Pretty Privilege

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  • Опубліковано 27 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 76

  • @neutralmultiverse8589
    @neutralmultiverse8589 8 місяців тому +2

    I love this, this was such a beautiful talk.. i love how you said if you are not traditionally attractive, then practice dignity. I LOVE that!

  • @Uranianth
    @Uranianth 2 роки тому +8

    theres nothing more beautiful than humility, honesty and self-awareness. sadly, many people(of all orientations) don't acknowledge this.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому +1

      Amen brother 🙏

    • @trentonhuntley9966
      @trentonhuntley9966 Рік тому +1

      As gay men we don’t get to court early in our lives. So we don’t have the awareness that it takes more than physicality to establish bonds, nor do we expect intimacy and acceptance.

  • @SouthParkMack
    @SouthParkMack Рік тому

    Thanks guys. I am married to a man who I’ve been with for 33 years. I am a 70 year old man and feel better about myself than ever before. Looking back at my life journey as a gay black man in a white dominated gay culture, I can relate to so much of what you talked about, especially about developing internal worthiness. This discussion was powerful!!!!

  • @adamcohen7642
    @adamcohen7642 Рік тому +4

    I never considered myself to be vain or appearance-conscious until I began to enter gay spaces. It was obvious almost immediately that persons deemed more traditionally physically attractive were able to parlay that into popularity, dates, and relationships in ways that average Joes simply can't. I've never picked up any cues of desirability, and the only people who seem to reach out to me online are obvious scammers, people with whom I have zero chance of meeting in real life, or those who if they took five seconds to read my profile would be able to infer we are completely incompatible. At my age, it is beyond dispiriting.

    • @GayMenGoingDeeper
      @GayMenGoingDeeper  Рік тому

      Thank you for sharing your experience with us Adam. This community can be so challenging to navigate and we hope this changes with the content we are creating for gay men

  • @anthonycloyd3922
    @anthonycloyd3922 2 роки тому +20

    I think race is at the core of pretty privilege. This is an intersection I’ve never thought of so thank you for this discussion ! What western society considers traditionally attractive is based on European beauty as antithesis to blackness. There is a long, studied history of this. Blackness is seen as the worst and whiteness as the best. Everyone falls along this imaginary spectrum somewhere. So traditionally, the closer to whiteness you are, the more attractive you are considered. Now, we can add things like body type, phenotype, hair texture, skin tone, height, etc; all of which contribute to our perceived placement on this spectrum. This is where intersectionality really makes sense. In western society, a white, tall, cisgendered, heterosexual, Christian, able-bodied, neuro-typical, muscular, male, born-citizen has the MOST privilege. Many white gay men possess the majority of these privileges both within the gay community and without. Therefore, I think “pretty privilege” can’t be separated from its racial nucleus. Thanks so much for this food for thought!

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому +3

      Yup I agree with you on most parts here. However I wouldn’t say it’s the nucleus but rather a large aspect of how people define attractiveness as they relate it to race. Within a group of white men there is still pretty privilege based on who is the most and least attractive in that group. This is why o don’t think it’s at the core but rather another dynamic aspect of pretty privilege.
      I also think people have preferences based on what races they are attracted to. I do think it’s extremely important to also unpack unconscious biases regarding race and move away from Eurocentric definitions of what is attractive.
      Thanks for sharing your insights

