Bad TXV & The Reason Why They Are Going Bad
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
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Dude spoke the truth. It was a bad 3 plus years of txvs plugging up. Had a bunch of york rooftop units with plugged txvs on every one of them. York sent out a pump and solvent to unstick the txvs. Didn’t work and that was all the support we got. It was explained in the same way about the compressor rust inhibitor being the culprit.
I’ve been running into the same problem you’ve been having, I’m squeduald to change one today day I installed a year ago. ICP product. I just did a 5 ton ICP I installed again it wasn’t very old. Thanks for the info that explained it.
Thank you for all you do and the information
Great video Ralph, no matter what you say or explain the problem in the back of the customers mind you are the problem. Keep up the good work.
Ray
I’m new and I appreciate your videos old and new. Thanks.
Good video, I feel for you. Apparently the rust inhibator is still in the compressor's oil, is it going to hurt the new expansion valve in 6 months, you might have to disconnect the compressor and drain the old contaminated oil and replace it with new oil. Sometimes it's like swiming upstream.
Very Good Point Jim!
It's Like Replacing a Carbeuretor With Bad Gasoline in the Fuel Tank. Your Just gonna Keep feeding it Sludge.
Jim Pettinato
less than six months, more like a dozen cycles. Add zerol ice with injector..
the rust inhibitor bullshit from the manufacturer is a lie. the expansion valves were made with a faulty seal and released the gas from the expansion bulb. if you threw ac renew in you system all it does is effectively allow enough refrigerant past the txv and turn it into an orifice. check it out if you tech service tells you to use it that shit. just remember to check superheat AND subcooling before and after.
Jim Pettinato i am your fan
Great video!
We are a LENNOX dealer and we are going thru the same shit!!!
Now they want us to inject Zerol Ice before we replace the TXV's
I feel your pain Man!!
Thanks for the video!!
its a good thing or not to inject Zerol Ice before replacing the TXV ?
Hey Ralph if you get a chance on one of your txv replacements or something could you show us your vacuum set up? I'm having problems with mine and can't figure it out. Keep up the good work your not doing anything wrong its just the junk they are giving us to work with.
Hey Ralph, Changed bad txv 1 month ago. 2 more stuck valves this week. Rheem is telling me to add AC re-new by new calgon. there telling me its a fix for this problem. Will find out tomorrow. Stay tuned.
Ran into 3 txv's the same way........scratchin' my head on why they were going bad.....thanks for the info!
Thanks for getting the word out about this.
I’m not sure why that condenser wouldn’t pump the system down... also, I’d be willing to bet that TXV failed because the installer overheated the sensing bulb and damaged the diaphragm. TXV’s are way better than pistons because they make the system so much more efficient but they definitely aren’t as reliable as a piston.
I finished watching the video. That’s pretty interesting. I’ve never heard this. What brand of coils are you putting in?
You can still pump it down through your gauges. Close liquid line valve the open both valves on your gauges compressor will pull it through your. Saves lots of time
That's a great tip, I have used that one on non bleed txvs to speed things up but not on the pump down process.
So after replacing the valve us the problem permanently fixed? If not has the compressor company been forced to replace the coil or tge compressor. Since the change was on the compressor manufacturer it should be thier responsibility.
Go to piston instead a TXV..I know you will loose some efficiency, but owner dont want to see a tech anytime soon.
i concur
why would a compressor that has no oxygen in it have any need for a rust inhibitor? That doesn't make any sense. You would require moisture and oxygen to oxidize (rust) of which both are absent
When you change that valve out and there is a inline filter shouldn't that filter be changed as well it being that the line is opened to moisture when you remove the txv? I'm having mine replaced today and a buddy told me that my filter should be changed as well. Thanks for the video buddy, thumbs up on the video.
Thanks, do you know around when that was? (Year perhaps?) only asking because my company I work for have diagnosed several bad TXV's. i had one on a 3 year old AM standard the beginning of this week. Also, had a recently replaced TXV go bad as well, I believe it was in for 1 year (albeit the unit was an older Lennox heat pump so maybe that had to do with that older oil too) Maybe pistons are still a better way to go?
If I'm reading the guages right you had a high subcool. So txv failed shut. Starving Indoor coil. If you pump down from liquid line why wouldn't you be able to pump it out?
