theft involves one man's gain from another's loss. With piracy, there is no loss- just the absence of gain for the individual owning the property. If they're making antipiracy ads they should at least recognize this fact...
Funny thing -- I've published six books, not that anyone has ever heard of them. If someone distributes my PDF or other electronic version, I'm the one who gets hurt, because I'm self-published. Even sharing the book with friends kinda stinks. But again, it's because it's only me, not MegaPublisher International. So thanks, really, for making the distinction. Support your local author; screw the over-published giants.
"You actually think TakeTwo made millions when their martket cap has dropped $1.5 billoin?" They've sold somewhere around 15 million copies of the game. The mere fact that a record-breaking number of copies were SOLD, ie, with an EXCHANGE OF MONEY taking place, means that any losses the company has suffered were not from a lack of sales due to "piracy." PERIOD.
I spend money to make my movies. I rely on the people who'd like to watch my movie to pay for it. It's how I make my living. If people choose not to rent it on a site it's available legally on and choose to go instead to a site that does not have the legal right to show my move, that is a view that won't help me recoup the cost of making my movie. Movies are a business, not something we wish to 'share' for free with the world. They're very expensive to make! If you spent money to bake cookie to sell and people just took them without paying you, you wouldn't be able to pay your bills either. PLEASE get this notion that 'sharing' a product that was created with someones money is ok. It's not. It's stealing.
I pay to make a film. It gets distributed on pay platforms so I’ll be reimbursed for what it cost me to make it so you can watch it. When I get paid, I can afford to make another film. That’s how it works when you’re a filmmaker. You think you’re ‘sharing a file’. Nope. Your ‘stealing someone’s film’. You want to watch it? Please pay for it. They’re not made for free!
@@Notwanderlustfilms wow crazy you replied 7 minutes after me on such an old video, but yeah i’m gonna stick to what I do lmao (I don’t actually pirate films though so maybe that will make you feel less offended)
Not offended. I realize many people don’t understand how watching pirated movies hurts struggling filmmakers. We love making movies for everyone to enjoy but it’s so damned expensive we need peeps to pay to view instead of ‘sharing’. In this case, ‘sharing’ IS stealing profits from the creators. Thank you for understanding and not doing that. Shut down pirate sites so they don’t make money by stealing our films and putting them on their sites. Thanks!
At last someone says what I've been thinking for years. In no other industry is copying (for reasons of non-profit) illegal. The truth is that the burden should be on the film-maker to find a new way to make profit out of the industry, such as endorsements or advertising. If I was selling a product and people stopped buying, the burden is on ME to create a new product that people want to buy
People always say, "But then the creator gets no money!" We're far too fixated on monetary gain, I create and post my creations online so that I can feel the great response you get. If I made a movie and some guy said "I downloaded your flick. It was great!" I would shake that man's hand and say "Why thank you very much. We need to stop focusing on money and start focusing on global community and culture.
@@DroBoww it is profitable when people pay to view. I love making movies. It’s great when people respect artists and support them. I pay for the movies, music and books I stream. I wouldn’t steal them because I’m not a thief.
When it comes to piracy, we already have laws, and with the Megaupload fiasco, they proved that we don't NEED sopa necessarily - and what good would such broadly defined powers be, ESPECIALLY when under control not of responsible people, but corporations that hav been caught misusing what they already have?
Ever since Steam and Spotify I bought my products....I still pirate the shit out of games that are full of that DRM crap though. Mostly because I refuse to buy a product that has a maximum of installs while the pirates get infinite, I mean hell I would join the pirates in that case. *Cough* EA Games
So if you think it’s ok to take my film for free, I guess it’s alright for me to just take that paycheck you worked for? Hey! It’s just sharing, right?
Okay then, so let me get this straight: 1. You're being stolen from, even though nothing has been physically taken from you. 2. You don't base this idea on theoretical loss of sales. 3. You DO base the idea off the concept that distributors won't distribute your software if a version has already been leaked online, even though you self-release. Am I right so far? And I've read the court documents, which is why your simplistic misinterpretation of them is so amusing to me.
Please respect filmmakers and watch their films on platforms that reimburse themselves for their hard work. Don’t enrich pirate platforms. That’s thieves helping thieves.
"Cost of materials has not been the majority of costs for decades" I didn't say "majority," I said major component. In the entertainment industry, most of what you pay ends up with the cigar-chompers at the top. I don't doubt other industry is similar. "You have not answered my question. Why do you not believe in my constitutional rights?" I'm not going to answer that question, because it's a ridiculous red-herring. "GTA IV" Sold 6 million copies on its first week of release. End of story.
