Totally agree, I have the luxe version and wish it had an Americano option as I find the espresso extraction to be better tasting than the larger grind "filter" option.
Nothing, you can do that, and to be fair it would be no slower as the water spout on the new version is just bypassing the group. The benefit of having the spout and the water option though is that it's always clean as it bypasses the group, no coffee taste in your tea water for example, and you have the three temperature settings.
9 годин тому
@@Coffee_Kev true, I was thinking about making an americano, so coffee tasted water from the group would not be a problem. Does it heat water up to 100C in the version with spout?
Canadian and I don’t need a hot water spout. Thanks for being fair to Ninja and spelling out what the right comparison should be. 100% agree and I love mine for just the ease of use. I didn’t need another hobby but really good coffee at home. The cold foam is amazing too. I make all kinds of coffee and milk drinks at home now. I also think the price is really great for the machine.
Again, love yoaur videos and love this one on the Ninja! I appreciate how you understand the market this is for and highlight the strengths for that, using other known coffee machines as comparisons! Keep the awesome content up!
Thumbs up from me on the video Kev! I've seen also the ES501EU and ES601EU available for pre-order in Germany, but alas, not the ES701EU. That's the one I'd like to buy. Cheers!
Thanks Kev, you're bloody awesome pal for doing these reviews ASAP! This is my first foray into buying an espresso/coffee machine after using the french press for over a decade
American here and I’ve curbed my curse words. Don’t know who Shark’s analysis team are for the American market but they need to be relocated to package inventory. I would have liked to have the hot water dispenser, single dose basket, along with the additional drink items. The options on European version is exactly what’s missing! 😢
We are in the U.S. and got the Ninja. The espresso was excellent out of the box. However, the grinder got jammed several times with two (similar) types of beans. The motor felt like it was straining other times, which gave me concerns about longevity. Because of that concern, coupled with the short one-year warranty, we returned it. We bought a Breville Barista Touch, and we're finding the espresso doesn't taste as good. I have spent two hours on dial-in videos but still not there. Boo! Hot water is a no-brainer, Ninja.
You mean the beans that jammed the Ninja? They were gifted to us, and we gifted them away, so I can’t be certain. But I do know the brand was Dear Francis, and we think maybe they were the Guatemalan sampler, which the internet says means light roasts.
I also kinda suspect that the grinder is the biggest potential point of failure, due to the "easy to strip"-looking plastic gears (The Smart grinder Pro from Sage/Breville suffers from this too). There is a reason why Grinders tend to have the motor directly underneath the burr, giving up the lower retention in the process (Example being the Baratza Encore & Virtuoso) or that they use some kind of chain on the higher end of price points (like the Baratza Sette, Vario, Fortè). I am not an expert repair person tho, so take my words with a grain of salt. ;)
From a mechanical standpoint I'm very happy if the motor sounds strained. That means the gears can most likely comfortably handle the motor. A strong motor sounds good and feels like quality, but it makes everything down the chain take a harder beating. Of course torque control could be done, but that's something you rarely see in high end applications. So the simplest and safest option is to make the motor the weak link because they can take a beating.
It does seem an odd choice, I suppose it could be that they needed to get the US & Canada version to a particular price point (the EU version is £549, so $720), but they're bringing out the "essential" version which will presumably be at a lower price point. Cheers, Kev.
It does seem weird, but it wouldn't surprise me if they change that. Also I'm assuming the 701 'Pro' will have a hot water button in all versions. Cheers, Kev
The reason people are asking about Bambino Plus is because Luxe and Bambino Plus cost the same. Bambino Plus was an amazing machine but the Luxe has everything. It has a grinder, scale, now even auto tamper and tons of other stuff. It's basecally like buying a Mercedes for the price of Toyota.
Just picked up a unit in Canada without the hot water function. It wasn’t a deal breaker but I’d rather have the ability to do the hot water directly from the unit instead of a separate kettle
I wouldn’t give it too much thought, I have the hot water spout and still use my temp control kettle for the hot water in Americano’s as it’s so slow from the Ninja Cafe and the machine dumps SO much filtered water into the tray no matter what you do.
I live across the pond but I would so much prefer the European version vs the American version, especially because of the hot water option.. It also looks a lot nicer.
Was close to getting one of these for my wife but opted out. Went and got a 6cup Moka Pot and Milk Frother/Heater. Just imagining in a couple of years a single point of failure will cause all this entire machine to get tossed out.
I'm from the US would not miss the hot water dispenser. I have never used the hot water from the steam wand of my espresso machine. It is much quicker to use my electric kettle.
Hopefully this will give Sage a kick up the backside. Sage have about 10 machines that are all so similar to each other. They brought innovation to a stale market 10 years ago and have done nothing since. I hope Ninja keep brining their innovation to a market that has moved at snail pace.
They've done nothing since? 😆😆. I don't think that's quite right, they've done a fair bit, in fact most of the innovations on the Ninja machine, and from other brands, have been borrowed from Sage/Breville.
@@Coffee_Kev have they really Kev? I know you're a big Sage fan. I've been an owner of two Sage Bambino Plus' since 2019 and love them. But what have Sage done since the release of that machine? Basically dressed up old machines as new ones. I worry about the build quality of the Ninja but they are never short on innovation at the consumer end if the market. The thing that I'm most sick of in the sub £1000 market is that everyone adding built in grinders. I get that you need to cater for those who want both but with almost every new machine? It's stupid.
