Back in 1960 I got taken to Aylesbury for a 9th birthday treat as I wanted to see the Underground trains which I always thought were very exciting. Imagine my disappointment when I saw that it was just boring old steam locomotives and not the electric trains I was hoping to see. I do remember the amazing frequency of the Metropolitan service though, just a non stop stream of trains arriving and leaving. As Jago says, all these years on the line still hasn't been electrified...
@@Londontransitduck They will have to lay the third/fourth rails for the electrification tho, unless they find a way to have Underground trains run using overhead catenary.
Dont you wish Jago was around in the late C19th. His advertising skills would be so useful in promoting rail routes , gaining investors, and shaping London's underground network (Hang on he's not Yerkes back again)
You can get as far as Chesham on the underground and change there, although it is not part of the London zone fair system, which I guess is the important part for many. I suppose it would be possible, in principle, to electrify the line as far as Aylesbury from Chesham, but I can't imagine the Chiltern Line being keen of that as it would likely affect their income from the Marylebone terminus.
There has never been a direct service to Aylesbury from Chesham, which is a branch line terminus of the Metropolitan Line. Met trains used to run to Aylesbury from Chalfont & Latimer and Amersham, however.
There was a scheme in the early 1980's to single the line north of Amersham and transfer it back to LU after electrification. Trains from Aylesbury would have run via Princes Risborough to Paddington with Marylebone being turned into a coach terminus. Thankfully it came to nothing and the line saw a huge resurgence under Adrian Shooter. Now however Chiltern seem intent on killing it with less frequent services and the use of the terrible 2+3 seating Class 165 units which would be fine if the only users were under 5's but for adults are simply ridiculous.
A man more than 100 years ahead of his time, and of his Channel tunnel is part of the the existing one, and he still made a better job than HS2 has done so far.
I worked on the Metropolitan line for over 37 years, I always wanted it to go back out to Aylesbury, there were constant rumours that it would, but it never did...😢
I well remember travelling from Woodford Halse to Aylesbury in the late 50's. Market day was on Saturday, the clock tower in the centre of the market stalls and it was a joy to browse around the area. Some Manchester - Marylebone express passenger trains stopped at Aylesbury en route which benefitted from both commuter and main line feeds. With Gresley A3,s and V2,s common place heading long distance trains ,sadly once Beeching had wheeled his axe Aylesbury become a terminus. I still have found memories of yesteryear.
In the 1980s did it nearly become part of the underground again. In the mid 1980s 3 line closures were announced. The Carlisle and Sttle, Henley in Arden to Stratford plus London Marylebone. Fortunately none happened. The plans were to run High Wycombe trains into Paddington and Aylesbury trains into Baker Street. Very badly thought out but it must have meant Aylesbury being part of the underground again?
Facinating video as always. Makes me wonder, was there a point in the 1930s where the underground could be used to travel from Aylesbury to Southend-on-Sea, using the metropolitan line and district lines? That would be an 80 mile journey!
Uniquely in the whole Underground system, the electrified track between Harrow on the Hill and Amersham, used by Chiltern trains between London Marylebone and Aylesbury Vale Parkway, is owned, operated and managed by London Underground. In particular, the Underground signalling system used on the track means that all trains between London Marylebone and Aylesbury Vale Parkway must have the Underground 'tripcock' system on board. That system is used throughout the Underground system to stop trains passing signals at danger.
Tripcocks are on the way out - and have already (largely) gone on the Northern and Jubilee lines. The new signalling system uses moving blocks rather than static signals and the tripcocks linked to them.
@@NicholasNA I believe Four Lines Modernisation (4LM), which will obviously do away with tripcocks, is due to go beyond Finchley Road this year (2024), along the obviously well known pair of outer Metropolitan tracks to Wembley Park (not simply because of the stadium, but they do provide a fast way to get there) and I suppose it will reach Amersham at some point. I don’t know if the long single track between Chalfont and Latimer and Chesham has any relevance as far as 4LM is concerned.
Another weird bit of history in the London Underground, so nice to see my local station get a video and seeing all the different angles of it that you were shooting from.
Thanks for this story of the Watkins Empire. Aylesbury wasn't the outermost outpost of the Met - it wound its way through the Buckinghamshire fields through Quainton Road (now a rail heritage mecca) and on to Verney Junction. From there you could (connections permitting) take trains to Oxford and Cambridge and northward to Buckingham and Banbury.
The LT museum ran a heritage event from Wembley park to Claydon junction (now the east west rail route) with a stop at quainton road in 2019. That was far by the best heritage day out. I also live close by and you can still see the marks in the landscape where the met used to run between quainton road and verney junction.
Not mentioned on this video, but connected to it is that, not too many miles away, are the remains of what was surely one of the weirdest parts of the Metropolitan Railway and which was briefly part of the London Underground system. That is what was originally called the Brill Tramway, which ran from Quainton (the next station up the line from Aylesbury at the time) to the small village of Brill over a distance of some 6 miles. It was a light railway built privately by the 3rd Duke of Buckingham in 1871, initially as a horse tramway, but later operated by steam hauled locomotives. The route was upgraded in the 1890s to something closer to mainline standards, but a plan to extend the line to Oxford came to nothing. It was in the 1890s that the line was absorbed by Metropolitan Railway and further upgraded in 1910. In 1933, it became the part of the London Underground network when the Metropolitan Railway became the Metropolitan Line of the London Transport. London Transport were not in the least interested in a very lightly used, uneconomic rural line running into Quainton, 40 miles from the centre of the city and, consequently, the line was closed in 1935. Very little remains, although the junction station at Quainton is now the location of the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre. The route can be traced and some railway buildings still exist converted to private houses. As an adjunct, there is also a possibility that that was the route of the Aylesbury and Buckingham line as far as Verney junction on the Bicester to Bletchley line may be re-opened to passenger traffic to provide a route to Bletchley. That is because what was known informally as the "Varsity Line" between Oxford and Cambridge is being upgraded and re-opened as part of an East-West corridor. It would be a very useful link for both passenger and goods traffic. The track north of Aylesbury through Quainton still exists, although it has long been closed for passenger traffic. However, I cannot imagine the line to Buckingham ever being reopened.
And of course, the branch to Vernay Junction after Quainton Road, the furthest point from London on the Metropolitan Railway some 50 miles out, with a 4-way junction with the Bletchley and Oxford Line, and the line northwest-ward to Buckingham, Brackley and Banbury. A very isolated rural location, nearly 2 miles from the nearest village.
I think you're confusing the two lines that ran north from Quainton Road to meet the LNWR Oxford- Bletchley line at Calvert and Verney Junction respectively. The former was the Great Central's main line to Sheffield, the latter was the Metropolitan Railway. The GCR route remainhs open for freight, and it is that one that may be reopened to connect Aylesbury to Milton Keynes at some future date.
@@norbitonflyer5625 Thanks for clarifying that. I'd not thought that there would be two lines, but now I look at my OS maps there were. In any event, a link between the Bicester-Bletchley line would have quite a lot of potential without, I would hope, too much cost as I don't think there is much in the way of major engineering works along the route and there's not exactly a lot of people living on that route to complain about it. However, the way that railway civil engineering cost increase in this country is astonishing, who knows?
