Juan, first of all my condolences to all that perished due to this flight. I flew a 421B Golden Eagle for a small coal company out of WV. Previously my twin experiences were with an Apache 235, an Aztec, a Navajo, some Barron time and some hours in the right seat of a King Air 300. I was a CFII and SEL and MEL. When I was hired to fly the Golden Eagle I did a lot of reading on this plane especially from pilots that published accounts of years of flying one. My owner sent me to school on it plus I had to be checked out by the insurance company pilot examiner before I was turned loose with it. As you know, it is the most complex light twin ever made as pilots need training in all of its systems. You need a high altitude sign-off plus knowledge of the pressurization system, the management of the fuel system which will have 5 or 6 tanks (only 5 if you have AC), as normally you have mains which on the 421B are the tip tanks, then the inboards, plus a locker tank which if full will pump into the other tanks. While operating in the inboards they will additionally pump fuel back into the tip tanks which you have to take off and land on. The other complication I are the engines, Cessna used geared engines to quiet the operation of the aircraft. The props turn slower than the engine which means the props are huge, like a 7’ diameter and you better get them feathered in an engine out scenario as the drag will limit any distance of flight single engine. Even the heating system is complicated. You can heat the aircraft of engine heat or if need be use the gasoline heater. W&B is tricky too and must absolutely be paid attention too. The nose will hold quite a lot but still all weight has to be on the money. I often weighed people and adjusted seating as need be. The engines are a handful and this is a hot rod of an airplane and will literally shoot you down the runway on take-off. There is even a one shot fire retardant system if the engines catch fire too. I was taught to hold full power on them until, I was at least 1500’ AGL before I pulled them back to 1900 rpm for a cruise climb. . The crankshaft has counter weights on them and even at idle where most twins might be at 1000rpm, with the 421 we kept it at 1200rpm. The reason to hold full power till 1500 AGL was if the engines were going to fail on take off it can happen as you pull power back and you want 1500 AGL to give you a chance to survive. Furthermore in a certain midrange rpm the harmonics are not good on these engines and you are not allowed to loiter there just move through it. I lost the left engine once descending out of 19,000’ at around 7000’ at 1700 rpm with a step down descent from ATC flying into Orangeburg, SC. Like a Jack rabbit on a date, quickly killed fuel, feathered the prop and went to zero manifold pressure. To feather the prop the lever must move to a lower notch which you have to slide the lever through. Next the tanks to the left engine were cut off too all the time you are right rudder and banking into the right engine. Have to admit once that critical engine prop is feathered this plane files beautifully. I few another 30 nm to Columbia CAE and landed without incident. Due to asymmetric force on final with full flaps you reduce the right engine power so you are almost in a glide on final to maintain centerline. When we inspected the engine there was a hole the size of a peach in the case by the jug. Either a spun bearing or rod failure. That engine had something like 1577 hours on it. They are only good for 1600 and we were getting ready for the TBO. My passengers and I were lucky to be alive but training had more to do with it than luck and as the saying goes stay calm and fly the airplane. The 421 aircraft are super great to fly, a real experienced pilot’s plane and a mechanic’s nightmare for sure. $30,000 is normal or more to keep it safe and airworthy for an annual. If you have the money, have a knowledgeable shop and mechanic plus the training and experience, you will love flying it. If not stay the hell away from this plane. If you must have a light twin consider a Navajo especially the refurbished ones now being privately rehabbed. The Navajo is not pressurized and not the fastest but it’s a reliable workhorse. Most of all if you don’t fly that often in your twin, hire an experienced pilot to fly with you. When things go south in a twin they happen in split seconds. Hey maybe those thinking of twin at least need to do some soul searching and honest assessments of your skills. Thanks Juan and hopefully will hear from you on what actually happened here. Blue skies!
great comment.. a lot of good accurate information on this plane.. and some great advice.. i can't agree more.. learning systems and knowing them from memory.. and like you said.. if you aren't operating these things frequently.. bring someone who does.. you can't just casually stay proficient on a complex beast like a 421. great story about your engine out situation too. great job handling that so efficient. being ready with appropriate action in a split second.. saves lives.. thanks for sharing..
@@texastyrannyresponseteam794 Thanks for your comment. I just wanted to share how really complex this plane is even though it’s a great bird to fly. The thing is if you are good in a little boat with an average outboard you certainly don’t belong in an unlimited hydroplane. One other item I left out was I always worked as a helper with our mechanic at annual time so this taught me a lot about the complexities of this plane. Even the alternator or starter installation is complicated, the oil change too. After all this experience my most fun flying was a Cessna 150 I restored with a full Garmin panel of a 430WAAS too. Flew it up and down the coast and did my mechanical work on it too as a helper if I could with my mechanic. That little bird is still flying after I sold it as a trainer in OH, N10518. We called it the Skygnat!
@@UncaDave great name for it.. Ive always assisted with annuals... I was helping as a kid on the family aircraft... Then my dad and I built a Glasair together... Come out the other side of that with alot of good experience... I'm still involved in maintanance/annuals/inspections today.. I wouldn't have it any other way.. I love learning as much as I can about each new aircraft as we moved up into bigger, more complex machines... I try to absorb as much of the information in the maintanance manuals as I can... A daunting task when the binders take up entire book shelves like the c90 books.. The main pc-12 manual is 8k pages.. At least they are digital now... Thanks for the comments..
News stations aren't specialists, they are generalists. You shouldn't be surprised. That's like being upset that your home handyman isn't a jet engine mechanic.
That was my old flight instructor Jackie Whitford. I'm shocked to be finding this out now. She was a great pilot and taught me everything I know today. Tragic.
It's got to be so frustrating knowing that you're trying to help, but there's only so much you can do besides constantly try to talk and help them through it, as long as able to work with you.
@@myoung48281 I don't feel like he's being mean. It's ATC, you've got to be to the point and direct, because people's lives are at stake, and you have to know what's going on just as much as you expect other pilots to know what's going on. He also had no way of knowing the pilot was struggling until the pilot announced he was having control issues. Until that point, he had no way of knowing and for all he knew, was dealing with someone who was either inexperienced or just not paying attention, both of which can be dangerous.
I fly out of TTD, and my in-laws saw the plane at about 200-300 feet over the two lakes just to the west, then messaged me within a minute of hearing the explosion. A lot of people saw it, and I think some more details will come out. Something interesting: If you compare the Cessna 150 with the 421 ADSB track, it looks like they ALMOST collided over the Columbia River. If the ADSB is correct, the 150 had to take evasive action. Also, just on the south east corner of the pattern, there is a 700-800 foot bluff that rises out of the terrain, a 421 would normally do a pattern on the north side of the field, and this is often done for standard single engines as well. I may be wrong, but I think the 421 had a flight plan filed to someplace in New Mexico, but I can't find it now. The controller seems to have done an OK job here. He has been around for 2+ years now, and can often sound like he is flustered when dealing with more than two aircraft at a time, but I've never experienced him having any real issues. I don't understand why he didn't make it clear that he was doing a test flight, or why he would have a passenger during a test flight. I can't say that I know the plane, I don't think it is really from here, but I may have seen it on the ramp yesterday. Also, the 1200' limitations on altitude is usually only when they are landing from the east at PDX. Traffic often flies into PDX at around 3000' from just outside of TTD Class D, so spacing is sometimes tight, and wake turbulence can be a thing. So the official traffic pattern alt is 1000', but when you depart to the north or south, you are told to stay at or below 1200' till 3 miles out. Going east, they don't give you that restriction. RIP, and I'm glad there were so few casualties on the ground, it could have been much worse.
I believe you have this controller confused with our other one. I’m pretty sure this is our new controller that is the replacement for the guy who left. Ive done all my training at troutdale and fly there regularly and I’ve only started hearing his voice within the last few months. Every time I fly with this controller there is some issue. Never major but still nonetheless. Calling my 152 a Mooney and using the wrong tail number with it, saying my VFR request is a lot of information and I’m speaking too fast, not recognizing common landmarks for initial call up (tower hill), etc.
@@lemion4521 Makes total sense..and with all due respect .......towards the end, the controller seemed overwhelmed as he called signed the 421 as "Golf Bravo" vs his call sign "Golf Papa"......☮🙏💫
I was working the line at an uncontrolled airport around 2006, when a 421 departed south on a sunny but bitter cold day. Minutes later, center called and said he was in trouble and returning to the airport. His good landing gave no indication of trouble until he taxied up to the FBO. His wind shield had blown out and covered him in glass and sub zero wind. He was cut slightly and glasses protected his eyes but the amazing thing was his ability to navigate back to the ground without incident. We never found out or either I don't remember the subsequent details but at the time I thought this was some great pilot skill.
Thank you for the reports. We as neighbors are still trying to get all the information. Yes, sadly we lost our neighbor who's home was hit, the other neighbors got out. It was terrifying . Please send prayers to the family who lost Loved one's & the families being displaced due to this accident.
I was in the campground next to where this accident happened. The engines sounded healtly going by, it was definitely spinning some rpm. I was laying down thinking it was odd you never hear propeller planes in this area. It's normally just jets going in and out of pdx, and no faster than having that thought heard the explosion and shook the camper pretty good.
@Shaden992 I used to live there! And you’re right, other than the ANG fighter jets taking off from PDX, it was rare to hear any air traffic. Very sad. But fortunate that it wasn’t a bone-dry tinderbox if that happened just beyond the railroad tracks.
They took off from troutdale airport an airport that specializes in these type of planes. They crashed near the airport after takeoff. PDX is the big airport with commercial jets.
@Plutogalaxy you are correct, but I'm not sure if it's due to the heavy commercial traffic in/out of pdx or what but it is very rare to hear a small aircraft fly that close to the rv park. Or maybe it stood out because you never hear a plane fly THAT close in general.
It's saddening and sobering to hear the words of a man, and a women, who's lives are about to end. My condolences to those left behind. Of the passenger and the loved ones of the victim on the ground. RIP
sadly agree, watch those aircraft investagations programes and always wondered what hearing the peoples talking before the crash was like, very sad indeed
This was less than a mile from my house. I felt the impact - it woke me up and when I went outside I saw the column of smoke raising up. Crazy and so sad for the people who passed away.
Troutdale airport is very close to PDX, just a few miles east. More than sixty years ago, a United DC-8 bound for Portland landed at Troutdale by mistake. It was a big project to get it out again, given the short Troutdale runways.
Although I am retired now, I flew All over the Northwest. I once was in the mechanics off of Shasta and my airplane was getting beat up. Making no progress and burning fuel. Pitch Black at 10,000 ft. I heard another pilot go down and ATC calling to switch to 121.5 And saying I guess all we can do is send out search and rescue. I can't imagine what ATC goes through and this controller did well in spite of the circumstances. Very well. No one could have done any better❤❤❤
I live in that neighborhood, and the plane flew right over my house before it hit the power lines. I was just about to take my dog outside for our morning walk, and I heard the pilot throttle up the engines, thinking to myself that it sounded way too close and loud. A split second later were the three explosions as it hit two sets of power lines and then the house. I'm not a pilot, but I have always had an interest in aviation. I suspect that he throttled up when he realized he was lower than the powerlines, hoping he'd make it over them. The man who lost his wife is a friend of mine, and I can't imagine the grief he is feeling right now. This crash has shaken the neighborhood in more ways than one. RIP to all who lost their lives.
That’s tough to listen to. Once I did a test flight on a 421 for a mechanic and the aileron trim was rigged backwards. I should have checked the movement of the trim but I only checked the flight controls. I almost panicked after takeoff when it kept turning the wrong way. I stopped myself and tried the other direction. It fixed it. I brought it back and wrote it up for the mechanic. He turned white and apologized. He said that when he put it back together he wasn’t sure he had the cable on the right side of the pulley. I was lucky that day. I was also a professional pilot that had 10,000 hours and flew every day.
