You getting mentioned in a Totally Not Mark video is something I would have never seen coming! As a subscriber to the both of you, this is extremely cool. I'd be down for a discussion video between the two of you regarding Gohan and others.
He doesn't even have to do that, let gohan be a side character but with importance,like when they were at babidi's hideout gohan ,vegata and goku that trio was perfect.
@@sneekpeek639 If you ask me, that would've been way better than anything Super did or could've done. Better to end Goku's protag role on a high note than drag it out further and get a repeat of the Buu Saga.
@@SonnyFRST i just don't think gohan does not have that drive to be the strongest,goku had that from his childhood.i can't see goku fall that down that's just me.
@@sneekpeek639 You say it like that's our problem. A character needs hurdles to overcome, and Gohan got that in spades. They could've totally made him work as the protag in the Buu Saga, but what little time he was given as the focus was wasted on BS teenage drama.
Broku72 has a great What If story about it Future Gohan went back in time instead of Future Trunks. In it, Goku enters the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Future Gohan instead and this caused present Gohan to WANT to be the strongest and he trained with Piccolo instead, but he didn’t want to be a scholar anymore, but Earth’s protector like his future counterpart, and far surpassed Goku by the Buu saga. It’s a great way to show Goku passing the torch.
@@bernardosales1044 Sure, but doesn't change the fact that he didn't peak at the Cell Games. Gohan peaked when he went Mystic. Also Mystic Gohan is actually stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
He only peaked in character because Akira didn't want to put him on the path he's suppose to be on, the path to surpass his father (as children are meant to do). He actually went out of his way to sabotage his path.
They missed so many opportunities to make a perfect story. A son who had to live up to the greatness of his father was such a missed and relatable story.
@@SomeRandomJackAss he can actually , but the show doesn't want him to , that's the bad part , db has so much potential , imo , it can still stand up to comparison in some great shonen anime of today . can this be a possibility that they are doing it like this because of toxic fans? i mean , i've heard that people didn't like it that toriyama was planning to make gohan the main protagonist from buu saga , is it that? toxic goku fans? whatever the reason , imo , goku just looks fake when almost every other character is held back to an extent unrealistically to make plots. hehe but who knows , maybe the next season will improve these things
Despite all the missed potential for our boy I’m glad Gohan at least went for the Krillen route for some time -Stop fighting -Get a hot wife -Raise a family -Have a decent job -be happy with where you are Sounds pretty good to me
@@UmairAamir01 Not to crap on Gohan but they made him weaker than base frieza in resurrection of frieza arc, so that lumped him in with the throwaway characters. So he kind of was bad at that point
@@jantheking7028 Gohan literally killed Cell tho. Gohan is so under utilized, it's actually irritating. Also, this comment wasn't about a comparison, both Vegeta and Gohan are great.
Gohan got both the best and worst moments as a character. His fanbase is literally the only reason why Toriyama didn't completely ditch him to yamcha level
@@MrLachapell Toriyama wanted to end the series at freezer, they (jump-money) made him keep going, then he said, okay, Goku is an adult what if Gohan is the the new main character (remember the start of the buu saga?), and fans didn't like that so he just toss him aside, and argued he recognized Dragon Ball was the story of goku's life and everyone else should be secondary... Toriyama just never had that much of an artistic liberty as many seem to think. Is a miracle the buu saga is as good as it is considering the burn out he had at that moment. Plus he admitted he came with the story as he goes, so there is never an overarching theme to the sagas or to the characters in themselves.
@@Puerco-Potter You know, the whole "Toriyama wanted to end things with Freeza" is a long-standing fan theory that I've literally never seen any evidence for. If anyone can point out an interview, or something, where he says this, that would be great. If anything, the fight with Cell seems like a far more natural ending point than the fight with Freeza. Honestly, I doubt Toriyama knew where he wanted to end Dragon Ball, as he was never that great at planning things in advance (besides a few exceptions like the first SSJ transformation and Ultra Instinct).
To me the coolest moment of Gohan was that sequence with future trunks where everyone died and he became the only person able to fight the androids. In that part of the story he became a mature, reliable and thoughtful mentor that was able to fulfill the role of his father, which is a thing that we never saw again.
If Dragon Ball was about good story arcs they either have Vegeta brutalize Gohan for becoming a weakling. Especially since Gohan was capable of likely clapping Vegeta. Thus forcing Vegeta to “wake him up” so to speak. OR When Future Trunks came back, he should’ve punked Gohan by telling him how bad ass he was in the future. “Watching you die brought out the super Saiyan in me. Now it’s my turn to awaken your full power. Whether you accept or not.”
Yeah they literally just have to make him Future Gohan it's really not that difficult lol Future Gohan was awesome and he felt totally distinct from Goku, how can the small parts he had in that one movie provide so much more character than Buu Saga and Super put together? It's really such a shame how ignored he is and it's not like you have to make him as strong as Goku to be interesting, just don't make him some useless idiot...
@@mrcheesemunch You just gave me an idea. To force Gohan to step up believably and still be able to field Goku and Vegeta, strand them in separate universes for a while, so that he really has no choice but to be The Savior again. When they reunite, give more challenges that require all 3 of them. But this won't happen. Toriyama wants us to just forget what Gohan is supposed to be and accept him as hollowed.
My favorite Gohan moment in Super was watching him interact with future Trunks. It was melancholic to see Trunks seeing an adult Gohan who isn't living in a post-apocalyptic time.
My thing with gohan is that if he wants to stop fighting and have a normal life with his family, that's fine, after his fight with cell he deserves it. My problem is that the story needs to stop putting him in combat focused scenes trying to bring back the nostalgia (piccolo sacrificing himself in res f). Instead, I want a situation where while Goku and vegeta are away his family is threatened. That way he was a believable reason to get stronger.
The entirety of Gohan after (and during to an extent) Cell has been about not slacking off because one of Roshi’s earliest lessons to Goku was :There will always be someone stronger. Goku Vegeta and Piccolo understand that Gohan doesn’t want to fight and wants him to live a normal life, but even Gohan has begun to understand that there will come a time where those older than him can’t protect them forever, as evidenced by Frieza returning, his farewell to Future Trunks(knowing that he was the last of the Z warriors before Trunks), and even up to the ToP. Honestly, i was excited to see Gohan and Piccolo perform some combo techniques and even new moves in the Moro arc and if you pull back and look at his character from Buu through Super, you can see that he has been working behind the scenes to do what he can, and i think that’s where I’m personally hopeful for the guy.
@@Feedback_ATK The company needs to realize Gohan is a character worth writing for as a fighter. They seem to like him better as the family man on the sideline and let him fill that role. To me biggest proof of this is Dragon Ball Hero's. Non anine cannon and pulling any combination of re-worked characters from other dimensions but only recently added one alternate Gohan and made him a side character to a (GT aged alternate) Pan character.
I think they missed an opportunity not having Gohan be more involved in the Goku Black Arc, he would have fit perfectly narratively with how important he is to Future Trunks and served as a good lead in to the ToP.
Trunks only had one episode to interact with Gohan in that arc, but it was a really powerful one IMO. Trunks was initially put off by how much of a loser Present Gohan was compared to the Gohan he knew, but then he realized that this Gohan is way happier and better off than the Saiyan Warrior he knew from his own timeline. And unlike Goku and Vegeta, Trunks isn't going to be happy with a life of fighting, when the fight against Zamasu is over, Trunks is going to have to settle down with Mai, and live a happy life for the first time. Just like Gohan did.
Something I hated was how Gohan as a kid always would train and etc cuz he knew he needed to in order to protect his loved ones. Then after he defeats Cell, complete with Goku telling him he was passing the torch, he just decided to laze around. Chi-chi trained Goten, Tien trained, Piccolo kept training even Vegeta (who had no intentions of fighting again after Cell saga) and Kid Trunks trained. Gohan was the guy who literally had potential hidden behind potential and worked to become a scholar before deciding to irresponsibly coast by after Cell saga. Some how he was the only one to get drunk at Bulma’s party, deflected bullets in such a haphazard way that one ricocheted in to Videl, and apparently lost a form he was given for doing nothing. Had to get body blocked by someone weaker than him. Was on the verge of losing to Tagoma, who even then should’ve been weaker. Gohan was given pretty much everything someone could want in the world of Dragonball but he doesn’t do anything with and it turned out his defeat of Cell was just the starting point in what would be a record setting 7 years of waiting for Goku to save the day.
@@hitkid2456 he wants a normal life, except he should be smart enough to understand that even in oeace theres no normality to be found to a half alien with the power to blast the solar system, like its logic even for a teen that if you get too angry you could boom the earth that staying normal is heh no
Even fans of Mx0 (a manga over a decade ago cancelled by SJ after they did a reader survey thing) had it worse... They were doing a brand new arc which would be like 100+ chapters for him to get real magic powers, and it got NIPPED IN THE BUD. It can always be worse than ol' Gohan.
@@hitkid2456 I mean, I obviously exaggerated a bit. DBZ ain't even half as good enough for that statement to be anywhere accurate. For me it died off when frieza saga ended and I only enjoy the movies nowadays.
@@hitkid2456 yeah, I do feel bad for sonic fans ngl...at least sega owns the absolute powerhouse franchise Yakuza, which is made by it's own Studio, and sega luckily leaves them to do their own stuff, so they can't ruin that. (I actually would like to know if Sega influences their subsidiary game studios in terms of game development)
@@cjvaye99 'delicious old man' a sexual innuendo that stemed from an almost dead meme but resurrected by a group that paid the latin american spanish VA to say this.
From the beginning of Dragon Ball Z up until the Cell Saga I always thought they were building up Gohan to either surpass or become equals with Goku. I began to cheer for him when he actually started to train and grow. I became a fan of the character. Then they did my boy dirty. The narrative was there. I thought it was going to bloom. Although I didn't think that blooming would end with Cell.
Nope, mystic was over 2x more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, and now Gohan Beast is equal to UE Vegeta and UI Goku. Literally within one day. Vegeta was right about Gohan before the tournament, that he has the most untapped potential. It takes him literally no training at all to become uber powerful. Even weighted clothing was too much for him before Beast, the culmination of all of Gohan's power. The rage that lie within him resulting in the most insane power boosts out of anyone.
I am thinking about dropping out of school to focus on my career as a star on UA-cam. I already make a lot of money on UA-cam. School bores me so much. I need more opinions and since I don't have any friends, I gotta ask you, hb
@@AxxLAfriku Please don't. Keep youtube as a side activity. Finish school and then find a stable job. You need a secure source of income, youtube is not secure at all. You can be dropped any time for no reason at all. Copyright bullshit, Twitter cancelling you, false rape allegations and the list goes on. It's surprisingly easy to lose everything on UA-cam.
Man this is EXACTLY how I felt about Gohan. He isn't irrelevant but when he is relevant they give him 2 minutes of shine and throw him back into the trash
Someone draw a manga where Goku stays dead and Gohan & Vegeta are the two main pillars after the cell saga. Let Uncle vegeta be a mentor because their dynamic is so interesting yet completely unexplored
I like the idea of Gohan trying to just live a normal life and raise a family but just constantly being forced into conflict to protect the people he loves
@TheDudeCalledAlan Wow, I was happier man before I read this, because Toriyama could've done that! Gohan being forced to fight and protect what's important to him should've written itself. BUT, I'm a writer too, and I know first hand how story possibilities can elude you if they're never brought to your attention.
They should make Dragon Ball into a slice of life anime centering around Goten and Trunks with Gohan taking a father role as Goku and Vegeta are never around.
Or make it so that Vegeta and Goku have trancended and are around. They nlrmally don'y fight, they basically take the olace of Berrus and Whis, while Gohan is the protag
Good analysis there. Persopnally, I was sorta hoping Gohan would become another one of the super smart supporting cast like Bulma who do all of the important non-combat stuff like inventing time machines. Like, he got through Cell by becoming this unhinged murder machine and he doesn't want to be that ever again, so he devotes himself to his studies.
@@jamaali2358 - It was both, obviously. And I do mean it was entirely obvious. Electricity doesn't happen around the SS1 aura. Gohan's hair even changed, signifying the transformation. That's all without even mentioning Goku and Trunks both saying that he did "it". Also the fact that his personality changed immediately gives it away. You can quite clearly tell that Gohan lost it when 16 was destroyed. Him losing it is what pushed him over the edge and into SS2 territory. They're both rage-based techniques. In order to enter Super Saiyan, they need to use anger and rage. Not only to enter the form, but to maintain it as well. In order for Gohan to receive his power boost, he needs to be angry or experience a near-death situation. Aggressive feelings and emotions are amplified while in Super Saiyan form as well. So, Gohan basically got a Super Saiyan rage boost instead of just a normal one.
Gohan doesn't have relationship problems like vegeta, but he could've filled the role of earth's defender and as a mentor to goten and trunks. He could've had the arc of him realising that his strength is not enough to protect everyone anymore and could've had a training arc with whis. And finally complete his character arc from scared child to confident adult
I never understood why present Trunks never had a close relationship with Gohan. They don’t have to be master and pupil but at least mutual respect and kind of see eachother as brothers.
