@@palsunstar What myth? If you read his accounts of his collaborations almost everyone of them end "I realized it wasn't going to work out with so and so and I left." If every relationship you're in is bad at some point you need to realize, it's not them, it's you.
Agreed. Perez’s problem for the industry is not his skill or body of work, but that he is known to be very slow (and slower as he aged). The books he worked on in the latter years were known to be late.
Can you blame them? Most current editors don’t even know how to sell or manage their teams, plus most seem content in only hiring bloggers and not actual writers.
Agreed, Kevin. I wish Marvel and DC would clean house of these unsellable writers and artists who are plaguing these characters with stupid politics and get back to true characterization and great art.
As an artist in my 50s, I am starting to hit a physical wall. Arthritis enters the picture. And vision has become an even bigger problem. I can draw but it takes longer and I can’t do it for long periods. Which is frustrating because my style has improved over the years. I’d imagine many of these guys are facing similar problems.
A good example of an accomplished writer and artist who doesn't get work is Jerry Ordway. He rose to prominence in the 1980's and early 1990's. Good to see that his Power of Shazam series has been reprinted.
I can't get into contemporary comic books. I was a kid in the 80s, so I guess I was spoiled. John Byrne, Walt Simonson and George Perez were my favourite artists back then, and remain so to this day. When the 90s came, I read comics less and less, until I stopped reading them altogether. There's something about modern comics that really turn me off. I don't know what it is, but I find them dull. Maybe I have a nostalgic view, but I've started going back to that golden time in the 80s, the first time seeing the work of Frank Miller and Bill Sienckewicz.... The work of these guys, and many others, still inspire me today. I guess you could say I'm old school.
The thing that you are identifying about modern comics is that the art is photorealistically grim and gritty instead of cartoons, the characters aren't written to model, and there aren't enough superhero fight scenes in superhero comics. Also "writing for the trade" causes superheroes attending meetings instead of churning through bad guys.
I can relate, I read comics for escapism not to be preached to. Early comics were able to deliver moral stories without being all in your face about everything, just my two-pence worth.
Well,take a look at th cover prices back then compared to now.what kids (parents) are gonna she'll out cash for one magazine instead of the many that were available back then.lts a ruined business that greed also inhabits & controls.Not even back issues are safe...Dangit!
@BavarianRev yes, he writes draws and inks, I think Laura Martin is the colourist. It's published through IDW, a series of miniseries. Highly recommended.
For some reason, this made me think about Herb Trimpe in the 90s when he was forced to ape Liefeld on Fantastic Four Unlimited just to continue getting work at Marvel. That was a very sad thing to see.
I've heard that it was his decision to go that route. regardless, it wasn't a good move. I noticed it right off the bat, and was shocked at his new work. I am to this day, still in awe at some of his old work from 1968-1969.
Trimpe's story was tragic. I remember that FFU book and it was heartbreaking. After all his years at Marvel, those cunts fired him via a Fed Ex'd letter. Absolutely disgraceful.
Age can diminish a person's talents. George Perez's worsening eyesight was the reason he retired. But I wonder about Jerry Ordway, Mike Zeck, J.L Garcia-Lopez, Rags Morales, Eduardo Barreto, Paul Gulacy... do they still have what it takes? Are guys like Jim Starlin, Art Adams, Alan Davis and Michael Golden retired or are they just expensive for comic companies? Hell, I'd even like to see Keith Pollard, Alan Saviuk or Mike Vosburg do something. Are Sal Buscema, Mike Ploog and Jim Mooney still with us?
I got to see walt at nycc. But I got to talk to his better half "weezie" for like a half hour. It was awesome. I talked to her about her galactus mini series. I loved it, she said marvel editorial did not let her do what she wanted. Sad! Her idea was to make the silver surfer take over galactus's role.
George Perez had to stop because of diabetes. Its not just them, where are the big names from the 90s or all the people discovered by Image, Dark Horse, etc. that were one hit wonders.
I think there’s more nuances to why some of the old greats are not around. Some have retired, some are too expensive, some don’t want that old style, and maybe there’s other reasons I don’t know about. But those who still want to be probably can still produce a great comic.
Perez is diabetic & has sited diminished eyesight as his reason for retiring. Byrne `s last work I saw was on Superman years ago & wasn`t up to the old days. Simonson is still working & hasn`t lost a step. In fact , he may be better than ever. I would still love for the first two to comeback though.
The last Byrne work I saw was his most recent Star Trek series for IDW, but that was him doing photo comics with stills from the TV show. Fun stuff, but not really his usual fare.
Yeah, Perez has had many health issues for the past couple decades. I agree with you that Byrne's last DC work as well as his IDW material is ok but many levels below what he turned out in the 70s & 80s, but I guess that's understandable given his age. I feel the same about Simonson's art. His writing is as strong as it's ever been, but I don't think his art is quiet as sharp, IMO... But of course, would rather look at aging Simonson or Byrne art than current crap by the likes of Pepe Larraz or Daniel Acuna.
Isn't the comicbook collecting industry based on "old" stuff? Why would the company ignore a segment that they could profit from? The world is a strange place.
I have been gravitating more to the older pre-90s art styles. I am in the minority but I HATE the Jim Lee, Joe Madureira and Rob Liefeld "extreme" styles. They strain my eyesight. 90s comics are so hideous for me to look at, it's why reading AoA is such a chore. John Byrne is one of my favorite older artists, because of how solid and well-proportioned his characters' anatomy is.
Haha - me too! While I enjoyed Authority and Stormwatch I never cared for that sort of art/style in Marvel or DC. I don't think Liefeld has ever worked on a comic that I've enjoyed I simply find his work ugly and unappealing.
Man, you did it again. Truly a blast from the past. I used to mock my friend for buying Teen Titans - at the risk of sounding PC, I found the orange lady cheesecake a bit much. But the man could draw. I remember reading the Simonson Thor...from the beginning, the issue where Beta's ship blasts Thor. I didn't really read comic news back then, didn't know anything about upcoming projects or whatever. I followed the Avengers back then, but I wasn't a Thor fan. I just happened to pick the book up, and I was blown out of my socks by the story and the art. And the signature. And the lettering...I became a Thor fan. I have many many Byrne FF4 splash pages printed on the back of my brain. Galactus: "I...am...dying."
Any of these guys could do successful Indiegogo or Kickstarter campaigns. They would have to own the rights to all concepts and characters, of course. Jim Starlin is about to ship on his "Dreadstar Returns" graphic novel via Kickstarter.
Todd McFarlane talked about this briefly in. one of his Spawn videos where he mentioned one motivation for branching off into toys was he didn't want all his eggs in one basket just in case his art career was "washed up", or perceived as such. Publisher Jim Lee talked about the importance of "...keeping your art current!" And of course, there is the infamous story of how once Carmine Infantino came to power at DC in the 60s, he embarked on an "Out with the old, in with the new" campaign where they moved torward relatively more "realistic" stories and artwork to compete with Marvel! It led to many new faces and the marginalization or departure of industry veterans! Byrne, Perez, Simonson and others did comics for the PARENTS of today's fans and there's no escaping this reality!
My hat is off to John Romita Jr, who is still doing a monthly book. He's one of the greats from the 70's-80's. I'm not sure if he was fired from Marvel or left by choice, but that move had to be hugely stressful for him.