I wouldn't steal a car...... but i would make an identical copy of it for my own use and i would allow my friends to make another copy for them,so we could all have cars.....
So keeping in mind that when we play nice, the bad guys win (and its not obvious they're bad guys), and that the bad guys have an advantage that puts them on top. We can assume the distributors are on top because they followed the same principles of success used by their counterparts in other pursuits. So why should we help these most-very-likely unprincipled people, continue to take more?
because part of the money collected when you rent or buy a movie legally goes to the person who spent their money MAKING the movie. distributors get a cut because they do the work of getting the movie to the platforms. this is not a good guy/bad guy issue. filmmakers should be reimbursed for the money, time and work they put into creating the movie. not have it taken from them illegally and shared on a site they didn't sign an agreement with. It's the movie makers product.
"If the judge was part of an anti-rape group, do you think it bias to try a rape trial?" Uhhh.....YES. That would be a textbook case of conflict of interest, as a judge that feels that strongly on the issue at hand could not be expected to fairly try the accused.
"f appropriating dishonestly anything belonging to another, whether material or immaterial. It fits the definition exactly. " Except when you make a copy of that song or movie, you leave behind the original. .. which most logical definitions require as a prerequisit.
That's how it works. When we all play fair - the guys who don't win the most. To win, you need everything working in your favour. That is the nature of high-level competition (such as international business, politics, or the Tour de France). The fact is, the ability to cheat and not get caught - either by successfully covering your actions, or making people believe they're okay - provides such an advantage that it would be very unlikely that most of the universe's winners were not cheats
The problem with the circular logic anti piracy pundits employ is that its deceptive. When you steal a car you are depriving someone who took the time to buy that car of their property. It is their physical property because they traded something for it. Artist who claim losses are banking on the idea that you would have bought it had it not been for piracy. But its a dubious position at best. Not all people who get a copy would of bought it in the 1st place. So how can you recoup a negative?
Like I said, He bought one copy. You can apply this sharing not stealing policy to anything and frankly I am tired of arguing. I say its stealing, you say its sharing, I do not want to continue this futile argument.
Why does the government allow companies like the MPAA to sue and WIN against DVDShrink? That doesn't make sense, because under the Fair Use Act, we are allowed a single copy of our movies as a backup. So why are little programs like DVDShrink allowed to be run out of business when they are providing a legal service to us movie fans? Clearly, something dirty is going on, and my guess is that it's the lobbyists.
1. If it costs so much that introducing one of the best-selling games in history is no help to you, then you're spending too damn much to run your business. That's what's commonly known as a "failure of management." 2. Touche. Unlike you, I can admit when I'm wrong. But it doesn't matter, because the conviction won't stick. They're still currently free men, they haven't paid a cent yet, and the site is still up. 3. I didn't say it was "more biased." I said it would be "as biased."
Giving out samples? What, you mean making yourself an accessory to STEALING??? They're not paying for it, so that's STEALING. A law from 300 years ago says so.
@gyrfalcon -- I'd like to be able to stay alive long enough to write some more books. In these days, that requires cash, which could be provided by sales of books. If I'm a WalMart greeter at minimum wage, I'm not likely to have much energy left to write more books. Would you rather read more of my books, or have me starve to death in my nobility?
You said no distributor would distribute it if it's already been leaked (which by itsself, is of course, false). If you haven't distributed it yet, then you're not selling it yet. How could a pirate upload a copy to The Pirate Bay unless they have a pre-release copy, leaked from your own company?
[citation required] I have no doubt piracy impacts companies, but seriously, the RIAA and MPAA are not ones whose statistics should be taken at face values. The loss values are in fact padded to look worse than they are. And layoff can never be completely attributed to piracy - I'd like to see some REAL Examples of this happening.
If i was an artist I would happily let my fans download my music for free. After all, they always go on about how they just want the world to hear their music. They make enough from gigs and t.v ect. Some people are soo stupid, all the rich want is to get richer even if it means crushing the average joe.
@crank636 While I'm not too sure about the US, I do know that in most of Europe you are indeed allowed to make 'a back-up copy' of most forms of media. I suppose the argument though on this level would be that while you should be able to insure what you purchase (by making back-ups), by sharing the media you are preventing others from following your lead in actually making the same purchase. If this were to become common enough practice, people would cease purchasing movies/etc. altogether...
The fact that you believe Itunes is a virus is HI-larious, and on the DVD sharing thing, the friend bought 1 copy af the movie, to distribute that 1 copy of the movie however he likes, by downloading it, the person is replicating and distributing something not his own, which is not okay. There are some artists who just want their music to be heard and gives it away for free, but the ones who don't have every right to sell it for what ever they like.
