my aunt has a beautiful old house her husband built yr.ago and they made there fireplace heat there home up . And also it makes some type of gas that stores into another tank and works off the generator along with regular gas.
From what I could see in the video, it looked like the panels against the side of your house had a little snow at the bottom. Any shadows can cause significant power losses. The effect is less if your panels are on parallel -- the power loss is limited to that one panel. If your panels are in series, the whole string of panels are affected. I'm guessing that your panels are in series because your mppt controller will accept higher panel voltages. Running higher voltages let the installer use thinner wire and minimize wire resistance related voltage drop. Be vigilant about keeping snow off the panels and avoiding shadows on individual panels. Thanks for taking the time to create and upload the video. It was very interesting.
I agree horrible solar panel placement,and also so little panels....i got 12,53 volts,470w panels,now those,even in these conditions make enough power for lights and a fridge at least,and if there are better conditions,than its endles power,we cant use all of it at all...air conditioners runing on it nonstop,day and night,having a big lithium battery bank too...i wonder how they are doing after 8 years,since this video was posted:)
I see your video from Belgium , europe , sorry for ma bad english , and for me your life style is the best way to be happy with the nature around your house and your dog.
GET AC out of the picture!!! Inverters waste power! First , ditch the AC lights. if your gonna use LED do straight 12 volt or 24 volt DC. Second is to get a propane fridge and freezer that uses DC for needed power. Inverters are horribly inefficient and the more things in your house that don’t need AC power the better. if your gonna charge a cellphone get a 12 or 24 volt to 5volt USB converter. They are far better than loosing energy first from your inverter and then from the transformer in your chargers wall brick.
This is the right way to think. Just look at the caravan scene, systems with 240V/120V never match the efficiency of a 12/24V system. But keep in mind cable gauge to ensure voltage drop is avoided. Lastly, with your fridge outside you can keep it plugged in. If it starts to warm up, it will turn on and keep food from going off. Given how cold it is outside, it wont need to run long to pump the heat out and that is if it even needs to run. In any case, interesting video. Thanks.
Yes, propane fridge and freezer i think is a good option. If we did have money i would have a digester to make our own gas. Solar and gas tanks will have to do for us, we can't complain here about the sun, plenty here in Australia.
恵勇気 Wow, the amount of knowledge you all have is incredible! Hubby and i are nearly 60 and want to transition to self sufficient life from city to rural and 0 knowledge....ahhh
Starry this was a HUGE help! we are in the planning stages for retiring to Montana, next door to you. I would like to be completely off grid, hubby won't go for it but I want to get him as close as possible. your weather is similar but a bit more harsh than where we are going but I have friends in Priest River so I know the basics. We will be in the Bitterroot Valley. I love the concrete floor also... not sure if I can talk hubs into that tho. Thank you for your honesty as always like most of your viewers we value it.
So what did you think was gonna happen when fall/winter came around? You have to diversify your energy sources. Wind, solar, generators, also run as many DC appliances and lighting as possible to conserve energy due to inverter inefficiency. Only run AC if you absolutely have to and as little as possible. Use the environment to refrigerate/freeze foods during winter. A root cellar will keep most foods cool enough year round and it also provides proper humidity. It may not be a perfect solution but every watt counts when living off grid.
Awesome video(s) and information for sure. I think your friends who bought the 12volt fridge are on the right track for energy efficiency, there is a power loss converting solar DC to AC, and the newer fridges are far more efficient! It sounds like you are using just lead acid car battery types for your bank (sorry new viewer). For me to do solar right you need to triple overkill it in my opinion (very expensive I know). I'd either go for Lithium or gel cell (marine-large 2Volt) battery storage and have 3 isolated groups of battery banks, so you can run them down completely (full cycles-max life) and fully charge them independently. Love the house by the way! Thanks for the great videos.
Hugh Piggot has great plans for axial flux alternators and windmills for electric generation. I suggest coupling one with the solar to gain from windy days in winter. The alternator can also be coupled with a water wheel in a nearby stream if available.
one thing we found works for us is on our 12 volt system is we run every thing posible 12 volt lights 3.5 watt to 7 watt frige 55 watt. we use the inverter only when it is needed. Motion censors on out side lights it all make for less battery usage
The same thing happens even here in Hawaii. The Hilo side of the Big Island has a lot of days that are rainy and cloudy so a lot of people use generators. You might want to think about getting a couple more solar panels.
Keep those panels clear of snow (10:50) and dirt as well! It only needs 1 (one) of the cells in the panel to be shaded and your output from that panel will fall dramatically. Keep 'em clean!
Hi folks! Planning on moving to the country in a few years ourselves. We're currently living in a city and are miss country life sooo bad. Two things I see that would be a help for you move, elevate and correctly angle your solar array, it's being choked a bit where it is sitting. Second, get a bunch of 2 liter soda bottles with good tight lids, wash inside and out, fill with water, 2/3 to 3/4 of the way full to allow for expansion, freeze and stick in fridge, close door. This works when power goes down in S. Texas due to storms and is a trick that started first with glass bottles --plastic is safer. You need lids that screw on snugly not snap, to avoid accidental leakage. During below freezing spells just set out to freeze. You need to save for more panels and maybe a wind turbine. Lots luck to you Cat
We invested in a chest refrigerator that runs on 12 or 24 volts, we are using 24v. I added a freezer into the mix 3 months ago. My 2 180 watt panels are keeping them going, batteries stay above 26+. My hubby wants me to bring down the 4 panels with a low open end (36 or 39 v) which was sold to me as 24v panels. Come to find out they are like 18 or 19 v panels. I bought 4 new panels to replace them, 280 watts each. Even in the winter I should get about 2 kw a day, yes the REAL foggy day like you had will be only a trickle. Morningstar said I could plug them into the charger for 12v batteries without harming the charger. So they are moving over to the shed that our son will be using as his home when I finish half of the house. Living off grid for 12+ yrs and still love it!
Lots of good info. Me and my hubby and 2 kids are looking at moving to a off grid home in northern Canada. It has solar wind and a generator but I was wondering about winter. Lots of good tips thanks.
some refrigerators will shut off when they are too cold. Others refrigerators will stay powered during the cold. So check the manufactures specifications.
I have been building a smaller solar system for my RV for around 6 years now, I purchased some used panels, they shipped with 1"foam, so I kept the foam and in October I insulated the battery bank & caulked the botttom & sides. It did not help at all, until I put weatherstrip between the top lid and I got my power back! for the winter. 1"on the bottom OK 2"on sides & top, Lumber yard has blue, yellow or Pink foam for houses. 2"or more! tie the insulation snug around the batteries, good to set up a vent but put fiberglass insul. in it when 20 degrees or colder. This will make your battery bank act as if Summer! Nick Wiese
Thank you for replying! In the back of my mind I knew you provably would have considered it but I never thought you wouldn't have enough wind on top of the hill. I love the straight forward logic in your designs....I am learning!
Very nice place and some really good tips! The panels would perform better if they where up off the ground. In most 60 cell panels there is 3 circuit loops that run from the bottom to the top and back to the bottom of the panel. If that is covered anywhere along that path(snow across the bottom) there will be zero output from that circuit. If you could raise the panels and little it would help keep the bottom out of the snow. Another option would be to build a little rack and put the panels on their side so if you do get snow accumulation along the bottom (side) then you will only lose output from the bottom circuit but still have 2/3rds of the panel producing. Thanks for taking the time to do the video. Every bit of knowledge is helpful!
You might want to check into making a wind turbine . looks like your in area where there might also be some streams you could put a water driven turbine in. Spring snow melting could create a source for additional power.
Pvwatts is a gov't online graph of the entire USA. It displays the energy per area in terms of solar exposure in a yearly format. It accounts for the entire year and factors cloudy days and total weather. My install was based on 4.7 energy hours per day.
+George rosado Often its not about having all the electricity in the world..but changing our view of how we consume to. We have learned to think unconventionally. and sing the cold of winter..well..it just makes sense. Even if we had extra panels..i think just using them to run the fridge would be in a sense ...wasteful. we moved ut here to be more simple...more aware...it works..and i like!!
+mreisma yes they do and yes it is. I prefer LCD bulbs anyway as they have 1/5th again of the power consumption. EG our lounge room lighting bar went from 4x 50w bulbs to 4x 16w mercury energy savers to now being 4x 5w LED's which throw as much light as the 50w bulbs and more than the energy savers. LED is the future IMHO if you want to reduce energy. We've dropped our power bill over $100 a quarter just from switching most of the lights in the house from 16w energy savers to 5w LEDs and more again by throwing our old clunker portable AC and replacing it with a larger more efficient newer portable AC (for the office area).
+mreisma Yes mercury is bad for ones health, but: - it is only in vapor form when those bulbs are hot - if the bulbs does break when hot that vapor cools and settles into very heavy droplets which will go to the floor - the amount of mercury per bulb is tiny, you would need to break several of those bulbs daily and inhale all they can offer for years on end to get an effect Long story short not a good idea to eat CFL bulbs, otherwise harmless. Unless you work in a CFL factory, then demand respirators.
MsSomeonenew, I'm not sure where you got your information from but I am sure it's a lot more serious than that. There's a video on youtube explaining just how much mercury is in our landfills just from those bulbs, it might be eye opening to you.