@@danikadahl2824 It could be. It’s interesting that they made it to 1700’ without rolling in immediately after takeoff. That suggests that it wasn’t an engine failure. Juan eluded to that as well. It’s had to speculate but it will sure be interesting
As a long time subscriber, I started following you when you were recovering from your ailment. Those were undoubtedly the good old days when we could enjoy our activities, flying, motorcycling and just having a pretty good idea what our tomorrows would be. Then came the Oroville spillway disaster followed barely settled and then by the pandemic and the mass of jumbled information from left, right and center. We enjoyed a respite for a short time until the fire disasters, one after the other. And seemingly the aircraft crashes, one after the other, large and small without much of a break between them. You have maintained a very consistent levelheaded reporting of these, which are much appreciated. It must be hard to maintain a calm demeanor while giving your followers an excellent report on these endless disasters. Thank you Juan for your public service.
Whats amazing to me is that these major California disasters (and some of the plane crashes) happened just a short distance from Juan's house in Grass Valley. So he knew firsthand about the local details that most news outlets had no information on. He's doing a great job in reporting on all of these incidents.
@@georgespalding7640 I agree about most locations. But this incident is up North, on the Oregon/Washington border. The Troutdale Airport is up the Columbia River, due East of PDX, the International Airport for Portland, OR. There are some lakes along the shore of the Columbia. There is a video of the fire, from a boat on one of those lakes, looking across the water. Most other videos are from the city streets. Some comments mentioned that the engines and the explosion could be heard from the nearby campground. These townhomes are at the edge of a neighborhood. On maps, you can see I-84 running E-W, parallel to the airport runways that are closer to the river. 😔
@@georgespalding7640 I am a native to Northern California and everything worthwhile happens in that area, except, of course, the acts of our state government! The only fun thing that happens in the southern part is car chases!
@@desertdenizen6428 Southern California has its perks. But I know what you mean. Northern California offers a lifetime of joy if you are an outdoors person and like road trips, great hikes, great natural parks, great photography and the fascinating history of California. And by the way, I was born in Marysville just 20 miles from Grass Valley.
This crash was in my neck of the woods, and occurred VERY close to the home of a good friend. She lives just across a field from the site. Their home shook so hard she thought a bomb exploded- and she is not easily rattled! The plane entered one condo and plowed straight thru to a second unit. The ensuing fire and firefighting response was a sight to behold in this small town! Experienced pilots in the area said the plane absolutely sounded “wrong” and expressed concern that it wasn’t gonna make it… This is a tiny airport and the incident has rocked this community. They’re used to hearing planes, but this has several people seriously considering moving… Condolences to all who lost family or friends🙏. PS Juan your name was all over Reddit right after this occurred! And of course I had immediately told my friend that you would be posting the best info asap! 😊
I listened to the conversations about this incident on VAS earlier tonight. You can tell that the pilot is overwhelmed with what is going on. Very obvious he's struggling. In fact he let out a big sigh, and I told myself when I heard that that he probably knew at that time what was going to happen and had just resigned himself to the fact that that was it. A woman came on the radio talking to the tower I don't know if that was wife daughter friend or who. Very sad RIP and condolences to the families.
I work in an MRO as a maintainer. We serve just about any make, but we specialize in Cessna, Cirrus and Beech. We've got a 421C that we see regularly and I can confirm that they are a maintenance nightmare. Any time that thing comes in for annual, it ends up with a discrepancy list 3-4 pages deep. They're extremely high performance aircraft and they just absolutely shake themselves to pieces. They're subject to a laundry list of AD's and service bulletins and are, indeed, extremely expensive to operate and maintain. Stands to reason it may have been down for extensive repairs or upgrades. Be curious to see what the investigation pegs as the cause.
Thanks for getting a report out quickly. My daughter lives a few miles from there. So awful to listen to those transmissions. Feel so bad for ALL involved.
Very little information from local authorities on this crash. I knew Juan would put out a LOT more details. Much appreciated. Condolences to the families of those lost and all affected by this horrible and sad tragedy, including those just made homeless.
I owned and flew a twin Cessna like this for 10 years. They are a lot to handle when things go bad. For the proficient, trained and prepared pilot they are fine, but if those criteria aren't met, it's a serious challenge. RIP.
I've never flown into Troutdale, but I've passed the airport many times as a truck driver: there's a pretty good sized helicopter flight school there - that's who the controller was talking to, when he told other aircraft to "take a 30 or so minute break at the fbo".
@@smesui1799 I'm not sure I'd call ATC an "easy" paycheck even in the best of times. It sounds like one of the more stressful jobs one can have this side of going into firefights.
Our family owned a 421B, 1975 manufactured Golden Eagle. It was a lot of airplane to fly. You really had to be experienced at these strong twins and know how to handle them when things go south. Maintenance years ago was 50,000 bucks a year to keep everything cherry and tip top. It's no toy it's the real thing
This one sounded like one of those events that started before they began to taxi. Coms problems, no plan, a lot of confusion on the radio as to what they were doing.
That should have been their cue to return for a radio fix, did they do a flight control check or did something fail after t/o, test flt after maint big red flag to go over with a fine tooth comb! R.I.P to the crew 🙏
Man I have been a pilot and aircraft mechanic for 38 years and I have never really liked the 421 and 414. Its really a two pilot airplane, I have lost a few friends to two separate 421 accidents, and they were great pilots with many years of flying under thier belt. Not to mention loosing an engine on take off is a death sentence. Its a beautiful aircraft all dolled up. If your thinking about purchasing a 421 or 414 "Don't " your better off with a 340, 310, or a 303 if you want to stick with Cessna. That is my thoughts and my experience with the 421 and 414, 406. Take care Brother. Hawk out!!
310 is a completely different aircraft in capability and mission set. You’re not going to sell someone on a 4 seat light twin that needs a 7 seat, pressurized, FIKI, cabin-class twin with onboard radar. If you can’t handle a 421 solo you probably shouldn’t have a multi license.
My grandfather owned a 414 and 421 for years. Actually he owned both of them at the same time along with a 340, 172 and 182. His aircraft were very cared for and always went to the maintenance shop and then test flown a week before any trip whether it was needed or not. We took a lot of trips in them as well. He constantly practiced his emergency procedures with each of his aircraft and I had been with him on engine failure takeoff and landing practices among others. He instilled in me from a very young age to constantly practice your skill and to never feel like you know it all or ever get too comfortable especially when it came to flying airplanes. He flew during WW2 and was one of if not the best pilot I’ve ever flown with and he learned to fly at 10 years old in an old bi-plane. I never touched the controls of a single engine aircraft until I was 19 but I’d had flown plenty of twins by that point.
It shouldn’t need two pilots, but rather one who is physically capable because the controls are quite heavy, especially after an engine failure. Speaking from experience in B and C models, the single engine rudder force required is significant. Stepping on the ball is most important requirement since it has 375 hp which is 100 higher than the average continental engine which makes for a lot of differential power.
The problem is recency. Flying isn't easy. I've got 21k hours. Mostly airline, but also single pilot twins. People think it's like driving a car, but airline pilots joke with each other during preflight briefings all the time "I've been on a two week vacation and can't remember how to fly, please keep an eye out and save me from myself if I'm entirely lost." Every joke has some truth to it. Low time, rarely flying, single pilot, any airplane. Not a good combo. Fast and slippery planes are worse. Half of all the GA accidents are exactly for this reason, and most of the other half is people who make unfortunate and unprofessional choices. Flying into ice, clouds, at night, with broken equipment, etc etc. I tell people all the time "Have a look at professional aviation operating rules and procedures, and apply them to your Part 91 flying and you've already moved the needle 80%." This includes maintenance, flight time limitations, recency training, etc etc. Each rule written in blood, and should be paid attention to even if not legally applicable.
I’m out of TTD. When PDX is landing on the 28’s and the TTD tower is in operation all south bound departures are limited to 1200’ to stay under the ILS PDX approach’s. The aircraft had been sitting at one of the repair shops for some time as the aircraft had lots of maintenance issues.
Yes, it’s kind of unfortunate that PDX obstructs the path, I think troutdale airport could be better if the port of Portland didn’t own it and they stopped trying to shut down the airport or make the runway smaller.
it's one thing for us pilots to be killing ourselves in small planes but when people on the ground start dying it's going to be curtains for general aviation
I live a mile off the end of an GA airport runway. When we purchased our house, there was a statement in the home's title that basically said we knew we lived in an airport flight path. Anybody complaining about airports, living near airports, needs to have their head examined.
@@huh4233 Just because you agreed to a danger doesn't mean we should ignore it. You agree to traffic fatalities whenever you drive, heart health issues with greasy foods, diabetes with soft drinks, etc. These are bad outcomes we should be trying to prevent. Perhaps airports and zoning need a bit of reform for public safety. I was recently in San Diego and saw half a dozen small GA planes do a few low altitude circles around a theme park full of children. Stuff like that makes me think these pilots have a screw loose, because if they had a mechanical issue there's a good chance of pedestrian fatalities.
imagine being about 200 feet away as it flew by... i can still hear it in my head. it crashed 277 yards from my RV. i thought that the train derailed for a second.
A small fleet of 421's was the first aircraft I ever maintained after I got my A&P in 85. The geared engines always had short TBO's and compared to a Baron or Bonanza they were always in the shop with maintenance squawks.
I worked at a Piper dealership. Test flights after some maintenance not all, were part of routine. Test pilot and the mechanic would fly. Been on many test flights. I can’t even guess on this one!
I am not a pilot, but I do fly commercially 3-4 times a year. This was an excellent presentation and very informative. I hope pilots and those contemplating purchase of private planes will follow the professional advice presented here!
I watched this when it came out but didn't realize I knew the instructor until now. So very sad, Jackie was great to fly with. My deepest condolences to her family and friends.
When I worked in GA I would often be invited to go on 'test flights' as dead weight, Being younger I didn't understand the risk involved especially if this flight was after major maintenance or repair. We always flew the circuit and maybe these styles of crashes are a huge reminder that living under the circuit flightpath is risky business.
This plane crashed one block from me. At first we thought it was an earthquake, all our windows and doors shook then we saw huge black smoke rising. I feel so bad for those that lost their lives but it could have been much worse because it was a Saturday morning when most people are home.
I'm a couple miles west of you. Sorry about your lost neighbor and the local damage. I'm glad the fire fighter brigades all rose to the occasion and got it under control quite quickly. When the crash happened I was in the Albertsons at 181st/Glisan. The power went out, and when I got outside I could see the fire.
So sad and frightening. I live less that 5 miles from the crash site and of course heard all about it. Out power flickered several times at the time of impact, of course we didn't know why at the time. Very sad to lose a person on the ground, just sitting in their house enjoying life. Very sobering. I appreciate the video and information provided.
Tragic. Sounded like he was distracted even when he was taxiing. My speculation: Something other than First Principles had this pilot's attention -- perhaps a known mechanical issue -- and he allowed it to consume most of his attention.
@@mikemicksun6469 Yes, the issue where he couldn't put attention on holding his mic button down during comms is telling. This one is surely to be talked about for awhile, I'd imagine.
Heartbreaking to hear this... I've flown in/out of Troutdale. It's a small airport right on the Columbia and the airspace is pretty tight with PDX. My heart goes out to the families of the lives lost.
I was about 5 miles away and saw the mushroom cloud go up. Unfortunately he took out a 230kV line on his way down and may have made it back if he hadnt have clipped those. Cause a huge outage and power issues across the metro area. There were still traffic lights out at 1700 local in SE Portland.
Man that was tough to listen to. Sounded very confused and behind the plane, must of had his hands full. Great job reporting as always. Thank you Juan. Prayers to those who lost their lives and loved ones.
Airplane went through major annual maintenance for a longer period of time always makes me nervous, especially with many parts repaired or replaced. R.I.P😥
I flew at Troutdale for the Cessna FBO/shop for a couple years in mid-seventies. When the shop needed a test flight, they'd call ops and whoever was available and rated (and needed the money - $5/flight hour doesn't go far) could take the flight. We had a rule that if the mechanic wouldn't come along, we wouldn't go. There was little if any checkout in whatever plane had to be flown, just be ASEL or AMEL as appropriate, and a chat with the shop about the work to be "tested."
