I was working in the engine room of the Roger Blough when the decision was made to pull one of those. I can still see all the tools shaking and rattling on the bulkheads.
That was a sailboat hailing the PRT wondering if they should pass in front or astern of the ship. They saw us stop and didn't know what we were doing. Capt Dayton had a funny exchange with him after the sailboat asked if we needed a tow.
I went to Sault Ste Marie a couple of weeks ago and the "Tregurtha" was waiting to lock through. That ship is a MONSTER. It isn't for nothing she's called the Queen!
7/10 of a mile seems like a remarkably short stopping distance. In the book "Supership", about very large and ultra large crude carriers, (VLCC's and ULCC's) the author stated that it takes a fully loaded ULCC, in neutral current and wind, eight miles to go from full speed ahead to dead stop. The author was making the point that VLCC's and ULCC's are dangerously under-powered. Horsepower is stopping power. Likely the tanker having a smaller, relative to ship size, fixed blade propellor has something to do with the difference as well.
An undersized low-speed engine that needs to be stopped and manually reversed due to a fixed-pitch prop. Controllable-pitch props are much better in this regard because they allow the engines to go to full astern without the need to reverse the shaft's rotation. Fixed-pitch props are OK on vessels with electric propulsion since electric motors can reverse direction almost immediately.
Most modern chart plotters have the ability to select MPH, Knts or K/h. If IIRC they use MPH on the Hreat Lakes, althougg I haven't sailed there since 2003
Very interesting. She stops pretty fast. You probably don't want to cut across her bow in a sailboat though. :) I'd like to see a maximum rate turn. That would be interesting.
I was on CGC Morgenthau in the mid 1970's, she had 2 Fairbanks Morse diesels that had 3500shp each and 2 Pratt and Whitney FT 4 gas turbines that had 18000shp each. Morganthau was 378 ft long and weighed about 3000 tons full load. A flank bell on the turbines would give a max available speed of 29 kts. We had 2- 13 ft controllable pitch props and from a flank bell we could stop in about 2 ships lengths, from dead in the water we could get to 29 knots in a just less than a minute. It was fun to watch and experience but it about deafened us in sonar. Like you are doing here we also shook like a wet dawg, fun times!
we did a crash stop as one of the acceptance trials when we repowered CGC Mariposa with EMDs at Bay ship back in 90. Talk about shake rattle and roll - glad it was diesel electric! Yup - kicks up the engineers blood pressure just a bit.... If I remember right we stopped in 3/10.
I love watching this video. I’ve watched it a few times now lol Hope no one was downstairs eating lol. The cook was probably wearing ear plugs with all the pots and pans down there Lol Great video and great practice run captain and crew. Thank you for sharing this.
2:30 "The old saying is when the wash gets past your chocks, you're stopped. ' Did I hear him right? You learn something new every day. . . then forget it by lunch. . . .
They're called "emergency crash back". In Navy we will do these regularly. The propellers are what they call a "CRPP" system(controllable reverse pitch propeller). The ship is "supposed" to be able to go from full throttle forward to full throttle back in 1 1/2 lengths of the ship. I was stationed on a destroyer and we had fun with 80,000 shaft horsepower. We could go from standstill to 35+ nmph in less than 2 minutes and pull a crash back in less than the required length.. Fair winds and happy sailing... USS Conolly DD979 RIP...
I would assume so. By law, all ships have to have a means for the engine room to take local control of the props should the modern systems fail, which necessitates the need for an EOT/Chadburn on the bridge. By the apparent age of the units, I'd guess this ship was retrofitted with controllable-pitch propellers later on, and the Chadburns are the original units the ship was fitted with.
Maybe check the seals in the master brake cylinder ... something leaking ... maybe the brake pads are worn out ... something's definitely wrong, take it to a brake shop and see what they say ...
So I just watched a video of a destroyer doing crash back and the algorithm gave me this. 30kts to 0kts in 20 seconds to 12kts to 0kts in 8 minutes. OK then.
