I'm a massive, massive fan of French music, French opera, well, everything French & France! I love them all, though Lully, Charpentier & Rameau, especially. But, I also understand your point as the King's choice & decision made Lully the most dominant, prevalent & well known of the composers at that time & to some people who aren't so acquainted with France & this style of music, still to this day. I love them all, it's hard for me to opt for a favourite! Baroque is my preferred style & I think their (France's) music was & still is outstanding & so beautiful! Louis XIV in his later years however, became more religious, especially after the passing of his wife & so, found Lully's music & operas to be too extravagant & distasteful. He then preferred & opted for Charpentier & his music, much to Lully's sadness & dismay. Although, the people of France wasn't as sure as their King & they found Lully's music to Charpentier's, more preferable & took a while for them to warm to music other than Lully's! Lully still remained a very loyal subject & 'fan' of Louis' & It was, whilst conducting a 'Te Deum' celebrating the King's successful surgery, poor Lully was to meet his painful, premature, untimely, fate. Cambert - a rival of Lully, did compose lovely music & was still, very talented! It's thanks to Lully though, that we have Muffat & his music, as he schooled him & took him under his wing. Rameau, brought with him a new era & style of French Baroque & was one of Louis XV's most favourite of composers. It again, took a good while for the people of France to now, warm to his music, I find this surprising. Now began the music of other composers such as Mondonville & Couperin. Another marvelous composer of them all, was Nivers. His sacred music for the organ is so breathtaking. God bless France, her late monarchy, regency, people, composers & thank God & all above for their talent & music!
It's been a while since I got interested in this opera after watching Le Roi danse, but it still gets to me that Que voyez-vous, mes yeux is sung by a man, in this case even one with a nasal voice. Bloody shame that only parts of the score have survived, would be so great is someone would stumble over the full work in an old attic or cellar one day.
Can one really say that Lully invented the french opera style? Anyhow, it was a big error of Louis XIV to let Lully have his way to be the only opera composer for such a long time. Now we only have Cambert and Charpentiers chamber and church operas.
Yes, we can say it. If you listen well, there are not actual recitatives in this opera, or very few (the only one that I could call so is the Beroe's one (31:33) (the others aren't more recitatives than any "air de cour"), but he is very short, and can't be compared to the Lully's long recative scenes). And recitatives are one of the most important thing in the Lully's operas. The importance of recitatives is the main innovation of Lully in French opera and they are what made French opera so great, making it more dramatic, whereas the Cambert's Pomone is simply a lovely "divertissement". The Charpentier composed his chamber operas after that Lully had composed his first ones (Cadmus et Hermione, Alceste ou le Triomphe d'Alcide, Thésée and Atys)
But even if I find the Lully's opera great, I also think that it would be good if Louis XIV hadn't let Lully being the only opera composer, the French opera of this period would be more varied. But that we could have opera of better composers than Lully, doesn't mean that the Lully's ones aren't masterpieces. It just means that we could have other masterpieces, maybe better than the Lully's opera but, as I said: it's not because one work is better than an other that the other is a bad work.
It's not really a "tragédie en musique" (the first is Lully's Cadmus et Hermione), it's a "Pastorale" (like Lully's Les Fêtes de l'Amour et de Bacchus and Acis et Galatée), less serious genre with lighter subjects. I don't think than this work can match the Italian opera of the same period like the Cavalli's ones.
But yes, it's a very important musical piece for the French music history. It's the oldest French opera surviving and the first opera which had some success in France. And this success lead to the creation of the French opera school (with Lully). It's not clear if it's actually the first French opera because other entirely sung French plays had been composed before Pomone (like Cambert's Pastorale d'Issy) but it seems that they are lost.
Can someone point out what the last bit is? There is an extended bit of dialogue that I am not sure is in the libretto? I don't speak a word of french, so I do apologise if it turns out to be a logical subject they are talking about that I'm missing. Also, as this is the only recording I was able to find, is this the full production? Is this the full opera or is it a medley of the best bits? Many thanks and best wishes.
The fragment of this opera that we have stops here. The dialogue was invented by Hugo Reyne. In this dialogue, the comedians which created this opera are complaining. This dialogue presents the (mainly financial) difficulties which lead the Perrin and Cambert opera project to be a failure, and how Lully bought there opera privilege. On the CD, this dialogue makes a transition between this opera and the first Lully's "opera" (if we could call this patchwork an opera): "Les Fêtes de l'hymen et de Bacchus".
This is the only complete recording of this opera which exist. The original opera had 5 acts with prologue, but only the prologue, the first act and the beginning of the 2nd are still existing nowadays.
I'm a massive, massive fan of French music, French opera, well, everything French & France! I love them all, though Lully, Charpentier & Rameau, especially. But, I also understand your point as the King's choice & decision made Lully the most dominant, prevalent & well known of the composers at that time & to some people who aren't so acquainted with France & this style of music, still to this day. I love them all, it's hard for me to opt for a favourite! Baroque is my preferred style & I think their (France's) music was & still is outstanding & so beautiful!