What's the cap (looks like a tire cap) that screws on the TXV valve? What's that cap for and should it be on and stay on? And what does it do? The guy who installed my air conditioner didn't put it on when the air conditioner was installed, but they put on later after i had brought it to their attention as it was sitting outside on a ledge by the air conditioner. It looks like a cap on a tire valve. What are they for and should they be on or off? Trying to figure out if that is the cap off of the suction line where the equilizer from the tx valve connects and should that be on or off so that the ac coil doesn't freeze up from low pressure?
Great video Ralph ....I will trade you 5 furnace drain pans for your TXVs....I've done more this week than I did last year ...unreal here in Memphis .Taking Monday off , got another first thing Tuesday ..!!
Hello sir. This video is so helpful. Sir pls help me. How many problem coming in bad TXV? Pls answer me sir..
You should get one of those window tinting places to tint the windshield about 10 inches down. I had a ford pickup like that and it worked really nice.
Thanks for your judicious work ethic and sharing trade experiences.
Love your reviews and your straight talking honesty. You're really a good egg!!
Are you installing filter dryers on every install at the indoor coil? I do on every installation to be safe. Seems like all that "crud" would have been captured in the dryer if you had.
the oil missing with the rust inhibitor, did they solve the problem yet? or are you going to be going out changing the same txvs once again?
That txv was hunting like a son of a gun. I had one a buddys house that ran fine for 30mins then completely nose dive. Very odd I thought. Seen more 410a txvs failing more recently on equipment barely a couple years old. Most times I removed them ,never find any restrictions at the INLET/OUTLET. Nice video good info,
T&N Services LLC. There are a couple of major reasons I am seeing TXVs fail, and it's so easy to fix. If the bulb is horizontal, make sure the sensing tube is above the charging stem on the bulb, so the liquid won't migrate out of the sensing bulb and into the valve head, and if it's vertical, make sure the tubes are coming out of the top of the bulb, and don't mount it upside down like Trane likes to do with their outdoor TXVs in heat pumps. I had to flip my sensing bulbs around the right way but some of them were already stuck.
i was wondering if the length of the line was possibly too long at installation, thereby causing heat loss before the evap coil. if ruled out, how might you had done so?...Thank you
I'm a hvac tech in central Georgia and I noticed you have a aluminum Carrier coil. I have replaced 4 due to corrosion at one year old. Have you had issues with the coils? Carrier says they are testing to find source.
If the needle, has build up on it. Just remove needle and clean it. So many guys replace TXVs it's just a body. Like a engine block. Just replace the insides. Like the sporlans. You can buy the tool to remove the seat. And also replace that. Or if it's a cartage type replace it. No need to remove the valve body...
Barrett's Stuff The valve body itself never fails. It's always the internals. I couldn't count how many I've torn apart, vleaned with r-11 flush and oiled and put back together. Works like new. I'm primarily commercial refrigeration though. Sbqe bodys
will Trane pay labor for the TXV replacement? sounds like a lemon as my wife would say. 3 ton 16 xli installed 6/15 never defrosted, new board and sensors were just installed next moring unit OD both lines cold yet fan was running luckily we had back up electric coils but they are expensive. Turned t stat yo emer 3hrs later set t stat to heat and OD raun and heat out of registers Tech checked everthing and is thinking TXV Should I try REnew or what ?