@@missxmarvel because they don’t interact, just like Gohan and Vegeta. This is exactly why I said that Dragonball needs to switch up character dynamics going forward, to be able to tell new stories and keep things fresh
@@Dhampir101980 Vegeta is an outcast. It’s expected but Gohan and Trunks were very close, Gohan could have taken the big brother role for present Trunks like he did in the future.
Because he's a hybrid Saiyan, not a pure-blooded warrior who wants to beat the crap out of everything strong. He didn't improve because he's not a mindless monkey, punching a bag for decades, he has better things to do. The problem is no one cared to show us what he achieved besides getting a gf. But that's another story.
@@meyearsago-lc8bq Dude. Hybrid or not even pan has less saiyan blood but still wants to fight in the final episodes. It’s just him being lazy and he keeps on making the same mistake of not training like in the Buu saga. Gohan could have been a change. He could have been the one with the brawn but also the brains in the Z fighters group. He could have been a father and a defender instead of hoisting himself in a gay clown costume.
The reason I've always loved Gohan, even despite his... rather poor development in some regards has always been a conflict he's had that no other character has managed particularly well... even him at points. Gohan desires normalcy... to live a simple life. No fighting for his life against universal opponents. No training for the next big bad. He wants to settle down and have peace. Dragonball, as a story, doesn't allow him this... And that's what always stuck with me about him growing up. I was always deemed extremely academically gifted and had an explosive temper, in one case putting a classmate in the hospital. Gohan was, at first an outlet for my temper. A power fantasy as you described... but... as time went on after the Cell Saga... I began to idolize his desire to not fight. To settle and live a simple life. From after the Cell Saga on, Gohan's conflict has always been surrounded with his desire for normalcy and the inevitable pull of the supernatural. He wants to be a Scholar for his mom, normal. He wants to be a fighter for his dad, supernatural. And... that's were I really see him shine as a character... and why I can see why a lot of people don't like him now. The arc doesn't really fit with most of dragonball, hence his random powerups and such to remain relevant. I can also see why a lot of people wouldn't really like him after he lost that appeal of being OP. But... for people like me? I owe that character arc a lot. It helped me vent that anger, and find an outlet to seek. Something to actually push towards in my life... hence why I have a fiancé and I'm going to be married within the next few years. I desired to be well... normal. Gohan is different to any other dragonball character... and I can see why he's honestly not a good character within the context of the story... but that's why I like him.
@@arthurleonardo4285 I agree, I love him as a character in retrospect. He’s an interesting character with differing motivation. I haven’t watched a lot of Super to even know much of where he goes and evolves.
Alot of people say that the good writing for Gohan stopped in Cell Saga, but honestly, one of the most underrated moments I feel for Gohan was his ascension into stepping in his father's shoes as the new strongest defender of Earth, taking on his dad's Gi and going to fight Super Buu. This was the pinnacle of his character to me, and its a shame that they ultimately decided to cut him off & instead have Goku come back to finish things.
I always say that Gohan was never well written in Z, Cell Saga being some of the worst writing in the series. The only time I think Gohan actually had some writing chops going on was Great Saiyaman, the episode with Adult Gohan and Future Trunks, and Gohan being a dad in Super but that's about it.
I think it's interesting to reanalyse him through the lens of someone with potential PTSD (he was always shown to be sensitive and scared as a child, while Goku was confident, ready to take on the world), someone who has had difficulty defining himself, torn between abusive/neglectful father figures and an extreme level of pressure/expectation from his mother. If we take this perspective, his arc makes a lot more sense imo, especially when he accepts both his intelligence as well as his fighting skills, he defines himself as a different sort of warrior from his Dad, and can step out of his shadow.
He's waaaaaay better in the manga. Fighting Kefla, deciding to train for the sake of the world and protecting his family AND remain a scholar, not wanting to take the same route his dad took but discover a new form by himself, becoming the 3rd strongest fighter on the planet again etc. etc.
One thing that has plagued Shonen manga for a long time now is how rooted the story is on it's main character. You can't have Fist of the North Star without Kenshiro, you can't have Naruto without Naruto himself. When Araki killed Jonathan at the end of Jojo Phantom Blood, that was a really bold move, specially for the time when that was published. You can see that in Joseph's design and story. He's alsmot one to one visually with Jonathan, and is almost directly related to him. He's a complete 180 in personality, though. Gohan is, in my opinion, what happens when an author tries to pull the same technique as Araki, but fails to change the flow and hooks of the plot to suit the new character. The plot inevitably goes back to it's roots and forces Goku back, and Gohan's character in turn becomes hollow. He's there as a reminder of what could've been, of a plot that never really existed.
If you new writers weren’t scared to give old characters their own training Arc then people like Gohan and Piccolo could have a training arc and get their power relevant again by training with whis.
Nah. Can't have side characters outdo Goku and Vegeta as the main focus. But seriously, it would be nice if all of the side characters could've kept up with the Saiyans.
@@sunnywhite196 Crazy part is, DBZ did this all the time. Super is just lame so we’ll likely never see Gohan or Piccolo getting the shine they deserve.
@@chewezx1767 They gave Gohan a little bit of a chance to shine with the preliminary bout with the wolf whose name I don't remember. He just got cocky and then got blasted in the face.
Personally, I feel like Adult Gohan's strengths would have lined him up for much better plotlines if his adult relationships were framed better. If he realized his ideal image of his parents and their relationship wasn't real, that his arrogance is still a deep rooted issue (and no one gets over that in a day), and that his academic knowledge isn't useless in a fight. I feel a lot of that has to do with how they developed Videl, who is arguably Gohan's closest relationship as an adult, and who he'd talk to most. If you look at all the other relationships, there is confrontation in marriage. All the married couples fight with each other from time to time, while still clearly loving each other. But there's even confrontation among friends/family with your SO. But that never happens because they made her 100% docile, and by extension taking away some logical reasons for Gohan to fight and grow. After Videl finds out about Gohan killing Cell, she becomes perfect girly house-wife, which is completely opposite from her tom-boy-esque "come fight me" introduction. We see this even more with the Saiyaman Movie episodes when there's pictures of Gohan with another woman. Videl is surprisingly chill about it when we should have seen a scene like Lily fighting that chick who hit on Marshal in HIMYM. She doesn't hold Gohan accountable for anything, or him her. It's only positives with that relationship, which isn't realistic. According to most relationship specialists, your relationship to your spouse will many times mimic your parents' relationship, especially when it comes to arguments. We definitely don't see Chichi and Goku in them, and given Hercule divorced her mom, we likely don't see that either. I could go on this topic for hours with countless episodes and comic pages of proof, and have before. So, I'll cut myself short here and sum up. Toriyama, didn't want to flesh out another female character (not the first time he's done that), so to make things easy, made Videl suddenly amenable to anything. Given she was Gohan's love interest, a character who has always broken his limits for the people he loves being in immediate peril, her lacking development caused his development to slack as well. There was definitely potential for it, as we saw when Spopavitch beat the crap out of her. But nothing was done with it. She didn't join the fighters, which would have been a good step for her, given her hero hobby. She didn't pursue more training under Gohan, which she logically would have. And if he said no, she was definitely the type to ask others in the group to train her. But that didn't happen. Even her competitive and stubborn aspects were stripped away to make her more amenable to the other characters. And because of that, Gohan's closest adult relationship doesn't build him as a character at all, but stagnates him as also being poorly amenable.
While I actually agree with most of this, i think the thing about gohan being shown with other woman not angering videl is pretty bad point in otherwise great read about what happened with them. While yeah, peoples romantic relationships are often reflective of their marriages, its not literally always the case. The idea of Videl simply handling it calmly is actually seen as rather mature to me imo. Yeah; younger tomboy videl would’ve been on his ass about it. But Videl has grown and she’s definitely not as prone to anger or jumping to conclusions out of insecurity or something like characters like chi-chi. I don’t personally see it as a bad thing that she proclaims that she knows her husband and trusts him because she knows he’d never do that and doesn’t need to be held accountable of anything, because he was very clearly being set up. While videls personality was certainly stripped and that all relationships (even good ones) have disagreements from time to time. I think “genuinely believing your husband would cheat on you” is a bit of a stretch too far. I don’t find it unrealistic or unhealthy or poorly written at all for videl to simply have firm enough head on her shoulder to recognize a trick for what it is and truly trust in her spouse. I for one, actually liked the moment because its literally the one time we see into some of the depths of videl and get a glimpse at who she actually is a character. The ability to see the ruse for what it was stems from Mr. Satan and his ways of being skeptical towards the unbelievable but also just her years or a crime fighter and actively being skeptical of the golden warrior, great saiyaman, the fighters who fought cell, gohan and mr satans own accomplishments. Chi chi is canonically a country bumpkin in the manga who has very traditional views on marriage and family (something kinda written out in english dubs of the series) And bulma used to be a character referenced and known tk freak out and jump to conclusions in early bits of the db manga (specifically by her mom and just in showing how she reacts to crazy situations) But videl? Specifically in the manga, she figured out gohan was the great saiyaman by genuinely investigating and tricking gohan into admitting it on his own through a play on words (something cut from the anime adaption) So idk, while young videl wouldve saw through the ruse too, she still probably would’ve been flustered and irrationally mad at gohan I think her being mature but upset and figuring out that this stuff was obviously a ruse is actually one of the rare and genuine shows of her character. Harkening back to elements of who she used to be, showing that theres depth beyond what she’s be reduced to now, but also showing how she’s grown as a person and how she’s grown with gohan.
And for the record; i could be wrong, but i have a feeling you genuinely have more to say on the topic and so do i- Issue is that my phone is bonkers and shows me no new reply notifications without me going to check the video comments myself. So until i get a new one and download the app there; i’ll never actually see what you had to say. I rarely ever say this when i comment, but i wanted to this time cause i got a feeling you genuinely want to discuss more with this but i’ll have little way of finding you or your replies and comments again after this. So sorry in advanced if you say something profound and I randomly forget to check someday and stop responding. This is a genuinely interesting topic thats fun to talk about. I just wanted to at least get your point on the saiyaman movie thing off my chest, even if won’t be able to see your response! And if i misread it you and you’re NOT in the mood to discuss this further; just ignore these. Just wanted to give you a genuine disclaimer as to why I’ll suddenly go silent if you write something! I’m also sorta busy rn, ever since I noticed this issue with the phone (even after deleted and redownloading the app itself) i tended to come back and check videos i wanted to responses on, but contrary to how it seems; i have a life outside of this and am kinda busy rn. So the odds of me remembering to check to see it you respond later today, or even consistently overtime at all are slim! So when i get my new phone someday and I randomly come across this comment and finally respond, potential years or months after the fact, thats why lol
@@theradionicrevival8068 Don't worry. I love to discuss this stuff too. And I think you misread what I'd meant by Videl's reaction to the frame up. It's not bad that she knows Gohan well enough to know he wouldn't cheat. That's base level trust. But she doesn't haul ass on the actress who was trying to seduce him, I do not buy. There is maturity and there is indifference. Just blanketly forgiving the actress, who knew he was married and tried anyway, would not happen. I'll frame it from my own relationship, which I've been married for 7-8 years, been with my husband for 10. We have a mature relationship built on love and trust. My husband and I both get kicks when we hear one of us has been hit on by a stranger, especially if it's done in front of our spouse. We laugh and joke about it because we know neither of us would ever cheat. But if someone we actually know, say at church, or from work, or whatever, actually tried to make a move on either of us, there would be scorched earth where that person once stood. And that's not immaturity. That's putting someone who knew better back in their place. That doesn't mean I'm mad at my husband either for being in that position. I'd be mad at the bitch who thought. However, we don't get that from Videl. She's just kind of ok this woman put her husband in difficult, awkward position with plans to sabatoge their marriage. That's not the Videl who jumped into burning buildings and blackmailed the cute guy at school into sharing his secret identity and forcing him to give her flying lessons. In the Saiyaman movie arc, Videl exhibited doormat behavior, which the Videl Gohan fell in love with would never. None of this is saying she had to stay a tomboy forever. People grow, and that's good. And while Videl would mellow, that is not a logical level of mellow she'd go to. ESPECIALLY since her parents got divorced when she was young because her father was a habitual cheater. (While no, it's not specifically stated, we do know they are divorced and Hercule's habit around pretty women is enough to make that logical assumption. Especially with Videl's comments around it. And that in the comics, when Gohan said Goku was dead, then introduced her to him, she recalibrated to thinking Goku and Chichi were divorced, and Goku was with another woman.) My belief, as a writer myself and having read the comics as well as watched both versions of Z, is that Videl's exaggerated mellowing is because Toriyama doesn't know how to write women. He's got 3 already spitfire women married to Goku, Vegeta, and Krillin. I believe he was worried Videl would start to seem cookie cutter in comparison, and mellowed her out as an adult. However, he did it to a point that was neither believable or healthy relationship-wise, and hurt Gohan's character progression in Super. Gohan could have had a better comeback, but his fans were just left disappointed because he has no drive since his life is too pristine.