Your gripe about people trying to discard old art styles and the art style of each time period following trends mostly is all too familiar to me in video games. The time window was pretty much the same, too, despite comics being a much older industry: second half of the 90s, and to some extent the first half, with digitized sprites and full-motion video games. Top-of-the-line video game companies also tend to let go of talent that is getting too established, but for (what I believe are) largely different reasons: Sometimes the old talent is questioning the importance of in-game diversity initiatives, other times they're prioritizing fun over gritty "true art," other times they're pushing back against the latest monetization scheme, other times they're prioritizing old fans over some new demographic the studio wants to attract. And in both comics and video games, Japan has been largely immune to this trend.
Japan went through similar periods. Its just because of their form polite social of courtesy that disgruntled feelings, hot takes, and any other opinions are viewed as bringing disharmony publicly. The Japanese don't like drama or grievances to be aired publicly. But the fans online in Japan are vicious with their criticism of any and everything. Japan has had worse bullying and cyber bulling issues longer than we have. And they got the suicide rates to back that up.
@@Damackism Japanese entertainment does go through trends (angry anime in the late 80s and early 90s, moe style today) but those trends aren't as drastic as trends in Western entertainment and more works buck those trends, and I'm pretty sure Japan always has a cultural respect for established, proven talent.
@@theinvisibleskulk4563 I agree with you up to a certain extent. They don't seem as drastic because they are not publicly verbally criticised as much as when things change drastically here. But if you go on any online msg board in various anime or manga fandoms the criticism and insults are pretty vicious.Manga Creators and Anime Directors have actually ended up in hospital emergency rooms in Japan. Due to stress and depression. What keeps the anime and manga companies and creators from destroying the industry. Is the fact it is a very hardcore meritocracy based industry. Meaning you have to earn your spot or job. And maintain your spot of popularity and sells numbers in order to continue having your work published. This used to apply to the American comic book industry up until the last 5 yrs.
I think you nailed what I did not like about 90's comics - it's that they all looked the same. As far as what big names I would like to see return to comics - Michael Golden, Mike Zeck, and David Mazuchelli.
Well (from afar): Byrne is a Republican. Perez got taken for granted and his partner in crime (Denny) for most cons was deteriorating so there was no enjoyment around comics generally. Simonson is white and (had) red hair. Also they have talent - yep, that is why they can't get regular gigs - because they are too much a threat at overachieving compared to their fellow creators, embarrassing them in the process (Something they still think we don't know or notice as readers LOL)
Almost no modern comic book artists work really stands out like they did in the 90’s and earlier for the most part it all looks the same, back in those days you could identify an artist’s style by the way they drew faces and poses and the like.
John Byrne was my favorite artist back in the day. His style made an impact and I still see his influence in my art even to this day. He`s made some enemies in the business so maybe it`s not surprising he`s not getting any work at Marvel or DC...he`s effectively blackballed. He makes a ton of money off commissions. Some of the pieces on his website are classic Byrne and collectors pay big bucks for them.
JB used to make money off commissions. He stopped doing commissions quite awhile ago. I'm enjoying his "run" on X-Men Elsewhen. 17 issues in so far. Great stuff.
@@palsunstar I didn't know Byrne stopped doing commissions. It was one of the things on my bucket list that I would get my hands on a Byrne piece. Always thought I could just get him to do a commission for me at some point as a "plan B". I'm enjoying Elsewhen as well. Never thought I'd see the day when I'd see Byrne doing X-Men again. Seems like Byrne is "re-inventing" himself in this series....doesn't have a lot of his usual "stock" poses and tropes. Thanks for the reply!
Byrne back on FF? Hell yeah. It probably will never happen though. I would love to read new Spidey stories by Roger Stern. With him taking over Amazing Spider-Man for a long period of time. But that will probably never happen either. So glad I still have the old stuff to read.
John Byrne on the Avengers? Yes, please! That would be great. I'd pay double the price to read that. I also love Walt Simonson's Ragnarok. Because Walt is doing a lot of the work himself, it ships every other month (or so), and is well worth the wait. If you like his style, it is a fantastic book. Perez is still doing the occasional cover. It would be great if they'd get him to do an OGN or annual or something once a year.
Joe Staton, though not on the level of the names mentioned, had a long run at DC. He is best known for his run on Green Lantern. Also was mentioned in the credits of this years Birds of Prey movie as one of the creators of their version of the Huntress. He has stayed busy as the every day artist on the Dick Tracy comic strip so he's staying busy just not in comic BOOK industry.
I was a fan of Staton since "E-MAN" at CHARTLON. His MARVEL inking chores (especially with Sal Buscema) were hit or miss. But his DC "JSA" work was CLASSIC!!! As was The Huntress stuff.
Totally agree! A John Byrne and/or George Perez series would be awesome. I wonder what they would do with Krakoa? But I would also really love a Steve Rude series, either xmen or avengers--or heck, just about anything!!!! Whatever happened to that dude?
I always thought it was the money angle, didn't know that there was a bias against the old stuff (which to me just seems like a few years ago). Back in the 80s adding a big name to a book could increase sales by lets say 20%. On a book that was already selling 200K that's an extra 40K sales, more than enough to cover the cost of the talent. But now comics sell 50K and an extra 10K sales probably won't cover the cost. I might be wrong due to the inflated cover prices though.
There should always be room for both artists old and new to coexist. It's almost like Hollywood: you have your younger actors who are doing well but you also still have your Al Pacinos, Robert DeNiros, Morgan Freemans, etc. in prominent roles. I grew up on guys like Simonson, Byrne, McFarlane, Lee, Liefeld, George Perez, Art Adams (my all time favorite), etc. and still love seeing work from them. There's always room for the legendary artists whether it's with Marvel, DC, or an indy company. As long as that artist is physically able to do it and still has the desire to do it then I say keep it coming (speaking as a fellow artist also).
Back in the 80s, Byrne, Perez and Simonson were the hot names of the day.. Kirby and Ditko, though well on their way to their legendary status, were not. Times change, tastes change.
Hi, Perch, been watching all your stuff lately, and you brought a topic near and dear to me. I grew up reading comics by Byrne, Frank Miller, Simonson, Claremont, Stern, Neal Adams, Chaykin and so on. Therefore, I would welcome all of these guys back. Some of these guys are still doing stuff, some aren't. I certainly supported it. There are exceptions, of course, I know there were some ageism issues some time ago, when Tom Lyle and Jerry Ordway left Marvel and DC respectively due to not getting work. But we have to have in mind Big 2 comics are shrinking, and there's not much room for everyone. As for Byrne, much like I am still a fan, I think the ship has sailed... he was not that interesting back in the late 90's. Thanks for the topic and have a nice day!
@Lierson: "As for Byrne, much like I am still a fan, I think the ship has sailed... he was not that interesting back in the late 90's." That's a matter of opinion... In the late '90's he had a very entertaining run on Wonder Woman (1995-1998; 36 issues, plus 2 annuals & a novel), 25 issues of Jack Kirby's Fourth World (1996-1998) I'm including the 4 issues of New Gods & Darkseid one-shot that JB worked on). Then he & Howard Mackie worked together on Spider-Man & while there were a few naysayers here & there, I enjoyed it all (Spider-Man: Chapter One, Amazing Spider-Man, Peter Parker & a quirky new Spider-Woman). This brought into the year 2000. Then we had Marvel: The Lost Generation (with Roger Stern), X-Men: The Hidden Years (which actually started in 1999), Batman & Superman: Generations (3 scoops!), his short-lived run with Lab Rats (such potential), His JLA run with Chris Claremont, Doom Patrol, & Blood of the Demon. Then JB moved to work at IDW on some cool stuff before finally retiring. There were ups & downs, but even JB's downs are more fun reads than most of today's "talents" are cobbling together.