The number one reason I see TXVs going bad is I believe the installers are brazing them in with no wet rag on the TXV during the install and you wonder how I know that? Because I caught them doing that at every single company I ever worked for and would scream at them when I found them doing it
#2 Reason was the installers always seemed to have defective vacuum pumps of which probably would not even suck air out of a system let alone any moisture but then that was the same with a lot of companies I worked for they would not maintain any of their equipment or tools which was why I always had my own tools such as a vacuum analyzer which actually showed some of those vacuum pumps only hitting about 1500-2000 microns max LOL
Either one of those might start up OK but give it a few months and that burnt valve or moisture in the system will destroy that TXV and shut it down along with a third problem I would see of which shut them down which was some idiot over charged the hell out of the unit to the point it stuck the valve closed
I have heard about new grease rust inhibitors and other stuff but those three above were the majority of problems I saw the brazing burns would show up all over the front of the coil case indicating they never took the cover off to put a wet rag on the TXV
The moisture would show up indicated by a bunch of green corrosion inside of the brass valve body or even the flow rater fitting
The over charge was evident after a customer shows me a bill as to what the last company had done to a brand new unit which was put what could be any where from 5-10 pounds of extra refrigerant in it I had to recover to get the charge right at which time sometimes the valve would go back to work other times it stayed locked closed not only that but was bleeding right thru the low pressure tap into the suction line with liquid frosting the line back to the condenser on start up as if there was no air flow
It was real hard for me to believe anyone would believe some tech telling them the refrigerant goes bad so they always need new refrigerant to help the old refrigerant then over charge those peoples units but yes I heard that from many customers also along with the square refrigerant molecules get the edges knocked off turning them round so more square molecules of refrigerant are needed to be added to make it work again LOL
One company wanted me to see why another tech seemed to have problems with all of his start ups and I found he would put in an extra 2-3 pounds of refrigerant on every start up and show it on the ticket
Thinking maybe he was just using refrigerant for pressure testing or something I asked him why he showed that three pounds of refrigerant use on every start up while the company owner and the service manager were there listening in
His reply was, I've been doing A/C work for ten years and everyone knows the more Freon you put in the colder it gets
Told my boss, well I'm hungry and going home to get something to eat see y'all tomorrow and left him with that joke as he then knew exactly why that kid had problems with all of his start ups, He had hired a moron LOL
Were these 410a systems that were over charged?
I can't imagine over charging by that much, without tripping the high pressure switch, or at least poping fuses in disconnect box everytime the compressor cycles on.
I feel ya on the TXV issue. I work for a company that does new construction and we have changed close to 500 of these valves this summer alone. Sometimes I change 4 of these per day. Some of the systems are on their 3rd replacement valve. Do you know where I can find documentation saying it is a copeland problem? The last dealer service bulletin (8/20/14) I received from carrier just says "it's a start up only issue".
Aaron May I changed 2 coils in one day because of this, it was in the beginning before they said there was a problem. I thought it was something I was doing wrong. If I had to do 4 in one day I would have a fit, LOL
T&N Services LLC. Holy crap Ralph. 3rd replacement on some of his. Scary.
Great video ralph I had to change a TXV myself in the kitchen AC the said part it wasn't under warranty !!
Harry is the master.....
What are the benefits of using a txv besides more “efficient” and how much more efficient is it than a piston? You can do a lot of different things to make it more efficient. But why a txv if a piston is easier/cheaper is it worth the efficiency loss?
I feel your pain, I know to well how it is when you have a problem with a new unit or part. I bought two bad new units on after the other. That really sucked.
Isn't it nice that Copeland hasn't paid me or anyone for the labor and materials or refrigerant for their screw up? They wouldn't even pay for the additive pump.
I hope there is a law suit we can all join in- I sure can't afford an attorney to fight this for years. I know I'm out a few thousand bucks on this.
I enjoy your videos- good work.
There is a case action lawsuit going on. Time to join it may have expired though. Really appreciate the support
Agree with you. They only offered to cover the cost of AC Re New alone, not all the trips out there, not the tool, etc.
I heard they were paying $200.00
a piston would never fail like that ..
I agree I am NOT a hater of TXVs but pistons are way more better
***** is that you corny??? you fucking looser??
***** lol come on come up with something better then that ,, that was pretty sad
***** ben don't get your panties in a bunch
***** lol still weak
Ralph, what about new TXV valve? Will that one get blocked within few years? There is bunch of comments? I am bit confused. Thanks in advance
T&N Services- I'm lookin to make the jump into digital gauges & i'm trying to decide between Fieldpiece sman360 or Testo 550's. I'm wondering how you are liking your 550's? Having any problems/issues with them? Knowing what you know now, would you still buy them again? Good video on the TXV nightmare. We're a Lennox dealer & we've stopped counting how many have gone bad.
Testo without a doubt would be the best choice. I've had my oldest set for 4 years without 1 problem. I've left them laying on the ground in a rain storm came back and they were ready to go. SMANS are just to big and bulky in my opinion
+T&N Services LLC. is there a way to unclog the txvs due to the rust inhibitor?