Kev I can only speak for myself but the issue with Sage is that their comparable machine, the touch impress, is way over priced. I’ve seen a review on Tom’s coffee corner comparing that machine with the ninja and it’s clear the ninja is a superior machine. One thing Sage could do to stand out from what is a crowded market place is to introduce much better grinders in their machines.
Yeah it's a little thing, but it's very handy. If you want to use it to make tea for example, as it produces a relatively consistent set volume of water, you can just press the button and walk away, do something else for the minute or so it'll take to fill the cup, not exactly instant, but it's probably quicker, more energy efficient and more convenient than boiling the kettle.
With the sheer number of models, I'd be curious if the rep is wrong about the 60/701 not coming to the US. I'd hope they are as the main downside for me was the Luxe not having a hot water dispenser, lol. If Ninja's gonna be stubborn about it I'm not above running a gd 220v line to my mf kitchen 😤
Re what the rep said at IFA, I think this was referring to the lack of the features the EU version has on the 601 (hot water, single espresso). I suspect they will release the 701 in the US, and I think it'll have the hot water option, I could be wrong of course.
@@Coffee_Kev I appreciate the reply and believe/assume you are correct implicitly and uncritically! Can't imagine they'd pass up the chance to offer more models especially if things are selling out right now. Thanks for uploading your videos upside down so they look proper in my hemisphere 🙏
i would wish the sage (including the new oracle jet) would be far superior to the ninja. The build quality of the sage is better but the grinder is the same, the volumetric dosing is far worse and the temperature seems to be more inconsistent. For the price of 2000€ i would expect much more. The ninja however gives you everything you could wish for the price but i have some doubts in the quality of the grinder and the availability of replacement parts. i would wish there is a machine like the ninja just superior in quality.
I preordered on day 1 and got mine in the UK from Very (20% off for first order) and got it over a week ago. I do like it but it still hasn’t settled on the grind size and I’ve been using the same beans since I got it. It’s a pain tbh but hopefully it settles down soon.
When you say it hasn't settled, does it go a bit finer later in the day for example, then more coarse the next morning? Or it's just going all over the place with no pattern?
@@Coffee_Kev It’s all over the place mate, I’m at the point where I’m thinking about factory resetting it but I’m assuming at the moment the barista tech is struggling to switch between single and double baskets. I’ve only used it to make single (usually singles) and double espresso based drinks in the mornings so far and it goes anywhere from 7 to 19 on the grind and can never seem to make its mind up, the singles are always nasty while the doubles seem to have found their mark on taste somewhat. I’m not one for strong coffee but love the flavour so I have it set to low strength with everything else as it came out of the box. It’s my first espresso machine other than my Tassimo so I’m getting used to it, I’ll give it some more time and learn as I go, no sense in resetting it just yet I think.
Seeing the internals, I have a strong feeling that those plastic gears could strip if using lighter roasted beans and/or after some aging of the plastic, they seem like a big potential point of failure. That they use a stainless steal thermoblock is very good though, as it doesn't corrode like aluminium ones do, so that may work for a long time is descaled regularly... The pump could fail, but the fact that it is a regular Ulka pump (depending on the voltage model ofc) means that it is definetly replacable even if they don't deliberately provide parts. But that is just my very amateurish observation on this machine. Knowledge that I acquired from my gaggiuino journey so far among other things.
Yeah it's defo a point re the gears, and I do think that this could happen if people are trying to grind light-medium roast single origins that may be a bit too dense & hard for the grinder, as I don't think it has a slipper clutch like the Sage machines have (although they don't always work anyway). Yeah it's a stainless thermoblock, the group is mainly Aluminium. If there's one obvious potential point of failure, as you've said it would probably be the gears - this is one of the most common eventual point of failure with the Barista Express, and when getting hold of the genuine gears was difficult, it often meant 3D printed gears which often didn't last long. Thankfully the genuine Sage/Breville gears are available now, and they're just a few quid. Ninja are starting to retail the commonly required external parts, shower screen, gasket, top burr and so on, and that's good, but it'll remain to be seen whether they do something similar with internal parts. Ta Kev
Still really gutted that I got a dud unit of the Ninja that wouldn't steam milk properly....or at all really. I sent it back to Currys and got a refund. I've completely lost faith in it and won't be getting another one so now I have a dilemma. I'm thinking of dipping my toe in the super automatic pool and trying out a De'Longhi Dinamica Plus. I might also put my pennies aside for a while and get a Sage Impress Touch. Fingers crossed for a Black Friday deal. I just wish there was somewhere you could go to actually try these machines out.
When I look on eBay for used machines the number of sage ones sold as faulty/parts only is worryingly high if that’s supposed to be the well made option.
We've got a 10+ year old La Pavoni Domus Bar and had it serviced by Sco-Tech in Perth recently. Their guy won't touch Sage machines, which says it all.
