Why would I jump there? That’ll probably be the bit I’m least interested in! 😂 Everyone knows what behringer have done, and your own moral take on it is your own. I’m far more interested in the other great info this hour is packed with, not personal moral takes. 😂
@@Piplodocushe’s not demanding you jump to it, he’s time stamping for people who are interested. And guaranteed they’ll be more for than not. TGR even used it for the thumbnail. They know as well as you do it’s what sold this episode
The one time I saw Andy Timmons was a clinic he did at Gear Fest. Sat literally right in front of his amp and it was the greatest guitar tone I’ve ever heard. Incredible.
All I’ll say is, if Behringer are helping musicians create music then good on them. They’re making money at the same time as helping others. They cloned the TB303 and it’s pretty damn good.
When I saw Behringer ToneBender, I went into argument online, that this is waaayyy on the edge, with the name and looks and what not. And to prove, that I do as I say, I aquired Mk1 Tonebender from Macari's. And oh my giddy aunt, that pedal is UNREAL.
Have one of those as well, yep, it’s incredible. Even Macaris pushed the boat out doing the Frankenbender, but it’s their brand, they can do what they want right? And those things sound awesome!!
It's weird that they make Dan sit outside, but the cleanliness & lack of reflections on the glass door to the back patio that Dan's the other side of is genuinely staggering.
The behringer launch video for the centaur od gives a history and flowers to the original pedal and it’s creator which I thought it was cool. They’ve been doing that with all their synth stuff. Not sure what that means as far as morality or if they talked to the creator of it first but as of now I’m all for it
I'm okay with exact clones as long as the original stakeholders aren't getting screwed. I will admit I have a LOT of Behringer gear due to price/performance considerations, like all the Synths (I do mean all of them), mixing panels (along with a Midas M-32), all of the discontinued pedals from their regular line (some 50+), all of the new "Clone Pedals" (at least the ones currently available, I'm waiting on the Octave Divider, Centaur, and Fuzz Bender). Do not get me wrong, I have plenty of expensive pedals, for example all of the Strymon, Source Audio, Universal Audio, Fulltone, Eventide, Boss, EHX, Line 6, TCElectronic, Keeley and on and on (100's of them), so I'm not a cheapskate. I do find Behringer products to be generally fine and will continue to buy what interests me. I'm not interested in their new Spring Reverb as spring is my least favorite and I have a dozen other reverb pedals plus the "real" reverb in my Fender Deluxe Reverbs (three, including a hand-wired '64), but I digress. I'm not the least bit interested in getting into the "Behringer" argument. People have their unmovable opinions although there are an awful lot of ignorant opinionated people out there. I've seen my share of complete jackasses!
The small klon enclosures are available for quite some time now in the diy world. But they are quite pricey so smaller companies probably couldn't justify using them.
Love the idea of the Behringer Baby Klon, with that somewhat art deco look on a board, especially with those of us who would never and could never really warrant spending £2K on a pedal. We all know Behringer isn’t a Klon & could never be. But if you look at what Behringer have done with their Moog based gear, and how good a job they have done with it, to the degree that it has actually created an upturn for Moog themselves, with the re-introduction of new Moogs. Sometimes what a company like Behringer can do, can actually mean we might actually kick start the upmarket originals coming back, maybe with another new something else. So yep, I think Behringer are okay doing this. Had it been anyone else, it might be different. But Behringer generally do a very good job, just quite cheaply. With their Centaur Overdrive it gives that bit of style in a cute little package. I almost don’t mind if it does or doesn’t do what it’s supposed to. I suppose it’s the slightly tongue in cheek way they do stuff. And yes this one really is perhaps cheekier than most.
JHS Josh did a great video on clones a few years back. He emphasised how the copying of trade dress which irked him. Personally I'm somewhat in two minds. 1. I like buying the original of something where I can, as I find a lot of the time if a pedal has been in production for 30+ years there's a good reason why 2. I think back to being a young kid I wish I could of bought these cheap Joyo/tone city/Nux for little money and I fully understand if someone (at any age) can't spend a lot of money thus gets a cheaper clone. I think with a lot of things transparency is key if something is a clone or influenced by something. We don't want to end up with gooped cheap pedals passed on as boutique originals, wonder who would do that 🤔🤣
My pet peeve on clones are the people who put out "Dumble" pedals, like there is such a thing as "A Dumble". Every amp Alexander Dumble built was built for a specific player, not some general amp type. No one can build you a Dumble other than Mr. Dumble, who, unfortunately, is no longer with us.