If I had a nickel for every TXV I've replaced I could retire ha ha. Thanks for the info, I was wondering why so many were failing. I work with mostly Carrier & ICP products. Those gauges you were using look nice. Some of those digital gauges display microns when your evacuating the system. I really like that feature.
oh sorry i thought the comment about ripping off customers was about me using the addditive. thanks for all your videos now i know az and trane isnt the only people dealing with this nightmare
I'm a Bryant dealer and they're telling me to run zero ice in the system before changing the txv..I don't like additives in systems.. What are your thoughts and are you running the additive to help in stick the txv
Chrismcdaniel Rheem is recommending the same thing now. A/C Renew first, then a TXV if necessary.
so wouldnt there be a way to flush all that reacted oil crud out before putting the new txv in?? seems obvious to me that the crud from the reaction would still be in the system and would cause the next valve to fail in due time as well unless the system was flushed.... in fact, why replace the txv at all... perhaps flushing the system would clear the stuck valve too?
I have a 2011 Payne 3 ton heat pump and the system uses a TXV. Will I have this issue? So far it's performing as it should.
Your unit is ok. This issue is only for units made the first week through the 27 week of this year.
Having an issue with a lennox pressure on gauges constantly goes up and down i would think its a bad TXV what do you think
My new unit has a copeland and a TXV. Did they clear this issue up for 2016/17 models?
good stuff ralph i didn't know any of that. your very knowledgeable about how this all happened.
I m an hvac student and I have a question for you sir. Can you change the txv by pumping down the system or do you always have to recover the freon before changing the txv? Thank you for all the videos they sure help.
It depends on what is going on and what position the TXV is in when it fails. I would plan on recovering the refrigerant though. To make it easier close the valves on the outdoor unit so you only have to recover and vacuum the lineset
can you close the pressure side and leave the suction side open for a second to pull most refrigerant in compressor?
do you have problem pumping down carrier or does the high pressure switch trip while you pump it down
We have been having a really bad time with txv also. I had heard a couple different reason but I am pretty sure it is exactly the one you described. Nobody wants to take the blame. I subscribed to your channel. Thanks a bunch for the videos
Hey sky, it is Copelands fault, there is a class action lawsuit going on with them
Whe n we deal with Lennox They just adout insist that any 410a system will only work with a txv... but they send pistons with every condensing unit... I hate dealing with the failures to. Because it maks me look bad. Yet my boss wants the txvs installed ... :-( nice video. I leared alot from this one...
Had three on Ruud units. Cause I always like to see inside of what broke I took the old TXV valves apart. On all three that pin was so locked in with that black tar that I had to SAW the valve body in order to pull the pins out to look.
When are they going to start improving these TXV's?? As many as I diagnosed this summer (including a few days ago on a 3 year old american standard) you would think they would start making them a bit better or try something different.
I had to do one on a newer Rheem earlier. Easy one though no brazing required. Glad I use mostly Goodman with the piston
Is there a reason why you don't adjust the superheat setting on that TXV? Is it 95F outside head pressure? If not, I'd pressure wash that coil first. What is the supply return air delta T? If your supply/ return air delta T is 17-21F, as measured on the cabinet, its doing all it can , otherwise just give the TXV a CCW turn and wait 15 min. You may be surprised. I've found factories don't adjust SH, the just mid set the valve. restrictions from driers dissolving is something we've seen quite a bit, mainly on soldered-in driers.
+hvac01453 most OEM HVAC TXV's aren't adjustable. Trust me everything like washing the outdoor coil ect was done. Last thing I wanna do is change a TXV
+T&N Services LLC. I'm afraid I must agree with your comment. Many times I have attempted to remove the stem cap only to find refrigerant starting to spray everywhere...pisses me off they would do that. I saw a new tav from Danfoss and they have a stainless steel cap tube to the sensor. The salesman must have twisted and bent it a million times and it was fine. also the body is stainless with copper clad for ease of brazing AND you don't have to wrap it in wet rags and they claim it doesn't get hot....weird.
never pressure wash a condenser coil
Hey just wondering if that Copeland scroll problem messing up all your txv's could also cause a similar problem in a piston system?