@bridgetcrossman708 to be fair the fact he won't touch Sage machines probably speaks to the parts availability, rather than to the quality of the machines. Most professional espresso machine repair folk in the past wouldn't offer to work on Sage machines, simply because for a long time, they couldn't get parts. I know of a few firms who would have loved to have been able to take that on, as there are so many Sage machines out there, it could potentially be great business, but getting hold of the parts was very difficult, you had to bring them over from Germany or somewhere else. There was only one out of warranty support partner that could get parts, so the other repair firms didn't bother. Now that parts are available in the UK, it's easier for repair folks to offer to repair Sage machines, but a lot of them probably don't even realise that this has changed, it's fairly recent. Cheers Kev
Coffee machines just like any other machines, contain components with a life span. So at some point, all machines will stop working, but that doesn't mean they're destined for the bin. Often it'll be 5 years or more down the line, the owners are ready for a new machine anyway, so they'll sell them on, and replace them. Sage machines can be repaired, you can replace failed or worn out components. The reason you'll find them on eBay is that they sell, because people can get parts for them, get them back working again and use them themselves or sell them on. The fact that when they break, they're being sold to someone who's prepared to put in the effort to fixt them, rather than just being binned, is a very positive thing in my opinion. A good bit of data would be how many machines from a coffee machine brand hits the tip every year, vs how many of them are being sold to be reconditioned to brew another day. With Sage machines, in most cases there's no reason to bin them, unless the cost of repair makes it a pointless exercise, which is rare as most of the components that need replacing are fairly low cost. The most common Sage machine you'll see is the Barista Express. Keep in mind this has been one of the highest selling coffee machines in the UK for several years, crazy numbers of them have sold, and the number you'll see for sale spares/repair on eBay is likely to be a teeny weeny percentage of the number that have sold in the past 5 years. For example, see this: (the first "not working" sage machine that came up for an Ebay search) bit.ly/4gTN9eo It'll probably just be the grinder gear, a little plastic cog. You can get the gear here for about a tenner: coffeeclassics.co.uk/product/gear-main-kit/ and if you're handy with tools, you'd probably be able to fix it yourself watching a couple of youtube videos - or, just do what I'd do ;-), speak to Radu at espressorepairshop.co.uk/ - or another espresso machine engineer - it's not a huge job. You'd then probably have that machine for a good couple of years before another component reaches the end of it's days, and a lot of the components that will go over time are fairly cheap. I took a Barista Pro to Radu recently, 4/5 years old, water wasn't flowing properly, and the solenoid valve just needed a bit of a clean, that was it, all working again, no new parts required. I took one of my battered reconditioned several year old Sage Dual Boilers to him a year or so ago, that was playing up, it was literally an O-ring that had degraded, there was a bit of an internal leak and the triac board had gone, this: coffeeclassics.co.uk/product/triac-pcb-assembly/ £24 part, very easy fix and it's been going strong again since. So the question with Ninja coffee machines is whether there will be parts available for them, and whether it'll be possible to swap them out when they fail. Will they be hitting skips in a few years time when, inevitably some parts begin to fail, or will parts be available? At least some of the internal components are relatively standard, so I think some of them will be fine in that regard, but it's specific things like the grinder gears, will they be making genuine gears available in the future or will people have to resort to 3D printed, which tend to not be as durable as the genuine gears. Only time will tell. Cheers, Kev
@Coffee_Kev Yeah, he mentioned the parts issue but seemed not to have a very good opinion of Sage machines in general. As long as he keeps my old La Pavoni going (without it being too dear) I'm happy!
Mine seemed to break in some way after about 10 days of use. It started out making good brews. Then it took a dive and started making really bad espresso. Waiting to get a replacement from ninja. They confirmed it should act this way and said we could get a replacement. But, they don’t have any in stock. So, I’m stuck with a $500 hole in my wallet that I can’t fill with a refund.
that's very annoying I can imagine!! I've heard of a few duds, but then from what I can gather they've sold HUGE numbers, so the number of duds may be a very insignificant percentage, and there are always a small percentage of duds even with premium machines, to be fair to them.
This is all too dicey for me... the one you have there clearly has a hot water dispense button.... the one on the link you have posted (and is the only one on the Ninja store on Amazon) is the ES601UK Model, and does NOT have a "hot water dispense" button on it. ALL of the retailers listing pre-order for the 701 (Pro) version are showing photos of a machine with a tamping lever but no hot water dispense button. So I cannot for the life of me figure out what is going on with the model numbers vs button configurations. The Ninja Kitchen website doesn't even make reference to the fact there are going to be 3 models available (in fact they are only showing one model on their own website with no option to buy or even pre-order). So for now.... I give up LOL
The ES601UK does have a hot water button and spout, it does not show it on any of the pictures though and is not mentioned in the instruction book. I was unsure which version would arrive but mine is ES601UK and has the spout and button. I pre ordered from currys.
What beans do you recommend from the coffeeworks for this machine? Mostly milk drinks (lattes / flat whites and also iced lattes) looking to change my subscription :-)
Yeah I can't imagine anyone choosing to not have the hot water spout, unless of course it meant paying extra, but I just can't imagine that adding the hot water option changes the build cost that much, it's just a pipe that bypasses the group, I'd imagine the extra cost is a couple of quid, if that.
I'm in Canada and have had the machine 2 weeks. I'm happy with the machine overall but now I'm disappointed that there is a version out there that can add hot water. If I had known it would be available soon, I would have waited.
Nonsense, of course Americans would want those features. This is just Ninja not wanting to lose money on the stock they've already manufactured. I was waiting for this revision to come out in the States before I made a purchase and if this is how they are choosing to deal with the US market the machine is now off my shopping list. Shame
I don't think the missing features for the American models has anything to do with wants or needs, and everything to do with costs. Remove some features and bring it to market at a certain price point. Any other reason makes no sense and in any case, it a st@pid decision.