Bow thrusters on ships like that (if they even have them) are mounted perpendicular to the keel, in the hull. Completely useless for braking, unless the intention is to do a crash-turn - which is where instead of relying on the thrust of the main engines alone, a hard turn is initiated to help bleed off momentum. Even then, such a turn would be initiated by the rudder, not the bow thrusters, as the thrusters aren't usually effective when the vessel is moving at speed. In addition, bow thrusters are nothing compared to the power of the main engines. You need a lot less power to nudge the bow of a ship over a bit at low speed than you do to propel the whole ship through the water. So, to make a long story short, no. ...at least not under normal circumstances.
One of the biggest regrets of my life was changing my mind about joining the Merchant Marine. I guess in my defense at that time the economy was in the dumps and I already had a good job...............but still............
@@markturner4219 I work on the great lakes, though not on a freighter - we use nautical miles. Maybe it's an American thing - they like to be different!
@@markturner4219 my apologies, I failed to note the original comment related specifically to speed - but what good is using 'knots' if you are not also using nautical miles?
Just watched this captain get stuck in the ice because he did not want to wait a few days in port, his engineer had a break in schedule because the engines were overhauled. This captain totally disregarded that and slammed his ship in the ice so often that it created a long leak in the bow. All this within 12 miles of the port he just left. How does this man stay in charge of this ship? I don't get it. This was on Smithsonian Mighty Ships
Captain Dayton must be doing something right he's the captain of the biggest ship on the lakes I seen that time with the ice they were the first ship out and the ice breakers didn't cut a wide enough channel for the 100ft+ wide ship I'm sure one of the reasons they had to leave early was because the power stations need the coal after the long winter of no deliverys
The captain always has the final say. If the company doesn't like it, they fire him. One thing is certain, everyday they aren't moving is 30 - 40 K in wages paid and stores used whether they are sailing or not. Time is money and captains KNOW this.
I know some crew that were on there for that and the show was edited and exaggerated for entertainment purposes. Any captain wouldn't take the risk of actually damaging newly installed engines especially on the highest profile ship on the great lakes. Captain Dayton was extremely highly regarded in great lake circles and earned his spot on the Tregurtha. Every actual mishap like the 2 groundings in recent years happened when a relief skipper was aboard. Interlake would call him back early off of vacation to deal with getting the Tregurtha back to the shipyard safely. That show was all Hollywood
Its all fun and games until he rips a properllor off the shaft or cracks a shaft or engine mount due to the stresses. The captain thinks its a joke... I bet the ship owners are not impressed. I am thinking this guy has been relieved since he ran the ship aground just a short time later.....
I'd rather the props snap off on a test than in a real life situation. plus it's not like the designers of the boat are going to slap on something like that without it being tested...
I would serve under that skipper (Capt. Dayton) any day of the week! his crews love working under him--you can see it. He will never be relieved of his command----ever! He knows exactly what he is doing!
I was working in the engine room of the Roger Blough when the decision was made to pull one of those. I can still see all the tools shaking and rattling on the bulkheads.
That was a sailboat hailing the PRT wondering if they should pass in front or astern of the ship. They saw us stop and didn't know what we were doing. Capt Dayton had a funny exchange with him after the sailboat asked if we needed a tow.
That would have been hilarious to hear the exchange
I went to Sault Ste Marie a couple of weeks ago and the "Tregurtha" was waiting to lock through. That ship is a MONSTER. It isn't for nothing she's called the Queen!
@@guodzillakaiju5683 Is the Tregurtha confined to the great lakes, due to her size? Or can she navigate the canal system to the St Lawrence Seaway?
@@rollydoucet8909 I'm afraid I have no idea. I'm guessing perhaps she can, but being a laker she really has no need to.
@@guodzillakaiju5683 The reason I ask is because the canal system is rather limited to certain size ships, yet some of the lakers are huge.
Only 7 tenths of s mile to stop. That's pretty good!
Traveller except when something is 6/10 of a mile in front of you.
...that’s why with ships...Might means Right ...I think...
You’ll lose your mind when you find out how far a fast moving freight train takes to stop in emergency.