+MsSomeonenew I disagree strongly with this statement, you might want to do a lot more research because the mercury industry doesn't want you to know the truth. There is so much miss information out there.
sickjohnson : It seems many don't know the truth, from the florescent bulbs, to chemtrails which are infesting the soil, barium and strontium is turning up in antlers, chickens are found to have high mercury..most of us have no idea how topsy turvy the world is..
I don't know if anyone already suggested this, but if you moved the freezer and fridge outside during winter perhaps to a protected shed then the energy use would be lower for both units. heat travels from warmer to colder area. also the amount of heat transfer accelerates as the difference in temp rises. so freezer in semi warm pantry has higher heat transfer than freezer in very cold outside shed. the less heat transfer to begin with equals less motor run time to remove heat, equals less electricity used. This might be enough savings in electricity to eliminate the generator. btw great videos
Good thinking with the fridge. Definitely cuts down power consumption in winter. Keep an eye out for critters trying to get your lunch, a lock might help a little bit.
As a power doubler use mirror to double the low power you get a second sun. Works well.also cut out the middle man buy 12 volt TV and led lights at 12 volts. It works . And the lamps you can get from truck stops ur on the right track with a second sun mirrors aimed at the cells full length mirrors are best kv4li 73
You could add a temperature control outlet to turn that fridge on when in gets warmer, though the control takes precious winter power so you'd have to unplug it in the dead of winter.
You could have the refigirator in the garage or basement, A garage often have medium temperature year around. Or try to invest in a solution so you can have a refrigirator.
You go girl. I love your videos. Even though I could never do a quarter of what you do and how you live due to being disabled. But, I love and live it through you! You are so cool!
+Taaheatea 2k Thats awesome..and dont worry..alot of people say that couldnt live like us..or they wish they could..so your not alone! Im glad your here watching and MAY God Bless you!!
Add more insulation to your fridge and freezers. You'll be amazed how much more energy efficient they get. Just make sure you don't insulate the heat exchange (some fridge had them on the side wall).
I am not interested in going off grid, but I find your experiences VERY interesting. There are so many things that you have to consider to live off grid and I would never have thought about them.
As your budget alows try adding wind generators to your system. Replace that gas generator with deisal then convert it to use bio diesal. Most restaurants will be glad to let you take their used cooking oil which is easily refined into polution free bio diesal. Just a thought.
have you tried using a personal windmill, I know it seems out of the blue, but I recently heard of a boy in africa that build a windmill for his village. so I don't know if that would work. but I found it interesting.
pookiroo Well remember it depends also on your array..and your battery bank. We do it since the fridge we bought is unfortunately a volt user...so for us instead of wasting so much energy during the winter..we can just put it on the porch and do it the old fashion way. I mean why not! However..alot of households with solar who have good fridges that dont use alot of energy..they are able to keep the fridge indoors all year round. So dont be discouraged....it just depends on your own situation!!
Try keeping the freezer outside plugged in. Most of the energy is lost from being in a heated area, if you keep it in the cold it will need to work less to keep cold
Try a windmill generator to make power when the sun isn't available. They run through the same Voltage regulator as your solar system and can charge up the battery bank when the sun isn't available. Good luck. You have a beautiful home and surrounding area! Thanks for sharing.
we're going to build an of grid house, but I'm spec'ing a 12kw solar array and 20 kWh battery bank (Aquion batteries, look into them they last 10x as long as lead acid, they use saltwater, can be fully discharged or operate at partial charge without damage. They claim cradle to cradle longevity).
When we were in Western Wyoming this summer a guy was telling us it is sunny pretty much all the time in the winter. I would try concentrating the sunlight with mirrors onto the panels if I was there. For your situation you should learn how to get wood gas to run your generator.
Hi Losif: I was going to suggest the same thing about using a gasification system. They have tons of resource with all of the trees. Once the system was built (many parts can be found at a scrap yard) they would be able to run their generator for free for ever...! Ps... The systems are not difficult to build. Have a great day...!
Bonnie Flory, That is because they didn't know what it truly takes to install a wind turbine properly. The turbines you see barely turning all the time, and producing absolutely nothing for out put are the people who think they can install a wind turbine in no wind and still get power. You need the turbine installed at least 60ft - 80ft high on a stable pole to get wind generation power year round, night and day. Not every single night and day, but all year round, shine or not. I will bet the turbines you are talking about are mounted only 25, maybe 30 feet high, it is not high enough. only in some locations can you mount them so low. Even other places can be mounted on the ground, like in the desert, but most places need 60ft at the least, the higher the tower, the more power you will get. The small turbine cost only a fraction of the tower it requires will cost. It is only because of inflation and outsourcing. A good tower(in essence an 80ft pole) will cost $15,000 and a 1500watt turbine cost around $500 - $1,500. So for 1500watts of wind turbine installed correctly cost about $20,000, that is if you do it all yourself, renting the crane, buying the wire, bat, charge controller, etc...and 1500watts ain't much for $20,000, it is enough(when their is a jet stream) to heat one small well insulated room in winter(like -10 to -30 area), nothing more. And that part is more than nothing, but if we had $20,000 to spend on towers, then maybe we should. lol Just buy a better turbine since the tower cost so much, put up a 5000watt turbine instead. And buy the tower that raises and lowers without the need for a crane, they have them. lol
Using a chest-freezer as a 'fridge is also a great saving... (better insulation + air stays in when you open the lid). So many things these days use switching power supplies, so use power even when they are idle. More panels would give better winter capacity, then in summer you could dump excess power into heating water?
Very true. Can go buy some insulation and build yourself a fridge for a lot cheaper than a commercially available one if using it for cold storage outside.
For outside use a white refrigerator is better for heat on the outside. Also an all fridge uses way less power. A two door fridge defrosts every 12 hours using a heating element in the wall of the freezer.
A friend of mine is off grid in the florida keys, everything in his house runs off of 12 volts. Not sure how but it does. He's a real wiz with the solar stuff.
I think a lot of it depends on your needs. We really technically didn't need the system we have...if a person has conservative needs 12 volt is great. Some of our off grid neighbors have just a generator and use propane for lights and refrigeration. I think me and my husband on our homestead could totally get unplugged and be just fine. We lived that way for months while building our place and it wasn't bad at all:)
You really need to think about, since you have AC lights, thinking about putting in RV 12v Lights, there are many styles, you can also use a house fixture, and put home AC style but 12v LED that fits home sockets, but wired to DC, I have many of those bulbs, LED, and Florescent..
Hey Starry, you said your refrigerator set up works for you, but I'm wondering if you considered an ice box? If seen them in antique stores, and was wondering if it would be an option, especially since you have such cold winters. I've also seen another off grid couple that uses one to good effect. You could keep it inside, so no bear worries, for example.
I have a basement "Cold Room", It is mostly below ground level with one small window and insulated from the rest of the house. Temperature in winter doesn't fall below freezing but it is cold. In summer, it remains cool. I have my deep freezer in there to reduce the amount of electricity needed. I also have an old, but still working, fridge in there. If your fridge is put outside or in a cold room, it could remain plugged in and it would only run when the surrounding temperature is above what the fridge is set on.
For the lights, you should look into getting 12v. The higher the inverter needs to boost the voltage, the more inefficient it is. Also I take it you are using deep cycle batteries? Look into getting Lithium Ions. More expensive up front, but they last many more cycles, and you can discharge them down to around 30%, instead of 50% in deep cycles.
Might be good to plug fridge in but leave it outside in the cool months. It won't use much power at all because average temperature outside is probably pretty close to 4 degrees Celsius or whatever you set it to, so it won't actually come on very often. But at least stuff won't get too warm and spoil. Food might still spoil by freezing of course.
Great video! I found that looking at the big picture, is what led me to make my own solar panels, battery bank, etc. etc. In the event of a power failure, in the "ON" grid world, If you can't afford to, or there is no one with the knowledge on how solar works...or how to repair them, some would not have power for long. Learn, its never a waist of time.
You need to get some Harbor Freight Tools Solar Panel Kit. They work great in low light. We use them with our Ham Radio in the field. Ham Radio is something good off grid too.
Sailboat wind powered generator or a much bigger one. Also if you're completely off grid then why not run 24v DC lighting (or 12v if that's better for your setup). Every time you're converting DC-to-AC or AC-to-DC your incurring loss. You can never get rid of all loss but only minimize it.
I went online to check out wind turbines and you can buy them at Walmart and Home Depot for $500 to $800. I know you have a breeze there and wind power will act as a back up generator.
she said in an above comment that they had one but found the wind was not enough for the cost. they traded it off for more panels because they provided more power (even in the winter).
Stephanie Hodge Thanks so much and yes, the living and learning! Its all part of the experience. And the ability to be ADAPTABLE! That is the key to survival...and the key to peace!