I will try to find you one. The one I have is before the inhibitor issues
Great video, sounds like TXV s are good when they do not fail. Do you feel that the older ones do not fail as much? I have a Rudd going on 12 years with a TXV no problems,( knock on wood) again very good video, i liked it.
Are you sending your message to me or T & N Service the guy who put the video up??
There's gotta be some sort of neutralizer on the market that can be introduced into the system when the indoor unit or the outdoor unit is installed; to try to lessen the chances of that crud building up.
Thanks a lot for that explanation which my technical support at supplier could not.
I didn't see the service bulletin any reference materials or links thanks in advance
I have a unit in which the compressor shuts off and fan keeps running in condenser high side pressure 340 low side 199 when running
Good Video T&N. I am Finally glad they Found the Problem, but as James Petinato is Saying....the Cause of the Problem is still inside the system. Copeland Needs to Be Sending you New Compressors, Suction & Liquid Driers, Expansion Valves & Flush for the Line Set.
Recommend: Replace Compressor (Gummy Shit inside Compressor) , Flush lines,Evaporator & Condenser of Gummy shit, Replace Txv, install new suction & Liquid Drier For a Permanent Fix or you could be Going Back Again and Again Forever.
I Had Multiple Cap Tubes Plugging up until i Replaced a Compressor & Flushed the System. Poe oil Plugging up Cap tubes.
I Hate Cap Tubes.
my TXV died on us two week ago...
my local installer recommended to order a new TXV ....but now im worried after having read your comment
did your new set up still hold strong ?
Great job Ralph!
Also, I just LOVE when customers think every issue is "freon" hehehe
And bad thermostat...
Why don't you replace the whole coil under factory warranty, or replace it with a piston coil?
+abdu11a23 Pistons are inefficient. if the oil it the problem he could possibly add an oil separator so oil stays in the compressor.
LateniteHVAC it's not a supermarket rack
just a quick question, why are you putting a txv bulb on the upper portion of a suction line?
I just put it back where I found it.
Copeland put an additive which causes TXV's to stick, during a certain run of compressors. Factory said "AC Re New" fixes it. Tried it and it has worked so far. If it didn't, I would simply trash the TXV and put an orifice.
Good video. I will tell you that by just changing the valve will probably not cure the problem long term. The oil is still in the compressor with rust inhibitor crap still in there. The best thing to do is use AC Renew. Trust me the problem will come back. Ive read so many sb's I'm dizzy. Just fyi ac renew has been a god send to this problem.
Thanks, i do really like the size of the Testo's + a 5 yrs. warrt. right now. Sorry it posted the comment a million times. It was telling me that it was having a problem posting. So i just gave up.
from what I understand manufactures say if u change txv once u won't second time rust inhibitor is very small amount and won't plug up again
Dont believe them. Ive had to replace valves more then once
i have that same recovery machine i love it
I like how the sound of the V8 truck. Sweet
Has arcoaire/icp got s handle on the units having issues??
I am putting a system in my grandpas house here in a few weeks, I was looking at nordyne, then decided to go arcoaire after hearing johns feedback, however the last thing I want to deal with is issues. I see this Video was 6 months ago have they got a handle on it now?
I know it was Copeland that had the issues but it's in the arcoaire equipment.
Hey Gm, ICP and all the other manufacturers has got the problem solved. So you should be good with any unit you want to put in.
Thanks for the quick response Ralph. You, John, Steve Lav, and all the rest of you guys always are prompt with your answers and help.
Thanks again, the Arcoaire is about $420 more for the complete system but with nordyne being bought out again it may be best to go elsewhere at this time. Plus I'm aggravated they left poplar bluff mo, that is going to hit that town hard I'm afraid.
Nice job and video Ralph !! Take care, Brett
Hi Ralph , how much you charge to replace TXV ???
thanx for ur reply I figured that but just thru it out there what I was told u guys r pros also enjoy ur vids
Good to know... Thanks for this info. Hopefully Carrier or Copeland is stepping up and paying for your warranty work
if you Get a link----Hopefully you could post for us to Print it out. for customers.
I think the problem is in the startup, when you charge a system with 410 a you must do a sub cooling and check the liquid line temp. If you over charge the system you can slug the txv with liquid refrigerant and the txv will close.
why didnt you just pump the system down, and lock all of the freon into the condensor?
