I watch your channel regularly. I think you have made a fair assessment of the cube. I have not used a cube either, but I looked at one as I was considering a purchase - but changed my mind after seeing the construction
Hi Phil, I agree with most of your observations but I feel that I should point out a few things just to be fair. First, a vacuum chamber can be any shape. A sphere is the strongest shape and can therefore be made thinner than a cylinder and much thinner than a box assuming they are all made using the same material. Ultimately the chamber only needs to withstand around 15psi of pressure though which is fairly trivial and the designer can easily specify how thick the walls need to be to meet whatever deflection spec he decides on. Thicker flat plate may be less expensive than a thinner cylindrical blank of an appropriate size or maybe other design requirements existed that made a round corner box a better choice in this instance. Second, I agree about room for ice build-up however that square box likely has significantly more interior surface area than the cylindrical chamber of the HR assuming they are roughly the same size trays. Therefore it may not build up ice as thickly as the HR since the moisture will always stick to bare metal before thickening up (the metal is colder than the existing ice and is a better trap). The box also may have less volume in it meaning more of the moisture may actually end up in the pump. Third, your concerns about ventilation are exactly correct. Fourth, in any freeze drying unit the vacuum pump is always the weak point. The worse possible thing you can do to any vacuum pump is to pump water which is exactly what a freeze dryer does. The pump WILL fail. Making it accessible is just plain smart. I would speculate that the cube will have exactly the same vacuum pump issues as the HR. Finally, thank you for all that you do for the freeze drying community! P.S. I will stick with my HR!
Made up my mind :) I was considering buying the Cube and giving my HR to my sister. Have been using my HR for almost 3 years and only issue I've had (knock on wood) is the unable to achieve vacuum, resolved by changing the valve on the drain hose. Now I keep an extra drain hose valve since it wears out. I'll keep my HR, it has been very good for me. Thank you for this video.
Might want to think about this, Harvest Right uses an oil pump - Chinese made at that. The reason I bring this up is because when using an oil style pump you need a valve that shuts off the pathway from the pump to the dryer. This is because when the dryer goes into freeze mode there is a pressure drop in the dryer. This causes air to flow FROM the pump to the dryer and into the food chamber. This air flow can pick up oil mist and droplets of oil and deposit them into the food chamber/food causing contamination. Yes, Harves Right offers an oilless pump - most likely Chinese since they do not advertise the manufacturer and therefore will most likely not last. Now the Cube does not have a valve either, however their oilless pump is GERMAN made and they have had ONLY 1 failure in 5 YEARS. With oilless pumps, there is a much LESS likely chance of contamination. There is only one company that makes home units that uses a motorized valve that separates the pump from the dryer - Stay Fresh. However, I liked the patented humidity sensing tech in the Cube which goes a step further to ensure that the food is completely dry. We ordered the Cube. This video review is a joke. Do some research for yourself, dont even trust what I say. Call the prep4life Cube manufacturer or Stay Fresh and talk with them directly, I did. Both of these units are made in the US. I have heard and read HORROR stories on getting HR to stand behind their product if a problem arrises.
Your channel is excellent. I bought a HR and did have issues in the beginning, -had to adjust the door, etc...but their tech help was SO good, they not only taught me more about the machine, but gave me confidence in operating it as I am a true beginner in this whole venture and I have subsequently been freeze drying just about every day since! The fact that their company has such good support, is vital to a person like myself.
This is a GREAT video. I recently put a Harvest Tight on layaway then wondered if I should have gotten a Cube after I learned about it. Now I am glad I got a Harvest Right.
Very well done. Spherical makes sense, also defrosting spherical pieces of ice allows water to slide down to bottom of space instead of dripping top to bottom and onto shelving and product in trays.
Good points Phil. I thought all the same things when I saw The Cube, esp the cylinder vs square and pump location. I didn't keep thinking about it long enough to consider the possible ice buildup space issue. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Have a great week.
Phil has no clue of what he is talking about. Might want to find a reviewer who AT LEAST has the unit he is spewing misinformation about. I have worked for NASA and Toyota and have years of experience with vacuum chambers. If you have good materials and proper reinforcements, a square chamber is actually stronger than a circular one without reinforcements. What's the wall thickness of either chamber? Nothing is mentioned about this in his fancy animations. Just wow.