@@kevinthree a civilian, as in not a pilot or passenger on the general aviation airplane that crashed. It was not an insult nor derogatory. It's an actual term.
From my experience as a 182 owner in Tucson. Maintenance competency for today’s GA aircraft sucks. My ready to fly after maintenance was lost. And when found, the interior was still in pieces. This was by the certified repair station at KAVQ. An IA friend who quit this FBO said it was run like a lawnmower shop.
I quit my old shop for very similar reasons and more. Went corporate aircraft and it’s great…actually get time to do it right without being insanely stressed. On my exit interview the owner was “ok with alternative methods” to the maintenance manual….and im not talking reasonable methods. Repair station doesn’t always mean anything, that old shop I left wanted no actual RS procedures, but everything is good on paper and that’s all the FAA has checked in the last 3-4 years I was there. Basically acted like a part 65 (on your own ticket) shop versus pt 145.
This is why I work as an independent I.A. The last shop I worked for nearly cost everybody their certificates. I don't know how many times I've been called to set up Continental fuel injection systems after some guys at some shop got everything screwed up. The only people who can afford to start up and pay for a genav shop are these guys with huge military and airline retirement accounts. They usually know NOTHING about piston airplanes, yet they somehow crashed an I.A. course and got the ticket. The most inept I.A. I ever knew always bragged about how it took him 20 minutes to complete the I.A. test and he got a 100 on it. Another thing that just kills the business is cheap owners. I do mobile maintenance. If some guy calls me wanting me to come out to his hangar and do an Annual on a 414, I know he's a cheap-ass. I just tell them that I don't work on twins, they are too much to deal with working out of my truck. They need to go to a well equipped shop with at least two mechanics, an I.A., and a parts guy in order to comprehensively perform such an annual in a timely fashion. Such a job would take me a few weeks.
It's the same for airliners at big MRO facilities. Lots of youths with no A&P licenses-- God alone knows their work ethic, or those of their Quality folks.
Well, you get what you pay for. I've had to deal with pretty cheap pilots and operators throughout my career. I always said that the pilot needs to be on the same level of professionalism and ethical behavior as I am before I'll lay a hand on his or her aircraft...and no, I'm not installing that radio you bought on eBay.
Thanks Juan Browne. I saw and heard this earlier. Pure desperation before it got off the ground. I worked with a fellow who owned on of these back in the late seventies. High maintenance for certain. It will be interesting to study the history surrounding this crash. Not only the flyers but the innocent victim on the ground.
I live about 1,200 feet from the crash site in Fairview OR. I felt the impact, like a minor earthquake, and it shook my home. There is about 5 high voltage power lines shut off and cut by the plane. They are in the 33,000 to 225,000 volt range. So about 45 to 65 feet above the ground. There is a swamping grass area under the power lines in this area, possibly a good place to set down, but they might not have seen the power lines, and crashed into them, then flipped into the condo building that is at about 50 feet higher elevation. 4 condo buildings caught fire, and one person on the ground died. Her husband went to Costco, and she wanted to sleep in. My friend's daughter lived in one of the condo's that caught fire, they where at Church. I am happy that I found this very useful information. Seems like the pilot did not know the VFR altitude restrictions for Troutdale Airport. We are about 10 miles east of PDX - Portland International Airport. I see large planes in the landing pattern all of the time, and take off when there is eastbound winds. Most of the time, about 80% is winds from the west, so I see the landing planes, not frequent planes taking off. The winds today where less than 5 MPH. What my neighbors said is that it seems like the airplane had lost power. So 2 engine failure?
I know such construction is normal in USA but I've never liked the idea of wooden houses. I heard that a wood house can be destroyed by fire in one hour, compared to four hours for a brick built house.
Thank you for the info. I feel for the families and hope there's a way to help. I live nearby but was way out by the Portland airport when it hit. The building lights out there actually dimmed at the time of the crash.
The ADS-B data does suggest they were going down fast, which might suggest the pilot was absorbed by problem solving and forgot to fly the aircraft. I hate to have to say it but the second voice on the radio from the accident aircraft sounded more like a kid to me than a female.
I was waiting on your report, Juan. I was going to email you the news link but didn't know if you were working this weekend. Very sad situation. Our plane spotting crew was setting up to stream from Portland at the time of this crash. Condolences to the families of the victims.
I saw this pop up on my scanner app today, it alerts you when a whole bunch of people are listening to one specific area and says what the issue is, “plane crash into occupied neighborhood with large post crash fire” . Condolences to the victims and their families, especially the person on the ground who hopefully had no idea what hit them. I’m surprised to see this so quickly! You’re on it @blancolorio!
Robin_Sage, The fire was not really all that large. It was restricted to only 4 condo's in a complex. I don't know if they had fire sprinklers, but that is possible. Yes it could have been much worse. There where down 225,000 volt power lines, so some grass in a very wet field was burned, less than about 200 square feet. My friend's condo was burned, and her neighbor was sleeping in while her husband went to Costco. My friends where at Church, so un-harmed. I live about 1,200 feet from the plane crash site, and there are power company trucks out there tonight replacing the down power lines at 11 pm, 8-31-24. The grass fire is about 200 feet from the nearest house where I live, but about 800 feet from my home. The column of smoke was always less than 80 feet in diameter, so a small fire. The fire trucks arrived within 4 minutes. Nearby Portland sent over a ladder truck, with a 105' tall ladder. The ladder truck arrived within 15 minutes. The fire was out within 30 minutes.
Condolences to all affected. Although no flight should ever be considered routine, test flights carry a much higher risk because of the very nature of the flight and the unknowns.
@@alreaud You are correct. I suspect it was a mx person or a pilot. Sadly, something went terribly wrong. My experience is all Part 121 and military. Every Part 121 airline and FAA strictly prohibit non-mx personnel on test flights. I'm not sure what FAA allows on GA or Part 135 mx test flights. I can't imagine any test flight carrying a person not somehow associated with the work that was accomplished. I've never seen it.
Then there was that local guy who was over in Czech Republic test flying an AN2 before buying it. The instructor/salesman was Polish and could speak German, and the mechanic was German and could speak English. Three man cockpit crew! All "essential"! Interesting flying lesson.
I accumulated many hours years ago in the C421 flying for a charter company. The airplane is an absolute pleasure to fly, but when things go wrong ( I've had two engine issues, not failures ) it can become quite a handful to fly, very fast. It's definitely not a forgiving airplane during emergency operations. ........... My condolences to the families and friends of the perished victims.
It sounds like a small thing, but I think the controller was right...he was letting off the mic button too soon. When I started my private pilot training, if I got nervous I would either hold the mic button down for too long, or not long enough. I kicked that habit until I started instrument training and the nerves came back because the workload was overwhelming at times. I'm definitely not qualified to say that this was pilot error, BUT the pilot sounded uncomfortable with the aircraft from the get go. I think the mic thing was a bit of a telltale sign. Condolences to all of the families of the victims.
It’s called transmission clipping. Can be pilot error or I suspect in this case a dodgy PTT switch seeing how the airplane hadn’t flown in a while. If this pilot was qualified to carry out a test flight in a high performance twin then he should have been more than competent using the transmit button.
I wondered if the sun was involved as the power also went out in that area. It’s been causing radio black outs with small flares. X-class level aurora despite M-class flares. 2 planes in 2 months too? Odd. Not very sigma-6 at all.
I don't like to speculate, but that's all we can do before we know all the facts. My gut instinct is: this guy had or came into some money, bought a nice, powerful twin and didn't spend the time and money to learn to pilot it well enough to be safe flying it. A pure mechanical failure strikes me as less likely than the majority being attributable to pilot-error or inexperience. The radio comms and the flight-data seem in-line with what you'd expect to see if an under-trained pilot took off before realizing that he'd bitten off more than he could handle. Even on his complete transmission on the ground: he re-keyed the radio to recite his tail-number. It just doesn't fill me with tremendous amounts of confidence. You'd expected him to have made a call to report something if it was weight and balance or a control surface giving him problems. It appears that the plane was reasonably controllable - he just doesn't appear to have ever been in control of it.
@@dks13827 Technically, NTSB will often take up to 2 years to release an official incident report. Juan will give us a brief summary video like this if enough information is publicly available. The fire and debris field will hamper the investigation for cause.
@@Sashazur During a live feed chat on another channel, some people lost power over in North Portland, also. I wonder if the unexpected shock to the system over in the East had a domino effect in some of the other grids for a bit?
@@Sashazur I was adjacent to where the crash was, within sight of the townhomes just around the corner from me, and lights flickered a lot. The boom was so loud the house shook and I thought someone had rammed a truck into it. Scary stuff. I feel so awful for the person in the townhomes that died and those in the plane. From neightbors closer to it, they hit a line in the marsh area between our residential areas when they clipped a tower and FD had to come in and put out brushfire from live line.
From Troutdale, I agree. Even Pulse Point(emergency service app) didn't disclose why an extreme amount of units were on scene. Saw the smoke on our way west on Halsey. Appears the plane made a pass right over our house 😮
Listening to the ATC transmissions it sounded like there was confusion onboard the Cessna before the flight and especially after they were airborne. I have friends that live in the adjacent city of Gresham. The crash site wasn’t far from their home. Condolences to the families of those who were lost.
@idanceforpennies281 there's just not a lot of room for error. You've got to get it coordinated, get the power in on the good engine, feather the bad engine, and nail your climb speed and hope it's enough to actually allow you to climb. Speed too slow and you sink (and maybe spin), too fast and you sink. Speed just right and if you're lucky it'll climb. Just a lot of control manipulation in a very short amount of time and can be physically demanding as well.
@@rocketman374 This plane needs a lot of training/ experience for pilotage. There's nothing "wrong" with the plane; as Juan says, you just need to know it. Like you do.
Agreed, great airplane if you're current and proficient, but it's a handful single pilot if something goes wrong. Marginal on one engine, you've got to get it right, no room for error.
The shop that serviced that plane services mine and they are meticulous. I've been a pilot for 36 years, owned several planes, and give the owner five stars for the quality of his work and depth of knowledge. I saw that twin in their hangar for at least a couple of years and thought, "Whoever owns that beast better know what they're doing." It looked like a baby King Air and seemed suited for someone with lots of experience and a highly professional attitude. On the face of it, this terrible accidents seems like it could have been avoided.
May or may not be relevant, but just a little over 40 years ago Cessna started two test programs for cruciform tail versions of the 421 and the 414. On both models, the horizontal tail was relocated from the fuselage to the vertical tail. Unfortunately, both programs got scrubbed due to the company's financial troubles during the down market at that time. This is just some information for thought and does not necessarily have a single thing to do with what caused this crash.
This is a very sad event. I live just a few miles away, and this is the first I have heard about the. I grew up in Northern Virginia, and I remember a similar tragedy involving a small twin-engined aircraft in the town where I lived. I believe it was a ferry pilot who was taking the aircraft from Dulles Airport to wherever the new owner of the plane was located. He experienced engine trouble and tried to make an emergency landing on a golf course in a heavy fog. He ended up ramming into the end house on a set of townhouses. The impact and fire killed the pilot and the couple that lived there. Their daughter was at school (the school that was at, probably), and it was unusual that they were not at work that day. Bad luck. The man in the next house in the row was sitting on his couch when the engines came through the wall on either side of him. He survived.
The ATC guy is also new to the job, at least at this airport. Hes often rude and makes mistakes but its a hard job. I often tell myself that when he gets rude with me for no reason. He didnt mess up here but his attitude wasnt helping anyone. Hopefully he'll be more patient going forward. When an ATC is being rude and pushy it adds another level of stress and distraction
At firstt the pillot didn't indicatted that he was having problems flying the plane. That itself would frustrate any ATC when you are in their Air space and it's busy
Having watched/listened to a number of these now over the years and, well, being a human with life experience, this controller did not sound pleasant to deal with, especially in an emergency. I get it’s a hard job, but you sign up for this. Be kind to the pilots, even the ones that frustrate you. I feel for the families of the souls on board.
agree - he sounds like a dick but in his defense the pilot was not doing a good job of communicating, which is 50% of the pilot's responsibility in relation to ATC (the other being to do what you have agreed on). From the problems with the radios to lack of clarity with intentions to changing plans to busting airspace, I would say the tower had plenty of reason to be frustrated. as is usually the case, there's two sides to this. guarantee that controller feels like shit right now ...