"TPB makes money" Unproven allegations. TPB denies that they make money off their project, and nobody has proven otherwise. Given their amount of bandwidth and the minuscule amount of advertising on their network of sites, I don't doubt this. "Why do you support them?" Because thanks to them, I can obtain hard to find and out-of-print works. Furthermore, I agree with much of their politics, and their opposition to the recording industry in particular.
"I never said anything about Jammie Thomas and Brittany Kruger" I never said you did. I SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THEM. They're two of the real victims here. That's right, REAL victims. Not your "I'm a victim because of my theoretical loss based on false logic" malarkey. Your "property" is not being taken from you. Nobody is actually physically removing files from your computer.
@HumansAreGay -- First above all, thank you! Please, NO FLAME INTENDED, only a "thought experiment." On a *moral* basis, it's still theft; on an emotional basis, or even a practical daily basis, I'm with you -- some have all, while most have little. This is a polarizing issue, isn't it? Again, thank you, and here's hoping we find the best possible answer. You rock.
i felt like i was robbed when i purchased a pc game at the store that turned out to suck that i then could not return due to the software policy on pc games. so much better to simply pirate the game and then go buy a real version if its good. especially nowadays since devs seem to care more about money than making a quality game so most of them suck.
@crank636 It all comes down to whether a particular example of entertainment media is to be considered as an artistic piece (and therefore should be a form of FREE expression); or is it to be considered as a recreational product i.e. a product specifically designed with the purpose of entertainment at a price.
If you haven't distributed it, how the hell does the Pirate Bay get its hands on it, unless someone in your own company leaked it? Sounds like your problem.
ever heard of Itunes? you can download any song you want for 1$ per song. Borrowing DVD's is not the same, when you borrow a dvd, your friend no longer has the DVD, when you file share you replicate and distribute a song. would you like to explain how stealing isn't wrong?
You shouldn't really go against what you think about something just to be different. If everyone else dislikes it and you dislike it also, you are perfectly allowed to add a thumbs down. The fact you've done this deflects douchery onto you.
Moreover. In the case of business, and politics, you need only to successfully cover your dishonesty for a time, during which you collect what you came for (money and power, respectively). Even in the case of the Tour-de-France, there was no disadvantage to cheating, and no advantage to being honest. The cheat got no medals in the end (but he did get rich in the meantime - but lets pretend medals are all that matter), but he wouldn't have had the medals without cheating.
"The estimate is NOT based on every download being a loss." Then what could you possibly be basing it on? You aren't losing ANY THING. And don't give me that "distributors won't touch it" bullshit. For one thing, you can self-release your own material online and charge for it. Distributors are not absolutely necessary. The fact that you can distribute your "free samples" is proof enough of that. Shoplifting is physically taking goods, not copying them. Thus, there is an actual loss involved.
@gyrfalcon "Just because you like doing something, and people like that you do it, doesn't mean you can make money off of it." Curious observation. Rather goes against the "Do what you love and the money will follow" admonition, doesn't it? And since money is irrefutably required to live in this modern world, wouldn't it be best to do something you love, and that spreads that love, rather than doing what you hate, or what hurts others? Not sure I'm following your train of thought.
I don't know what "exploiting artists" and distributing "propaganda" have to do with whether downloading a movie without the owner's permission is stealing i.e. a crime. They are exclusive issues. You can say that exploitation is unfair (though this is argumentative - the artist can choose to be contract-savvy or not). And ALL communication - regardless of form - is propaganda at the end of the day.
@venttCo -- visit Amazon or B&N online and look for books by Tristan MacAvery. There may be as many as six, in very different categories. Horror novel ("Divine Intervention"), haunted house murder mystery ("Tea for Twenty'), and a few others. Thanks for the interest. *^_^*
Hey, if you think that they do not deserve money for it, don't purchase it, but they have the right to sell it for whatever they want, they made it. you are taking away from the profits the artist might have made, so it is stealing and stealing is wrong.
"95% of goods are intellectual property." Now you're just making junk up. Cost of materials is a large portion of manufacturing costs. What the hell do you think that money is going to, the designer of the set? Funny. And maybe some day the recording industry will pay their musicians more than 1% of the costs of an album, too. "Hey, let's completely destroy the economy. Everything is free." And you have the nerve to accuse me of straw-man arguments.
