Understanding Allan Holdsworth's Scale Symbols and Scale Chart
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- Опубліковано 27 бер 2019
- Barry Harris' "Diminish 6th" scale video:
• 6th dim scale (long ex...
EDIT The lead sheet I put up at 25:22 turns out to be from Letters of Marque, and not Texas (although the information about those symbols is correct). I had found that lead sheet and it was labeled as Texas, but after learning the solo section for my Texas lesson video, I noticed that sheet wasn't right. Thank you to Livio Lamonea for cracking the code!
Hey! I decided to do something a little different. Apologizes for the lighting and for some of the images being not very high quality, that's out of my control. I thought I'd tackle how to read Allan's symbols to give you a better understanding how to read his charts, and decoding this crazy table of scales!
Check out my book, Secrets: The Chords of Allan Holdsworth here:
www.amazon.com/dp/B08CRH9QTF
If you really dig these videos, drop me a like or a subscribe. Thanks!
Im really impressed that took over 15 months to finally get one thumbs down! Thanks for the support guys! :)
I'm new to your channel just this week and whoever gave you a thumbs down is insane. Or deaf. What amazing material you've put out and I'm just scratching the surface. Many thumbs up to all your content! Can't wait to really dig in
@@Retrograde6 Hah that stuff never bothers me. Ive seen thumbs down on videos of babies playing with puppies, so it means nothing. Thank you though!
F%$#%$# them. "What are you guys playing? I hate Jazz". You rock. Its awesome to see today's youth and older people analyzing Allan and putting it in lamens terms for us idiots.
Thank you!
...and this ladies and gentlemen is the answer to life, the universe and everything. ;-)
We’ll still be studying Allan in 200 years 😊
YOU CAN DO ALL THE STUDY YOU WANT TRYING TO CRACK SOME CODE OF ALLAN HOLDSWORTH,S PLAYING BUT IF YOU DON,T HAVE SOME LIFE LIVED OR DEPTH OF MUSIC TO SHOW LIFE LIVED YOU WILL HAVE STAND ON YOUR MOTHERS SHOULDERS TO SCRATCH THE SURFACE OF A ALLAN HOLDSWORTH . AND AS HOLDSWORTH SAID BE YOURSELF . AND AS BRUCE LEE SAID DON,T WASTE YOURSELF.
@@johndoe1765 we are what we listen like it or not. NO ONE learn all the way by it self or has a language of his own. Music is music. Allan studied so many musicians in his life , manny Russian guys Debussy, etc etc etc….. just like all of us are doing. Normally when someone says I’m not influenced by nobody,he usually lies or either he she sucks. Nobody can play like anyone else even if he tries .
This kid is doing a service by keeping alive the music of Allan IMO . That doesn’t mean that he will still here in his 100 years old analyzing Allan .
And I can’t promise you that Allan would tell you the same . Everyone has influences if not we would be at the Stone Age still
@@CrisOriol Wow it's 2022 don't get your pants in a bunch everythings alright.
@@johndoe1765 everything is alright ✌🏿 always was
I'm really sorry if hurt anyone with my comment.
Bro, I get sad everytime i watch a Holdsworth video. I had a beer with him a few years before he left us. Dude, words cannot explain how amazing of a person he really was... And how Hilarious he was. I wanted to talk to him about his music and just ended up talking about other things with him. I think he enjoyed that more than talking about music. Rip Allan
Thats great. I never met him but I imagine myself doing the same.
Flock at Kiesel Guitars says the exact same thing. So do many of my friends that knew him. R.I.P. to the greatest and kindest musician ever.
@@ifly65 wow! thanks for sharing that! Yeah, Allan was naturally hilarious. He could have quite easily been a stand-up comic.
Anyone who's a holdsworth and meshuggah fan is cool in my book. You have a new sub from me.
Thanks! I was into Meshuggah for about 10 years before Allan. Fredrik's playing was kinda like my 'training wheels' into getting into him haha. They're still my fav band today.
Subbed for the same reason
Thank you for unlocking the century puzzle
Best Holdsworth's tutorials ever....thank you very much
Thanks!!
Thanks for doing this Labor of Love. You're doing a true service to humanity!
Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Holdsworth family published Allan's books of charts, with the proceeds going to the fmaily. I am sure guitarists would study them for years to come and it would be a wonderful, if no doubt brain bending, window into the mind of the genius that was Allan Holdsworth.