@@theradionicrevival8068 Also, what I meant by struggles within the relationship is that you don't really see them face obstacles together. When Pan was sick, Gohan was flying around looking for the dragon balls (when advil would have sufficed). We don't see Videl struggling with Gohan's arrogant attitude, which we would. That kind of character flaw crops up in every aspect, it really has no bearing on their relationship? I don't buy it. What we should have seen was Gohan and Videl competing to be the better parent, just like we saw them competing on being the best superhero of Satan City. While Gohan knew he was stronger, he still played that competitive game with Videl on the superhero front. Why don't we see it on the parenting front? The scoreboard of changes diapers. The "Your turn" moments every parent has when the baby wakes up in the middle of the night. Gohan struggling to put Pan to sleep, while Videl does it easily. Or Goku teaching Pan something Videl doesn't like, and her telling Gohan to talk with him about. Or Chichi. We see none of these situations, which would definitely crop up, and would definitely frame character issues or arcs much better. There is very little going wrong between them and their in-laws, which would not happen, and is unhealthy when it comes to relationships. This puts forth an indifferent relationship rather than a loving relationship. I think Keanu Reeves said it best, "If you're a lover, you have to be a fighter. Because if you don't fight for your love, what kind of love do you have?" Gohan was ALWAYS someone who fought for his love and loved ones. But now that he's married with a family, his love for them suddenly isn't enough for him to break through like it used to? Problematic.
@@TheChosenOnesTime please realise that there are people like me who think attack on Titan is just a good show. I even stopped watching it from 2 weeks because I lost interest in it.
I swear there's more nuance to the Gohan debacle. But if you're perfectly content with Gohan getting humiliated as oppose to just being left alone (forgotten in a sense like Tien and Yamcha, but without the comedic relief), then it's easier for the brain to overgeneralize it as "hurr durr they just want Chad-han."
I think the real issue is that it's a fighting series and Gohan has a mostly normal life. He might be useful with a spin off series revolving around the great saiyaman thou.
No, issue is that he was sidelined as character. Gohan didn't train much after Cell saga and then he goes trough buu saga. After that ordeal do you think gohan would just forget to become stronger ? Unlike Goku, Gohan doesn't enjoy fighting he fights to protect everything he holds dear and that was supposed to be his motivation to become stronger. So they sideline him by making him forget lesson he learned before and make him learn it again. He regressed becasue writers didn't want him strong for some reason. It is so bad that Frieza and 17 get to participate in final fight but Gohan loses by not even being able to take out his opponent alone.
“Though I will give you a chance to shine during the Tournament of Power. A chance, mind you, because we know you’re done. We have decided to bring back Android 17, Android 18 and Frieza.”
Gohan peaked in the Boo arc when he pursued his dream of being a scholar and it worked extremely well with the main theme of the series: “The Pursuit of Happiness”
@@doraball6114 That was the only part of this video I disagree with Mark on. Gohan's Arrogance plot got dropped because it didn't really make sense. He already learned it when Cell almost destroyed the Earth after Gohan's SS2 transformation. In Super there felt like a lot of places/roles that Gohan could have played, but were given to other characters. Hell, he said he was giving to surpass Goku without relying on Super Saiyan, and they gave Goku a non-Saiyan power with UI. White Gohan was a goddamn ToP meme.
I liked the scene in TOP when Gohan and Piccolo teamed up against the two Namekians from Universe 6. The storytelling was incredible. Piccolo messing up but being saved by Gohan when it was the other way around when he was a kid. Piccolo seeing Kami and Nail which is amazing because for years we've known they are still there but getting a visual of that hit you in the feels. Gohan preparing his final attack with his guard down because he knows Piccolo is there to back him up. The second father son kamehameha. Just amazing storytelling. But like you said, it was lost in the shuffle because we couldn't fully absorb what happened because right after two universes got erased and the focus shifted. The TOP continued so we couldn't fully appreciate the moment for what it was. That was one of the few episodes of Super that can stand with Z IMO.
Wish that he grew up to be someone that understood that in order to protect his family, he had to balance career with training. Because he'll end up losing everything if he isn't prepared to fight. But thats just me
Gohans basically the head of the fodder z squad now. Like he's strong asf but he ain't strong enough to make a change in battle or in the story like goku and vegeta
You have no idea how long I've been waiting for this. To me, like to many people, Gohan should be the best character. I'm glad you followed up the original video.
Personally i liked gohan the most during the highschool arc where he interacted with "normal" society and his relationship with videl and his class mates
Gosh I wish we could see them especially sharpner I'm sure he owns a big gym wherever he is and would go crazy if he meets the greatest baseball player yamcha
While I can agree that DBS's portrayal of Gohan was frustratingly inconsistent, I actually preferred when they fully leaned into the notion of him settling down as a family man. Some of my favorite episodes were the mini-arc where an entitled movie star tries steeling his wife, and Gohan shows that even if he's not the strongest in the universe, he's still no one to be trifled with. I doubly loved that mini-arc for Videl and how because Gohan is such good and reliable husband, she completely shrugs off the pictures of Gohan with another woman, trusting that Gohan would have a reasonable explanation. I especially love how it flew in the face of certain kinds of "fans" who expressed their dissatisfaction with Gohan by suggesting Videl would leave him for some alpha-chad meathead.
@@Deathmare235 the end of the Cell saga was undeniably a passing of the torch moment, they tried having Gohan as the lead in the Buu saga, people didn’t like it because it wasn’t written that well, and Goku was brought back first temporarily, and then permanently.
@@Slender_Man_186 I think it wasn't written poorly at all. Dragonball fans unfortunately just love the status quo, by and large, despite claiming to want something different. What came to be known as the buu saga started off good, even if it was very different from what fans had come to expect. It didn't last very long, but I think if the series had kept going in that direction, it would have greatly benefit from it.
@@brian9967 but it was pretty poor, it was awkward teen love drama that Toriyama admits to not being good at writing. It was only when Goku came back that things pick up again because Tori knows how to write Goku, he’s familiar to him.
And they can make that his reason for training but to also juggle it with work, making him an actual character and making him more interesting again unlike Goku who’s become less and less interesting
@@JamailvanWestering right I like that about gohan now but I feel like I actually wanna see him progress in training. all his training since the top has been off screen.
All of characters needs to do that. But gohan can counts on his father and his friends. Also in manga science top he's putting effort into beeing better fighter. His cooperation with piccolo deserves prise IMO.
Now that you bring it up, Vegeta being the one to help Gohan overcome his arrogance would have been awesome. Gohan and Vegeta don’t interact at all anymore, and it would be interesting to see how their relationship develops without Goku around. I think it could benefit them both.
@@riteshjadhav1382 yeah. Dragonball should switch up the character dynamics from time to time to avoid staleness.Plus that would also free up Goku to spend more time with Goten training and giving him some development as well without always needing to partner up with Trunks
@@Dhampir101980 super hints things but doesn't fulfil all of them , mostly it does to make plots not story , remember there's a scene in super, vegeta was disappointed with the thing that gohan stopped training , i don't remember the exact words he said something like what a waste or pathetic but hinting that he was just disappointed that gohan's potential got wasted. hope next season we get to see character progression amazingly done in general with good story.
A while back when I introduced my friend to Dragonball, he pointed out that Goku being the main focus of the series was odd because Gohan was much more relatable. When he discovered how Gohan would eventually end up in the Buu saga, he was heartbroken and largely lost interest in the series. So much lost potential...
Wanna know what feels wrong? God Ki training without Gohan, the guy who pulled the Z Sword. The guy with the Mystic Form. The guy who has a reason to hang around Shin for training who is intrinsically linked to Beerus. Heck, bring Piccolo along. But using just Piccolo as a punching bag feels like a disservice to both characters.
Mark, I absolutely love hearing you talk about dragon ball. Youve opened me up to criticisms i hadnt thought about before, and hearing you speak on them you can tell it comes from a place of love and affection for a series that has shaped all our lives. Never stop doing what you do. Cant wait for super to back back stronger than ever. The manga has been turning out some of supers best stuff since the anime ended, and I cant wait to hear you talk about the anime version.
It’s funny how Gohan was the leader of the U7 team in the Tournament of Power but he never even had the chance to fight Jiren It shows how the writers cared about Frieza and 17 waaay more than Gohan in the ToP
This! Like imagine Gohan fighting Jiren and getting absolutely stomped, but then using his intelligence to land a good hit.. That would be fire. Maybe Jiren seeing Gohan's potential or something and directly comparing it to UIO Goku. Maybe even a Gohan and Goku moment or a Gohan and Vegeta moment where they egg him on to stay focused and vice versa.
PTSD Gohan becomes the next supervillain; negatively spiralling down until he uses the powers he's spent so long ignoring to flip out and destroy half of earth's population. The power, saiyan rage and arrogance are firmly in the driver's seat. Goku has a space to come back as the hero because Gohan fans just want someone to save their boi and gohan has to claw his way through the issues we were expecting to tackle with him as the protagonist in the buu saga. BAM!
I agree. Thematically and narratively it made way more sense than what the buu arc eventually devolved into and Toriyama should have stuck to his guns. The problem is db fans are so stubborn, they cannot accept anything new. We only want new villains, new powerups, higher and higher stakes. Almost all of Super is this same regurgitated garbage, it's so embarrassing I just pretend it doesn't exist. How do you even fix this?
@@brian9967 everything you just said is absolutely right , we also need to change ( the fans ) like we are a literal joke to all the fanbases because of that “can he beat goku “ meme , no , goku can’t beat superman ( well not ALL versions of him ) , goku can’t solo gurren Lagan , and no Saint saya ( I freaking butchered it ) stomps medium diff
@@brian9967 and I absolutely want to see a new superpower , or hax , the new granolah arc gave him ( granolah) reality warping abilities, so we are going to the right direction
@@brian9967 Tbh I was fine with Buu. I honestly think the route he went with was good but with small changes, mostly involving changing the narrative to focus on Gohan and giving a bit more shine to other Z fighters, it could’ve been phenomenal. But there is something about seeing a humble “super “ trying to fit in , especially one that lost his childhood because he was too busy basically saving the universe, that’s just.... interesting? Idk It’s so fun watching Gohan get bullied by a guy that couldn’t even scratch him but Gohan still doesn’t get mad. He is so pure at heart that he basically just cannot comprehend why someone would act like that. Same goes for his relationship with Videl. “Man I cannot understand girls” because he almost never interacted with one in that way. The saiyaman arc used the best aspects of Gohan when he is not going apeshit(which obviously is cool, but I love the simple things too)
@@brian9967 About Super... yeah I can see why you prefer that. The people who were responsible for it (at least the anime version) just didn’t have a grasp or proper respect to the core of the characters. They literally make it feel like Goku was all good with sacrificing the multiuniverse for a good fight. (Yeah, in the end it was worth it but he didn’t know it). The manga does a far better job imo in regards to understanding him and the other characters, but there are still may points in the narrative that are fully Toriyama’s fault (such as putting Gohan into the pits of Irrelevance). Toyotaro did his best to change that with the Moro arc and some of the ToP. The anime did it better with the ToP and Gohan, but the overall structure could not be saved.... Gohan is dead in Super. On the other hand, Vegeta is treated really damn fine, so there is still a reason to be interested in the series imo
Nadie se lo espero la verdad hahaha! Pero hay un canal latino que está subiendo memes en inglés entre ellos el de Viejo sabroso y se ha vuelto algo popular y más conocido
This video damn near sums up the entire super hero movie and exactly how I’ve been feeling about the show. Interested to hopefully hear a review of that movie as well to break that down as well
I think you could legitimately do some story stuff with Gohan being a father. Maybe have him struggle with the idea of introducing Pan to fighting at a young age or at least fighting big threats due to all of the things he was forced to go through as a kid.
I kind of feel bad for Gohan fans (including myself); he's been mishandled for so long that we'll just accept the literal scraps they give him, because that's literally ALL he has and without them, he'd really nothing be nothing.
Another great arc for Gohan would be understanding what fighting means to him. If you look back on several of his best fights, he suffers from overconfidence to a fatal degree. To me, it’s him mimicking the fighters that have raised him, flaws and all. Goku has always seemed overconfident in his abilities and is constantly separate from his own family because of his love for martial arts. Piccolo is a master martial artist who knows his strengths and weaknesses inside and out, and always seems confident because of this, so on and so forth. It’s like Gohan puts on a persona specifically for fighting his enemies in order to prepare himself to do something he hates and feel confident enough to win, thus he becomes overconfident when he is the strongest guy in the room and is forced to fight. If he is shown what martial arts means to, let’s say, Goku, he could be shown why he loves it so much. Because Goku believes everyday can be better then the last, and so could he. He projects this mentality into his fights, and thus changes his opponents for the better, at least sometimes. Gohan could take away that idea of always self improving and project that instead of the overconfident persona he believes is the key to victory. P.S. this would come full circle in the TOP when he fights the family man, he would struggle with the idea fighting someone who is also being forced to fight to protect his loved ones, but he doesn’t regret the fight, only that he lost his family
Gohan is one of my favorite Dragonball characters and I totally agree. He peaked in the cell saga and was never the same. I will admit I did like they gave him some development in the tournament of power sage but it certainly wasn't enough. Gohan should be the antithesis to the norm character. He hates fighting and only does it to protect those he cares about. There's that moment in the tournament where No 17 blasts the love maidens during their transformation since they left themselves open. That should have been Gohan, since he has given in to his need to fight at times despite hating it, that should be his continuation. Unlike Goku and Vegeta who want the best kinds of fights, Gohan should want to try to end things quickly (at least now that he overcame his eagerness). I get dragonball's appeal comes form the transforming the 100% full power fights, believe me I love it too, but at least focusing on Gohan's desire to win for safety sake I'd argue could keep him relevant and give him a reason to actually fight to become stronger. What's to stop him form having 5 Sayians around him and giving him the red hair? Himself. If he still needs to fight and decides he needs the strength, he'd go for it. JUST WRITE HIM IN A MORE INTERESTING WAY.