I think native Chinese pedal companies like DemonFX are far more clumsy copying stuff, its utterly clear what pedal it's supposed to be. They also copy stuff currently for sale, the example that comes to mind is the EQD Ghost Echo. DFX copies the graphic completely and calls it the Ghast Echo.
Those chinese clone pedals are mostly bought by people in third world countries. The non privileged peoples of the world that don't earn in dollars or euros can't afford to buy original boutique pedals.
I bought a 68 Pedals King of Clone. I wanted the real deal, but Analogman can't (or won't) supply the market demand and I refuse to fill the pockets of eBay and Reverb flippers. If I could buy the Analogman version and have it delivered tomorrow, I would have handed over my $350 without hesitation. So I asked myself one important question: would buying a clone harm the Analogman business? I concluded that, in this case, the clones are actually increasing the hype surrounding the real thing and perversely *increasing* Mike's business with more joining the crazy queue. FWIW, the 68 Pedals version is not a cheap knock-off, but a meticulous copy and it sounds great. It also has two dip switches so you can choose to enable or disable the higher gain option on either side. I pretty much agree that the King of Tone model in my HX Stomp is basically no different in terms of being a straight copy. FWIW, I bought my Clone before the collaboration with MXR.
Your whole reply i was going to suggest two of the MXR minis, glad you mentioned that qualifier at the end haha. I am in agreement with you. At this point getting a KOT is effectively unobtainable.
WASSUP LegEnds! It may be an ordinary Thursday over there across the pond, but here in the USA, previously known as the Colony... we are indeed preparing for the grand Feast. I even made a Bobby Flay bourbon infused whipped cream pumpkin pie with an oatmeal cinnamon crunch crumble for the top! I love creating, not just music, but even with food, though I'm mostly looking forward to some free time this weekend to move them pant legs with some of them waves coming out of my speaker cabs! Wishing you all the best.... and see you in the chats! 😎🎸🤘🦃🍗🥧🍴
I think it's important to remember that circuits cannot be copyrighted, and neither can physical designs. They can be patented, but patents have a finite lifespan, so there's no way anyone can claim that the design of the Sola Sound Fuzz Bender is in any way protectable. That being said, on a personal level, I find it gauche to so blatantly copy the design. The Klon Centaur is a another good example, having been first made in 1994. It's 30 years old, and any patents that would have applied to the circuit or the physical design are long since expired, but Behringer really should not have named their pedal "Centaur", in my opinion. Trade marks and trade dress fall under different facets of IP law, and are perpetually protectable, provided they remain in use. However, Bill Finnegan stopped manufacturing pedals in 2008, so 16 years later, it's a bit difficult to claim trade mark or trade dress protections.
I mean I know things like the klon are great and all. But there’s loads of quality clones already and I’m not that fussed. I’m still most likely to get the good old wampler clone if I will. I’m far more excited this week that Subdecay have released a starlight mk3 and implements loads of stuff I love from my “unobtainuim” long-discontinued starlight DLX I’ve worried for years about if anything happened to it. But the new one has midi clock and midi presets (I modded mine for external tap to run off a DAD smart clock to sync that up - dreamed of midi clock!), but the new one is digital, not analogue with BBD chips. So how do they compare? That’s what I care about! But I’m clearly not your average pedal geek. I clearly live in a world of amp tones and weird pedals and how I can make original sounds, not ways to over overdrive my amp in slightly different ways. So clones have a place, but I never seem to be chasing yet another clone of something. I’m more worried about replacing weird shit that no one is cloning. If you want weird ring mods, PLLs (although EQD scratched that itch with the data corrupter), or strange frostwave or subdecay things that are no longer made, that’s where I want/need clones!
@@TheGigRigDanielI can happily gig with one of my amps and a delay pedal. So the point of switchers and pedals to me is to get mental and go from normal, to more effected, to gradually more off-piste in the easiest possible, most replicable, and easiest to get back to the root bad-ass riffage from me having gone too far. I don’t *need* any of it. But all that nonsense is more to make weird shit repeatable, or to get back to a sensible place. It’s the sonic equivalent of the Dave Brubeck Quartet. I can play a nice standard. But the joy is to gradually go as far off the rails as you can get, but you can press a button and you’re back to the tune for the outro! 😂
Back to the point of this video. People need morals. Buy stuff because you want to support someone who created that great thing. But equally, people need to search for their own tone and find something original and new. Not just try sound like what everyone has done before. Sure, be inspired. Take good gear influences and run with them. But take them somewhere new. Get those red pickups. Get a klon. But go take it somewhere else. The world is full of people just following other people, when ironically all those people were pioneers.