Louis XIV in his later years however, became more religious, especially after the passing of his wife & so, found Lully's music & operas to be too extravagant & distasteful. He then preferred & opted for Charpentier & his music, much to Lully's sadness & dismay. Although, the people of France wasn't as sure as their King & they found Lully's music to Charpentier's, more preferable & took a while for them to warm to music other than Lully's! Lully still remained a very loyal subject & 'fan' of Louis' & It was, whilst conducting a 'Te Deum' celebrating the King's successful surgery, poor Lully was to meet his painful, premature, untimely, fate.
Cambert - a rival of Lully, did compose lovely music & was still, very talented!
It's thanks to Lully though, that we have Muffat & his music, as he schooled him & took him under his wing.
Rameau, brought with him a new era & style of French Baroque & was one of Louis XV's most favourite of composers. It again, took a good while for the people of France to now, warm to his music, I find this surprising. Now began the music of other composers such as Mondonville & Couperin. Another marvelous composer of them all, was Nivers. His sacred music for the organ is so breathtaking.
God bless France, her late monarchy, regency, people, composers & thank God & all above for their talent & music!
This suddenly reminds me of the Film "The King Dances" (2000) by Gerard Corbiau...
My God, this film is brilliant. I love it so much, especially well played by the 2 main leads, Louis & Lully. One of THE BEST films by far for me!
Wonderful work !
It's been a while since I got interested in this opera after watching Le Roi danse, but it still gets to me that Que voyez-vous, mes yeux is sung by a man, in this case even one with a nasal voice. Bloody shame that only parts of the score have survived, would be so great is someone would stumble over the full work in an old attic or cellar one day.
Magnifiquement interprété par Hugo Reyne et la simphonie du marais .
Reverra t ' on la simphonie du marais ......un jour?
Can one really say that Lully invented the french opera style? Anyhow, it was a big error of Louis XIV to let Lully have his way to be the only opera composer for such a long time. Now we only have Cambert and Charpentiers chamber and church operas.
Anders Bertilsson You are right! A very interesting point!
Towards Lully's death the King took away his privileges because of his dissolute life.
Yes, we can say it. If you listen well, there are not actual recitatives in this opera, or very few (the only one that I could call so is the Beroe's one (31:33) (the others aren't more recitatives than any "air de cour"), but he is very short, and can't be compared to the Lully's long recative scenes). And recitatives are one of the most important thing in the Lully's operas. The importance of recitatives is the main innovation of Lully in French opera and they are what made French opera so great, making it more dramatic, whereas the Cambert's Pomone is simply a lovely "divertissement".
The Charpentier composed his chamber operas after that Lully had composed his first ones (Cadmus et Hermione, Alceste ou le Triomphe d'Alcide, Thésée and Atys)
But even if I find the Lully's opera great, I also think that it would be good if Louis XIV hadn't let Lully being the only opera composer, the French opera of this period would be more varied.
But that we could have opera of better composers than Lully, doesn't mean that the Lully's ones aren't masterpieces. It just means that we could have other masterpieces, maybe better than the Lully's opera but, as I said: it's not because one work is better than an other that the other is a bad work.
@@alexanderp3689 Lully never lost his privilege, he only lost the king's interest and his favor.
wow, you have all of it! great piece, very important for France music, first serious "tragédie en music" to match Italian opera
It's not really a "tragédie en musique" (the first is Lully's Cadmus et Hermione), it's a "Pastorale" (like Lully's Les Fêtes de l'Amour et de Bacchus and Acis et Galatée), less serious genre with lighter subjects. I don't think than this work can match the Italian opera of the same period like the Cavalli's ones.
But yes, it's a very important musical piece for the French music history. It's the oldest French opera surviving and the first opera which had some success in France. And this success lead to the creation of the French opera school (with Lully). It's not clear if it's actually the first French opera because other entirely sung French plays had been composed before Pomone (like Cambert's Pastorale d'Issy) but it seems that they are lost.
Does anyone have access to the words? Particularly an English translation? Thank you!
Can someone point out what the last bit is? There is an extended bit of dialogue that I am not sure is in the libretto? I don't speak a word of french, so I do apologise if it turns out to be a logical subject they are talking about that I'm missing. Also, as this is the only recording I was able to find, is this the full production? Is this the full opera or is it a medley of the best bits?
Many thanks and best wishes.
Dos actos de un total de cinco
The fragment of this opera that we have stops here. The dialogue was invented by Hugo Reyne. In this dialogue, the comedians which created this opera are complaining. This dialogue presents the (mainly financial) difficulties which lead the Perrin and Cambert opera project to be a failure, and how Lully bought there opera privilege. On the CD, this dialogue makes a transition between this opera and the first Lully's "opera" (if we could call this patchwork an opera): "Les Fêtes de l'hymen et de Bacchus".
This is the only complete recording of this opera which exist. The original opera had 5 acts with prologue, but only the prologue, the first act and the beginning of the 2nd are still existing nowadays.
Ho pétard, que c'est bon d'entendre cette oeuvre, la première que j'ai jouée !