7/10 of a mile seems like a remarkably short stopping distance. In the book "Supership", about very large and ultra large crude carriers, (VLCC's and ULCC's) the author stated that it takes a fully loaded ULCC, in neutral current and wind, eight miles to go from full speed ahead to dead stop. The author was making the point that VLCC's and ULCC's are dangerously under-powered. Horsepower is stopping power. Likely the tanker having a smaller, relative to ship size, fixed blade propellor has something to do with the difference as well.
An undersized low-speed engine that needs to be stopped and manually reversed due to a fixed-pitch prop.
Controllable-pitch props are much better in this regard because they allow the engines to go to full astern without the need to reverse the shaft's rotation.
Fixed-pitch props are OK on vessels with electric propulsion since electric motors can reverse direction almost immediately.
@@electric7487 Thank you. I hadn’t thought about a variable pitch prop.
Very informative video. I was surprised to see that on chart plotter speed is indicated in mph units instead knots. Keep up the good work!
Most modern chart plotters have the ability to select MPH, Knts or K/h. If IIRC they use MPH on the Hreat Lakes, althougg I haven't sailed there since 2003
@@markturner4219that was not a modern bit kit even 11 years ago and still using mph for speed makes no sense for navigation.
If it were sea miles it made no difference, 1 knot is the same as one sea mile.
Very interesting. She stops pretty fast. You probably don't want to cut across her bow in a sailboat though. :)
I'd like to see a maximum rate turn. That would be interesting.
I was on CGC Morgenthau in the mid 1970's, she had 2 Fairbanks Morse diesels that had 3500shp each and 2 Pratt and Whitney FT 4 gas turbines that had 18000shp each. Morganthau was 378 ft long and weighed about 3000 tons full load. A flank bell on the turbines would give a max available speed of 29 kts. We had 2- 13 ft controllable pitch props and from a flank bell we could stop in about 2 ships lengths, from dead in the water we could get to 29 knots in a just less than a minute. It was fun to watch and experience but it about deafened us in sonar. Like you are doing here we also shook like a wet dawg, fun times!
Here's another Crash Stop Test! - ua-cam.com/video/Dm3-DJ2Drrc/v-deo.html
we did a crash stop as one of the acceptance trials when we repowered CGC Mariposa with EMDs at Bay ship back in 90. Talk about shake rattle and roll - glad it was diesel electric! Yup - kicks up the engineers blood pressure just a bit.... If I remember right we stopped in 3/10.
I'm quite honestly shocked that it took less than 10 minutes to bring that massive ship to a stop
They work in MPH instead of knots on the Great Lakes and Western Rivers
Yeah, but then the AIS shows Knots lol.
Awesome Video! Always wondered how the crash stops were conducted.
The ship obviously didn't like this!
I would have thought a lot more than .7 of a mile would be needed. That's putting a lot of torque stress on the shafts and props I would think.
I love watching this video. I’ve watched it a few times now lol Hope no one was downstairs eating lol. The cook was probably wearing ear plugs with all the pots and pans down there Lol Great video and great practice run captain and crew. Thank you for sharing this.
Your video work is the very best I have ever seen !
SBF
This has been an interesting series of videos. Wish I could of heard more of the conversations about the engines and controls.
i think that is awesome for a ship that big to stop that quick
2:30 "The old saying is when the wash gets past your chocks, you're stopped. ' Did I hear him right?
You learn something new every day. . . then forget it by lunch. . . .
That explains my password issues...
Hell she stops better than my old clapped out Jeep!
🤣
Love the bobblehead girl doing a dance!💃😁
Hell, I wasn’t aware that the big freighters didn’t have forward/reverse transmissions. Interesting how it works though!
Some old ships have NO transmissions. They start and stop engines for forward/ reverse, steam or diesel.
They're called "emergency crash back". In Navy we will do these regularly. The propellers are what they call a "CRPP" system(controllable reverse pitch propeller).
The ship is "supposed" to be able to go from full throttle forward to full throttle back in 1 1/2 lengths of the ship.
I was stationed on a destroyer and we had fun with 80,000 shaft horsepower.