With the get this pedal and sound like this guy thing. Sometimes you would need a specific pedal to get even close. For example J Mascis and a big muff.
That’s a great point and is very true. I guess my problem with it is that the pedals companies that use that tactic never say, buy a big muff and sound like J Mascis, they say’ we’ve cracked the secret to J Mascis’s tone, all you need to do is buy this pedal’ so they’re trading off J Mascis. I struggle with that
I would love to go in the TPS comments and ask questions and talk about things, especially since I watch everything you guys upload and always have done, but some six or seven years ago Mick and I were both having bad days and I said something along the lines of, "SRV ain't all that," to which Mick replied by unilaterally, permanently blocking my comments from the channel. I've gone to the show's IG page and elsewhere to ask for my punishment to finally be lifted, but all I ever get from him is a like. Awful hard to continue to love your favorite show when half its crew goes out of its way to cancel you from it. Have a good one.
@ Well I had to ask anyway; now it’s out there and that you’ve both become privy maybe I can finally shut up about it lol Incidentally I’m halfway through the pickup episode right now. I can see the comments anyway, but I don’t look because when you can’t chime in, it can be upsetting every time like groundhogs day. Hey, nice one with the pickup set, congrats.
The clone problem is that these people have made things unobtainable and they didn't need to do that, now they don't like someone else doing it because it takes away the stigmatism that makes it expensive. Same with Dumble Amps. They can make a Dumble for the same price as any other amp but they won't. So I'll buy one from them, because they are the only ones who will make it for me and not take advantage of me, prey upon me.
That’s a good point. The Dumble thing is interesting after having spent some time with one. Have a search for the Dumble Contract which Alexander made his customers sign. It’s super interesting
@TheGigRigDaniel it's a slip of the tongue to say that and not understanding what it means, my mouth is a example of why the problem exists. Fundamentals being shifted, jeopardizing. Its not just dangerous but threatening, and my example is critical to not understanding what is going on. Not understanding what it represents, that they participate it what devours them. It takes a view to understand, a view from a trench of war, to wake up.
If someone is nice and clone... ehhh... capture a couple of settings that i like, i dont buy the pedal. Is that better? We don't have a problem with modellers and capturing the essence, the soul of the product but we do with a clone of product that's even out of production. If the interior is different the argument is just about cosmetics. To me that's the point when it's getting hypocritical. You can copy, clone capture everything, except the exterior. Seems like a typical contemporary discussion in the media - keep it superficial and don't touch the core and nature of the Problem that could be controversial. Behringer did it cause they can what others don't dare but would if they could stand the backlash. I would never buy an original Klone, to expensive and it's hard to buy a new one... of course. There are copy's of enclosures on the market more similar to the original than Behringers copy... ehh... clone, only the Print is more daring. To say the enclosure is "Iconic" is moral opinion and not question of law. Everything gets copied at a certain point and also without improving. Worse, most products in the world getting copied with cheaper materials, less build quality and more failures optically and also technically; and even mostly from the original builders. Adjust the cost in production means cutting corners where it's possible and get the as more cash as you can. Dans principle of improving to justify a cloning is morally nice, but nothing more and don't mach with the reality since ever of any industry, market and production. Well, it's maybe also a reflex about products coming from Asia, despite the fact that we westerners invented the method of spying, copying on the large industrial scale back in the 18th century.
Hi Dan. Why do you keep using the term inventive step. That is a phrase commonly associated with patent law. My understanding is that very little pedals are patent protected. They rely on trade dress, packaging, branding, logos etc for protection. So trade marks and competition law for legal, and tort of passing off for common law. Most don't even bother with circuit design layout protection. I havent searched the patent register but funnily enough the only pedal that i think could have a patent is the gigrig.😂
EDIT: Update. Searched the register. Found the gigrig parents. Application 0321553 in UK and 10937997 in USA. Well done. UK one expired. Been 20 years. None of the things you were mentioning during the pedal clone discussions were an inventive step (which was irrelevant as I don't think any of those pedals are patent protected anyway). It's a very high bar for an inventive step. Something like the gigrig. Definitely not just adding a switch to a pre existing circuit board like a lot of pedal clones do. I feel like you had some successful patents with the gigrig and now lawyer talk like inventive step has stuck with you.