Thank you totally not mark for all your amazing content. You should really start a Podcast i could listen to you talk about anime of all kinds for hours
Hey mark, your reviews and opinions really make me open my eyes to story writing and the standard you have for anime/manga and I totally agree with you. since you have a good look at anime, etc. I want to be a manga artist, so right now I'm trying to formulate the best, unique, story-advancing I can and I was wondering you should make a video on what makes an anime story good and talk about the elements. i love your videos, keep it UP!
I think it would have been cool if Gohan fighting Goku happened at the end of Super. Hear me out Goku started the tournament of power which almost led to the destruction of multiple universes and you see a little bit of hints that Gohan is pissed off at that. One moment in particular during the tournament that stood out to me was when he knocked that one guy out and he dropped the picture of his family that get's erased right in front of Gohan and Gohan looks pissed. Now the series goes to great lengths to not blame Goku (Even though it was totally his fault.) but can you imagine if at the end of the tournament Gohan pissed at his dad for his recklessness and callous disregard for not only other universes but his own challenges him to a fight and win or lose Gohan Permanently distances himself from Goku saying he can't be near someone who gleefully puts his family in danger. It would be SOOO good to see Gohan put his wife and kids over his dad plus it would make a good Vegeta moment where Gohan put Pan and Videl over the warrior path. AND it would put Some consequences for Goku constantly putting the chase of the next fight over everything else.
It's Goku's fault the guys in charge are assholes who look for any reason to destroy everything? How could he have known the only reason they wanted to host the tournament was to see if they should erase everything? All they said was they were considering hosting a tournament for all universes. There was no mention of them destroying everything until the last second. Is it your fault if you invite your best friend to your mother's birthday party and he kills her and everybody else there in front of you? How could you be so reckless? That logic makes no sense.
Great video! I love these Anatomy Of Anime videos you do. I don't know if you plan to cover other character, but I would love see one of Eraserhead or Levi. Love your channel man!
Pretty much sums up EXACTLY How I felt about his story arc in super! I love that they even put in the tournament of power but they still did him dirty!! Also I love the FF 7 song at the end!! It reminds me of Zack who also has a special place in my heart. Also, I kinda feel like Gohan and Zach share a few things in common and they give me the forgotten character vibes! Keep it up!!
You highlight an interesting problem I currently find myself having with Dragon Ball in general right now, not just with Gohan. It's no slight against him but Vegeta's a better main character than everyone including Goku right now and the more I think about it the more I wonder if that hasn't accidentally been the case since Buu.
Honestly, as soon as Goku started poking around with the whole Tournament of Power with a god that obviously didn't give two shits if he destroyed the cosmos, and Goku getting excited by it, I was done with Goku and Super in general. Bring on more arcs like the Goku Black arc and I would've been happy.
Great video. Since the Cell saga, I’ve always thought the most underused relationship in Dragon Ball is Gohan and Vegeta‘s. The two have known each other since Gohan's first battle and then became allies only after he surpassed him. I’m hoping we see something in the next manga arc but I'm not holding my breath
This was an amazing video! You just gave me a thought about the new Arc that's out now I think that gohan will step up and go toe to toe with Granola due to them having to overcome their past selves and from what the Oracle fish stated in the chapter about another strong warrior is about to emerge soon
For some reason I'm thinking that in the future Mark will make a video about DBZ Abridged Goku, his tone and development throughout the series, as well as his impact on the entire Dragon Ball franchise as a whole, and Goku's character specifically. And the thumbnail will have his name written in crayons with the subtitle simply being "Muffin Button".
Do keep in mind, TNM barely even mentioned Buu Saga Gohan because there's next to nothing to talk about, and not one hint of GT, a series where his daughter is one of the main characters. This isn't a Super problem, this just what happens when a character has no where to go after their story has ended (Cell Saga).
@@wolfgod6443 True, but out of those the only one to pretend Gohan was gonna be in the spotlight was the Buu Arc. And even then you could tell Goku was just lingering and Toriyama was just waiting to swap them out since he preferred writing for Goku. The Buu Arc may have been the beginning to Gohan's downward spiral and certainly contains many disappointing and contrived moments but Super pretended to address this when all it did was more of the same, it was like rubbing salt into the wound in that case. GT is more a case of Pan's wasted potential since it was pretty clear Gohan was a side character much like the rest of the cast.
@@Shift_Salt I don't know, Gohan had some great interactions and fights in the ToP. I'd say they told a successful story with him. I don't really want him to be the main character, but I do want him to find balance in his two lifestyles, and at least they've been working towards that...Slowly.
@@Shift_Salt I mean, when we go back to Gohan during the Baby Arc he does some cool stuff, and shows that he hasn't really let his work or family life get in the way of his training.
I believe Akira Toriyama once gave an interview where he said, " Dragon Ball is the story of Son Goku". Which is fine, but in that case the DB Universe deserves more spin-off stories for its side characters. They don't even have to be battle shounen, I would take slice of life in the DB Universe.
Hey Mark, Just wanting to show my appreciation for the videos you put out. The work, knowledge and the passion you give off during each video shows how much you care. Not only are your videos entertaining but they are educational and packed to the brim with great insight. Its clear you critique heavily because you enjoy the show and you want to provide more than just a biased fan boi's opinion. Keep up the good work!
Great video! The idea of Gohan has always been stronger than the character; maybe one day he'll realize that potential.
Yooo, you in the video. Love your vids.
Yhhhhh no character will ever get their shine, Vegeta won't even get a win.
You getting mentioned in a Totally Not Mark video is something I would have never seen coming!
As a subscriber to the both of you, this is extremely cool. I'd be down for a discussion video between the two of you regarding Gohan and others.
HAH bet
It’s almost like grape happened to make a video on him hmmmmm ;)
maybe when dragon ball superity duper comes out in 2046, we can get a grandpa gohan that is the “complete character”
Fancy seeing you here
I want to see Adult Gohan meet grandpa gohan.
Dragon ball super gt
Hahaha
@@jantheking7028 In heaven? O_O
The old Gohan ain't never coming back for one simple reason: they're never going to let Goku pass the torch.
He doesn't even have to do that, let gohan be a side character but with importance,like when they were at babidi's hideout gohan ,vegata and goku that trio was perfect.
@@sneekpeek639 If you ask me, that would've been way better than anything Super did or could've done. Better to end Goku's protag role on a high note than drag it out further and get a repeat of the Buu Saga.
@@SonnyFRST i just don't think gohan does not have that drive to be the strongest,goku had that from his childhood.i can't see goku fall that down that's just me.
@@sneekpeek639 You say it like that's our problem. A character needs hurdles to overcome, and Gohan got that in spades. They could've totally made him work as the protag in the Buu Saga, but what little time he was given as the focus was wasted on BS teenage drama.
Broku72 has a great What If story about it Future Gohan went back in time instead of Future Trunks. In it, Goku enters the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with Future Gohan instead and this caused present Gohan to WANT to be the strongest and he trained with Piccolo instead, but he didn’t want to be a scholar anymore, but Earth’s protector like his future counterpart, and far surpassed Goku by the Buu saga. It’s a great way to show Goku passing the torch.
Gohan: Wow, I wonder what's next for me?
Piccolo: ...You peaked.
Gohan: What?
Piccolo: You peaked.
I guess Mystic Gohan never existed huh?
Oh wait...
@@alitafullarmor5957 He did, then did nothing and was almost immediately surpassed by SSJ3 Goku/ Vegito
@@bernardosales1044 Sure, but doesn't change the fact that he didn't peak at the Cell Games. Gohan peaked when he went Mystic.
Also Mystic Gohan is actually stronger than SSJ3 Goku.
@@alitafullarmor5957 peaked in character. not power.
He only peaked in character because Akira didn't want to put him on the path he's suppose to be on, the path to surpass his father (as children are meant to do). He actually went out of his way to sabotage his path.
They missed so many opportunities to make a perfect story. A son who had to live up to the greatness of his father was such a missed and relatable story.
Yeah, but A Hero's Legacy kind of tapped that potential.
This.
It’s the goku show, unfortunately the son can never fill the fathers shoes
@@surume6627 Especially when the father is still wearing them.
@@SomeRandomJackAss he can actually , but the show doesn't want him to , that's the bad part , db has so much potential , imo , it can still stand up to comparison in some great shonen anime of today . can this be a possibility that they are doing it like this because of toxic fans? i mean , i've heard that people didn't like it that toriyama was planning to make gohan the main protagonist from buu saga , is it that? toxic goku fans? whatever the reason , imo , goku just looks fake when almost every other character is held back to an extent unrealistically to make plots. hehe but who knows , maybe the next season will improve these things
Despite all the missed potential for our boy
I’m glad Gohan at least went for the Krillen route for some time
-Stop fighting
-Get a hot wife
-Raise a family
-Have a decent job
-be happy with where you are
Sounds pretty good to me
In a normal world that'd be amazing
Basically the perfect life for ma boi
And that's something gohan "fans" will never truly appreciate about his character. They're so lukewarm about him.
yeah is horrible how people expect to see their favorite character being cool and fight in a fight based anime/manga (?
@@geimo accept your place alongside us Yamcha, Krillin, Piccolo and Tien fans where you belong.
Gohan: *trains for like 2 episodes*
“We were bad, and now we’re good”
They didn’t even use the hyperbolic time chamber and we know it’s still used because Vegeta and Goku used it earlier in Super.
@@phsquared1000 Vegeta destroyed it in the Goku Black arc.
@@SamUnderStars Vegeta literally uses it before the ToP
We were weak, but now we are strong*
(I know your caption is from that meme template, but they were never bad xD. So.... )
@@UmairAamir01 Not to crap on Gohan but they made him weaker than base frieza in resurrection of frieza arc, so that lumped him in with the throwaway characters. So he kind of was bad at that point
Great video! Love all of these! Gohan was my favourite growing up and it really does kill me they don't use him to his full potential :(
Vegeta's better than Gohan. Heck, even trunks better. Gohan has always been overated.
Janthe king
Vegeta is crap
So is overrated poop trunks
@@human3213 Gohan fanboy in denial.
@@jantheking7028 Gohan literally killed Cell tho. Gohan is so under utilized, it's actually irritating. Also, this comment wasn't about a comparison, both Vegeta and Gohan are great.
Whoa. Just got finished watching one of your videos. This is a crossover I didn't expect. Also, Manga Gohan does get a little more love!
Gohan got both the best and worst moments as a character. His fanbase is literally the only reason why Toriyama didn't completely ditch him to yamcha level
I just don't understand why he built him up for 2 arcs, then having him shine on the 3rd and 4rd and then just ditch him
@@MrLachapell Toriyama wanted to end the series at freezer, they (jump-money) made him keep going, then he said, okay, Goku is an adult what if Gohan is the the new main character (remember the start of the buu saga?), and fans didn't like that so he just toss him aside, and argued he recognized Dragon Ball was the story of goku's life and everyone else should be secondary... Toriyama just never had that much of an artistic liberty as many seem to think. Is a miracle the buu saga is as good as it is considering the burn out he had at that moment. Plus he admitted he came with the story as he goes, so there is never an overarching theme to the sagas or to the characters in themselves.
@@Puerco-Potter You know, the whole "Toriyama wanted to end things with Freeza" is a long-standing fan theory that I've literally never seen any evidence for. If anyone can point out an interview, or something, where he says this, that would be great. If anything, the fight with Cell seems like a far more natural ending point than the fight with Freeza.
Honestly, I doubt Toriyama knew where he wanted to end Dragon Ball, as he was never that great at planning things in advance (besides a few exceptions like the first SSJ transformation and Ultra Instinct).
@@christianflora2316 exactly, its not like the frieza arc really wrapped up many character arcs, there was still a lot of stuff out in the open.
He was just next in line after OG Z squad, Piccolo, Goten and Trunks. This was bound to happen and DBS just sealed the deal with mishandling them.
To me the coolest moment of Gohan was that sequence with future trunks where everyone died and he became the only person able to fight the androids. In that part of the story he became a mature, reliable and thoughtful mentor that was able to fulfill the role of his father, which is a thing that we never saw again.
Future gohan is my favorite
If Dragon Ball was about good story arcs they either have Vegeta brutalize Gohan for becoming a weakling. Especially since Gohan was capable of likely clapping Vegeta. Thus forcing Vegeta to “wake him up” so to speak.
OR
When Future Trunks came back, he should’ve punked Gohan by telling him how bad ass he was in the future. “Watching you die brought out the super Saiyan in me. Now it’s my turn to awaken your full power. Whether you accept or not.”
Yeah they literally just have to make him Future Gohan it's really not that difficult lol Future Gohan was awesome and he felt totally distinct from Goku, how can the small parts he had in that one movie provide so much more character than Buu Saga and Super put together? It's really such a shame how ignored he is and it's not like you have to make him as strong as Goku to be interesting, just don't make him some useless idiot...
