There are a few questions about the start, where the voiceover disagrees with the graphic about the number of guests necessary for overcrowding. The graphic is correct: There need to be 10 or more guests on a tile (which excludes the guest that evaluates the tile that it is going to walk onto) for it to count as being overcrowded.
@@iododendron3416 yeah that'd actually be a more practical version of this solution because it'd be automatic and also wouldn't kill your park rating since guests falling into the void are considered to be just leaving the park and not dying
I thought Marcel would say something like "build a 1-tile maze with its exit leading to pathless underground so you can remove the guests by making them fall into the void, thus solving the overcrowding issue." Perhaps I watched too many Marcel Vos's videos, which I think is a good thing.
My point was mainly that if you're playing Amity Airfield, and you need 3000 guests, dropping a bunch of guests into the void solves overcrowding problem but makes it harder to reach the goal.
I'm so glad I was at the stream yesterday where Marcel taught us all how to mod the game to say "Hire new Furry" instead of "Entertainer". By the way, Splash Boats are godlike for keeping guests off of the paths. Very high capacity boats, tons of boats in general, and usually longer ride times than things like coasters since they move slowly most of the time. Just don't make them *too* long, or guests will start to complain that they want to get off the ride, and no amount of Furries will fix that!
Personally I tend to place the exits on very popular rides in a way that forces the guests into a less crowded area of the park. Generally, just don't place the exit on very popular rides next to the entrance.
Yeah, that's what I do, too. It's a great way to control the flow of traffic and send guests in the direction of other rides and stalls I may want them to check out.
@@HealthySkepticism1775 I’ve noticed nauseous guests will often grab food to help feel better. Salty food stalls, bathrooms, benches, trash cans, and a designated handyman are all key amenities downstream of my big rides.
Yep, i use this method also a lot, When you place the entrance and exit next to each other, for example a popular coaster you will get in a split second a lot of guests stepping out of the entrance, making the few path tiles around it overcrowded. It also causes troubles with the queue line, since a lot of the guests will ride the coaster again, and when it's next to it, they immediately go for it, and half of them cant enter the queueline, or if they can, they immediately fill the line up, preventing other guests to ride it. If i place the exit on the opposite side, and make sure the guests have to walk a while to re-enter the queue, they have some time to spread a little, and chances are that they all can enter the line, and are not preventing other guests riding it. Also, making sure that the paths are somewhat logic connected, ive made so many times the mistake to lead the exits of 3 popular rides to the same place, with the entrances on an other location at the same place, making 2 hotspots for overcrowding, spreading these locations really helps.
I wonder if they can fix this in openRCT2. For example, if a guest complains about overcrowding and is in a double wide path, they will move to an adjacent tile that is not overcrowded
Biggest thing I see people not doing is smart placement of the entrance queue. Some rides have low throughput and aren't usually sought out, like gentle flat rides. Some have a high throughput but aren't sought out, like the double-deck observation tower and splash boats. And some of course have either high or low but are still sought out, like most roller coasters and the thrill rides. If it's a high-throughput and high-capacity ride, like coasters and splash boats, put them on a corner tile. Then pair it up with a high-capacity ride that doesn't usually get sought-out, like the double observation or double carousel, and put it on the adjacent corner. Then it you really want to crank it up, flank either of those entrance queues with two decent flat rides that are mid-high draw, like some twist clones and enterprises. Next, tuck an info kiosk in the corner with the storefront facing both the first two lines on the corner, and on either side of it, place a food and beverage stall. I've noticed that only sometimes will peeps enter a line if it's on a straight path they can walk by, but if it's a corner they have to turn, they will often times proceed straight into a queue line or turn into the other one rather than breeze past both, as long as one of the rides meets their preferences. So with the above method, you'll have a stall on one side and a queue line on the other or two queue lines , with a total of four shop fronts and four queue lines on five path tiles. It's a very small chance any peep will proceed through this gauntlet without not only getting in a line, but often times buy a park map or consumable on the way. The food/drink stall also serve as magnets for traffic, as hungry/thirsty peeps will head towards them, encountering at least one queue line, and then three more if they don't turn back and go the other way. The info kiosk of course works best when it is contacting as many tiles as it can, so always putting it in the corner here I've found is the best configuration. This also applies to souvenir shops in general minus the umbrella; if you have a corner and can't fit rides but can fit a shop, never put a food/drink stall on the corner turn tile. They will seek those out anyway. Instead, reserve those spaces for balloon, hat, sunglasses stalls and the like so guests will bump into the impulse buy. This is especially useful if you cluster the three clothing stalls a bit near the entrance, then put less deeper into your park but increasing the balloon stalls as you go into your park, since they'll have already picked up the single souvis but will lose balloons from time-to-time. Bit long-winded but hope this helps!
When he put the path underground I was waiting for him to say, "and then you remove the path and let all your guests fall into the void, which doesn't impact your park rating."
i personally like to use one-way paths a lot, paired with 2-wide paths with fences between and a handful of connections so the guests all flow in the same direction rather then going all over the place bonus point: looks satisfying as well
Park design can generally prevent overcrowding. Using the hub and spoke model, with flat rides in the middle and coasters around the outside, gives guests multiple ways to get in and out of the park and to each major attraction. I also keep amenities like food and drinks evenly spread around the park and not all in one area.
2:17 This issue can be fixed by using no-entry sign on the left side and the other on the right side of a path, and guests will use the first path to go from left to right, and the second path from right to left. Basically creating a '''guest highway''. Generally guests only ''switch lanes'' if they want to go into a attraction or go to a stall. Works decently as long you know where to find the peak.