I might support sopa and pipa.. its a hot topic because someone can say that its a 1st constitutional issue but the US is headed toward a knowledge based economy and this will protect us from people stealing a newly precious assets by countries abroad.. There are people who get this we're just not in an outrage so therefore we're not posting like crazy... but im not completely sold just yet.. dont hold me to this posting i still need to do some reading
@1SapereAude1 ...a very good point! *laughs* I still have no real concept of this whole social networking thing; I appreciate the input. At the least, my profile now has a link to my Amazon author page (not sure if I should recreate here). Let's hope that, after my ranting, someone finds my books worth reading. ~_^
@darkslayerryu thats true man, proper, i see so many genius comments on youtube, urs being one of them, I'm actually suprised i have a comment as good as urs replied to me, i envy you sir :) ( no sarcasm, real talk)
The reason they don't want priacy about is because they want more money, which they have WAY too much of anyway. They most likely don't veven deserve it.
I doubt blue rays will be downloaded LOL imagine how long it would take to download. Even DVD's are huge files and compressed one's are not as good as the real deal, listen to mp3's and then listen to the original disc it's usually better. Mp3's and compressed movies are nothing but lower quality of the original source material. So you really not stealing the same thing they sell in stores. Leave us alone and go after the people who make perfect copies of your material
"Billinos have been stolen from millions of workers." Billinos? Are those like burritos? Damn, now you're making me hungry. And for the record, it IS theoretical, because as always, it is predicated upon the false premise that those who torrent your files would actually pay money for whatever damn piece of software it is you write. And yes, you do have a right to your work. But the right to halt the progress of society instead of changing with the times and developing new business models? No.
@SpudCommonTater U said it yourself "not that anyone has ever heard of them". Why buy a book you haven't heard of? Meaby you should consider sharing your book for free or meaby a light version? ;-) Good luck and yes I feel sorry for the small publishers.
@SpudCommonTater Maybe try youtube to promote your books too! I got curious and wanted to check your books out so I clicked on your profile. Nothing there.
It wasn't a straw-man, it was sarcasm. There is a difference. The point that I'm making is that you hold such venomous hatred for individuals who are accused of civil infringements, and speak about them as if they're criminals. Two different things, sir, two different things. "You steal from millions of workers." I don't steal jack shit, even using your ridiculous terminology. The last thing I torrented was an album by an independent band that has been out of print since 1988. Who is losing?
"You have no concept of the money that it takes to create a new game." $35 million according to your previous post. And if 15 million copies were sold (a record, BTW) at $50 apiece, that means $750 million. Unless distribution costs were $715 million, then the "piracy eating the profits" argument doesn't hold water. Use your brain and quit lying.
So then movie budgets will go down on all movies, and you see the quality of movies get worse, because big companies won't make films that everyone will just pirate or see online. Why do you think there is so many remakes or adaptations? Cause they don't want to risk money on indie movies and taking a loss. How do you explain what happened to all the record companies? There is no profit in making music anymore, only concerts.
I'm calling you vitriolic because you're constantly throwing the term "STEALING" around, as if in a temper-tantrum, and you claim to support the abuses against the (often falsely accused) fire sharers, like Jammie Thomas and Brittany Kruger. "To take or appropriate dishonestly anything belonging to another." Which proves how the term does not apply. Nothing is being taken from you. "intangibles as well as material things" Yeah. You can "steal a look" or "steal a kiss," for example.
fun fact: the music in the ads on dvds was pirated
theft involves one man's gain from another's loss. With piracy, there is no loss- just the absence of gain for the individual owning the property. If they're making antipiracy ads they should at least recognize this fact...
Funny thing -- I've published six books, not that anyone has ever heard of them. If someone distributes my PDF or other electronic version, I'm the one who gets hurt, because I'm self-published. Even sharing the book with friends kinda stinks. But again, it's because it's only me, not MegaPublisher International. So thanks, really, for making the distinction. Support your local author; screw the over-published giants.
A fantastically eloquent argument.
"You actually think TakeTwo made millions when their martket cap has dropped $1.5 billoin?"
They've sold somewhere around 15 million copies of the game. The mere fact that a record-breaking number of copies were SOLD, ie, with an EXCHANGE OF MONEY taking place, means that any losses the company has suffered were not from a lack of sales due to "piracy." PERIOD.
"you wouldnt steal a car".. i would if i could download it ..
"Piracy" is file sharing, file sharing is sharing, not stealing, file sharing is copying, it is adding one more, not stealing, which takes one away.
