughly two jobs in one. It's intended to develop the writer and take them up at least one rung on the ladder in terms of skill. It's also falls under the what works and what doesn't category, circling us back to my first statement. But the key component about what works and what doesn't is the WHY. Only an editor--not a beta reader--who knows their stuff can give that answer. The trick with this part is if indeed something is way off course, it's the developmental editor's job to explain the why of the issue then not touch it in terms of adding words or suggesting them. It gets thrown back to the writer to fix.
You know the rule: an editor is not a co-writer. If they were, you have to share the byline. The editor is the one who washes the car and gets it ready for the showroom.
I should also add my rule when editing is you've got three pages to show me your book is ready for an edit. If I find more than 5 mistakes a page on average, you're getting it back until you make it ready. This rule prevents me from being a cowriter. (And by mistakes I mean real writing errors not an accidentally missplaced comma.)
@@apfuchs I thought his order of operations was a little off too, considering he's already changed parts of his manuscript since he's sent it to her. But I wasn't going to bring anything up since the files were already sent.
I will say to your first point of: They don't know the craft. If they did, they would already know the answer to the request. Yes, I am in full agreement. With that said, I can understand the anxiety that comes with some writers and their work and the feelings of self-worth that they put into it. While I don't know what's in my friends head, this is his first book, and there's a lot of rookie mistakes that I really hope the editor points out because he doesn't want my opinion on it. I could imagine that there's some level of anxiety associated with the anticipated red pen, and he (and therefore others) would like some kind of positive feedback as a balm for the burn before the fire hits. Which, I can already point out the issue with that, but I have had that fear before. The fear of the unknown, the want to know that there's some worth to your writing before you even put it out.
Additionally, I think that last part would lead into your second point, the question of the video. Because you're going to get one of two sides, affirmation that things are good and fine which does nothing for anyone besides waste time, or you get too many pens on the page which is a waste of the author's time.
I think that's a pretty reasonable, compact opinion for developmental editing. If you want, I'm also happy to back and forth. To a point I disagree, I do not think that an editor should have their hands in the writing what-so-ever, however I do think that some small suggestions - some open ended suggestions - are appropriate because it helps get the writer thinking about how it can be fixed especially when it is something quite a large fix. Like having an underdeveloped culture in a fantasy book, but there's a creation myth section. Saying that the culture should be expanded is something that can be explained why it doesn't work, but asking how that culture interacts with the creation myth is a suggestion that can get the writer's brain going about how they can expand it without putting words in their head. Yes, this is a little hand-hold-y, but it has worked wonders especially for newer authors who are still learning their voice.
That's a decent rule to keep yourself as distant from the other piece as you can manage.
Hi. I think there was slight miscommunication on the developmental edit disagreement. What I stated matches what you stated only you offered more words (ie. Your example of fleshing out myths in a fantasy story; this is what I meant by the "why" when handing the book back to the writer during the developmental stage. Obviously every editor works slightly differently so maybe my why and your why will be different in terms of relay of information. If I read you correctly, your why would contain some suggestions/ideas to get the ball rolling. My why is more mechanical when the suggestion(s) is offered and is done through questions so the writer has to engage their imagination to answer them. Example: This myth, how long ago did this alleged event(s) take place? Who was there? Was there a battle or peace? Does someone from the time of the myth play a part in the story's present day? If so, be sure to make the connection to add depth, etc.
I suppose my stance is a bit harsher than some, but I was a traditional publisher and editor for many years and at one point got caught in the editor-being-the-cowriter loop. In fact, I basically rewrote an entire book through an edit and it went on to sell a pile of copies, a movie, and other stuff, and guess who got the credit? Not me. It's not sour grapes. I'm a professional and don't have time for that nonsense. It was just a wake-up call for writer-to-editor reliance.
