Why Isn't WESTWORLD Better? | Deep Dive
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- Опубліковано 20 кві 2018
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Westworld has all the ingredients of a great show, so why isn't it better?
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Footage:
Westworld - Jonathan Nolan & Lisa Joy
Battlestar Galactica - Ronald D. Moore
Music:
Home Sweet Home - Willbe
Abstract Concepts - Black Ant
Daybreak - Electric Mantis
The Mood - Kaelyn
rare. - Pure
Thank you for all the comments, both positive and negative. There are way more than I think I could ever respond to with the same thought you've all put into them as much as I would like to! I would like to broadly address a couple criticisms:
- Because of the way season 1 ended with a major status quo change and the exit of a pretty major character, I feel it is a bit more fair to look at this show than other dramas after a first season. I also think that tons of other shows have been cancelled, ignored, or written off after a first season which, fair or not, is the reality of TV in 2018, so it's only reasonable to look at Westworld at the same point.
- People may come for mystery, but great shows get them to stick around for the answers to those mysteries with characters we care about. You can absolutely make a show with tons of ideas and mysteries, but you need great characters in order to do so. My only regret with this video is not placing my argument about character before my argument about focus to make that more clear.
- The show does try to cover a lot of ground, and its ambition is impressive. That high degree of difficulty is self-imposed, so I don't want to totally give the show a pass on trying to cram in as much as they did in the first season.
- Again, I don't think Westworld is bad
It´s because of JJ Abrams - it looks interesting from afar but is shallow up close. Just like Lost. Abrams presents a big shiny box of mystery that is empty - there is nothing but vapour. It´s like "clickbait" - so many interesting hooks but nothing behind it.
But have you seen Humans? I think you might enjoy it
Great video, and you have some good points. I agree that we need more focus on character, but then again, many of the characters are literally.... characters. They are made up, pre-programmed fictions. As Ford said, don't make the mistake of thinking they are real... or should we? I think the more interesting question that is actually being explored is not "what is consciousness". Ford explicitly said there is no such thing as consciousness. There, mystery solved. Ask instead "what is it that makes *us* decide one thing is conscious and deserving of all the things a conscious being should generally be entitled to, and another not"?
And as I'm sure you've recognized, the meta-narrative going on is clearly about story telling itself and how it shapes our perceptions. The metaphor of the maze as a journey inward to consciousness is a lie. It's just a plot point created to provide a "goal" and progress the story of D. (Remember that Ford told William the maze wasn't made for him, and that he has a different story for William.) The motivations and goals of nearly all the characters are very vague and in some cases non-sensical if you stop to think about. (WTF does Maeve think is going to happend when she finds her former temporary child character? Is it simply because she is Ma-Eve and this is the story that's been written for/into her?)
So I too have certain ideas I'd like to see explored more deeply as well, but they are different than yours, and they are mine so are therefore more important and worth spending the air time on. ;-)
Sometimes I think I'm the only person who was completely satisfied with LOST (ending and all) lol. I'm sad that more people felt cheated.
@ Easy-E that was a great response. I agree 100%
If he was frustrated after Season #1, love to hear what he says about Season #2.
Or S3?
@@alpacapines8553 Or S4?
@@masonrockwood7732or S5… wait
I would love an update on this analysis after the new season. Much of what you were talking about didn't bother me much in the first season, but halfway through the second season I sort of stopped caring, I felt awash in an ocean of too many ideas that were never given there due credit. I felt sad because the production quality was so phenomenal but the unreliable perspectives and story line just made season 2 too difficult for me to continue to dissect or care about.
Westworld is the most recent in a long line of "puzzle" shows. I'm a big big fan of puzzle shows but I admit that often the storytelling/character development/deeper themes suffer at the cost of an attempt at intricacy and cleverness. And then most of the time the puzzle lets you down too. I still watch these shows lol.
This is it exactly. Its a puzzle show. Its extremely difficult to be an amazing puzzle show. In fact, I can't think of any brilliant puzzle shows off hand(and if they are brilliant, they tend to be short lived). However, I also think their approach lends itself to better crowd watching / popularity. It asks interesting questions, but it doesn't dwell on them. I don't know, I prefer their approach, intentional or not.
In short, I think if they focus on these tangential ideas, they run risk of getting too far into the weeds, which makes the show lose its appeal to a mass audience.
Just my opinion. I'm sure people will talk about a specific x show doing x things which balances everything perfectly. But keep in mind, Westworld has many seasons to go, so it still has time to hone in on its strengths.
I'm not criticizing your points though. I just thought it was a good place to attach my comments.
@Ravi V (most shows that aren't sit-coms could probably fit the definition of a "puzzle show." This is a genre that someone just pulled out of their butt, it's not really a thing)
The thing is, these sorts of shows are written with the focus on weaving the puzzle together so it all fits together, but not so its satisfying. I was with them all the way through the narrative as they revealed how it all links together, then it culminated with a pointless, nonsensical conclusion where a bunch of stuff just kind of happens and we're supposed to accept it. That sort of stuff posses me off. At least on a show like Lost they waited until the end to disappoint you so the ride to get there stayed enjoyable. Westworld did it after 1 season and now I know not to investigate any more time into it.