Incorporating in Delaware has no tax advantage, as Corporations are subject to taxation in the States they are located in and doing business in. The purpose of incorporating in Delaware is that the identities of the directors are not made available in the public records. A servicing agent of a Delaware Corporation must be named in the public records, ,but no others.
I owned and run a 421C for over 5 years and my Maintenance and Annuals ran $60,000 plus a year - that kept it in first class SAFE flight Condition. They are lovely to fly, the issues folks have is always related to inadequate training and cheaping out on what is very expensive maintenance…🙏🌏
A lot of 400 series owners try to maintain them on an unrealistic budget. These aircraft require very knowledgeable mechanics, a realistic budget, competent pilot and quality training. Anything less will result in tears.
There's a very busy heli school, HAA at the SE corner. They have at least a dozen R22s and four or more R44s. The tower has been understaffed, they literally close for lunch break (45 mins) and turn into an E. It's also interesting 421GP wasn't sending ADSB data, only TIS-B echos, rebroadcast from the PDX radar. Also note they filed an IFR flight plan for 10:50 (crash was 10:20), so I think they were going to pick it up in the air. It was TTD-SGU, so I bet the plane was FULL of fuel. I didn't know why he was so stressed when I came in a few dozen minutes later.
I just posted a rambling rant regarding the controller did not do anyone any favors...seemed he was overloaded...not his fault but certainly sounded like that...and the issues with increased airspeed, loss of altitude and maintaining constant bank angle until impact seems to have happened right after Tower barked, "NOW"...instructing pilot to decrease altitude....strange one indeed
@@johnthomson3248 False, KPDX is not (nor could be) reserved for "commercial airliners". In fact, had our pilot asked for a squawk code and coordination with PDX for a hop over to there it could have been easily arranged. All it takes for any aircraft to enter Class C is two-way radio comm, and unlike Class B (LAX size airpots) specific spoken clearance into the airspace is not required (but you must be talking to the Class C controllers). Now, landing at PDX (and most other Class C and B airports) is prohibitive because of cost which is why "outlier" airports are favored, easier and more economical to use. But a Cessna 150 could legally land at LAX, but you better bring your VISA card.
Thanks for an informative video. I watched yesterday's local press conference and you provided a lot of information that they didn't. Commercial flights do fly that area when the prevailing winds at PDX are westerly. And, that little V at the bottom right of the Portland control area is where we used to live.
I saw the videos that Jimmy from Jimmy's World posted about the 421 he just acquired. The list of repair items just to get it to the first test flight was about 10 feet long. He wisely had the twin Cessna shop complete the test flight, and of course, it wasn't 100% ready to go even after that. Like you mentioned, it takes a large amount of money, and, more importantly, a large amount of proficiency to safely operate these complex twins.
It looks like the N421's are a money pit. I wonder who's paying for all the repairs. On Jimmy's World he flipped the navigation computer from a 310. His last video shows him working on the magnetoes. VMC?
It's not an airplane for the complacent or the lazy or the tired, and recurrent training is a must. With those large props with centerlines so far out from the CG you have to be real quick when an engine quits. Like muscle memory and strict checklist running, and forget about comfort or altitude. Speed kills.
I sincerely worry that we will hear his name on this channel before long. Buying and "restoring" old planes is good for views, but inherently not a terribly prudent thing to do unless you are very careful.
Jason on Rebuild Rescue is working on just such an aircraft, and I pray that he will watch your reviews and contemplate everything he is doing to make that machine as airworthy as possible.
As someone who lives near a small airport with planes constantly flying directly over my neighborhood, the prospect of a plane crashing into my house always worries me.
My first test flight as an A&P/avionics tech was on a 421C. Did a full install of a Garmin G600TXi and GFC600 autopilot. I feel for the folks who were in this aircraft…it’s heartbreaking.
Years ago I flew a piper Arrow 4 with an autopilot that had been placarded INOP. Unfortunately, the maintenance dept did not pull POWER from the unit, just put the sticker on it. the control head was near my left knee as I was flying, and at some point i must have bumped it and activated it. My CFII and I had no idea what the heck was wrong with the plane, never suspected the autopilot since placarded INOP means power disconnected, or is supposed to. Took two of us to fight the malfunctioning autopilot but we landed it safely and figured out what happened after the control issues persisted on the ground clear of the runway, but disappeared when we turned off the master. Given the radio issues on the 421C.. I'm wondering now if something similar happened here; an electrical fault in the avionics causing a runaway autopilot, single pilot not able to diagnose and find/pull the CB in time, and lost control of the aircraft? Just a guess at this point but I can see it being plausible. Thanks for the video, Juan, very curious to see what the NTSB finds on this one.
Saw the news yesterday, as someone who flies out of TTD this hits home. I flew today and heard some conversations speculating on the cause or what could have led to the crash. Like others have said, the accident aircraft wasn't one that was recognized around the airport so I wonder if it had flown in to get mx or repairs done. When I'm in a 172 or 152 I'm at 1000 feet for the pattern, definitely not 1700. This aircraft's downwind looks really wide too, that stuck out to me.
Thanks for a good report. I noticed there was a lot of confusion early on. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, maybe they should have waited for a better time to fly? Condolences to family and friends. RIP.
Some poor resident in own home killed because of this, as well as all the families that lost their home. It will be interesting to see what mx was done, and by whom
Yea, very sad. That resident probably didn't even know what was happening with the ever increasing sound of the airplane as it approached his home and just sudden explosion of everything around him. You're not safe in your own home, minding your own business. Maybe there needs to be a 3-mile exclusion zone for residential and non aviation related commercial properties around airports. Yes, I know, good luck with that.
There have been a couple of post-MX twin-engine fatals caused by the elevator trim tab being hooked up backwards, don't know that's possible on this plane though. If so, it's almost impossible to detect on the ground unless one is aware of the issue and unless one does a very careful and thoughtful control check.
That's interesting as I had a very tough instructor who told me to always treat the trim tab as a control surface and never pre-flight without physically checking it by moving trim in one direction and making sure that's exactly how the trim tab was supposed to move. In over 4800 hours commercial fixed and rotary... owning 5 planes and participating in GA I have never known a pilot to check their trim tab.
@@mynosycat As an A&P for over 40 years and a pilot, I'm always amazed at how people think "tab up=elevator up=nose up." When I was flying, I always ran the trim a bit - but when flying my own plane, knowing it had no maintenance in the area, I didn't bother to check which way the tab was moving. Had a cable been replaced, I would have checked it about six times before I let anyone fly it. Control surfaces are THE most important part of any aircraft.
@@chipsawdust5816 I did not mean to imply the trim tab would move in the "same" direction but move in the "right" direction... poor wording on my part.
@@mynosycat No I got your wording - I was talking about many people, especially green mechanics who don't think things through. I believe all mechanics should at least be student pilots - it helps them to realize what it's like to have your ass 5000 feet up :)
@@chipsawdust5816 Yeah it can be counter-intuitive. I like to think of the trim tab as an elevator for the elevator. Tab up makes the "nose" of the elevator go up.
It seems like there should always be at least two in the tower. What if the sole person has a medical emergency. Condolences for all impacted with this accident!
My flying began at Montgomery Orange County airport in New York state. I also flew many times to other locations in upstate NY. Never did I encounter a rude sounding controller even when I flew to Teterboro airport in New Jersey.
Juan, first of all my condolences to all that perished due to this flight.
I flew a 421B Golden Eagle for a small coal company out of WV. Previously my twin experiences were with an Apache 235, an Aztec, a Navajo, some Barron time and some hours in the right seat of a King Air 300. I was a CFII and SEL and MEL. When I was hired to fly the Golden Eagle I did a lot of reading on this plane especially from pilots that published accounts of years of flying one. My owner sent me to school on it plus I had to be checked out by the insurance company pilot examiner before I was turned loose with it. As you know, it is the most complex light twin ever made as pilots need training in all of its systems. You need a high altitude sign-off plus knowledge of the pressurization system, the management of the fuel system which will have 5 or 6 tanks (only 5 if you have AC), as normally you have mains which on the 421B are the tip tanks, then the inboards, plus a locker tank which if full will pump into the other tanks. While operating in the inboards they will additionally pump fuel back into the tip tanks which you have to take off and land on. The other complication I are the engines, Cessna used geared engines to quiet the operation of the aircraft. The props turn slower than the engine which means the props are huge, like a 7’ diameter and you better get them feathered in an engine out scenario as the drag will limit any distance of flight single engine. Even the heating system is complicated. You can heat the aircraft of engine heat or if need be use the gasoline heater. W&B is tricky too and must absolutely be paid attention too. The nose will hold quite a lot but still all weight has to be on the money. I often weighed people and adjusted seating as need be. The engines are a handful and this is a hot rod of an airplane and will literally shoot you down the runway on take-off. There is even a one shot fire retardant system if the engines catch fire too. I was taught to hold full power on them until, I was at least 1500’ AGL before I pulled them back to 1900 rpm for a cruise climb. . The crankshaft has counter weights on them and even at idle where most twins might be at 1000rpm, with the 421 we kept it at 1200rpm. The reason to hold full power till 1500 AGL was if the engines were going to fail on take off it can happen as you pull power back and you want 1500 AGL to give you a chance to survive. Furthermore in a certain midrange rpm the harmonics are not good on these engines and you are not allowed to loiter there just move through it.
I lost the left engine once descending out of 19,000’ at around 7000’ at 1700 rpm with a step down descent from ATC flying into Orangeburg, SC. Like a Jack rabbit on a date, quickly killed fuel, feathered the prop and went to zero manifold pressure. To feather the prop the lever must move to a lower notch which you have to slide the lever through. Next the tanks to the left engine were cut off too all the time you are right rudder and banking into the right engine. Have to admit once that critical engine prop is feathered this plane files beautifully. I few another 30 nm to Columbia CAE and landed without incident. Due to asymmetric force on final with full flaps you reduce the right engine power so you are almost in a glide on final to maintain centerline.
When we inspected the engine there was a hole the size of a peach in the case by the jug. Either a spun bearing or rod failure. That engine had something like 1577 hours on it. They are only good for 1600 and we were getting ready for the TBO. My passengers and I were lucky to be alive but training had more to do with it than luck and as the saying goes stay calm and fly the airplane. The 421 aircraft are super great to fly, a real experienced pilot’s plane and a mechanic’s nightmare for sure. $30,000 is normal or more to keep it safe and airworthy for an annual. If you have the money, have a knowledgeable shop and mechanic plus the training and experience, you will love flying it. If not stay the hell away from this plane. If you must have a light twin consider a Navajo especially the refurbished ones now being privately rehabbed. The Navajo is not pressurized and not the fastest but it’s a reliable workhorse. Most of all if you don’t fly that often in your twin, hire an experienced pilot to fly with you. When things go south in a twin they happen in split seconds. Hey maybe those thinking of twin at least need to do some soul searching and honest assessments of your skills. Thanks Juan and hopefully will hear from you on what actually happened here. Blue skies!
Keep the 🔵 side uP.💫
great comment.. a lot of good accurate information on this plane.. and some great advice.. i can't agree more.. learning systems and knowing them from memory.. and like you said.. if you aren't operating these things frequently.. bring someone who does.. you can't just casually stay proficient on a complex beast like a 421. great story about your engine out situation too. great job handling that so efficient. being ready with appropriate action in a split second.. saves lives.. thanks for sharing..
