Custer Controversies: Were the Washita Captives Abused? Lives of the Little Bighorn Series
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- On November 27, 1868, the Seventh Cavalry attacked Chief Black Kettle's village on the Washita.
Following General Sheridan's orders “to destroy their village and ponies, to kill or hang all warriors, and bring back all women and children,” LT COL George Armstrong Custer burned the village, killed the Cheyenne ponies, and returned to Camp Supply with 53 Cheyenne women and children.
The plight of the women remains a controversy to this day.
Here we will review testimony by eyewitnesses, Cheyenne oral tradition, and what historians have said over the years.
(Please watch my Washita Series for more about this battle!)
For more about my current work-in-progress or my other works of fiction/essays/article (including the books The Confusion of Languages and You Know When the Men Are Gone, both published by Putnam/Penguin), please see my author website:
www.siobhanfallon.com
or follow me on Instagram and Facebook at
siobhanfallonwriter
THANK YOU SO MUCH and please SUBSCRIBE!!!
Siobhan Is a fearless Historian!
Uncut-unadulterated HISTORY!
Many would rather whimper away from truth but, 'History does not favor no one unless one is willing to learn from it!!"
Thank you once again.
Oh Hugo, as always you are so good to me. I appreciate you watching and saying just what I need to make me feel like I accomplished some small thing with these little presentations 🙏. You're awesome.
I agree with the others that you are doing an excellent job with these mini documentaries.
Thank you so much!! 🎉
About to put up another-- should get last edits done in the next hour or two 🙏
Very good job threading all the facts and conjecture and making intelligent surmises about complicated historical events. How did you get interested in this subject? I’m fascinated by your understanding of the negotiating practices of the captive Indian women, who worked to establish a best scenario situation for themselves in captivity. I think it’s likely this occurred. Thank you for your fine work in doing the research. And your presentation here is stellar! I look forward to seeing more of your work.
Thank you! It was the lesser heard stories of the women who drew me in and kept me studying this moment in history. It's incredible what they all endured.
Thank you for the kind words and feedback! 🙏
Now this is what I like about your channel. You are not swayed by the political views of our current day, but rather you get close the the cultural ways of each side of the conflict in the day in which the events occurred and read out what happened from their perspective rather than ours. Politics, no matter which kind, always has blind spots that filter out the fine details that truth is made of.
@@EndingSimple you just made my day. Thank you! 🙏
Another winner. Thank you.
Thank you, Sunny Jack, my friend!!
Working on a Bloody Knife bio now. Wow, what a crazy life.
I hope to have it up next week!!
@@SiobhanFallon7 I eagerly anticipate all of your topics. You have really honed your craft of story telling. I like being your friend. Thank you.
@@sunnyjacksmack thank you!! Same here 🙏
I just stumbled on your youtube channel great videos,
Why thank you!! I appreciate you taking the time to comment and hope to hear from you again!
I have read over 1000s books on Custer and his Last Stand and its nice to have a fresh new voice in the discussion and you do factual history proud ! Very relaxing to fall asleep to and I cant wait to see what you will cover next , sorry I have no suggestions , GARRYOWEN
Thank you for the kind words!! Don't worry, I have a long list of topics. But if you think of something that you think I ought to cover, please do let me know. I really enjoy the research and putting it all together, especially when I get such nice feedback from knowledgeable folks like you 🙏💕
@@SiobhanFallon7you know what might be nice how about something on Custer the Diplomat the one who was avoiding conflict with the Indians at all costs and trying to get back captured civilians peacefully. I'm sure you have read Louis Krafts Custer and the Cheyenne .
@patrickroy3380 yes!! And there are a few other incidents of Custer choosing negotiations over violence... I have that on my list but maybe I will move it to the top now!! 🙌
@@SiobhanFallon7I haven't listened to it yet but I'm pretty impressed to see a three-part on Frederick and I never saw a photo of him so young where was that from I have almost everything and never saw that one.
Thank you for focusing on the contributions of the Native American women! They suffered horribly during the plains wars/manifest destiny era and were very skilled politically.
Very nice detective work, Siobhan.
Thank you!
I spent a lot of time on this one.
What wonderful research!! Right up my alley! Keep up the good work!!
Thank you!