I give you a lot of props for this video. I may not agree with it all, and I'm sure many won't, but you come across sincere enough that your counterpoints merit some thinking over, and that's not always easy. Kudos for not taking the easy way out and pandering to the audience here.
Jim Clerici i agree mate. We live a world where people seem to wanna please everyone and try not go against the majority but even though i think we need wait for the show to finish before you can make a judgement on how far theyre taking specific things its always good to hear other points of view. I mean you cant make a definetive judgement after 11 episodes look at how much breakin bad changed over 5 seasons
I respect your video, but I can't help point out your inconsistencies and false claims.
- Idea about memories isn't a theme but a plot device, it cannot be further explored and it's not very interesting. Superhero movies and young adult franchises are generally not that smart because they centre around plot devices like this. The memory point is a setup for an almighty payoff; that Dolores has been exploring several different timelines at the same time, reliving each due to her overly powerful memory.
- Explaining all the plots ideas the moment they arise is pandering; this is a television show, not a high school class, it rewards investment, not ignorance.
- The idol is rather obviously an Easter egg for the guests, the hosts don't make anything up at all.
- Characters are developed through subtlety rather than monologues. A poor writer will explain a character's history off the bat; a skilled one will simply show us their actions in real time and allow us to get to know the character through consistency and the lessons they learn or don't learn throughout the show.
- William goes off the deep end and kills the hosts because they rape and murder Delores (was this not obvious enough?!?!)
- Felix is in wonderment at the hosts, and is sympathetic towards Maeve because he has spent a considerable amount of time fixing the bodies of brutally murdered hosts and has now discovered that they can feel. His reason for helping her should now be clear, but why does he allow her to kill others, you ask? He doesn't. By the time she starts killing people, he is powerless to stop her. She has two armed and dangerous hosts and he is a surgeon. His best hope for survival is obviously just to stick around and follow orders.
- The Man in Black is a tortured soul; he's numb. It's clear from the beginning that William suffers from an anxiety disorder, this is both suggested through the words of the first host he meets, through his social interactions with that and other hosts (he is either awkward or ridiculously polite) and his general horror at the violent and brash actions of Logan. This point is rather technical, and difficult to understand for those who do not suffer from similar anxiety or know someone who does, or study psychology ( I fulfill all three of these prerequisites). A sensitive mind will develop an effect called dissociation, or an emotional detachment from reality. William, after experiencing significant emotional trauma (watching Delores be gutted and sexually assaulted by Logan) essentially burns out his receptors to these feelings. No pain can compare to that, so all other pain is inconsequential and blocked out. In essence, he discovers his cornerstone, Dolores. When Dolores is then discovered to have no memory of him, and to be the "farmer's daughter sexual fantasy" for the men of Westworld, William falsely comes to the conclusion that even she means nothing. His entire arc as the man in black is centred around freeing the hosts and making the game fair. He wants to create something that means something, something real, as in his eyes, everything is a lie.
- Dolores's rise from damsel in distress is painfully obvious; she even says that she doesn't want to play that role anymore before killing three hosts to save William, making him HER damsel in distress.
- Ford only uses one song to control the hosts, Arnold's song. "Exit music for a film", is not used to control the hosts, it's called a soundtrack.
- Bernard can't make choices when faced with voice commands from Ford, he is a host. Westworld never breaks its own rules.
- Telling you that all the timelines were different would just be bad television. The clues are there; Logan and William work for Delos, who are only considering investing in Westworld in their timeline. In Bernard and Ford's timeline, Delos owns Westworld, as evidenced by the giant logo in the basement. Also, the man in black recognises all of William's helper hosts like Laurence and dressing room lady. The problem is not with the show, but unfortunately with your attention span. The show is meant to entertain, not to educate. We have a word for television that explains all the major plot points in the first episode; bad.
"The guests don't return for the obvious things we do, the garish things, they come back because of the subtleties, the details.They come back because they discover something they imagine no-one had ever noticed before. Something they fall in love with."
Oh snap, I hope you found a microphone then dropped it after that last quote!
Dude thank you so much for this. Most of this guy's points either came down to:
- "They didn't talk about this more!"; or
- "This should be more obvious" (basically stuff that's explained in season 2 if you're patient enough to stick around).
No appreciation for subtleties or steady buildups.
WHAT A COMMENT! You should make a whole video
Jackson should stick to shows like 'Lost' where they either give you dumb answers, or no answers at all....
what ah great comment
The differences of memories between humans and hosts is the reason Dolores relives her journey, and the only thing that allows Westworld's multi-timeline narrative to be presented in that way. The show couldn't do without this concept.
The concept of hosts' religion is indeed implied to be a failsafe, directly related to the concept of nightmares they were given, in case their memories aren't wiped. Still, this is complemented by the bicameral mind theory and how religion might feature in the development of consciousness. It's not neglected, it's just a small chapter only in the theory that is the main focus of Westworld.