Great video (I saw the summer one also). Hopefully my comments are helpful and not sound too critical. Here is what I think is going on/issues with your system that I think may help: 1. Underpaneled/too low PV voltage - With the Midnite Solar Classic (I have two and a Kid) I would wire the panels for higher voltage. Right now you have 2KW with a long feeder line to the house...inefficient. During cold/winter months you should be producing enough power to run what you need...however, with a lot of batteries, takes up PV energy to charge with not much else going on. I would design your system to run in the winter months...everything else is gravy. If I had your homestead, I would be running about 4KW+ in panels at a VOC of around 120v in a 48v battery string (about 12 to 16 RE solar batteries). 2. Batteries - More is not always better...but, matching your homestead electrical use is. Panels make the power...not the batteries. However, if you run 24/7 I would def look into keeping the batteries at full charge when the sun goes down...then start the process over again the next day. Limit night time use to just the basics (freezer, a few lights, LED TV, etc-etc). 3. The GOOD stuff (being positive here). LED lighting - bonus points. Monocrystalline panels - not bad. Midnite Solar equipment - excellent. Dedicated DC appliances is your choice...IMO, not worth the additional cost if your system is set up right. With a few modifications (more panels, higher voltages, right-sizing your battery bank) I think you will not have to run that generator quite as much. Good luck...you are ahead of the game compared to many!
You are a wealth of information. The winters hear are pretty mild in relation to what you are accustom to. I am hoping that the sunlight during those months would still be sufficient to refil the batteries on most days. Chuck
I love your videos. Ill post a tip. because one more con on outside refrigerator is bears. In Alaska is they drill a 1 to 2 inch hole in the backs of their fidges, stick a steel pipe in each hole and run it through similar holes in the wall. The outside cold comes in through the pies and keeps it cool. Then in summer they plug the fridge holes and use power to cool it. That way they keep the fridge inside year round.
in the UK I can get 12 6w/46w LED bulbs, screw fit for under $50, try looking on amazon UK. Also I would look into a gassifier, to run your genny off wood produced carbon monoxide.
Got rid of all the curly compact flourescent bulbs as we found to be a fire hazard -several melted into the base unit -shutting on and off on their own , enviromentaly toxic containing mercury , and last no where near the 10,000 hours stated on most packages, 4000 at the most . but had a great deal on LED's at about 7.50 per bulb and the government gave an instant rebate at the store of 6.00 each , so we kinda stocked up a bit!
Good points! thank you. I wish you had mentioned how many and what wattage panels you have. That seems to be the great question for us who are planning.
Neil Shubert We have a 2k array. Our solar panels are actually very efficient..even when there is clouds we are STILL getting some juice..so remember that. Every homesteads needs are different. during the winter we have about a month and a half of clouds..so we just learn how to be alittle more conservative. But for the most part our array has met our needs! Hope that helps!!
I noticed you said your inverter was running if you left your cell charger plunged in. This might be something to think about is having a 12 volt step down from your 24 volt solar for car chargers or cigarette lighter plugs. About 85% of the items I use from TV's, laptops, DVD players, cell phones all run DC. Look for a box plug or box in the cord, most likely running DC. Your taking 24 volt solar and inverting it to 110 AC back to 12 volt DC is a huge waste of power. I have seen big difference my charge capacity after using this trick of buy passing the inverter and steeping down the power. Hope this tip helps you out, I know I have learn a lot from your videos.
I just watched a video by Steve Armstrong about solar panel water heater. He showed a really neat way to heat water during winter by using a stainless steel tube in his wood burning stove. If you did not know of this before...
Good point about unplugging things. On-Grid folks forget that even when your cell charger is not plugged into your phone, it's still sucking electricity. Starry, I'm curious, have you explored other LED lighting options yet? I have a work-light for my business that uses the tape-like LED strips. Super low draw, and runs directly from 12v. So I don't need to convert it to 120, then back down to 12v.
Just found your channel today and I am not sure where you are, but where I live in the fall we get incentives to buy led bulbs like $5 off led bulbs. I buy Philips led bulbs at home depot for $8, with $5 off I'm paying $3 a bulb. Just something to keep in mind.
PS: Every time you open the upright frig door, all the cold runs down and out. Then the frig must re-create that lost cold. With a chest type, you lose very little cold because it stays below heat. The outside temp keeps it inside the box.
I suggest to people to convert as much as they can afford to 12v appliances. Marine grade RV stuff is highly efficient. Use a convection cooktop and dump the microwave. If you have an open well. You can store items in the basket and it stays cold all year long. You just have to think old school. Real world needs over wants.
Claude Rains Good advice but the flip side is..when you set up a off grid home.. the drawback with DC is that you’ll typically end up with dual household wiring systems, because very few people can live with only DC. Most often, AC appliances are also desired, which means having two sets of wiring (DC and AC), a more expensive option. Usually the wisest choice for a modern, whole-house system is to choose all AC, buy an efficient inverter, use ultra-efficient appliances, and add a bit more energy capacity to the system to cover the inverter losses. We have Backwoods Solar here ...a very popular supply place where they live the life and talk the talk...they sell both d/c and AC fridges and they say this about DC fridges......." 12/24 VOLT DC refrigerators & chest freezers in our catalog offer energy savings and security, by needing no inverter to function. However the most efficient AC refrigerators and freezers have more powerful compressors and shorter running times. A select few AC units are nearly as efficient as DC units. The AC power Conserv freezer in our catalog, is just as efficient as the DC units..". IF you choose however to do both.... each DC is much better suited for those few items that need a little power available all the time. Motion sensing outdoor lights, cord-less phones and message machines, alarm system, clock-radio and a doorbell are good examples. Turning those appliances off at night and when the house is vacant to save power just defeats their purpose. Convection stove top? Not to familiar with this..can you explain the benefit to our viewers?? I know it has to do with magnetic field transfer...but my concern is how much electricity does it use and is it dependent on it? Is so it sounds like again a convention cooktop might not be able to use the DC power? Is this correct?? What system do you have...how big? What applications in your home are you using the DC stuff.. a fridge? How big!!Love to hear more about it since you made some outstanding comments to discuss for everyone!!
I have 3kw array which produces 18kw over a 6hr day. Which is 250 ah. It's more then I need. As I converted almost everything to DC. Water heater gets the dump load. The array works more efficient this less it has to convert to AC. The only draw back is wire sizing to the main service panel cost. I chose to use marine grade appliances where needed for reliability and efficiency reasons. This left only the convection stove top oven and AC unit to run AC. Which is run off a single 3k watt Samlex converter which is 93% efficient. The cooktop is instant heat. So it's not wasting watts getting to working temp. The oven part uses fans that are very low on watts as well. It cooks faster on less energy. The AC unit is only 550 watts at full load. The way to figure out all your energy uses is to add up everything in watts. Don't worry about voltage. It's not important till you get high resistance appliances. As that is where you're getting hosed on energy consumption. It all starts at the array and one reason Sanyo and Kryocea are King. They are multi crystalline panels not mono. Their rated output is real. None of this in perfect conditions fine print stuff. I install low resistance wiring. High end MPPT controllers. The best AGM batteries someone can afford unless they want to caught up $1200.00 a battery for lithium ion. It also has to be sized right. A conversation I found on how people and contractors don't understand. That I ran across and it's true. Solar Sizing It does not matter if the 24 batteries are configured as 24 or 48 volt. Either way each battery will have the exact same amount of charge current. As you stated if configured as 48 volts requires you to make 3 parallel string with 8 batteries in each string. This means the current from the charge controller is divided evenly by 3. If configured as 24 volts you will have 6 parallel strings with 4 batteries in each string which means the current from the controller is divided by 6. Are you with me so far? OK it is very simple 5th grade math from here. You have a panel wattage of 1410 watts right? (6 panels x 235 watts) If the charge controller is set up for 48 volts, the output current is 1410 watts / 48 bolts = 29.375 amps. OK you have 3 strings with a 48 volt battery setup, so that 29.375 amps is divided by 3 so each string has 29.375 amps / 3 strings = 9.79 amps/sting. That means every battery configured at 48 volts has 9.79 amps charge current. Understand? OK if configured at 24 volts the current out from the charge controller is 1410 watts / 24 volts = 58.75 amps. With 6 strings of batteries means the current is divided by 6 right. So we have 58.75 amps / 6 strings = 9.79 amps /string. Now you tell me which number is greater than the other: 9.79 amps/string in the 48 volt configuration, or or 9.79 amps/string in the 24 volt configuration? Here is the real scary part. Your installer is a moron and only knows enough to be very dangerous. He is correct that too low of a charge current can cause sulfation in flooded lead acid batteries. The minimum charge current to prevent sulfation is C/12 where C = the battery amp hour capacity. Your batteries are 225 AH batteries correct? So C/12 for your batteries is 225 AH / 12 hours = 18.75 amps minimum charge current required. Guess what, no matter if you configure them for 24 or 48 volts you only have 9.79 amps of a C/23 charge current. What this means is you will destroy your batteries and neither your installer or you have a clue why. There is two ways to fix that problem. Either double your panel wattage and configure it for 48 volts, or only use 12 batteries and configured for 24 volts. Which one do you choose. Last warning. You need to understand fully what I just told you, or else you are going to make a huge mistake. BTW, fire your contractor, he is a moron. Anyone who told you what he did and to use either 3 or 6 parallel battery strings is an idiot. If it were using 1410 watts of panels you would be using a single sting of 12 Trojan L16RE2V batteries @ 24 volts, which is the same capacity you are looking at now, just less expensive and will last longer than your T-105 batteries. But hey it is only money right, your money. Use the batteries your contractor wants will last a year or two at best. My way 5 or 6 years. Your whole system is mismatched. Nothing is designed to work with each other. What moron came up with this? With a 1410 watt panel system can only support a 24 volt battery system of 480 AH (C/8) 720 AH (C/12). The moron has suggested a 24 volt 1350 AH battery or over twice what a 1410 watt system can support. If you do that with parallel batteries you will be replacing your batteries every year or two. Another thing if designed properly based on a panel wattage of 1410 watts withing the range of battery it can support only gives you around 2.4 Kwh of daily power or about 30-cents of electricity. Taht means based on what you have had recomendation mean with 3 year battery replacement will cost you some $3?Kwh. You can buy it for 10 cents per Kwh. Design it correctly and you can bring that cost down to $1/Kwh over a 10 year life.