I remember making my park largely one-way only circuit and it seemed to solve my overcrowding issues at the time but I never went back to analyze and see how good it really was
Oh, another trick I like to use is to solve the problem of exit paths being too crowded when a large capacity coaster discharges its riders from the exit. Make a T-junction outside the exit with two paths leading down to the main drag. That cuts the hoard in half right at the get-go. I also like to put a first-aid stall right outside adjacent to the exit, as many sick guests will walk right in, displacing them from the stampede. Benches help here, too. On one ride I made an entire nested branching exit path that split into two, went downhill a bit, then each path splits again. It's funny to see the big mass of guests filter down through the different paths, like a Galton board! Use one way signs to prevent backflow.
Thanks! I'm following you from the USA, although I'm originally from Spain. Your vids are the best, and you have sent me down the memory lane on a wonderful game I thought I'd never get to play again.
I like to build a couple of high-capacity and long ride-time rides underground with a queue line as long as I can get away with. Splash boats work great for this - it doesn't need great stats, it's just a peep sink and a way to attract more guests and store them underground. I've also noticed the overcrowding when you open a new coaster. I tend to like that, it's a bit of an ego boost, and it tends to level out once the novelty wears off. Another suggestion if you're not going full capitalist mode is to just have some "nature walk" paths off to the side of the park, put some nice trees and scenery, toilets and maybe a stall or two, and it just gives more roaming space.
I’ve also found using no exit signs can help with overcrowding sometimes, since it allows you to control and restrict guest lanes or potentially direct them to a specific direction of path. In the double path with a fence example, you can have one stream going in one direction, the other stream the opposite, and it surprisingly works so long as not too many guests don’t want to go in one direction all at once.
Building additional paths & connections was always my go-to strategy for overcrowding when I was a kid, so I'm pretty happy this is a legitimate option! My brother and I referred to these additional paths as Crowd Dispersal Mechanisms, or CDM's
My solution is creating a long queve ride for all rollercoasters. I make the first two paths go underground so the rest is unseen. Then the final 2 pieces are going uphill to connect with ground level again. I hire an entertainer to patrol that queve line. It keeps guests happy and prevents them from feeling like they've waited for an eternity. It's an excellent way to create consistent cash flow without cluttering up your park and FORCING your guests to be happy !
I always liked making very long and straight underground walkways that connect the edges of a park. Useful and fun to create some underground accesses throughout the park!
Another idea that comes to mind is using transport rides to redistribute guests. If you have the space to build them and can take advantage of the unique characteristic that guests will never turn down a transport ride if it's free, then you can lure guests from a busy area onto a train that drops them off at a less busy area on the other side of the park.
A trick I use is also to not group larger coasters that have high capacity together. This prevents overcrowding at the exits and also near the entrances if they get popular (As Marcel said in the video, but multiplied by the number of coasters connected to the same small area of the park).
Don’t forget transport rides. If one area of the park is lacking guests despite it being built up, then transport rides can help distribute peeps from an overcrowded area to a rarely used one.
Built a chair lift in one of my latest parks in Rollercoaster Tycoon 1 Deluxe, it helped quite allot with moving many of the guests from the entrance further into the park. Having a long que also helped make the area less crowded. Ran it on max speed to make sure people didn't have to wait for too long (might get complaints otherwise that they been waiting forever for chair lift 1).
One method I've used to pretty great success is by abusing No Entry signs. Making a park in to a circuit and placing them at the end of an exit path of a ride keeps people moving in a single direction. It doesn't stop it completely but it puts a limit on how many people can be in a single space by preventing people from entering that space from too many angles
The similar thing that works really well with this is having two parallel circles with No Entry signs and regular intersections especially near ride exits, you set up the signs so the path of travel on each path is opposite so it allows guests to move in both directions and helpfully also splits the numbers across two paths even with RCT2s pathfinding.
After almost 2 decades of me struggling with this issue and desperately scrambling to find a way to fix it someone finally explains what to do. You just freed me of one of my biggest childhood gaming struggles.
The wide paths are treated as one path, most likely by nulling one of the sides as a place pedestrians can walk. The movement routine of peds is dependent on single lane paths: every step they take is in one of three random directions (they can't walk backwards). If you make big blobs of walkways, you should see them wander around in circles if I remember correctly. The pathing AI is practically nothing; it had to be to be efficient enough for thousands of bots.
One way that I noticed to help deal with the flood for a new ride is have backup rides to take those who get turned away once the line fills up, this was how I (unintentionally) mitigated the hundreds of guests flooding for Mine Cart Dash in my Extreme Heights, had some rides in the area that could take them, I had several other rides to absorb the excess. This could be a placebo effect, but at the same time it might not as I did notice a ride whose line was previously not that long get very long not too long after that. Thankfully that's an issue that you don't run into much outside of either Sandbox parks or Unlimited Funds parks.
My technique is to build a perimeter of paths surrounding any new roller coaster I build. I also do 1 way staircases on long and very busy staircases since guests slow down on them
Building a myriad of pathways, like shortcuts and alternate routes, also has the benefit of lowering the chance of guests getting lost when they want to go home. Started doing that where I'll just start connecting paths to others across the park and mitigating dead ends as much as possible, and I rarely had guests getting lost anymore
A personal favorite of mine to fight this is to make a Large Tram Monorail that starts at the entrance, and goes to the other side of the park. Sometimes more stops depending on the map. Not only does it hold a ton of bodies (which also means nice long queues without actually having long waits) it gets people out of the main walkways and disperses em rather nicely. I do recommend not just going directly up from the station though, giving a few flat bits to build up speed helps traverse hills greatly. Trains also works, but it tends to hold fewer folks while being more prone to getting in the way.
I'm amazed that you didn't suggest setting up rides that exit to the void to just flat out reduce the number of people in the park without hurting the park rating.