You're right I should have explained what the heck I was on about when I said PID, I usually do. PID just means a temperature control algorithm, Proportional Integral Derivative, think of it like a more advanced thermostat. Usually, a machine with a PID will have better temp stability than a machine without a PID, all things considered. The Barista assist means that the machine can figure out roughly what grind size you should be using for espresso, it makes it much easier to get pretty decent results without going through a home barista learning curve. What I meant about control over extraction is that you don't quite have the same amount of manual control over extraction with this machine that you would with a traditional machine, mainly when it comes to the dose and ratio. If you're just wanting pretty decent results pretty easily, though, this is what this machine is for in my opinion. Cheers, Kev.
@@Coffee_KevThanks a lot Kev. Yes, you explain things really well usually. Nothing to complain about there. Interesting that a Sage/Breville will give me more options to dial in the perfect shot. But I have really gotten interested in the Ninja, and are planning to buy it. Hope there is not too many compromices. Good to hear you like the "filter" coffe, since it will be used a lot, especially when friends and family are visiting. I think I will go for this swiss army knife. Look forward to see your coming videos about it. I live in Norway, and none of the normal shops have it for preorder yet. Thanks for your very fine work! Ronny
I'd imagine there are a few people who didn't want to wait, who imported the US version over into Europe (as I did so I could review it) who are now regretting that decision! Cheers, Kev.
You mean the mere mortals of Europe can now get the Luxe? Wow, first we get running water, and now this. Sorry, about the sarcasm, but a staggered roll-out "went the way of the dodo" back in the 90's. Ironically, just like saying "went the way of the dodo" 😀
Haha, actually releasing like this is still very common, Sage/Breville do exactly the same with their new machines. I think it's probably just quite difficult to do a worldwide launch, even doing it like this, Ninja clearly haven't been able to produce nearly enough stock to keep up with the initial demands in any of the countries they've released so far.
The link is correct, it's the Amazon page that has changed, they have removed the pre-order option (must have sold out again) and the pricy ones you're seeing are other purchase options. I've removed the link, I'll put it back when it's available again at the usual price. Cheers 👍
@@Coffee_Kev thanks do you know when it will be released and also I'm new to the coffee game and I would prefer like a flavored French vanilla or coffee bean what would you suggest?
It just means you have the ability to make Americano and tea without boiling the kettle. Also handy for things like cleaning the portafilter and preheating cups. It's quite slow but the hottest setting is pretty hot 👍
I can't see any reason that it wouldn't be safe, but to be honest I'm not a huge advocate of puck screens anyway. Other than helping to keep the shower screen clean, unless it's a machine that doesn't have a 3 way solenoid that is therefore thrashing the puck from start to finish with water pressure, I don't really see a huge benefit in using a puck screen. I've not seen any puck disturbance on the Luxe, so it's not something I'd even considered to be honest. A portafilter paper under the puck, though, would be an interesting experiment I think. Ta :-), Kev.
@@Coffee_Kev thanks for your thoughts!. Only reason I have been thinking about it is that even in the finest grind the espresso pours quite quickly. This is our first B2C machine so don’t know if we are doing something wrong.
Great video! I'm from the US, and they're making a mistake by not including a hot water dispenser. I use that all the time.
What stops you from running double espresso without portafilter.
Totally agree, I have the luxe version and wish it had an Americano option as I find the espresso extraction to be better tasting than the larger grind "filter" option.
Nothing, you can do that, and to be fair it would be no slower as the water spout on the new version is just bypassing the group. The benefit of having the spout and the water option though is that it's always clean as it bypasses the group, no coffee taste in your tea water for example, and you have the three temperature settings.
@@Coffee_Kev true, I was thinking about making an americano, so coffee tasted water from the group would not be a problem. Does it heat water up to 100C in the version with spout?
I think USA got the first version, EU gets a version that is adjusted to consumer feedback. I think we will get it too pretty soon.
Canadian and I don’t need a hot water spout. Thanks for being fair to Ninja and spelling out what the right comparison should be. 100% agree and I love mine for just the ease of use. I didn’t need another hobby but really good coffee at home. The cold foam is amazing too. I make all kinds of coffee and milk drinks at home now. I also think the price is really great for the machine.
Again, love yoaur videos and love this one on the Ninja! I appreciate how you understand the market this is for and highlight the strengths for that, using other known coffee machines as comparisons! Keep the awesome content up!
I'm american and I would like all those features.
I got mine from very about a week ago. They were quick to get it shipped. I love it
Thumbs up from me on the video Kev! I've seen also the ES501EU and ES601EU available for pre-order in Germany, but alas, not the ES701EU. That's the one I'd like to buy. Cheers!
Thanks Tom 😎, yeah I'm intrigued by the 701, it'll be interesting to see what they've done with the tamp lever. Cheers, Kev
Hey Tom
Did you preorder on Ninjas website? Didn't find it there
@@TheRealBlight1ny wife was able to order it when she checked on the site and there was 1 available
Americans would be very much interested in the hot water dispense , single and americano options.
Thanks Kev, you're bloody awesome pal for doing these reviews ASAP! This is my first foray into buying an espresso/coffee machine after using the french press for over a decade
American here and I’ve curbed my curse words. Don’t know who Shark’s analysis team are for the American market but they need to be relocated to package inventory. I would have liked to have the hot water dispenser, single dose basket, along with the additional drink items. The options on European version is exactly what’s missing! 😢
Another great video (and make up!)..keep them coming..
