Lufthansa Allegris Has Been a $3B Mess. It’s Also Kinda Genius…
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- Опубліковано 3 сер 2024
- Why Won't Lufthansa Retire the 747? • Why Won't Lufthansa Re...
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Chapters:
Intro - 0:00
What is Allegris? - 1:06
Lufthansa's Risky Decision - 2:27
3 Major Objectives - 5:02
Objective 1 - 6:04
Objective 2 - 7:10
Objective 3 - 8:55
Closing Thoughts - 10:29
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Airlines across the world are leveling up. In the past few years, we’ve seen airlines like British Airways, Air France, Finnair, and many, many more start to outfit their planes with new, modern interiors. The latest to join the party is Lufthansa, whose new Allegris cabin product debuted just a few months back.
Nowf, upgrading your cabin is always a difficult process. But, in the case of Allegris, Lufthansa took things to a whole different level. They made the process even more difficult by designing the cabin in-house, rather than pawning off the work to a third party. This has famously led to cost overruns and repeated delays. And it's caused many people to wonder weather Allegris was just one big mistake.
So, why exactly has Allegris been so challenging? Why did Lufthansa actively take this harder path? And most importantly…was it all worth it? Let me explain…
#lufthansa #aviation #a350 #allegris #airbus - Ігри
I was skeptical at first but Allegris actually looks amazing
Looks pretty good to me, glad they are finally updating their cabin
anything to keep the 747 flying is a thumbs up for me
Unfortunately you made a big mistake during research, which would have made for a different conclusion. Allegris cannot fit "42 Allegris seats in the same space" and also the numbers at 9:33 are incorrect (36 + 8 + 4 = 48, not 42).
First mistake: The correct numbers are 38 Business (incl. 8 Suites; so 30 C + 8 C Suites) + 3-4 First.
Second mistake: Allegris needs way more space, which is obvious in the official seat map - or just by the fact Y had to be reduced from 224 to 201 seats and one lavatory removed. Between doors 1 and 2 were 36 C seats in the old 2-2-2 configuration, now 20 C + 3-4 First. So 36 vs. 24 (maybe 2 more with Allegris C instead of F) in the same floorspace. 3-4 additional PAX in F, 10 less PAX in C and 3 more in Y+ must pay at least as much money as 23 PAX would have in Y to break even.
For comparison: Finnair fits 30 AirLounge seats (also 1-2-1) + 2 lavatories in the same space Lufthansa installed its 24 and no lavatory. At least your statement at 9:52 is correct: Such a mess would not have been possible with "off the shelf" seats :D
I think he wanted to emphasise when showing the seat numbers that with Allegris there are not only 48 business class seats, but they can now offer 4 First and 8 business class suites in the same space.
On the Lufthansa website, 42 seats are indicated: www.lufthansa.com/content/dam/lh/images/local_variations/seatmaps/de/lh_allegris_a350-900_seatmap_de.pdf
Thanks for pointing this out. I was gonna write the same thing.
Just comparing floor space on the A350 is kinda hard, because they have the first up there. But when you look at the 787 seatmap (which is available for example on aerolopa), you can compare the floorspace to like every other 787(-9) operator.
Looking at just the floorspace between L1 und L2 (the first two sets of doors):
Lufthansa Allegris: 28 (w/o lav)
Lufthansa current: 26 (w/ two lavs, this is the later bought version with 1-2-1)
United: 32 (w/o lav)
So at best, Allegris uses the same space as off-the-shelf seats but with modern layouts like united has, you can fit way more.
Unfortuantly some bad research from @Coby Explanes here...
Also operationally this is gonna be mess. Imagine paying extra for the extra legroom seat to just be put into a aisle seat because the seat broke. There is a reason other airlines like to keep all their seats similar.
Allegris looks very nice and clean 👌
I was extremely skeptical of Alegris coming in but I'm a believer now, so many choices of seat to fit your needs. Absolutely going to give this a try now.
Did you voice over your recording in the plane or just mime with your lips haha
I was wondering this too!