Working on a new one about Custer's scout, Bloody Knife, now 🙏
Very informative, thank you for that. It’s rare that history is presented without a self serving angle these days that’s why I find this refreshing.🍻
Much appreciated! Thank you 🍻
You are a remarkable and intelligent talent. Thank you for sharing.
@freddygray8058 thank you, Freddy 🙏💕
Thanks for your wonderful work
Siobhan
The name of the Black Kettle river is pronounced Wash Eh taw. I a m from Oklahoma and live 150 miles east of the site. Love your videos.
@lynnesherwood3748 thank you for letting me know, Lynne!! I'll work on my pronunciation. 🙏
And thanks so much for the kind words. I've been visiting family the last three weeks but hope to be putting out new videos soon!!
Another outstanding presentation by Siobhan Fallon. Would also suggest reading "Dog Soldier Justice: The Ordeal of Susanna Alderdice in the Kansas Indian War" by Jeff Broome.
Yes! Jeff Broome does excellent research. Thank you!
As I have told you elsewhere, this is your best work. It is a delicate subject that you have handled with care, yet brought the realities of that world, and its values, to bear in an excellent manner that provides a context that is simply lacking in every other treatment I have seen touching upon the matter.
Other videos might get more views or be more popular, but this one is worthy of an award. It is insightful, well considered, and based on the facts and realities of the day. Excellent job, even if it is somewhat lacking in proper maps.
Thank you, Geoff. I worked really hard on this one and appreciate you circling back to it. The topic is so clouded in misinformation and reflexive/ irrational emotion, but research often tells a completely different story than what people expect.
Great video! I really enjoy your narration and bibiliographies. Eagarly awaiting your next!
Thank you!!
Great work as usual! I look forward to your videos.
Thank you so very much 🤗
This is an excellent take on this story. I never even thought of that angle. It has the ring of, if not truth, probability.
Why thank you!
I'm in awe of the quality and content of your videos. Wish I had stumbled on your channel earlier. Keep 'em coming!
Wow!! Thank you! What a lovely comment to receive 🙏
I will keep putting these out there in the world, especially when people like you take the time to give me such positive reinforcement!
Most excellent portrayal of some US history. PLEASE give your skills free reign and tell us
about the history of Erin during the same time frame. In particular about the fookin English.
Best Regards
Colton
I have a lot of US history to cover first but I would very much like to delve into Ireland next. 🇮🇪
Great suggestion, thank you.
("Fookin English" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣)
Its pronounced ohh SAGE, like the plant or spice....NOT oh saggh..
Excellent as always.
Good video!
Non combatants and innocent's are those whom endure the greatest suffering in war.Kindness and heroic behavior are also exhibited in these situations.May we all appeal to our "better angels" in all circumstances.Well presented
Thanks David! 🙏
You are so right once again.
Can you do a program on George Crook at the Rosebud. Some say he bears some guilt for Custers failure
Ooohhhh sure!!!
In the meantime you might want to take a look at this, I touch upon Crook' column quite a bit here...
ua-cam.com/video/wDs7T-i3mYQ/v-deo.htmlsi=lskoSzE2E9swkUjc
Love You ❤
Benteen hair could have made a nice Indian pony blanket!
Ha!!!
Siobhan, in researching my doctoral thesis on the Southern Plains campaign of 1868-69 I wasn't able to find any reference to orders demanding that Custer "kill or hang" all warriors that predate that in Keim's book "Sheridan's Troopers on the Borders." Of course, Little Phil might have expressed such desires to Custer verbally, but it seems like an odd order to give considering the way Indian fights usually played out in those palmy days. Thanks for posting this! (Now, I wonder just what sort of book Keim would have written had he gone with Custer's column rather than hanging around with Sheridan while Custer was making his attack.) 🥶
Wow, Wayne, that's incredible... do let me know if you find any more info on that order please!
I'm sure the white captive woman's families had impressed on Washington to get on the ball now . Woman and children missing .
When are you going yo do Monassetah
@troymclean6487 hey Troy! I don't have a timeline. The problem is I have too many ideas!!
But I am glad you reminded me. I'd like to circle back and focus on Monasetah/ Meotzi soon.