I calculated the pressure on the door of a HR Large freeze dryer. It came out to 1 1/4 tons. Little wonder the acrylic door dishes inward under vacuum. The chamber walls I didn't calculate but I'd guesstimate at about 6 tons. Those square walls on the Cube will focus the forces at the corners and will cause metal fatigue which will lead to cracking and or implosion. I did get to watch a vid of a Cube going into a defrost cycle, and the amount of ice fracturing heard was amazing. Yes, you get some with the HR machines, but nowhere near that amount. I usually hear a pop or two during the run as the pressure crosses the 225 mTorr level from the chamber walls shrinking. Each pop or crack is from the chamber wall moving either inward or outward, so there's lots of movement on the Cube, and the more movement, the more fatigue. The door is made from cast acrylic sheet. Cast acrylic has far less internal stress than extruded sheet. Polishing and chemicals can increase the stress to the point of crazing (microcracking). With the stresses placed on the door from atmospheric pressure, any damage to the door is a hazard. If the door gets a deep scratch or any crazing is seen, REPLACE THE DOOR! Cracked acrylic can be just as sharp as glass, and in an implosion shards will fly!
We bought a cube and it wouldn't finish batches whenwe fully filled up the trays (bought it from 4Patriots). Had to send it back. Have a Harvest Right and it has been running non stop.
I have read comments on social media saying the cube by Prep4Life is a rebranding of the 4Patriots "failed" freeze dryer launch. Since your manual on the Cube is printed as 4Pattiots, it would seem to add credibility to that observation. Thank you for this discussion.
Per a conversation with the inventor of the HR freeze dryer, the oil less pump they have is made for convenience only. Their premium pump is made to last. Oil less pump is not better.
My sister has both Freeze dryers and has had no problems with the cube but lots with the harvest right. There seems to be a lot of glitches with the newer harvest right. I bought the cube because of the customer service of my harvest right. I haven't tried it yet.
I'd like updates on your experience. Knock-offs generally do better since they didn't have to go through the research and development as the original. I think HR is going to pave the way for many more freeze dryers since all of their patents are now expiring.
@@Philat4800feet As much as I can I will update you. One thing you might not know is the interior of the cube isn't square and the rack has legs so there is considerable space around the trays for ice. The pictures don't show that. HR may come up with new innovations but they need to work on their customer service. Mine is 2017 and the people I talk to don't have a clue about my harvest right. I also found they don't have parts for it or the other accessories like the oiless pump. My biggest concern with the cube is the pump being inside the case. On the HR I can buy other pumps if needed but what do I do if the cubes pump goes out. I think that will be a problem.
The age-old problem with the harvest right freeze dryer is that it breaks down and getting it repaired from the company which they totally give you a run around. After spending over $4500 and mine not working close to a year I’m still not using it for the fact Harvest Right does not repair the machines and it breaks down on a regular basis.
I'm curious if you would review the Blue Alpine freeze dryer. I think its a new company & made in USA. I've search for many hours but can only find one You Tube video posted from the company. Also, no review on it. They look very promising & am considering buying one.
I remember a high school physics lab where our teacher heated a square olive (or veggie?) oil can over a bunsen burner. Sealed it and took it off the heat. Then plunged it in an ice water bath. It crumpled like an elephant sat on it. (This was not a thin can)
You nailed it. I immediately had the same thoughts on the absurdity of putting the vacuum pump inside the cabinet adding that much heat right next to a condenser whose sole job is to remove heat from the chamber. Common sense would tell you that it would drastically reduce the efficiency of the condenser, and drastically shorten the life span of both the condenser and vacuum pump. What nimrods designed this thing? I never thought about the chamber design which I agree with your points as well as even the harvest right with much more chamber surface area for ice at times will accumulate much more ice than I like to see with certain batches.
1.) As for the square, I understand about a circle having better pressure management than a square, but 500mTors is roughly only about 10 pounds of pressure. I would feel like a metal square is engineered to handle 10 pounds of pressure. This isn't something that is needing to be crazy strong, just strong enough to handle the work it is set forth to accomplish. 2.) The space between the sides for ice to build up is a super good point... 3.) I also asked about the pump and found out from East Texas Homesteading: The pump that is used here is by Scroll Labs Technology, and It's a dry scroll vacuum pump. Here's the info I got from it. Patent protected Floating Scroll Technology, Uncontaminated flow, No contamination of the media due to oil-free operation, No tip seal or PTFE dust, Maintenance-free, No tip seal or diaphragm, High performance and long product life, Compact size and high level of gas tightness, Very quiet and low vibration, Can operate in any installed position, Startup against air or vacuum. The pump has only one moving part which is the scroll and I can tell you this from operating it, that it produces almost no heat which tells me that there's no friction and less wear and tear. So I see why the company feels that these vacuum pumps will last a while. edit: I also want to say thank you for putting this out and giving your option! The perspective is really good and I value it!