    • @anthonycloyd3922
      @anthonycloyd3922 2 роки тому +3

      @@mattlandsiedel Thank you for this perspective. Totally hear you. I guess, I have a hard time separating it from race because within the black community, “pretty,” is often and historically viewed as one’s proximity to whiteness. If you’re lighter skinned, straighter nose, colored eyes or straighter hair, you are considered “pretty.” Even possessing one or two of these traits makes you more “attractive.” Blackness has only existed as antithetical to whiteness so I don’t know that this view has ever been different in the culture I identify with. Blackness was created during colonialism. Before colonialism, Africans identified with their specific tribes. Also, Europeans identified with their specific cultures: French, English, Spanish, etc.
      So, my culture, black culture, created by racist Europeans as the opposite of white culture, which was also created by racist Europeans, has always held that blackness by its very nature is unattractive. Unfortunately, black culture internalized that and we are still fighting to break that false belief about ourselves.
      This colorism is a racist holdover from European colonialism and slavery. Its the same colorism for most nonwhite cultures.
      Maybe within whiteness there are people who don’t quite fit what whiteness views as most attractive but it still underscores how everyone is trying to appeal to what whiteness considers to be attractive. It seems like an unfair, rarely attainable standard for everyone. Even white people.

    • @PoorDog69
      @PoorDog69 Рік тому

      Sounds like you have a big fucking excuse to not possess fitness into your life. Have fun with your sad life.

  • @TruthQuest4700
    @TruthQuest4700 Рік тому +1

    This discussion resonates with me so much! I have similar experiences of sexual objectification to discovering I'm demisexual and sapiosexual. Because of that, it is challenging to connect with most people who are "at the party" for other reasons and it often feels very isolating.
    When it comes to authentic love, tears of joy don't lie.

  • @4theloveofAJ2023
    @4theloveofAJ2023 2 роки тому +3

    I started following my volumetric movement at the gym. Weight x sets x reps = lbs moved per exercise. Add them all up and that's what you moved at the gym. I tracked it for five months. I went from 159,000lbs to 1,111,000lbs moved in a week. My body has transformed from good to ripped. What has this done for me? Nothing. I have guys breaking their necks to get a look at me shirtless at the bar... but no one talks to me. I have friends, but only people who I walk up to and say hi... not who grabs me and pulls me in.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому

      I fully relate to this. When I was ripped I was perceived as more a threat to guys than approachable. I much more prefer being approachable

  • @missricka6801
    @missricka6801 2 роки тому +2

    Matt and Andre-Lee, Thank you for this conversation. I personally found it to be informative and validating and you both brought up points that I can apply in my own journey as a transwoman. While there are many differences between the issues of gay men and transwomen pretty privilege is one we both struggle with, though obviously the standards we measure ourselves against are gender opposites. Matt, you said two things that stood out to me especially. One being that there is an energetic attractiveness that can transcend physical beauty. I think for me as a woman in terms of how I view myself and other women whether trans or cis, it is that quality of being vivacious, something I equate with being able to radiate a certain energetic frequency and without self-consciousness. A term from the French which I think is very much related is having a certain jene sais quois. My question for both Matt and Andre is whether there is a counterpart for men (gay and straight.) The other thing you said that stood out for me Matt had to do with tuning into to our other senses. What came to mind is that for me one of the things I find the most attractive about certain men is the sound of their voice. Trying to analyze what this might be for me is one, they almost always speak using a lower range but equally important is that the sound of their voice evokes gentleness and warmth.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому

      I love how much thought you put into this. I agree fully about the sound of a man’s voice. It’s so sexy when a guy has a deep and sultry voice.

  • @gw6482
    @gw6482 2 роки тому +6

    I am very conflicted about this topic. I admire Matt´s perspective and experience, going beyond his appearance and other people´s opinion, I even dare to say I am jealous. I am aware that, regarding Western beauty standards, I check a handfull of boxes. I am also aware that I am not as tall, muscular or young as I would like to be, I would like to have a beard, and there are A LOT of body parts I´d change in a heartbeat if I could. So, I do not think that I have been significantly privileged, I think I turn a few heads occasionally, but definitely not as many as I would like sometimes. I am conflicted because sometimes I don´t care one bit what other people think about me, other times it´s all I can think about. And for conventionally attractive people it can be easy sometimes because, even when they try not to work on their image, when you win the genetic lottery, you could wear old, dirty, baggy clothes, have shaggy hair and beard, and still be considered attractive. So, even though sometimes some of us want to not care about it, getting social advantages is still something a lot of us want and need, and we do our best to get those. So maybe I cannot get taller or grow a beard, but if I can kill myself at the gym and get skin products to get a bit ahead socially, I cannot help doing it because I do not want to be discriminated. Anyway, sorry for letting all this out. Thanks for this, I will try to get inspired by this (which is very admirable and soothing) and keep working on not caring about others and accepting and loving who I am as I am.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому

      Thanks for sharing all this Gabe. I completely relate to you

  • @Preppie-thirty
    @Preppie-thirty Рік тому +1

    Great podcast, what people don't realize is that many attractive people are very insecure, and look for validation to make themselves feel better, instead of working on the core problem.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel Рік тому +1

      Couldn’t agree more and I speak to this in the episode from personal experience

  • @donyj8671
    @donyj8671 2 роки тому +5

    This was an amazing message and blessing. Thank you Matt and Andre!!

  • @ricardosoca7380
    @ricardosoca7380 2 роки тому +2

    This episode has got to be up there as one of the best ever. Great job you guys!!!

  • @richardkarnes5286
    @richardkarnes5286 2 роки тому +3

    You guys are wonderful. Andre, this is the first of these videos in which I have seen you. And I know what you like to hear, Andre. This is just a quick, off-the-cuff thing to say and is not to be meant as some sort of come-on, but here goes: Andre, I love you! I say this because I appreciate what you have shared with us. Thank you!

  • @GarethBretherton
    @GarethBretherton 2 роки тому +3

    Great topic with super interesting views! As an artist and a perfectionist, I've always found it difficult to look at myself in the mirror or in pictures and be ok with what I'm seeing. I've always wished that I could look like the guys that I find attractive and therefore have never approached any of them for fear of rejection. After discovering this channel, I now realise that my main issue is that I'm constantly rejecting myself, which is crushing my sense of self worth and destroying any chance of being in a healthy relationship with myself or anybody else. Thanks for your vulnerability, honesty and ALL of the work you guys are doing... it really does help!

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому +1

      Thanks for sharing this with us Gareth. Means a lot to us to know that you are finding value in what we are creating ❤️

  • @barendkamperman1471
    @barendkamperman1471 2 роки тому +3

    Being perceived as attractive is not a joyride. Not knowing I was gay I couldn't understand my emotional life. Then I got into a heteronormative religious cult. This made me hate myself and believe I was cursed and damned. I left losing 98% of my friends. I attracted abusive people who wanted to use or abuse me. My kindness, intelligence and high standards meant nothing. Gradually I developed my own Christian Faith, learned to respect myself and dismantle religious guilt. Now I'm 71. Still in good shape, masc, confident and relational. Now ageism is a problem. (' Good for a quick lay and nothing else.) So I aim to build connections a little too carefully. But I feel sexy and I'm willing to die alone if I have to.

    • @jimflack9462
      @jimflack9462 2 роки тому +1

      At age 77, I'm right there with you on the willingness to die alone. I am still active, in relatively good shape, and what I perceive as attractive. And I can live and be happy with that.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому +2

      I am so glad you liberated yourself from that trap that was trying to convince you that there was something wrong with you

    • @barendkamperman1471
      @barendkamperman1471 2 роки тому

      @@jimflack9462 Don't give up hope. My mom always told me , "There's a lid for every pot!" Interact more with gay guys. You have a lot of wisdom, charm and great stories to tell if you made it this far.😊

  • @arteshinobi10.2
    @arteshinobi10.2 2 роки тому +3

    I asked myself, why do I need to based on someone's appearance just to like them and I remember I have tons of flaws. So I packed up my egos and start learning to dedicate my life on arts and appreciate whatever I have. Once I unlocked that I'm ok to be just myself without any partner and I'm so happy to know myself and accepted. If I have free time I painted and give them advice and compose music together to gay people who are lost, God! I really love my journal.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому +3

      I absolutely love this! I am also a fellow inward traveller and I applaud when others are diving deep too 👏

  • @adriannavarro2536
    @adriannavarro2536 Рік тому +1

    I really enjoyed this podcast.