I build drains a really crowded area you make a path and put a do not enter sign. That way they drain out of the area some other area of the park. Along with long queues also, I make access penalties for new rides especially ones that have extreme excitement ratings because everybody wants to ride it so you had to go to one side of the park and walk through a maze a path to get to it then when they exit force them to somewhere else in the park. That way they cant just get back on the ride easily.
When I have overcrowding I usually build a transport ride to shuttle people from crowded areas to empty areas. I have short lines in the empty areas so they can't all wind up shuttling back to the crowded areas so easily. I do the same with shuttle roller coasters. Also, engineering your paths to take people further into the park when they exit works well too.
One method I usually do is with advertising. Whenever I open a new coaster on one side of the park and all the guests go to it, it leaves the other side of my park empty. To keep some guests in that side of the park, just advertise a great roller coaster to redistribute them.
Having guests exit rides more strategically helps. If you get them off a ride in a less crowded area, it disperses them rather than introduce them back into the already large crowds
I put benches everywhere, several underground connections(with benches too), I actually use the Monorails as a way to force guest to travel around the park by setting them on free. Long queue with entertainers and using all the corners of the maps to make an outside path that alleviates the center areas more. I make sure to build new rides further away from anything else as possible, bridges come in very handy most of the time.
Fun fact, the concept of using queues as buffer spaces to keep the main pathways of the park from getting too crowded isn't just an RCT concept, but quite a real one too. Defunctland's video on Disney's FastPass talks a lot about it.
Funny enough, it also applies in Cities: Skylines. Trucks won't pull over and park, they'll just clog the road. So you make a long, winding road just for them...
I did not unsubscribe to your channel and subbed again. Actually bought the game on steam and play it from time to time now. To bad the steam version has bugs that prevent me from finishing the campaign but it's still fun.
It's funny they think like 90's programming rather than actual people at a park. I added a double path thinking they'd be relieved and they go crazy like they don't know how to walk all of a sudden. Also having everything in square patterns in addition to long queue lines helps a lot.
I get overcrowding at ride exits too, if a high capacity ride discharges folks in a condensed discharge onto a path tile. I make sure they can immediately have left-or-right path options to head their separate ways and also position the exit along the station so the exiting riders don't come together to exit, but instead stay spread out in train-car order.
Thanks for the video. My issue right now is that I build paths to relieve the overcrowded issue, but then guests immediately start complaining that they can't find the exit or I get an award saying "most confusing layout." Ugh! Guess I'll try throughout changes on my rides and making sure all of them have adequate queue lines.
I build a network of underground paths and double wide paths (with fences and then delete the fences) but as 99% of my play is in sandbox mode, I don't bother worrying about it. But when guest counts do count, I use a plugin that keeps the guest count in check written by some guy who makes videos...:)
Given the stuff about transport rides, I've started building parks with free transport rides with 2 stations: one in a crowded part and one in a less crowded part. Some guests will get off the path to enter the queue, then are transported to another area that doesn't have crowding issues. It takes them by different rides so they keep spending money, but is a free way to get them off the path, either by into the queue or into the ride. Monorails are nice because of the high capacity, while I also like chairlifts because the guests are now in the queue and not on the path.
Hey @Marcel Vos, the graphic at the start of the video (0:28) show 10 and 11 marked as overcrowded but your narration mention that it has to be "more than 10", which means only the tile marked 11 should be overcrowded. Which one is correct? Thanks!
Well Marcel, I got a another tip for the overcrowding I wanna share: In a park If you run out of space in the middle of or above ground level, build underground too (Unless that entire space is already on bottom level) It’s another way besides with entertainers
What I like to to do for double-paths is have a space in between them and use no entry signs to make them one-way paths. The space in between gets used for connections between the two one-way paths that I put bathrooms or even queue line entrances on.
Using the map to highlight overcrowded areas and then zone those areas with entertainers is a quite efficient way to make use of your staff budget. Same is true for other guest complaints. Zone Handymen for complaints about trash, Mechanics if rides keep breaking down. ... Also handymen if guests are complaining about vandalism.
Good video as always, but I’ve noticed an inconsistency at 0:25. Your voiceover says more than 10 guests, but the graphic shows more than 9, so which one is it?
Oh you're right. It's the graphic on the screen that is correct, there need to be at least 10 guests on the tile that the guest in question is walking onto.
The more videos I see the more convinced I am we need a new pathfinder, one that can properly use boulevards and transport rides, and can give guests places they want to go rather than random bumbling.
Can we please do a video on guest pathing and how they locate the exit. I have parks where there is more than one entrance/exit and when they want to leave they won't just take the closest exit. Its very frustrating and can lead to them getting lost
One of the best ways to deal with the overcrowding is make small roundabouts especially near the entrance. What I would always do is do a 3x3 with the center empty and make it to where it was a one-way path and do the same on the opposite side but with the entrance and exit on opposite sides. I don't know why but this really helps.
I use the 1x3 hedge exploit maze as a muilti-tool: it efficiently attracts guests to the park, is easy to 3d-ize, and diverts guests to the paths connected to the exit. Also, because guests will always ride a free transport ride you can setup the paths so that guests accidentally stumble into the Q for transport. Have your transport drop people off in quartiles and wala, massive crowd management. I think guests also pathfind to bathrooms, so their positioning has a lot of utility. I also think they have infinite capacity... had 4k guest parks with 4 bathrooms and noone was complaining about not finding a toilet. Topic for another video- as is, anything that guests will pathfind to can serve to alleviate crowding issues. I usually set up my park so guests immediately collide with an info kiosk surrounded by branching paths going straight out from the kiosk. The lateral paths lead to transport rides which take the guests to a different quartile, all of which are still path-connected but the transport is basically a teleporter. I also spread out desirable coasters so that guests with their handy lil' maps will pathfind away from each other.