@@mrcheesemunch You just gave me an idea. To force Gohan to step up believably and still be able to field Goku and Vegeta, strand them in separate universes for a while, so that he really has no choice but to be The Savior again.
When they reunite, give more challenges that require all 3 of them.
But this won't happen. Toriyama wants us to just forget what Gohan is supposed to be and accept him as hollowed.
It's ironic because Future Gohan became more mature while standard Gohan became more powerful.
My favorite Gohan moment in Super was watching him interact with future Trunks. It was melancholic to see Trunks seeing an adult Gohan who isn't living in a post-apocalyptic time.
When a character grows up and cuts their hair they always end up being wack.
This is...suprisingly accurate.
@@codingoftheuniverse8355 goku knew this rule lol
@@AntwoneAntJackson lol Vegeta too.
I never did like Yamcha's short cut.
and tien
My thing with gohan is that if he wants to stop fighting and have a normal life with his family, that's fine, after his fight with cell he deserves it. My problem is that the story needs to stop putting him in combat focused scenes trying to bring back the nostalgia (piccolo sacrificing himself in res f). Instead, I want a situation where while Goku and vegeta are away his family is threatened. That way he was a believable reason to get stronger.
The entirety of Gohan after (and during to an extent) Cell has been about not slacking off because one of Roshi’s earliest lessons to Goku was :There will always be someone stronger. Goku Vegeta and Piccolo understand that Gohan doesn’t want to fight and wants him to live a normal life, but even Gohan has begun to understand that there will come a time where those older than him can’t protect them forever, as evidenced by Frieza returning, his farewell to Future Trunks(knowing that he was the last of the Z warriors before Trunks), and even up to the ToP.
Honestly, i was excited to see Gohan and Piccolo perform some combo techniques and even new moves in the Moro arc and if you pull back and look at his character from Buu through Super, you can see that he has been working behind the scenes to do what he can, and i think that’s where I’m personally hopeful for the guy.
@@adzlarchive6487 yeah I definitely want it to happen, I just don't think it will
@@Feedback_ATK The company needs to realize Gohan is a character worth writing for as a fighter. They seem to like him better as the family man on the sideline and let him fill that role.
To me biggest proof of this is Dragon Ball Hero's. Non anine cannon and pulling any combination of re-worked characters from other dimensions but only recently added one alternate Gohan and made him a side character to a (GT aged alternate) Pan character.
At the same time, I do feel he has some responsabilitu
*Ghostly voice* Baby Sagaaaaa~
I think they missed an opportunity not having Gohan be more involved in the Goku Black Arc, he would have fit perfectly narratively with how important he is to Future Trunks and served as a good lead in to the ToP.
Yeah this would have been more interesting.
Please stop, i don't need another reason to be sad
Gotta milk that Goku and Vegeta cow.
Trunks only had one episode to interact with Gohan in that arc, but it was a really powerful one IMO. Trunks was initially put off by how much of a loser Present Gohan was compared to the Gohan he knew, but then he realized that this Gohan is way happier and better off than the Saiyan Warrior he knew from his own timeline. And unlike Goku and Vegeta, Trunks isn't going to be happy with a life of fighting, when the fight against Zamasu is over, Trunks is going to have to settle down with Mai, and live a happy life for the first time. Just like Gohan did.
Yoooo hire this mannn
Something I hated was how Gohan as a kid always would train and etc cuz he knew he needed to in order to protect his loved ones. Then after he defeats Cell, complete with Goku telling him he was passing the torch, he just decided to laze around. Chi-chi trained Goten, Tien trained, Piccolo kept training even Vegeta (who had no intentions of fighting again after Cell saga) and Kid Trunks trained. Gohan was the guy who literally had potential hidden behind potential and worked to become a scholar before deciding to irresponsibly coast by after Cell saga.
Some how he was the only one to get drunk at Bulma’s party, deflected bullets in such a haphazard way that one ricocheted in to Videl, and apparently lost a form he was given for doing nothing.
Had to get body blocked by someone weaker than him.
Was on the verge of losing to Tagoma, who even then should’ve been weaker.
Gohan was given pretty much everything someone could want in the world of Dragonball but he doesn’t do anything with and it turned out his defeat of Cell was just the starting point in what would be a record setting 7 years of waiting for Goku to save the day.
He wanted a normal life. That's something that happens to heroes a lot of times, and from an early age, his life had been hell.
@@hitkid2456 man just got kidnapped 2 Time in the same day when he was four.i think its easy to Say why he want a normal life
@@hitkid2456 he wants a normal life, except he should be smart enough to understand that even in oeace theres no normality to be found to a half alien with the power to blast the solar system, like its logic even for a teen that if you get too angry you could boom the earth that staying normal is heh no
Being a Gohan fan is the biggest Blue balls relationship a human being can have.
Being a SEGA fan is worse. Trust me.
Even fans of Mx0 (a manga over a decade ago cancelled by SJ after they did a reader survey thing) had it worse... They were doing a brand new arc which would be like 100+ chapters for him to get real magic powers, and it got NIPPED IN THE BUD. It can always be worse than ol' Gohan.
@@hitkid2456 I mean, I obviously exaggerated a bit. DBZ ain't even half as good enough for that statement to be anywhere accurate. For me it died off when frieza saga ended and I only enjoy the movies nowadays.
@@hitkid2456 yeah, I do feel bad for sonic fans ngl...at least sega owns the absolute powerhouse franchise Yakuza, which is made by it's own Studio, and sega luckily leaves them to do their own stuff, so they can't ruin that. (I actually would like to know if Sega influences their subsidiary game studios in terms of game development)
As a Gohan lover it hurts really bad. 💔
LETS GO WE HAVEN'T HAD ONE OF THESE IN A WHILE
ZEKE TURNS LEVIS MEN INTO TITANS THEN LEVI KILLS THEM ALL
ZEKE BLOWS UP LEVI AND ESCAPES
HANGE DIES
MIKASA KILLS EREN&FLOTCH
@@TheChosenOnesTime cringe
@@TheChosenOnesTime imagine being this much of a lowlife lmao
JAEGERIST damn thats crazy, i dont care at all in the slightest whatsoever, though
@@TheChosenOnesTime AoT has dethroned MHA, Dragon Ball, JoJo, and Naruto as the most cringe and toxic fandom.
I didn't expect you'd add the "viejo sabroso" video LMAOO
ZEKE TURNS LEVIS MEN INTO TITANS THEN LEVI KILLS THEM ALL
ZEKE BLOWS UP LEVI AND ESCAPES
HANGE DIES
MIKASA KILLS EREN&FLOTCH
@@TheChosenOnesTime What? Is this a spoiler that I don't understand?
it was so funny
@@TheChosenOnesTime I'm up to date with that manga. Nice try tho, loser.
JAEGERIST damn thats crazy, i dont care at all in the slightest whatsoever, though
2:01 I wasn't expecting the ''viejo sabroso'' there
What's that mean
@@cjvaye99 sweet old man, in the worst meaning possible. It's a meme in latino, it used to say "viejo asqueroso", disgusting old man
@@cjvaye99 'delicious old man' a sexual innuendo that stemed from an almost dead meme but resurrected by a group that paid the latin american spanish VA to say this.
From the beginning of Dragon Ball Z up until the Cell Saga I always thought they were building up Gohan to either surpass or become equals with Goku. I began to cheer for him when he actually started to train and grow. I became a fan of the character. Then they did my boy dirty. The narrative was there. I thought it was going to bloom. Although I didn't think that blooming would end with Cell.
Nope, mystic was over 2x more powerful than SSJ3 Goku, and now Gohan Beast is equal to UE Vegeta and UI Goku. Literally within one day. Vegeta was right about Gohan before the tournament, that he has the most untapped potential. It takes him literally no training at all to become uber powerful. Even weighted clothing was too much for him before Beast, the culmination of all of Gohan's power. The rage that lie within him resulting in the most insane power boosts out of anyone.
@@Valientlink who the hell told you beast was equal to Ultra Ego and UI?
@@BloxTheMvp Toriyama said Gohan was the strongest and recent chapters in the manga suggest it's likely
Goddamn, he's already dead, why gotta massacre my boy even more? Great vid tho, nonetheless!
“Stop, stop! He’s already dead!” -Simpsons
I am thinking about dropping out of school to focus on my career as a star on UA-cam. I already make a lot of money on UA-cam. School bores me so much. I need more opinions and since I don't have any friends, I gotta ask you, hb
@AxxL dont wait for 100K
@@AxxLAfriku i dont recomend you drop out cuz UA-cam is a Hit or miss.
@@AxxLAfriku Please don't. Keep youtube as a side activity. Finish school and then find a stable job. You need a secure source of income, youtube is not secure at all. You can be dropped any time for no reason at all. Copyright bullshit, Twitter cancelling you, false rape allegations and the list goes on. It's surprisingly easy to lose everything on UA-cam.
Man this is EXACTLY how I felt about Gohan. He isn't irrelevant but when he is relevant they give him 2 minutes of shine and throw him back into the trash
Kinda true. He's basically the head of the fodder z squad. Like he's strong asf but he ain't strong enough to make a change like goku and vegeta
ZEKE TURNS LEVIS MEN INTO TITANS THEN LEVI KILLS THEM ALL
ZEKE BLOWS UP LEVI AND ESCAPES
HANGE DIES
MIKASA KILLS EREN&FLOTCH
@@TheChosenOnesTime I've read the manga I know.
@@MAR-sc7np bruh why this is a dbz video
@@coreyrutland9586 your talking to the wrong person.
Someone draw a manga where Goku stays dead and Gohan & Vegeta are the two main pillars after the cell saga.
Let Uncle vegeta be a mentor because their dynamic is so interesting yet completely unexplored
I like the idea of Gohan trying to just live a normal life and raise a family but just constantly being forced into conflict to protect the people he loves
@TheDudeCalledAlan
Wow, I was happier man before I read this, because Toriyama could've done that!
Gohan being forced to fight and protect what's important to him should've written itself. BUT, I'm a writer too, and I know first hand how story possibilities can elude you if they're never brought to your attention.
Kazuma Kiryu from Yakuza
The fact that the editor used the "viejo sabroso" meme, my goodness mark give that man a raise he is a Real one
Este es uno de los últimos lugares en los que pensé encontraría el meme.
The what?
What? Time stamp?
@@TheBluePhoenix008 2:02
@@donatellohamato748 what does it mean?
And when the Dragon Ball Z fanbase needed him most, he returned.
Then he vanished once again 🔥
@@dekaritheprofessor2631
Just like Vegeta.
Then he returned to the dark times
But what are the dark times
Dragon ball evolution 2 ideas
Me: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
They should make Dragon Ball into a slice of life anime centering around Goten and Trunks with Gohan taking a father role as Goku and Vegeta are never around.
Would be awesome and give us some gotenks content
Yh like a spin-off
Sounds like a good idea. They'll never do it.
Oh god no
Or make it so that Vegeta and Goku have trancended and are around.
They nlrmally don'y fight, they basically take the olace of Berrus and Whis, while Gohan is the protag
Good analysis there. Persopnally, I was sorta hoping Gohan would become another one of the super smart supporting cast like Bulma who do all of the important non-combat stuff like inventing time machines. Like, he got through Cell by becoming this unhinged murder machine and he doesn't want to be that ever again, so he devotes himself to his studies.
The idea of gohan struggling through arrogance with vegeta as his mentor is pure genius
A horrible idea!
@@pn2294 lmao vegeta is still arrogant it's part of his character
@@jamaali2358 that’s the problem
Besides Vegeta is Goku’s rival. Gohan needs to have his own cast if he doesn’t want to be a poor man’s Goku
@@pn2294 Cell saga was a bit of a mess too did he ascend to the next level or unlock his rage potential WTF Toriyama
@@jamaali2358 - It was both, obviously. And I do mean it was entirely obvious. Electricity doesn't happen around the SS1 aura. Gohan's hair even changed, signifying the transformation. That's all without even mentioning Goku and Trunks both saying that he did "it". Also the fact that his personality changed immediately gives it away. You can quite clearly tell that Gohan lost it when 16 was destroyed. Him losing it is what pushed him over the edge and into SS2 territory. They're both rage-based techniques. In order to enter Super Saiyan, they need to use anger and rage. Not only to enter the form, but to maintain it as well. In order for Gohan to receive his power boost, he needs to be angry or experience a near-death situation. Aggressive feelings and emotions are amplified while in Super Saiyan form as well. So, Gohan basically got a Super Saiyan rage boost instead of just a normal one.
Gohan doesn't have relationship problems like vegeta, but he could've filled the role of earth's defender and as a mentor to goten and trunks. He could've had the arc of him realising that his strength is not enough to protect everyone anymore and could've had a training arc with whis. And finally complete his character arc from scared child to confident adult
I never understood why present Trunks never had a close relationship with Gohan. They don’t have to be master and pupil but at least mutual respect and kind of see eachother as brothers.