One of the problems I see with Allegris (in addition to not being as dense as the old cabins) is that they are heavy. Like quite a bit heavier than the old seats. This runs counter to the airline's claims to reduce CO2 emissions, where most airlines are trying to make their seats lighter.
Not when you account for the greatly improved efficiency of the new generation aircraft it's mostly be installed on.
The Allegris business and first class cabins are significantly less dense than the old cabins. The old cabins go to the 7th window after door 2 whilst the new cabins go to the 11th window after door 2 WITH fewer seats. This is why there are fewer economy seats in the new A350s. Yes, Lufthansa have cleverly monetised the Business Suites but they are bulkhead seats and would have taken up extra space anyway. The layout Lufthansa has chosen is similar to United Polaris except it sacrifices one seat every two rows AT LEAST, not to mention the extra pitch for the privacy and extra long seats. At the end of the day, this seat is MUCH less dense than the old one, and I'm not a fan of charging a premium for a window-adjacent seat in business class. Lufthansa are going in the same direction as Swiss with offering a very average business class seat as a basic option and charging heaps extra for the actually competitive seats. The classic Allegris business class seat is nothing special, in fact, it's not at all private and offers not a lot of space. But they advertise all the other seats to draw customers in. Allegris was an expensive mess that's only smoke and mirrors. And Qsuite is still better than 80% of seats in that cabin.
Thank you for your answer, they will call this the throne seat and will increase the price
Yeah, pretty bad research/facts on this one :/ Allegris probably is the least space efficient 1-2-1 Business (w/o doors) on the planet.
This actually makes perfect sense. Lufthansa definitely made the right decision in designing it themselves. Also, as a Canadian, I'm curious why Lufthansa decided to fly Allegris here first. It's an honour, but I was wondering why Canada out of all places? (Vancouver is a really nice destination though with beautiful scenery)
Probably to work out the kinks in the new seats (there are always some with a new design), before rolling it out to more important markets for them.
I expect incase anyrthing goes wrong it doesn’t matter too much copmared to more important routes..
A big reason is because they were still waiting on permits from the FAA to be able to fly to the US, which is Lufthansa’s biggest Market.
Can’t wait for Lufthansa to install this allegris products to 747-8I
The problem is that Qatar is about the unveil Q-Suites 2.0. We'll see if Allegris still looks good when that happens...
Qatar should implement QSuites across their whole fleet first before they update it. The amount of airplanes not fitted with QSuites yet is ridiculuous, feels like the longest rollout ever.
Something that is good still stays good when something else that is also good comes out.
Besides, I am not a insider or a air travel aficionado, but for some reason a bunch of flight review videos popped up in my recommendations about half a year ago and I watched some and I was surprised to hear most of those reviewers say that Qatar has lost its good reputation and is only coasting on its past glory nowadays, providing a sub-par product for top prices.
@@TrangleC Having flown Qatar Business a few times the past year, I would agree with that sentiment. The cabin crew are still amazing, which makes liking Qatar even harder when you know how badly the company treats them. The lounge isn't as great as most of the reviews make it out to be and aside from QSuites Qatar has nothing to offer what sets them apart. And on my 8 business long haul flights with Qatar last year none of the planes had QSuites installed. They promote the crap out of services they don't even offer on many flights. If I didn't know that beforehand and redeemed most of those flights but payed money for them, I would have been terribly disappointed.
The update is relatively meh. Some new layouts, some improvements but nothing major.
The new layout did come at the expense of economy seats, with fewer of them, but since business class travellers are more lucrative, I’m sure that was a hit Lufthansa was willing to make. There’s still lots of questions to be answered around how LH will price all those options. I just booked a flight with them and they were charging ludicrous money for seat selection in economy, so I will just try my luck at check in. I don’t know if they charge for seat selection in business now, but if they do start doing that for Allegris, I’m worried they might start turning people away.
I agree with the comments criticizing the booking and logistical headache but i also dont get the comments saying its amazing. To me it honestly looks like many other business cabins, I just don't see the stark difference Coby or the comments see. Business suites look like the shared Q-suites, we've definitely seen the throne seat before many times over and the others are just nornal seats.