We could go from standstill to 35+ nmph in less than 2 minutes and pull a crash back in less than the required length..
Fair winds and happy sailing...
USS Conolly DD979
RIP...
This gives me as whole new perspective on her everytime I watch her go through marine city or marysville when over there for dinner,stay safe👍👍
Junction Buoy?
@@SteamCrane kim does an awesome job at buey, also try voyager , anchor point, or mc fish company,
@@billhazard4946 Haven't been to J.B. in many years, glad to hear it's still good. We're hundreds of miles away.
Great video, adding graphics is great..insider view much appreciated
you should of record the conversation at the end! hoping to work on one next summer
Wow 🤩!!! Very cool !!! Love this ❤️🚢👍
When the boat is a-rockin, don't bother knocking.
For as many UA-cam videos I've seen on the Mr "MV Paul R Tregutha" I could drive this mother ship anywhere!
Good way to mix your drink.
So many questions! I want to learn more! And get back to Superior sometime soon...
A bobblehead's paradise on the bridge.
1120 meters for the rest of the world
Nice vid and emergency stop test. But I was always wondering what purpose is the long stepladder serves an great lakes bulkers?
I see an old-fashioned chadburn there. Is that for backup in-case the modern electronic controls fail?
I would assume so. By law, all ships have to have a means for the engine room to take local control of the props should the modern systems fail, which necessitates the need for an EOT/Chadburn on the bridge. By the apparent age of the units, I'd guess this ship was retrofitted with controllable-pitch propellers later on, and the Chadburns are the original units the ship was fitted with.
@@Shipwright1918 Also when the has a cpp, a "chadburn" is still required.
That was cool really cool, thankyou Captain Bob good think to see ,
Interesting. How long does it take to coast to a stop with engines off from the same speed?
Oh maybe 30 miles and like an hour or so;
Maybe check the seals in the master brake cylinder ... something leaking ... maybe the brake pads are worn out ... something's definitely wrong, take it to a brake shop and see what they say ...
Yes, put it up on the hydraulic car lift.
So I just watched a video of a destroyer doing crash back and the algorithm gave me this. 30kts to 0kts in 20 seconds to 12kts to 0kts in 8 minutes. OK then.
That's like comparing the stopping distance of a sports car to a semi truck...
@@gailgrove Wasn’t making a comparison between ships, I was comparing videos being fed to me by the almighty algorithm.
Biggest ship on the great lakes.
Must be hard on the thrust bearing
My thought as well, a thing to test once maybe.
is this how they check for loose rivets and bolts?
Mighty Ships did a great show on the Tregurtha,I liked the Captain,seems like a cool guy.
Lot of CRTs in there. When were the navigation electronics last updated?
Could bow thrusters some day be used be used for additional braking?
Bow thrusters on ships like that (if they even have them) are mounted perpendicular to the keel, in the hull. Completely useless for braking, unless the intention is to do a crash-turn - which is where instead of relying on the thrust of the main engines alone, a hard turn is initiated to help bleed off momentum. Even then, such a turn would be initiated by the rudder, not the bow thrusters, as the thrusters aren't usually effective when the vessel is moving at speed. In addition, bow thrusters are nothing compared to the power of the main engines. You need a lot less power to nudge the bow of a ship over a bit at low speed than you do to propel the whole ship through the water. So, to make a long story short, no. ...at least not under normal circumstances.
PRT has 2 bow thrusters (1500 hp each) and I would say they’re no good whatsoever to slow her down.
What is a crash stop test mean exactly ?
It means put the brakes thru the floor right now. It may take more than a mile to stop..
Basically like throwing your car into reverse from drive at highway speed. 😎
Was it 7 tenths of a statute or nautical mile?
0:03 is bubbles da on that boat?
what was the shaking that produced by?
The hydraulics of the water fighting the propeller.
@@kenlee-97 It is called cavitation
I'd guess from hydrodynamics, or cavitation as mentioned above. Its a whole lotta boat to slow down while loaded.
love the hula girl
I noticed at the end of the video, you could hear someone calling the Tregurtha on the radio. What did they say?