@@texastyrannyresponseteam794 Thanks for your comment. I just wanted to share how really complex this plane is even though it’s a great bird to fly. The thing is if you are good in a little boat with an average outboard you certainly don’t belong in an unlimited hydroplane. One other item I left out was I always worked as a helper with our mechanic at annual time so this taught me a lot about the complexities of this plane. Even the alternator or starter installation is complicated, the oil change too. After all this experience my most fun flying was a Cessna 150 I restored with a full Garmin panel of a 430WAAS too. Flew it up and down the coast and did my mechanical work on it too as a helper if I could with my mechanic. That little bird is still flying after I sold it as a trainer in OH, N10518. We called it the Skygnat!
@@UncaDave Skygnat, love it, thanks for all the informed detail. Tip of the hat to your piloting.
@@UncaDave great name for it.. Ive always assisted with annuals... I was helping as a kid on the family aircraft... Then my dad and I built a Glasair together... Come out the other side of that with alot of good experience... I'm still involved in maintanance/annuals/inspections today.. I wouldn't have it any other way.. I love learning as much as I can about each new aircraft as we moved up into bigger, more complex machines... I try to absorb as much of the information in the maintanance manuals as I can... A daunting task when the binders take up entire book shelves like the c90 books.. The main pc-12 manual is 8k pages.. At least they are digital now... Thanks for the comments..
The is way better reporting than any corporate news station. Straightforward, factual, and concise: great job.
i tried to get info from news the day of the crash and there was literally nothing useful. SO I just wait for Juan to find out what happened now days
News stations aren't specialists, they are generalists. You shouldn't be surprised.
That's like being upset that your home handyman isn't a jet engine mechanic.
@@JoshuaTootell No, it's like being upset that the news reports didn't give enough details about the plane crash.
Glade to have found this! I live here & we are still trying to get all the answers to what happened.
That was my old flight instructor Jackie Whitford. I'm shocked to be finding this out now. She was a great pilot and taught me everything I know today. Tragic.
Sorry to hear that. At the time of the accident, however, it appears her CFI certificate had been expired for two years and she had no medical.
So sorry to hear this. Very devastating scene to the families and loved ones. ❤
Barstadryan do you know who the pilot was?
Hearing the controllers voice after being told an aircraft crashed was chilling. I can only imagine being in his shoes....
It's got to be so frustrating knowing that you're trying to help, but there's only so much you can do besides constantly try to talk and help them through it, as long as able to work with you.
He was nothing short of mean to that pilot who was struggling.
@@myoung48281 I don't feel like he's being mean. It's ATC, you've got to be to the point and direct, because people's lives are at stake, and you have to know what's going on just as much as you expect other pilots to know what's going on.
He also had no way of knowing the pilot was struggling until the pilot announced he was having control issues. Until that point, he had no way of knowing and for all he knew, was dealing with someone who was either inexperienced or just not paying attention, both of which can be dangerous.
*Ya you could use Therapy*
And who are these insensitive eggplant people trying to get clearance immediately after this incident? Come on.
I fly out of TTD, and my in-laws saw the plane at about 200-300 feet over the two lakes just to the west, then messaged me within a minute of hearing the explosion. A lot of people saw it, and I think some more details will come out. Something interesting: If you compare the Cessna 150 with the 421 ADSB track, it looks like they ALMOST collided over the Columbia River. If the ADSB is correct, the 150 had to take evasive action.
Also, just on the south east corner of the pattern, there is a 700-800 foot bluff that rises out of the terrain, a 421 would normally do a pattern on the north side of the field, and this is often done for standard single engines as well.
I may be wrong, but I think the 421 had a flight plan filed to someplace in New Mexico, but I can't find it now. The controller seems to have done an OK job here. He has been around for 2+ years now, and can often sound like he is flustered when dealing with more than two aircraft at a time, but I've never experienced him having any real issues.
I don't understand why he didn't make it clear that he was doing a test flight, or why he would have a passenger during a test flight. I can't say that I know the plane, I don't think it is really from here, but I may have seen it on the ramp yesterday.
Also, the 1200' limitations on altitude is usually only when they are landing from the east at PDX. Traffic often flies into PDX at around 3000' from just outside of TTD Class D, so spacing is sometimes tight, and wake turbulence can be a thing. So the official traffic pattern alt is 1000', but when you depart to the north or south, you are told to stay at or below 1200' till 3 miles out. Going east, they don't give you that restriction. RIP, and I'm glad there were so few casualties on the ground, it could have been much worse.
I hope troutdale airport doesn’t get its runway shortened
I believe you have this controller confused with our other one. I’m pretty sure this is our new controller that is the replacement for the guy who left. Ive done all my training at troutdale and fly there regularly and I’ve only started hearing his voice within the last few months.
Every time I fly with this controller there is some issue. Never major but still nonetheless. Calling my 152 a Mooney and using the wrong tail number with it, saying my VFR request is a lot of information and I’m speaking too fast, not recognizing common landmarks for initial call up (tower hill), etc.
Thank you so much for adding that context and details. It is very helpful for us to understand the situation better.
@@lemion4521 Makes total sense..and with all due respect .......towards the end, the controller seemed overwhelmed as he called signed the 421 as "Golf Bravo" vs his call sign "Golf Papa"......☮🙏💫
@@rvrnnr987 the 150 was called by the tower as traffic ahead.
The aircraft community thanks you.
Great work. RIP to those souls
Thanks Kevin!
I was working the line at an uncontrolled airport around 2006, when a 421 departed south on a sunny but bitter cold day. Minutes later, center called and said he was in trouble and returning to the airport. His good landing gave no indication of trouble until he taxied up to the FBO. His wind shield had blown out and covered him in glass and sub zero wind. He was cut slightly and glasses protected his eyes but the amazing thing was his ability to navigate back to the ground without incident. We never found out or either I don't remember the subsequent details but at the time I thought this was some great pilot skill.
Dang!!!
Thank you for the reports. We as neighbors are still trying to get all the information. Yes, sadly we lost our neighbor who's home was hit, the other neighbors got out. It was terrifying . Please send prayers to the family who lost Loved one's & the families being displaced due to this accident.
I was in the campground next to where this accident happened. The engines sounded healtly going by, it was definitely spinning some rpm. I was laying down thinking it was odd you never hear propeller planes in this area. It's normally just jets going in and out of pdx, and no faster than having that thought heard the explosion and shook the camper pretty good.
@Shaden992 I used to live there! And you’re right, other than the ANG fighter jets taking off from PDX, it was rare to hear any air traffic. Very sad. But fortunate that it wasn’t a bone-dry tinderbox if that happened just beyond the railroad tracks.
They took off from troutdale airport an airport that specializes in these type of planes. They crashed near the airport after takeoff. PDX is the big airport with commercial jets.
@@Shaden992 you might want to contact the NTSB and give an eyewitness report.
@@Plutogalaxy the engines sounding healthy and the explosion part is what the NTSB might be interested in.
@Plutogalaxy you are correct, but I'm not sure if it's due to the heavy commercial traffic in/out of pdx or what but it is very rare to hear a small aircraft fly that close to the rv park. Or maybe it stood out because you never hear a plane fly THAT close in general.
It's saddening and sobering to hear the words of a man, and a women, who's lives are about to end. My condolences to those left behind. Of the passenger and the loved ones of the victim on the ground. RIP
sadly agree, watch those aircraft investagations programes and always wondered what hearing the peoples talking before the crash was like, very sad indeed
Life is precious. Live life like today is your last day. Hug your loved ones hard when you leave for work. It could very well be the last hug.
I thought only ONE *woman*.
woman - singular - one
women - plural - more than one
@@69adrummer
0.⁰ stares blankly. ⁰.0
@@69adrummer wow you're going to be THAT person eh. Actualy I should have said "your".
This was less than a mile from my house. I felt the impact - it woke me up and when I went outside I saw the column of smoke raising up. Crazy and so sad for the people who passed away.
Troutdale airport is very close to PDX, just a few miles east. More than sixty years ago, a United DC-8 bound for Portland landed at Troutdale by mistake. It was a big project to get it out again, given the short Troutdale runways.
Although I am retired now, I flew All over the Northwest. I once was in the mechanics off of Shasta and my airplane was getting beat up. Making no progress and burning fuel. Pitch Black at 10,000 ft. I heard another pilot go down and ATC calling to switch to 121.5 And saying I guess all we can do is send out search and rescue. I can't imagine what ATC goes through and this controller did well in spite of the circumstances. Very well. No one could have done any better❤❤❤
I live in that neighborhood, and the plane flew right over my house before it hit the power lines. I was just about to take my dog outside for our morning walk, and I heard the pilot throttle up the engines, thinking to myself that it sounded way too close and loud. A split second later were the three explosions as it hit two sets of power lines and then the house. I'm not a pilot, but I have always had an interest in aviation. I suspect that he throttled up when he realized he was lower than the powerlines, hoping he'd make it over them. The man who lost his wife is a friend of mine, and I can't imagine the grief he is feeling right now. This crash has shaken the neighborhood in more ways than one. RIP to all who lost their lives.
That’s tough to listen to. Once I did a test flight on a 421 for a mechanic and the aileron trim was rigged backwards. I should have checked the movement of the trim but I only checked the flight controls. I almost panicked after takeoff when it kept turning the wrong way. I stopped myself and tried the other direction. It fixed it. I brought it back and wrote it up for the mechanic. He turned white and apologized. He said that when he put it back together he wasn’t sure he had the cable on the right side of the pulley. I was lucky that day. I was also a professional pilot that had 10,000 hours and flew every day.
Do you think that is possibly the scenario with this plane also? The aileron trim rigged backwards...
And what could have happened if you were not the experienced pilot that you were to figure that out???!
@@danikadahl2824 I could have ended up like these poor guys. I don’t know what happened here. But it was something bad.
@@danikadahl2824 It could be. It’s interesting that they made it to 1700’ without rolling in immediately after takeoff. That suggests that it wasn’t an engine failure. Juan eluded to that as well. It’s had to speculate but it will sure be interesting
Spoken like a true amateur.
As a long time subscriber, I started following you when you were recovering from your ailment. Those were undoubtedly the good old days when we could
enjoy our activities, flying, motorcycling and just having a pretty good idea what our tomorrows would be. Then came the Oroville spillway disaster followed
barely settled and then by the pandemic and the mass of jumbled information from left, right and center. We enjoyed a respite for a short time until the fire
disasters, one after the other. And seemingly the aircraft crashes, one after the other, large and small without much of a break between them. You have
maintained a very consistent levelheaded reporting of these, which are much appreciated. It must be hard to maintain a calm demeanor while giving your
followers an excellent report on these endless disasters. Thank you Juan for your public service.
Whats amazing to me is that these major California disasters (and some of the plane crashes) happened just a short distance from Juan's house in Grass Valley. So he knew firsthand about the local details that most news outlets had no information on. He's doing a great job in reporting on all of these incidents.
@@georgespalding7640 I agree about most locations. But this incident is up North, on the Oregon/Washington border. The Troutdale Airport is up the Columbia River, due East of PDX, the International Airport for Portland, OR. There are some lakes along the shore of the Columbia. There is a video of the fire, from a boat on one of those lakes, looking across the water. Most other videos are from the city streets. Some comments mentioned that the engines and the explosion could be heard from the nearby campground. These townhomes are at the edge of a neighborhood. On maps, you can see I-84 running E-W, parallel to the airport runways that are closer to the river. 😔
Thanks Desert!
@@georgespalding7640 I am a native to Northern California and everything worthwhile happens in that area, except, of course, the acts of our state government! The only fun thing that happens in the southern part is car chases!
@@desertdenizen6428 Southern California has its perks. But I know what you mean. Northern California offers a lifetime of joy if you are an outdoors person and like road trips, great hikes, great natural parks, great photography and the fascinating history of California. And by the way, I was born in Marysville just 20 miles from Grass Valley.
This crash was in my neck of the woods, and occurred VERY close to the home of a good friend. She lives just across a field from the site. Their home shook so hard she thought a bomb exploded- and she is not easily rattled! The plane entered one condo and plowed straight thru to a second unit. The ensuing fire and firefighting response was a sight to behold in this small town!
Experienced pilots in the area said the plane absolutely sounded “wrong” and expressed concern that it wasn’t gonna make it…
This is a tiny airport and the incident has rocked this community. They’re used to hearing planes, but this has several people seriously considering moving…
Condolences to all who lost family or friends🙏.