Claude Rains I guess i'm confused at some of your observations and comments...you said you would fire our contractor because he never told us to use 3 or 6 parallel battery strings? Are you sure you are commenting on the right video? We never talked about how our batteries are strung together? And why would our whole system be mismatched? What gave you that idea? We have a magnum inverter, 2 MPPT charge controllers and 16 L16 Interstate 6 volt batteries. Pretty simple. We have a 2k array, Sunforce panels, 250 watts each. Also you stated "He is correct that too low of a charge current can cause sulfation in flooded lead acid batteries" Again..I think you watched a different video...we didnt talk about any of this stuff. At all...I guess I gotta chuckle cause I think you got your video comments mixed up?? Maybe you can tell me the video time where we said all of this?? Again you stated ..."The moron has suggested a 24 volt 1350 AH battery or over twice what a 1410 watt system can support. If you do that with parallel batteries you will be replacing your batteries every year or two. " sorry...the moron you are talking about isn't on this video! We have a 2KW array...we dont have 1350 AH batteries..and we have had our batteries for over three years and we're not replacing anything. In fact everyone who comes up here see's how gently used they are and laughs and says our batteries will most likely last 10 plus years! Anyway..must be wrong video....and besides...if you are going to give a comment that carries any weight and has any validity..you really should not use derogatory remarks against others...it erodes at your own comments and expertise... God Bless and relook at the video..I think this one is a oohh ohhh..
No I'm saying look at your system and see what's actually going on from the solar panels to the batteries first. As not to many contractors or installers have a clue. It's get the sale and most give out bad information because they really don't know. A proper system should produce more energy the colder it gets and being cloudy shouldn't cut your output more then 30% as it's not charging off visible light. It's charging from a spectrum the eyes can't see though the cloud cover. As you said you were only getting 6 amps. So something is wrong and if that continues. Your batteries will fail in short order. I would start at how many watts everything uses. How much you use them everyday and what has to run all the time. This is actually where math can save you money, time and grief.
HI Starry and thanks for the video. With power consumption being that critical I'm curious why you don't throw cell phones in the car for an hour and charge them. One less thing on the system.
all my lights are 12 volt led but screw onto regular light socket and have couple recepticles ( plug in) my drop lights have 12 volt led bulbs and everything is marked 12 volt or 120 volt AC because if plug 120 into 12 volt no biggy but if you plug 12 volt into 120 AC you get a big bang out of it so even my control boxes are marked 12 volt or 120 AC . It is nice because may drain shutting down the inverter but 12 volt light still work for few days, my phone charger and internet all work off of 12 volt DC.
Hello there Hilder family... May sound like a strange question but have you tried using mirror's to focus brighter light from an overcast day onto the solar panels you have. Dan at Greenpowerscience channel is claiming he gets about 30% more power and 30% more heat in the summer in a lab type experiment. I don't know what your panel array looks like so may be completely impractical idea but mirrors are pretty cheap. But if you are only getting 9 watts that's just 2.7 watts more. Also all the curly que fluorescent light bulbs (CFL) have a voltage regulator built into the bulb at the base. They do not play nice with off grid inverters. You might think you are only using 20 watts but in my example/experience they pull upwards of 75+watts. feel how much warmer the CFL is vs pre inverter living. Happy living!
Put the freezer outside and refrigerater in the house. As long as your outside temp hovers below zero you will be fine. You dont open your freezer as often as your refrigerator.
your inverter is consuming 50watt on no load by using 12vdc led light of about 6w each you can save up on your battery bank your system will be more efficient as the 12v led bulbs is consuming only 0.3A from your battery if you put 10 led bulbs on 12v it will be only 3AMP
Heating is another source of energy to sustain power for your battery bank. I agree, winter and solar can get a bit expensive; however, that same system can be a bit excessive for spring, summer, and fall months depending on where you live. Living off-grid in the winter, for most, the main source of heat is some form of wood stoves. You can take that energy to charge your battery bank with a generator that is powered from the gases produced for your heating source. Research wood stove gasifier!
Oh and these Wind Generators are not those tiny ones, these are full size wind Mill size Wind Turbines.. Something to think of, hope this helps.. The 1600 watt is much larger power then your solar, in the winter, it would keep your power up
To save on battery power to charge your cell phone, Ipad or tablet, get your self one of those inexpensive cigarette lighter adapters and connect it to 1 12V battery when you need to charge. Since your not using the inverter when charging such devices you will use a lot less wattage out of your battery banks. Don't forget to disconnect the adapter when not required.
winter all the heat items should be working off the wood stove you should have burning, makes coffee, heat food, have a water jacket for showers. I'm in Florida my nightmare is summer & 90*. running gen for AC.
This video is a perfect example of what I meant when I posted on another one of your videos that you aren't really off the grid, you just have a longer wire.
I just realized how many comments I've posted to you today, I hope you take them as my feedback and not heavy criticism. I've enjoyed your videos and your house is GREAT. I just generally only post when I feel like I have something to add. I do get disappointed when people seem to think they are much more independent than they seem to be (at least from my point of view).
yes sorry..no problem. sometimes i read to many comments that have no relevance to to how i live and i may jump the gun once in awhile. we try to combine some comfort with being self relient...but we certainly dont need a internet connection if it came down to it. thats our luxery...likea radio used to be many moons ago. so yes everybody does things differently with their set up. we still have vehicles and need gas and money for certain things. noone can be 100 independent of the system today...but then again thats not what were trying t do...thanks for your feed back! mr.H
before i put up more panels id be getting more batteries for more storage seems if your running low on power then you need to store up more on the nice days to last longer on the crappy days
well heres a thought for offgrid freezer/fridge ...using a chest type freezer ( uprights not good for off grid at all )...place a cooler inside the freezer to keep items you would have in a fridge..cooler will prevent freezing ...this way you only power one appliance...and place a sheet of plastic over the top of the chest freezer but leave a cut door flap in the plastic that can be pulled back to access the cooler/fridge then...that way going into the cooler/fridge a few times a day will not disturb the temp inside the freezer section
There are super energy efficient fridge/freezers - Sun-something is the brand. They are $$$ but use significantly less energy compared to the most efficient energy star freezer.
I'm 'on-grid' and use power strips to minimize EMF electro-magnetic fields effects. Thinking that even if the power strip is turned off, it's still plugged in - wouldn't that cause drain some energy from the batteries?
Put your refrigerator on a timer. That's what I do. Turns off at midnight and back on at 7 in the morning. My batteries last much longer.
my aunt has a beautiful old house her husband built yr.ago and they made there fireplace heat there home up . And also it makes some type of gas that stores into another tank and works off the generator along with regular gas.
From what I could see in the video, it looked like the panels against the side of your house had a little snow at the bottom. Any shadows can cause significant power losses.
The effect is less if your panels are on parallel -- the power loss is limited to that one panel. If your panels are in series, the whole string of panels are affected.
I'm guessing that your panels are in series because your mppt controller will accept higher panel voltages.
Running higher voltages let the installer use thinner wire and minimize wire resistance related voltage drop.
Be vigilant about keeping snow off the panels and avoiding shadows on individual panels.
Thanks for taking the time to create and upload the video. It was very interesting.
I agree horrible solar panel placement,and also so little panels....i got 12,53 volts,470w panels,now those,even in these conditions make enough power for lights and a fridge at least,and if there are better conditions,than its endles power,we cant use all of it at all...air conditioners runing on it nonstop,day and night,having a big lithium battery bank too...i wonder how they are doing after 8 years,since this video was posted:)
I see your video from Belgium , europe , sorry for ma bad english , and for me your life style is the best way to be happy with the nature around your house and your dog.
@ 8:40 You can still put the freezer outside and plug it in. I won't run when it's freezing out but will as it warms up...
GET AC out of the picture!!! Inverters waste power!
First , ditch the AC lights. if your gonna use LED do straight 12 volt or 24 volt DC. Second is to get a propane fridge and freezer that uses DC for needed power. Inverters are horribly inefficient and the more things in your house that don’t need AC power the better. if your gonna charge a cellphone get a 12 or 24 volt to 5volt USB converter. They are far better than loosing energy first from your inverter and then from the transformer in your chargers wall brick.