Of course ! - be stranger if it didn’t happen
All the sadness for the truth of it. ✌️
Yes, so much sadness and grief 🙏
7:22 is that a free mason apron on the Indian?
I don't know! I have never heard of that before. You recognize it?
The story of children with Custer is my question . And Libby possibly found out and Weir had possibly made himself known to Libby . Custer said I don't blame you if you find someone , just please no trooper. Am I off track ?
Custer told her not to allow anyone to make himself her cavalier. He seemed rather jealous to me...
Here is the account given to Dr. Marquis by Monasetah/ Meotzi's cousin, Kate Bighead / Antelope Woman:
"My cousin, a young woman named Me-o-tzi , went often with him to help in finding the trails of Indians. She said he told her his soldier horses were given plenty of corn and oats to eat, so they could outrun and catch the Indians riding ponies that had only grass to eat. All of the Cheyennes liked her, and all were glad she had so important a place in life. After Long Hair went away, different ones of the Cheyenne young men wanted to marry her, but she would not have any of them. She said that Long Hair was her husband; that he had promised to come back to her, and that she would wait for him. She waited 7 years, then he was killed. Meotzi mourned when she learned of his death. I was not then with those people, but I heard that she cut off her hair and gashed her arms and legs for mourning. Her heart was much the more sad on account of his having been killed in a battle where the Northern Cheyennes fought against him. About a year later she married a white man named Isaac. They had several children. One of her daughters is now a middle-aged woman living with us Northern Cheyennes on Tongue River. The mother lived to old age and died in Oklahoma 6 years ago, some time after Christmas (in January, 1921), but her name is continued among us. A little granddaughter of mine is known to us as Meotzi. At times the young people joke her: "You are Custer's Indian wife."
Thank you for a bravura attempt to separate fact from fiction, delineate where truth can no longer be verified, and where legend begins. After 155 years, certain "facts" have taken such a hold in the public imagination and discourse, that anything less than total scholarly commitment to carefully analyzing first sources has no lasting impact.
Among the controversies surrounding George Custer, all too often one encounters opinions stated as fact, and sometimes by such central players as Frederick Benteen. Thus, we have endless controversy.
I'm reminded here of the famous line at the end of "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence": "when the legend becomes fact, print the legend".
It's hard to pin down events today with all of our access to technology. Throw in our desire to make things black and white, or good and bad, when human beings are always some sliding scale in between, and it seems like an impossible task to figure out what really happened at LBH, Washita, or any other conflict. But I agree with you absolutely-- our best chance is reading eyewitness accounts and matching them up. 🙏
Once Bloody Knife were about to scalp an elderly pair of sioux. Happened at the Black Hills survey. Custer stopped Bloody Knife and told the sioux´ that nobody would hurt them. Bloody Knife stayed away from Custer for two days after being stopped mutilating the pair. Fear of the Osage scouts may have driven the women to secure alliances with the soldiers no matter the price. I cannot see Custer inviting officers and men to engage the prisoners in ways like described by Benteen a.o. - Benteen was a true master in saying what others did not like to hear. An acrobat with words too. Spared nobody :)
Yes. The Southern Cheyenne women had seen what the Osage did to their dead and surely must have assumed they were next.
"Acrobat with words" Ha!! Great description of Benteen. It's very true that few escaped his pen.
I will have to look up that Bloody Knife story!! I have him on my list of bios to do soon, and that would be a great anecdote to include. Thank you! 🙏
@@SiobhanFallon7 Maybe I have the Bloody Knife story from "Son Of The Morning Star" by Connell. (Lots on Bradley there as well) I am happy to have found your videos. Very objective and very balanced.
@ivannio8519 thank you!! I will search for it. Bloody Knife is an interesting character in every story. Connell's book is full of excellent glimpses like that.
I would like to add that the hypocrisy of these wars is astounding the same Lakota at Little Big Horn slaughtered Pawnee women and children at Massacre Canyon , Eye witness accounts tell of the Lakota raping women and throwing children onto fires they killed only 24 men and well over 180 women and children.
The Crow , Shoshone , Pawnee , Kiowa had been victims of Lakota violence for decades and had pleaded for the US government to help this they achieved protection by moving onto reservations and providing the US with scouts if they had not done this they might have been wiped out I think the Pawnee in 1876 numbered a few thousand.