That would be great! On the book I'm working on, i've been waiting for the family to get his estate in order and it looks like within a month it'll be finished. This would be something great to add! Id love to see a book on all his handwritten charts, and also all of his cataloged scaled with their symbols. The ones I did were by far the most common but there are plenty more.
Thaks for keeping Allan's legacy alive and relevant - great work my friend. Peace.
You don't know how long I've wanted to know this
Thank you! The only thing that's unfortunate is that I'm using material that I can find online. If I had more info I know I could do better and accurate videos!
Man, what a great service, what a great service... thanks a lot once again!
My pleasure, thank YOU for watching!
Great breakdown thank you
Thanks!
I've got AH's Uncommon Chord book, but this lesson is great for trying to read his charts.
Thank you! That book is good but not great, mostly with fingerings and stuff. I like to make this stuff as complete and accurate as I possibly can with the info I have available.
@ 09:44, that "pineapple" symbol kind of resembles the lowercase Greek letter, gamma, although the loop is fatter than how lowercase gamma is properly drawn.
My thought exactly
Great one mate 👍 The pineapple sign is the Greek letter Gamma.
Thanks! Yeah, people have told me haha
Thank You. Simply a fantastic video
Thanks for watching!
Great video 👍👍👍
Thanks so much for these videos.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching!
Wow!!!! I just subscribed!!!! Great Lesson!
Thank you so much!
Hey, that's Ron Jarzombic of "Watchtower" fame in the picture with Allan. He lives in my town. He's played with Marty Friedman on some projects. Look him up on UA-cam. His brother plays drums and played with various known artists.
I know of him. Hes fantastic! I have his solo record but I forgot the name but it was very fun and quirky. It bums me to see him with Marty ONLY because he reminds me of Jason. So seeing him there makes me think what could have been
BLOTTED SCIENCE!!!
Watchtower, yey!! I love Ron but i like Billy White (1rst guitar player of the band) most cause his lines are more jazzier holdsworthian like. There are some old pictures of him playing gigs wearing AH t-shirts. Lots of solos from the energetic dissassembly album have a very intreresting holdsworthian like feel IMHO.
@@franciscosotoalvial6747 Interesting! Ill have to check that out some time
Watchtower RULES! Or at least ruled...
you are doing gods work.
Just doing the best I can. Thank you!
Thanks for this insight to AH's genius.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, your videos are great.
I try my best, thank you so much for watching!
Excellent vid mate 👌
Thank you!
Thanks for this!
Thank you for watching!
Thank you!
Great video! Instant like for the shirt.
One of my favs!
Wow verry impresive bro thanks from philipines
Thanks for watching!
He views scales as members of a family and chords are members of that family he doesn't play chords he plays harmonized scales, 4 note per string and their interval permutations respectively
Pretty close, Charles. I think you meant to say he thinks of the notes in a chords as members of a family. But i wouldn't go as far to say that he doesn't play 'chords'. He certainly does, but the structure of the chords themselves are not tradition, or tertiary like normal western harmony. Kinda like how you can play 4 random white keys on the piano and think of it as part of C major, although they are chords themselves, just not easily named in a traditional way.
The symbol used for the bebop major scale is probably the lowercase Greek letter gamma.
Thank you! I learned that and put it in my newest video. 🙂
thanks
Hello, First of all, what a great video! So, it took me a minute to realize why Allan would 'center' a C major scale around D Dorian. Turns out that, by doing it that way, the scale becomes perfectly symmetrical.
You're absolutely right! I heard him say that in an interview, but I didn't understand it. I thought maybe he meant symmetrically on the finger board? But he meant WHWWWHW and when you light up those notes of Dorian in a circle with all 12 tones, you can see it. He also said it sounds like that would be the scale center, and not the Major scale.
It's the same thing
Great video! Crystal clear explanation of a very confusing topic, fantastic to see into Allan's mind through your lesson. Really great content, mate
Thank you! I was able to make a much longer 5hr video that includes this if you're still hungry for more haha
Awesome work as usual. You're doing a tribute to this genius. If I were him I would be very happy with what you're doing. Someone had to break it down so us mortals could understand it. It's like looking at Isaac Newtons work. It will never die. I hope this doesn't. It's just too cool.