I always use rides that store a lot of guests like the 3d cinema, a twist and mostly exciting rides close to the exits of popular rides that attract the guests. I always create alternative exit paths with a medium pathway back to the main paths and use a no entrance sign. I'll use gentle rides only connected to the exit pathways to split the exiting guests so they'll get back on the main paths in smaller batches. Shops and toilets are also on these roads to devide large groups. I also use transport rides from the transport tab and rides such as the log flume or splash boats to transport large groups from exiting paths to other places in the park. I try to make a shortcut back to these rides so that they won't cross the entire park to go back because they will so a shortcut off the main path is preferred if possible. And entertainers and one way paths and fences :) *because the gentle rides aren't super popular in most cases, this way pays off for the few guests complaining they can't find a ride
If you don’t mind the constant notification, you could raise the the ride level two levels so that 1, the entrance queue line is maximized for a smaller amount of space taken but double the number of guests, and, 2. You can drop the guests from the exit rather than having the usual dedicated exit line.
3:33 "I once lost a thousand guests because it was overcrowded." Ah, so this is what people mean when they say, "Nobody ever goes there; it's too crowded!"
I never knew about highlighting the park Map. I typically don't do anything about overcrowding, either it'd specific tiles that I can't do anything about or it could be a pathfinder issue, which needs to be resolved by building am easy to digest path. A do not enter sign on ride exits work as well, to prevent unwanted foot access to a dead end path, as often enough overcrowding comes from Rollercoaster dumping riders on the paths.
2:07 "How do we prevent overcrowding from happening? There are three main methods" Me, a Marcel Vos fan: "Drowning, sending them into the void, locking them in a queue forever with furries?" Well, I got 1.5 right.
Always build paths in squares! Never do dead ends, the guest then can always go forwards because the path finding will navigate them forwards and it will also not get them lost or they will have to travel the same square twice... If you have to make a dead end use a No-entry sign. Build exits on main paths (this might introduce overcrowding issues when they exit the ride tough... not sure)... If you build a double sided path with a fence in the middle... Make them 1 way with 2 no entry signs... Put a Cashmachine at the start of the one-way and a load off stalls and a toilet on both sides this will make you money too :-) i call them power malls :-) You can use the Information kiosk in the middle of the 2 one ways and make use of the 2 sides.
Just curious, since you've posted some videos about Zoo Tycoon, would you ever consider doing a series on it? I've been struggling with trying to build a large zoo because no matter what I do, I end up with massive numbers of hungry and thirsty guests, even if I build plenty of restaurants and smaller picnic areas. So, I'd love to see something that might assist with placement and all that.
A plugin to convert wide paths into double paths would be good. Especially when that’s what you’re given in a scenario, or want to have the paths elevated. Otherwise you have to delete the current path, or tediously go into the tile editor. I wonder if it could be done with modifications to the path expander plugin. You’d have to add a way to specify direction. And then I like intersections of two double paths to have a little hole in the middle where the corners of the tiles meet up. It doesn’t change anything, but I think it looks nicer, and I can only do it with the tile inspector on each of the four pieces.
There are a few questions about the start, where the voiceover disagrees with the graphic about the number of guests necessary for overcrowding. The graphic is correct: There need to be 10 or more guests on a tile (which excludes the guest that evaluates the tile that it is going to walk onto) for it to count as being overcrowded.
Considering Marcel I thought he was gonna propose drowning guests as a possible "solution" lol
Or a ride where the guests are dropped i to the void.
@@iododendron3416 yeah that'd actually be a more practical version of this solution because it'd be automatic and also wouldn't kill your park rating since guests falling into the void are considered to be just leaving the park and not dying
Me too! Or the maze with the raised ground after the exit (a personal favorite)
That’s the final solution
I thought it was gonna be the maze exit drop to abyss
I thought Marcel would say something like "build a 1-tile maze with its exit leading to pathless underground so you can remove the guests by making them fall into the void, thus solving the overcrowding issue." Perhaps I watched too many Marcel Vos's videos, which I think is a good thing.
Well that's a problematic solution given how many scenarios have Guest count goals.
Modern problems require modern solutions!
It’s an aMazing solution tho!
@@bsmith9765 That's why you import more guests to cover the void-induced guests deficit.
My point was mainly that if you're playing Amity Airfield, and you need 3000 guests, dropping a bunch of guests into the void solves overcrowding problem but makes it harder to reach the goal.
I had no idea you could use a heatmap to find the location of the issues of your guests. Years later and RCT still blows my mind in its thoroughness.
I'm so glad I was at the stream yesterday where Marcel taught us all how to mod the game to say "Hire new Furry" instead of "Entertainer".
By the way, Splash Boats are godlike for keeping guests off of the paths. Very high capacity boats, tons of boats in general, and usually longer ride times than things like coasters since they move slowly most of the time. Just don't make them *too* long, or guests will start to complain that they want to get off the ride, and no amount of Furries will fix that!
Do you know if there's a link, or a vod for naming them furries? I want it so bad lol
I just saw it and laughed so hard, a good mod indeed!
@@Lumie_Moth You should be able to find it on his Twitch page. I'm sure he'll upload it to his VOD channel soon, too.
Darnit. If only it was possible to assign each splash boat its own furry to keep them from getting bored. They've got enough seats for it.
Ah, so he's done this before!
Had to laugh about 5:44 - 'Hire new Furry'. Nice small detail. 😂
Personally I tend to place the exits on very popular rides in a way that forces the guests into a less crowded area of the park. Generally, just don't place the exit on very popular rides next to the entrance.
Of course the exit of ride A should be near the entrance of ride B
And wise versa
Yeah, that's what I do, too. It's a great way to control the flow of traffic and send guests in the direction of other rides and stalls I may want them to check out.
@@HealthySkepticism1775 I’ve noticed nauseous guests will often grab food to help feel better. Salty food stalls, bathrooms, benches, trash cans, and a designated handyman are all key amenities downstream of my big rides.