@@TheEulerIDMaybe history will repeat itself? Many lines were originally built in the expectation that they would stimulate housing development and thus provide a customer base (Metroland!). I wonder if re-opening long closed lines within easy reach of London would have the same effect? I live 35 miles from the capital and around here the new estates are appearing at quite a rate. Of course, the prospect of seeing rural idylls going under concrete and brick will give some backlash. I remember someone saying "A developer is someone who wants to build a house in the countryside, a conservationist is someone who has already got one."
I’m sure there’s *someone* who watches youtube without being online by getting another person to download videos for them. The world is a fascinating place.
I used to do something like that for my grandma. She had no internet and lived between a massive hill and a forest so the mobile signal wasn't strong enough.
Thanks for coming to my hometown. I've got a photograph of the station from the 1890s, I believe. Sadly, I've never seen any photos of the temporary wooden station at the end of Brook Street. To be fair, there aren't that many photos dating back that far anyway so I would be very surprised to find one. Being a local historian I've read about the old railways and have found a lot of interesting bits of information about them. You mentioned the Aylesbury to Cheddington line - did you know that back in the late 19th century plans were put forward to connect both High Street and Town stations? The link was to follow the line of Exchange Street with a level crossing at Walton Street. I think the problem was that people didn't want that level crossing over such a busy road and also the owner of the Bear Inn, which stood in the way, didn't want to sell up. In the end it was just abandoned, probably down to it being too expensive.
I recently went to Aylesbury for the first time, lovely area. There are a lot of concerts over there that would interest me, but no late trains or tube means that I need to stay for the night. I wish that the Met line there still existed now!
The reverse isn't much better! Having to get back from London to Aylesbury late night is a nerve wracking affair of clock watching because missing that last train, which isn't very late, by a few minutes is a soul destroying event.
@@nickryan3417 I know that because I have friends that live there and always have doubts about being able to make it to the last train. A pity that the service isn't working till later!
Of all my interests in railways this area fascinates me the most. I learned a lot about the Metropolitain railway in my many visits to the Buckingham railway centre at Quainton Road, and think that it was amazing that the line reached as far as Verney Junction, roughly 8 miles from my home town of Bicester.
Also Aylesbury was the most jointly owned station The Great Western/Great Central & The Great Central/Metropolitan Joint Committee, also I have photographs of the Metropolitan red pannier tanks working there in the late 1960s
Interesting parallels here with Jago's previous post about the Elizabeth line. two routes trying to be both long distance and city based rapid transport.
On my occasional visits to SE England, I have been past London Underground stations outside Greater London like Epping (Essex), Watford and Moor Park (Hertfordshire), and Amersham and Chesham (Buckinghamshire) and wondered how much the urban development that inspired Metroland in the first part of the 20th century might have reached had it not been for the Green Belt elements of the Town and Country Planning Act of 1947. There again, London is surrounded by a fairly comprehensive network of mainline stations, often in surprisingly small places, so perhaps it wouldn't have made much difference, if the Metropolitan Line still extened to Aylesbury. I think I may have answered my own question!
Did you know Aylesbury was originally broad gauge when it opened on the current site in 1863 as part of the Wycombe Railway via Princes Risborough and was the first line in England to be converted to standard gauge in 1868.
The Wycombe Railway's branch to Aylesbury was actually the FIFTH line in England to be converted to Standard Gauge. The first line was the Somerset Central Railway (which was independent of the GWR), between Burnham and Wells, on 31st August 1861. This was done to facilitate better compatibility with the Standard Gauge Dorset Central Railway, which the Somerset Central wanted to connect to and amalgamate with to form the Somerset & Dorset Railway. The second line was the GWR-owned Stratford-on-Avon Railway, between Hatton and a point just west of the old Stratford-on-Avon terminus in Birmingham Road, on 1st January 1863. This was done as the aforementioned Stratford-on-Avon terminus was to be abandoned and the line re-routed to a new station which would connect it to the West Midland Railway's Standard Gauge line from Stratford-on-Avon to Honeybourne. The third line was a small section of the LBSCR's Main Line between the old Battersea Park & Steamboat Pier station and Longhedge Junction, on 7th October 1865. This was used by a GWR Broad Gauge service into London Victoria from the West London Line, which briefly ran between 1863 and 1866. The line was converted as the West London Line was re-routed to connect to LC&DR's Main Line at Stewarts Lane Junction instead. On 30th July 1866 the GWR obtained the legal powers necessary to allow it to completely convert all of it's network to Standard Gauge. This program would steadily be carried out over the next 26 years. The fourth line was the section of track between London Victoria and Chelsea Basin Junction on the West London Line, on some unknown date in November 1866. This was done as the GWR's services into London Victoria were withdrawn, and there were no longer any Broad Gauge trains running along this route. The GWR did still run a Broad Gauge goods train over the West London Line into Chelsea Basin, which would be withdrawn in 1875. And finally we get to the Wycombe Railway's branch from Princes Risborough to Aylesbury, which was converted on 25th May 1868. This was the first line to be converted as part of the GWR's nationwide gauge-conversion program, which is probably why you thought is was the first line ever to be converted.
@@kevinrayner5812 Indeed it was. In fact, that was actually the first ever proposal for any main line railway into Oxford (proposed in 1836), predating the GWR''s first failed proposal in 1837. The line itself opened to Aylesbury in 1839, but by then the planned Oxford extension had already been dropped. The GWR would eventually get it's proposed line to Oxford built in 1844 (this was actually their THIRD attempt at an Oxford line), which was the first railway to Oxford to actually be built. In a similar vein, the Metropolitan Railway had plans to extend the Quainton Road to Brill Tramway into Oxford, which would have made for a similar connection between Aylesbury and Oxford. They even re-named the line to the "Oxford & Aylesbury Tramroad" in anticipation of this. Of course, this planned railway line also didn't happen, so there has never been a direct rail link between the two towns.
I seem to recall that Watkins had great plans for the Chesham branch, going on to Tring and the LNWR there. Perhaps Jago could enlighten us on this as well.
Back in my days as a boy commuter is the mid / late 70's on a Friday evening there was a 17.48 service to Manchester that went up the Wycombe line from Paddington and must have joined around Ruislip somewhere, it always seemed to have a lot of stops en route via Birmingham and beyond. As ever an education. There was also the line up to Verney Junction which is now long since abandoned and restored to agriculture./ Our very good friends Mr Tim Dunn and le divine Siddy Holloway featured the old line on an episode of The Secrets of the London Underground, well worth a watch
Yes, I remember seeing that solitary service in the timetable. I think it got cut back to Birmingham for some years before finally disappearing. The lines join at South Ruislip. Until last year you could travel (once a week) on a train from West Ealing to West Ruislip via Greenford that traversed part of that section. It's been replaced by a bus.
I was at school in Rickmansworth and I remember well the change over from Metrovick Bo-Bos to tank engines at Rickmansworth. I loved the 'Dreadnought' stock and wished that the then 'new' A60 stock should have been painted brown instead of aluminium...to 'ease the passing'.