Haha thanks 🙏😎
We are in the U.S. and got the Ninja. The espresso was excellent out of the box. However, the grinder got jammed several times with two (similar) types of beans. The motor felt like it was straining other times, which gave me concerns about longevity. Because of that concern, coupled with the short one-year warranty, we returned it. We bought a Breville Barista Touch, and we're finding the espresso doesn't taste as good. I have spent two hours on dial-in videos but still not there. Boo!
Hot water is a no-brainer, Ninja.
What beans were you using, just out of interest?
Cheers
Kev
You mean the beans that jammed the Ninja? They were gifted to us, and we gifted them away, so I can’t be certain. But I do know the brand was Dear Francis, and we think maybe they were the Guatemalan sampler, which the internet says means light roasts.
I also kinda suspect that the grinder is the biggest potential point of failure, due to the "easy to strip"-looking plastic gears (The Smart grinder Pro from Sage/Breville suffers from this too).
There is a reason why Grinders tend to have the motor directly underneath the burr, giving up the lower retention in the process (Example being the Baratza Encore & Virtuoso) or that they use some kind of chain on the higher end of price points (like the Baratza Sette, Vario, Fortè).
I am not an expert repair person tho, so take my words with a grain of salt. ;)
From a mechanical standpoint I'm very happy if the motor sounds strained. That means the gears can most likely comfortably handle the motor. A strong motor sounds good and feels like quality, but it makes everything down the chain take a harder beating. Of course torque control could be done, but that's something you rarely see in high end applications. So the simplest and safest option is to make the motor the weak link because they can take a beating.
Arizona here. Um yea. I love love americanos.
Really good video, I am deffos getting one based on your reviews, I seem to be the exact demography they were aiming for….
Yes Americans would like the features in the European version. Ninja apparently didn’t poll the proper people.
It does seem an odd choice, I suppose it could be that they needed to get the US & Canada version to a particular price point (the EU version is £549, so $720), but they're bringing out the "essential" version which will presumably be at a lower price point. Cheers, Kev.
A great review Kev 👏 👌 👍 So glad it doesn't stand up against my Sage machine 💪💪💪
Did Kev just say 'what's the craic going to be' ?! letting out his inner northern irishman! Thanks for updated video
Hehe, I did 😎. You're very welcome 👍👍 cheers, Kev.
I'M American can't believe that they are not doing the hot water dispenser!
It does seem weird, but it wouldn't surprise me if they change that. Also I'm assuming the 701 'Pro' will have a hot water button in all versions. Cheers, Kev
The reason people are asking about Bambino Plus is because Luxe and Bambino Plus cost the same.
Bambino Plus was an amazing machine but the Luxe has everything. It has a grinder, scale, now even auto tamper and tons of other stuff. It's basecally like buying a Mercedes for the price of Toyota.
Just picked up a unit in Canada without the hot water function.
It wasn’t a deal breaker but I’d rather have the ability to do the hot water directly from the unit instead of a separate kettle
I wouldn’t give it too much thought, I have the hot water spout and still use my temp control kettle for the hot water in Americano’s as it’s so slow from the Ninja Cafe and the machine dumps SO much filtered water into the tray no matter what you do.
@@InimitaPaul good to know.
Thanks!
I live across the pond but I would so much prefer the European version vs the American version, especially because of the hot water option.. It also looks a lot nicer.
Love the video. You look like you could be related to Matt from the YT channel DIY Perks btw.
Literally the only reason I have not purchased is because of the lack of a hot water spout and no Americano feature.
American-I’m very disappointed in ninja not including the hot water dispenser, single shot and Americano feature.
I'm in Canada and want the European features in a 120V model
Was close to getting one of these for my wife but opted out.
Went and got a 6cup Moka Pot and Milk Frother/Heater.
Just imagining in a couple of years a single point of failure will cause all this entire machine to get tossed out.
I'm from the US would not miss the hot water dispenser. I have never used the hot water from the steam wand of my espresso machine. It is much quicker to use my electric kettle.
Not including these in the US version is why I returned it and bought the Breville Oracle Jet instead.
Are you happy with the Oracle Jet so far? I'll be reviewing it very soon. Cheers, Kev
@@Coffee_Kev yes, very much. Makes great, consistent shots and the flat white is perfect.
Hopefully this will give Sage a kick up the backside. Sage have about 10 machines that are all so similar to each other. They brought innovation to a stale market 10 years ago and have done nothing since. I hope Ninja keep brining their innovation to a market that has moved at snail pace.
They've done nothing since? 😆😆. I don't think that's quite right, they've done a fair bit, in fact most of the innovations on the Ninja machine, and from other brands, have been borrowed from Sage/Breville.
Americans apparently don’t drink Americanos
Haha, they should have given it a "Europeano" button, don't suppose that quite has the same ring to it.
@@Coffee_Kev have they really Kev? I know you're a big Sage fan. I've been an owner of two Sage Bambino Plus' since 2019 and love them. But what have Sage done since the release of that machine? Basically dressed up old machines as new ones. I worry about the build quality of the Ninja but they are never short on innovation at the consumer end if the market. The thing that I'm most sick of in the sub £1000 market is that everyone adding built in grinders. I get that you need to cater for those who want both but with almost every new machine? It's stupid.
I like the one shot
Yeah. I disagree with the research. I drink Americanos and milk-based drinks. I also enjoy hot tea.