Thank you so much! I agree, now its time to study now that he's gone.
That look on ron jarzombeks face is priceless
I appreciate you finding time to do this study when you’re not playing bass with Opeth
Hahahah thank you
@@TurrigenousOfficial seriously though, you explained this a lot better than AH could. Thanks
@@Meshuggapeth Thank you! Im sure he could have if he knew our traditional harmonic language. But his approach was just so simple, here are 4 notes, what scales work with it? In his case, for a specific type of chord, he had these 4 to choose from, which are really just variations of the main one. Simple.
Meshuggah t-shirt, explaining holdsworth to mortals. Right on dude!💪
2 of my favs 😁. Thanks for watching!
@@TurrigenousOfficial the pleasure is mine! Always interested in great analysation of the god himself… :)
Thanks! If you have 5 hours to spare I got a super detailed one that puts this to shame 😄
@@TurrigenousOfficial yup! Already watched it! :D
Oh wow! You're a real trooper then. Thank you so much! 🙂
Thanx.
Very interesting to see how he thought about scales and chords. Nice to see another metal fan appreciate Holdsworth, the Holdsworth influence on Frederik Thorendal of Meshuggah is pretty obvious.
Meshuggah had been my fan band for years now. Seen em 12 times since 2005
thank you so much for this! Mindblowing.
The answer used to be 42, but I’m not sure now…fantastic video. I admire your commitment 👋
Thank you! :)
Very interesting video! But to my ears, Alan Holdsworth sounds so outside? isn't it possible that he shifts his possibilities in the end? because this is still sounding a bit in..what about his F F#or better Gb G# A B C D Eb D# over what chords does he apply them? How does he get this weird sound? It sounds always if he shifts with 4ths as a standard ingredient and of course, his string skipping greater intervals...is a standard ingredient...I can hardly believe that this would be all ..But it makes a lot of sense because adding 4 scales at the same time..but still, those are 8 different notes like Cmaj with a +5 it is almost augmented scale I guess also the weird minor third in the harmonic minor is also standard in his sounds He loves it! Could you please make an even more revealing video about where he plays what I see the progression like 4 bars and than what he plays will reveal a lot...I did study conservatory classic and I am studying 25 years Jazz now...for me, it is easy to categorize...But this theory is really difficult to because you have to do it like more than you ever did,,(Holdsworthian Patterns, etc, without them it will bring you nowhere)
This video was really only to show what that chart meant, and translate it into 'normal' musician speak to get a better understanding of what AH does. This is not the be all-end all. These scales are just optional 'choices' over a very specific type of chord, or any type of chord that uses these notes. For outside playing AH employs HEAVY use of the 3rd Messiean Mode which he says in his REH video with lots of passing tones. The more of his lines you figure out, the more you'll understand it. I haven't learn many of his solos but only to figure out how he thinks harmonically over all over certain changes. So I dont think I can do a very strong video on it. Anyway I love the comment and discussion!
thx
Hi thanks for all your effort and Holdsworth analysis you are doing. Nevertheless I have a question to this video. How do I have to understand the scales of Alan. When he says he uses only these scales, does he mean he only use the scale type or also only this scale type AND only this tonality. So he only plays D Dorian no other dorian?
Thanks! When Allan uses scales, its because the chord behind it fits it. Other times you have a chord that fits multiple scales. I havent analyzed a lot of AH solos but MOST of the time he uses the simple major scale. But to him he sees it around Dorian since he relates everything to the closest minor. The scales i presented here are by FAR the ones I see the most in his charts. He also uses the 3rd Messien mode a LOT for outside playing. I dunno if this answers the Q or not. If it doesnt maybe try to word it again so I get a better idea what youre looking for.
@@TurrigenousOfficial Hi, this quite wraps it up. But I understand he does not use only the tonality D DOrian, he would use also F Dorian, A Dorian....
@@vizzo7 Yes this is correct. Dorian would just be the 'shape' and he would apply that shape, or interval structure to whatever key he wants to play in. If the chord belongs to A major, he would think B Dorian. If it belonged to F major, he would think G Dorian, etc.
I did subscribe to your channel definitely!!!
The harmonic minor scale does not have a flat 6, but rather a Major 7th in the aeolian mode.
It has both!