I’m 56 and these creators were my guys. I only buy trade paperback collections of storylines from 40 or more years ago. Comics aren’t comics anymore. Mutants are more powerful than gods. Mutants are more common than humans. The only wolverine I recognize being like Len Wein’s wolverine is Hugh Jackman’s. The took a feisty short bad ass and turned him into an indestructible Superman who knows every martial arts who can heal back from being vaporize. Ridiculous.
This is one of those situations where several different factors come together. First a lot of classic comic artist were not classically trained artist. So those individual quirks really stood out and made for phenomenal personal styles. Second the industry was small so artist had time to grow and establish fan bases. By the time the 90's hit you started to see classically trained artist enter the industry. With such a similar base editors started choosing artist with styles that mimicked a popular artist. It's not that old styles don't sale but some older untrained artist stick out. The level of sophistication has grown. Example Kirby's imagery is so iconic people still mimic the style today. The hyper realism of Bryan Hitch is heavily influenced by George Perez. Finally we have money companies will higher over seas talent at lower page rates. Young guns new talent show case are companies telling you who to like based on the popularity of the characters they draw as apposed to an earned fan base. Profits, greed and hubris are killing the industry. It's like bohemian culture. We will never get another Soho New York or 60's San Fransisco because developers gentrify them before the can grow. At one point in history artist lived in abandoned warehouse loft space because it was cheep they could afford it. Now it's open concept urban living and no one can afford it. The comic industry commodified unique and quirky as styles now no one stands out or is given a chance to grow and we are the poorer for it.
John Byrne would be very welcome at Marvel or DC. Though I do hear and read that he has some issues with Marvel. Byrne did a fantastic job on Superman, he really got the character.
It's because of all this PC nonsense! The older generation doesn't go for that INSANITY! The classics are still that, CLASSIC! They should be the first hired!
What’s Jim Starlin up to these days? His Thanos graphic novels released over the last few years were fun. He didn’t draw them all but he wrote them all. Hope he’s doing ok.
And some of these new 'artists' ought to take lessons from the 'Masters' on how to draw. Because even if the story is not good, having great art can compensate. Maybe they should obtain copies of the classic 'How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way'.
Would love to see John Byrne, George Perez, and Walt Simonson back. Then again, I'd like to see Jim Lee return to art chores, too. Maybe HE could rescue his old WildStorm creations from DC since they obviously don't know what to do with them.
Where have they gone? They've AGED OUT! They're all grandpappies now! But seriously, those that still have an interest in the industry probably don't much care for most of the current editorial agendas. Some like Perez, Miller and Simonson pop up to do variant covers here and there. I know Perez has had health issues in the past that prevented him from doing regular monthly work. And I don't imagine that the young readers and collectors care much for them with the likes of J. Scott Campbell, Peach Momoko, Humberto Ramos, Daniel Acuna, Pepe Larraz and such... And some, like Byrne, do not have the magic touch they had decades ago. Byrne's last stint at DC, shortly before they launched NEW 52 was adequate, but nothing that dynamically jumped off the page. Even Simonson's fill-in issues on the Avengers about 5yrs back could not compare to his art on FF or X-Factor or Orion, let alone Thor. Byrne's IDW Publishing work outside of Marvel and DC is, again, standard but certainly not breathtaking. I would LOVE to see some of these guys do regular gigs in comics again, but none of their recent stuff is anywhere near as potent as what they turned out decades ago. And I don't think their art styles would be truly appreciated today. It's like when Kirby returned to Marvel in the mid 70s. Many in the industry ran him ragged, basically shi**ing all over his art, saying it was too dated and awkward-looking, unrealistic and not fresh enough.
George Perez is retired John Bryne is an individual case with so many falling outs and rumored returns I’ve lost track... Walt Simonson is still making Ragnorok and it’s one of the best looking comics he’s ever drawn... you don’t see a much new talent at the level of the old timers because all the good artists go to concepting story boards background and environments etc because that’s where you can actually make a living.
Byrne (She-Hulk), Perez (New Teen Titans/Wonder Woman), Infantino (Dial H for Hero/Spider-Woman) and Bill Black (Fem Force) are the big influences for the comics and videos we create. Both Perez and Black also created regular live-action superheroine videos for a niche audience. Even though Perez is retired from regular comic series, he's still doing variant covers for both DC and Marvel - see the 2020 checklist on his website here: perez.comicbookseries.info/about/george-perez-checklist-2020 We named one of our main superheroines in honor of this great artist: Rosa Perez, aka Poderosa the Puerto Rican superwoman!
It's pretty much the same answers as with other aspects of Pop Culture (with the possible exception of Film), No one's around to pick up the mantle. The thing with the artists mentioned in the video is that they all have distinctive Art styles. You could tell the difference between them by just looking at a cover and/or page. Many of the Artists on various books today are just "aping" one another. I look at Comics today, and I can't even tell you who's drawing what. Another thing is Age. We have to be honest here. Many of the Artists a lot of us grew up with just don't physically have their skill set any longer. And we have to be honest about that. Though I wish these Older Artists would also apprentice talented Younger set who are starving to get into the industry. And Industry in which Older Talent isn't all that respected until they are long gone. And Of Course...MONEY! Companies aren't going to pay these Older Artists who've set a standard. It's cheaper to pay these newer younger artists who may not even last issues on a book.
You shouldn’t burn down the past. I’m a student of history. We can and should learn from the past. With that said, people come and go, even if we don’t want them to.
Why would these legends go back and get paid $400-$600 and spend 10 hours to pencil a page when they can get $1k+ for a pin-up they can finish in half the time?
It's reaching into the great beyond, but it would be great to see Gil Kane do Green Lantern at the top of his form. And I'd like to see Byrne do She-Hulk again.
The Cobra Kai analogy is spot on I think. That explains the business side of it. But for collectors, as much as I love Neal Adams (70's Batman and Green Arrow) his recent work is a hit and miss for me. 2019 Deadman is a good example. His classic characters work (Bats, Gordon, and Deadman) but the human characters seem to have to features that are too big or over inked IMO.
The same reason Jordan isn't playing in the NBA and Wayne Gretzky isn't in the NHL. Father time puts his imprint on us all. Perez acknowledged he slowed down greatly due to visual problems (prior to his passing, rest in peace) as well as Simonson admitted he has slowed down, although he does put out work for IDW. ALL OF US don't do things as well as we used to.
This topic is reason #1 I quit new comics. There is still LOTS of great talent out there, but Marvel and DC don't hire them. I'm not paying for 3rd rate talent at premium prices when there are better options available. One more nail in the industry coffin driven in by the industry itself.
If we are going to stick with the major two companies, then I would love to call one of the "old guard" in to a Black Label or special run outside canon like Tom King does. I would prefer to call in the big names for a pitch session to helm a big cross company event the way Bendis did the Avengers Disassembled, Civil War, Secret Invasion events. But make it an event that actually means something, one that sticks in the canon, and only happens every few years, not annually. Remember when these big events were only in the Annuals?
One thing you only touch on a little, which is true, is that some of these creators like John Byrne have historically been very hard to work with. Another thing is that John Byrne was very critical of the Image guys, some of which, like Jim Lee, who have now become movers and shakers in the Big 2.
I think some of these older artists would be lost in the new continuity and wouldn't want to deal with doing a monthly book and having to deal with new editorial mandates. They could do an OGN or limited series set in the past perhaps. Maybe it's kind of like when Kirby returned to marvel in the mid-70s and seemed out of place with the younger artists of the time. The young artists now might snicker at a Byrne or Simonson work.
I think John makes money off commissions. I enjoyed his work on the Atom, Doom Patrol, and the Demon, but I dont think any of those sold enough to stave off cancellation, unfortunately. Jim Starlin did well on the recent Kickstarter for new Dreadstar material. I would love to see John do something like that. I think Kesel and Grummet would be much more successful on their Section Zero property if they could keep deadlines.