Kev I can only speak for myself but the issue with Sage is that their comparable machine, the touch impress, is way over priced. I’ve seen a review on Tom’s coffee corner comparing that machine with the ninja and it’s clear the ninja is a superior machine. One thing Sage could do to stand out from what is a crowded market place is to introduce much better grinders in their machines.
Aww I’m so glad I didn’t buy one yet as I’d love the water spout version. 😂
Yeah it's a little thing, but it's very handy. If you want to use it to make tea for example, as it produces a relatively consistent set volume of water, you can just press the button and walk away, do something else for the minute or so it'll take to fill the cup, not exactly instant, but it's probably quicker, more energy efficient and more convenient than boiling the kettle.
Well I just got my machine here in the US about 2 weeks ago, an now I'm returning it. I miss the hot water option from my Breville.
With the sheer number of models, I'd be curious if the rep is wrong about the 60/701 not coming to the US. I'd hope they are as the main downside for me was the Luxe not having a hot water dispenser, lol. If Ninja's gonna be stubborn about it I'm not above running a gd 220v line to my mf kitchen 😤
Re what the rep said at IFA, I think this was referring to the lack of the features the EU version has on the 601 (hot water, single espresso). I suspect they will release the 701 in the US, and I think it'll have the hot water option, I could be wrong of course.
I also got one, in the USA, that would stir milk but not to the point of making proper froth. Returned it.
@@Coffee_Kev I appreciate the reply and believe/assume you are correct implicitly and uncritically! Can't imagine they'd pass up the chance to offer more models especially if things are selling out right now.
Thanks for uploading your videos upside down so they look proper in my hemisphere
🙏
I am somewhat impatiently waiting for Ninja to get more stock in 😢
i would wish the sage (including the new oracle jet) would be far superior to the ninja. The build quality of the sage is better but the grinder is the same, the volumetric dosing is far worse and the temperature seems to be more inconsistent. For the price of 2000€ i would expect much more. The ninja however gives you everything you could wish for the price but i have some doubts in the quality of the grinder and the availability of replacement parts. i would wish there is a machine like the ninja just superior in quality.
I preordered on day 1 and got mine in the UK from Very (20% off for first order) and got it over a week ago. I do like it but it still hasn’t settled on the grind size and I’ve been using the same beans since I got it. It’s a pain tbh but hopefully it settles down soon.
When you say it hasn't settled, does it go a bit finer later in the day for example, then more coarse the next morning? Or it's just going all over the place with no pattern?
@@Coffee_Kev It’s all over the place mate, I’m at the point where I’m thinking about factory resetting it but I’m assuming at the moment the barista tech is struggling to switch between single and double baskets.
I’ve only used it to make single (usually singles) and double espresso based drinks in the mornings so far and it goes anywhere from 7 to 19 on the grind and can never seem to make its mind up, the singles are always nasty while the doubles seem to have found their mark on taste somewhat.
I’m not one for strong coffee but love the flavour so I have it set to low strength with everything else as it came out of the box.
It’s my first espresso machine other than my Tassimo so I’m getting used to it, I’ll give it some more time and learn as I go, no sense in resetting it just yet I think.
when you going to review the
La Specialista Maestro Espresso Machine?
Seeing the internals, I have a strong feeling that those plastic gears could strip if using lighter roasted beans and/or after some aging of the plastic, they seem like a big potential point of failure.
That they use a stainless steal thermoblock is very good though, as it doesn't corrode like aluminium ones do, so that may work for a long time is descaled regularly...
The pump could fail, but the fact that it is a regular Ulka pump (depending on the voltage model ofc) means that it is definetly replacable even if they don't deliberately provide parts.
But that is just my very amateurish observation on this machine. Knowledge that I acquired from my gaggiuino journey so far among other things.
Yeah it's defo a point re the gears, and I do think that this could happen if people are trying to grind light-medium roast single origins that may be a bit too dense & hard for the grinder, as I don't think it has a slipper clutch like the Sage machines have (although they don't always work anyway). Yeah it's a stainless thermoblock, the group is mainly Aluminium.
If there's one obvious potential point of failure, as you've said it would probably be the gears - this is one of the most common eventual point of failure with the Barista Express, and when getting hold of the genuine gears was difficult, it often meant 3D printed gears which often didn't last long. Thankfully the genuine Sage/Breville gears are available now, and they're just a few quid.
Ninja are starting to retail the commonly required external parts, shower screen, gasket, top burr and so on, and that's good, but it'll remain to be seen whether they do something similar with internal parts.
Ta
Kev
👏👏👏👏
Still really gutted that I got a dud unit of the Ninja that wouldn't steam milk properly....or at all really. I sent it back to Currys and got a refund. I've completely lost faith in it and won't be getting another one so now I have a dilemma. I'm thinking of dipping my toe in the super automatic pool and trying out a De'Longhi Dinamica Plus. I might also put my pennies aside for a while and get a Sage Impress Touch. Fingers crossed for a Black Friday deal. I just wish there was somewhere you could go to actually try these machines out.
To be fair there are always duds, with all brands, I know it's very disappointing, but it does happen
@@Coffee_Kev Yeah I managed to get a dud Barista Express Impress too so my luck has really been in with coffee machines recently. 😂
When I look on eBay for used machines the number of sage ones sold as faulty/parts only is worryingly high if that’s supposed to be the well made option.