The seat heating and (particularly for me) cooling is a nice touch and innovation, the tablet is a nice reimplemention of what Emirates have done for a decade. But otherwise i dont see the benefit over buying a tweaked off the shelf implementation like everyone else.
Wasted money and effort in my opinion
most passengers DON'T fly business class, so I kept waiting for anything that would discuss main cabin...ALSO this airline has lost my business since it removed all the individual air vents from seats
For me, Allegris is a defensive strategy, not an offensive strategy. This is because Lufthansa relies on people flying to/from Germany while the ME3 rely on people flying through their hubs. A Qatar Q-suites is much more simpler for a passenger to understand yet on par if not better. ANA the Room and JAL's new business class are also up there.
Given your Qsuite not getting a last minute equipment swap, it would be simpler.🤭🤭🤭🤭
You'd be surprised at how many people fly Lufthansa as a connecting airline and will NOT be flying specifically to Germany as their end destination. If the fare is right, Frankfurt and Munich are gateways to everywhere in Europe a passenger wants to fly to (the same applies to any other European airline, of course). But even more relevant are the intercontinental connections.
For example, there is high passenger demand from South America to the Far East and vice versa (Brazil and Peru have some of the largest ethnic Japanese populations outside Japan; China, Japan, and South Korea have huge investments in the region; trade with China is important everywhere these days, and the list of reasons goes on), but nonstop flights are not possible due to the distance, and one-stop flights are not profitable due to the operational costs. Currently, only Air China flies from Beijing to São Paulo, South America's largest connection hub (and largest single city market in its own right, too), on 787s with a refueling stop in Madrid.
Additionally, visa requirements for Latin American and Chinese citizens to transit in the U.S. or Canada make the Pacific route unfeasible for many passengers. Getting a U.S. or Canadian visa is an expensive, lengthy, and bureaucratic process, and it can still be denied. Weeks of hassle, stress, and expense just to be able to spend a couple of hours on the ground at LAX, JFK, or YYZ. So, it has to be over the Atlantic, as neither European nor Middle Eastern countries require visas for Latin American or Chinese passengers to transit through them.
This means a banquet for the Middle Eastern airlines (Emirates has a daily A380 to/from São Paulo, Qatar has two daily 777s, and Turkish two daily A350s, all of them always full and mostly with passengers flying to/from China or Japan). But European airlines also get their share of that connecting traffic (even Ethiopian does!), and Lufthansa is one of the most common choices. Its Web-published fares are usually high, but you'd also be surprised at the deals that brick-and-mortar travel agencies specializing in this route and with good connections inside Lufthansa and other airlines can get, and that's what many people do.
Seriously looks amazing. I had written off their business class - but will definitely give it a shot now.
Allegris really looks great and seems to truly transform the airline! Will the product soon be installed on the B747-8? Do you know when if so?? I hope if it’s soon I can fly it this January when I fly the LH 747-8! 😅
Cheers 🥂 my friend!
-Caleb’s Aviation
It will be installed in Lufthansa's A350s, 787s and 747-8s although since the seats are so heavy the old biz cabin is still gonna be flying in the upperdeck
An analogy for many large scale German projects, like the airport in Berlin, the opera House in cologne, the new central station in Stuttgart: ideas are ambitions, quality demands are high and time horizons are illusory. But after cost overhauls and deadlines postponed the results are actually quite nice.
Allegris is going to be an absolute headache for everyone involved with a half-dozen different seats, in essence, within Business, all at different price points. The marketing team will need to succinctly communicate to the flyer the differences among them all, revenue management has to figure out how to optimize it, novice flyers will get frustrated by having too many options, and gate agents will run into problems trying to reassign seats when the tech-laden seat inevitably breaks. Leave it to the Germans to overcomplicate things. I’m eternally grateful they didn’t invent the paper clip.
Not to mention the problems that will occur on equipment swaps.
Agreed. Germans overly complicate simple things
@@suprashank I would argue it's typical Lufthansa Management rather than "German Overengineering". Have a look at Condors new Business: Off the shelf seat (Safran Skylounge Core) with some nice finishing and a special first row to make use of the extra space.