The biggest mistake any writer can make is relying (keyword) on their editor. No. You can't. I don't do that with my own work before passing it off. The job of the writer is to make it as if the editor will be the only reader ever to see the book. A finite audience of one forever. If a writer views the work that way and is serious, they will do their best to make the book as solid as possible so their one-person audience has a pleasant read despite throwing in some corrections here and there.
The big problem in the industry since the Kindle boom is 1) Everyone is now a writer. This is not true in the purest sense and I'm not being elitist. Yes, most definitely, a person who writes (regardless of quality) is a writer no different than someone who paints is an artist. However, the catch is are you learning or do you have a solid hold on the rules of writing, whether those are the rules set in stone, the rules that can be bent, and the rules that can occasionally be broken? This dicates what kind of writer you are: half developed or fully developed? (I use "fully" loosely because art, by default, is a path of constant learning and refinement. No one ever achieves perfection or mastery. We might give that label to make money but in truth, it's misguiding.)
Next, for some reason writers have it in their head that anything they write is for market yet any other artistic medium doesn't operate that way. As I always say, does an artist publish/sell every drawing or painting? Does a filmmaker always put everything caught on camera forward to the public? No. So why, as an industry, are we allowing this? When the Kindle boom happened, I publicly stated it'll wreck the market through flooding. That came to pass. Next prediction was sales struggles for independents, partially rooted in the flooded market but mostly rooted in basic poor quality work. If a reader takes a chance on a couple unknowns and is given crap, then going name-brand-only from then on (or at least a solid while) is the only logical reaction. These predictions aren't to toot my own horn but to partially illustrate what's happening right now.
And you're right: Fear of the red pen is a thing, which is why if you have a good editor, he/she will red up your page but will also spatter the manuscript with a sentence or two of praise if something is well done. (I use track changes in MSWord for the edits and then the Comments function for the why of the error and also to throw in a boost when I read a cool line of dialogue or there's a twist that I didn't see coming and the writer pulled it off so it makes sense despite it being a twist. Stuff like that.)
Step one should always been learning the craft. Step two is then looking at potential (another keyword) release.
@@apfuchs I can see where I had that misunderstanding. My bad, apologizes. Yes, every editor is going to have their own way of communicating the same point. Some are going to be harder, others are going to be softer, and everywhere in between.
I think you and I are on the same page, just with different approaches. ♥
While there might not be sour grapes, I can understand how that would put a bitter taste in your mouth. I'm sorry you got caught up in that.
Regarding your third paragraph: "I don't do that with my own work before passing it off." I think this is a slippery slope. While I don't want to get too off from the topic of the video, I think that holding yourself to a high standard is great. It's how you improve and push yourself to continue to evolve as a writer and to strengthen your craft. However, by letting this "if I don't do this then you shouldn't either" infect more areas of your writing, you can determent yourself. This field is already full of "if I can't be the next Stephen King then I'm not worth anything" which is a really sad thing to hear. Perhaps this is a bit of a soft way of looking at it - too Kindle boom of a mindset - but I do think that every author should get a chance to tell their story in some capacity (not necessarily through publication) without putting impossible standards on themselves.
I agree that it's a little strange that every writer thinks they have to make money from what they write. Maybe over encouragement? Who knows, that goes into generational communication which is not a subject to dive into. I found that I enjoyed my writing so much more since I stopped thinking about publication. Back to the "write for yourself" kind of adage, and it helped improve my narrative voice and form. Everyone always told me that I should write a book, that I would be the next Stephen King, and I believed that from a very young age. Once I figured out that I didn't want to be him, that I excelled at short stories and novellas, and that I didn't care if I ever got published - things worked out a lot better for me. I wonder if others have had similar experiences, but haven't had the revelation yet.
For being so hard on oneself, it was how I was raised (old country parenting). It's a balancing act both personally (for wellbeing) and as a means to help others. I don't know your age, but as part of the old guard, we don't play the "everyone gets a trophy" game because that always backfires.
I agree everyone should get a chance to tell their story. Just tell it well.