@@missxmarvel because they don’t interact, just like Gohan and Vegeta. This is exactly why I said that Dragonball needs to switch up character dynamics going forward, to be able to tell new stories and keep things fresh
@@Dhampir101980 Vegeta is an outcast. It’s expected but Gohan and Trunks were very close,
Gohan could have taken the big brother role for present Trunks like he did in the future.
Because he's a hybrid Saiyan, not a pure-blooded warrior who wants to beat the crap out of everything strong. He didn't improve because he's not a mindless monkey, punching a bag for decades, he has better things to do.
The problem is no one cared to show us what he achieved besides getting a gf. But that's another story.
@@meyearsago-lc8bq Dude. Hybrid or not even pan has less saiyan blood but still wants to fight in the final episodes.
It’s just him being lazy and he keeps on making the same mistake of not training like in the Buu saga.
Gohan could have been a change. He could have been the one with the brawn but also the brains in the Z fighters group.
He could have been a father and a defender instead of hoisting himself in a gay clown costume.
The reason I've always loved Gohan, even despite his... rather poor development in some regards has always been a conflict he's had that no other character has managed particularly well... even him at points.
Gohan desires normalcy... to live a simple life. No fighting for his life against universal opponents. No training for the next big bad. He wants to settle down and have peace.
Dragonball, as a story, doesn't allow him this...
And that's what always stuck with me about him growing up.
I was always deemed extremely academically gifted and had an explosive temper, in one case putting a classmate in the hospital.
Gohan was, at first an outlet for my temper. A power fantasy as you described... but... as time went on after the Cell Saga... I began to idolize his desire to not fight. To settle and live a simple life.
From after the Cell Saga on, Gohan's conflict has always been surrounded with his desire for normalcy and the inevitable pull of the supernatural.
He wants to be a Scholar for his mom, normal.
He wants to be a fighter for his dad, supernatural.
And... that's were I really see him shine as a character... and why I can see why a lot of people don't like him now. The arc doesn't really fit with most of dragonball, hence his random powerups and such to remain relevant. I can also see why a lot of people wouldn't really like him after he lost that appeal of being OP. But... for people like me? I owe that character arc a lot. It helped me vent that anger, and find an outlet to seek. Something to actually push towards in my life... hence why I have a fiancé and I'm going to be married within the next few years. I desired to be well... normal.
Gohan is different to any other dragonball character... and I can see why he's honestly not a good character within the context of the story... but that's why I like him.
damn. Why did none talked about this comment?
beautiful comment
@@arthurleonardo4285they’re not meant to relate to it
@@stefanroche3052 still,its so good and talks so well of gohan's character
@@arthurleonardo4285 I agree, I love him as a character in retrospect. He’s an interesting character with differing motivation. I haven’t watched a lot of Super to even know much of where he goes and evolves.
JAJAJAJAJAJA no me esperaba el meme de Androide 17 diciendo “viejo sabroso” 🤣
🖤🖤🖤 aun no me la creo yo jaja
Cuando los memes latinos de anime trascienden fronteras de lenguaje.
Puro meme ball super
@@TheMemeXp1 stfu we don't speak immigration
@@Markone99 ?
Alot of people say that the good writing for Gohan stopped in Cell Saga, but honestly, one of the most underrated moments I feel for Gohan was his ascension into stepping in his father's shoes as the new strongest defender of Earth, taking on his dad's Gi and going to fight Super Buu. This was the pinnacle of his character to me, and its a shame that they ultimately decided to cut him off & instead have Goku come back to finish things.
Agreed, the ending to Z was a complete letdown because of how they handled Gohan, at least for me.
Its forgotten because Gohan took the L anyway and got outshined again so much for that symbolism
I always say that Gohan was never well written in Z, Cell Saga being some of the worst writing in the series.
The only time I think Gohan actually had some writing chops going on was Great Saiyaman, the episode with Adult Gohan and Future Trunks, and Gohan being a dad in Super but that's about it.
Dbz logic :- spirit bomb is the answer to every villian
Gohan never had good writing. His best writing was when he wasn’t constantly surrounded by his dad’s friends.
Gohan is like A Persona 4 character trying to discover who he is as a person
But because gohan isn’t fleshed out it leaves a lot to be desired.
ZEKE TURNS LEVIS MEN INTO TITANS THEN LEVI KILLS THEM ALL
ZEKE BLOWS UP LEVI AND ESCAPES
HANGE DIES
MIKASA KILLS EREN&FLOTCH
@@TheChosenOnesTime The sky is blue after the ground turns red
JAEGERIST damn thats crazy, i dont care at all in the slightest whatsoever, though
@@TheChosenOnesTime lmao
Imagine not reading the manga smh
I think it's interesting to reanalyse him through the lens of someone with potential PTSD (he was always shown to be sensitive and scared as a child, while Goku was confident, ready to take on the world), someone who has had difficulty defining himself, torn between abusive/neglectful father figures and an extreme level of pressure/expectation from his mother. If we take this perspective, his arc makes a lot more sense imo, especially when he accepts both his intelligence as well as his fighting skills, he defines himself as a different sort of warrior from his Dad, and can step out of his shadow.
He's waaaaaay better in the manga. Fighting Kefla, deciding to train for the sake of the world and protecting his family AND remain a scholar, not wanting to take the same route his dad took but discover a new form by himself, becoming the 3rd strongest fighter on the planet again etc. etc.
Agreed, the manga handles him way better.
When he said “El Hermano de Jiren” I felt that
Más bien lokita
One thing that has plagued Shonen manga for a long time now is how rooted the story is on it's main character. You can't have Fist of the North Star without Kenshiro, you can't have Naruto without Naruto himself.
When Araki killed Jonathan at the end of Jojo Phantom Blood, that was a really bold move, specially for the time when that was published. You can see that in Joseph's design and story. He's alsmot one to one visually with Jonathan, and is almost directly related to him. He's a complete 180 in personality, though.
Gohan is, in my opinion, what happens when an author tries to pull the same technique as Araki, but fails to change the flow and hooks of the plot to suit the new character. The plot inevitably goes back to it's roots and forces Goku back, and Gohan's character in turn becomes hollow. He's there as a reminder of what could've been, of a plot that never really existed.
If you new writers weren’t scared to give old characters their own training Arc then people like Gohan and Piccolo could have a training arc and get their power relevant again by training with whis.
Nah. Can't have side characters outdo Goku and Vegeta as the main focus. But seriously, it would be nice if all of the side characters could've kept up with the Saiyans.
The power creep is way too high for that to be plausible
@@sunnywhite196 Crazy part is, DBZ did this all the time. Super is just lame so we’ll likely never see Gohan or Piccolo getting the shine they deserve.
@@chewezx1767 They gave Gohan a little bit of a chance to shine with the preliminary bout with the wolf whose name I don't remember. He just got cocky and then got blasted in the face.
Maybe a side manga like mha does
Personally, I feel like Adult Gohan's strengths would have lined him up for much better plotlines if his adult relationships were framed better. If he realized his ideal image of his parents and their relationship wasn't real, that his arrogance is still a deep rooted issue (and no one gets over that in a day), and that his academic knowledge isn't useless in a fight. I feel a lot of that has to do with how they developed Videl, who is arguably Gohan's closest relationship as an adult, and who he'd talk to most. If you look at all the other relationships, there is confrontation in marriage. All the married couples fight with each other from time to time, while still clearly loving each other. But there's even confrontation among friends/family with your SO. But that never happens because they made her 100% docile, and by extension taking away some logical reasons for Gohan to fight and grow.
After Videl finds out about Gohan killing Cell, she becomes perfect girly house-wife, which is completely opposite from her tom-boy-esque "come fight me" introduction. We see this even more with the Saiyaman Movie episodes when there's pictures of Gohan with another woman. Videl is surprisingly chill about it when we should have seen a scene like Lily fighting that chick who hit on Marshal in HIMYM. She doesn't hold Gohan accountable for anything, or him her. It's only positives with that relationship, which isn't realistic. According to most relationship specialists, your relationship to your spouse will many times mimic your parents' relationship, especially when it comes to arguments. We definitely don't see Chichi and Goku in them, and given Hercule divorced her mom, we likely don't see that either.
I could go on this topic for hours with countless episodes and comic pages of proof, and have before. So, I'll cut myself short here and sum up. Toriyama, didn't want to flesh out another female character (not the first time he's done that), so to make things easy, made Videl suddenly amenable to anything. Given she was Gohan's love interest, a character who has always broken his limits for the people he loves being in immediate peril, her lacking development caused his development to slack as well. There was definitely potential for it, as we saw when Spopavitch beat the crap out of her. But nothing was done with it. She didn't join the fighters, which would have been a good step for her, given her hero hobby. She didn't pursue more training under Gohan, which she logically would have. And if he said no, she was definitely the type to ask others in the group to train her. But that didn't happen. Even her competitive and stubborn aspects were stripped away to make her more amenable to the other characters. And because of that, Gohan's closest adult relationship doesn't build him as a character at all, but stagnates him as also being poorly amenable.
While I actually agree with most of this, i think the thing about gohan being shown with other woman not angering videl is pretty bad point in otherwise great read about what happened with them.
While yeah, peoples romantic relationships are often reflective of their marriages, its not literally always the case.
The idea of Videl simply handling it calmly is actually seen as rather mature to me imo. Yeah; younger tomboy videl would’ve been on his ass about it. But Videl has grown and she’s definitely not as prone to anger or jumping to conclusions out of insecurity or something like characters like chi-chi. I don’t personally see it as a bad thing that she proclaims that she knows her husband and trusts him because she knows he’d never do that and doesn’t need to be held accountable of anything, because he was very clearly being set up.
While videls personality was certainly stripped and that all relationships (even good ones) have disagreements from time to time. I think “genuinely believing your husband would cheat on you” is a bit of a stretch too far. I don’t find it unrealistic or unhealthy or poorly written at all for videl to simply have firm enough head on her shoulder to recognize a trick for what it is and truly trust in her spouse.
I for one, actually liked the moment because its literally the one time we see into some of the depths of videl and get a glimpse at who she actually is a character.
The ability to see the ruse for what it was stems from Mr. Satan and his ways of being skeptical towards the unbelievable but also just her years or a crime fighter and actively being skeptical of the golden warrior, great saiyaman, the fighters who fought cell, gohan and mr satans own accomplishments.
Chi chi is canonically a country bumpkin in the manga who has very traditional views on marriage and family (something kinda written out in english dubs of the series)
And bulma used to be a character referenced and known tk freak out and jump to conclusions in early bits of the db manga (specifically by her mom and just in showing how she reacts to crazy situations)
But videl? Specifically in the manga, she figured out gohan was the great saiyaman by genuinely investigating and tricking gohan into admitting it on his own through a play on words (something cut from the anime adaption)
So idk, while young videl wouldve saw through the ruse too, she still probably would’ve been flustered and irrationally mad at gohan
I think her being mature but upset and figuring out that this stuff was obviously a ruse is actually one of the rare and genuine shows of her character. Harkening back to elements of who she used to be, showing that theres depth beyond what she’s be reduced to now, but also showing how she’s grown as a person and how she’s grown with gohan.
And for the record; i could be wrong, but i have a feeling you genuinely have more to say on the topic and so do i-
Issue is that my phone is bonkers and shows me no new reply notifications without me going to check the video comments myself. So until i get a new one and download the app there; i’ll never actually see what you had to say.
I rarely ever say this when i comment, but i wanted to this time cause i got a feeling you genuinely want to discuss more with this but i’ll have little way of finding you or your replies and comments again after this.
So sorry in advanced if you say something profound and I randomly forget to check someday and stop responding.
This is a genuinely interesting topic thats fun to talk about. I just wanted to at least get your point on the saiyaman movie thing off my chest, even if won’t be able to see your response!
And if i misread it you and you’re NOT in the mood to discuss this further; just ignore these.
Just wanted to give you a genuine disclaimer as to why I’ll suddenly go silent if you write something! I’m also sorta busy rn, ever since I noticed this issue with the phone (even after deleted and redownloading the app itself) i tended to come back and check videos i wanted to responses on, but contrary to how it seems; i have a life outside of this and am kinda busy rn. So the odds of me remembering to check to see it you respond later today, or even consistently overtime at all are slim!
So when i get my new phone someday and I randomly come across this comment and finally respond, potential years or months after the fact, thats why lol
@@theradionicrevival8068 Don't worry. I love to discuss this stuff too. And I think you misread what I'd meant by Videl's reaction to the frame up. It's not bad that she knows Gohan well enough to know he wouldn't cheat. That's base level trust. But she doesn't haul ass on the actress who was trying to seduce him, I do not buy. There is maturity and there is indifference. Just blanketly forgiving the actress, who knew he was married and tried anyway, would not happen.
I'll frame it from my own relationship, which I've been married for 7-8 years, been with my husband for 10. We have a mature relationship built on love and trust. My husband and I both get kicks when we hear one of us has been hit on by a stranger, especially if it's done in front of our spouse. We laugh and joke about it because we know neither of us would ever cheat. But if someone we actually know, say at church, or from work, or whatever, actually tried to make a move on either of us, there would be scorched earth where that person once stood. And that's not immaturity. That's putting someone who knew better back in their place. That doesn't mean I'm mad at my husband either for being in that position. I'd be mad at the bitch who thought.