I spend money to make my movies. I rely on the people who'd like to watch my movie to pay for it. It's how I make my living. If people choose not to rent it on a site it's available legally on and choose to go instead to a site that does not have the legal right to show my move, that is a view that won't help me recoup the cost of making my movie. Movies are a business, not something we wish to 'share' for free with the world. They're very expensive to make! If you spent money to bake cookie to sell and people just took them without paying you, you wouldn't be able to pay your bills either. PLEASE get this notion that 'sharing' a product that was created with someones money is ok. It's not. It's stealing.
@@VBITES1womp womp you already have enough money
I pay to make a film. It gets distributed on pay platforms so I’ll be reimbursed for what it cost me to make it so you can watch it. When I get paid, I can afford to make another film. That’s how it works when you’re a filmmaker. You think you’re ‘sharing a file’. Nope. Your ‘stealing someone’s film’. You want to watch it? Please pay for it. They’re not made for free!
@@Notwanderlustfilms wow crazy you replied 7 minutes after me on such an old video, but yeah i’m gonna stick to what I do lmao (I don’t actually pirate films though so maybe that will make you feel less offended)
Not offended. I realize many people don’t understand how watching pirated movies hurts struggling filmmakers. We love making movies for everyone to enjoy but it’s so damned expensive we need peeps to pay to view instead of ‘sharing’. In this case, ‘sharing’ IS stealing profits from the creators. Thank you for understanding and not doing that. Shut down pirate sites so they don’t make money by stealing our films and putting them on their sites. Thanks!
I wouldn’t steal an intercontinental ballistic missile or an entire reality
*shows me giving it to my friend to incorporate the 2 things into my mech*
At last someone says what I've been thinking for years. In no other industry is copying (for reasons of non-profit) illegal.
The truth is that the burden should be on the film-maker to find a new way to make profit out of the industry, such as endorsements or advertising. If I was selling a product and people stopped buying, the burden is on ME to create a new product that people want to buy
People always say, "But then the creator gets no money!" We're far too fixated on monetary gain, I create and post my creations online so that I can feel the great response you get. If I made a movie and some guy said "I downloaded your flick. It was great!" I would shake that man's hand and say "Why thank you very much. We need to stop focusing on money and start focusing on global community and culture.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to make a film?? I invested 100g in mine! If People watch it for free. I’m done making films forever.
@@Notwanderlustfilms Nobody is forcing you to make films, if you’re wasting that much money and it isn’t profitable enough then you should quit.
@@DroBoww it is profitable when people pay to view. I love making movies. It’s great when people respect artists and support them. I pay for the movies, music and books I stream. I wouldn’t steal them because I’m not a thief.
When it comes to piracy, we already have laws, and with the Megaupload fiasco, they proved that we don't NEED sopa necessarily - and what good would such broadly defined powers be, ESPECIALLY when under control not of responsible people, but corporations that hav been caught misusing what they already have?
Ever since Steam and Spotify I bought my products....I still pirate the shit out of games that are full of that DRM crap though. Mostly because I refuse to buy a product that has a maximum of installs while the pirates get infinite, I mean hell I would join the pirates in that case. *Cough* EA Games
----PIRACY IS NOT A CRIME----
Share everything...!
So if you think it’s ok to take my film for free, I guess it’s alright for me to just take that paycheck you worked for? Hey! It’s just sharing, right?
Downloading isn't stealing. The goverment is tho. Taking ur rights to go on the internet however u want
i'm downloading a car right now.. :)
Okay then, so let me get this straight:
1. You're being stolen from, even though nothing has been physically taken from you.
2. You don't base this idea on theoretical loss of sales.
3. You DO base the idea off the concept that distributors won't distribute your software if a version has already been leaked online, even though you self-release.
Am I right so far?
And I've read the court documents, which is why your simplistic misinterpretation of them is so amusing to me.
Please respect filmmakers and watch their films on platforms that reimburse themselves for their hard work. Don’t enrich pirate platforms. That’s thieves helping thieves.
"Cost of materials has not been the majority of costs for decades"
I didn't say "majority," I said major component. In the entertainment industry, most of what you pay ends up with the cigar-chompers at the top. I don't doubt other industry is similar.
"You have not answered my question. Why do you not believe in my constitutional rights?"
I'm not going to answer that question, because it's a ridiculous red-herring.
"GTA IV"
Sold 6 million copies on its first week of release. End of story.
And then steal his helmet. You wouldn't go to the toilet in his helmet. And then send it to the policeman's grieving widow. And then steal it again!
I wouldn't steal a car...... but i would make an identical copy of it for my own use and i would allow my friends to make another copy for them,so we could all have cars.....
So keeping in mind that when we play nice, the bad guys win (and its not obvious they're bad guys), and that the bad guys have an advantage that puts them on top.