This is the right way to think. Just look at the caravan scene, systems with 240V/120V never match the efficiency of a 12/24V system. But keep in mind cable gauge to ensure voltage drop is avoided. Lastly, with your fridge outside you can keep it plugged in. If it starts to warm up, it will turn on and keep food from going off. Given how cold it is outside, it wont need to run long to pump the heat out and that is if it even needs to run.
In any case, interesting video. Thanks.
Yes, propane fridge and freezer i think is a good option. If we did have money i would have a digester to make our own gas. Solar and gas tanks will have to do for us, we can't complain here about the sun, plenty here in Australia.
恵勇気 Wow, the amount of knowledge you all have is incredible! Hubby and i are nearly 60 and want to transition to self sufficient life from city to rural and 0 knowledge....ahhh
you are 100% correct. Great comment
(KB7TKU)
Bonnie Flory we don't have electricity but we will try solar , would this work? for fridge etc...
Why not just freeze some water outside and put the ice in the frig to keep food cold inside the house
Starry this was a HUGE help! we are in the planning stages for retiring to Montana, next door to you. I would like to be completely off grid, hubby won't go for it but I want to get him as close as possible. your weather is similar but a bit more harsh than where we are going but I have friends in Priest River so I know the basics. We will be in the Bitterroot Valley. I love the concrete floor also... not sure if I can talk hubs into that tho. Thank you for your honesty as always like most of your viewers we value it.
Starry Hilder I'd recommend if you have smart phones, to get a battery pack on it. Adds (if conservative) two days extra time when you most need it.
So what did you think was gonna happen when fall/winter came around? You have to diversify your energy sources. Wind, solar, generators, also run as many DC appliances and lighting as possible to conserve energy due to inverter inefficiency. Only run AC if you absolutely have to and as little as possible. Use the environment to refrigerate/freeze foods during winter. A root cellar will keep most foods cool enough year round and it also provides proper humidity. It may not be a perfect solution but every watt counts when living off grid.
Awesome video(s) and information for sure.
I think your friends who bought the 12volt fridge are on the right track for energy efficiency, there is a power loss converting solar DC to AC, and the newer fridges are far more efficient!
It sounds like you are using just lead acid car battery types for your bank (sorry new viewer).
For me to do solar right you need to triple overkill it in my opinion (very expensive I know). I'd either go for Lithium or gel cell (marine-large 2Volt) battery storage and have 3 isolated groups of battery banks, so you can run them down completely (full cycles-max life) and fully charge them independently.
Love the house by the way! Thanks for the great videos.
Hugh Piggot has great plans for axial flux alternators and windmills for electric generation. I suggest coupling one with the solar to gain from windy days in winter. The alternator can also be coupled with a water wheel in a nearby stream if available.
one thing we found works for us is on our 12 volt system is we run every thing posible 12 volt lights 3.5 watt to 7 watt frige 55 watt. we use the inverter only when it is needed. Motion censors on out side lights it all make for less battery usage
I have lots of kids and not a lot of time but I'm just drawn to your videos and I'm going back and watching all of them
The same thing happens even here in Hawaii. The Hilo side of the Big Island has a lot of days that are rainy and cloudy so a lot of people use generators. You might want to think about getting a couple more solar panels.
Keep those panels clear of snow (10:50) and dirt as well! It only needs 1 (one) of the cells in the panel to be shaded and your output from that panel will fall dramatically. Keep 'em clean!
Hi folks! Planning on moving to the country in a few years ourselves. We're currently living in a city and are miss country life sooo bad. Two things I see that would be a help for you move, elevate and correctly angle your solar array, it's being choked a bit where it is sitting. Second, get a bunch of 2 liter soda bottles with good tight lids, wash inside and out, fill with water, 2/3 to 3/4 of the way full to allow for expansion, freeze and stick in fridge, close door. This works when power goes down in S. Texas due to storms and is a trick that started first with glass bottles --plastic is safer. You need lids that screw on snugly not snap, to avoid accidental leakage. During below freezing spells just set out to freeze. You need to save for more panels and maybe a wind turbine. Lots luck to you Cat
We invested in a chest refrigerator that runs on 12 or 24 volts, we are using 24v. I added a freezer into the mix 3 months ago. My 2 180 watt panels are keeping them going, batteries stay above 26+. My hubby wants me to bring down the 4 panels with a low open end (36 or 39 v) which was sold to me as 24v panels. Come to find out they are like 18 or 19 v panels. I bought 4 new panels to replace them, 280 watts each. Even in the winter I should get about 2 kw a day, yes the REAL foggy day like you had will be only a trickle.
Morningstar said I could plug them into the charger for 12v batteries without harming the charger. So they are moving over to the shed that our son will be using as his home when I finish half of the house.
Living off grid for 12+ yrs and still love it!
+Gail Nielsen Love it.thanks for sharing your setup!!
Lots of good info. Me and my hubby and 2 kids are looking at moving to a off grid home in northern Canada. It has solar wind and a generator but I was wondering about winter. Lots of good tips thanks.
some refrigerators will shut off when they are too cold. Others refrigerators will stay powered during the cold. So check the manufactures specifications.
+Brett J Thank you for this!!
@{// WTF! //} Electric not gas.
I have been building a smaller solar system for my RV for around 6 years now, I purchased some used panels, they shipped with 1"foam, so I kept the foam and in October I insulated the battery bank & caulked the botttom & sides. It did not help at all, until I put weatherstrip between the top lid and I got my power back! for the winter. 1"on the bottom OK 2"on sides & top, Lumber yard has blue, yellow or Pink foam for houses. 2"or more!
tie the insulation snug around the batteries, good to set up a vent but put fiberglass insul. in it when 20 degrees or colder. This will make your battery bank act as if Summer! Nick Wiese
Thank you for replying! In the back of my mind I knew you provably would have considered it but I never thought you wouldn't have enough wind on top of the hill. I love the straight forward logic in your designs....I am learning!
Very nice place and some really good tips! The panels would perform better if they where up off the ground. In most 60 cell panels there is 3 circuit loops that run from the bottom to the top and back to the bottom of the panel. If that is covered anywhere along that path(snow across the bottom) there will be zero output from that circuit. If you could raise the panels and little it would help keep the bottom out of the snow. Another option would be to build a little rack and put the panels on their side so if you do get snow accumulation along the bottom (side) then you will only lose output from the bottom circuit but still have 2/3rds of the panel producing. Thanks for taking the time to do the video. Every bit of knowledge is helpful!
I wish I could live the last few years of my life in nature . I hate my life now.
bardara jones
The time to start is now. /gives gentle push
Here is a wand. Make it so. ❕
You might want to check into making a wind turbine . looks like your in area where there might also be some streams you could put a water driven turbine in. Spring snow melting could create a source for additional power.
Pvwatts is a gov't online graph of the entire USA. It displays the energy per area in terms of solar exposure in a yearly format. It accounts for the entire year and factors cloudy days and total weather. My install was based on 4.7 energy hours per day.
excellent idea with the fridge placed outside... thank makes all the sense in the world
+George rosado Often its not about having all the electricity in the world..but changing our view of how we consume to. We have learned to think unconventionally. and sing the cold of winter..well..it just makes sense. Even if we had extra panels..i think just using them to run the fridge would be in a sense ...wasteful. we moved ut here to be more simple...more aware...it works..and i like!!
i think thise curly bulbs have mercury in them. i heard if u break one in your home the mercury vapor from the bulb is bad news
+mreisma yes they do and yes it is. I prefer LCD bulbs anyway as they have 1/5th again of the power consumption.
EG our lounge room lighting bar went from 4x 50w bulbs to 4x 16w mercury energy savers to now being 4x 5w LED's which throw as much light as the 50w bulbs and more than the energy savers. LED is the future IMHO if you want to reduce energy. We've dropped our power bill over $100 a quarter just from switching most of the lights in the house from 16w energy savers to 5w LEDs and more again by throwing our old clunker portable AC and replacing it with a larger more efficient newer portable AC (for the office area).
+mreisma
Yes mercury is bad for ones health, but:
- it is only in vapor form when those bulbs are hot
- if the bulbs does break when hot that vapor cools and settles into very heavy droplets which will go to the floor
- the amount of mercury per bulb is tiny, you would need to break several of those bulbs daily and inhale all they can offer for years on end to get an effect
Long story short not a good idea to eat CFL bulbs, otherwise harmless. Unless you work in a CFL factory, then demand respirators.
MsSomeonenew, I'm not sure where you got your information from but I am sure it's a lot more serious than that. There's a video on youtube explaining just how much mercury is in our landfills just from those bulbs, it might be eye opening to you.
+MsSomeonenew I disagree strongly with this statement, you might want to do a lot more research because the mercury industry doesn't want you to know the truth. There is so much miss information out there.
sickjohnson : It seems many don't know the truth, from the florescent bulbs, to chemtrails which are infesting the soil, barium and strontium is turning up in antlers, chickens are found to have high mercury..most of us have no idea how topsy turvy the world is..