We've got a 10+ year old La Pavoni Domus Bar and had it serviced by Sco-Tech in Perth recently. Their guy won't touch Sage machines, which says it all.
@bridgetcrossman708 to be fair the fact he won't touch Sage machines probably speaks to the parts availability, rather than to the quality of the machines.
Most professional espresso machine repair folk in the past wouldn't offer to work on Sage machines, simply because for a long time, they couldn't get parts. I know of a few firms who would have loved to have been able to take that on, as there are so many Sage machines out there, it could potentially be great business, but getting hold of the parts was very difficult, you had to bring them over from Germany or somewhere else. There was only one out of warranty support partner that could get parts, so the other repair firms didn't bother.
Now that parts are available in the UK, it's easier for repair folks to offer to repair Sage machines, but a lot of them probably don't even realise that this has changed, it's fairly recent.
Cheers
Kev
Coffee machines just like any other machines, contain components with a life span. So at some point, all machines will stop working, but that doesn't mean they're destined for the bin. Often it'll be 5 years or more down the line, the owners are ready for a new machine anyway, so they'll sell them on, and replace them.
Sage machines can be repaired, you can replace failed or worn out components. The reason you'll find them on eBay is that they sell, because people can get parts for them, get them back working again and use them themselves or sell them on.
The fact that when they break, they're being sold to someone who's prepared to put in the effort to fixt them, rather than just being binned, is a very positive thing in my opinion.
A good bit of data would be how many machines from a coffee machine brand hits the tip every year, vs how many of them are being sold to be reconditioned to brew another day.
With Sage machines, in most cases there's no reason to bin them, unless the cost of repair makes it a pointless exercise, which is rare as most of the components that need replacing are fairly low cost.
The most common Sage machine you'll see is the Barista Express. Keep in mind this has been one of the highest selling coffee machines in the UK for several years, crazy numbers of them have sold, and the number you'll see for sale spares/repair on eBay is likely to be a teeny weeny percentage of the number that have sold in the past 5 years.
For example, see this: (the first "not working" sage machine that came up for an Ebay search) bit.ly/4gTN9eo
It'll probably just be the grinder gear, a little plastic cog. You can get the gear here for about a tenner: coffeeclassics.co.uk/product/gear-main-kit/ and if you're handy with tools, you'd probably be able to fix it yourself watching a couple of youtube videos - or, just do what I'd do ;-), speak to Radu at espressorepairshop.co.uk/ - or another espresso machine engineer - it's not a huge job.
You'd then probably have that machine for a good couple of years before another component reaches the end of it's days, and a lot of the components that will go over time are fairly cheap.
I took a Barista Pro to Radu recently, 4/5 years old, water wasn't flowing properly, and the solenoid valve just needed a bit of a clean, that was it, all working again, no new parts required.
I took one of my battered reconditioned several year old Sage Dual Boilers to him a year or so ago, that was playing up, it was literally an O-ring that had degraded, there was a bit of an internal leak and the triac board had gone, this: coffeeclassics.co.uk/product/triac-pcb-assembly/ £24 part, very easy fix and it's been going strong again since.
So the question with Ninja coffee machines is whether there will be parts available for them, and whether it'll be possible to swap them out when they fail. Will they be hitting skips in a few years time when, inevitably some parts begin to fail, or will parts be available?
At least some of the internal components are relatively standard, so I think some of them will be fine in that regard, but it's specific things like the grinder gears, will they be making genuine gears available in the future or will people have to resort to 3D printed, which tend to not be as durable as the genuine gears.
Only time will tell.
Cheers,
Kev
@Coffee_Kev Yeah, he mentioned the parts issue but seemed not to have a very good opinion of Sage machines in general. As long as he keeps my old La Pavoni going (without it being too dear) I'm happy!
Mine seemed to break in some way after about 10 days of use. It started out making good brews. Then it took a dive and started making really bad espresso. Waiting to get a replacement from ninja. They confirmed it should act this way and said we could get a replacement. But, they don’t have any in stock. So, I’m stuck with a $500 hole in my wallet that I can’t fill with a refund.
that's very annoying I can imagine!! I've heard of a few duds, but then from what I can gather they've sold HUGE numbers, so the number of duds may be a very insignificant percentage, and there are always a small percentage of duds even with premium machines, to be fair to them.
This is all too dicey for me... the one you have there clearly has a hot water dispense button.... the one on the link you have posted (and is the only one on the Ninja store on Amazon) is the ES601UK Model, and does NOT have a "hot water dispense" button on it.
ALL of the retailers listing pre-order for the 701 (Pro) version are showing photos of a machine with a tamping lever but no hot water dispense button. So I cannot for the life of me figure out what is going on with the model numbers vs button configurations. The Ninja Kitchen website doesn't even make reference to the fact there are going to be 3 models available (in fact they are only showing one model on their own website with no option to buy or even pre-order).
So for now.... I give up LOL
The ES601UK does have a hot water button and spout, it does not show it on any of the pictures though and is not mentioned in the instruction book. I was unsure which version would arrive but mine is ES601UK and has the spout and button. I pre ordered from currys.
I like a weapons grade large filter coffee. My wife likes ponsey coffee but will have NFI how to make one.
Is this the machine for us or not?
What beans do you recommend from the coffeeworks for this machine? Mostly milk drinks (lattes / flat whites and also iced lattes) looking to change my subscription :-)
Americans don't get the machine that makes Americano.. wtf
I’m in Canada and wholeheartedly disagree. I would love all these features especially the hot water spout!