Cheers John, yes, I mean inventive as in a creative step. Yes, it’s from working on patents so I don’t mean it to be such a high bar, but a creative step that adds an element that the original didn’t have. As discussed I’m not definitive on this, it’s just something I feel helps in differentiating from the original. Interesting topic 👍
@@TheGigRigDaniel Thanks Dan. I figured thats what you were meaning. Just something creative or some point of difference to the product. Congrats on the patent though thats rare for pedals and the gigrig deserves it.
26:05 for the Behringer Centaur OD chat
Why would I jump there? That’ll probably be the bit I’m least interested in! 😂 Everyone knows what behringer have done, and your own moral take on it is your own. I’m far more interested in the other great info this hour is packed with, not personal moral takes. 😂
@@Piplodocushe’s not demanding you jump to it, he’s time stamping for people who are interested. And guaranteed they’ll be more for than not.
TGR even used it for the thumbnail. They know as well as you do it’s what sold this episode
Thanks for answering my questions guys!! Love the show!
Thanks you! 🤓🙏
The one time I saw Andy Timmons was a clinic he did at Gear Fest. Sat literally right in front of his amp and it was the greatest guitar tone I’ve ever heard. Incredible.
All I’ll say is, if Behringer are helping musicians create music then good on them. They’re making money at the same time as helping others.
They cloned the TB303 and it’s pretty damn good.
When I saw Behringer ToneBender, I went into argument online, that this is waaayyy on the edge, with the name and looks and what not.
And to prove, that I do as I say, I aquired Mk1 Tonebender from Macari's. And oh my giddy aunt, that pedal is UNREAL.
Have one of those as well, yep, it’s incredible. Even Macaris pushed the boat out doing the Frankenbender, but it’s their brand, they can do what they want right? And those things sound awesome!!
It's weird that they make Dan sit outside, but the cleanliness & lack of reflections on the glass door to the back patio that Dan's the other side of is genuinely staggering.
Hi guys I bought a JHS not a Klon last Christmas for a gift for my son ,when it was built it sounds as good as my ktr lol 😂
Thanks for the Jeff Buckley discussion! Grace is one my favourite albums of all time
Dan here, mine too 👍
The behringer launch video for the centaur od gives a history and flowers to the original pedal and it’s creator which I thought it was cool. They’ve been doing that with all their synth stuff. Not sure what that means as far as morality or if they talked to the creator of it first but as of now I’m all for it
Yeah, their synth offering is wild! Also check out the Warm Aufio vintage mic clones, they’re fricken incredible!
I hope you can demonstrate the triple parallel reverb for us plleeeaassseee
Coming up soon on TPS 👍
@TheGigRigDaniel my man!!
I'm okay with exact clones as long as the original stakeholders aren't getting screwed. I will admit I have a LOT of Behringer gear due to price/performance considerations, like all the Synths (I do mean all of them), mixing panels (along with a Midas M-32), all of the discontinued pedals from their regular line (some 50+), all of the new "Clone Pedals" (at least the ones currently available, I'm waiting on the Octave Divider, Centaur, and Fuzz Bender). Do not get me wrong, I have plenty of expensive pedals, for example all of the Strymon, Source Audio, Universal Audio, Fulltone, Eventide, Boss, EHX, Line 6, TCElectronic, Keeley and on and on (100's of them), so I'm not a cheapskate. I do find Behringer products to be generally fine and will continue to buy what interests me. I'm not interested in their new Spring Reverb as spring is my least favorite and I have a dozen other reverb pedals plus the "real" reverb in my Fender Deluxe Reverbs (three, including a hand-wired '64), but I digress. I'm not the least bit interested in getting into the "Behringer" argument. People have their unmovable opinions although there are an awful lot of ignorant opinionated people out there. I've seen my share of complete jackasses!
The small klon enclosures are available for quite some time now in the diy world. But they are quite pricey so smaller companies probably couldn't justify using them.
Ya juked me lads!! Having a stream on a Thursday and on Thanksgiving no less!