PS Juan your name was all over Reddit right after this occurred!
And of course I had immediately told my friend that you would be posting the best info asap! 😊
Wow...terrible tragedy! 😢
I live in Portland and when I heard about the crash I was shocked. My heart sank with sadness.
Not your fault ATC, stay strong. Condolences to the families
I listened to the conversations about this incident on VAS earlier tonight. You can tell that the pilot is overwhelmed with what is going on. Very obvious he's struggling. In fact he let out a big sigh, and I told myself when I heard that that he probably knew at that time what was going to happen and had just resigned himself to the fact that that was it. A woman came on the radio talking to the tower I don't know if that was wife daughter friend or who. Very sad RIP and condolences to the families.
god works in mysterious ways
@@Digitalgems9000🫣🤭🫡
@@Digitalgems9000
Really?
@@Digitalgems9000 genius take
@@Hazza4257 ty babe
I work in an MRO as a maintainer. We serve just about any make, but we specialize in Cessna, Cirrus and Beech. We've got a 421C that we see regularly and I can confirm that they are a maintenance nightmare. Any time that thing comes in for annual, it ends up with a discrepancy list 3-4 pages deep. They're extremely high performance aircraft and they just absolutely shake themselves to pieces. They're subject to a laundry list of AD's and service bulletins and are, indeed, extremely expensive to operate and maintain. Stands to reason it may have been down for extensive repairs or upgrades. Be curious to see what the investigation pegs as the cause.
Good comment and well written.
Thanks for getting a report out quickly. My daughter lives a few miles from there. So awful to listen to those transmissions. Feel so bad for ALL involved.
Very little information from local authorities on this crash. I knew Juan would put out a LOT more details. Much appreciated. Condolences to the families of those lost and all affected by this horrible and sad tragedy, including those just made homeless.
I owned and flew a twin Cessna like this for 10 years. They are a lot to handle when things go bad. For the proficient, trained and prepared pilot they are fine, but if those criteria aren't met, it's a serious challenge. RIP.
I find Seminoles a handful, I can’t imagine this. Very unfortunate.
How often did you fly it ?
Garmin equipment installation that three in 6 weeks
@@cammiller5516🎯
true
My condolences to everyone 🙏 prayers to the family for their horrific loss
I've never flown into Troutdale, but I've passed the airport many times as a truck driver: there's a pretty good sized helicopter flight school there - that's who the controller was talking to, when he told other aircraft to "take a 30 or so minute break at the fbo".
Thank you
hillsboro aero academy
That has to be stressful, being the only one in the tower, you recognize that a plane is in trouble, and then you find out they went down.
He thought his paycheck was going to be easy.
Especially after you speak to the soon to be dead pilot in such a disparaging manner
@@lemansz That was not talking in a disparaging manner; nowhere close.
@@smesui1799 I'm not sure I'd call ATC an "easy" paycheck even in the best of times. It sounds like one of the more stressful jobs one can have this side of going into firefights.
@@somealias-zs1bw By a lot of counts it is the most stressful job.
this is heartbreaking
my sincerest condolences to family and friends of those lost lives and to the neighborhood affected
Our family owned a 421B, 1975 manufactured Golden Eagle.
It was a lot of airplane to fly. You really had to be experienced at these strong twins and know how to handle them when things go south. Maintenance years ago was 50,000 bucks a year to keep everything cherry and tip top. It's no toy it's the real thing
5-7 homes were actually affected, I live in the neighborhood 2 pilots died and 1 person in the house
This one sounded like one of those events that started before they began to taxi. Coms problems, no plan, a lot of confusion on the radio as to what they were doing.
They ruined everyone's labor day weekend.
How true.
Especially their own.
That should have been their cue to return for a radio fix, did they do a flight control check or did something fail after t/o, test flt after maint big red flag to go over with a fine tooth comb! R.I.P to the crew 🙏
My thoughts as well. Was clear to me that the pilot isn’t in right state of mind for this flight.
Man I have been a pilot and aircraft mechanic for 38 years and I have never really liked the 421 and 414. Its really a two pilot airplane, I have lost a few friends to two separate 421 accidents, and they were great pilots with many years of flying under thier belt. Not to mention loosing an engine on take off is a death sentence. Its a beautiful aircraft all dolled up. If your thinking about purchasing a 421 or 414 "Don't " your better off with a 340, 310, or a 303 if you want to stick with Cessna. That is my thoughts and my experience with the 421 and 414, 406. Take care Brother. Hawk out!!
310 is a completely different aircraft in capability and mission set. You’re not going to sell someone on a 4 seat light twin that needs a 7 seat, pressurized, FIKI, cabin-class twin with onboard radar. If you can’t handle a 421 solo you probably shouldn’t have a multi license.
My grandfather owned a 414 and 421 for years. Actually he owned both of them at the same time along with a 340, 172 and 182. His aircraft were very cared for and always went to the maintenance shop and then test flown a week before any trip whether it was needed or not. We took a lot of trips in them as well. He constantly practiced his emergency procedures with each of his aircraft and I had been with him on engine failure takeoff and landing practices among others. He instilled in me from a very young age to constantly practice your skill and to never feel like you know it all or ever get too comfortable especially when it came to flying airplanes. He flew during WW2 and was one of if not the best pilot I’ve ever flown with and he learned to fly at 10 years old in an old bi-plane. I never touched the controls of a single engine aircraft until I was 19 but I’d had flown plenty of twins by that point.
It shouldn’t need two pilots, but rather one who is physically capable because the controls are quite heavy, especially after an engine failure. Speaking from experience in B and C models, the single engine rudder force required is significant. Stepping on the ball is most important requirement since it has 375 hp which is 100 higher than the average continental engine which makes for a lot of differential power.
The problem is recency. Flying isn't easy. I've got 21k hours. Mostly airline, but also single pilot twins. People think it's like driving a car, but airline pilots joke with each other during preflight briefings all the time "I've been on a two week vacation and can't remember how to fly, please keep an eye out and save me from myself if I'm entirely lost." Every joke has some truth to it. Low time, rarely flying, single pilot, any airplane. Not a good combo. Fast and slippery planes are worse. Half of all the GA accidents are exactly for this reason, and most of the other half is people who make unfortunate and unprofessional choices. Flying into ice, clouds, at night, with broken equipment, etc etc. I tell people all the time "Have a look at professional aviation operating rules and procedures, and apply them to your Part 91 flying and you've already moved the needle 80%." This includes maintenance, flight time limitations, recency training, etc etc. Each rule written in blood, and should be paid attention to even if not legally applicable.
@@DylanClements98agreed
I’m out of TTD. When PDX is landing on the 28’s and the TTD tower is in operation all south bound departures are limited to 1200’ to stay under the ILS PDX approach’s.
The aircraft had been sitting at one of the repair shops for some time as the aircraft had lots of maintenance issues.
Yes, it’s kind of unfortunate that PDX obstructs the path, I think troutdale airport could be better if the port of Portland didn’t own it and they stopped trying to shut down the airport or make the runway smaller.
My dad was co-order of a 421 for several years. He knew it was "too much" airplane for him and he went back to his first love, an Aero Commander 500S
accidents with ground fatalities are to me the worse, imagine you're in the house relaxing, and a plane falls on you and kills you,wtf...
it's one thing for us pilots to be killing ourselves in small planes but when people on the ground start dying it's going to be curtains for general aviation
I live a mile off the end of an GA airport runway. When we purchased our house, there was a statement in the home's title that basically said we knew we lived in an airport flight path. Anybody complaining about airports, living near airports, needs to have their head examined.
@@huh4233 Just because you agreed to a danger doesn't mean we should ignore it. You agree to traffic fatalities whenever you drive, heart health issues with greasy foods, diabetes with soft drinks, etc. These are bad outcomes we should be trying to prevent.
Perhaps airports and zoning need a bit of reform for public safety. I was recently in San Diego and saw half a dozen small GA planes do a few low altitude circles around a theme park full of children. Stuff like that makes me think these pilots have a screw loose, because if they had a mechanical issue there's a good chance of pedestrian fatalities.
@@huh4233 They lobby to close the airport to increase their home's value.
imagine being about 200 feet away as it flew by... i can still hear it in my head. it crashed 277 yards from my RV. i thought that the train derailed for a second.
A small fleet of 421's was the first aircraft I ever maintained after I got my A&P in 85. The geared engines always had short TBO's and compared to a Baron or Bonanza they were always in the shop with maintenance squawks.
Did you love putting safety wire on the finger screen? :)
I worked at a Piper dealership. Test flights after some maintenance not all, were part of routine. Test pilot and the mechanic would fly. Been on many test flights. I can’t even guess on this one!
I am not a pilot, but I do fly commercially 3-4 times a year. This was an excellent presentation and very informative. I hope pilots and those contemplating purchase of private planes will follow the professional advice presented here!
Dad had one back in the 70s, maintenance and engine overhaul cost dearly, he kept it about 5 yrs.
I watched this when it came out but didn't realize I knew the instructor until now. So very sad, Jackie was great to fly with. My deepest condolences to her family and friends.
Condolences to the families involved.
The Troutdale ATC guys are awesome, they’re always helpful when I’m passing through. Love to see them do their jobs so well.
Yeah, his demeanor went from sternly directing to supportive and informative, as the situation called for.
I knew the one resident who pasted away and it was/is very heartbreaking. Prayers to the neighborhood
Any information on the pilot and passenger?
@@Angelum_Band No, I just knew the resident
When I worked in GA I would often be invited to go on 'test flights' as dead weight, Being younger I didn't understand the risk involved especially if this flight was after major maintenance or repair. We always flew the circuit and maybe these styles of crashes are a huge reminder that living under the circuit flightpath is risky business.
Thanks Juan. I took flight training out of Troutdale airport, so this is right in my backyard. Condolences for those lost.
This plane crashed one block from me. At first we thought it was an earthquake, all our windows and doors shook then we saw huge black smoke rising. I feel so bad for those that lost their lives but it could have been much worse because it was a Saturday morning when most people are home.
I'm a couple miles west of you. Sorry about your lost neighbor and the local damage. I'm glad the fire fighter brigades all rose to the occasion and got it under control quite quickly.
When the crash happened I was in the Albertsons at 181st/Glisan. The power went out, and when I got outside I could see the fire.
So sad and frightening. I live less that 5 miles from the crash site and of course heard all about it. Out power flickered several times at the time of impact, of course we didn't know why at the time. Very sad to lose a person on the ground, just sitting in their house enjoying life. Very sobering. I appreciate the video and information provided.
Tragic. Sounded like he was distracted even when he was taxiing. My speculation: Something other than First Principles had this pilot's attention -- perhaps a known mechanical issue -- and he allowed it to consume most of his attention.
Fixation on a single issue is mighty dangerous, indeed.
I agree there was something on in his mind. I hope we find out to help out others. RIP to all so sad. Controller was shaken up. Feel for him.
@@mikemicksun6469 Yes, the issue where he couldn't put attention on holding his mic button down during comms is telling. This one is surely to be talked about for awhile, I'd imagine.
@@miketype1each I wonder why the flight instructor didn't hold it down for him?
@@PDXLily I've no idea. Anyway, I'm not a pilot, but did crew chief 111s back in the day.
Was at work today in Portland, saw the news on my break , immediately thought of Juan ‘s report , got this info out fast ! Thank you
Heartbreaking to hear this... I've flown in/out of Troutdale. It's a small airport right on the Columbia and the airspace is pretty tight with PDX. My heart goes out to the families of the lives lost.
I was about 5 miles away and saw the mushroom cloud go up. Unfortunately he took out a 230kV line on his way down and may have made it back if he hadnt have clipped those. Cause a huge outage and power issues across the metro area. There were still traffic lights out at 1700 local in SE Portland.
Man that was tough to listen to. Sounded very confused and behind the plane, must of had his hands full. Great job reporting as always. Thank you Juan. Prayers to those who lost their lives and loved ones.