Yeah I can't imagine anyone choosing to not have the hot water spout, unless of course it meant paying extra, but I just can't imagine that adding the hot water option changes the build cost that much, it's just a pipe that bypasses the group, I'd imagine the extra cost is a couple of quid, if that.
Exactly!
I'm in Canada and have had the machine 2 weeks. I'm happy with the machine overall but now I'm disappointed that there is a version out there that can add hot water.
If I had known it would be available soon, I would have waited.
Any news on the oracle jet into the UK yet??
Very soon!
Nonsense, of course Americans would want those features. This is just Ninja not wanting to lose money on the stock they've already manufactured. I was waiting for this revision to come out in the States before I made a purchase and if this is how they are choosing to deal with the US market the machine is now off my shopping list. Shame
Give Americans the extra features especially the hot water!
I don't think the missing features for the American models has anything to do with wants or needs, and everything to do with costs. Remove some features and bring it to market at a certain price point. Any other reason makes no sense and in any case, it a st@pid decision.
Yeah you may be right, it is significantly cheaper in America than the European version.
How come I should know what a PID is? And I also thaught the barista assist was about having control over the extraction. Isn't it?
You're right I should have explained what the heck I was on about when I said PID, I usually do. PID just means a temperature control algorithm, Proportional Integral Derivative, think of it like a more advanced thermostat. Usually, a machine with a PID will have better temp stability than a machine without a PID, all things considered.
The Barista assist means that the machine can figure out roughly what grind size you should be using for espresso, it makes it much easier to get pretty decent results without going through a home barista learning curve.
What I meant about control over extraction is that you don't quite have the same amount of manual control over extraction with this machine that you would with a traditional machine, mainly when it comes to the dose and ratio.
If you're just wanting pretty decent results pretty easily, though, this is what this machine is for in my opinion.
Cheers, Kev.
@@Coffee_KevThanks a lot Kev. Yes, you explain things really well usually. Nothing to complain about there. Interesting that a Sage/Breville will give me more options to dial in the perfect shot. But I have really gotten interested in the Ninja, and are planning to buy it. Hope there is not too many compromices. Good to hear you like the "filter" coffe, since it will be used a lot, especially when friends and family are visiting. I think I will go for this swiss army knife. Look forward to see your coming videos about it. I live in Norway, and none of the normal shops have it for preorder yet. Thanks for your very fine work! Ronny
Does it make one shot?
guess ill have to return mine and get a European version...
I'd imagine there are a few people who didn't want to wait, who imported the US version over into Europe (as I did so I could review it) who are now regretting that decision! Cheers, Kev.
You mean the mere mortals of Europe can now get the Luxe? Wow, first we get running water, and now this. Sorry, about the sarcasm, but a staggered roll-out "went the way of the dodo" back in the 90's. Ironically, just like saying "went the way of the dodo" 😀
Haha, actually releasing like this is still very common, Sage/Breville do exactly the same with their new machines. I think it's probably just quite difficult to do a worldwide launch, even doing it like this, Ninja clearly haven't been able to produce nearly enough stock to keep up with the initial demands in any of the countries they've released so far.
@@Coffee_Kev You make a good point.
Your Amazon link doesn’t work properly. Just takes you to a dodgy pre order page with 2 options to pre order for £889. Should be about £550.
The link is correct, it's the Amazon page that has changed, they have removed the pre-order option (must have sold out again) and the pricy ones you're seeing are other purchase options. I've removed the link, I'll put it back when it's available again at the usual price. Cheers 👍
Imagine not having an Americano option in North America.
Are they making another version of this that will have a hot water feature in the US? Or should I just get the machine now?
I think the 701 "pro" will have a hot water button in the US. Cheers, Kev.
@@Coffee_Kev thanks do you know when it will be released and also I'm new to the coffee game and I would prefer like a flavored French vanilla or coffee bean what would you suggest?
So, Americans aren’t interested in Americanos…? Doubt that very much. I will wait to buy one until they provide the new model to North America.
Apologies for the dumb question but what's the rationale behind wanting the hot water feature? More flexibility?
It just means you have the ability to make Americano and tea without boiling the kettle. Also handy for things like cleaning the portafilter and preheating cups. It's quite slow but the hottest setting is pretty hot 👍
Do you think it is worthwhile / safe to use a puck screen with this machine?
I can't see any reason that it wouldn't be safe, but to be honest I'm not a huge advocate of puck screens anyway. Other than helping to keep the shower screen clean, unless it's a machine that doesn't have a 3 way solenoid that is therefore thrashing the puck from start to finish with water pressure, I don't really see a huge benefit in using a puck screen. I've not seen any puck disturbance on the Luxe, so it's not something I'd even considered to be honest. A portafilter paper under the puck, though, would be an interesting experiment I think. Ta :-), Kev.
@@Coffee_Kev thanks for your thoughts!. Only reason I have been thinking about it is that even in the finest grind the espresso pours quite quickly.
This is our first B2C machine so don’t know if we are doing something wrong.
Los americanos no estarían interesados en el café americano.... Claro! ... Creo que van a despedir a alguien en las oficinas de Konoha.
American market for beta-testing😂
Haha, maybe, does seem like a huge test though ;-)
I would think Americans would be MORE interested in the hot water spout seeing as most don’t have electric kettles…