Fantastic “Not-actually Tale From Da Tube”, Sir. Jago Hazzard. If there were a JAGO HAZZARD LINE 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧, that would go to *AYLESBURY* without any further ado!
When I worked on the first Crossrail scheme in the 90s, Aylesbury was the other planned western destination. I was responsible for the section that was on the BR tracks beyond Amersham. The boundary is at a place called Mantles Wood and it is a good way further on than the reversing sidings beyond Amersham. LU has to look after this section of track that its trains never run on. We didn’t consider Aylesbury in the long list route options for the revived Crossrail in 2001/2 because the SRA did not want us messing with the successful long franchise that was Chiltern.
@@tommilton5753 Nothing that far out to my knowledge. What demand would it serve? The M25 mainly exists so long distance road journeys can avoid London. Orbital railways are useful where they are connecting O&D pairs with high demand to decongest the radial routes people would otherwise use. I don’t see that as a high need in the area of the M25.
Didn't the Metropolitan line even extend beyond Aylesbury as far as Verney Junction for a time? Would be interesting to hear about that and see what the site looks like if you ever have the chance to make a video about it...
Jago. Any chance of doing something on the stations between Amersham & Aylesbury, as these tend to get overlooked by all the commentators keen to tell us details of the line to Brill or Verney Junction.
Not only was the MS&L nicknamed the "Money Sunk and Lost", when it changed its name to the Great Central it became "Gone Completely". That indeed became the fate of most of its London extension line 60 years later.
Nice video as usual. Thanks! I wonder whether they'll extend the DLR to Essex... I heard long ago it was going go to Southend. Im sure you might have mentioned this in an older video. Cheers :)
(Sir) Edward Watkin must have been a real force of nature, I guess he was admired and feared in equal measure. In my readings of his life and times I cannot help but be impressed by the magnitude and scope of the many projects he championed. It is equally interesting to see just how fast many of these epic projects were abandoned after his death, leading to the feeling that it was by the force of his personality alone that they were driven forward.
the mindset that going fast will "save time" is still very much alive. this can be witnessed on city streets where people in personal vehicles, will tear off from a stoplight in a desperate race to shave off a second or two getting to... the next stoplight...
Time for Jago Hazzard to start saving up for some wellies, so he can stand in the field that used to be Verney Junction and take some video of cows: "The London-bound platform would have been where the cow on the left is." 🤪
Interesting 🤔 and also, if my memory serves correctly, the bakerloo line used to go all the way to Watford Junction. Another tale from the tube perhaps?!😉🤷🏾♂️😁
Little tidbit: Yes, they haven't electrified that section of the London - Aylesbury Line even after all these years. That means that Marylebone is the only London terminus to exclusively host diesel trains, as none of its other services run on electrified lines either. Honestly, given its status as a major commuter line, I do wonder if there is value in electrifying that stretch of the line and reinstating the Met's service. It would render the NR service along the line fairly redundant I suppose, but still. Great video!
Could nearby and parallel HS2 support complete Aylesbury electrification now ? Also since the EWR appears to be going battery/intermittent-electric now for futureproofing EWR ? Then of course tying in Aylesbury with the EWR and upgrades.
Jago,just think of how many of Edward Watkin's dreams,actually came true! The Chunnel should,at least,be called Watkin station,and since,like the Stephenson's,his interests were on the Continent,those areas bare looking into!! Yerkes wasn't the only person to have wide ranging interests,that long term,changed the planet! Thank you,for an interesting video,please,more of the same!! Thank you 😇 😊! P.S.,the Long Island has a rather extended reach,as the Southside Main,reaches Montauk[117 miles],and the North Side Main,reaches Greenport! Really close to the New York Metropolitan area!! MetroNorth is as bad,as it goes to Poughkeepsie! Anyway,keeps everyone on their toes! Thank you 😇 😊!
Thank you for this video, I've learned a lot! I just moved to Aylesbury and I was wondering if the Metropolitan could reach Aylesbury in the future. Honestly, it would be nice to have an alternative to Chiltern. Anyway, I would prefer buses operated later in Aylesbury and Buckinghamshire, as it's very hard to travel between towns (or if you live far from the Aylesbury station) once the night falls unless you go for expensive cabs!
Have you thought of doing John Betjeman? Metroland and St Pancras. You could do most of it from what you've already filmed. His poems are still in copyright though, and that might be why you've not Betjemanned yet, and there's not a lot of poems directly related; but there are quotes. I think you might have already used this from 'Metroland': 'Send a postcard, for the homestead of your dreams, to 'Loudwater Estate', Chorley Wood.' And the start of 'Middlesex' is right up your line. 'Gaily into Ruislip Gardens Runs the red electric train, With a thousand Ta's and Pardon's Daintily alights Elaine; Hurries down the concrete station With a frown of concentration, Out into the outskirt's edges Where a few surviving hedges Keep alive our lost Elysium - rural Middlesex again.'
I live in aylesbury but my mum drives a train for the jubilee line so i have free travel with tfl, if the underground still went that far i could go to london for free whenever i wanted. Shame.
I understood that there were tentative plans to electrify to Aylesbury before the war and the trains were to terminate at the central platform, that no longer exists, at Kings Cross St Pancras. Does anybody know about those plans? After the end of Met Line trains from Aylesbury and it was diesel trains to Marylebone you did still occasionally set LT Pannier tanks on works trains north of Amersham.
Aylesbury's depot shunter 01509 "Lesley". It's a military military-surplus Ruston & Horsby shuter built some time in the 1960s, and has been Aylesbury's depot shunter since 2010. The 01/5 classification is used for all small shunting engines that may from time to time need to venture onto network Rail tracks.
Noy quite the same. The District didn't own the track beyond Ealing Broadway - (it didn't even own the track between Ravenscourt Park, Turnham Green and Richmond)
@@MrCobo04 District trains ran to Windsor, and were also discontinued, long before any 'tube' line was built (and the District wasn't a 'tube' anyway, nor was the Metropolitan). So, no 'tube' trains ever went to Windsor...
@@MrCobo04I am replying to you saying that 'tubes still ran to Windsor', which they didn't - the 'tubes' hadn't been built, or even thought of at that time.
So, if I understand correctly: they wanted to build a line between Manchester and London, but it turned out to be ruinously expensive... and this happened in the 19th century? Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Didn’t the Met run out to Verney Junction via Quainton? I think it also ran the Brill branch from Quainton. I’m still reeling from the concept of EIGHT trains per hour!
I beileve in the original 1980's Crossrail plan one branch would have gone to Aylesbury (the other to Reading) with only a single line to the east, but that it was dropped when actually built to have the two branches to the east one via docklands to Abbey Wood and the other via Stratford to Shenfield. That would have got it electrified!
Correct. Aylesbury was not considered when we looked at route options for the revived Crossrail in 2001/2 because the SRA did not want the Chiltern franchise messed with. We looked at other second western routes but none was viable enough to make it into the Bill.
@ennett9687 And Heathrow makes a very useful second western terminal option anyway. Interesting point, if Aylesbury had been added to Crossrail, would that have just been the route via High Wycombe? If not, how would the trains have got across to the Met line through Harrow?