Airplane went through major annual maintenance for a longer period of time always makes me nervous, especially with many parts repaired or replaced. R.I.P😥
I flew at Troutdale for the Cessna FBO/shop for a couple years in mid-seventies. When the shop needed a test flight, they'd call ops and whoever was available and rated (and needed the money - $5/flight hour doesn't go far) could take the flight. We had a rule that if the mechanic wouldn't come along, we wouldn't go.
There was little if any checkout in whatever plane had to be flown, just be ASEL or AMEL as appropriate, and a chat with the shop about the work to be "tested."
This one is close to home for me as I've flown in that area a lot. RIP to the pilots and civilian on the ground
Not a “civilian”- a citizen.
@@kevinthree a civilian, as in not a pilot or passenger on the general aviation airplane that crashed. It was not an insult nor derogatory. It's an actual term.
@@elizabethbottroff1218 The definition of civilian is clear. All parties involved were civilians, including those aboard.
Excellent video. Thank you for your work on this. Looking forward to hearing more on this mishap.
From my experience as a 182 owner in Tucson. Maintenance competency for today’s GA aircraft sucks. My ready to fly after maintenance was lost. And when found, the interior was still in pieces. This was by the certified repair station at KAVQ.
An IA friend who quit this FBO said it was run like a lawnmower shop.
It really does, my brother had no end of incompetence displayed when he was getting maintenance done on his aircraft.
I quit my old shop for very similar reasons and more. Went corporate aircraft and it’s great…actually get time to do it right without being insanely stressed. On my exit interview the owner was “ok with alternative methods” to the maintenance manual….and im not talking reasonable methods.
Repair station doesn’t always mean anything, that old shop I left wanted no actual RS procedures, but everything is good on paper and that’s all the FAA has checked in the last 3-4 years I was there. Basically acted like a part 65 (on your own ticket) shop versus pt 145.
This is why I work as an independent I.A. The last shop I worked for nearly cost everybody their certificates.
I don't know how many times I've been called to set up Continental fuel injection systems after some guys at some shop got everything screwed up. The only people who can afford to start up and pay for a genav shop are these guys with huge military and airline retirement accounts. They usually know NOTHING about piston airplanes, yet they somehow crashed an I.A. course and got the ticket. The most inept I.A. I ever knew always bragged about how it took him 20 minutes to complete the I.A. test and he got a 100 on it.
Another thing that just kills the business is cheap owners. I do mobile maintenance. If some guy calls me wanting me to come out to his hangar and do an Annual on a 414, I know he's a cheap-ass. I just tell them that I don't work on twins, they are too much to deal with working out of my truck. They need to go to a well equipped shop with at least two mechanics, an I.A., and a parts guy in order to comprehensively perform such an annual in a timely fashion. Such a job would take me a few weeks.
It's the same for airliners at big MRO facilities. Lots of youths with no A&P licenses-- God alone knows their work ethic, or those of their Quality folks.
Well, you get what you pay for. I've had to deal with pretty cheap pilots and operators throughout my career. I always said that the pilot needs to be on the same level of professionalism and ethical behavior as I am before I'll lay a hand on his or her aircraft...and no, I'm not installing that radio you bought on eBay.
RIP EVERYONE ON BOARD AND ALL ON GROUND.
OUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU.
Thanks Juan Browne. I saw and heard this earlier. Pure desperation before it got off the ground. I worked with a fellow who owned on of these back in the late seventies. High maintenance for certain. It will be interesting to study the history surrounding this crash. Not only the flyers but the innocent victim on the ground.
I live about 1,200 feet from the crash site in Fairview OR.
I felt the impact, like a minor earthquake, and it shook my home. There is about 5 high voltage power lines shut off and cut by the plane. They are in the 33,000 to 225,000 volt range. So about 45 to 65 feet above the ground. There is a swamping grass area under the power lines in this area, possibly a good place to set down, but they might not have seen the power lines, and crashed into them, then flipped into the condo building that is at about 50 feet higher elevation.
4 condo buildings caught fire, and one person on the ground died. Her husband went to Costco, and she wanted to sleep in. My friend's daughter lived in one of the condo's that caught fire, they where at Church.
I am happy that I found this very useful information. Seems like the pilot did not know the VFR altitude restrictions for Troutdale Airport. We are about 10 miles east of PDX - Portland International Airport. I see large planes in the landing pattern all of the time, and take off when there is eastbound winds. Most of the time, about 80% is winds from the west, so I see the landing planes, not frequent planes taking off.
The winds today where less than 5 MPH.
What my neighbors said is that it seems like the airplane had lost power. So 2 engine failure?
thanks for this info.
I know such construction is normal in USA but I've never liked the idea of wooden houses. I heard that a wood house can be destroyed by fire in one hour, compared to four hours for a brick built house.
Going 190 knots with a dual engine failure? Unless he pointed the nose straight down...
Thank you for the info. I feel for the families and hope there's a way to help. I live nearby but was way out by the Portland airport when it hit. The building lights out there actually dimmed at the time of the crash.
The ADS-B data does suggest they were going down fast, which might suggest the pilot was absorbed by problem solving and forgot to fly the aircraft.
I hate to have to say it but the second voice on the radio from the accident aircraft sounded more like a kid to me than a female.
I was waiting on your report, Juan. I was going to email you the news link but didn't know if you were working this weekend. Very sad situation. Our plane spotting crew was setting up to stream from Portland at the time of this crash. Condolences to the families of the victims.
I saw this pop up on my scanner app today, it alerts you when a whole bunch of people are listening to one specific area and says what the issue is, “plane crash into occupied neighborhood with large post crash fire” . Condolences to the victims and their families, especially the person on the ground who hopefully had no idea what hit them. I’m surprised to see this so quickly! You’re on it @blancolorio!
please share the app you use
@@Hazza4257scanner radio
Same here. Saw it on the scanner app. Blancolirio is top notch. So fast.
@@MrTankilla what is the app?
Robin_Sage, The fire was not really all that large. It was restricted to only 4 condo's in a complex. I don't know if they had fire sprinklers, but that is possible. Yes it could have been much worse. There where down 225,000 volt power lines, so some grass in a very wet field was burned, less than about 200 square feet.
My friend's condo was burned, and her neighbor was sleeping in while her husband went to Costco. My friends where at Church, so un-harmed.
I live about 1,200 feet from the plane crash site, and there are power company trucks out there tonight replacing the down power lines at 11 pm, 8-31-24. The grass fire is about 200 feet from the nearest house where I live, but about 800 feet from my home.
The column of smoke was always less than 80 feet in diameter, so a small fire. The fire trucks arrived within 4 minutes. Nearby Portland sent over a ladder truck, with a 105' tall ladder. The ladder truck arrived within 15 minutes. The fire was out within 30 minutes.
Condolences to all affected. Although no flight should ever be considered routine, test flights carry a much higher risk because of the very nature of the flight and the unknowns.
Then there should never be a non-maintenance passenger, IMHO.
@@alreaud You are correct. I suspect it was a mx person or a pilot. Sadly, something went terribly wrong. My experience is all Part 121 and military. Every Part 121 airline and FAA strictly prohibit non-mx personnel on test flights. I'm not sure what FAA allows on GA or Part 135 mx test flights. I can't imagine any test flight carrying a person not somehow associated with the work that was accomplished. I've never seen it.
Then there was that local guy who was over in Czech Republic test flying an AN2 before buying it. The instructor/salesman was Polish and could speak German, and the mechanic was German and could speak English. Three man cockpit crew! All "essential"! Interesting flying lesson.
I accumulated many hours years ago in the C421 flying for a charter company. The airplane is an absolute pleasure to fly, but when things go wrong ( I've had two engine issues, not failures ) it can become quite a handful to fly, very fast. It's definitely not a forgiving airplane during emergency operations. ........... My condolences to the families and friends of the perished victims.
Can you give some examples of how it's a handful to fly and not very forgiving?
@@sanfranciscobay see above
In this case I wouldn't think it had a thrust problem it was going over 190 kt. Maybe a control problem?
Excellent job of reporting and explaining this event !
Thank you Juan ! That's my home town, I've landed there multiple times
It sounds like a small thing, but I think the controller was right...he was letting off the mic button too soon. When I started my private pilot training, if I got nervous I would either hold the mic button down for too long, or not long enough. I kicked that habit until I started instrument training and the nerves came back because the workload was overwhelming at times. I'm definitely not qualified to say that this was pilot error, BUT the pilot sounded uncomfortable with the aircraft from the get go. I think the mic thing was a bit of a telltale sign. Condolences to all of the families of the victims.
Sounded medical issue to me ?
@@julesviolin There is literally no evidence of that so far.
It’s called transmission clipping.
Can be pilot error or I suspect in this case a dodgy PTT switch seeing how the airplane hadn’t flown in a while.
If this pilot was qualified to carry out a test flight in a high performance twin then he should have been more than competent using the transmit button.
I wondered if the sun was involved as the power also went out in that area. It’s been causing radio black outs with small flares. X-class level aurora despite M-class flares. 2 planes in 2 months too? Odd. Not very sigma-6 at all.
I don't like to speculate, but that's all we can do before we know all the facts. My gut instinct is: this guy had or came into some money, bought a nice, powerful twin and didn't spend the time and money to learn to pilot it well enough to be safe flying it. A pure mechanical failure strikes me as less likely than the majority being attributable to pilot-error or inexperience. The radio comms and the flight-data seem in-line with what you'd expect to see if an under-trained pilot took off before realizing that he'd bitten off more than he could handle. Even on his complete transmission on the ground: he re-keyed the radio to recite his tail-number. It just doesn't fill me with tremendous amounts of confidence. You'd expected him to have made a call to report something if it was weight and balance or a control surface giving him problems. It appears that the plane was reasonably controllable - he just doesn't appear to have ever been in control of it.
Here you are already, Amen...Thought we would have to wait a few days. Your reports are the 💥 Best! Thank You!
we waited a YEAR for the Idaho F-14 PILOT information !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! control lock... not too complex.
@@dks13827 Technically, NTSB will often take up to 2 years to release an official incident report. Juan will give us a brief summary video like this if enough information is publicly available. The fire and debris field will hamper the investigation for cause.
From Portland…thanks for you info and analysis…much better, more thorough, than local media. Take care
Ditto. Agreed.
Did your lights flicker? I was in the Pearl and mine did several times, I’d never seen it before.
@@Sashazur During a live feed chat on another channel, some people lost power over in North Portland, also. I wonder if the unexpected shock to the system over in the East had a domino effect in some of the other grids for a bit?
@@Sashazur I was adjacent to where the crash was, within sight of the townhomes just around the corner from me, and lights flickered a lot. The boom was so loud the house shook and I thought someone had rammed a truck into it. Scary stuff. I feel so awful for the person in the townhomes that died and those in the plane. From neightbors closer to it, they hit a line in the marsh area between our residential areas when they clipped a tower and FD had to come in and put out brushfire from live line.
From Troutdale, I agree. Even Pulse Point(emergency service app) didn't disclose why an extreme amount of units were on scene. Saw the smoke on our way west on Halsey. Appears the plane made a pass right over our house 😮
Listening to the ATC transmissions it sounded like there was confusion onboard the Cessna before the flight and especially after they were airborne. I have friends that live in the adjacent city of Gresham. The crash site wasn’t far from their home. Condolences to the families of those who were lost.
50 years ago that area was all farmland. Flooded real bad in mid 60's. Course, that was before they built 20 dams on the Columbia.
i live in east gresham
@@Parkhill57not the same area, you’re talking about vanport.
I’m a 421 driver. It’s a lot of airplane when things go wrong. Prayers for those that perished and injured.
Former 340 and 421 driver here as well, I can sign your statement sir.
Do have any idea(s) as to what the pilot means by "handling difficulties"? Is there any thing unusual ( gotcha) about the C421?
@idanceforpennies281 there's just not a lot of room for error. You've got to get it coordinated, get the power in on the good engine, feather the bad engine, and nail your climb speed and hope it's enough to actually allow you to climb. Speed too slow and you sink (and maybe spin), too fast and you sink. Speed just right and if you're lucky it'll climb. Just a lot of control manipulation in a very short amount of time and can be physically demanding as well.