Custer was the mirror image of the hostiles he was facing , However I doubt he married this woman I also doubt he had sexual relations he was after all a Lt Colonel in the US army not to mention extremely well known but his brother Tom had no such qualms he was a free spirit and extremely brave and a bit of a womaniser.
As for Benteen he was virtually ostracised after the LBH his hatred for Custer grew and grew and I would imagine this became even worse as Libby made Custer into a world famous figure because in truth Custer would not be remembered now if it wasn't for Libby he would just be another causality figure.
Saying all that I really enjoyed how you presented this I have been studying American History for over 35 years and I teach a lot in collages for free in England keep up the good work.
Many insightful comments here-- thank you for sharing and for watching 🙏
Very well written and thanks for keeping history factual good and bad. GARRYOWEN
@@patrickroy3380 thank you!!
That's an interesting bit of "what aboutery" from Sandra. The Indians were at the time depicted as savages ,so inter tribal depredations shouldn't have been that surprising. In spite of their Christian culture and ethics, the so called civilised white folks were always up for committing similar atrocities which they frequently did.
Thankyou . Information off the scale . And yes Benteen is showing 10. 20 40 years later unreliable . By then Reno had died of alcohol. So could not say what was truth to Benteen . And looking to his features to me is explicitly pointing dishonesty is eating on him .
In the movie the son of the morning star one of the Indian woman her name was Kate big head said that Custer had a child a baby girl with one of the Indian woman which was a cousin of Kate's but she said that the baby didn't live long do you know if this is true? I think she said that the child's name was yellow bird
Yes! Kate Bighead gave an excellent account to Dr. Thomas Marquis! She witnessed many key moments. I love her perspective. 💕
@@SiobhanFallon7 awesome thank you so much for replying
My $$$ is on Tom if their was a child but I also recall the math of the dates of pregnancy didnt add up from their oral history . Not saying GAC didnt fool around but I believe he was sterile. Also remember that was a movie and the indians had many work stoppages during production if they didnt like something like running like the devil and the Black Kettle flag nonsense. GARRYOWEN
The passage of time doesn't disqualify the statements of Benteen or others, rather the passage of time makes them feel more comfortable in revealing the truth, without retribution SHE IS ON A MISSION TO TRY RE-WRITE HISTORY. THE UNIVERSE KNOWS THE TRUTH
What? Crawl back under your rock.
My goodness, the details you wriggle up from the depths of history. Do you find time to sleep?
Ha ha I do sleep sometimes 🤣 I'm traveling to the Little Bighorn Battlefield in a few days and wanted to get one more of these videos up before I flew away!
Thanks for watching and the kind words. I'm going to go take a nap now... 😉😴
It definitely.. happened.. they probably had fun
😬
Can we please put the term "Native American" to rest for the ridiculous idiocy that it truly is? As typical of the liberal left, every "PC" title is invented for the purpose of doing exactly the opposite of that which it claims...and this is yet another in a long line. Let me demonstrate: like anyone else, an Indian would first prefer that you refer to them by their given name. If you do not know their name, then we prefer to be called by our tribal affiliation. If you do not know what tribe an Indian is from, then simply call them Indian. Of course Columbus was wrong for identifying the native peoples in this way, but it 'worked' for some 500 years before someone found a need to replace the word, and over those centuries we kinda got used to it. Furthermore, on this hemisphere ANY person born at any time in history from just below the Arctic to just above the Antarctic IS A NATIVE AMERICAN. That includes anyone born anywhere on the continents/countries of North, Central, or South America, at any point in history. Thus, my thesis is proven: the exact opposite has been accomplished with the use of this asinine PC term. Instead of Indians being described in their true grace, as the PC term is "supposed to do", they have been lumped in with every other race or nationality with the fortune of having been born on this side of earth. Rather than identifying Indians as special, different, or worthy of particular note, the 'native American' term simply steals any individuality and identity AWAY FROM Indians (which is exactly the true intent of what PC invented language is supposed to do, and achieves deviously well).
Don't believe me or don't agree? Go to a pow wow and listen. You will hear phrases like "I'm on Indian time", "Indian dance", "Indian cell phone", "Indian taco and Indian fry bread", and many others that either start with or include the word 'Indian', SPOKEN BY THE INDIANS THEMSELVES.