So as i understand it, only the modes of the Natural Major, Harmonic Major and Harmonic minor can be extracted out of the Major Diminished 6th scale. The modes of the Melodic minor cannot be extracted out of the Major Diminished 6th scale.
Yeah, basically. You can think of those 3 as 7 note versions of the 8 note Dim 6 scale.
Wow
Allan Holdsworth put tensor products on music, nice
Outstanding resource for Holdsworth chords and theory. I'd like to buy a copy of your book - is there a non-Kindle version I can purchase? I don't like buying Kindle books because you don't really own them - they are really just leased from Amazon, but I will gladly pay to have my own copy. If not, no worries - it's a steal at the price.
Thank you! You can email me at zombie.guitarist at yahoo
Have you ever thought about quantum gravity?
Too difficult to understand haha
i remember watching that video thinking yay im gonna learn some cool shit..then i watched it,kinda like your video
Haha well everything he said in the video is true. The concepts are very simple. The difficulty is memorizing and playing all these scales everwhere with ease. That he cant teach you
hello and thank you for this informative video ... tbo ... I'm a noob, I was just wondering if there are tabs someplace that go with your whiteboard explanations, that would be a really helpful for me
Thank you! Unfortunately this isnt really for beginners, more for advanced musicians. I would suggest reading up on the major scale and its modes, then reading up on other scales and its modes when youre comfortable with the major scale. Learn about Melodic Minor, Harmonic Minor and Harmonic Major. I dont think tabs would help as much as understanding its interval structure, etc.
@@TurrigenousOfficial thanks ... that was my thought ... I'm biting off a lot more then I can chew ... btw I'm watching your 3 sheets vid right now
@@ifoundthistoday Thanks! Those vids dont really rely on harmony so maybe you can find some cool chords
@@TurrigenousOfficial true, luckily I have longer fingers lol
@@ifoundthistoday youre so lucky!
That "pineapple" symbol is basically a lower case (Greek letter) gamma.
Oh nice! Thanks for the tip
It's not dissimilar to Pat Martino who also has his own diagrams and symbols. He basically sees the fretboard as a big Dorian scale then just 'converts' from the chord, so for an A7 chord play E Dorian. As Allan's system emphasises, the Melodic Minor is only 1 note different b7 Vs nat 7 so you can just weave them together. I was taught a similar system but using Lydian. Working on a book on it at the moment. All the best.
Interesting. Years ago I would have shunned this approach but now I've realized its the easiest and simplest way to do it if you're changing keys like crazy.
@@TurrigenousOfficial Yes, I think the main thing is to find a system and stick to it. Too many players/students jump ship when they hit that moment where they've just got to do some thinking and learning/ internalising.
@@personanongrata1308 I never really had anyone that was at this level that I could ask questions to. If I had to teach myself again id say learn the major scale in every possible way and not even think of modes. Modes are easier to think of as 'scalar shapes' depending where you are on the neck. Then after doing the major, adjusting that scale for melodic minor and do the same. I think youd get way more mileage and easier to switch keys quickly
Very interesting. I wish I came across this 50 years ago. :-) Thanks a lot. If I may add something. It made me wonder when he pointed out in an interview, that he relates all the scales he is using in the first place, to the range of his instrument, the guitar. From an analytical point of view this may seem irrelevant, but he didn't approach his playing from scholastic educational knowledge, but completely found his own language and symbolism. In that respect, it is probably important, if one tries to delve into Allan Holdsworth´s mind, to understand the way he would look at a scale. The first note of a dorian scale in C for example, for him, would be a f, in C# an e and so forth and he would build the scale from there.
Thank you! It certainly possible but I think for him it was more like a circle. An interval structure that has no real beginning or end, but to him, the scale sounds finished how we think of Dorian. Plus its also symmetrical with its whole and half steps. All chords to him were parts of a scale puzzle and what puzzle piece belongs to what picture. Such a simple concept!
@@TurrigenousOfficial Thanks a lot for answering. I agree, the symmetry of it is noticeable. I am totally coming from chords and their functionality, scales never grabbed me as much as a well laid out chord progression.. Obviously I was never in the league of an Allen Holdsworth, but of course appreciate him. Found him through Zappa really. Stay well during this terrible pandemic.
@@TurrigenousOfficial I find it amazing how he builds voicings and chords out of the scales he's using.