Love Byrne, Perez and Simonson but let's keep it real here: Mike Leeke, Jeff Johnson, Jim Calafiore and far too many others I could name, deserve to be superstars as well and PAID like superstars. I'm all for the old guns getting their money--but there are some piss poor "artists" working today and the industry is propping them up and ignoring people with real talent.
I could see if they went back to the 70's and said it may look a little dated, But to me it sounds like they just want to save money and not pay talent what there worth. Also, Theres still a lot that current day artists could learn from guys like Jack Kirby,John Buscema and others. John Byrne to me still has a style that would still be relevant today. Also, the argument that it wouldnt sell is Bogus. They have collectors still commissioning those same so-called outdated artists for original Art and covers. I still collect Fantastic Four from the Kirby Days and the comic community still loves those stories and art. Also that type of artwork would actually appeal more to younger reader because its dynamic.
Thanks for posting this. Men like these are desperatly needed. I was a life long comic reader but I had to give up....the art is TRASH now with its manga like influences, near dialogue free pages and cartoony looks that in no way resemble the real world like these greats produced. Comics are dead because the current creatives just can't cut it.
I don't see why the old guard writers can't or shouldn't still write. Chris Claremont certainly pops up quite a bit still. I feel like the old guard writers had a better sense of pacing and understanding the dynamics between the immediate story versus the overall story. So many modern writers just seem like they are doing some kind of over the top fan fiction.
Hickman comes to mind with over the top fan fiction. His X-Men are so out of character that if they didn't look like and have the same names as the X-Men I would swear that most of them were Skrulls or anything but the X-Men. Now I seldom speak badly about fan fiction and admit I even write it but yeah you're right.
@@DreamingDarlin yeah, nothing wrong with fan fiction at all. But we've all either read fan fiction or written it knowing it likely doesn't fit the bill. It's all more for fun, fantasy, or personal gratification. Not built for longevity, continuity, or book sales.
For most of the year, I thought IDW would be the publisher that would find a way to work with the most proven storytellers. After listening to "IT'S ALWAYS RAINING IN IDW PUBLISHING" (Thinking Critical), I don't believe IDW will be able to make it. I don't think if IDW managed to put out an Artist Edition of Joe Bennett's art it would save the company. I don't think if IDW managed to put out an Artist Edition of Joe Benitez's art it would help. And I really doubt that even if IDW were willing (or able) to pay for a 5-page story---with a beginning, middle, and end, plus interesting hero(es)---by Art Adams, Neal Adams, Chris Bachalo, Mark Brooks, John Byrne, Jim Califore, Richard Corben, Max Dunbar, Tom Grummett, Clayton Henry, Jim Sherman, Paulo Siqueira, and/or Adam Warren it would save them.
Classic creators are still around but just have slowed down (i guess we were used to them giving us 2-3 books a month during their youthful days!). Simonson did a 2 issue X-factor run (with his wife Louise writing) and his Ragnarok series at IDW, Perez is retired (hopefully living off royalties from Titans and Infinity Gauntlet TV and reprints); Byrne is nuts, Peter David still does a lot of minis for Marvel, Jim Starlin and Mike Grell are reprinting creator owned work on kickstarter (with some new stuff), etc etc. I find DC is better at igving work to classic creators on some of their anniversary and anthology titles. But they can definitely do better.
Well, the theory I've heard told is the big two have gotten very cheap and been flooding the market with cheap talent. They don't want to pay for top talent so top talent makes more money doing their own sketches. I'm not a big fan of Simonson's art, but this knock of Thor title Ragnarok from IDW is really good. I don't know about anything recent from the other two.
Marvel and DC could make a nice chunk of change from ppl like me who aren't buying and haven't bought comics in 15+ years or so. I would go out of my way tomorrow to buy a new Byrne comic every month. And then even pick up an Adams, Sienkiewicz, Miller, Simonson too. But they choose to neglect the audience. screw 'em.
As much as we might hate to admit it, I don't know if these creators would move as much if put on a top tier modern title. The readership has (for better or worse) moved on to other things. Check out the sales of the modern Neal Adams Batman comics or his recent FF book with Waid. I just don't think people are as interested as they say they are.
If the old style wouldn't sell nowadays, why then they keep making omnibuses with old artists..? But they still also doing lots of omnibuses of trash arts mid 90's forward, unfortunately lots of guys buys them. But they still holding back omnibuses for example cap America by Mike Zeck, Hulk by Sal Buscema , Thor by John Buscema.... I for sure stop collecting comics since mid 90's. Just few artists nowadays is great imo. For sure there's very good artists nowadays, then when you get excited about that book with that art... the sequel of that same book has a trash art. I would rather go with a weak story and a great art than a great story and a weak art.
John Byrne could be on any book right now and it would be a top 10 worthy book.
Labrats?
The only problem is that he would be on there for three issues and then get into a fight with the book's editor or writer and quit.
@@johnbenson4672: Perpetuated myth.
@@jdnolin4852: Can't all be winners. Name one comic book talent that had success with each & every comic book that they worked on.
@@palsunstar What myth? If you read his accounts of his collaborations almost everyone of them end "I realized it wasn't going to work out with so and so and I left." If every relationship you're in is bad at some point you need to realize, it's not them, it's you.
Byrne, Simonson and Perez are living legends. I would buy anything they would put out today.
Pick up Ragnarok by Walt. Available on Kindle Unlimited as well. It's great!
Agreed. Perez’s problem for the industry is not his skill or body of work, but that he is known to be very slow (and slower as he aged). The books he worked on in the latter years were known to be late.
I hear a lot of old creators don't like being told how to do comics by editors half their age who don't really know how to do comics.
Can you blame them? Most current editors don’t even know how to sell or manage their teams, plus most seem content in only hiring bloggers and not actual writers.
Yes! True!
Agreed, Kevin. I wish Marvel and DC would clean house of these unsellable writers and artists who are plaguing these characters with stupid politics and get back to true characterization and great art.
As an artist in my 50s, I am starting to hit a physical wall. Arthritis enters the picture. And vision has become an even bigger problem. I can draw but it takes longer and I can’t do it for long periods. Which is frustrating because my style has improved over the years. I’d imagine many of these guys are facing similar problems.
The old-style doesn't sell! It is a known fact! Also, we would like to announce this omnibus and special edition collection of the old style.
A good example of an accomplished writer and artist who doesn't get work is Jerry Ordway. He rose to prominence in the 1980's and early 1990's. Good to see that his Power of Shazam series has been reprinted.
I can't get into contemporary comic books. I was a kid in the 80s, so I guess I was spoiled. John Byrne, Walt Simonson and George Perez were my favourite artists back then, and remain so to this day.
When the 90s came, I read comics less and less, until I stopped reading them altogether.
There's something about modern comics that really turn me off. I don't know what it is, but I find them dull. Maybe I have a nostalgic view, but I've started going back to that golden time in the 80s, the first time seeing the work of Frank Miller and Bill Sienckewicz....
The work of these guys, and many others, still inspire me today. I guess you could say I'm old school.
The thing that you are identifying about modern comics is that the art is photorealistically grim and gritty instead of cartoons, the characters aren't written to model, and there aren't enough superhero fight scenes in superhero comics. Also "writing for the trade" causes superheroes attending meetings instead of churning through bad guys.
I can relate, I read comics for escapism not to be preached to. Early comics were able to deliver moral stories without being all in your face about everything, just my two-pence worth.