@@rocketman374 This plane needs a lot of training/ experience for pilotage. There's nothing "wrong" with the plane; as Juan says, you just need to know it. Like you do.
Agreed, great airplane if you're current and proficient, but it's a handful single pilot if something goes wrong. Marginal on one engine, you've got to get it right, no room for error.
I am saddened by this. Condolences to all those who lost loved ones!😢
Little to no information on the local news. Thanks for the update.
The shop that serviced that plane services mine and they are meticulous. I've been a pilot for 36 years, owned several planes, and give the owner five stars for the quality of his work and depth of knowledge. I saw that twin in their hangar for at least a couple of years and thought, "Whoever owns that beast better know what they're doing." It looked like a baby King Air and seemed suited for someone with lots of experience and a highly professional attitude. On the face of it, this terrible accidents seems like it could have been avoided.
May or may not be relevant, but just a little over 40 years ago Cessna started two test programs for cruciform tail versions of the 421 and the 414. On both models, the horizontal tail was relocated from the fuselage to the vertical tail. Unfortunately, both programs got scrubbed due to the company's financial troubles during the down market at that time. This is just some information for thought and does not necessarily have a single thing to do with what caused this crash.
This is a very sad event. I live just a few miles away, and this is the first I have heard about the.
I grew up in Northern Virginia, and I remember a similar tragedy involving a small twin-engined aircraft in the town where I lived. I believe it was a ferry pilot who was taking the aircraft from Dulles Airport to wherever the new owner of the plane was located. He experienced engine trouble and tried to make an emergency landing on a golf course in a heavy fog.
He ended up ramming into the end house on a set of townhouses. The impact and fire killed the pilot and the couple that lived there. Their daughter was at school (the school that was at, probably), and it was unusual that they were not at work that day. Bad luck.
The man in the next house in the row was sitting on his couch when the engines came through the wall on either side of him. He survived.
Thanks!
The ATC guy is also new to the job, at least at this airport. Hes often rude and makes mistakes but its a hard job. I often tell myself that when he gets rude with me for no reason. He didnt mess up here but his attitude wasnt helping anyone. Hopefully he'll be more patient going forward. When an ATC is being rude and pushy it adds another level of stress and distraction
Yep, absolutely right.
At firstt the pillot didn't indicatted that he was having problems flying the plane. That itself would frustrate any ATC when you are in their Air space and it's busy
Doesn't help when he's the only one staffing the tower cab.
Having watched/listened to a number of these now over the years and, well, being a human with life experience, this controller did not sound pleasant to deal with, especially in an emergency. I get it’s a hard job, but you sign up for this. Be kind to the pilots, even the ones that frustrate you. I feel for the families of the souls on board.
agree - he sounds like a dick but in his defense the pilot was not doing a good job of communicating, which is 50% of the pilot's responsibility in relation to ATC (the other being to do what you have agreed on). From the problems with the radios to lack of clarity with intentions to changing plans to busting airspace, I would say the tower had plenty of reason to be frustrated. as is usually the case, there's two sides to this. guarantee that controller feels like shit right now ...
Incorporating in Delaware has no tax advantage, as Corporations are subject to taxation in the States they are located in and doing business in. The purpose of incorporating in Delaware is that the identities of the directors are not made available in the public records. A servicing agent of a Delaware Corporation must be named in the public records, ,but no others.
Nothing says anonymity like Knights of Malta? Legal question mark included
An LLC is not a corporation
If someone wants to be anonymous running a business they are probably cutting all sorts of corners
It’s also the easiest state to incorporate and they have the Delaware court of chancery which many companies prefer over courts with juries.
@@BAD_CONSUMERand running a dodgy business??
I owned and run a 421C for over 5 years and my Maintenance and Annuals ran $60,000 plus a year - that kept it in first class SAFE flight Condition. They are lovely to fly, the issues folks have is always related to inadequate training and cheaping out on what is very expensive maintenance…🙏🌏
@donaldh-f4j maybe on a 172
@@moejr1974 NOPE. Not even on a 172.
Curious to about how many hours a year that averaged. I’m not doubting you I’m just really curious. Thanks!
100% true on the 421. 👍
A lot of 400 series owners try to maintain them on an unrealistic budget. These aircraft require very knowledgeable mechanics, a realistic budget, competent pilot and quality training. Anything less will result in tears.
There's a very busy heli school, HAA at the SE corner. They have at least a dozen R22s and four or more R44s. The tower has been understaffed, they literally close for lunch break (45 mins) and turn into an E.
It's also interesting 421GP wasn't sending ADSB data, only TIS-B echos, rebroadcast from the PDX radar. Also note they filed an IFR flight plan for 10:50 (crash was 10:20), so I think they were going to pick it up in the air. It was TTD-SGU, so I bet the plane was FULL of fuel.
I didn't know why he was so stressed when I came in a few dozen minutes later.
I just posted a rambling rant regarding the controller did not do anyone any favors...seemed he was overloaded...not his fault but certainly sounded like that...and the issues with increased airspeed, loss of altitude and maintaining constant bank angle until impact seems to have happened right after Tower barked, "NOW"...instructing pilot to decrease altitude....strange one indeed
@@Capt_OscarMikeIt’s because he was flying in PDX’s airspace reserved for commercial airliners
@@johnthomson3248 False, KPDX is not (nor could be) reserved for "commercial airliners". In fact, had our pilot asked for a squawk code and coordination with PDX for a hop over to there it could have been easily arranged. All it takes for any aircraft to enter Class C is two-way radio comm, and unlike Class B (LAX size airpots) specific spoken clearance into the airspace is not required (but you must be talking to the Class C controllers). Now, landing at PDX (and most other Class C and B airports) is prohibitive because of cost which is why "outlier" airports are favored, easier and more economical to use. But a Cessna 150 could legally land at LAX, but you better bring your VISA card.
no one has mentioned how stressed out anyone who worked on this airplane in the last 6 months is feeling.
We are all thinking it though, as Juan mentioned it a few times in the vidd
Tragic. R.I.P. Thanks for the reporting.
RIP to the fine folks. As an aside - your background is fantastically artistic and dark I really like that.
Thanks for an informative video. I watched yesterday's local press conference and you provided a lot of information that they didn't.
Commercial flights do fly that area when the prevailing winds at PDX are westerly. And, that little V at the bottom right of the Portland control area is where we used to live.
I saw the videos that Jimmy from Jimmy's World posted about the 421 he just acquired. The list of repair items just to get it to the first test flight was about 10 feet long. He wisely had the twin Cessna shop complete the test flight, and of course, it wasn't 100% ready to go even after that. Like you mentioned, it takes a large amount of money, and, more importantly, a large amount of proficiency to safely operate these complex twins.
It looks like the N421's are a money pit. I wonder who's paying for all the repairs. On Jimmy's World he flipped the navigation computer from a 310. His last video shows him working on the magnetoes. VMC?
It's not an airplane for the complacent or the lazy or the tired, and recurrent training is a must. With those large props with centerlines so far out from the CG you have to be real quick when an engine quits. Like muscle memory and strict checklist running, and forget about comfort or altitude. Speed kills.
I sincerely worry that we will hear his name on this channel before long. Buying and "restoring" old planes is good for views, but inherently not a terribly prudent thing to do unless you are very careful.
@@josephoberlander Agreed. Hope Jimmy watches Juan.
Jason on Rebuild Rescue is working on just such an aircraft, and I pray that he will watch your reviews and contemplate everything he is doing to make that machine as airworthy as possible.
As someone who lives near a small airport with planes constantly flying directly over my neighborhood, the prospect of a plane crashing into my house always worries me.
My first test flight as an A&P/avionics tech was on a 421C. Did a full install of a Garmin G600TXi and GFC600 autopilot. I feel for the folks who were in this aircraft…it’s heartbreaking.
This explains why the lights were flickering at that time at my place in downtown Portland. Poor souls.
Brave folks living in downtown PDX...
Yikes
We had unusual flickering at our place today, too, in Tigard. Not sure if related.
They were flicking near the Portland airport too.
So many questions...RIP
Thx Juan
Years ago I flew a piper Arrow 4 with an autopilot that had been placarded INOP. Unfortunately, the maintenance dept did not pull POWER from the unit, just put the sticker on it. the control head was near my left knee as I was flying, and at some point i must have bumped it and activated it. My CFII and I had no idea what the heck was wrong with the plane, never suspected the autopilot since placarded INOP means power disconnected, or is supposed to. Took two of us to fight the malfunctioning autopilot but we landed it safely and figured out what happened after the control issues persisted on the ground clear of the runway, but disappeared when we turned off the master.
Given the radio issues on the 421C.. I'm wondering now if something similar happened here; an electrical fault in the avionics causing a runaway autopilot, single pilot not able to diagnose and find/pull the CB in time, and lost control of the aircraft? Just a guess at this point but I can see it being plausible. Thanks for the video, Juan, very curious to see what the NTSB finds on this one.
Saw the news yesterday, as someone who flies out of TTD this hits home. I flew today and heard some conversations speculating on the cause or what could have led to the crash. Like others have said, the accident aircraft wasn't one that was recognized around the airport so I wonder if it had flown in to get mx or repairs done. When I'm in a 172 or 152 I'm at 1000 feet for the pattern, definitely not 1700. This aircraft's downwind looks really wide too, that stuck out to me.
Thanks for a good report. I noticed there was a lot of confusion early on. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor, maybe they should have waited for a better time to fly? Condolences to family and friends. RIP.
Some poor resident in own home killed because of this, as well as all the families that lost their home. It will be interesting to see what mx was done, and by whom
Yea, very sad. That resident probably didn't even know what was happening with the ever increasing sound of the airplane as it approached his home and just sudden explosion of everything around him. You're not safe in your own home, minding your own business. Maybe there needs to be a 3-mile exclusion zone for residential and non aviation related commercial properties around airports. Yes, I know, good luck with that.
There have been a couple of post-MX twin-engine fatals caused by the elevator trim tab being hooked up backwards, don't know that's possible on this plane though. If so, it's almost impossible to detect on the ground unless one is aware of the issue and unless one does a very careful and thoughtful control check.
That's interesting as I had a very tough instructor who told me to always treat the trim tab as a control surface and never pre-flight without physically checking it by moving trim in one direction and making sure that's exactly how the trim tab was supposed to move. In over 4800 hours commercial fixed and rotary... owning 5 planes and participating in GA I have never known a pilot to check their trim tab.
@@mynosycat As an A&P for over 40 years and a pilot, I'm always amazed at how people think "tab up=elevator up=nose up."
When I was flying, I always ran the trim a bit - but when flying my own plane, knowing it had no maintenance in the area, I didn't bother to check which way the tab was moving. Had a cable been replaced, I would have checked it about six times before I let anyone fly it. Control surfaces are THE most important part of any aircraft.
@@chipsawdust5816 I did not mean to imply the trim tab would move in the "same" direction but move in the "right" direction... poor wording on my part.
@@mynosycat No I got your wording - I was talking about many people, especially green mechanics who don't think things through. I believe all mechanics should at least be student pilots - it helps them to realize what it's like to have your ass 5000 feet up :)
@@chipsawdust5816 Yeah it can be counter-intuitive. I like to think of the trim tab as an elevator for the elevator. Tab up makes the "nose" of the elevator go up.
Thanks for the report Juan. Troutdale is about 10 mi. north of here. News reports yesterday left the impression it was a single engine plane.
It seems like there should always be at least two in the tower. What if the sole person has a medical emergency. Condolences for all impacted with this accident!
thankful for your professional delivery of these tragic events. Always lessons to be learned in each of them.
RIP to all lost today. Saw this prompt from my NTSB feed earlier today..
My flying began at Montgomery Orange County airport in New York state. I also flew many times to other locations in upstate NY. Never did I encounter a rude sounding controller even when I flew to Teterboro airport in New Jersey.
NY (LI-based) myself, 30 years. 'They' are out there, believe me.