@@michaelmertens813 Thank you! Im doing fine here, same with you.
@@michaelmertens813 Yeah and I can't remember if I mentioned in this video but sometimes the scale choice isnt obvious. For example, if you have a maj7#11 you know what its gonna be. But if you have something like Dm to Em. Is he treating both as C major? Is it D Dorian to E Dorian? Is it D melodic minor to E Dorian? Etc. Im gonna do a video where I talk about that a bit. Thats why I wish I had more of his charts, to see how he heard the harmony. The only other way is to analyze his solos but sometimes there isn't enough 'info' to really figure out what he's thinking due to lack of different solos. For example Clown. Only on the record, so you only have one solo to try to get info from. Where as something like Letters of Marque is much easier cuz there are so many solos.
42
after watch this video，I have to say：harry barris rules！ thanks for your lesson
You are welcome!
1, 2, 3, #4, 5, 6, 7 is just a Lydian scale, 4th mode of Ionian. How is it Lydian minor ?
The 3rd is flattened, creating a minor 3rd. 1 2 b3 #4 5 6 7. It's the 4th mode of the Harmonic Major scale.
@@TurrigenousOfficial I see, thanks
Looks like a few pages from Allan's Yellow Pages from Hell!
Its like the musical answer to quatum theory or something like that…
Song at 11:26?
Hard Hat Area
Pinapple is greek letter gamma
Yes, thanks! Someone pointed that out to me.
0:55 where those crazy lines come from?
Oh wow I don't remember! I'm gonna have to open up the project file because I dont recognize it. Sounds like it's from a live recording
Found it! I was right, its from the live album "All Night Wrong!" Its the "Zone" free improv jam. The lick is almost 6 mins into it.
@@TurrigenousOfficial As always i can't thank you enough!
5555
I think you've confused the Lydian Diminished (a.k.a. Lydian Flat 3) scale with Lydian Minor. The actual Lydian Minor has a major third (even though it contradicts the name) and a flat 6, as opposed to the flat 3 and natural 6 which the Lydian Diminished has. This is unfortunately a common mistake (although it's easy to see why, given the weird naming) made even by professional music theory teachers.
Thanks for the input! I had to take a look and I can't say you're wrong. I took a look online and saw "Lydian Minor" is the 4th mode of the Neapolitan Minor Scale. It looks like its built 1 2 b3 #4 5 b6 b7. I wouldn't call this Lydian personally because to me, Lydian mean a maj7 with a #4. That one has a b7. Im also not too fond of scales that have 2 half steps in them (this having a #4, 5 and a b6). I would probably call that scale Aeolian #4, as I think it fits the mode better (b3, b6 and b7). I feel Lydian 'minor' is a better fit only because its one note different from Lydian and thats just making the 3rd minor. Kinda like Ionian vs. Ionian b3 (Melodic Minor). In the end they're just 'names' anyway but at least I learned something. I guess the name 'Lydian' means a scale with a #4 regardless of the 7th. Thanks again!
@@TurrigenousOfficial I think just the same regarding your reasoning, unfortunately the names have already been decided by other people and we just have to deal with it - but yeah, Aeolian #4 is probably what I also would have liked it to be named. I think "their" logic behind using Lydian is that its #4 scale step is the only truly unique interval of all the church modes (none of the other ones have the #4 in them) whereas the 7 is not truly unique amongst the church modes. Is it a flawless logic? Definitely not, but it seems to be what they went with.
@@MrGul Well I think the beauty of music is, we don't HAVE to deal with it. We can call things how we want. Is Melodic Minor Dorian #7? Ionian b3? Harmonic Minor natural 6? Its what we want it to be. One thing I've talked about in doing these videos is how 'liberating' AHs approach is. He using non functional harmony, with non traditional chordal voicings in every different scale. Mostly using non-traditional harmony. Also sometimes avoiding tertiary harmony. Who says we have to order the notes a certain way? As long as you know what key it belongs to. Why can't we play a maj7#11 chord with the #11 as the lowest voice and the root the highest? Traditional harmony makes sense for traditional music, but once we break out of that, I find it incredibly limiting. In one of the recent videos I made, I asked why can't we have a sus#4 chord (1 #4 5)? Who says we can't name it that? Its a legit chord and makes sense harmonically since the #4 usually resolves to a maj3 anyway. But theres no 'official' name for it traditionally so it shouldn't exist. I say phooey, time to evolve! :D. Thats just my opinion anyway.