@@iankemp1131 Heathrow was in the 90s scheme, not counted as a branch in itself. The peak service proposed for the branches was at one point 12tph GW (8 Readings, 4 Heathrows) and 12tph Aylesbury (8 Aylesbury, 4 Chesham), though that balance would probably have had to change given demand) The connection to the Met was to be via new track on the north edge of Old Oak Common depot to the Dudding Hill line.
Metropolis to Metropolis sounds like a good reason to have a Metropolitan line. So heres a question: The crash happened at 2am(ish) and was carrying passengers. Having missed trains at Euston (in my youth) and spent the night on the forecourt (with loads of others it has to be said) hardly any (if any) trains arrived or left. I'm not aware of any other London terminii being different. I did, however, catch a train from Sheffield at 01.35 which arrived at Manchester airport at around 4.30 (IIRC). SO... were night services more prevalent in the past or has it always been a rarity?
Certainly until the 1980s there were several overnight trains. Mainly for carrying mail or newspapers, but suually included a carriage or two. I often used the 2355 off Kings Cross, whiuch went to Leeds, changing at Retford in the wee small hours for another overnighter from Manchester to Grimsby. Not very fast, but who wants to get anywhere before 6am anyway?
Yes, it was fairly common to add a couple of passenger coaches to mail trains and some newspaper trains. The latter were often very fast, but only outward from London. One enthusiast actually recorded a number of runs on this very newspaper train in the 1920s and 1930s when using it regularly (one wonders why!). Night trains were also useful for crew returning home after a late turn, as in this case.
Hey Jago, can you do a video on the noise levels in the tube? Especially the screeching wheels on the Victoria line. Vauxhall to Pimlico is terrible - probably illegal!
Hi Jago, big fan of your videos! You mentioned Edward Watkin had interests in railways all around the world, does that include outside Europe? Either way, a video into his non-British interests would be very interesting
Hi, Jago , I have a question about the Piccadilly line that I have been wondering about since I was 3 years old . Why is there a what I call a stupid s bend between south ken and Knightsbridge stations ?. When I was a kid I thought the train would come off the tracks or get stuck. Is there a good reason? JH
It is commonly said that the S-bends are to fit under the streets, as buying the wayleave under buildings was more expensive, but if you look at the street pattern in the area you will see that it wouldn't have been necessary to have such tight bends. The reason is actually because the Piccadilly Line started out as three quite separate projects - the Great Northern and Strand, from Finsbury Park to Starnd (later renamed Aldwych); the Picadilly & Brompton, from Picadilly Circus to Brompton Road, near the V&A Museum; and the "Deep Level District" an express route from Hammersmith via South Kensington to Mansion House. Our friend Yerkes bought up all these unfinished projects (indeed, they had hardly been started) and stitched them together into one long line, with short extensions of the P&B at each end to connect to the other two, respectively at Holborn (leaving a stub to Aldwych which was eventually closed 85 years later) and at South Kensington. Because the Deep level District and Piccadilly & Brompton had originally been planned independently and followed two different, parallel, streets, the connection between them had to follow a tight S-bend to join up. The original DLD route was never built east of South Kensington , but the step-plate tunnel junctions where it would have gone straight on there can be seen at the east end of the eastbound platform and the west end of the west bound - and the separate levels of the two Picadilly platforms, and the extra westbound tunnel (now a circulation area) were all part of the plan for it to be a junction.
The underground should extend further than London having the London zone, suburb zone and outer zone. This means more money for TFL. TFL can also make separate companies like: transport for Cardiff, transport for Manchester etc. Great video though and I'm excited for more!
TfL doesn't make a profit. It is subsidised by the ratepayers of Greater London. Extending it further outside London than it already does would either require London ratepayers to pay to subsidise commuters from Herts, Bucks, Essex etc, or require residents of those counties to pay for it. Neither seem willing to do so (Essex does actiualy pay a bit towards the Central Line, which is why Epping is in the normal six fare zones, but there are extra zones for Herts and Bucks) It was because neither London nor Herts were willing to pay for it that the Croxley-Watford Junction link was never built. Anyway, before TfL start expanding outside Greater London, there are boroughs within south London, such as Bexley and Kingston, who have yet to see any rail services operated by TfL.
Back in 1960 I got taken to Aylesbury for a 9th birthday treat as I wanted to see the Underground trains which I always thought were very exciting. Imagine my disappointment when I saw that it was just boring old steam locomotives and not the electric trains I was hoping to see. I do remember the amazing frequency of the Metropolitan service though, just a non stop stream of trains arriving and leaving. As Jago says, all these years on the line still hasn't been electrified...
My personal favourite was the proposal for the Underground to go to Continental Europe.
Its still possible the euro tunnel could take a tube train to Brussels 🤔🤔👍👍
Mr yerkeys
Tube lines across the Atlantic. Retake New York and Chicago.
@@Londontransitduck They will have to lay the third/fourth rails for the electrification tho, unless they find a way to have Underground trains run using overhead catenary.
It is possible to modify a 1973 stock to run with over head power lines
Dont you wish Jago was around in the late C19th. His advertising skills would be so useful in promoting rail routes , gaining investors, and shaping London's underground network (Hang on he's not Yerkes back again)
Or maybe he is Watkins back again
@@chrisinnes2128 not from that surfshark putt
I travel up to aylesbury a lot and I cannot TELL YOU how often I wish the underground still reached there
You can get as far as Chesham on the underground and change there, although it is not part of the London zone fair system, which I guess is the important part for many. I suppose it would be possible, in principle, to electrify the line as far as Aylesbury from Chesham, but I can't imagine the Chiltern Line being keen of that as it would likely affect their income from the Marylebone terminus.
There has never been a direct service to Aylesbury from Chesham, which is a branch line terminus of the Metropolitan Line. Met trains used to run to Aylesbury from Chalfont & Latimer and Amersham, however.
I tend to just either switch to chiltern rail at either harrow-on-the-hill or Amersham
@@ianmcclavin Apologies, I meant Amersham.
There was a scheme in the early 1980's to single the line north of Amersham and transfer it back to LU after electrification. Trains from Aylesbury would have run via Princes Risborough to Paddington with Marylebone being turned into a coach terminus. Thankfully it came to nothing and the line saw a huge resurgence under Adrian Shooter. Now however Chiltern seem intent on killing it with less frequent services and the use of the terrible 2+3 seating Class 165 units which would be fine if the only users were under 5's but for adults are simply ridiculous.
A man more than 100 years ahead of his time, and of his Channel tunnel is part of the the existing one, and he still made a better job than HS2 has done so far.
If the Great Central line had never closed there might be no reason to build HS2.
His channel tunnel wasn't much either. Nice sideburns tho...
"In these wet fields, the railway didn't pay.
The Metro stops at Amersham today"
I worked on the Metropolitan line for over 37 years, I always wanted it to go back out to Aylesbury, there were constant rumours that it would, but it never did...😢
_Now_ I understand Aylesbury. Thank you Jago for my education.