I don't know if anyone already suggested this, but if you moved the freezer and fridge outside during winter perhaps to a protected shed then the energy use would be lower for both units. heat travels from warmer to colder area. also the amount of heat transfer accelerates as the difference in temp rises. so freezer in semi warm pantry has higher heat transfer than freezer in very cold outside shed. the less heat transfer to begin with equals less motor run time to remove heat, equals less electricity used. This might be enough savings in electricity to eliminate the generator. btw great videos
You mentioned getting a Trimetric. Magnum makes a good battery monitor kit. I have one with my off grid setup and it works great, Magnum ME-BMK
Good thinking with the fridge. Definitely cuts down power consumption in winter. Keep an eye out for critters trying to get your lunch, a lock might help a little bit.
As a power doubler use mirror to double the low power you get a second sun. Works well.also cut out the middle man buy 12 volt TV and led lights at 12 volts. It works . And the lamps you can get from truck stops ur on the right track with a second sun mirrors aimed at the cells full length mirrors are best kv4li 73
In Ontario Home Depot sells a 10W led bulb, 60W equivalent for $9. Through the public utility there is a $5 dollar coupon. So it only costs $4.
In the UK, All power outlets have their own dedicated switch. It sure would be useful to have something like that over there!
You could add a temperature control outlet to turn that fridge on when in gets warmer, though the control takes precious winter power so you'd have to unplug it in the dead of winter.
You could have the refigirator in the garage or basement, A garage often have medium temperature year around. Or try to invest in a solution so you can have a refrigirator.
I really enjoyed the vid and the scripture and music at the end... very Funky!... :)
You go girl. I love your videos. Even though I could never do a quarter of what you do and how you live due to being disabled. But, I love and live it through you! You are so cool!
+Taaheatea 2k Thats awesome..and dont worry..alot of people say that couldnt live like us..or they wish they could..so your not alone! Im glad your here watching and MAY God Bless you!!
Add more insulation to your fridge and freezers. You'll be amazed how much more energy efficient they get. Just make sure you don't insulate the heat exchange (some fridge had them on the side wall).
I am not interested in going off grid, but I find your experiences VERY interesting. There are so many things that you have to consider to live off grid and I would never have thought about them.
+JoeisCooking Thank you!1 love sharing..even if one isn't going off the grid!!
As your budget alows try adding wind generators to your system. Replace that gas generator with deisal then convert it to use bio diesal. Most restaurants will be glad to let you take their used cooking oil which is easily refined into polution free bio diesal. Just a thought.
have you tried using a personal windmill, I know it seems out of the blue, but I recently heard of a boy in africa that build a windmill for his village. so I don't know if that would work. but I found it interesting.
excellent vid. gave me a lot of ideas. definitely putting my fridge outside now...
pookiroo Well remember it depends also on your array..and your battery bank. We do it since the fridge we bought is unfortunately a volt user...so for us instead of wasting so much energy during the winter..we can just put it on the porch and do it the old fashion way. I mean why not! However..alot of households with solar who have good fridges that dont use alot of energy..they are able to keep the fridge indoors all year round. So dont be discouraged....it just depends on your own situation!!
Try keeping the freezer outside plugged in. Most of the energy is lost from being in a heated area, if you keep it in the cold it will need to work less to keep cold
Try a windmill generator to make power when the sun isn't available. They run through the same Voltage regulator as your solar system and can charge up the battery bank when the sun isn't available. Good luck. You have a beautiful home and surrounding area! Thanks for sharing.
we're going to build an of grid house, but I'm spec'ing a 12kw solar array and 20 kWh battery bank (Aquion batteries, look into them they last 10x as long as lead acid, they use saltwater, can be fully discharged or operate at partial charge without damage. They claim cradle to cradle longevity).
When we were in Western Wyoming this summer a guy was telling us it is sunny pretty much all the time in the winter. I would try concentrating the sunlight with mirrors onto the panels if I was there. For your situation you should learn how to get wood gas to run your generator.
+Losif Crumb
Mirrors are tricky because they have to track the sun to keep the reflected light going onto the panels.
Hi Losif:
I was going to suggest the same thing about using a gasification system.
They have tons of resource with all of the trees.
Once the system was built (many parts can be found at a scrap yard) they would be able to run their generator for free for ever...!
Ps... The systems are not difficult to build.
Have a great day...!
Why not use a solar and windmill hybrid?
had a 2k windmill for 1 yr. not enough wind at our location. traded it out for more panels.
Starry Hilder Starry Hilder I see. Do you mind if I ask a couple of questions about using solar in an apartment setting?
huh?
Bonnie Flory, That is because they didn't know what it truly takes to install a wind turbine properly. The turbines you see barely turning all the time, and producing absolutely nothing for out put are the people who think they can install a wind turbine in no wind and still get power.
You need the turbine installed at least 60ft - 80ft high on a stable pole to get wind generation power year round, night and day. Not every single night and day, but all year round, shine or not. I will bet the turbines you are talking about are mounted only 25, maybe 30 feet high, it is not high enough. only in some locations can you mount them so low. Even other places can be mounted on the ground, like in the desert, but most places need 60ft at the least, the higher the tower, the more power you will get.
The small turbine cost only a fraction of the tower it requires will cost. It is only because of inflation and outsourcing. A good tower(in essence an 80ft pole) will cost $15,000 and a 1500watt turbine cost around $500 - $1,500. So for 1500watts of wind turbine installed correctly cost about $20,000, that is if you do it all yourself, renting the crane, buying the wire, bat, charge controller, etc...and 1500watts ain't much for $20,000, it is enough(when their is a jet stream) to heat one small well insulated room in winter(like -10 to -30 area), nothing more. And that part is more than nothing, but if we had $20,000 to spend on towers, then maybe we should. lol Just buy a better turbine since the tower cost so much, put up a 5000watt turbine instead. And buy the tower that raises and lowers without the need for a crane, they have them. lol
Bonnie Flory I knew that, I just thought they would have strong winds where they are.
Using a chest-freezer as a 'fridge is also a great saving... (better insulation + air stays in when you open the lid). So many things these days use switching power supplies, so use power even when they are idle. More panels would give better winter capacity, then in summer you could dump excess power into heating water?
Very true. Can go buy some insulation and build yourself a fridge for a lot cheaper than a commercially available one if using it for cold storage outside.
For outside use a white refrigerator is better for heat on the outside. Also an all fridge uses way less power. A two door fridge defrosts every 12 hours using a heating element in the wall of the freezer.
A friend of mine is off grid in the florida keys, everything in his house runs off of 12 volts. Not sure how but it does. He's a real wiz with the solar stuff.
I think a lot of it depends on your needs. We really technically didn't need the system we have...if a person has conservative needs 12 volt is great. Some of our off grid neighbors have just a generator and use propane for lights and refrigeration. I think me and my husband on our homestead could totally get unplugged and be just fine. We lived that way for months while building our place and it wasn't bad at all:)
You really need to think about, since you have AC lights, thinking about putting in RV 12v Lights, there are many styles, you can also use a house fixture, and put home AC style but 12v LED that fits home sockets, but wired to DC, I have many of those bulbs, LED, and Florescent..
Hey Starry, you said your refrigerator set up works for you, but I'm wondering if you considered an ice box? If seen them in antique stores, and was wondering if it would be an option, especially since you have such cold winters. I've also seen another off grid couple that uses one to good effect. You could keep it inside, so no bear worries, for example.
I have a basement "Cold Room", It is mostly below ground level with one small window and insulated from the rest of the house. Temperature in winter doesn't fall below freezing but it is cold. In summer, it remains cool.
I have my deep freezer in there to reduce the amount of electricity needed. I also have an old, but still working, fridge in there. If your fridge is put outside or in a cold room, it could remain plugged in and it would only run when the surrounding temperature is above what the fridge is set on.
For the lights, you should look into getting 12v. The higher the inverter needs to boost the voltage, the more inefficient it is. Also I take it you are using deep cycle batteries? Look into getting Lithium Ions. More expensive up front, but they last many more cycles, and you can discharge them down to around 30%, instead of 50% in deep cycles.
Might be good to plug fridge in but leave it outside in the cool months. It won't use much power at all because average temperature outside is probably pretty close to 4 degrees Celsius or whatever you set it to, so it won't actually come on very often. But at least stuff won't get too warm and spoil. Food might still spoil by freezing of course.
Thank you for sharing the information. You guys rock! God Bless.
Great video!
I found that looking at the big picture, is what led me to make my own solar panels, battery bank, etc. etc.
In the event of a power failure, in the "ON" grid world, If you can't afford to, or there is no one with the knowledge on how solar works...or how to repair them, some would not have power for long.
Learn, its never a waist of time.
+whisperingwinds2u200 How big of a waist is it?
You need to get some Harbor Freight Tools Solar Panel Kit. They work great in low light. We use them with our Ham Radio in the field. Ham Radio is something good off grid too.
Was that a dead beaver in your freezer..??? lol
@ 8:36
Great video thank you..
Sailboat wind powered generator or a much bigger one. Also if you're completely off grid then why not run 24v DC lighting (or 12v if that's better for your setup). Every time you're converting DC-to-AC or AC-to-DC your incurring loss. You can never get rid of all loss but only minimize it.
I went online to check out wind turbines and you can buy them at Walmart and Home Depot for $500 to $800. I know you have a breeze there and wind power will act as a back up generator.
she said in an above comment that they had one but found the wind was not enough for the cost. they traded it off for more panels because they provided more power (even in the winter).
great video...things that u learn from experience are the best way to learn..thanks for the info..lovely place u have.