Love the idea of the Behringer Baby Klon, with that somewhat art deco look on a board, especially with those of us who would never and could never really warrant spending £2K on a pedal. We all know Behringer isn’t a Klon & could never be. But if you look at what Behringer have done with their Moog based gear, and how good a job they have done with it, to the degree that it has actually created an upturn for Moog themselves, with the re-introduction of new Moogs. Sometimes what a company like Behringer can do, can actually mean we might actually kick start the upmarket originals coming back, maybe with another new something else. So yep, I think Behringer are okay doing this. Had it been anyone else, it might be different. But Behringer generally do a very good job, just quite cheaply. With their Centaur Overdrive it gives that bit of style in a cute little package. I almost don’t mind if it does or doesn’t do what it’s supposed to. I suppose it’s the slightly tongue in cheek way they do stuff. And yes this one really is perhaps cheekier than most.
Still no Cowboy King by Pedal Pawn. Come on guys, I depend on you for your unbiased unfiltered reviews! Thanks for all you do😊
I just think Behringer missed an opportunity to have some fun & be a bit clever with the name. Minitaur? Klonette? Diminitaur?
Yeah…it would have been marvelous!😅
3000 Chibsons bound for sale as Gibsons were just siezed at the Los Angeles seaport...
JHS Josh did a great video on clones a few years back. He emphasised how the copying of trade dress which irked him. Personally I'm somewhat in two minds. 1. I like buying the original of something where I can, as I find a lot of the time if a pedal has been in production for 30+ years there's a good reason why 2. I think back to being a young kid I wish I could of bought these cheap Joyo/tone city/Nux for little money and I fully understand if someone (at any age) can't spend a lot of money thus gets a cheaper clone. I think with a lot of things transparency is key if something is a clone or influenced by something. We don't want to end up with gooped cheap pedals passed on as boutique originals, wonder who would do that 🤔🤣
Yeah, it’s a good point. Kid goes on Amazon with £20, is able to buy a couple of cheap clones, has fun playing music, hard to argue with that 👍
My pet peeve on clones are the people who put out "Dumble" pedals, like there is such a thing as "A Dumble". Every amp Alexander Dumble built was built for a specific player, not some general amp type. No one can build you a Dumble other than Mr. Dumble, who, unfortunately, is no longer with us.
Yep, it’s a really tough one that 👍
I think native Chinese pedal companies like DemonFX are far more clumsy copying stuff, its utterly clear what pedal it's supposed to be. They also copy stuff currently for sale, the example that comes to mind is the EQD Ghost Echo. DFX copies the graphic completely and calls it the Ghast Echo.
And British Pedal Company 🤦
Those chinese clone pedals are mostly bought by people in third world countries. The non privileged peoples of the world that don't earn in dollars or euros can't afford to buy original boutique pedals.
Yes! Good point 👍
Any thoughts on the new obne Dark Star Stereo?
Ooh, nice! Will check it out, thanks so much 👍
Noice!
I bought a 68 Pedals King of Clone. I wanted the real deal, but Analogman can't (or won't) supply the market demand and I refuse to fill the pockets of eBay and Reverb flippers. If I could buy the Analogman version and have it delivered tomorrow, I would have handed over my $350 without hesitation. So I asked myself one important question: would buying a clone harm the Analogman business? I concluded that, in this case, the clones are actually increasing the hype surrounding the real thing and perversely *increasing* Mike's business with more joining the crazy queue. FWIW, the 68 Pedals version is not a cheap knock-off, but a meticulous copy and it sounds great. It also has two dip switches so you can choose to enable or disable the higher gain option on either side. I pretty much agree that the King of Tone model in my HX Stomp is basically no different in terms of being a straight copy. FWIW, I bought my Clone before the collaboration with MXR.
Yeah, it’s a great point, it’s great to be talking about 👍
Your whole reply i was going to suggest two of the MXR minis, glad you mentioned that qualifier at the end haha.
I am in agreement with you. At this point getting a KOT is effectively unobtainable.