Well,take a look at th cover prices back then compared to now.what kids (parents) are gonna she'll out cash for one magazine instead of the many that were available back then.lts a ruined business that greed also inhabits & controls.Not even back issues are safe...Dangit!
Simonson is doing the best work of his career on Ragnarok. I wish that it was better promoted.
Ditto. He's still working, unlike Perez and Byrne who have both retired.
@BavarianRev yes, he writes draws and inks, I think Laura Martin is the colourist. It's published through IDW, a series of miniseries. Highly recommended.
@@Madbandit77 -- I don't believe Byrne's retired... unless you heard something I haven't.
Ragnarok RULES... then again, I'd buy just about anything Simonson would do...
I have to be honest, Simonsons short early 2000s Wonder Woman run I did not think was very strong.
I want Byrne come back and finish the Last Galactus Story
Same
John Byrne is doing some great stuff on his X-Men “fan-fic” that he posts on his website.
Yes!!
For some reason, this made me think about Herb Trimpe in the 90s when he was forced to ape Liefeld on Fantastic Four Unlimited just to continue getting work at Marvel. That was a very sad thing to see.
Herb Trimpe was one of the best Hulk artist along with Kirby and Sal Buscema
I've heard that it was his decision to go that route. regardless, it wasn't a good move. I noticed it right off the bat, and was shocked at his new work. I am to this day, still in awe at some of his old work from 1968-1969.
@@chazkhaira4690 One of my favorite Hulk artists.
I didn't know that but it explains why I thought he was a horrible artist back then.
Trimpe's story was tragic. I remember that FFU book and it was heartbreaking. After all his years at Marvel, those cunts fired him via a Fed Ex'd letter. Absolutely disgraceful.
Age can diminish a person's talents. George Perez's worsening eyesight was the reason he retired.
But I wonder about Jerry Ordway, Mike Zeck, J.L Garcia-Lopez, Rags Morales, Eduardo Barreto, Paul Gulacy... do they still have what it takes?
Are guys like Jim Starlin, Art Adams, Alan Davis and Michael Golden retired or are they just expensive for comic companies?
Hell, I'd even like to see Keith Pollard, Alan Saviuk or Mike Vosburg do something.
Are Sal Buscema, Mike Ploog and Jim Mooney still with us?
Oops, I meant Alex Saviuk.
But I could go on and on: Rudy Nebres, Rico Rival, Steve Lightle... and that's just the artists.
I got to see walt at nycc. But I got to talk to his better half "weezie" for like a half hour. It was awesome. I talked to her about her galactus mini series. I loved it, she said marvel editorial did not let her do what she wanted. Sad! Her idea was to make the silver surfer take over galactus's role.
That would have been a great story. I'm sorry we haven't seen it.
Yeah, George Perez on New Teen Titans was the best.
Great: Now I can't get the Peter,Paul & Mary song out of my head! "Where have all the big names gone? Long time passing...."
George Perez had to stop because of diabetes. Its not just them, where are the big names from the 90s or all the people discovered by Image, Dark Horse, etc. that were one hit wonders.
I think there’s more nuances to why some of the old greats are not around. Some have retired, some are too expensive, some don’t want that old style, and maybe there’s other reasons I don’t know about. But those who still want to be probably can still produce a great comic.
Perez is diabetic & has sited diminished eyesight as his reason for retiring. Byrne `s last work I saw was on Superman years ago & wasn`t up to the old days. Simonson is still working & hasn`t lost a step. In fact , he may be better than ever. I would still love for the first two to comeback though.
The last Byrne work I saw was his most recent Star Trek series for IDW, but that was him doing photo comics with stills from the TV show. Fun stuff, but not really his usual fare.
Byrne's new X-Men "fan" comic book is the best thing he's done in a long time
Yeah, Perez has had many health issues for the past couple decades. I agree with you that Byrne's last DC work as well as his IDW material is ok but many levels below what he turned out in the 70s & 80s, but I guess that's understandable given his age. I feel the same about Simonson's art. His writing is as strong as it's ever been, but I don't think his art is quiet as sharp, IMO... But of course, would rather look at aging Simonson or Byrne art than current crap by the likes of Pepe Larraz or Daniel Acuna.
Isn't the comicbook collecting industry based on "old" stuff? Why would the company ignore a segment that they could profit from? The world is a strange place.
Put Byrne on an X-men title and watch sales skyrocket
Check out his on going Elsewhen XMen (just Google it)
I would love to see Byrne coming back on She-Hulk Wouldn't that be a great promo for an upcoming TV-series?
I've liked George Perez since COIE. I'd buy anything he drew.
u aint gonna see byrne back at marvel unless quesada leaves
100 % agree
Google “John Byrne X Men Elsewhen” and enjoy!
I have been gravitating more to the older pre-90s art styles. I am in the minority but I HATE the Jim Lee, Joe Madureira and Rob Liefeld "extreme" styles. They strain my eyesight. 90s comics are so hideous for me to look at, it's why reading AoA is such a chore. John Byrne is one of my favorite older artists, because of how solid and well-proportioned his characters' anatomy is.
Haha - me too! While I enjoyed Authority and Stormwatch I never cared for that sort of art/style in Marvel or DC. I don't think Liefeld has ever worked on a comic that I've enjoyed I simply find his work ugly and unappealing.
I'm very much in agreement with you on this.
Man, you did it again. Truly a blast from the past.
I used to mock my friend for buying Teen Titans - at the risk of sounding PC, I found the orange lady cheesecake a bit much. But the man could draw.
I remember reading the Simonson Thor...from the beginning, the issue where Beta's ship blasts Thor. I didn't really read comic news back then, didn't know anything about upcoming projects or whatever. I followed the Avengers back then, but I wasn't a Thor fan. I just happened to pick the book up, and I was blown out of my socks by the story and the art. And the signature. And the lettering...I became a Thor fan.
I have many many Byrne FF4 splash pages printed on the back of my brain. Galactus: "I...am...dying."
Any of these guys could do successful Indiegogo or Kickstarter campaigns. They would have to own the rights to all concepts and characters, of course. Jim Starlin is about to ship on his "Dreadstar Returns" graphic novel via Kickstarter.
Todd McFarlane talked about this briefly in. one of his Spawn videos where he mentioned one motivation for branching off into toys was he didn't want all his eggs in one basket just in case his art career was "washed up", or perceived as such. Publisher Jim Lee talked about the importance of "...keeping your art current!" And of course, there is the infamous story of how once Carmine Infantino came to power at DC in the 60s, he embarked on an "Out with the old, in with the new" campaign where they moved torward relatively more "realistic" stories and artwork to compete with Marvel! It led to many new faces and the marginalization or departure of industry veterans!
Byrne, Perez, Simonson and others did comics for the PARENTS of today's fans and there's no escaping this reality!
My hat is off to John Romita Jr, who is still doing a monthly book. He's one of the greats from the 70's-80's. I'm not sure if he was fired from Marvel or left by choice, but that move had to be hugely stressful for him.
Your gripe about people trying to discard old art styles and the art style of each time period following trends mostly is all too familiar to me in video games. The time window was pretty much the same, too, despite comics being a much older industry: second half of the 90s, and to some extent the first half, with digitized sprites and full-motion video games. Top-of-the-line video game companies also tend to let go of talent that is getting too established, but for (what I believe are) largely different reasons: Sometimes the old talent is questioning the importance of in-game diversity initiatives, other times they're prioritizing fun over gritty "true art," other times they're pushing back against the latest monetization scheme, other times they're prioritizing old fans over some new demographic the studio wants to attract. And in both comics and video games, Japan has been largely immune to this trend.