  • @chadwrobertson
    @chadwrobertson 2 роки тому +2

    Thank you both for another really great talk and your sharing on power, safety and attraction. I am excited to contemplate how those themes show up in my own relationship to physical attraction.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому

      Glad you found value in the episode 😊

  • @jamaicaigot9335
    @jamaicaigot9335 2 роки тому +2

    this is awesome! do you mind posting the audio version on audea? I'd like to listen more than watch and that's where I get most of my audio content!

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому

      link.chtbl.com/GayMenGoingDeeper
      You can use this link to find it on your favourite podcast platform

    • @GayMenGoingDeeper
      @GayMenGoingDeeper  8 місяців тому

      We have this whole series on podcast as well. It’s on every podcast platform

  • @DontRushPerfection
    @DontRushPerfection 2 роки тому +3

    Great conversation, I took a lot from it. Thank you

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому

      So glad you found value in the episode 👍🏼

  • @domv5418
    @domv5418 2 роки тому +2

    I loved this discussion. You both gave me so much to think about and apply. You guys are awesome! Andre I love your laugh so much 😊
    Peace bros 🌏☮️❤️

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому

      Thanks for tuning in and I’m glad you enjoyed it. And yes I love his laugh too lol 😍

  • @tmbrad1288
    @tmbrad1288 Місяць тому +1

    I know this is a late reply but there are also disadvantages to being “ conventionally attractive” no one talks about.
    1. Targets for harassment and unwanted advances
    2. People not respecting your boundaries and not take no for an answer
    3. Being followed
    4. Not knowing who actually likes you as person or just sees you as a “trophy”
    5. Only being used for sex and once finished communication is cut off
    7. People underestimate your worth as a person
    8. People don’t take you seriously
    Good conversation tho

  • @10-OSwords
    @10-OSwords Рік тому +1

    Confidence will get you farther than attractiveness. People can look good & have low self esteem. You never know what's going on in someone's head. & there's a flip side to being attractive. I once had someone come up to me & tell me he liked something about me but his friends thought I was really cute. I asked where his friends were..."They decided you look like someone who gets whatever you want so you probably treat people like trash so they left". People can take one look at you, judge you, & decide you are less than w/o even saying one word to you just based on how you look on both sides of the aisle.

  • @jaquaw
    @jaquaw 2 роки тому +2

    The gay communities handling of Aaron Schoch is a prime example of pretty privilege

  • @seto749
    @seto749 2 роки тому +1

    My mind immediately jumped to a passage in *Notes on a Scandal* in which the narrator, a schoolteacher of late middle age, recalls seeing a young woman dancing on a bar in France and thinking how she would give almost anything - be stupid, be fatally ill, etc. - to have a fraction of that power for a short time.
    Part of the problem with the project as presented is that it seems to be a reversal of the trouble in ending the tradition in British public schools called [rhymes-with-gagging]. They wanted to end it for years, but whenever they did it there would be a group of boys supremely disadvantaged by having been [rhymes-with-bags] themselves without having the benefit in turn. Ending ageism would seem to be wildly popular in theory - only then who's going to be that magical group of gays who get to reap the benefit of Youth Culture and then not have to pay the price? One wonders how (or at least whether) it will go their hands and seduce them into thinking they deserved it.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому

      I appreciate the thought you put into this post. Thanks for sharing

  • @williamdelgado3232
    @williamdelgado3232 2 роки тому +2

    The attraction to the same will emphasize the beauty of the object of the attraction. The gay man beautifies the masculine, some say feminized. Beauty has no finalized point. The grass is always greener on the otherside of the fence.

  • @CytherX
    @CytherX 2 місяці тому +1

    It comes down to natures sexual selection of passing along the best genetics. You see this all over nature. Symmetry, beauty, coordination, strength, stamina, intelligence, general perfection is what mates often look for in selecting who to mate with.