@@jefffinkbonner9551 Salty food isn't a thing, all food is the same.
Yep, i use this method also a lot, When you place the entrance and exit next to each other, for example a popular coaster you will get in a split second a lot of guests stepping out of the entrance, making the few path tiles around it overcrowded. It also causes troubles with the queue line, since a lot of the guests will ride the coaster again, and when it's next to it, they immediately go for it, and half of them cant enter the queueline, or if they can, they immediately fill the line up, preventing other guests to ride it.
If i place the exit on the opposite side, and make sure the guests have to walk a while to re-enter the queue, they have some time to spread a little, and chances are that they all can enter the line, and are not preventing other guests riding it.
Also, making sure that the paths are somewhat logic connected, ive made so many times the mistake to lead the exits of 3 popular rides to the same place, with the entrances on an other location at the same place, making 2 hotspots for overcrowding, spreading these locations really helps.
Guest: "It's too crowded here"
Marcel: *smothers them with dancing furries*
Guest: "Much better"
Guests in RCT2: "It's too crowded here!"
Also guests in RCT2: "Walking at the other side of a wide path to prevent overcrowding? Are you insane?"
I wonder if they can fix this in openRCT2. For example, if a guest complains about overcrowding and is in a double wide path, they will move to an adjacent tile that is not overcrowded
The duality of man
So basically the "fast lane" on a highway.
Biggest thing I see people not doing is smart placement of the entrance queue.
Some rides have low throughput and aren't usually sought out, like gentle flat rides.
Some have a high throughput but aren't sought out, like the double-deck observation tower and splash boats.
And some of course have either high or low but are still sought out, like most roller coasters and the thrill rides.
If it's a high-throughput and high-capacity ride, like coasters and splash boats, put them on a corner tile. Then pair it up with a high-capacity ride that doesn't usually get sought-out, like the double observation or double carousel, and put it on the adjacent corner.
Then it you really want to crank it up, flank either of those entrance queues with two decent flat rides that are mid-high draw, like some twist clones and enterprises.
Next, tuck an info kiosk in the corner with the storefront facing both the first two lines on the corner, and on either side of it, place a food and beverage stall.
I've noticed that only sometimes will peeps enter a line if it's on a straight path they can walk by, but if it's a corner they have to turn, they will often times proceed straight into a queue line or turn into the other one rather than breeze past both, as long as one of the rides meets their preferences.
So with the above method, you'll have a stall on one side and a queue line on the other or two queue lines , with a total of four shop fronts and four queue lines on five path tiles. It's a very small chance any peep will proceed through this gauntlet without not only getting in a line, but often times buy a park map or consumable on the way.
The food/drink stall also serve as magnets for traffic, as hungry/thirsty peeps will head towards them, encountering at least one queue line, and then three more if they don't turn back and go the other way. The info kiosk of course works best when it is contacting as many tiles as it can, so always putting it in the corner here I've found is the best configuration.
This also applies to souvenir shops in general minus the umbrella; if you have a corner and can't fit rides but can fit a shop, never put a food/drink stall on the corner turn tile. They will seek those out anyway. Instead, reserve those spaces for balloon, hat, sunglasses stalls and the like so guests will bump into the impulse buy. This is especially useful if you cluster the three clothing stalls a bit near the entrance, then put less deeper into your park but increasing the balloon stalls as you go into your park, since they'll have already picked up the single souvis but will lose balloons from time-to-time.
Bit long-winded but hope this helps!
Great explanation
I put balloon and souvenir stalls directly opposite exit paths to coasters so the geusts hit the shop as they leave.
When he put the path underground I was waiting for him to say, "and then you remove the path and let all your guests fall into the void, which doesn't impact your park rating."
i personally like to use one-way paths a lot, paired with 2-wide paths with fences between and a handful of connections so the guests all flow in the same direction rather then going all over the place
bonus point: looks satisfying as well
Oh wow. I’ve never thought of one way paths side by side, but I can totally picture how to do that and must implement it now 😁
@@jefffinkbonner9551 good luck with it :)
Park design can generally prevent overcrowding. Using the hub and spoke model, with flat rides in the middle and coasters around the outside, gives guests multiple ways to get in and out of the park and to each major attraction. I also keep amenities like food and drinks evenly spread around the park and not all in one area.
You can also make a more simplified system and point ride entrance away from the main path, then build the path around it.
2:17 This issue can be fixed by using no-entry sign on the left side and the other on the right side of a path, and guests will use the first path to go from left to right, and the second path from right to left. Basically creating a '''guest highway''. Generally guests only ''switch lanes'' if they want to go into a attraction or go to a stall.
Works decently as long you know where to find the peak.
I remember making my park largely one-way only circuit and it seemed to solve my overcrowding issues at the time but I never went back to analyze and see how good it really was
5:00 I love how Marcel has called entertainers "furries" so much at this point the game has become self aware.
Glad to see they finally renamed the Entertainers back to their true name in the new openRCT build.
Oh, another trick I like to use is to solve the problem of exit paths being too crowded when a large capacity coaster discharges its riders from the exit. Make a T-junction outside the exit with two paths leading down to the main drag. That cuts the hoard in half right at the get-go. I also like to put a first-aid stall right outside adjacent to the exit, as many sick guests will walk right in, displacing them from the stampede. Benches help here, too. On one ride I made an entire nested branching exit path that split into two, went downhill a bit, then each path splits again. It's funny to see the big mass of guests filter down through the different paths, like a Galton board! Use one way signs to prevent backflow.
Oh that’s ingenious. Gonna need to try that now! 😊
Thanks! I'm following you from the USA, although I'm originally from Spain. Your vids are the best, and you have sent me down the memory lane on a wonderful game I thought I'd never get to play again.
I feel like this is not going to end well for the guests.