As final proof I give you AIM, founded in 1968...it's not titled The Amercian Indian Movement for 55 years now for nothing.
I agree and don't dispute any of your examples.
I just spent three days in Hardin, Montana, at a Little Big Man Anniversary conference, led mostly by Crow Indians, and never heard the word "Native American" spoken by either the Cheyenne or Crow speakers.
However, the younger the speaker, the more they used "Indigenous People."
Care to weigh in on that or do you equate "Indigenous" with "Native," as neither are specific at all?
Thanks for breaking it down for us here.
As a Native American and historian for my people I would like to comment on the quality of this video. While the content is commendable your credibility is tainted by the mispronunciation of important words. Wasita = Wash-ih-tah, Osage = Oh-sage. Did you know that both Sand Creek and the Washita River were RESERVATIONS at the time that the massacres happened? I was stationed at Fort Sill, OK and had access to the Fort Sill Military Library. There actual hand-written orders and letters from General Sheridan to General Hazen regarding the promise of food rations that were to take place, and were used to keep the Cheyenne, Arapaho, Comanche, Kiowa, Apache, Lakhota, and a family of Caddo. My husband is a descendant of the Comanche and Kiowa at the Washita, and I am a descendant of the Lakhota that were both at Sand Creek and Washita. Our famillies were also at the Palo Duro Canyon during the Red River Wars. Anyhow, Just saying...
Thanks!
Custers young gal had a baby that died. That is the reason his body was not chopped up by the women.
Kate Bighead's testimony! Yes! I keep meaning to examine that story more closely. Thank you for reminding me, Alan!
@@SiobhanFallon7 thanks for the response. Grew up 60 miles west of Sand Creek, born 60 to 70 miles west of Washita sites. Got lots of Oklahoma Panhandle history documents for ya if interested, original 1836 Spanish land grant!! Found in Great Grandfathers papers, much more!
@alandavis9644 wow!!! Incredible! It might be a little while before I can circle back to the Washita, but I'm definitely interested, Alan!
My email us siobhan@siobhanfallon.com if you want to be in touch that way.
@@SiobhanFallon7 will do. You will be amazed at what I have. All my relatives, friends tell me I need to record all the stories I have in memory of the old timers. I have been referred to as "the human encyclopedia ".
Her name is meyotsee....pronounced may oat tsee
Sorry, the Marriage between the Daugthers of the Arrow Keeper and Bent, or the Marriages of his children has nothing to do with a desperate Woman after a morning of Blood and Tears.
Good point.
I could have made a clearer connection between what captives taken by the Cheyenne went through as a better comparison perhaps, and therefore was probably the expectation of the Southern Cheyenne women held by the soldiers.
In the case of Sophia and Catherine German, they watched their family die at the hands of a raiding party including Medicine Water and Mochi (their pregnant mother had the baby cut out from her womb). Sophia (12) and Catherine (17) were traded among warriors but Sophia's life was easier once she was 'married' to one warrior in particular, Wolf Robe. Catherine continued to have a very brutal time of it and remained prostituted out until the girls were handed over to the US Army after 6 months in captivity.
Anna Brewster Morgan had a similar experience, and said that her life grew easier as a captive once she was 'married' to a warrior.
These examples may have been a better illustration of why Mawhissa may have thought 'marrying' a maiden to a soldier was a better choice than other bad options in this situation.
@@SiobhanFallon7 I would also remark. It was a war full of bitterness. And sexuell harrasement was Part of war in both sides. Roberts wrote in his Book about Sand Creek that a few children where born after the Sand Creek Massacre. And the Rape of women ist Part of war. Even the Nazis raped jewish women, which was in their Ideology forbitten. Of course the Women did what they could to survive and save their children.
@oliviaschnepf2994 yes, sadly, you are right.