However, we don't get that from Videl. She's just kind of ok this woman put her husband in difficult, awkward position with plans to sabatoge their marriage. That's not the Videl who jumped into burning buildings and blackmailed the cute guy at school into sharing his secret identity and forcing him to give her flying lessons. In the Saiyaman movie arc, Videl exhibited doormat behavior, which the Videl Gohan fell in love with would never.
None of this is saying she had to stay a tomboy forever. People grow, and that's good. And while Videl would mellow, that is not a logical level of mellow she'd go to. ESPECIALLY since her parents got divorced when she was young because her father was a habitual cheater. (While no, it's not specifically stated, we do know they are divorced and Hercule's habit around pretty women is enough to make that logical assumption. Especially with Videl's comments around it. And that in the comics, when Gohan said Goku was dead, then introduced her to him, she recalibrated to thinking Goku and Chichi were divorced, and Goku was with another woman.)
My belief, as a writer myself and having read the comics as well as watched both versions of Z, is that Videl's exaggerated mellowing is because Toriyama doesn't know how to write women. He's got 3 already spitfire women married to Goku, Vegeta, and Krillin. I believe he was worried Videl would start to seem cookie cutter in comparison, and mellowed her out as an adult. However, he did it to a point that was neither believable or healthy relationship-wise, and hurt Gohan's character progression in Super. Gohan could have had a better comeback, but his fans were just left disappointed because he has no drive since his life is too pristine.
@@theradionicrevival8068 Also, what I meant by struggles within the relationship is that you don't really see them face obstacles together. When Pan was sick, Gohan was flying around looking for the dragon balls (when advil would have sufficed). We don't see Videl struggling with Gohan's arrogant attitude, which we would. That kind of character flaw crops up in every aspect, it really has no bearing on their relationship? I don't buy it.
What we should have seen was Gohan and Videl competing to be the better parent, just like we saw them competing on being the best superhero of Satan City. While Gohan knew he was stronger, he still played that competitive game with Videl on the superhero front. Why don't we see it on the parenting front? The scoreboard of changes diapers. The "Your turn" moments every parent has when the baby wakes up in the middle of the night. Gohan struggling to put Pan to sleep, while Videl does it easily. Or Goku teaching Pan something Videl doesn't like, and her telling Gohan to talk with him about. Or Chichi. We see none of these situations, which would definitely crop up, and would definitely frame character issues or arcs much better.
There is very little going wrong between them and their in-laws, which would not happen, and is unhealthy when it comes to relationships. This puts forth an indifferent relationship rather than a loving relationship. I think Keanu Reeves said it best, "If you're a lover, you have to be a fighter. Because if you don't fight for your love, what kind of love do you have?" Gohan was ALWAYS someone who fought for his love and loved ones. But now that he's married with a family, his love for them suddenly isn't enough for him to break through like it used to? Problematic.
They really just didn’t know what to do with Gohan after the Cell Saga
ZEKE TURNS LEVIS MEN INTO TITANS THEN LEVI KILLS THEM ALL
ZEKE BLOWS UP LEVI AND ESCAPES
HANGE DIES
MIKASA KILLS EREN&FLOTCH
@@TheChosenOnesTime please realise that there are people like me who think attack on Titan is just a good show. I even stopped watching it from 2 weeks because I lost interest in it.
JAEGERIST damn thats crazy, i dont care at all in the slightest whatsoever, though
I think you spoilin on the wrong video bro
@@TheChosenOnesTime don’t care
didn’t ask
Thanks for being critical of the character without being one of those guys who just want him to be just like he was in the Cell Saga.
I swear there's more nuance to the Gohan debacle. But if you're perfectly content with Gohan getting humiliated as oppose to just being left alone (forgotten in a sense like Tien and Yamcha, but without the comedic relief), then it's easier for the brain to overgeneralize it as "hurr durr they just want Chad-han."
They only way The Gohan character would have reached its peak of Goku stayed dead like the original plan was.
I think the real issue is that it's a fighting series and Gohan has a mostly normal life.
He might be useful with a spin off series revolving around the great saiyaman thou.
No, issue is that he was sidelined as character. Gohan didn't train much after Cell saga and then he goes trough buu saga. After that ordeal do you think gohan would just forget to become stronger ? Unlike Goku, Gohan doesn't enjoy fighting he fights to protect everything he holds dear and that was supposed to be his motivation to become stronger.
So they sideline him by making him forget lesson he learned before and make him learn it again. He regressed becasue writers didn't want him strong for some reason. It is so bad that Frieza and 17 get to participate in final fight but Gohan loses by not even being able to take out his opponent alone.
"i want more development!"
"sure ill give you a arc"
"oh tha-"
"PSYC you peaked at the cell saga"
"fu-"
“Though I will give you a chance to shine during the Tournament of Power. A chance, mind you, because we know you’re done. We have decided to bring back Android 17, Android 18 and Frieza.”
@@iantaakalla8180 lOl
Gohan peaked in the Boo arc when he pursued his dream of being a scholar and it worked extremely well with the main theme of the series: “The Pursuit of Happiness”
Ayy DoraBall comment.
You gotta admit though, Super did drop the ball
@@nabbit5574 what up! And yes dbs gohan is awful. Toei thought he was cocky in the boo arc when he clearly wasn’t
@@doraball6114 That was the only part of this video I disagree with Mark on. Gohan's Arrogance plot got dropped because it didn't really make sense. He already learned it when Cell almost destroyed the Earth after Gohan's SS2 transformation. In Super there felt like a lot of places/roles that Gohan could have played, but were given to other characters. Hell, he said he was giving to surpass Goku without relying on Super Saiyan, and they gave Goku a non-Saiyan power with UI. White Gohan was a goddamn ToP meme.
@@dantesuoh9190 ui gohan ? I never thought of that
@@pablogomesoliveira2677 Gohan Blanco, man
I liked the scene in TOP when Gohan and Piccolo teamed up against the two Namekians from Universe 6. The storytelling was incredible. Piccolo messing up but being saved by Gohan when it was the other way around when he was a kid. Piccolo seeing Kami and Nail which is amazing because for years we've known they are still there but getting a visual of that hit you in the feels. Gohan preparing his final attack with his guard down because he knows Piccolo is there to back him up. The second father son kamehameha. Just amazing storytelling. But like you said, it was lost in the shuffle because we couldn't fully absorb what happened because right after two universes got erased and the focus shifted. The TOP continued so we couldn't fully appreciate the moment for what it was. That was one of the few episodes of Super that can stand with Z IMO.
Wish that he grew up to be someone that understood that in order to protect his family, he had to balance career with training. Because he'll end up losing everything if he isn't prepared to fight. But thats just me
"Viejo sabroso" Lmao, didn't expect a Spanish meme here
El hermano de Jiren
@@robs1052 El gohan calvo
Best spanish dbz meme ever
Estaba buscando este comentario 🤣🤣 damn
It was actually a surprise to find it here hahaha
Gohans basically the head of the fodder z squad now. Like he's strong asf but he ain't strong enough to make a change in battle or in the story like goku and vegeta
Well he can he juat never chooses to
If only Piccolo and Gohan had used the hyperbolic time chamber for training. It wouldve made for some great character moments
You have no idea how long I've been waiting for this. To me, like to many people, Gohan should be the best character. I'm glad you followed up the original video.
Personally i liked gohan the most during the highschool arc where he interacted with "normal" society and his relationship with videl and his class mates
Exactly, that was fun.
I love rewatching everyones reaction when Gohan goes SSJ2 against Kibito!
He felt like goku but in a unique way.
Same here, it was so nice and enjoyable to watch
Gosh I wish we could see them especially sharpner I'm sure he owns a big gym wherever he is and would go crazy if he meets the greatest baseball player yamcha
"Gohan is the strongest in the universe, but he still doesn't do crap!"
I CAN SEE THE FUTURE
@@brito7175 BULMA AND VEGETA HAVE A KID
@@bb2fiddler THE REAL BUU IS A CHILD
@@brito7175 tf?
@@skiiscott3812 CELL REACHES PERFECT FORM
Everyone talking about "viejo sabroso" but not "el hermano de Jiren" 13:20
While I can agree that DBS's portrayal of Gohan was frustratingly inconsistent, I actually preferred when they fully leaned into the notion of him settling down as a family man. Some of my favorite episodes were the mini-arc where an entitled movie star tries steeling his wife, and Gohan shows that even if he's not the strongest in the universe, he's still no one to be trifled with.
I doubly loved that mini-arc for Videl and how because Gohan is such good and reliable husband, she completely shrugs off the pictures of Gohan with another woman, trusting that Gohan would have a reasonable explanation. I especially love how it flew in the face of certain kinds of "fans" who expressed their dissatisfaction with Gohan by suggesting Videl would leave him for some alpha-chad meathead.
Gohan was supposed to take front seat , that’s always the truth.
Pretty sure he never was and Toriyama just gave him too much
@@Deathmare235 the end of the Cell saga was undeniably a passing of the torch moment, they tried having Gohan as the lead in the Buu saga, people didn’t like it because it wasn’t written that well, and Goku was brought back first temporarily, and then permanently.
@@Slender_Man_186 I think it wasn't written poorly at all. Dragonball fans unfortunately just love the status quo, by and large, despite claiming to want something different. What came to be known as the buu saga started off good, even if it was very different from what fans had come to expect. It didn't last very long, but I think if the series had kept going in that direction, it would have greatly benefit from it.
@@Slender_Man_186 Nah Toriyama said in an interview he thought Goku fit better.
@@brian9967 but it was pretty poor, it was awkward teen love drama that Toriyama admits to not being good at writing. It was only when Goku came back that things pick up again because Tori knows how to write Goku, he’s familiar to him.
It doesn’t matter if he doesn’t like to fight, Gohan NEEDS to be strong to survive the world he was born into and protect his family
ZEKE TURNS LEVIS MEN INTO TITANS THEN LEVI KILLS THEM ALL
ZEKE BLOWS UP LEVI AND ESCAPES
HANGE DIES
MIKASA KILLS EREN&FLOTCH
And they can make that his reason for training but to also juggle it with work, making him an actual character and making him more interesting again unlike Goku who’s become less and less interesting
@@JamailvanWestering right I like that about gohan now but I feel like I actually wanna see him progress in training. all his training since the top has been off screen.
JAEGERIST damn thats crazy, i dont care at all in the slightest whatsoever, though
All of characters needs to do that. But gohan can counts on his father and his friends. Also in manga science top he's putting effort into beeing better fighter. His cooperation with piccolo deserves prise IMO.
The "viejo sabroso" cameo...didn't see that coming xd
The gohan stands are toxic and refuse to see how flawed this character is bruh, like just let him stay sidelined. We need a goten arc
Now that you bring it up, Vegeta being the one to help Gohan overcome his arrogance would have been awesome. Gohan and Vegeta don’t interact at all anymore, and it would be interesting to see how their relationship develops without Goku around. I think it could benefit them both.
That would be interesting
@@riteshjadhav1382 yeah. Dragonball should switch up the character dynamics from time to time to avoid staleness.Plus that would also free up Goku to spend more time with Goten training and giving him some development as well without always needing to partner up with Trunks
@@Dhampir101980 of course , most of the characters potentially have much more to do than they are doing currently
@@Dhampir101980 super hints things but doesn't fulfil all of them , mostly it does to make plots not story , remember there's a scene in super, vegeta was disappointed with the thing that gohan stopped training , i don't remember the exact words he said something like what a waste or pathetic but hinting that he was just disappointed that gohan's potential got wasted.
hope next season we get to see character progression amazingly done in general with good story.
Vegeta has also been show on multiple occasions to acknowledge and respect Gohan's potential.
A while back when I introduced my friend to Dragonball, he pointed out that Goku being the main focus of the series was odd because Gohan was much more relatable. When he discovered how Gohan would eventually end up in the Buu saga, he was heartbroken and largely lost interest in the series. So much lost potential...
So he thinks relatability equals=quality? If so then it’s a good thing he lost interest in the franchise
@@dinogt8477 having a relatable character makes the show more enjoyable
@@dinogt8477 goku isnt a quality character thou i dont know why you think he is especially dragon ball super goku lmfao
@@armandohernandez5454 enjoyability doesn’t make the writing good
@@potheadraccoon8536 when did I say goku is a quality character?
Wanna know what feels wrong? God Ki training without Gohan, the guy who pulled the Z Sword. The guy with the Mystic Form.
The guy who has a reason to hang around Shin for training who is intrinsically linked to Beerus.
Heck, bring Piccolo along. But using just Piccolo as a punching bag feels like a disservice to both characters.
Mark, I absolutely love hearing you talk about dragon ball. Youve opened me up to criticisms i hadnt thought about before, and hearing you speak on them you can tell it comes from a place of love and affection for a series that has shaped all our lives. Never stop doing what you do. Cant wait for super to back back stronger than ever. The manga has been turning out some of supers best stuff since the anime ended, and I cant wait to hear you talk about the anime version.
It’s funny how Gohan was the leader of the U7 team in the Tournament of Power but he never even had the chance to fight Jiren
It shows how the writers cared about Frieza and 17 waaay more than Gohan in the ToP
This! Like imagine Gohan fighting Jiren and getting absolutely stomped, but then using his intelligence to land a good hit.. That would be fire. Maybe Jiren seeing Gohan's potential or something and directly comparing it to UIO Goku.