Ironically, this was next in my feed. . . are they the same boat?
ua-cam.com/video/wGE2CPFsnrQ/v-deo.html
That thing needs antilock brakes.
7/10 of a mile to a dead stop? that's only a little over 4 lengths of the boat.
One of the biggest regrets of my life was changing my mind about joining the Merchant Marine. I guess in my defense at that time the economy was in the dumps and I already had a good job...............but still............
How's that violence on the shaft bearings
Why is the velocity messured in mph (according to the display on the radarscreen) and not knots?
They don't use port and starboard either .... left and right ..lol.
IIRC mph is the standard unit on the Great Lakes.
@@markturner4219 I work on the great lakes, though not on a freighter - we use nautical miles. Maybe it's an American thing - they like to be different!
@@j.richard2059 You mean knots, like the rest of the maritime worl, so 'knot' different after all ;-)
@@markturner4219 my apologies, I failed to note the original comment related specifically to speed - but what good is using 'knots' if you are not also using nautical miles?
Practicing for Rock Cut I see....
Is there competition amongst Captains of different ships to cross a certain lake in the fastest time with the same cargo weight ?
Watch "reckless great lakes freighter nearly causes a do it yourself shipwreck" here on YT, it explains everything.
1:57 the hula dancer enjoyed it 😁
Just watched this captain get stuck in the ice because he did not want to wait a few days in port, his engineer had a break in schedule because the engines were overhauled. This captain totally disregarded that and slammed his ship in the ice so often that it created a long leak in the bow. All this within 12 miles of the port he just left. How does this man stay in charge of this ship? I don't get it. This was on Smithsonian Mighty Ships
Captain Dayton must be doing something right he's the captain of the biggest ship on the lakes I seen that time with the ice they were the first ship out and the ice breakers didn't cut a wide enough channel for the 100ft+ wide ship I'm sure one of the reasons they had to leave early was because the power stations need the coal after the long winter of no deliverys
The Captain doesnt decide when they leave winter lay up.
The captain always has the final say. If the company doesn't like it, they fire him. One thing is certain, everyday they aren't moving is 30 - 40 K in wages paid and stores used whether they are sailing or not. Time is money and captains KNOW this.
I know some crew that were on there for that and the show was edited and exaggerated for entertainment purposes. Any captain wouldn't take the risk of actually damaging newly installed engines especially on the highest profile ship on the great lakes. Captain Dayton was extremely highly regarded in great lake circles and earned his spot on the Tregurtha. Every actual mishap like the 2 groundings in recent years happened when a relief skipper was aboard. Interlake would call him back early off of vacation to deal with getting the Tregurtha back to the shipyard safely. That show was all Hollywood
Suggest avoiding TV "reality" shows and go to the people who know.
LOL now try going from 0 to 60 see what she can do.😅⛴
🤣🤣🤣
Well at least you wont go through the windscreen.
Interesting!!!
That’s my uncle!
Captain Dayton is cool cool
Engine room, Bridge, ALL AHEAD ASTERN !!! 😜
Captain Cowboy
Over a KM to stop. 8 minutes is sex and a nap for me.
Hey Doll your shaking like a leaf !!!!
Wow
0:48- *ears explode*
Think this is sluggish? Try it with a supertanker... :-)
Its all fun and games until he rips a properllor off the shaft or cracks a shaft or engine mount due to the stresses. The captain thinks its a joke... I bet the ship owners are not impressed. I am thinking this guy has been relieved since he ran the ship aground just a short time later.....
+Hugh Ghazz This seems to be a planned and probably required test. One they do yearly, perhaps.
They would never relieve Dayton.
Let's learn the facts first before making comments....... Also notice that the depth shows as 209 ft. on the screen. He's not going run aground!
I'd rather the props snap off on a test than in a real life situation. plus it's not like the designers of the boat are going to slap on something like that without it being tested...
I would serve under that skipper (Capt. Dayton) any day of the week! his crews love working under him--you can see it. He will never be relieved of his command----ever! He knows exactly what he is doing!