Japan went through similar periods. Its just because of their form polite social of courtesy that disgruntled feelings, hot takes, and any other opinions are viewed as bringing disharmony publicly. The Japanese don't like drama or grievances to be aired publicly.
But the fans online in Japan are vicious with their criticism of any and everything. Japan has had worse bullying and cyber bulling issues longer than we have. And they got the suicide rates to back that up.
@@Damackism Japanese entertainment does go through trends (angry anime in the late 80s and early 90s, moe style today) but those trends aren't as drastic as trends in Western entertainment and more works buck those trends, and I'm pretty sure Japan always has a cultural respect for established, proven talent.
@@theinvisibleskulk4563 I agree with you up to a certain extent. They don't seem as drastic because they are not publicly verbally criticised as much as when things change drastically here. But if you go on any online msg board in various anime or manga fandoms the criticism and insults are pretty vicious.Manga Creators and Anime Directors have actually ended up in hospital emergency rooms in Japan. Due to stress and depression.
What keeps the anime and manga companies and creators from destroying the industry. Is the fact it is a very hardcore meritocracy based industry. Meaning you have to earn your spot or job. And maintain your spot of popularity and sells numbers in order to continue having your work published.
This used to apply to the American comic book industry up until the last 5 yrs.
I think you nailed what I did not like about 90's comics - it's that they all looked the same.
As far as what big names I would like to see return to comics - Michael Golden, Mike Zeck, and David Mazuchelli.
Part of it is the publishers are farming art out to foreign artists who will work for lower page rates.
At least Chris Claremont is making a comeback in 2021, and Peter David is still active
Well (from afar): Byrne is a Republican. Perez got taken for granted and his partner in crime (Denny) for most cons was deteriorating so there was no enjoyment around comics generally. Simonson is white and (had) red hair. Also they have talent - yep, that is why they can't get regular gigs - because they are too much a threat at overachieving compared to their fellow creators, embarrassing them in the process (Something they still think we don't know or notice as readers LOL)
...Denny?
Byrne is a Republican? I knew I liked that guy.
Almost no modern comic book artists work really stands out like they did in the 90’s and earlier for the most part it all looks the same, back in those days you could identify an artist’s style by the way they drew faces and poses and the like.
We need less hacks like Scott Snyder or Tom King.
Simonson's response: LOL. Ah, it's a tough business. 😉
John Byrne was my favorite artist back in the day. His style made an impact and I still see his influence in my art even to this day. He`s made some enemies in the business so maybe it`s not surprising he`s not getting any work at Marvel or DC...he`s effectively blackballed. He makes a ton of money off commissions. Some of the pieces on his website are classic Byrne and collectors pay big bucks for them.
JB used to make money off commissions. He stopped doing commissions quite awhile ago.
I'm enjoying his "run" on X-Men Elsewhen. 17 issues in so far. Great stuff.
@@palsunstar I didn't know Byrne stopped doing commissions. It was one of the things on my bucket list that I would get my hands on a Byrne piece. Always thought I could just get him to do a commission for me at some point as a "plan B". I'm enjoying Elsewhen as well. Never thought I'd see the day when I'd see Byrne doing X-Men again. Seems like Byrne is "re-inventing" himself in this series....doesn't have a lot of his usual "stock" poses and tropes. Thanks for the reply!
Byrne back on FF? Hell yeah. It probably will never happen though. I would love to read new Spidey stories by Roger Stern. With him taking over Amazing Spider-Man for a long period of time. But that will probably never happen either. So glad I still have the old stuff to read.
ROGER STERN!! YES!! I'll take a serving of David Michelinie and Bob Layton on Iron Man to go with that...
@@chuckgibson3973 That was a great team as well.
John Byrne on the Avengers? Yes, please! That would be great. I'd pay double the price to read that. I also love Walt Simonson's Ragnarok. Because Walt is doing a lot of the work himself, it ships every other month (or so), and is well worth the wait. If you like his style, it is a fantastic book. Perez is still doing the occasional cover. It would be great if they'd get him to do an OGN or annual or something once a year.
i hate to say this but Byrne on Avengers you are right. I'd pay double.
Where's Don McLean when you need him? He could pen you the song, "Bye, bye, Mr. Comic Book Guy"
Joe Staton, though not on the level of the names mentioned, had a long run at DC. He is best known for his run on Green Lantern. Also was mentioned in the credits of this years Birds of Prey movie as one of the creators of their version of the Huntress. He has stayed busy as the every day artist on the Dick Tracy comic strip so he's staying busy just not in comic BOOK industry.
Staton was also the artist for much of the Celestial Madonna arc on Avengers (another pairing with Steve Englehart).
Staton is one of my faves. Underrated talent. Perfect style for his era.
Joe Staton was hit or miss for me. It seemed to depend on the inker.
I was a fan of Staton since "E-MAN" at CHARTLON. His MARVEL inking chores (especially with Sal Buscema) were hit or miss. But his DC "JSA" work was CLASSIC!!! As was The Huntress stuff.
Totally agree! A John Byrne and/or George Perez series would be awesome. I wonder what they would do with Krakoa? But I would also really love a Steve Rude series, either xmen or avengers--or heck, just about anything!!!! Whatever happened to that dude?
I always thought it was the money angle, didn't know that there was a bias against the old stuff (which to me just seems like a few years ago). Back in the 80s adding a big name to a book could increase sales by lets say 20%. On a book that was already selling 200K that's an extra 40K sales, more than enough to cover the cost of the talent. But now comics sell 50K and an extra 10K sales probably won't cover the cost. I might be wrong due to the inflated cover prices though.
There should always be room for both artists old and new to coexist. It's almost like Hollywood: you have your younger actors who are doing well but you also still have your Al Pacinos, Robert DeNiros, Morgan Freemans, etc. in prominent roles. I grew up on guys like Simonson, Byrne, McFarlane, Lee, Liefeld, George Perez, Art Adams (my all time favorite), etc. and still love seeing work from them. There's always room for the legendary artists whether it's with Marvel, DC, or an indy company. As long as that artist is physically able to do it and still has the desire to do it then I say keep it coming (speaking as a fellow artist also).
I'd buy anything they put out with Byrne on it right now. Literally anything.
Also the karate kid analogy was solid
Back in the 80s, Byrne, Perez and Simonson were the hot names of the day.. Kirby and Ditko, though well on their way to their legendary status, were not. Times change, tastes change.
Hi, Perch, been watching all your stuff lately, and you brought a topic near and dear to me. I grew up reading comics by Byrne, Frank Miller, Simonson, Claremont, Stern, Neal Adams, Chaykin and so on. Therefore, I would welcome all of these guys back. Some of these guys are still doing stuff, some aren't.
I certainly supported it.
There are exceptions, of course, I know there were some ageism issues some time ago, when Tom Lyle and Jerry Ordway left Marvel and DC respectively due to not getting work. But we have to have in mind Big 2 comics are shrinking, and there's not much room for everyone.
As for Byrne, much like I am still a fan, I think the ship has sailed... he was not that interesting back in the late 90's.
Thanks for the topic and have a nice day!
Movie visualisation pays better.
@Lierson: "As for Byrne, much like I am still a fan, I think the ship has sailed... he was not that interesting back in the late 90's."
That's a matter of opinion...
In the late '90's he had a very entertaining run on Wonder Woman (1995-1998; 36 issues, plus 2 annuals & a novel), 25 issues of Jack Kirby's Fourth World (1996-1998) I'm including the 4 issues of New Gods & Darkseid one-shot that JB worked on).