The things you are saying make sense, I have no experience with either of the brands. But I watch a few channels. and one of them does own the cube and he seems to like it, No idea if it will hold up long term or not. But so far it seems to be doing well.
Oh snap! Been wondering when some real reviews on the Cube and the StayFresh would come out. Great point about the lack of space for ice. No way could I do a gallon of raw milk in the cube.
Phil my thought the oil less pump. It will work fine till warranty up. Then because of your thoughts on it. It will need to rebuild or replaced. Best guess we’ll over $1,000 to $2000 for a new pump. This will be the owner responsibility. It’s expensive to start with because of the oil less pump. It’s weakest fault for sure. Bill
I am glad Harvest Right is starting to get competition. There is also A new unit called D- Freeze. It looks promising...I purchased my HR freeze dryer back in 2017 and whenever I had a problem with the unit I seldom called their customer service. I don’t want to besmirch HR but not everyone working there is an asset to the company.
I watch your channel regularly. I think you have made a fair assessment of the cube. I have not used a cube either, but I looked at one as I was considering a purchase - but changed my mind after seeing the construction
Hi Phil,
I agree with most of your observations but I feel that I should point out a few things just to be fair.
First, a vacuum chamber can be any shape. A sphere is the strongest shape and can therefore be made thinner than a cylinder and much thinner than a box assuming they are all made using the same material. Ultimately the chamber only needs to withstand around 15psi of pressure though which is fairly trivial and the designer can easily specify how thick the walls need to be to meet whatever deflection spec he decides on. Thicker flat plate may be less expensive than a thinner cylindrical blank of an appropriate size or maybe other design requirements existed that made a round corner box a better choice in this instance.
Second, I agree about room for ice build-up however that square box likely has significantly more interior surface area than the cylindrical chamber of the HR assuming they are roughly the same size trays. Therefore it may not build up ice as thickly as the HR since the moisture will always stick to bare metal before thickening up (the metal is colder than the existing ice and is a better trap). The box also may have less volume in it meaning more of the moisture may actually end up in the pump.
Third, your concerns about ventilation are exactly correct.
Fourth, in any freeze drying unit the vacuum pump is always the weak point. The worse possible thing you can do to any vacuum pump is to pump water which is exactly what a freeze dryer does. The pump WILL fail. Making it accessible is just plain smart. I would speculate that the cube will have exactly the same vacuum pump issues as the HR.
Finally, thank you for all that you do for the freeze drying community!
P.S. I will stick with my HR!
Good points. I love the conversation and thoughts this has generated.
In my humble opinion you earned much more than 2 cents by doing this review for us . Thank you for doing it.
Made up my mind :) I was considering buying the Cube and giving my HR to my sister. Have been using my HR for almost 3 years and only issue I've had (knock on wood) is the unable to achieve vacuum, resolved by changing the valve on the drain hose. Now I keep an extra drain hose valve since it wears out. I'll keep my HR, it has been very good for me. Thank you for this video.
Might want to think about this, Harvest Right uses an oil pump - Chinese made at that. The reason I bring this up is because when using an oil style pump you need a valve that shuts off the pathway from the pump to the dryer. This is because when the dryer goes into freeze mode there is a pressure drop in the dryer. This causes air to flow FROM the pump to the dryer and into the food chamber. This air flow can pick up oil mist and droplets of oil and deposit them into the food chamber/food causing contamination. Yes, Harves Right offers an oilless pump - most likely Chinese since they do not advertise the manufacturer and therefore will most likely not last. Now the Cube does not have a valve either, however their oilless pump is GERMAN made and they have had ONLY 1 failure in 5 YEARS. With oilless pumps, there is a much LESS likely chance of contamination. There is only one company that makes home units that uses a motorized valve that separates the pump from the dryer - Stay Fresh. However, I liked the patented humidity sensing tech in the Cube which goes a step further to ensure that the food is completely dry. We ordered the Cube. This video review is a joke. Do some research for yourself, dont even trust what I say. Call the prep4life Cube manufacturer or Stay Fresh and talk with them directly, I did. Both of these units are made in the US. I have heard and read HORROR stories on getting HR to stand behind their product if a problem arrises.
Your channel is excellent. I bought a HR and did have issues in the beginning, -had to adjust the door, etc...but their tech help was SO good, they not only taught me more about the machine, but gave me confidence in operating it as I am a true beginner in this whole venture and I have subsequently been freeze drying just about every day since! The fact that their company has such good support, is vital to a person like myself.
Good ti hear.
This is a GREAT video. I recently put a Harvest Tight on layaway then wondered if I should have gotten a Cube after I learned about it. Now I am glad I got a Harvest Right.