Maybe even a Gohan and Goku moment or a Gohan and Vegeta moment where they egg him on to stay focused and vice versa.
OH MY GOSH, as a chilean, didnt expected you even knew about the "viejo sabroso" latino america meme, thank you!
Sapee!!
@Editor-san ¿En serio?
@@samueloak1600 el editor es @Editor-san, we, jajaj.
@@SuperAmazingPower CARAJO
Absolutely love the way you formatted the analysis , you just put my thoughts into words with how I’ve felt about Gohan all these years.
PTSD Gohan becomes the next supervillain; negatively spiralling down until he uses the powers he's spent so long ignoring to flip out and destroy half of earth's population. The power, saiyan rage and arrogance are firmly in the driver's seat.
Goku has a space to come back as the hero because Gohan fans just want someone to save their boi and gohan has to claw his way through the issues we were expecting to tackle with him as the protagonist in the buu saga.
BAM!
Unpopular opinion: Gohan and his great saiyaman/school life arc was some of the greatest and most enjoyable content in all of dragonball.
I agree. Thematically and narratively it made way more sense than what the buu arc eventually devolved into and Toriyama should have stuck to his guns. The problem is db fans are so stubborn, they cannot accept anything new. We only want new villains, new powerups, higher and higher stakes. Almost all of Super is this same regurgitated garbage, it's so embarrassing I just pretend it doesn't exist. How do you even fix this?
@@brian9967 everything you just said is absolutely right , we also need to change ( the fans ) like we are a literal joke to all the fanbases because of that “can he beat goku “ meme , no , goku can’t beat superman ( well not ALL versions of him ) , goku can’t solo gurren Lagan , and no Saint saya ( I freaking butchered it ) stomps medium diff
@@brian9967 and I absolutely want to see a new superpower , or hax , the new granolah arc gave him ( granolah) reality warping abilities, so we are going to the right direction
@@brian9967 Tbh I was fine with Buu. I honestly think the route he went with was good but with small changes, mostly involving changing the narrative to focus on Gohan and giving a bit more shine to other Z fighters, it could’ve been phenomenal.
But there is something about seeing a humble “super “ trying to fit in , especially one that lost his childhood because he was too busy basically saving the universe, that’s just.... interesting? Idk It’s so fun watching Gohan get bullied by a guy that couldn’t even scratch him but Gohan still doesn’t get mad. He is so pure at heart that he basically just cannot comprehend why someone would act like that. Same goes for his relationship with Videl. “Man I cannot understand girls” because he almost never interacted with one in that way.
The saiyaman arc used the best aspects of Gohan when he is not going apeshit(which obviously is cool, but I love the simple things too)
@@brian9967 About Super... yeah I can see why you prefer that. The people who were responsible for it (at least the anime version) just didn’t have a grasp or proper respect to the core of the characters. They literally make it feel like Goku was all good with sacrificing the multiuniverse for a good fight. (Yeah, in the end it was worth it but he didn’t know it).
The manga does a far better job imo in regards to understanding him and the other characters, but there are still may points in the narrative that are fully Toriyama’s fault (such as putting Gohan into the pits of Irrelevance). Toyotaro did his best to change that with the Moro arc and some of the ToP. The anime did it better with the ToP and Gohan, but the overall structure could not be saved.... Gohan is dead in Super.
On the other hand, Vegeta is treated really damn fine, so there is still a reason to be interested in the series imo
When I look at adult Gohan I remember the good old cell saga and say to myself "here I sit, broken hearted, came to shit but only farted"
Sun Tzu said that
@@looting3305 And I think he knows a little more about shitting then you do, pal because he invented it.
@@michaelralphs5593 Then he perfected it
Adult Gohan feels like a totally different character in almost every single way
Dragonball videos are back!!!
Ok, as a latina, i wasn't expecting AT ALL that "viejo sabroso" ♥
La verdad xd me tomó desprevenido
Nadie se lo espero la verdad hahaha! Pero hay un canal latino que está subiendo memes en inglés entre ellos el de Viejo sabroso y se ha vuelto algo popular y más conocido
What does this phrase mean?
Ni yo xD.
@@bit427 Literally "tasty old man". Can be translated as something like "naughty old man".
I guess since I said my serious response, I can give a joke:
As bad as Gohan is... imagine if you are a Goten fan!
Does Goten have fans?
The videos are back!!
This video damn near sums up the entire super hero movie and exactly how I’ve been feeling about the show. Interested to hopefully hear a review of that movie as well to break that down as well
I think you could legitimately do some story stuff with Gohan being a father. Maybe have him struggle with the idea of introducing Pan to fighting at a young age or at least fighting big threats due to all of the things he was forced to go through as a kid.
I kind of feel bad for Gohan fans (including myself); he's been mishandled for so long that we'll just accept the literal scraps they give him, because that's literally ALL he has and without them, he'd really nothing be nothing.
Another great arc for Gohan would be understanding what fighting means to him. If you look back on several of his best fights, he suffers from overconfidence to a fatal degree. To me, it’s him mimicking the fighters that have raised him, flaws and all. Goku has always seemed overconfident in his abilities and is constantly separate from his own family because of his love for martial arts. Piccolo is a master martial artist who knows his strengths and weaknesses inside and out, and always seems confident because of this, so on and so forth. It’s like Gohan puts on a persona specifically for fighting his enemies in order to prepare himself to do something he hates and feel confident enough to win, thus he becomes overconfident when he is the strongest guy in the room and is forced to fight. If he is shown what martial arts means to, let’s say, Goku, he could be shown why he loves it so much. Because Goku believes everyday can be better then the last, and so could he. He projects this mentality into his fights, and thus changes his opponents for the better, at least sometimes. Gohan could take away that idea of always self improving and project that instead of the overconfident persona he believes is the key to victory. P.S. this would come full circle in the TOP when he fights the family man, he would struggle with the idea fighting someone who is also being forced to fight to protect his loved ones, but he doesn’t regret the fight, only that he lost his family
you really made us wait over a year for another one of these. welcome back
Gohan is one of my favorite Dragonball characters and I totally agree. He peaked in the cell saga and was never the same. I will admit I did like they gave him some development in the tournament of power sage but it certainly wasn't enough. Gohan should be the antithesis to the norm character. He hates fighting and only does it to protect those he cares about. There's that moment in the tournament where No 17 blasts the love maidens during their transformation since they left themselves open. That should have been Gohan, since he has given in to his need to fight at times despite hating it, that should be his continuation.
Unlike Goku and Vegeta who want the best kinds of fights, Gohan should want to try to end things quickly (at least now that he overcame his eagerness). I get dragonball's appeal comes form the transforming the 100% full power fights, believe me I love it too, but at least focusing on Gohan's desire to win for safety sake I'd argue could keep him relevant and give him a reason to actually fight to become stronger. What's to stop him form having 5 Sayians around him and giving him the red hair? Himself. If he still needs to fight and decides he needs the strength, he'd go for it. JUST WRITE HIM IN A MORE INTERESTING WAY.
It's a shame that Gohan ended up being a hollow character but as a certain scholar once said "it's not the character's fault it's the writers."
Thank you totally not mark for all your amazing content. You should really start a Podcast i could listen to you talk about anime of all kinds for hours
Hey mark, your reviews and opinions really make me open my eyes to story writing and the standard you have for anime/manga and I totally agree with you. since you have a good look at anime, etc.
I want to be a manga artist, so right now I'm trying to formulate the best, unique, story-advancing I can and I was wondering you should make a video on what makes an anime story good and talk about the elements.
i love your videos, keep it UP!
Been missing the DB character analysis. Thanks Not-Mark.
I think it would have been cool if Gohan fighting Goku happened at the end of Super. Hear me out Goku started the tournament of power which almost led to the destruction of multiple universes and you see a little bit of hints that Gohan is pissed off at that. One moment in particular during the tournament that stood out to me was when he knocked that one guy out and he dropped the picture of his family that get's erased right in front of Gohan and Gohan looks pissed. Now the series goes to great lengths to not blame Goku (Even though it was totally his fault.) but can you imagine if at the end of the tournament Gohan pissed at his dad for his recklessness and callous disregard for not only other universes but his own challenges him to a fight and win or lose Gohan Permanently distances himself from Goku saying he can't be near someone who gleefully puts his family in danger. It would be SOOO good to see Gohan put his wife and kids over his dad plus it would make a good Vegeta moment where Gohan put Pan and Videl over the warrior path. AND it would put Some consequences for Goku constantly putting the chase of the next fight over everything else.
It's Goku's fault the guys in charge are assholes who look for any reason to destroy everything? How could he have known the only reason they wanted to host the tournament was to see if they should erase everything? All they said was they were considering hosting a tournament for all universes. There was no mention of them destroying everything until the last second. Is it your fault if you invite your best friend to your mother's birthday party and he kills her and everybody else there in front of you? How could you be so reckless? That logic makes no sense.
@@broom2839 Correct, Goku actually gave the universes a chance to live and in the end saved them.Zeno would have erased them any way. Goku saved them.
Great video! I love these Anatomy Of Anime videos you do. I don't know if you plan to cover other character, but I would love see one of Eraserhead or Levi. Love your channel man!
Pretty much sums up EXACTLY How I felt about his story arc in super! I love that they even put in the tournament of power but they still did him dirty!! Also I love the FF 7 song at the end!! It reminds me of Zack who also has a special place in my heart. Also, I kinda feel like Gohan and Zach share a few things in common and they give me the forgotten character vibes! Keep it up!!
You highlight an interesting problem I currently find myself having with Dragon Ball in general right now, not just with Gohan. It's no slight against him but Vegeta's a better main character than everyone including Goku right now and the more I think about it the more I wonder if that hasn't accidentally been the case since Buu.
Honestly, as soon as Goku started poking around with the whole Tournament of Power with a god that obviously didn't give two shits if he destroyed the cosmos, and Goku getting excited by it, I was done with Goku and Super in general. Bring on more arcs like the Goku Black arc and I would've been happy.
2:02 a lo que venían "viejo sabroso"
Great video. Since the Cell saga, I’ve always thought the most underused relationship in Dragon Ball is Gohan and Vegeta‘s. The two have known each other since Gohan's first battle and then became allies only after he surpassed him. I’m hoping we see something in the next manga arc but I'm not holding my breath
This was an amazing video! You just gave me a thought about the new Arc that's out now I think that gohan will step up and go toe to toe with Granola due to them having to overcome their past selves and from what the Oracle fish stated in the chapter about another strong warrior is about to emerge soon
For some reason I'm thinking that in the future Mark will make a video about DBZ Abridged Goku, his tone and development throughout the series, as well as his impact on the entire Dragon Ball franchise as a whole, and Goku's character specifically.
And the thumbnail will have his name written in crayons with the subtitle simply being "Muffin Button".
"But I didn't install a muffin button... "
Me before watching this: _"Super wasn't that bad-"_
Me after watching this: _"Goddamn, they really did butcher all the potential, huh."_
Do keep in mind, TNM barely even mentioned Buu Saga Gohan because there's next to nothing to talk about, and not one hint of GT, a series where his daughter is one of the main characters. This isn't a Super problem, this just what happens when a character has no where to go after their story has ended (Cell Saga).
Super will age like swiss cheese left in the sunlight.
@@wolfgod6443 True, but out of those the only one to pretend Gohan was gonna be in the spotlight was the Buu Arc. And even then you could tell Goku was just lingering and Toriyama was just waiting to swap them out since he preferred writing for Goku. The Buu Arc may have been the beginning to Gohan's downward spiral and certainly contains many disappointing and contrived moments but Super pretended to address this when all it did was more of the same, it was like rubbing salt into the wound in that case.
GT is more a case of Pan's wasted potential since it was pretty clear Gohan was a side character much like the rest of the cast.
@@Shift_Salt I don't know, Gohan had some great interactions and fights in the ToP. I'd say they told a successful story with him. I don't really want him to be the main character, but I do want him to find balance in his two lifestyles, and at least they've been working towards that...Slowly.
@@Shift_Salt I mean, when we go back to Gohan during the Baby Arc he does some cool stuff, and shows that he hasn't really let his work or family life get in the way of his training.
Liked the Hollow soundtrack in the background. You have awesome production skills, Mark.
Never have I ever clicked on a video so fast. Seemed like a great watch while I eat...my food lived to see another day.
"Viejo Sabroso" the best line of 17 in DBZ (Spanish)
Gohan: Hah, I'm not a hollow character. I've got Saiyan blood flowing through my veins.
Buu: You're missing the point.
I believe Akira Toriyama once gave an interview where he said, " Dragon Ball is the story of Son Goku". Which is fine, but in that case the DB Universe deserves more spin-off stories for its side characters. They don't even have to be battle shounen, I would take slice of life in the DB Universe.
He better make Neko Majin canon
Hey Mark, Just wanting to show my appreciation for the videos you put out. The work, knowledge and the passion you give off during each video shows how much you care. Not only are your videos entertaining but they are educational and packed to the brim with great insight.
Its clear you critique heavily because you enjoy the show and you want to provide more than just a biased fan boi's opinion. Keep up the good work!