I well remember travelling from Woodford Halse to Aylesbury in the late 50's. Market day was on Saturday, the clock tower in the centre of the market stalls and it was a joy to browse around the area. Some Manchester - Marylebone express passenger trains stopped at Aylesbury en route which benefitted from both commuter and main line feeds. With Gresley A3,s and V2,s common place heading long distance trains ,sadly once Beeching had wheeled his axe Aylesbury become a terminus.
I still have found memories of yesteryear.
Jago, I for one would love more videos outside of London
you are quite the story teller
Tales from Beyond the Tube...
+1 😊
In the 1980s did it nearly become part of the underground again. In the mid 1980s 3 line closures were announced. The Carlisle and Sttle, Henley in Arden to Stratford plus London Marylebone. Fortunately none happened. The plans were to run High Wycombe trains into Paddington and Aylesbury trains into Baker Street. Very badly thought out but it must have meant Aylesbury being part of the underground again?
Really have to respect the quality of your videos Jago. Considering you upload every couple of days, we appreciate your hard work 🫶🏾
Facinating video as always. Makes me wonder, was there a point in the 1930s where the underground could be used to travel from Aylesbury to Southend-on-Sea, using the metropolitan line and district lines? That would be an 80 mile journey!
Uniquely in the whole Underground system, the electrified track between Harrow on the Hill and Amersham, used by Chiltern trains between London Marylebone and Aylesbury Vale Parkway, is owned, operated and managed by London Underground. In particular, the Underground signalling system used on the track means that all trains between London Marylebone and Aylesbury Vale Parkway must have the Underground 'tripcock' system on board. That system is used throughout the Underground system to stop trains passing signals at danger.
Tripcocks are on the way out - and have already (largely) gone on the Northern and Jubilee lines. The new signalling system uses moving blocks rather than static signals and the tripcocks linked to them.
@@NicholasNA I believe Four Lines Modernisation (4LM), which will obviously do away with tripcocks, is due to go beyond Finchley Road this year (2024), along the obviously well known pair of outer Metropolitan tracks to Wembley Park (not simply because of the stadium, but they do provide a fast way to get there) and I suppose it will reach Amersham at some point. I don’t know if the long single track between Chalfont and Latimer and Chesham has any relevance as far as 4LM is concerned.
Never thought I'd see my little old town/station on here. Neat:)
This New Yorker was hoping for this video for some time. Keep up the great work.
Another weird bit of history in the London Underground, so nice to see my local station get a video and seeing all the different angles of it that you were shooting from.
Thanks for this story of the Watkins Empire. Aylesbury wasn't the outermost outpost of the Met - it wound its way through the Buckinghamshire fields through Quainton Road (now a rail heritage mecca) and on to Verney Junction. From there you could (connections permitting) take trains to Oxford and Cambridge and northward to Buckingham and Banbury.
The LT museum ran a heritage event from Wembley park to Claydon junction (now the east west rail route) with a stop at quainton road in 2019. That was far by the best heritage day out. I also live close by and you can still see the marks in the landscape where the met used to run between quainton road and verney junction.
One man's dream was the Chunnel, HS1 and HS2 combined. He was way ahead of his time and it's too bad his vision wasn't pursued.
Not mentioned on this video, but connected to it is that, not too many miles away, are the remains of what was surely one of the weirdest parts of the Metropolitan Railway and which was briefly part of the London Underground system. That is what was originally called the Brill Tramway, which ran from Quainton (the next station up the line from Aylesbury at the time) to the small village of Brill over a distance of some 6 miles. It was a light railway built privately by the 3rd Duke of Buckingham in 1871, initially as a horse tramway, but later operated by steam hauled locomotives. The route was upgraded in the 1890s to something closer to mainline standards, but a plan to extend the line to Oxford came to nothing. It was in the 1890s that the line was absorbed by Metropolitan Railway and further upgraded in 1910. In 1933, it became the part of the London Underground network when the Metropolitan Railway became the Metropolitan Line of the London Transport.
London Transport were not in the least interested in a very lightly used, uneconomic rural line running into Quainton, 40 miles from the centre of the city and, consequently, the line was closed in 1935. Very little remains, although the junction station at Quainton is now the location of the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre. The route can be traced and some railway buildings still exist converted to private houses.
As an adjunct, there is also a possibility that that was the route of the Aylesbury and Buckingham line as far as Verney junction on the Bicester to Bletchley line may be re-opened to passenger traffic to provide a route to Bletchley. That is because what was known informally as the "Varsity Line" between Oxford and Cambridge is being upgraded and re-opened as part of an East-West corridor. It would be a very useful link for both passenger and goods traffic.
The track north of Aylesbury through Quainton still exists, although it has long been closed for passenger traffic. However, I cannot imagine the line to Buckingham ever being reopened.
And of course, the branch to Vernay Junction after Quainton Road, the furthest point from London on the Metropolitan Railway some 50 miles out, with a 4-way junction with the Bletchley and Oxford Line, and the line northwest-ward to Buckingham, Brackley and Banbury. A very isolated rural location, nearly 2 miles from the nearest village.
I think you're confusing the two lines that ran north from Quainton Road to meet the LNWR Oxford- Bletchley line at Calvert and Verney Junction respectively. The former was the Great Central's main line to Sheffield, the latter was the Metropolitan Railway. The GCR route remainhs open for freight, and it is that one that may be reopened to connect Aylesbury to Milton Keynes at some future date.
Hmmm, this sounds like an idea for a potential Jago video one day...
@@norbitonflyer5625 Thanks for clarifying that. I'd not thought that there would be two lines, but now I look at my OS maps there were. In any event, a link between the Bicester-Bletchley line would have quite a lot of potential without, I would hope, too much cost as I don't think there is much in the way of major engineering works along the route and there's not exactly a lot of people living on that route to complain about it. However, the way that railway civil engineering cost increase in this country is astonishing, who knows?
@@TheEulerIDMaybe history will repeat itself? Many lines were originally built in the expectation that they would stimulate housing development and thus provide a customer base (Metroland!). I wonder if re-opening long closed lines within easy reach of London would have the same effect? I live 35 miles from the capital and around here the new estates are appearing at quite a rate. Of course, the prospect of seeing rural idylls going under concrete and brick will give some backlash. I remember someone saying "A developer is someone who wants to build a house in the countryside, a conservationist is someone who has already got one."
I’m sure there’s *someone* who watches youtube without being online by getting another person to download videos for them. The world is a fascinating place.
I used to do something like that for my grandma. She had no internet and lived between a massive hill and a forest so the mobile signal wasn't strong enough.
Thanks for coming to my hometown. I've got a photograph of the station from the 1890s, I believe. Sadly, I've never seen any photos of the temporary wooden station at the end of Brook Street. To be fair, there aren't that many photos dating back that far anyway so I would be very surprised to find one. Being a local historian I've read about the old railways and have found a lot of interesting bits of information about them. You mentioned the Aylesbury to Cheddington line - did you know that back in the late 19th century plans were put forward to connect both High Street and Town stations? The link was to follow the line of Exchange Street with a level crossing at Walton Street. I think the problem was that people didn't want that level crossing over such a busy road and also the owner of the Bear Inn, which stood in the way, didn't want to sell up. In the end it was just abandoned, probably down to it being too expensive.