Hey if anyone can help me, I am a rookie. But I have a guy with a 5 ton split york system R410, Head pressure is fluctuating, and causing it to trip out on high head pressure. I am thinking it is the txv causing it?
APECK618 sounds like noncondensables
Good video Ralph. I am sure you aren't the only one our there.
It's like the ZZ Top song Zack it's "Nation Wide"
***** don't whine cause you suck at brazing. You will get it. Just keep practicing
Is there a reason why you couldn't put the old R410A back in?
He would Have to Have a Dedicated Empty R-410a Jug Just For this Purpose Evacuated For These Txv changouts & His Other R-410a Jug that u use For Pulling Contaminated Refrigerant. i Would think it is Possible.
Does a bad txv cause a short cycle?
Why is it Copland fault. Please explain. Thanks
Who pays for your labor, Copeland, or the customer, or neither?
Do you ever try adjusting TXV's before removing them? I thought some of them had adjusting knobs. Or check to see if the orifice is too large for the unit on a piston system?
All the txv's are non adjustable. I wish there was a way to adjust them, but the problem is there is a build up of crude on the needle so I don't think adjusting them would help
T&N Services LLC. Can't you install an adjustable bottom cap to adjust the setting on the TEV? That won't stop crude building up, but I believe Sporlan sells a kit to change them from non-adjusting to adjustable.
Nice video and explanation.
I like those gauges but the O-ring on the site glass has a tendency to leak
I shouldve watched the whole thing before commenting because I never knew it was the copeland oil reacting. Is/has copeland addressed this yet?
They fixed it as soon as they found out they were at fault
Well now that they figured it out are they gonna fix the issues?
Yeah they said they switched back to the original stuff
Carrier now says they put out a bulletin about there TXV's. They will not give me a txv without first putting in Rejuvenation oil. Carrier tells me to run the special oil in the unit for 24 hours. If it does not fix the problem then they will give me a TXV under warranty. Problem when the txv is stuck closed the indoor coil freezes. Did it yesterday. Came back this Moring to a block of ice in the attic. Sweat dripping off the duct. Making the ceiling wet! But Carrier says all the other contractors that have used the Rejuvenating Oil has worked on 100% of the AC units that had a bad TXV. Yea, Right
I've run that stuff once. It's called ReNu or something like that. it made my pressures back to normal after about 20 minutes. I ended up putting 15 ounces back in to the unit for good subcooling - exactly what the tech took out the day before to keep it from bumping the high head switch.
I'm keeping a case on board. I hate changing out TXV's
Ben Quinn. Your comments are whack. If a company replaces a TXV with a fixed metering device it will cause the new R-410a to flood the compressor with to much refrigerant or in some areas of the country it starve the compressor of refrigerant in other locations
. Then you will over heat the compressor. Carrier or any other manufactures would not warranty a new unit We install if we started changing the way they are made from the factory. The people that make the AC units today pay there engineers very well. I would love to install a fixed metering device I had a lot less problems with the piston style metering device. Your commit on brazing. Soft solder has a melting of about 500 degs. This is for copper water tubing. We use 15% silver brazing rods on copper tubing that has a melting temp of about 1400 deg. The people that are ripping off the Consumer are the company's that send our factory jobs out of the country. You need to go after those guys. They now give 10 year warranty on parts that will not last 5 years. We just install them.
Nice explaining the issue Ralph , that sucks 7 in one season. Hey man I know u r tired but be happy u have those ac calls cause up here its dead right now lol.
Hey Justin I agree with you man. It's been slow as hell. I've been working pumps and bearings this past 2 weeks
Hey Justin I agree with you man. It's been slow as hell. I've been working pumps and bearings this past 2 weeks
Emin HVAC I hear ya man we been crawling by trying to make the best of it , I'm sort of looking forward to heating season now !
Yeah me too. Lol
Finally the truth comes out. Copeland.......please raise your hand.
Carrier was at our shop today and they were blaming cope land for their zp compressors for the txv failures
how do you like that Testo set
I changed a dozen txv last year all trane ive done the oil additive twice in the past 2 weeks and worked both times not right away I returned 2 days later
Sorry you feel I'm ripping off customers these are new units and trane requires us to try the oil first I was happy it worked