Then he & Howard Mackie worked together on Spider-Man & while there were a few naysayers here & there, I enjoyed it all (Spider-Man: Chapter One, Amazing Spider-Man, Peter Parker & a quirky new Spider-Woman). This brought into the year 2000.
Then we had Marvel: The Lost Generation (with Roger Stern), X-Men: The Hidden Years (which actually started in 1999), Batman & Superman: Generations (3 scoops!), his short-lived run with Lab Rats (such potential), His JLA run with Chris Claremont, Doom Patrol, & Blood of the Demon.
Then JB moved to work at IDW on some cool stuff before finally retiring.
There were ups & downs, but even JB's downs are more fun reads than most of today's "talents" are cobbling together.
I’m 56 and these creators were my guys. I only buy trade paperback collections of storylines from 40 or more years ago. Comics aren’t comics anymore. Mutants are more powerful than gods. Mutants are more common than humans. The only wolverine I recognize being like Len Wein’s wolverine is Hugh Jackman’s. The took a feisty short bad ass and turned him into an indestructible Superman who knows every martial arts who can heal back from being vaporize. Ridiculous.
John Byrne, Walt Simonson and a host of other 80’s creators should head over to Image and unleash their creativity on comicdom!
This is one of those situations where several different factors come together. First a lot of classic comic artist were not classically trained artist. So those individual quirks really stood out and made for phenomenal personal styles. Second the industry was small so artist had time to grow and establish fan bases. By the time the 90's hit you started to see classically trained artist enter the industry. With such a similar base editors started choosing artist with styles that mimicked a popular artist. It's not that old styles don't sale but some older untrained artist stick out. The level of sophistication has grown. Example Kirby's imagery is so iconic people still mimic the style today. The hyper realism of Bryan Hitch is heavily influenced by George Perez. Finally we have money companies will higher over seas talent at lower page rates. Young guns new talent show case are companies telling you who to like based on the popularity of the characters they draw as apposed to an earned fan base. Profits, greed and hubris are killing the industry. It's like bohemian culture. We will never get another Soho New York or 60's San Fransisco because developers gentrify them before the can grow. At one point in history artist lived in abandoned warehouse loft space because it was cheep they could afford it. Now it's open concept urban living and no one can afford it. The comic industry commodified unique and quirky as styles now no one stands out or is given a chance to grow and we are the poorer for it.
Kind of breaks my heart to watch this video with GP gone. Hope he got to do all the work he wanted to at the end.
Brilliant question 👏🏾
John Byrne would be very welcome at Marvel or DC.
Though I do hear and read that he has some issues with Marvel.
Byrne did a fantastic job on Superman, he really got the character.
They are mostly involved in their own projects, not always with the big companies.
It's because of all this PC nonsense! The older generation doesn't go for that INSANITY! The classics are still that, CLASSIC! They should be the first hired!
What’s Jim Starlin up to these days? His Thanos graphic novels released over the last few years were fun. He didn’t draw them all but he wrote them all. Hope he’s doing ok.
Dreadstar is coming!
Thanks for the replies. As much as I enjoy Starlin’s work, I’ve never read Dreadstar. I need to fix that.
John Byrne's website is now restricted. I used to be a fan of his.
And some of these new 'artists' ought to take lessons from the 'Masters' on how to draw. Because even if the story is not good, having great art can compensate. Maybe they should obtain copies of the classic 'How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way'.
Would love to see John Byrne, George Perez, and Walt Simonson back. Then again, I'd like to see Jim Lee return to art chores, too. Maybe HE could rescue his old WildStorm creations from DC since they obviously don't know what to do with them.
The companies are not what they were twenty years or more ago. They were willing to try wilder stuff. Now it's all about market valuations.
Where have they gone? They've AGED OUT! They're all grandpappies now! But seriously, those that still have an interest in the industry probably don't much care for most of the current editorial agendas. Some like Perez, Miller and Simonson pop up to do variant covers here and there. I know Perez has had health issues in the past that prevented him from doing regular monthly work. And I don't imagine that the young readers and collectors care much for them with the likes of J. Scott Campbell, Peach Momoko, Humberto Ramos, Daniel Acuna, Pepe Larraz and such... And some, like Byrne, do not have the magic touch they had decades ago. Byrne's last stint at DC, shortly before they launched NEW 52 was adequate, but nothing that dynamically jumped off the page. Even Simonson's fill-in issues on the Avengers about 5yrs back could not compare to his art on FF or X-Factor or Orion, let alone Thor. Byrne's IDW Publishing work outside of Marvel and DC is, again, standard but certainly not breathtaking. I would LOVE to see some of these guys do regular gigs in comics again, but none of their recent stuff is anywhere near as potent as what they turned out decades ago. And I don't think their art styles would be truly appreciated today. It's like when Kirby returned to Marvel in the mid 70s. Many in the industry ran him ragged, basically shi**ing all over his art, saying it was too dated and awkward-looking, unrealistic and not fresh enough.
George Perez is retired John Bryne is an individual case with so many falling outs and rumored returns I’ve lost track... Walt Simonson is still making Ragnorok and it’s one of the best looking comics he’s ever drawn... you don’t see a much new talent at the level of the old timers because all the good artists go to concepting story boards background and environments etc because that’s where you can actually make a living.
Michael Turner (RIP) and Ed Benes are my fav artists that I wish would return, though we know one of them can't.
Byrne (She-Hulk), Perez (New Teen Titans/Wonder Woman), Infantino (Dial H for Hero/Spider-Woman) and Bill Black (Fem Force) are the big influences for the comics and videos we create. Both Perez and Black also created regular live-action superheroine videos for a niche audience. Even though Perez is retired from regular comic series, he's still doing variant covers for both DC and Marvel - see the 2020 checklist on his website here: perez.comicbookseries.info/about/george-perez-checklist-2020 We named one of our main superheroines in honor of this great artist: Rosa Perez, aka Poderosa the Puerto Rican superwoman!
It's pretty much the same answers as with other aspects of Pop Culture (with the possible exception of Film),
No one's around to pick up the mantle.
The thing with the artists mentioned in the video is that they all have distinctive Art styles. You could tell the difference between them by just looking at a cover and/or page.
Many of the Artists on various books today are just "aping" one another. I look at Comics today, and I can't even tell you who's drawing what.
Another thing is Age.
We have to be honest here. Many of the Artists a lot of us grew up with just don't physically have their skill set any longer.
And we have to be honest about that. Though I wish these Older Artists would also apprentice talented Younger set who are starving to get into the industry.
And Industry in which Older Talent isn't all that respected until they are long gone.
And Of Course...MONEY!
Companies aren't going to pay these Older Artists who've set a standard.
It's cheaper to pay these newer younger artists who may not even last issues on a book.
You shouldn’t burn down the past. I’m a student of history. We can and should learn from the past. With that said, people come and go, even if we don’t want them to.
Please go back in time and resurrect the comics industry. The current editors and writers are far removed in talent from the old guard.
I think that the turn towards cinema and movies have taken away the joy of comics
Alan Davis still does the occasional project, he's done recently some OGN Thanks books.
Why would these legends go back and get paid $400-$600 and spend 10 hours to pencil a page when they can get $1k+ for a pin-up they can finish in half the time?
I'd like to see Mike Zeck back at it...
It's reaching into the great beyond, but it would be great to see Gil Kane do Green Lantern at the top of his form. And I'd like to see Byrne do She-Hulk again.
The Cobra Kai analogy is spot on I think. That explains the business side of it. But for collectors, as much as I love Neal Adams (70's Batman and Green Arrow) his recent work is a hit and miss for me. 2019 Deadman is a good example. His classic characters work (Bats, Gordon, and Deadman) but the human characters seem to have to features that are too big or over inked IMO.