Excellent video as always! Still in shock that you went to my childhood home in Aylesbury though 😅
I recently went to Aylesbury for the first time, lovely area. There are a lot of concerts over there that would interest me, but no late trains or tube means that I need to stay for the night. I wish that the Met line there still existed now!
The reverse isn't much better! Having to get back from London to Aylesbury late night is a nerve wracking affair of clock watching because missing that last train, which isn't very late, by a few minutes is a soul destroying event.
@@nickryan3417 I know that because I have friends that live there and always have doubts about being able to make it to the last train. A pity that the service isn't working till later!
In Kolkata, there has been a similar issue of what constitutes the city. The metro line continues to extend in every direction.
Of all my interests in railways this area fascinates me the most. I learned a lot about the Metropolitain railway in my many visits to the Buckingham railway centre at Quainton Road, and think that it was amazing that the line reached as far as Verney Junction, roughly 8 miles from my home town of Bicester.
Also Aylesbury was the most jointly owned station The Great Western/Great Central & The Great Central/Metropolitan Joint Committee, also I have photographs of the Metropolitan red pannier tanks working there in the late 1960s
Interesting parallels here with Jago's previous post about the Elizabeth line. two routes trying to be both long distance and city based rapid transport.
On my occasional visits to SE England, I have been past London Underground stations outside Greater London like Epping (Essex), Watford and Moor Park (Hertfordshire), and Amersham and Chesham (Buckinghamshire) and wondered how much the urban development that inspired Metroland in the first part of the 20th century might have reached had it not been for the Green Belt elements of the Town and Country Planning Act of 1947. There again, London is surrounded by a fairly comprehensive network of mainline stations, often in surprisingly small places, so perhaps it wouldn't have made much difference, if the Metropolitan Line still extened to Aylesbury. I think I may have answered my own question!
Did you know Aylesbury was originally broad gauge when it opened on the current site in 1863 as part of the Wycombe Railway via Princes Risborough and was the first line in England to be converted to standard gauge in 1868.
The Wycombe Railway's branch to Aylesbury was actually the FIFTH line in England to be converted to Standard Gauge.
The first line was the Somerset Central Railway (which was independent of the GWR), between Burnham and Wells, on 31st August 1861. This was done to facilitate better compatibility with the Standard Gauge Dorset Central Railway, which the Somerset Central wanted to connect to and amalgamate with to form the Somerset & Dorset Railway.
The second line was the GWR-owned Stratford-on-Avon Railway, between Hatton and a point just west of the old Stratford-on-Avon terminus in Birmingham Road, on 1st January 1863. This was done as the aforementioned Stratford-on-Avon terminus was to be abandoned and the line re-routed to a new station which would connect it to the West Midland Railway's Standard Gauge line from Stratford-on-Avon to Honeybourne.
The third line was a small section of the LBSCR's Main Line between the old Battersea Park & Steamboat Pier station and Longhedge Junction, on 7th October 1865. This was used by a GWR Broad Gauge service into London Victoria from the West London Line, which briefly ran between 1863 and 1866. The line was converted as the West London Line was re-routed to connect to LC&DR's Main Line at Stewarts Lane Junction instead.
On 30th July 1866 the GWR obtained the legal powers necessary to allow it to completely convert all of it's network to Standard Gauge. This program would steadily be carried out over the next 26 years.
The fourth line was the section of track between London Victoria and Chelsea Basin Junction on the West London Line, on some unknown date in November 1866. This was done as the GWR's services into London Victoria were withdrawn, and there were no longer any Broad Gauge trains running along this route. The GWR did still run a Broad Gauge goods train over the West London Line into Chelsea Basin, which would be withdrawn in 1875.
And finally we get to the Wycombe Railway's branch from Princes Risborough to Aylesbury, which was converted on 25th May 1868. This was the first line to be converted as part of the GWR's nationwide gauge-conversion program, which is probably why you thought is was the first line ever to be converted.
I also believe it was originally intended to extend the Cheddington to Aylesbury branch to Oxford.
@@kevinrayner5812 Indeed it was. In fact, that was actually the first ever proposal for any main line railway into Oxford (proposed in 1836), predating the GWR''s first failed proposal in 1837. The line itself opened to Aylesbury in 1839, but by then the planned Oxford extension had already been dropped. The GWR would eventually get it's proposed line to Oxford built in 1844 (this was actually their THIRD attempt at an Oxford line), which was the first railway to Oxford to actually be built.
In a similar vein, the Metropolitan Railway had plans to extend the Quainton Road to Brill Tramway into Oxford, which would have made for a similar connection between Aylesbury and Oxford. They even re-named the line to the "Oxford & Aylesbury Tramroad" in anticipation of this. Of course, this planned railway line also didn't happen, so there has never been a direct rail link between the two towns.
I seem to recall that Watkins had great plans for the Chesham branch, going on to Tring and the LNWR there. Perhaps Jago could enlighten us on this as well.
Back in my days as a boy commuter is the mid / late 70's on a Friday evening there was a 17.48 service to Manchester that went up the Wycombe line from Paddington and must have joined around Ruislip somewhere, it always seemed to have a lot of stops en route via Birmingham and beyond. As ever an education. There was also the line up to Verney Junction which is now long since abandoned and restored to agriculture./ Our very good friends Mr Tim Dunn and le divine Siddy Holloway featured the old line on an episode of The Secrets of the London Underground, well worth a watch
Yes, I remember seeing that solitary service in the timetable. I think it got cut back to Birmingham for some years before finally disappearing. The lines join at South Ruislip. Until last year you could travel (once a week) on a train from West Ealing to West Ruislip via Greenford that traversed part of that section. It's been replaced by a bus.
I was at school in Rickmansworth and I remember well the change over from Metrovick Bo-Bos to tank engines at Rickmansworth. I loved the 'Dreadnought' stock and wished that the then 'new' A60 stock should have been painted brown instead of aluminium...to 'ease the passing'.
Fantastic “Not-actually Tale From Da Tube”, Sir. Jago Hazzard.
If there were a JAGO HAZZARD LINE 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧, that would go to *AYLESBURY* without any further ado!
Another wonderful tale. Well done @jagohazard 👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
A cup of tea and a new Jago Hazzard video - there is no better (or more soothing) way to spend a Sunday!
Thank you for filling in a void in my historical knowledge.really fascinating.muchas hgracias!😊
Steam on the Met from Watford to Rickmansworth is nice, but I think they should run to Aylesbury for some special weekend one day
Why stop at Aylesbury run it on to Quaiton Road
Thank you. I enjoy your posts, which are all jolly good, but this is one of your better ones.
I wonder if Sir Edward Watkin and Charles T Yerkes ever met? I bet it would have made a good movie!! Another good un, Jago, keep em coming!
09:44 Love the old map and its busy NW corner!
lovely video and presentation! much appreciated the work.
No Yerkes but Watkin is a veritable runner up.
This is exactly why I love this channel. Excellent work, Jago!