Thank you for your thoughts on this
Very well done. Spherical makes sense, also defrosting spherical pieces of ice allows water to slide down to bottom of space instead of dripping top to bottom and onto shelving and product in trays.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Good points Phil. I thought all the same things when I saw The Cube, esp the cylinder vs square and pump location. I didn't keep thinking about it long enough to consider the possible ice buildup space issue. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Have a great week.
Phil has no clue of what he is talking about. Might want to find a reviewer who AT LEAST has the unit he is spewing misinformation about. I have worked for NASA and Toyota and have years of experience with vacuum chambers. If you have good materials and proper reinforcements, a square chamber is actually stronger than a circular one without reinforcements. What's the wall thickness of either chamber? Nothing is mentioned about this in his fancy animations. Just wow.
I appreciate your review. It helped my decision.
Knowledge is power.
I calculated the pressure on the door of a HR Large freeze dryer. It came out to 1 1/4 tons. Little wonder the acrylic door dishes inward under vacuum. The chamber walls I didn't calculate but I'd guesstimate at about 6 tons. Those square walls on the Cube will focus the forces at the corners and will cause metal fatigue which will lead to cracking and or implosion. I did get to watch a vid of a Cube going into a defrost cycle, and the amount of ice fracturing heard was amazing. Yes, you get some with the HR machines, but nowhere near that amount. I usually hear a pop or two during the run as the pressure crosses the 225 mTorr level from the chamber walls shrinking. Each pop or crack is from the chamber wall moving either inward or outward, so there's lots of movement on the Cube, and the more movement, the more fatigue.
The door is made from cast acrylic sheet. Cast acrylic has far less internal stress than extruded sheet. Polishing and chemicals can increase the stress to the point of crazing (microcracking). With the stresses placed on the door from atmospheric pressure, any damage to the door is a hazard. If the door gets a deep scratch or any crazing is seen, REPLACE THE DOOR! Cracked acrylic can be just as sharp as glass, and in an implosion shards will fly!
Good stuff- Thanks
Great observations!
Great review! I can see the square design causing a lot of headaches on big runs.
LG Harvest Right has not failed me yet.
We bought a cube and it wouldn't finish batches whenwe fully filled up the trays (bought it from 4Patriots). Had to send it back. Have a Harvest Right and it has been running non stop.
I have read comments on social media saying the cube by Prep4Life is a rebranding of the 4Patriots "failed" freeze dryer launch. Since your manual on the Cube is printed as 4Pattiots, it would seem to add credibility to that observation. Thank you for this discussion.
I've heard of that too.
Per a conversation with the inventor of the HR freeze dryer, the oil less pump they have is made for convenience only. Their premium pump is made to last. Oil less pump is not better.
People underestimate the importance of oil.
My sister has both Freeze dryers and has had no problems with the cube but lots with the harvest right. There seems to be a lot of glitches with the newer harvest right. I bought the cube because of the customer service of my harvest right. I haven't tried it yet.
I just got my harvest right last November, no issues or glitches. Not saying it’s better just saying no issue
I agree about the HR customer service being bad.
I'd like updates on your experience. Knock-offs generally do better since they didn't have to go through the research and development as the original. I think HR is going to pave the way for many more freeze dryers since all of their patents are now expiring.
@@Philat4800feet As much as I can I will update you. One thing you might not know is the interior of the cube isn't square and the rack has legs so there is considerable space around the trays for ice. The pictures don't show that. HR may come up with new innovations but they need to work on their customer service. Mine is 2017 and the people I talk to don't have a clue about my harvest right. I also found they don't have parts for it or the other accessories like the oiless pump. My biggest concern with the cube is the pump being inside the case. On the HR I can buy other pumps if needed but what do I do if the cubes pump goes out. I think that will be a problem.
@@Philat4800feet And so far HR is still the most for the least $$$
The age-old problem with the harvest right freeze dryer is that it breaks down and getting it repaired from the company which they totally give you a run around. After spending over $4500 and mine not working close to a year I’m still not using it for the fact Harvest Right does not repair the machines and it breaks down on a regular basis.
What are your issues?
It wouldn’t heat and it ran forever and wouldn’t shut off
@@Thisisit120so what's your synopsis? I've ran into some extra cash. And I'm ready to pull the trigger. Which one?
I think your totally right. Plus they are way more expensive.
I'm curious if you would review the Blue Alpine freeze dryer. I think its a new company & made in USA. I've search for many hours but can only find one You Tube video posted from the company. Also, no review on it. They look very promising & am considering buying one.