Benteen, fantasist, pathological narcissist
He is quite an interesting historical character 😉
You are pronouncing OSAGE WRONG, IT IS O SAGE
Thank you!! I appreciate that. In one video I think I got it right but then slipped back into my usual mispronounciations once again 🤦🏼♀️
I was studying this when you were in grade school, ma'am .He slaughtered women and children. Major Elliott died for his transgressions. He cut and ran with no regard for his charges. He knew the Cheyene had regrouped. He ran to save his ass. Before doing so,
Custer ordered his troopers to slaughter the Indian ponies with their knives ( to save ammo) . 😢
Read the oral accounts of how sickened his troopers were by the physical slaughter of these animals. It was well below zero that morning. The blood froze in seconds as it hit the cold air. These animals suffered in agony and screamed as they were slashed to death in order to bleed out. The troopers were physically affected and sickened by having to do this... Look it up.
In the movie " We were soldiers once "based on Colonel Hal Moores' experience with the 7th Air Cavalry in the battle of the Ia Drang Valley.
Sam Elliot sums it up best.
" Custer was a pussy. Si. r"...
He's is not to be lionized ...
Look at his casualty rates in the Civil War.
He was plain lucky... His luck ran out at the Greasy Grass. He got what he deserved.☠️
I'd appreciate if you could provide examples of his slaughtering women and children please? "Look it up" is a bit empty as I am actually looking this subject up. Your being older than me and a Sam Elliott quote in a movie doesn't quite cut it 🤔
I'm sure the soldiers were sickened by the killing of the ponies and it must have been horrible beyond belief. They were Cavalry officers, loved their horses, and depended on them for survival.
Thomas, you are so right, too bad Custer wasn't taken out sooner. He was not a hero or even good. How he could do the things he did, is beyond reason.
@Sandi Davis can you please tell us what you think he did? This is not a rhetorical question, I genuinely want to know. Much is attributed to Custer. He certainly was flawed. But we too often reflexively accuse him of things that had nothing to do with him. I remember thinking the same thing and was amazed how actual eyewitness accounts tell a very different story. I learn more every day and with each book. The the story from both points of view, US military and Native American, is very different than quick overviews tell.
@Siobhan Fallon , Did you read Evan Conells' book? Did you read Chief Gall wrote, "After my wife and daughter were killed, my heart became bad. I killed with my hatchet."
Did you do your due diligence on when he smoked the pipe with the Cheyenye Chiefs, and one dumped the pipe ashes at his feet and basically told him? "If you transgress us again after this, you will die? Do you know why he was the only one besides Major Miles Keogh, who wasn't mutilated??. DO you know who Maeotsee was? He wasn't mutilated because he fathered a son with a Cheyene Squaw. She was intimately familair with him . The squaws were the ones that finished off the survivoirs and mutilated the dead. "We didn't cut him him because he was family.We took a bone needle and pierced his ears so he would hear better in the next life." I dont 'talk crap ma'am. It's out there to find. Go find it. He was no hero... And the movie I referenced was a metaphoric trope.
"Custer was a fool. He rode to his own death." GALL said it. Why??? Go look it up. Why did Gall hate him?? Go ahead. I'm going to enjoy this.
The difference between your tribes and our Australian Aborigines is that our lot fought and killed but didn`t torture like over there
I know very little about Australian Aborigines. But the time period was a brutal period for anyone. I don't know how the human race has made it this far 🤷🏼♀️😉
@@SiobhanFallon7 Yeah we can be disgraces. Look what happened to our ancestors in Ireland
@@waynemcauliffe-fv5yf Yes 😢🍀
To hear of the treatment of these women is horrific the officers were animals and the military should be charged with rape and abuse the shameful behaviour and the General officers should charged with war crimes
Bad things were but done on both sides but please don't try to judge real men of 1876 against what is currently going on in 2023 as you're doing history a disservice
Bill, get educated and get a life.
Hey there, Bill. You might want to take a look at this series to see a wider view of the conflict... Thanks!
ua-cam.com/play/PLHfg6vohewsz_5UUQNdUfwYvWa5jP_3Jn.html
Why do you and others refer to it as 'the battle of Washita?. It was a massacre. Get it right.
HI there. I have an entire playlist that might help explain why the Washita fight was a battle: ua-cam.com/play/PLHfg6vohewsz_5UUQNdUfwYvWa5jP_3Jn.html
So that we all know what incident is being talked about. To call it The Washita Massacre could lead to misunderstandings. It was a military campaign, and when weapons are being used it´s called a battle.