    • @GayMenGoingDeeper
      @GayMenGoingDeeper  2 місяці тому

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts. It’s true that nature can have its patterns, but human connection and attraction go beyond just genetics. Beauty, intelligence, and strength can mean different things to different people, and what really matters is the deeper connection we build with one another.😍🤩

    • @CytherX
      @CytherX 2 місяці тому

      @@GayMenGoingDeeper I agree with that, I'm simply stating a fact that we are still run by our primitive biological programming to continue the human race in the game of life where the goal of nature is reproductive success. If which we are programmed to look for traits that will produce the best offspring

  • @MK-uw8qt
    @MK-uw8qt 2 роки тому +2

    Matt said what I have found through research. If you have 2 dating profiles that are extremely similar (not exactly the same because people will then know it's a catfish) and the only thing that is different is the picture. Make 1 dating profile have pics of a traditionally attractive, masculine, fit, able-bodied, white, cis-gender man and make the other as opposite as possible, you'll find the results real quick of who our community values and are willing to interact with. Again, remotely he SAME profile (job, similar hobbies, personality, etc.) the only thing different are the pics. You'll find that the physically attractive, masculine, fit, white, cis-men will get exponentially more attention. That's pretty privilege.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому +1

      Yes precisely, and we’ll said

    • @Hermit999
      @Hermit999 Рік тому +1

      Fortunately you are ascended in your thinking and actively seek out fem, fat, black, physically unattractive trans men 🎉

    • @MK-uw8qt
      @MK-uw8qt Рік тому

      @@Hermit999 I try, because I know it's a fact they're overlooked and as a result don't get the same love as the privileged groups.

    • @Hermit999
      @Hermit999 Рік тому

      @@MK-uw8qt you're in a cult.

  • @williamdelgado3232
    @williamdelgado3232 2 роки тому +2

    Str8 women look for security, particularly, financial. Can he provide for the family?

  • @twinkincarnate
    @twinkincarnate Рік тому +1

    51:30 around this mark when he was talking about energy, that's a new thing now where complimenting people's vibe or saying "I like your vibe" is code word for something else lol :') just thought it was interesting

  • @philipzanoni
    @philipzanoni 2 роки тому

    Try being 55 and chasing early 20 something year Olds on grindr. It's Self imposed torture and a self esteem crushing endeavor. I, like the guest, hate the aging process. And unless you're wealthy it's a losing battle. I've spent 35 years tanning to look good and handsome and all those things a great tan gives you. and ironically it is aged me and destroyed my complexion , making me look even older than I actually am..
    it's so frustrating..
    To top it all off ,
    my 23-year-old lover after 4 years just dumped me and moved on and I'm in that phase of I'll never find another like him as beautiful and that age ....
    never ..not at my age ..
    talk about a depressing story huh?
    I guess I'll stop here

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому +1

      How come you are seeking 20 year olds on Grindr? What is it about this demographic that is appealing to you?

    • @MichouThe
      @MichouThe Рік тому +1

      Why arent you persuing men of your own age?

    • @MbartM96
      @MbartM96 Рік тому

      @@MichouThe I think it’s all related to the obsession with beauty and youth. Many older gay men pursue younger men as it affirms something within them. Makes them feel that if someone of that age finds them appealing they will still feel desirable. That’s just what I’ve learned from questioning some older guys about it.

    • @LanceyKersti
      @LanceyKersti Рік тому

      Well the first problem is a 55 year old chasing 20 year olds, you are damn year old enough to be their grandfather. Nothing in common, a 20 year old is basically a child to a 55 year old.

  • @BLKusanagi
    @BLKusanagi 2 роки тому +2

    This is the second episode i’ve watched and I love this podcast 🥹🥹. This is everything that I’ve been looking for.

    • @mattlandsiedel
      @mattlandsiedel 2 роки тому

      This is music to our ears. We’re so glad you are enjoy the podcast and finding value 👌🏼❤️