WASSUP LegEnds! It may be an ordinary Thursday over there across the pond, but here in the USA, previously known as the Colony... we are indeed preparing for the grand Feast. I even made a Bobby Flay bourbon infused whipped cream pumpkin pie with an oatmeal cinnamon crunch crumble for the top! I love creating, not just music, but even with food, though I'm mostly looking forward to some free time this weekend to move them pant legs with some of them waves coming out of my speaker cabs! Wishing you all the best.... and see you in the chats! 😎🎸🤘🦃🍗🥧🍴
Hobo Roadie... is the Dream- Maker!😎🎸🤘
He really is 🙏🥰 thank you so much mate
I think it's important to remember that circuits cannot be copyrighted, and neither can physical designs. They can be patented, but patents have a finite lifespan, so there's no way anyone can claim that the design of the Sola Sound Fuzz Bender is in any way protectable. That being said, on a personal level, I find it gauche to so blatantly copy the design. The Klon Centaur is a another good example, having been first made in 1994. It's 30 years old, and any patents that would have applied to the circuit or the physical design are long since expired, but Behringer really should not have named their pedal "Centaur", in my opinion. Trade marks and trade dress fall under different facets of IP law, and are perpetually protectable, provided they remain in use. However, Bill Finnegan stopped manufacturing pedals in 2008, so 16 years later, it's a bit difficult to claim trade mark or trade dress protections.
Thanks mate, yeah, very interesting 👍
Blush is Pedal Partners❤
Behringer did not go too far. This small Klon was designed by Bill Finnegan himself. He is on the team and part of the marketing and promotion.
Awesome, thanks
I mean I know things like the klon are great and all. But there’s loads of quality clones already and I’m not that fussed. I’m still most likely to get the good old wampler clone if I will. I’m far more excited this week that Subdecay have released a starlight mk3 and implements loads of stuff I love from my “unobtainuim” long-discontinued starlight DLX I’ve worried for years about if anything happened to it. But the new one has midi clock and midi presets (I modded mine for external tap to run off a DAD smart clock to sync that up - dreamed of midi clock!), but the new one is digital, not analogue with BBD chips. So how do they compare? That’s what I care about! But I’m clearly not your average pedal geek. I clearly live in a world of amp tones and weird pedals and how I can make original sounds, not ways to over overdrive my amp in slightly different ways. So clones have a place, but I never seem to be chasing yet another clone of something. I’m more worried about replacing weird shit that no one is cloning. If you want weird ring mods, PLLs (although EQD scratched that itch with the data corrupter), or strange frostwave or subdecay things that are no longer made, that’s where I want/need clones!
That seems like a nice place to be. The creativity on offer with pedals is truly wonderful, well done for making use of it 🤓🙏
@@TheGigRigDanielI can happily gig with one of my amps and a delay pedal. So the point of switchers and pedals to me is to get mental and go from normal, to more effected, to gradually more off-piste in the easiest possible, most replicable, and easiest to get back to the root bad-ass riffage from me having gone too far. I don’t *need* any of it. But all that nonsense is more to make weird shit repeatable, or to get back to a sensible place. It’s the sonic equivalent of the Dave Brubeck Quartet. I can play a nice standard. But the joy is to gradually go as far off the rails as you can get, but you can press a button and you’re back to the tune for the outro! 😂
Back to the point of this video. People need morals. Buy stuff because you want to support someone who created that great thing. But equally, people need to search for their own tone and find something original and new. Not just try sound like what everyone has done before. Sure, be inspired. Take good gear influences and run with them. But take them somewhere new. Get those red pickups. Get a klon. But go take it somewhere else. The world is full of people just following other people, when ironically all those people were pioneers.
Anyone else having issues downloading the new G3 update file? Chrome opens a window and it immediately closes even eith pop-ups enabled.
Hi 👋 we haven’t heard of any issues this end. If the problem persists please email us support@thegigrig.com 👍
With the get this pedal and sound like this guy thing. Sometimes you would need a specific pedal to get even close. For example J Mascis and a big muff.
That's not near specific enough! Which version of which of the dozen or so models?! 😂
@bucklberryreturns any of them will get you closer than not a big muff circuit.
That’s a great point and is very true. I guess my problem with it is that the pedals companies that use that tactic never say, buy a big muff and sound like J Mascis, they say’ we’ve cracked the secret to J Mascis’s tone, all you need to do is buy this pedal’ so they’re trading off J Mascis. I struggle with that
I would love to go in the TPS comments and ask questions and talk about things, especially since I watch everything you guys upload and always have done, but some six or seven years ago Mick and I were both having bad days and I said something along the lines of, "SRV ain't all that," to which Mick replied by unilaterally, permanently blocking my comments from the channel. I've gone to the show's IG page and elsewhere to ask for my punishment to finally be lifted, but all I ever get from him is a like. Awful hard to continue to love your favorite show when half its crew goes out of its way to cancel you from it. Have a good one.