@@TurrigenousOfficial Oh, I have absolutely no problem with using for example a sus#4 chord name (which doesn't have an official name, as you mentioned) because the intent is clear and it can't really be confused for something else. However, when we are communicating with other musicians (especially us, as we are teachers) there's a lot of potential problems that can arise if we use the name of a certain scale and/or chord which actually belongs to another scale and/or chord than the one we really mean.
...but that's just my opinion anyway. :)
@@MrGul Thats absolutely true!
There's a metal shard in your eyebrow. Can't stop starring.
Haha don't look so closely at my face then!
The weird symbol is the third letter of the Greek alphabet: gamma (γ)
Thanks!
Nice Video, but it doesn't explain why Holdsworth's symbol for Dorian is an X and a circle with the X for melodic minor.
He just created his own symbols. I believe he chose X for 'experiment' or something. I think he mentions that in an interview he did in 2014. I can't say why he chose others, he could have called them anything.
@@TurrigenousOfficial thank you, I'm just wondering why he didn't take any preexisting musical symbols. I guess maybe there would have been too many numbers then.
Mans just made his own theory🤫😂
Nice shirt
Thanks! They're my favs 🤘
@@TurrigenousOfficial same 😁 have traveled continents to see them. You can hear Allan's influence so clearly on their earlier records, especially Fredrik's soloing on some tracks and his improvisation when playing live. Great video man \m/
@CpLKaNeZA absolutely! I've told him that he may have gotten me curious about Allan to begin with. When I see them in Dec it'll be #13 😁
@@TurrigenousOfficial duuuuuude the stories you must have 🤣 🤣 super envious, if you do get the chance to speak with Fred, or any of them or their crew again, please ask them to consider coming to South Africa, we've been starved for good metal ever since the world went to 💩 a few years back...well, even before that tbh... anyway, hope they play some stuff from Catch 33, they didn't get around to it when I saw them in the UK, and to make it worse, it was when Per had stood in for Fred, so I've never even seen the Iceman play in real life, I have to!!!!! 🤘🤘
I don't understand
Sorry 🤷♂️
Spastik inc in this b.
Theres another picture taken with AH holding this chart and thats the face Ron is making looking at it with Allan hahah.
I don’t know what he’s saying or what he’s talking about.
All I know is Holdsworth good.
Same haha
The sad thing about AH's legacy:
Prog
Would you like to elaborate further?
I've heard some players who can play in the style of Allan Holdsworth, but nowhere near an indistinguishable point! His speed and thought process while improvising places him far out of reach for anyone to sound exactly like him, and it would be a waste of time to try when we should work on our own sound instead! Putting up charts and dissecting his style is like trying to find out how they built the Pyramids!
But with this we can get our own style with his approach. I suppose you wouldn't like my 5 and a half hour video on his improvisational techniques haha
Why he do that
Do what?
Allan’s system only made sense to him.
Well it makes sense to anyone that understand the symbols! Ill talk more about it in my next video. I wish we had a book of his "phonebook from hell" and charts too!
it's pronounced Mar key
Hmm what did I mispronounce?
@@TurrigenousOfficial Letters of Marque pronounced Mar key, it's not really that important, Lol, great video!!!
@@anthonydemitre9392 Thanks! I just realized you mean Letters of Marque. I saw a vid of Evan Marien pronounce it Mar-key and I thought he was wrong haha. AH in his lesson vid says Mark so thats what I went with haha
@@TurrigenousOfficial I believe the word is borrowed from the frence language
@@anthonydemitre9392 No, it's mark.
The teardrop symbol for the added flat 6 looks like a 6 with a thingy sticking out of the top left - that thingy could be interpreted as a minus symbol poking out.
Imo the teardrop is a sloppily written -6 or rather -6 written just differently enough so he understands it to be the added note -6, rather than the literal -6 he uses to create harmonic minor from his x inside the circle symbol (or whatever other scale he wants to flatten the 6 on).
Interesting! Never thought of it like that. It's certainly possible that's what it started with and then became that gamma symbol. I don't know if I showed it here but charts that Allan typed up def show that gamma symbol so it isn't sloppy handwriting, but I think your idea where it came from could be correct.