I'm impressed! No-one died.
I like to build a couple of high-capacity and long ride-time rides underground with a queue line as long as I can get away with. Splash boats work great for this - it doesn't need great stats, it's just a peep sink and a way to attract more guests and store them underground. I've also noticed the overcrowding when you open a new coaster. I tend to like that, it's a bit of an ego boost, and it tends to level out once the novelty wears off. Another suggestion if you're not going full capitalist mode is to just have some "nature walk" paths off to the side of the park, put some nice trees and scenery, toilets and maybe a stall or two, and it just gives more roaming space.
I’ve also found using no exit signs can help with overcrowding sometimes, since it allows you to control and restrict guest lanes or potentially direct them to a specific direction of path. In the double path with a fence example, you can have one stream going in one direction, the other stream the opposite, and it surprisingly works so long as not too many guests don’t want to go in one direction all at once.
Building additional paths & connections was always my go-to strategy for overcrowding when I was a kid, so I'm pretty happy this is a legitimate option! My brother and I referred to these additional paths as Crowd Dispersal Mechanisms, or CDM's
My solution is creating a long queve ride for all rollercoasters. I make the first two paths go underground so the rest is unseen. Then the final 2 pieces are going uphill to connect with ground level again. I hire an entertainer to patrol that queve line. It keeps guests happy and prevents them from feeling like they've waited for an eternity. It's an excellent way to create consistent cash flow without cluttering up your park and FORCING your guests to be happy !
TVs also help with long queues.
Note that the first path outside the entrance being sloped up into the entrance does reduce throughput a bit as the guests walk uphill more slowly.
Hello Marcel! Love your videos and I'm so excited to be so early on this video. You've inspired me to finally beat RTC after loving the game as a kid!
I always liked making very long and straight underground walkways that connect the edges of a park. Useful and fun to create some underground accesses throughout the park!
Another idea that comes to mind is using transport rides to redistribute guests. If you have the space to build them and can take advantage of the unique characteristic that guests will never turn down a transport ride if it's free, then you can lure guests from a busy area onto a train that drops them off at a less busy area on the other side of the park.
A trick I use is also to not group larger coasters that have high capacity together. This prevents overcrowding at the exits and also near the entrances if they get popular (As Marcel said in the video, but multiplied by the number of coasters connected to the same small area of the park).
Don’t forget transport rides. If one area of the park is lacking guests despite it being built up, then transport rides can help distribute peeps from an overcrowded area to a rarely used one.
Built a chair lift in one of my latest parks in Rollercoaster Tycoon 1 Deluxe, it helped quite allot with moving many of the guests from the entrance further into the park. Having a long que also helped make the area less crowded. Ran it on max speed to make sure people didn't have to wait for too long (might get complaints otherwise that they been waiting forever for chair lift 1).
@@SvengelskaBlondie Whover set the pre-built chairlifts in scenarios to less than max speed should be locked up for their crimes.
One method I've used to pretty great success is by abusing No Entry signs. Making a park in to a circuit and placing them at the end of an exit path of a ride keeps people moving in a single direction. It doesn't stop it completely but it puts a limit on how many people can be in a single space by preventing people from entering that space from too many angles
The similar thing that works really well with this is having two parallel circles with No Entry signs and regular intersections especially near ride exits, you set up the signs so the path of travel on each path is opposite so it allows guests to move in both directions and helpfully also splits the numbers across two paths even with RCT2s pathfinding.
After almost 2 decades of me struggling with this issue and desperately scrambling to find a way to fix it someone finally explains what to do.
You just freed me of one of my biggest childhood gaming struggles.
Would love a deep dive into why wide paths don't work but fence separated ones do!
The wide paths are treated as one path, most likely by nulling one of the sides as a place pedestrians can walk. The movement routine of peds is dependent on single lane paths: every step they take is in one of three random directions (they can't walk backwards). If you make big blobs of walkways, you should see them wander around in circles if I remember correctly.
The pathing AI is practically nothing; it had to be to be efficient enough for thousands of bots.
One way that I noticed to help deal with the flood for a new ride is have backup rides to take those who get turned away once the line fills up, this was how I (unintentionally) mitigated the hundreds of guests flooding for Mine Cart Dash in my Extreme Heights, had some rides in the area that could take them, I had several other rides to absorb the excess. This could be a placebo effect, but at the same time it might not as I did notice a ride whose line was previously not that long get very long not too long after that.
Thankfully that's an issue that you don't run into much outside of either Sandbox parks or Unlimited Funds parks.
My technique is to build a perimeter of paths surrounding any new roller coaster I build. I also do 1 way staircases on long and very busy staircases since guests slow down on them
I never knew that about the map icon indicating where the guests are having those thoughts. I always would just “go to” them. Thanks!
Building a myriad of pathways, like shortcuts and alternate routes, also has the benefit of lowering the chance of guests getting lost when they want to go home. Started doing that where I'll just start connecting paths to others across the park and mitigating dead ends as much as possible, and I rarely had guests getting lost anymore
A personal favorite of mine to fight this is to make a Large Tram Monorail that starts at the entrance, and goes to the other side of the park. Sometimes more stops depending on the map. Not only does it hold a ton of bodies (which also means nice long queues without actually having long waits) it gets people out of the main walkways and disperses em rather nicely. I do recommend not just going directly up from the station though, giving a few flat bits to build up speed helps traverse hills greatly.
Trains also works, but it tends to hold fewer folks while being more prone to getting in the way.
0:51 Lmao the staff names xD
I'm amazed that you didn't suggest setting up rides that exit to the void to just flat out reduce the number of people in the park without hurting the park rating.