Stephanie Hodge Thanks so much and yes, the living and learning! Its all part of the experience. And the ability to be ADAPTABLE! That is the key to survival...and the key to peace!
Great video (I saw the summer one also). Hopefully my comments are helpful and not sound too critical. Here is what I think is going on/issues with your system that I think may help:
1. Underpaneled/too low PV voltage - With the Midnite Solar Classic (I have two and a Kid) I would wire the panels for higher voltage. Right now you have 2KW with a long feeder line to the house...inefficient. During cold/winter months you should be producing enough power to run what you need...however, with a lot of batteries, takes up PV energy to charge with not much else going on. I would design your system to run in the winter months...everything else is gravy. If I had your homestead, I would be running about 4KW+ in panels at a VOC of around 120v in a 48v battery string (about 12 to 16 RE solar batteries).
2. Batteries - More is not always better...but, matching your homestead electrical use is. Panels make the power...not the batteries. However, if you run 24/7 I would def look into keeping the batteries at full charge when the sun goes down...then start the process over again the next day. Limit night time use to just the basics (freezer, a few lights, LED TV, etc-etc).
3. The GOOD stuff (being positive here). LED lighting - bonus points. Monocrystalline panels - not bad. Midnite Solar equipment - excellent. Dedicated DC appliances is your choice...IMO, not worth the additional cost if your system is set up right.
With a few modifications (more panels, higher voltages, right-sizing your battery bank) I think you will not have to run that generator quite as much. Good luck...you are ahead of the game compared to many!
You are a wealth of information. The winters hear are pretty mild in relation to what you are accustom to. I am hoping that the sunlight during those months would still be sufficient to refil the batteries on most days.
Chuck
Thank you..I try to do my best at explaining things. My husband laughs cause he thinks I talk too much!!!
Starry Hilder
Ha Ha didn't you know, all husbands think there wives talk too much. Sorry I just couldn't resist :)
I love your videos. Ill post a tip. because one more con on outside refrigerator is bears. In Alaska is they drill a 1 to 2 inch hole in the backs of their fidges, stick a steel pipe in each hole and run it through similar holes in the wall. The outside cold comes in through the pies and keeps it cool. Then in summer they plug the fridge holes and use power to cool it. That way they keep the fridge inside year round.
Patrick Germond love love this idea..thank you so much for sharing! This is what i love about you tube..great ideas!! God Bless you!!
HUGE help!! Thank you both!!
gqhall Yehawww glad we could help! The live and learn method never s stops giving!
in the UK I can get 12 6w/46w LED bulbs, screw fit for under $50, try looking on amazon UK. Also I would look into a gassifier, to run your genny off wood produced carbon monoxide.
Got rid of all the curly compact flourescent bulbs as we found to be a fire hazard -several melted into the base unit -shutting on and off on their own , enviromentaly toxic containing mercury , and last no where near the 10,000 hours stated on most packages, 4000 at the most . but had a great deal on LED's at about 7.50 per bulb and the government gave an instant rebate at the store of 6.00 each , so we kinda stocked up a bit!
Good points! thank you. I wish you had mentioned how many and what wattage panels you have. That seems to be the great question for us who are planning.
Neil Shubert We have a 2k array. Our solar panels are actually very efficient..even when there is clouds we are STILL getting some juice..so remember that. Every homesteads needs are different. during the winter we have about a month and a half of clouds..so we just learn how to be alittle more conservative. But for the most part our array has met our needs! Hope that helps!!
I noticed you said your inverter was running if you left your cell charger plunged in. This might be something to think about is having a 12 volt step down from your 24 volt solar for car chargers or cigarette lighter plugs. About 85% of the items I use from TV's, laptops, DVD players, cell phones all run DC. Look for a box plug or box in the cord, most likely running DC. Your taking 24 volt solar and inverting it to 110 AC back to 12 volt DC is a huge waste of power. I have seen big difference my charge capacity after using this trick of buy passing the inverter and steeping down the power. Hope this tip helps you out, I know I have learn a lot from your videos.
I just watched a video by Steve Armstrong about solar panel water heater. He showed a really neat way to heat water during winter by using a stainless steel tube in his wood burning stove. If you did not know of this before...
What a beautiful place
Good point about unplugging things. On-Grid folks forget that even when your cell charger is not plugged into your phone, it's still sucking electricity.
Starry, I'm curious, have you explored other LED lighting options yet?
I have a work-light for my business that uses the tape-like LED strips. Super low draw, and runs directly from 12v. So I don't need to convert it to 120, then back down to 12v.
Just found your channel today and I am not sure where you are, but where I live in the fall we get incentives to buy led bulbs like $5 off led bulbs. I buy Philips led bulbs at home depot for $8, with $5 off I'm paying $3 a bulb. Just something to keep in mind.
why not use steam turbine?.....lots of fire wood and heat the house same time..
PS: Every time you open the upright frig door, all the cold runs down and out. Then the frig must re-create that lost cold. With a chest type, you lose very little cold because it stays below heat. The outside temp keeps it inside the box.
I suggest to people to convert as much as they can afford to 12v appliances. Marine grade RV stuff is highly efficient. Use a convection cooktop and dump the microwave. If you have an open well. You can store items in the basket and it stays cold all year long.
You just have to think old school. Real world needs over wants.
Claude Rains Good advice but the flip side is..when you set up a off grid home.. the drawback with DC is that you’ll typically end up with dual household wiring systems, because very few people can live with only DC.
Most often, AC appliances are also desired, which means having two sets of wiring (DC and AC), a more expensive option. Usually the wisest choice for a modern, whole-house system is to choose all AC, buy an efficient inverter, use ultra-efficient appliances, and add a bit more energy capacity to the system to cover the inverter losses.
We have Backwoods Solar here ...a very popular supply place where they live the life and talk the talk...they sell both d/c and AC fridges and they say this about DC fridges......."
12/24 VOLT DC refrigerators & chest freezers in our catalog offer energy savings and security, by needing no inverter to function. However the most efficient AC refrigerators and freezers have more powerful compressors and shorter running times. A select few AC units are nearly as efficient as DC units. The AC power Conserv freezer in our catalog, is just as efficient as the DC units..".
IF you choose however to do both.... each DC is much better suited for those few items that need a little power available all the time. Motion sensing outdoor lights, cord-less phones and message machines, alarm system, clock-radio and a doorbell are good examples. Turning those appliances off at night and when the house is vacant to save power just defeats their purpose.
Convection stove top? Not to familiar with this..can you explain the benefit to our viewers?? I know it has to do with magnetic field transfer...but my concern is how much electricity does it use and is it dependent on it? Is so it sounds like again a convention cooktop might not be able to use the DC power? Is this correct??
What system do you have...how big? What applications in your home are you using the DC stuff.. a fridge? How big!!Love to hear more about it since you made some outstanding comments to discuss for everyone!!
I have 3kw array which produces 18kw over a 6hr day. Which is 250 ah. It's more then I need. As I converted almost everything to DC. Water heater gets the dump load. The array works more efficient this less it has to convert to AC. The only draw back is wire sizing to the main service panel cost.
I chose to use marine grade appliances where needed for reliability and efficiency reasons. This left only the convection stove top oven and AC unit to run AC. Which is run off a single 3k watt Samlex converter which is 93% efficient. The cooktop is instant heat. So it's not wasting watts getting to working temp. The oven part uses fans that are very low on watts as well. It cooks faster on less energy. The AC unit is only 550 watts at full load.
The way to figure out all your energy uses is to add up everything in watts. Don't worry about voltage. It's not important till you get high resistance appliances. As that is where you're getting hosed on energy consumption.
It all starts at the array and one reason Sanyo and Kryocea are King. They are multi crystalline panels not mono. Their rated output is real. None of this in perfect conditions fine print stuff. I install low resistance wiring. High end MPPT controllers. The best AGM batteries someone can afford unless they want to caught up $1200.00 a battery for lithium ion.
It also has to be sized right. A conversation I found on how people and contractors don't understand. That I ran across and it's true.
Solar Sizing
It does not matter if the 24 batteries are configured as 24 or 48 volt. Either way each battery will have the exact same amount of charge current. As you stated if configured as 48 volts requires you to make 3 parallel string with 8 batteries in each string. This means the current from the charge controller is divided evenly by 3. If configured as 24 volts you will have 6 parallel strings with 4 batteries in each string which means the current from the controller is divided by 6. Are you with me so far?
OK it is very simple 5th grade math from here. You have a panel wattage of 1410 watts right? (6 panels x 235 watts) If the charge controller is set up for 48 volts, the output current is 1410 watts / 48 bolts = 29.375 amps. OK you have 3 strings with a 48 volt battery setup, so that 29.375 amps is divided by 3 so each string has 29.375 amps / 3 strings = 9.79 amps/sting. That means every battery configured at 48 volts has 9.79 amps charge current. Understand?
OK if configured at 24 volts the current out from the charge controller is 1410 watts / 24 volts = 58.75 amps. With 6 strings of batteries means the current is divided by 6 right. So we have 58.75 amps / 6 strings = 9.79 amps /string.