When I worked on the first Crossrail scheme in the 90s, Aylesbury was the other planned western destination. I was responsible for the section that was on the BR tracks beyond Amersham. The boundary is at a place called Mantles Wood and it is a good way further on than the reversing sidings beyond Amersham. LU has to look after this section of track that its trains never run on. We didn’t consider Aylesbury in the long list route options for the revived Crossrail in 2001/2 because the SRA did not want us messing with the successful long franchise that was Chiltern.
Pardon my ignorance (I no longer live in London), but has there ever been any study of a second Circle Line, roughly paralleling the M25?
@@tommilton5753 Nothing that far out to my knowledge. What demand would it serve? The M25 mainly exists so long distance road journeys can avoid London. Orbital railways are useful where they are connecting O&D pairs with high demand to decongest the radial routes people would otherwise use. I don’t see that as a high need in the area of the M25.
And onwards to Verney junction, of course!
Thanks , Tim, we will see if the new longer trains will go through the s bend , they are 6 meters longer.
Didn't the Metropolitan line even extend beyond Aylesbury as far as Verney Junction for a time? Would be interesting to hear about that and see what the site looks like if you ever have the chance to make a video about it...
Jago. Any chance of doing something on the stations between Amersham & Aylesbury, as these tend to get overlooked by all the commentators keen to tell us details of the line to Brill or Verney Junction.
The Money Sunk and Lost became the Gone Completely.😊
Not only was the MS&L nicknamed the "Money Sunk and Lost", when it changed its name to the Great Central it became "Gone Completely". That indeed became the fate of most of its London extension line 60 years later.
Nice video as usual. Thanks!
I wonder whether they'll extend the DLR to Essex... I heard long ago it was going go to Southend. Im sure you might have mentioned this in an older video. Cheers :)
I've changed engines in 3 mins . CP rail to CN rail at Southern Yard same direction . It can be done .
all the b-roll of aylesbury station is giving me flashbacks to my childhood...
It's a bit of a trek to get out here to Aylesbury, Jago, so I hope you had a good time and that it didn't depress you too much, lol :D
(Sir) Edward Watkin must have been a real force of nature, I guess he was admired and feared in equal measure. In my readings of his life and times I cannot help but be impressed by the magnitude and scope of the many projects he championed. It is equally interesting to see just how fast many of these epic projects were abandoned after his death, leading to the feeling that it was by the force of his personality alone that they were driven forward.
Wow... I just picture that train pulling into a current underground station😵💫
the mindset that going fast will "save time" is still very much alive.
this can be witnessed on city streets where people in personal vehicles,
will tear off from a stoplight in a desperate race to shave off a second or two
getting to...
the next stoplight...
I gather they're calling it "hurry culture" now.
Very interesting video. Watkins was a visionary when it came to railways - it would have been interesting what would have happened had he lived longer
the segue into the sponsor's message was very slick, good work there
Getting closer and closer to Verney Junction 👀
Time for Jago Hazzard to start saving up for some wellies, so he can stand in the field that used to be Verney Junction and take some video of cows: "The London-bound platform would have been where the cow on the left is." 🤪
@@DavidShepheard "Take my money!"
Interesting 🤔 and also, if my memory serves correctly, the bakerloo line used to go all the way to Watford Junction. Another tale from the tube perhaps?!😉🤷🏾♂️😁
Little tidbit: Yes, they haven't electrified that section of the London - Aylesbury Line even after all these years. That means that Marylebone is the only London terminus to exclusively host diesel trains, as none of its other services run on electrified lines either.
Honestly, given its status as a major commuter line, I do wonder if there is value in electrifying that stretch of the line and reinstating the Met's service. It would render the NR service along the line fairly redundant I suppose, but still.
Great video!
Could nearby and parallel HS2 support complete Aylesbury electrification now ?
Also since the EWR appears to be going battery/intermittent-electric now for futureproofing EWR ? Then of course tying in Aylesbury with the EWR and upgrades.
...and so the reason that there is a water tower at Rickmansworth Station which was electrified a long time ago ... but the line beyond wasn't ...
Fun fact. The system that underground staff use to travel in and out of work outside of traffic hours still goes to Aylesbury 🙂
Did you know the Met added a Pullman Car to Aylesbury trains, to service posh commuters and late night theatre goers! 🧐
Jago,just think of how many of Edward Watkin's dreams,actually came true! The Chunnel should,at least,be called Watkin station,and since,like the Stephenson's,his interests were on the Continent,those areas bare looking into!! Yerkes wasn't the only person to have wide ranging interests,that long term,changed the planet! Thank you,for an interesting video,please,more of the same!! Thank you 😇 😊! P.S.,the Long Island has a rather extended reach,as the Southside Main,reaches Montauk[117 miles],and the North Side Main,reaches Greenport! Really close to the New York Metropolitan area!! MetroNorth is as bad,as it goes to Poughkeepsie! Anyway,keeps everyone on their toes! Thank you 😇 😊!
A celebratory banquet - now that's made me wonder when I'll next get an invite to one!
The London Underground serving Buckinghamshire, is nearly as odd as the London North Eastern Railway serving the Scottish west Highlands.
Thank you for this video, I've learned a lot! I just moved to Aylesbury and I was wondering if the Metropolitan could reach Aylesbury in the future. Honestly, it would be nice to have an alternative to Chiltern. Anyway, I would prefer buses operated later in Aylesbury and Buckinghamshire, as it's very hard to travel between towns (or if you live far from the Aylesbury station) once the night falls unless you go for expensive cabs!
It has long been my ambition to return the Metropolitan to Aylesbury. It could be done; even without the added electrification.
Have you thought of doing John Betjeman? Metroland and St
Pancras. You could do most of it from what you've already filmed.
His poems are still in copyright though, and that might be why you've not Betjemanned yet, and there's not a lot of poems directly related; but there are quotes. I think you might have already used this from 'Metroland':
'Send a postcard, for the homestead of your dreams, to 'Loudwater Estate', Chorley Wood.'
And the start of 'Middlesex' is right up your line.
'Gaily into Ruislip Gardens
Runs the red electric train,
With a thousand Ta's and Pardon's
Daintily alights Elaine;
Hurries down the concrete station
With a frown of concentration,
Out into the outskirt's edges
Where a few surviving hedges
Keep alive our lost Elysium - rural Middlesex again.'
Interesting - Every day is a school day with Jago - I knew that the Underground went to Chesham but didn't know about Aylesbury 🤔🚂🚂🚂
Another complicated subject that you didn't Aylesbury duck Jago
It'd be brilliant if it still went to Brill or linked up with the University Line and looped right round via Bletchley back to London.
Don't forget Verney Junction; not in my MET memory but only in my BR memory.
I live in aylesbury but my mum drives a train for the jubilee line so i have free travel with tfl, if the underground still went that far i could go to london for free whenever i wanted. Shame.
I understood that there were tentative plans to electrify to Aylesbury before the war and the trains were to terminate at the central platform, that no longer exists, at Kings Cross St Pancras. Does anybody know about those plans? After the end of Met Line trains from Aylesbury and it was diesel trains to Marylebone you did still occasionally set LT Pannier tanks on works trains north of Amersham.
8tph from Aylesbury to Baker St in the early 20th century, impressive!
7:48 - A little shunting engine of a type I’ve not seen before on British railways. Anyone have any details?