I remember a high school physics lab where our teacher heated a square olive (or veggie?) oil can over a bunsen burner. Sealed it and took it off the heat. Then plunged it in an ice water bath. It crumpled like an elephant sat on it. (This was not a thin can)
This was my favorite experiment as well.
I’d like your opinion on comparing a Stay Fresh with Harvest Right.
Close to the same:
ua-cam.com/video/3OTw4gIjO2s/v-deo.html
You nailed it. I immediately had the same thoughts on the absurdity of putting the vacuum pump inside the cabinet adding that much heat right next to a condenser whose sole job is to remove heat from the chamber. Common sense would tell you that it would drastically reduce the efficiency of the condenser, and drastically shorten the life span of both the condenser and vacuum pump. What nimrods designed this thing? I never thought about the chamber design which I agree with your points as well as even the harvest right with much more chamber surface area for ice at times will accumulate much more ice than I like to see with certain batches.
Agreed.
They should take you seriously. I had one in my cart ready for purchase until I saw this review.. Almost 6k.. I’ll be going with the HR.. thank you…😊
1.) As for the square, I understand about a circle having better pressure management than a square, but 500mTors is roughly only about 10 pounds of pressure. I would feel like a metal square is engineered to handle 10 pounds of pressure. This isn't something that is needing to be crazy strong, just strong enough to handle the work it is set forth to accomplish.
2.) The space between the sides for ice to build up is a super good point...
3.)
I also asked about the pump and found out from East Texas Homesteading:
The pump that is used here is by Scroll Labs Technology, and It's a dry scroll vacuum pump. Here's the info I got from it. Patent protected Floating Scroll Technology, Uncontaminated flow, No contamination of the media due to oil-free operation, No tip seal or PTFE dust, Maintenance-free, No tip seal or diaphragm, High performance and long product life, Compact size and high level of gas tightness, Very quiet and low vibration, Can operate in any installed position, Startup against air or vacuum.
The pump has only one moving part which is the scroll and I can tell you this from operating it, that it produces almost no heat which tells me that there's no friction and less wear and tear. So I see why the company feels that these vacuum pumps will last a while.
edit: I also want to say thank you for putting this out and giving your option! The perspective is really good and I value it!
You have some great information. Many other FD have square chambers as well.
10 lbs of pressure over every square inch, which adds up to tons! 10 lbs won't dish 3/4" acrylic, but 1 1/4 tons will.
@@2fathomsdeeper I am no pressure engineer, but physics doesn't works like that. 10psi doesn't somehow get multiplied into tons....
@@Philat4800feet I am not as mechanically inclined as you, but I hope the pump information was useful.
@@AddictOfLearning Yes it does! 10lbs per square inch x surface area. That adds up real quick! That's why you have so much pressure on the components.
The things you are saying make sense, I have no experience with either of the brands. But I watch a few channels. and one of them does own the cube and he seems to like it, No idea if it will hold up long term or not. But so far it seems to be doing well.
Time will tell on most products. My wife just tossed her Montgomery Wards make-up mirror after 50 years.
If it is the channel I'm thinking of, he was sponsored the thing. I've yet to see any reviews from people who bought one with their own money.
Thanks for these videos. I would love to chat with you sometime. I would love 2 more cents. ;)
Oh snap! Been wondering when some real reviews on the Cube and the StayFresh would come out.
Great point about the lack of space for ice. No way could I do a gallon of raw milk in the cube.
Yup
Has anyone seen a comparison on actual results???
My comments are from observation, drawings from the manufacture, and interviews with their technical staff.
Have u seen that lanphan brand? Looks like they literally copied the harvest right but it just looks junkier, they have a YT channel if ur curious.
It's sad that when a good product hits the market, others (most likely China) will make knockoffs.
@@Philat4800feet yup
Why do these freeze dryer's companies come out of Utah? If they wanted to compete with HR you'd think there price would be closer.
LDS community is their primary customer focus.
Lots of prepers
Phil my thought the oil less pump. It will work fine till warranty up. Then because of your thoughts on it. It will need to rebuild or replaced. Best guess we’ll over $1,000 to $2000 for a new pump. This will be the owner responsibility. It’s expensive to start with because of the oil less pump. It’s weakest fault for sure. Bill
and being an internal pump id not be surprised to find out that youd have to send it into the company for repairs vs repairing it yourself at home.
Good points
I am glad Harvest Right is starting to get competition. There is also A new unit called D- Freeze. It looks promising...I purchased my HR freeze dryer back in 2017 and whenever I had a problem with the unit I seldom called their customer service. I don’t want to besmirch HR but not everyone working there is an asset to the company.
Competition is good. However, if a company doesn't continue to inavate they'll go the way of the buggy whip.