Hi Craig, sorry to hear that. One thing we try very hard to do on TPS is cultivate a positive vibe. Might be that a tough day as had by all.
@ Well I had to ask anyway; now it’s out there and that you’ve both become privy maybe I can finally shut up about it lol Incidentally I’m halfway through the pickup episode right now. I can see the comments anyway, but I don’t look because when you can’t chime in, it can be upsetting every time like groundhogs day. Hey, nice one with the pickup set, congrats.
Am I the only one here feeling nervous with that Klon hanging on top of his leg all that time?
The clone problem is that these people have made things unobtainable and they didn't need to do that, now they don't like someone else doing it because it takes away the stigmatism that makes it expensive. Same with Dumble Amps. They can make a Dumble for the same price as any other amp but they won't. So I'll buy one from them, because they are the only ones who will make it for me and not take advantage of me, prey upon me.
That’s a good point. The Dumble thing is interesting after having spent some time with one. Have a search for the Dumble Contract which Alexander made his customers sign. It’s super interesting
@TheGigRigDaniel it's a slip of the tongue to say that and not understanding what it means, my mouth is a example of why the problem exists. Fundamentals being shifted, jeopardizing. Its not just dangerous but threatening, and my example is critical to not understanding what is going on. Not understanding what it represents, that they participate it what devours them. It takes a view to understand, a view from a trench of war, to wake up.
The Rataur....
Would love a list of Dan’s sleeper original drive pedals
I can do this 🤓👍
Ehm, British Pedal Company, Ehm ....
Good point! Cheers mate, hope you’re awesome 🙌
If someone is nice and clone... ehhh... capture a couple of settings that i like, i dont buy the pedal. Is that better? We don't have a problem with modellers and capturing the essence, the soul of the product but we do with a clone of product that's even out of production. If the interior is different the argument is just about cosmetics. To me that's the point when it's getting hypocritical. You can copy, clone capture everything, except the exterior. Seems like a typical contemporary discussion in the media - keep it superficial and don't touch the core and nature of the Problem that could be controversial.
Behringer did it cause they can what others don't dare but would if they could stand the backlash. I would never buy an original Klone, to expensive and it's hard to buy a new one... of course. There are copy's of enclosures on the market more similar to the original than Behringers copy... ehh... clone, only the Print is more daring.
To say the enclosure is "Iconic" is moral opinion and not question of law. Everything gets copied at a certain point and also without improving. Worse, most products in the world getting copied with cheaper materials, less build quality and more failures optically and also technically; and even mostly from the original builders. Adjust the cost in production means cutting corners where it's possible and get the as more cash as you can. Dans principle of improving to justify a cloning is morally nice, but nothing more and don't mach with the reality since ever of any industry, market and production.
Well, it's maybe also a reflex about products coming from Asia, despite the fact that we westerners invented the method of spying, copying on the large industrial scale back in the 18th century.
Hi Dan. Why do you keep using the term inventive step. That is a phrase commonly associated with patent law. My understanding is that very little pedals are patent protected. They rely on trade dress, packaging, branding, logos etc for protection. So trade marks and competition law for legal, and tort of passing off for common law. Most don't even bother with circuit design layout protection. I havent searched the patent register but funnily enough the only pedal that i think could have a patent is the gigrig.😂
EDIT: Update. Searched the register. Found the gigrig parents. Application 0321553 in UK and 10937997 in USA. Well done. UK one expired. Been 20 years. None of the things you were mentioning during the pedal clone discussions were an inventive step (which was irrelevant as I don't think any of those pedals are patent protected anyway). It's a very high bar for an inventive step. Something like the gigrig. Definitely not just adding a switch to a pre existing circuit board like a lot of pedal clones do. I feel like you had some successful patents with the gigrig and now lawyer talk like inventive step has stuck with you.
Cheers John, yes, I mean inventive as in a creative step. Yes, it’s from working on patents so I don’t mean it to be such a high bar, but a creative step that adds an element that the original didn’t have. As discussed I’m not definitive on this, it’s just something I feel helps in differentiating from the original. Interesting topic 👍
@@TheGigRigDaniel Thanks Dan. I figured thats what you were meaning. Just something creative or some point of difference to the product. Congrats on the patent though thats rare for pedals and the gigrig deserves it.