@@suprashankThat's why they are losing many things in every aspects because of their arrogance and still they apply Hitler's raciest strategy.
It's good for those who know how to choose and make the best out of their options, but will be bad chaotic for those who don't.
Great explanation!
Coby Please.....
1. How Delta/Etihad bounce back to make profit
2. Project sunrise
3. 777X Problem and EIS
4. Why Premium economy and why airlines and passenger love it
5. Indonesia carriers struggle
*just make these that you think still Relevant*
LOVE YOUR VIDEOS AS ALWAYS❤❤❤
Designing your own cabin is very German.
Your last 5ish vids don’t have the sound lined up with lipsync
Maybe the over run etc was due to having the same people who worked on the new Berlin Airport :))))
Middle and back of the plane get there at the same time....at quite a cost saving.
I don't fly internationally very often, but they can be very long flights. I welcome not being treated like a sardine, so this looks good.
I feel lufthansa business class once with my dad. When I look at the allegris cabin, it looks like everyone is isolated. Even the middle row with a window to look at the other seat looks kind of weird. I guess some people like that, but I imagine a lot of people travel in pairs as well and don't expect to be antisocial to eachother. Personally I think 3 foot tall office-walled cabins look ugly.
I don't understand why people want to isolate themselves into their bubbles, especially in business and first class. I look at these business class "suites" and think to myself: but I *want* to interact with my fellow business class travelers.
@@FryChickenfair, of course they may not want to interact with you. Particularly if they want to sleep, the privacy is more welcome
@@infidellic One does not exclude the other
Me: Why would anyone want to spend the time and money to design and implement a complicated, overengineered solution that will be a nightmare to maintain?
Lufthansa: Hold my schnitzel!
Coby, you've made the video about future B787 IGW.(increased gross weight) a couple years ago.
Can you tell me, when they are going to appear in your opinion? Just there is no much information about this on open sources .😔
Can't wait to see B787-9 and B787-10ER.
I’m willing to try any other premium cabin/airline over LH. Their soft product/service has always been anemic even in J class.
Short term pain for long term gain.
Terrific video, Coby
As a Singaporean, I would Personally prefer SQ more than Lufthansa for A350. Lufthansa was the 10th airline to fly The Airbus biggest twinjet, A350.
You were filming at the wrong shutter speed, that's how you ended up with all this flicker.
The configuration is too complicated, it’s hard to provide consistent experience
I'm watching this Aviation News Topic on Allegris that Lufthansa Airlines is Modernised with right now Awesome Video Coby Explains nuff respect to all your Videos on Aviation and Travel keep going and Dream Big on Aviation Man 💯
Excellent video again
I hope that Allegris won't put an end to the 747 😥😥😥😥.
Love the videos!😊
Recently traveled with Lufthansa. Not only was the cabin old, it was poorly maintained. Business class seat was broken and uncomfortable. Service was not great - they only come around at fixed mealtimes. The food was meh. Frankfurt, their hub, is a warren, unevenly updated, and comes complete with bad tempered staff to really round it out. Allegris will fix their broken old seat issue, but till they fix all their other problems they will struggle to compete.
Typical of LH
Another great video Coby. Question, do you know if Allegris will be implemented on Lufthansa's A380s? Let me know!
Looks like Lufthansa will finally be a 5 star airline again
Awesome! 😎
Are you listening Southwest Airlines?
The best seats have a lie flat bed, a good food and drink selection and a door for privacy when resting.
Thus seems to me an unwieldy list of products within one cabin.
Gamechanger doesn’t feature an onboard shower
Too many seating choices in one cabin. The extra long seat doesn't help tall passengers if it's already been selected by someone else. Do you pay more for different seat types? What if the extra space seats and suites are leftover, does the next passenger get them allocated for free? What if a senator passenger needs a seat at last minute, do other passengers get downgraded to a standard seat? Plus some centre seats can only be accessed from one aisle making it tricky to work out which aisle to use when there's a queue behind you. Many questions to answer.
Exactly this. It only presents choice to pax if all options are available otherwise it might price you out of the cabin that you would otherwise would have spent your €€€ on for a standardized seat
Lufthansa has outrageously optimized operating costs by downgrading the service standards. Most notably EU routes have witnessed decadence of Lufthansa services.