Simonson definitely, but also Ron Lim.
It's like when ignorant folk say they don't want to get into classic television or cinema because "it looks old."
The same reason Jordan isn't playing in the NBA and Wayne Gretzky isn't in the NHL. Father time puts his imprint on us all. Perez acknowledged he slowed down greatly due to visual problems (prior to his passing, rest in peace) as well as Simonson admitted he has slowed down, although he does put out work for IDW. ALL OF US don't do things as well as we used to.
This topic is reason #1 I quit new comics. There is still LOTS of great talent out there, but Marvel and DC don't hire them. I'm not paying for 3rd rate talent at premium prices when there are better options available.
One more nail in the industry coffin driven in by the industry itself.
If we are going to stick with the major two companies, then I would love to call one of the "old guard" in to a Black Label or special run outside canon like Tom King does. I would prefer to call in the big names for a pitch session to helm a big cross company event the way Bendis did the Avengers Disassembled, Civil War, Secret Invasion events. But make it an event that actually means something, one that sticks in the canon, and only happens every few years, not annually.
Remember when these big events were only in the Annuals?
John Byrne or Walt Simonson back on FF are the only creators that would excite me more than putting Zdarsky on it.
I hate that we won’t get any more Duck comics from Don Rosa.
His eyesight was a factor, but Disney treated him badly.
Walt Simonson is writing Ragnarök about a draugr Thor.
That was in the video. :)
The big two need all the help they can get! I would behoove them to tap the old guard and have them create some new stories.
One thing you only touch on a little, which is true, is that some of these creators like John Byrne have historically been very hard to work with. Another thing is that John Byrne was very critical of the Image guys, some of which, like Jim Lee, who have now become movers and shakers in the Big 2.
Theres a bunch of different styles right now imo. Juan Ferreyra one of the most underrated
A comic creators career is short. Conventions help pay the bills. but even that thins out.
I think some of these older artists would be lost in the new continuity and wouldn't want to deal with doing a monthly book and having to deal with new editorial mandates. They could do an OGN or limited series set in the past perhaps. Maybe it's kind of like when Kirby returned to marvel in the mid-70s and seemed out of place with the younger artists of the time. The young artists now might snicker at a Byrne or Simonson work.
George was unwell at the time and Brett Booth was unreliable (or "unable to commit" on E consistent basis just as it was with him in the 90s)
I think John makes money off commissions. I enjoyed his work on the Atom, Doom Patrol, and the Demon, but I dont think any of those sold enough to stave off cancellation, unfortunately. Jim Starlin did well on the recent Kickstarter for new Dreadstar material. I would love to see John do something like that.
I think Kesel and Grummet would be much more successful on their Section Zero property if they could keep deadlines.
Love Byrne, Perez and Simonson but let's keep it real here: Mike Leeke, Jeff Johnson, Jim Calafiore and far too many others I could name, deserve to be superstars as well and PAID like superstars. I'm all for the old guns getting their money--but there are some piss poor "artists" working today and the industry is propping them up and ignoring people with real talent.
I could see if they went back to the 70's and said it may look a little dated, But to me it sounds like they just want to save money and not pay talent what there worth. Also, Theres still a lot that current day artists could learn from guys like Jack Kirby,John Buscema and others. John Byrne to me still has a style that would still be relevant today. Also, the argument that it wouldnt sell is Bogus. They have collectors still commissioning those same so-called outdated artists for original Art and covers. I still collect Fantastic Four from the Kirby Days and the comic community still loves those stories and art. Also that type of artwork would actually appeal more to younger reader because its dynamic.
Maybe I missed it in your talk, but George Perez has had to retire from drawing due to serious eyesight issues.
Thanks for posting this. Men like these are desperatly needed. I was a life long comic reader but I had to give up....the art is TRASH now with its manga like influences, near dialogue free pages and cartoony looks that in no way resemble the real world like these greats produced. Comics are dead because the current creatives just can't cut it.
I don't see why the old guard writers can't or shouldn't still write. Chris Claremont certainly pops up quite a bit still. I feel like the old guard writers had a better sense of pacing and understanding the dynamics between the immediate story versus the overall story. So many modern writers just seem like they are doing some kind of over the top fan fiction.
Hickman comes to mind with over the top fan fiction. His X-Men are so out of character that if they didn't look like and have the same names as the X-Men I would swear that most of them were Skrulls or anything but the X-Men. Now I seldom speak badly about fan fiction and admit I even write it but yeah you're right.
@@DreamingDarlin yeah, nothing wrong with fan fiction at all. But we've all either read fan fiction or written it knowing it likely doesn't fit the bill. It's all more for fun, fantasy, or personal gratification. Not built for longevity, continuity, or book sales.
You know you're getting old when you hear people saying the 90's style is too dated.
For most of the year, I thought IDW would be the publisher that would find a way to work with the most proven storytellers. After listening to "IT'S ALWAYS RAINING IN IDW PUBLISHING" (Thinking Critical), I don't believe IDW will be able to make it.
I don't think if IDW managed to put out an Artist Edition of Joe Bennett's art it would save the company. I don't think if IDW managed to put out an Artist Edition of Joe Benitez's art it would help.
And I really doubt that even if IDW were willing (or able) to pay for a 5-page story---with a beginning, middle, and end, plus interesting hero(es)---by Art Adams, Neal Adams, Chris Bachalo, Mark Brooks, John Byrne, Jim Califore, Richard Corben, Max Dunbar, Tom Grummett, Clayton Henry, Jim Sherman, Paulo Siqueira, and/or Adam Warren it would save them.
Classic creators are still around but just have slowed down (i guess we were used to them giving us 2-3 books a month during their youthful days!). Simonson did a 2 issue X-factor run (with his wife Louise writing) and his Ragnarok series at IDW, Perez is retired (hopefully living off royalties from Titans and Infinity Gauntlet TV and reprints); Byrne is nuts, Peter David still does a lot of minis for Marvel, Jim Starlin and Mike Grell are reprinting creator owned work on kickstarter (with some new stuff), etc etc. I find DC is better at igving work to classic creators on some of their anniversary and anthology titles. But they can definitely do better.
Well, the theory I've heard told is the big two have gotten very cheap and been flooding the market with cheap talent. They don't want to pay for top talent so top talent makes more money doing their own sketches.
I'm not a big fan of Simonson's art, but this knock of Thor title Ragnarok from IDW is really good. I don't know about anything recent from the other two.
Marvel and DC could make a nice chunk of change from ppl like me who aren't buying and haven't bought comics in 15+ years or so. I would go out of my way tomorrow to buy a new Byrne comic every month. And then even pick up an Adams, Sienkiewicz, Miller, Simonson too. But they choose to neglect the audience. screw 'em.
What happened to Barry Smith?
As much as we might hate to admit it, I don't know if these creators would move as much if put on a top tier modern title. The readership has (for better or worse) moved on to other things. Check out the sales of the modern Neal Adams Batman comics or his recent FF book with Waid. I just don't think people are as interested as they say they are.
If the old style wouldn't sell nowadays, why then they keep making omnibuses with old artists..?
But they still also doing lots of omnibuses of trash arts mid 90's forward, unfortunately lots of guys buys them.
But they still holding back omnibuses for example cap America by Mike Zeck, Hulk by Sal Buscema , Thor by John Buscema....
I for sure stop collecting comics since mid 90's. Just few artists nowadays is great imo.
For sure there's very good artists nowadays, then when you get excited about that book with that art... the sequel of that same book has a trash art.
I would rather go with a weak story and a great art than a great story and a weak art.