We can assume the distributors are on top because they followed the same principles of success used by their counterparts in other pursuits.
So why should we help these most-very-likely unprincipled people, continue to take more?
because part of the money collected when you rent or buy a movie legally goes to the person who spent their money MAKING the movie. distributors get a cut because they do the work of getting the movie to the platforms. this is not a good guy/bad guy issue. filmmakers should be reimbursed for the money, time and work they put into creating the movie. not have it taken from them illegally and shared on a site they didn't sign an agreement with. It's the movie makers product.
"If the judge was part of an anti-rape group, do you think it bias to try a rape trial?"
Uhhh.....YES. That would be a textbook case of conflict of interest, as a judge that feels that strongly on the issue at hand could not be expected to fairly try the accused.
"f appropriating dishonestly anything belonging to another, whether material or immaterial. It fits the definition exactly. "
Except when you make a copy of that song or movie, you leave behind the original. .. which most logical definitions require as a prerequisit.
That's how it works.
When we all play fair - the guys who don't win the most.
To win, you need everything working in your favour. That is the nature of high-level competition (such as international business, politics, or the Tour de France).
The fact is, the ability to cheat and not get caught - either by successfully covering your actions, or making people believe they're okay - provides such an advantage that it would be very unlikely that most of the universe's winners were not cheats
So, essentially, copyright law no longer exists?
It is not sharing, it is stealing
The problem with the circular logic anti piracy pundits employ is that its deceptive. When you steal a car you are depriving someone who took the time to buy that car of their property. It is their physical property because they traded something for it. Artist who claim losses are banking on the idea that you would have bought it had it not been for piracy. But its a dubious position at best. Not all people who get a copy would of bought it in the 1st place. So how can you recoup a negative?
It's not a crime to steal from a thief anyway
EPIC
Nice!
Like I said, He bought one copy. You can apply this sharing not stealing policy to anything and frankly I am tired of arguing. I say its stealing, you say its sharing, I do not want to continue this futile argument.
Why does the government allow companies like the MPAA to sue and WIN against DVDShrink? That doesn't make sense, because under the Fair Use Act, we are allowed a single copy of our movies as a backup. So why are little programs like DVDShrink allowed to be run out of business when they are providing a legal service to us movie fans? Clearly, something dirty is going on, and my guess is that it's the lobbyists.
1. If it costs so much that introducing one of the best-selling games in history is no help to you, then you're spending too damn much to run your business. That's what's commonly known as a "failure of management."
2. Touche. Unlike you, I can admit when I'm wrong. But it doesn't matter, because the conviction won't stick. They're still currently free men, they haven't paid a cent yet, and the site is still up.
3. I didn't say it was "more biased." I said it would be "as biased."
Giving out samples? What, you mean making yourself an accessory to STEALING??? They're not paying for it, so that's STEALING. A law from 300 years ago says so.
@gyrfalcon -- I'd like to be able to stay alive long enough to write some more books. In these days, that requires cash, which could be provided by sales of books. If I'm a WalMart greeter at minimum wage, I'm not likely to have much energy left to write more books. Would you rather read more of my books, or have me starve to death in my nobility?
You said no distributor would distribute it if it's already been leaked (which by itsself, is of course, false). If you haven't distributed it yet, then you're not selling it yet. How could a pirate upload a copy to The Pirate Bay unless they have a pre-release copy, leaked from your own company?
[citation required]
I have no doubt piracy impacts companies, but seriously, the RIAA and MPAA are not ones whose statistics should be taken at face values. The loss values are in fact padded to look worse than they are.
And layoff can never be completely attributed to piracy - I'd like to see some REAL Examples of this happening.
If i was an artist I would happily let my fans download my music for free. After all, they always go on about how they just want the world to hear their music. They make enough from gigs and t.v ect. Some people are soo stupid, all the rich want is to get richer even if it means crushing the average joe.
@crank636 While I'm not too sure about the US, I do know that in most of Europe you are indeed allowed to make 'a back-up copy' of most forms of media.
I suppose the argument though on this level would be that while you should be able to insure what you purchase (by making back-ups), by sharing the media you are preventing others from following your lead in actually making the same purchase. If this were to become common enough practice, people would cease purchasing movies/etc. altogether...
The fact that you believe Itunes is a virus is HI-larious, and on the DVD sharing thing, the friend bought 1 copy af the movie, to distribute that 1 copy of the movie however he likes, by downloading it, the person is replicating and distributing something not his own, which is not okay. There are some artists who just want their music to be heard and gives it away for free, but the ones who don't have every right to sell it for what ever they like.