They're bringing back some stuff. Like beverage service for economy class on intra-european routes. If they do more like this, there may yet be hope.
They will also fly to cape town that's good because I live in Durban qnd we will be flying to to CApe town
It sure looks good, but ordinary people never travel outside basic economy...
Great video Coby. A lot of work doing those edits!
Allegris Is Super amazing But Singapore Airlines remains My most favorite airline for A350.
It just can't beat the middle eastern airliners
Sounds like a prescription drug name.
The main issue for their business has been their insistence to keep the 2 2 2 layout with outdated hard product which 99% of people hate and most airlines got rid of decades ago! They even had this crap layout in their new 747-800. Late to the party? The declined the invite :))
Okay yes this is genius indeed. Just that why did it cost 2.5bil lol
Imagine this in 2017 😂
You can invest in hardware all you like, but LH still has the most miserable in-flight staff in the air. I was a loyal customer…not anymore.
No door?
I'm boarding
Colby great video but horrible seats. That seats looks like you couldn’t even fit your shoulders in it if you had leaned back. I think it was a mistake to design them in-house cramming in as many seats as possible. The old seats look more spacious and comfortable. They should have opted for a 1-2-1 configuration or even Polaris seats. I wouldn’t fly them unless it was for the 747 or A380. I’d rather fly Delta one on the A350 or A330neo. Plus I hear they are keeping the old seats on the upper deck of the 747’s anyway 🤷♂️
Allegris is culturally an everything german solution
"The food has improved...." while he struggles to cut through the meat :D
Lufthansa its not an airline its a bus company they are always behind of other airlines it will take another 10 years till they finish the upgrade by that time other airlines will have something fantastic
The Lusthansa is going down, landing in bankcrupcy earlier than you think
it is a mystery to me how tf you manage to film every video in a business class cabin
Looks nice but it will take AT LEAST 10 YEARS to change all the long haul fleet .... Now only 3-4 planes
Si it's going to be 2-2-2 configuration no privacy for LONG LONG TIME
So more & more customers will fly Air France, BA, ITA, Iberia 1-2-1 configuration or Emirates and Qatar.
Furthermore, Lufthansa are going to increase their PRICE due to EU who force them to use SAF and not Emirates, Qatar and all other airlines who are going to be much more CHEAPER
I heart they offer coffee again since recent days 😂 no chance I'll fly Lufthansa
dead chat
At min 11.19 you seem inside a coffin, not for sure in a business class seat. In a 12 hour time flight I don`t care how quick is the monitor if there is no space to even reach my pockets.
Its a mess, too little too late, their costs are too high and their staff are too expensive and unskilled .....Lufthansa has no premium pricing ability in Europ'e most important business class market - London, their yields have been trash for the last decade.
But London isn’t Lufthansas market…
early
All this cost more!!! I am not one for bells and whistles GIVE ME A BETTER SEAT and leave me alone!!
6:39 holyfuuk you're wearing a Longines Spirit Zulu Time!
is this the 42mm?
Lufthansa is ok, for me sitting on the lower deck of an A380 gotta be the worst flying experience overall. Crappy seats with little stability, dysmal entertainment forcing idiotic ads all the way to smelly toilets. I miss the upper deck of the Jumbo!!
Lufthansa is in hard decline
If you are gonna design custom seats, with 5 different SKUs, with new technology and parts for firmness and temperature control, supply chain problems are guaranteed.
In classic German fashion, every problem is unique, needs to be over engineered and results in a bureaucratic mess.
Hilarious the Lufthansa CEO is crying about losing money due to lack of planes when they have brand new planes not flying due to this self inflicted issue they can ditch anytime.
I thought that American pulling out of corporate travel portals was the dumbest thing I heard about airlines this year, but Allegris takes the cake.
Looks absolutely boring
Hire a professional to narrate your videos. Very unprofessional and difficult to listen to.
Whoa! Great video! And such a handsome guy 😉
Agree. We need to see Coby in his Speedo swim suit!!!