Aylesbury's depot shunter 01509 "Lesley". It's a military military-surplus Ruston & Horsby shuter built some time in the 1960s, and has been Aylesbury's depot shunter since 2010. The 01/5 classification is used for all small shunting engines that may from time to time need to venture onto network Rail tracks.
@@norbitonflyer5625 - Thank you for your prompt and detailed reply.👍
oh wow I didn’t even know that had occurred. Very great and informative video jago
Seeing an London Underground roundel in Aylebury
Just as the district railway/line used to run to Windsor over the GWR lines from Ealing Broadway via Slough
Noy quite the same. The District didn't own the track beyond Ealing Broadway - (it didn't even own the track between Ravenscourt Park, Turnham Green and Richmond)
I know but tubes still ran to Windsor. Had some agreement i suppose
@@MrCobo04 District trains ran to Windsor, and were also discontinued, long before any 'tube' line was built (and the District wasn't a 'tube' anyway, nor was the Metropolitan). So, no 'tube' trains ever went to Windsor...
@@CaseyJonesNumber1 as i mentioned the district railway. It also ran to Southend as well
@@MrCobo04I am replying to you saying that 'tubes still ran to Windsor', which they didn't - the 'tubes' hadn't been built, or even thought of at that time.
So, if I understand correctly: they wanted to build a line between Manchester and London, but it turned out to be ruinously expensive... and this happened in the 19th century?
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
Also as the new trains are longer, will they get round the bend ?. I got my doubts.
Brill! \m/
Didn’t the Met run out to Verney Junction via Quainton? I think it also ran the Brill branch from Quainton. I’m still reeling from the concept of EIGHT trains per hour!
I beileve in the original 1980's Crossrail plan one branch would have gone to Aylesbury (the other to Reading) with only a single line to the east, but that it was dropped when actually built to have the two branches to the east one via docklands to Abbey Wood and the other via Stratford to Shenfield. That would have got it electrified!
Correct. Aylesbury was not considered when we looked at route options for the revived Crossrail in 2001/2 because the SRA did not want the Chiltern franchise messed with. We looked at other second western routes but none was viable enough to make it into the Bill.
@ennett9687 And Heathrow makes a very useful second western terminal option anyway. Interesting point, if Aylesbury had been added to Crossrail, would that have just been the route via High Wycombe? If not, how would the trains have got across to the Met line through Harrow?
@@iankemp1131 Heathrow was in the 90s scheme, not counted as a branch in itself. The peak service proposed for the branches was at one point 12tph GW (8 Readings, 4 Heathrows) and 12tph Aylesbury (8 Aylesbury, 4 Chesham), though that balance would probably have had to change given demand) The connection to the Met was to be via new track on the north edge of Old Oak Common depot to the Dudding Hill line.
@@simonbennett9687 Thank you, very informative!
As an Aylesbury resident, the route to Marylebone via Amersham should be Overground
Metropolis to Metropolis sounds like a good reason to have a Metropolitan line.
So heres a question: The crash happened at 2am(ish) and was carrying passengers. Having missed trains at Euston (in my youth) and spent the night on the forecourt (with loads of others it has to be said) hardly any (if any) trains arrived or left. I'm not aware of any other London terminii being different. I did, however, catch a train from Sheffield at 01.35 which arrived at Manchester airport at around 4.30 (IIRC). SO... were night services more prevalent in the past or has it always been a rarity?
Certainly until the 1980s there were several overnight trains. Mainly for carrying mail or newspapers, but suually included a carriage or two. I often used the 2355 off Kings Cross, whiuch went to Leeds, changing at Retford in the wee small hours for another overnighter from Manchester to Grimsby. Not very fast, but who wants to get anywhere before 6am anyway?
Yes, it was fairly common to add a couple of passenger coaches to mail trains and some newspaper trains. The latter were often very fast, but only outward from London. One enthusiast actually recorded a number of runs on this very newspaper train in the 1920s and 1930s when using it regularly (one wonders why!). Night trains were also useful for crew returning home after a late turn, as in this case.
Hey Jago, can you do a video on the noise levels in the tube? Especially the screeching wheels on the Victoria line. Vauxhall to Pimlico is terrible - probably illegal!
In Metropolitan Line Had Rickmansworth And Chesham That near To Aylesbury, If you go to Chesham You take a bus to aylesbury,
Hi Jago, big fan of your videos! You mentioned Edward Watkin had interests in railways all around the world, does that include outside Europe? Either way, a video into his non-British interests would be very interesting
It’s a pity that the channel tunnel was built only 80,or so, years later…
Brilliant and informative video sir!
Hi, Jago , I have a question about the Piccadilly line that I have been wondering about since I was 3 years old . Why is there a what I call a stupid s bend between south ken and Knightsbridge stations ?. When I was a kid I thought the train would come off the tracks or get stuck. Is there a good reason? JH
It is commonly said that the S-bends are to fit under the streets, as buying the wayleave under buildings was more expensive, but if you look at the street pattern in the area you will see that it wouldn't have been necessary to have such tight bends. The reason is actually because the Piccadilly Line started out as three quite separate projects - the Great Northern and Strand, from Finsbury Park to Starnd (later renamed Aldwych); the Picadilly & Brompton, from Picadilly Circus to Brompton Road, near the V&A Museum; and the "Deep Level District" an express route from Hammersmith via South Kensington to Mansion House. Our friend Yerkes bought up all these unfinished projects (indeed, they had hardly been started) and stitched them together into one long line, with short extensions of the P&B at each end to connect to the other two, respectively at Holborn (leaving a stub to Aldwych which was eventually closed 85 years later) and at South Kensington. Because the Deep level District and Piccadilly & Brompton had originally been planned independently and followed two different, parallel, streets, the connection between them had to follow a tight S-bend to join up. The original DLD route was never built east of South Kensington , but the step-plate tunnel junctions where it would have gone straight on there can be seen at the east end of the eastbound platform and the west end of the west bound - and the separate levels of the two Picadilly platforms, and the extra westbound tunnel (now a circulation area) were all part of the plan for it to be a junction.
Are you likely to do a video of the Met lines to Verney Junction and Brill?
The Rail from Aylebury on Sunday stop at in Tube station in central London
The underground should extend further than London having the London zone, suburb zone and outer zone. This means more money for TFL. TFL can also make separate companies like: transport for Cardiff, transport for Manchester etc.
Great video though and I'm excited for more!
TfL doesn't make a profit. It is subsidised by the ratepayers of Greater London. Extending it further outside London than it already does would either require London ratepayers to pay to subsidise commuters from Herts, Bucks, Essex etc, or require residents of those counties to pay for it. Neither seem willing to do so (Essex does actiualy pay a bit towards the Central Line, which is why Epping is in the normal six fare zones, but there are extra zones for Herts and Bucks)
It was because neither London nor Herts were willing to pay for it that the Croxley-Watford Junction link was never built.
Anyway, before TfL start expanding outside Greater London, there are boroughs within south London, such as Bexley and Kingston, who have yet to see any rail services operated by TfL.
@@norbitonflyer5625 true lol
All-time opening line in this one