I build drains a really crowded area you make a path and put a do not enter sign. That way they drain out of the area some other area of the park. Along with long queues also, I make access penalties for new rides especially ones that have extreme excitement ratings because everybody wants to ride it so you had to go to one side of the park and walk through a maze a path to get to it then when they exit force them to somewhere else in the park. That way they cant just get back on the ride easily.
When I have overcrowding I usually build a transport ride to shuttle people from crowded areas to empty areas. I have short lines in the empty areas so they can't all wind up shuttling back to the crowded areas so easily. I do the same with shuttle roller coasters.
Also, engineering your paths to take people further into the park when they exit works well too.
i love how i played this game like 20 years ago and your showing me something i never knew about
One method I usually do is with advertising. Whenever I open a new coaster on one side of the park and all the guests go to it, it leaves the other side of my park empty. To keep some guests in that side of the park, just advertise a great roller coaster to redistribute them.
Today I learned about the Quantum's Edge scenario.
Today I also learned that I'd love to see Marcel play through the Quantum's Edge scenario.
I love how you used the word "brainwashing" while promoting more entertainers XD
I want to see Marcel play Quantum's Edge now! That's such a cool-looking scenario!
Having guests exit rides more strategically helps. If you get them off a ride in a less crowded area, it disperses them rather than introduce them back into the already large crowds
I put benches everywhere, several underground connections(with benches too), I actually use the Monorails as a way to force guest to travel around the park by setting them on free. Long queue with entertainers and using all the corners of the maps to make an outside path that alleviates the center areas more. I make sure to build new rides further away from anything else as possible, bridges come in very handy most of the time.
Fun fact, the concept of using queues as buffer spaces to keep the main pathways of the park from getting too crowded isn't just an RCT concept, but quite a real one too. Defunctland's video on Disney's FastPass talks a lot about it.
Funny enough, it also applies in Cities: Skylines. Trucks won't pull over and park, they'll just clog the road. So you make a long, winding road just for them...
I did not unsubscribe to your channel and subbed again. Actually bought the game on steam and play it from time to time now. To bad the steam version has bugs that prevent me from finishing the campaign but it's still fun.
0:51 his entertainers are called furries
It's funny they think like 90's programming rather than actual people at a park. I added a double path thinking they'd be relieved and they go crazy like they don't know how to walk all of a sudden.
Also having everything in square patterns in addition to long queue lines helps a lot.
If you want to double up paths u need a fence/scenery item down the middle or guests get confused
Entertainers started as the underdog being seen as useless, yet they become the hero of most videos now.
I get overcrowding at ride exits too, if a high capacity ride discharges folks in a condensed discharge onto a path tile. I make sure they can immediately have left-or-right path options to head their separate ways and also position the exit along the station so the exiting riders don't come together to exit, but instead stay spread out in train-car order.
Thanks for bring great entertainment while I'm stuck in the hospital kind sir!
Thanks for the video. My issue right now is that I build paths to relieve the overcrowded issue, but then guests immediately start complaining that they can't find the exit or I get an award saying "most confusing layout." Ugh! Guess I'll try throughout changes on my rides and making sure all of them have adequate queue lines.
I build a network of underground paths and double wide paths (with fences and then delete the fences) but as 99% of my play is in sandbox mode, I don't bother worrying about it. But when guest counts do count, I use a plugin that keeps the guest count in check written by some guy who makes videos...:)
0:48 - Wait!!! They can do that?!?! It looks so cute! 😂
Given the stuff about transport rides, I've started building parks with free transport rides with 2 stations: one in a crowded part and one in a less crowded part. Some guests will get off the path to enter the queue, then are transported to another area that doesn't have crowding issues. It takes them by different rides so they keep spending money, but is a free way to get them off the path, either by into the queue or into the ride. Monorails are nice because of the high capacity, while I also like chairlifts because the guests are now in the queue and not on the path.
As a furry, I wholeheartedly approve of using us as guest entertainers in RCT2. :P
Hey @Marcel Vos, the graphic at the start of the video (0:28) show 10 and 11 marked as overcrowded but your narration mention that it has to be "more than 10", which means only the tile marked 11 should be overcrowded. Which one is correct? Thanks!
0:23 Don't you mean "if there are more than 9 guests", or "10 or more", since 10 is not "more than 10"
The easiest way to battle overcrowding for me is, lead all the patrons to a lake area, and close the park. then drown all of them and reopen the park
I honestly thought you were gonna say “just drop them into the void” but kudos for some actual legit overcrowding strategies.
Love how the staffmenu says: "Hire new Furry"😂
Well Marcel, I got a another tip for the overcrowding I wanna share:
In a park If you run out of space in the middle of or above ground level, build underground too (Unless that entire space is already on bottom level) It’s another way besides with entertainers
What I like to to do for double-paths is have a space in between them and use no entry signs to make them one-way paths. The space in between gets used for connections between the two one-way paths that I put bathrooms or even queue line entrances on.
Using the map to highlight overcrowded areas and then zone those areas with entertainers is a quite efficient way to make use of your staff budget. Same is true for other guest complaints. Zone Handymen for complaints about trash, Mechanics if rides keep breaking down. ... Also handymen if guests are complaining about vandalism.
Good video as always, but I’ve noticed an inconsistency at 0:25.
Your voiceover says more than 10 guests, but the graphic shows more than 9, so which one is it?
Oh you're right. It's the graphic on the screen that is correct, there need to be at least 10 guests on the tile that the guest in question is walking onto.
Marcel didn’t recommend a mass drowning ritual sacrifice to the drowned god as a solution to overcrowding and now I’m concerned.
The more videos I see the more convinced I am we need a new pathfinder, one that can properly use boulevards and transport rides, and can give guests places they want to go rather than random bumbling.
I’d love to see a video on how you handle beating Quantum’s Edge.
I never knew about that map hack! Great video as always.