"TPB makes money"
Unproven allegations. TPB denies that they make money off their project, and nobody has proven otherwise. Given their amount of bandwidth and the minuscule amount of advertising on their network of sites, I don't doubt this.
"Why do you support them?"
Because thanks to them, I can obtain hard to find and out-of-print works. Furthermore, I agree with much of their politics, and their opposition to the recording industry in particular.
"I never said anything about Jammie Thomas and Brittany Kruger"
I never said you did. I SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THEM. They're two of the real victims here. That's right, REAL victims. Not your "I'm a victim because of my theoretical loss based on false logic" malarkey.
Your "property" is not being taken from you. Nobody is actually physically removing files from your computer.
@HumansAreGay -- First above all, thank you! Please, NO FLAME INTENDED, only a "thought experiment." On a *moral* basis, it's still theft; on an emotional basis, or even a practical daily basis, I'm with you -- some have all, while most have little. This is a polarizing issue, isn't it? Again, thank you, and here's hoping we find the best possible answer. You rock.
i felt like i was robbed when i purchased a pc game at the store that turned out to suck that i then could not return due to the software policy on pc games.
so much better to simply pirate the game and then go buy a real version if its good. especially nowadays since devs seem to care more about money than making a quality game so most of them suck.
if you want me to see your arguments you have to hit reply, and I have said before that it is not sharing but stealing, so I agree sharing=/= stealing
@crank636 It all comes down to whether a particular example of entertainment media is to be considered as an artistic piece (and therefore should be a form of FREE expression); or is it to be considered as a recreational product i.e. a product specifically designed with the purpose of entertainment at a price.
i wouldnt download a car...
All pirates knows it's wrong.
They try to adapt law so it's suits them.
Flame me.
Piracy is not a crime?
Try telling that to the judge, mate.
I pirated Garry's Mod and Portal. Loved them, so bought them because they were so awesome.
If you haven't distributed it, how the hell does the Pirate Bay get its hands on it, unless someone in your own company leaked it? Sounds like your problem.
ever heard of Itunes? you can download any song you want for 1$ per song. Borrowing DVD's is not the same, when you borrow a dvd, your friend no longer has the DVD, when you file share you replicate and distribute a song. would you like to explain how stealing isn't wrong?
You shouldn't really go against what you think about something just to be different. If everyone else dislikes it and you dislike it also, you are perfectly allowed to add a thumbs down.
The fact you've done this deflects douchery onto you.
i likes to share :)
Moreover. In the case of business, and politics, you need only to successfully cover your dishonesty for a time, during which you collect what you came for (money and power, respectively).
Even in the case of the Tour-de-France, there was no disadvantage to cheating, and no advantage to being honest.
The cheat got no medals in the end (but he did get rich in the meantime - but lets pretend medals are all that matter), but he wouldn't have had the medals without cheating.
i really like this video, it has a more say than piracy
How the fuck would they know I wouldn't steal a car.... :D
"The estimate is NOT based on every download being a loss."
Then what could you possibly be basing it on? You aren't losing ANY THING.
And don't give me that "distributors won't touch it" bullshit. For one thing, you can self-release your own material online and charge for it. Distributors are not absolutely necessary. The fact that you can distribute your "free samples" is proof enough of that.
Shoplifting is physically taking goods, not copying them. Thus, there is an actual loss involved.
@gyrfalcon "Just because you like doing something, and people like that you do it, doesn't mean you can make money off of it."
Curious observation. Rather goes against the "Do what you love and the money will follow" admonition, doesn't it? And since money is irrefutably required to live in this modern world, wouldn't it be best to do something you love, and that spreads that love, rather than doing what you hate, or what hurts others? Not sure I'm following your train of thought.
Yeah... coz that's a valid point...
I don't know what "exploiting artists" and distributing "propaganda" have to do with whether downloading a movie without the owner's permission is stealing i.e. a crime. They are exclusive issues. You can say that exploitation is unfair (though this is argumentative - the artist can choose to be contract-savvy or not). And ALL communication - regardless of form - is propaganda at the end of the day.
Very Gen Z. Thank you for just reoverscrewing the Gen AD - analogue and digital mixup generation.
And it's expected to be declared a mistrial, due to a conflict of interest on the part of the presiding judge. Maybe you should keep better track.
@venttCo -- visit Amazon or B&N online and look for books by Tristan MacAvery. There may be as many as six, in very different categories. Horror novel ("Divine Intervention"), haunted house murder mystery ("Tea for Twenty'), and a few others. Thanks for the interest. *^_^*
Hey, if you think that they do not deserve money for it, don't purchase it, but they have the right to sell it for whatever they want, they made it. you are taking away from the profits the artist might have made, so it is stealing and stealing is wrong.