Now you tell me which number is greater than the other: 9.79 amps/string in the 48 volt configuration, or or 9.79 amps/string in the 24 volt configuration?
Here is the real scary part. Your installer is a moron and only knows enough to be very dangerous. He is correct that too low of a charge current can cause sulfation in flooded lead acid batteries. The minimum charge current to prevent sulfation is C/12 where C = the battery amp hour capacity. Your batteries are 225 AH batteries correct? So C/12 for your batteries is 225 AH / 12 hours = 18.75 amps minimum charge current required. Guess what, no matter if you configure them for 24 or 48 volts you only have 9.79 amps of a C/23 charge current. What this means is you will destroy your batteries and neither your installer or you have a clue why. There is two ways to fix that problem. Either double your panel wattage and configure it for 48 volts, or only use 12 batteries and configured for 24 volts. Which one do you choose.
Last warning. You need to understand fully what I just told you, or else you are going to make a huge mistake. BTW, fire your contractor, he is a moron. Anyone who told you what he did and to use either 3 or 6 parallel battery strings is an idiot. If it were using 1410 watts of panels you would be using a single sting of 12 Trojan L16RE2V batteries @ 24 volts, which is the same capacity you are looking at now, just less expensive and will last longer than your T-105 batteries. But hey it is only money right, your money. Use the batteries your contractor wants will last a year or two at best. My way 5 or 6 years.
Your whole system is mismatched. Nothing is designed to work with each other. What moron came up with this?
With a 1410 watt panel system can only support a 24 volt battery system of 480 AH (C/8) 720 AH (C/12). The moron has suggested a 24 volt 1350 AH battery or over twice what a 1410 watt system can support. If you do that with parallel batteries you will be replacing your batteries every year or two.
Another thing if designed properly based on a panel wattage of 1410 watts withing the range of battery it can support only gives you around 2.4 Kwh of daily power or about 30-cents of electricity. Taht means based on what you have had recomendation mean with 3 year battery replacement will cost you some $3?Kwh. You can buy it for 10 cents per Kwh. Design it correctly and you can bring that cost down to $1/Kwh over a 10 year life.
Claude Rains I guess i'm confused at some of your observations and comments...you said you would fire our contractor because he never told us to use 3 or 6 parallel battery strings?
Are you sure you are commenting on the right video? We never talked about how our batteries are strung together?
And why would our whole system be mismatched? What gave you that idea? We have a magnum inverter, 2 MPPT charge controllers and 16 L16 Interstate 6 volt batteries. Pretty simple. We have a 2k array, Sunforce panels, 250 watts each.
Also you stated "He is correct that too low of a charge current can cause sulfation in flooded lead acid batteries" Again..I think you watched a different video...we didnt talk about any of this stuff. At all...I guess I gotta chuckle cause I think you got your video comments mixed up??
Maybe you can tell me the video time where we said all of this??
Again you stated ..."The moron has suggested a 24 volt 1350 AH battery or over twice what a 1410 watt system can support. If you do that with parallel batteries you will be replacing your batteries every year or two. "
sorry...the moron you are talking about isn't on this video!
We have a 2KW array...we dont have 1350 AH batteries..and we have had our batteries for over three years and we're not replacing anything. In fact everyone who comes up here see's how gently used they are and laughs and says our batteries will most likely last 10 plus years!
Anyway..must be wrong video....and besides...if you are going to give a comment that carries any weight and has any validity..you really should not use derogatory remarks against others...it erodes at your own comments and expertise...
God Bless and relook at the video..I think this one is a oohh ohhh..
No I'm saying look at your system and see what's actually going on from the solar panels to the batteries first. As not to many contractors or installers have a clue. It's get the sale and most give out bad information because they really don't know.
A proper system should produce more energy the colder it gets and being cloudy shouldn't cut your output more then 30% as it's not charging off visible light. It's charging from a spectrum the eyes can't see though the cloud cover. As you said you were only getting 6 amps. So something is wrong and if that continues. Your batteries will fail in short order.
I would start at how many watts everything uses. How much you use them everyday and what has to run all the time. This is actually where math can save you money, time and grief.
Claude Rains Could you post a video of your solar system ? I'm always looking for good ideas .
Same issues in Santa Fe but we use solar and wind
HI Starry and thanks for the video. With power consumption being that critical I'm curious why you don't throw cell phones in the car for an hour and charge them. One less thing on the system.
all my lights are 12 volt led but screw onto regular light socket and have couple recepticles ( plug in) my drop lights have 12 volt led bulbs and everything is marked 12 volt or 120 volt AC because if plug 120 into 12 volt no biggy but if you plug 12 volt into 120 AC you get a big bang out of it so even my control boxes are marked 12 volt or 120 AC .
It is nice because may drain shutting down the inverter but 12 volt light still work for few days, my phone charger and internet all work off of 12 volt DC.
Hello there Hilder family... May sound like a strange question but have you tried using mirror's to focus brighter light from an overcast day onto the solar panels you have. Dan at Greenpowerscience channel is claiming he gets about 30% more power and 30% more heat in the summer in a lab type experiment. I don't know what your panel array looks like so may be completely impractical idea but mirrors are pretty cheap. But if you are only getting 9 watts that's just 2.7 watts more. Also all the curly que fluorescent light bulbs (CFL) have a voltage regulator built into the bulb at the base. They do not play nice with off grid inverters. You might think you are only using 20 watts but in my example/experience they pull upwards of 75+watts. feel how much warmer the CFL is vs pre inverter living. Happy living!
How about keeping your freezer plugged to your system but having it outside in the winter? Wouldn"t that save electricity?
+Martin Faucher We do that to!! Depends on the juice! Thanks:))
Put the freezer outside and refrigerater in the house. As long as your outside temp hovers below zero you will be fine. You dont open your freezer as often as your refrigerator.
your inverter is consuming 50watt on no load by using 12vdc led light of about 6w each you can save up on your battery bank your system will be more efficient as the 12v led bulbs is consuming only 0.3A from your battery if you put 10 led bulbs on 12v it will be only 3AMP
Thanks for the great information
Heating is another source of energy to sustain power for your battery bank. I agree, winter and solar can get a bit expensive; however, that same system can be a bit excessive for spring, summer, and fall months depending on where you live. Living off-grid in the winter, for most, the main source of heat is some form of wood stoves. You can take that energy to charge your battery bank with a generator that is powered from the gases produced for your heating source. Research wood stove gasifier!
Oh and these Wind Generators are not those tiny ones, these are full size wind Mill size Wind Turbines.. Something to think of, hope this helps.. The 1600 watt is much larger power then your solar, in the winter, it would keep your power up
thank you so much for sharing!
To save on battery power to charge your cell phone, Ipad or tablet, get your self one of those inexpensive cigarette lighter adapters and connect it to 1 12V battery when you need to charge. Since your not using the inverter when charging such devices you will use a lot less wattage out of your battery banks. Don't forget to disconnect the adapter when not required.
winter all the heat items should be working off the wood stove you should have burning, makes coffee, heat food, have a water jacket for showers. I'm in Florida my nightmare is summer & 90*. running gen for AC.
This video is a perfect example of what I meant when I posted on another one of your videos that you aren't really off the grid, you just have a longer wire.
ok thanks.
I just realized how many comments I've posted to you today, I hope you take them as my feedback and not heavy criticism. I've enjoyed your videos and your house is GREAT. I just generally only post when I feel like I have something to add. I do get disappointed when people seem to think they are much more independent than they seem to be (at least from my point of view).
yes sorry..no problem. sometimes i read to many comments that have no relevance to to how i live and i may jump the gun once in awhile. we try to combine some comfort with being self relient...but we certainly dont need a internet connection if it came down to it. thats our luxery...likea radio used to be many moons ago. so yes everybody does things differently with their set up. we still have vehicles and need gas and money for certain things. noone can be 100 independent of the system today...but then again thats not what were trying t do...thanks for your feed back! mr.H
before i put up more panels id be getting more batteries for more storage seems if your running low on power then you need to store up more on the nice days to last longer on the crappy days
well heres a thought for offgrid freezer/fridge ...using a chest type freezer ( uprights not good for off grid at all )...place a cooler inside the freezer to keep items you would have in a fridge..cooler will prevent freezing ...this way you only power one appliance...and place a sheet of plastic over the top of the chest freezer but leave a cut door flap in the plastic that can be pulled back to access the cooler/fridge then...that way going into the cooler/fridge a few times a day will not disturb the temp inside the freezer section
swanyut Very intertesting..I like!
Absolutely love your trophy wall. Reminds me of my Grandfather's farm house. =)
There are super energy efficient fridge/freezers - Sun-something is the brand. They are $$$ but use significantly less energy compared to the most efficient energy star freezer.
Good tips. Best
Were those solar panels on the ground leaning up against the side of your house at ~ 11:27?
A G We dont use them:))) Not hooked up!
What is your cat doing in the freezer(8.30) ?
+Kim Fjellbo Yikes is that where he went??
I'm 'on-grid' and use power strips to minimize EMF electro-magnetic fields effects. Thinking that even if the power strip is turned off, it's still plugged in - wouldn't that cause drain some energy from the batteries?