Can we please do a video on guest pathing and how they locate the exit. I have parks where there is more than one entrance/exit and when they want to leave they won't just take the closest exit. Its very frustrating and can lead to them getting lost
How do guests decide where to go?
As always great video!
*looks at title*
Me: Drowning. It's drowning them, isn't it?
3:05 I wonder if it's of any use to make it an "avenue" in SimCity terms, with No Entry signs dictating one direction for each side.
Probably not.
Very Nice. Learn new Things in an old Game. RCT 1 is one of the best Tycoons ever.
5:00 Hah, "Hire new Furry"
Amazing xD
One of the best ways to deal with the overcrowding is make small roundabouts especially near the entrance. What I would always do is do a 3x3 with the center empty and make it to where it was a one-way path and do the same on the opposite side but with the entrance and exit on opposite sides. I don't know why but this really helps.
And here I am always trying to maximise ride throughout because I feel bad about making guests wait too long to get on a cool coaster, lol!
Would love to see you play through Quantums Edge! Really cool scenario and I'm sure it would make a good stream/video!
Solutions to overcrowding
Google: Build a new ride in a low used area to redistribute guests
Bing: turn it into a furry convention
Yahoo: drop guests into the void
Constructing extra paths and connection points is also a good way to help with guests getting lost in the park, at least in a scenario I recently did.
I use the 1x3 hedge exploit maze as a muilti-tool: it efficiently attracts guests to the park, is easy to 3d-ize, and diverts guests to the paths connected to the exit. Also, because guests will always ride a free transport ride you can setup the paths so that guests accidentally stumble into the Q for transport. Have your transport drop people off in quartiles and wala, massive crowd management.
I think guests also pathfind to bathrooms, so their positioning has a lot of utility. I also think they have infinite capacity... had 4k guest parks with 4 bathrooms and noone was complaining about not finding a toilet. Topic for another video- as is, anything that guests will pathfind to can serve to alleviate crowding issues.
I usually set up my park so guests immediately collide with an info kiosk surrounded by branching paths going straight out from the kiosk. The lateral paths lead to transport rides which take the guests to a different quartile, all of which are still path-connected but the transport is basically a teleporter. I also spread out desirable coasters so that guests with their handy lil' maps will pathfind away from each other.
@4:07 Aaah yes, the line for steel vengeance at cedar point.
I always use rides that store a lot of guests like the 3d cinema, a twist and mostly exciting rides close to the exits of popular rides that attract the guests. I always create alternative exit paths with a medium pathway back to the main paths and use a no entrance sign. I'll use gentle rides only connected to the exit pathways to split the exiting guests so they'll get back on the main paths in smaller batches. Shops and toilets are also on these roads to devide large groups.
I also use transport rides from the transport tab and rides such as the log flume or splash boats to transport large groups from exiting paths to other places in the park. I try to make a shortcut back to these rides so that they won't cross the entire park to go back because they will so a shortcut off the main path is preferred if possible. And entertainers and one way paths and fences :)
*because the gentle rides aren't super popular in most cases, this way pays off for the few guests complaining they can't find a ride
If you don’t mind the constant notification, you could raise the the ride level two levels so that 1, the entrance queue line is maximized for a smaller amount of space taken but double the number of guests, and, 2. You can drop the guests from the exit rather than having the usual dedicated exit line.
Congrats on 100k
3:33 "I once lost a thousand guests because it was overcrowded." Ah, so this is what people mean when they say, "Nobody ever goes there; it's too crowded!"
I never knew about highlighting the park Map.
I typically don't do anything about overcrowding, either it'd specific tiles that I can't do anything about or it could be a pathfinder issue, which needs to be resolved by building am easy to digest path.
A do not enter sign on ride exits work as well, to prevent unwanted foot access to a dead end path, as often enough overcrowding comes from Rollercoaster dumping riders on the paths.
2:07 "How do we prevent overcrowding from happening? There are three main methods"
Me, a Marcel Vos fan: "Drowning, sending them into the void, locking them in a queue forever with furries?"
Well, I got 1.5 right.
How did you change the label of your mascots?
I just changed the UK English language file.
I just came to ask that
WOW this game really was ahead of its time 😝
0:53
_"So what is my job here now?"_
_"Professional furry."_
_"...okay."_
Can use one-way paths too, bit like roads (with no entry signs)
Yes! Thank you SimCity 4 lol
After more than 20 years im still impressed about some game mechanics of RCT.
Man, that fence trick would have saved so many of my parks if I knew that as a kid.
Always build paths in squares! Never do dead ends, the guest then can always go forwards because the path finding will navigate them forwards and it will also not get them lost or they will have to travel the same square twice... If you have to make a dead end use a No-entry sign. Build exits on main paths (this might introduce overcrowding issues when they exit the ride tough... not sure)... If you build a double sided path with a fence in the middle... Make them 1 way with 2 no entry signs... Put a Cashmachine at the start of the one-way and a load off stalls and a toilet on both sides this will make you money too :-) i call them power malls :-) You can use the Information kiosk in the middle of the 2 one ways and make use of the 2 sides.
Just curious, since you've posted some videos about Zoo Tycoon, would you ever consider doing a series on it? I've been struggling with trying to build a large zoo because no matter what I do, I end up with massive numbers of hungry and thirsty guests, even if I build plenty of restaurants and smaller picnic areas. So, I'd love to see something that might assist with placement and all that.
A plugin to convert wide paths into double paths would be good. Especially when that’s what you’re given in a scenario, or want to have the paths elevated. Otherwise you have to delete the current path, or tediously go into the tile editor. I wonder if it could be done with modifications to the path expander plugin. You’d have to add a way to specify direction.
And then I like intersections of two double paths to have a little hole in the middle where the corners of the tiles meet up. It doesn’t change anything, but I think it looks nicer, and I can only do it with the tile inspector on each of the four pieces.