"95% of goods are intellectual property."
Now you're just making junk up. Cost of materials is a large portion of manufacturing costs.
What the hell do you think that money is going to, the designer of the set? Funny. And maybe some day the recording industry will pay their musicians more than 1% of the costs of an album, too.
"Hey, let's completely destroy the economy. Everything is free."
And you have the nerve to accuse me of straw-man arguments.
I might support sopa and pipa.. its a hot topic because someone can say that its a 1st constitutional issue but the US is headed toward a knowledge based economy and this will protect us from people stealing a newly precious assets by countries abroad.. There are people who get this we're just not in an outrage so therefore we're not posting like crazy... but im not completely sold just yet.. dont hold me to this posting i still need to do some reading
I guess you don't watch IT Crowd...
It's not illegal if you don't get caught :P
@1SapereAude1 ...a very good point! *laughs* I still have no real concept of this whole social networking thing; I appreciate the input. At the least, my profile now has a link to my Amazon author page (not sure if I should recreate here). Let's hope that, after my ranting, someone finds my books worth reading. ~_^
@darkslayerryu thats true man, proper, i see so many genius comments on youtube, urs being one of them, I'm actually suprised i have a comment as good as urs replied to me, i envy you sir :) ( no sarcasm, real talk)
The reason they don't want priacy about is because they want more money, which they have WAY too much of anyway. They most likely don't veven deserve it.
I doubt blue rays will be downloaded LOL imagine how long it would take to download.
Even DVD's are huge files and compressed one's are not as good as the real deal, listen to mp3's and then listen to the original disc it's usually better. Mp3's and compressed movies are nothing but lower quality of the original source material. So you really not stealing the same thing they sell in stores. Leave us alone and go after the people who make perfect copies of your material
"Billinos have been stolen from millions of workers."
Billinos? Are those like burritos? Damn, now you're making me hungry.
And for the record, it IS theoretical, because as always, it is predicated upon the false premise that those who torrent your files would actually pay money for whatever damn piece of software it is you write.
And yes, you do have a right to your work. But the right to halt the progress of society instead of changing with the times and developing new business models? No.
WTF? is that an insult? or are you trying to make an argument?
that would be sensoring.... most constitutuions entrench the right to free speech
@SpudCommonTater
U said it yourself "not that anyone has ever heard of them". Why buy a book you haven't heard of? Meaby you should consider sharing your book for free or meaby a light version? ;-) Good luck and yes I feel sorry for the small publishers.
@SpudCommonTater
Maybe try youtube to promote your books too! I got curious and wanted to check your books out so I clicked on your profile. Nothing there.
download is sharing, sharing is good - so what's the fucking problem?
It wasn't a straw-man, it was sarcasm. There is a difference. The point that I'm making is that you hold such venomous hatred for individuals who are accused of civil infringements, and speak about them as if they're criminals. Two different things, sir, two different things.
"You steal from millions of workers."
I don't steal jack shit, even using your ridiculous terminology. The last thing I torrented was an album by an independent band that has been out of print since 1988. Who is losing?
LOL
i would steal a car or a movie
i get by from DLing pics of cars i want..
"You have no concept of the money that it takes to create a new game."
$35 million according to your previous post. And if 15 million copies were sold (a record, BTW) at $50 apiece, that means $750 million. Unless distribution costs were $715 million, then the "piracy eating the profits" argument doesn't hold water.
Use your brain and quit lying.
Bad videos, then?
Hi, there. Let me add something to this fine discussion.
LOL U PROLLY MAKE BAD MUSIC AND SAW A TORRENT OF IT OWNED :D
So then movie budgets will go down on all movies, and you see the quality of movies get worse, because big companies won't make films that everyone will just pirate or see online. Why do you think there is so many remakes or adaptations? Cause they don't want to risk money on indie movies and taking a loss. How do you explain what happened to all the record companies? There is no profit in making music anymore, only concerts.
I'm calling you vitriolic because you're constantly throwing the term "STEALING" around, as if in a temper-tantrum, and you claim to support the abuses against the (often falsely accused) fire sharers, like Jammie Thomas and Brittany Kruger.
"To take or appropriate dishonestly anything belonging to another."
Which proves how the term does not apply. Nothing is being taken from you.
"intangibles as well as material things"
Yeah. You can "steal a look" or "steal a kiss," for example.
que contradictorio
You wouldn't shoot a policeman..
Oh how the times have changed. Yes if they work for the Bourgeoisie