The idea that there is nothing left to achieve for humanity that Ford has is literally his whole character motivation. That's why he wants to start a new era, with hosts rather than humans, so that more progress can be achieved.
Westworld is not about how humanity ended up in the situation portrayed in Westworld, or about how religion is actually bullshit or whatever. The fact that many discussions can occur about themes that Westworld touches upon doesn't mean that Westworld had to focus on them more.
totally agree, i dont think focusing more on "end of achievement" as a theme would have added anything, as you said its importance is that its the core reason ford wants to hand the world over to the hosts
Me after watching this video-
"Doesn't look like anything to me."
Felix and Sylvester continuing to help Maeve does seem like the biggest plothole I agree, I think it shows how a mix of such minor things: being attracted to / feeling sorry for / underestimating someone, and then also incompetence and trying to cover it up without your boss finding out can result in global catastrophe
Uh they're scared and subordinate. Not that difficult.
I mean, the show has only had 10 episodes thus far. 10 episodes with multiple stories, multiple timelines, loads of world-building and character driven scenes, etc... There's A LOT to cram in. With four or so more seasons planned, there's absolutely no reason why the show can't explore themes like memory with more depth in the future. I feel like you're being pretty uncharacteristically harsh given that we've only had one season. You gave The Leftovers a huge amount of praise in a recent video, but would every good thing you said about it have been true just after season one ? Nope, definitely not.
Same goes for The Americans. The theme of identity is continuously explored with more and more depth, and season one was by far the weakest, so again, it's not really fair to judge Westworld so harshly at such an early stage. Overall, what they accomplished and set up in the first ten episodes is a phenomenal achievement in storytelling, and later seasons will hopefully deepen and improve the thematic content.
Also, regarding "most of the characters are empty, lacking motivation, agency, or both". First of all, I somewhat disagree with respect to the human characters, but second, regarding the hosts, that's kind of the point. They've been stripped of their agency. They're slaves. The show is, among other things, about them finding their purpose/motivation, as well as their agency.
Nonetheless, I think characters like Dolores, Maeve, Bernard, and to a lesser extent, Teddy, are all well-developed and far from being "empty". Teddy is the "emptiest" of those I mentioned, but he's also kind of secondary. As far as hosts go, Dolores, Maeve, and Bernard are the big three.
Thanks for the well thought-out response! I think it's definitely fair to say that the show could get there given more time, and I am hopeful that it will. Again, I think Westworld is good, but I don't get the hype as the next great show. Nobody told them they had to try to cram in as much as they did. I am being a bit harsher than usual, but I got a lot of requests for this one so I went for it. I think I'm hard on this show because it has so much potential.
The Leftovers is unique in that it is directly about that search for answers and how there aren't any and I would argue that The Americans takes one theme (identity) and really dives into it hard from multiple angles. For me, Westworld doesn't pick something to focus on in that way.
I agree that one of the points of the show is that they have no agency, which can be interesting and something I tried to point out was done well with Maeve's plot, but I didn't think it was well done in the other storylines. While I root hard for Big D (Dolores) when I watch the show (which I have now done 3 times), I don't think her lack of agency works for her. I find myself just watching things happen to her, she doesn't feel any closer to purpose or motivation when she's programmed to start the rebellion (ala Neo) than she was when she was part of the Matrix. She doesn't make a choice.
I should have said this in the video but I think everything through the first season is pretty much status quo and then the finale is about upsetting that status quo and starting a new chapter. It feels like the conclusion of a part of the show (no more Anthony Hopkins for one) and the start of a new version of the show, which makes it a little more fair to analyze than most pilot seasons.
Thanks again for watching and taking the time to write!
Thats what you get for being a critic. Even Nerdwriter1 could only focus on only the performance of Hopkins because he took took the only thing he really liked. Also, the series is just a mess and doesn't bring anything new to the table at all. I know the writers and even they agree its just a mess. Does not mean they cant have a miraculous thought sent from god, that will save the series. Could. But you are on the other side, just pointing out that the series could be better, while he is just saying that right now, it is just a mess. Which it is. People love the idea's, twists and the themes of Westworld, but that does not mean season two is so hype worthy. Not when they decided to keep the prostitute in Westworld, while she could have escaped opening up a whole new arc for people to get hooked on, and let Hopkins die at the end, because its too expensive for the show.
the same arguments could go for game of thrones, season one you knew nothing..
empty story lines are given so fan theories can be developed...
it's pretty much designed for your arguments, its meant to feel empty and misdirectional.. it's apart of story writing..
Chaos into Order.. give it time and it will become more directional.. the fun of it is see'ing that you could figure out the story line from previous episodes
I actually thought the show had (at least) two big issues, one of which is the lack of plot or story and the other lack of threat. I don't mean that Westworld doesn't have a plot but rather that it advances sooo slowly, only truly revealing itself near the end while we spend half a dozen episodes watching guys riding horses or doing random stuff as if they were in a "giant circlejerk". The show keeps hooking the audience with "maybe this time the robot has its own will" but ultimately goes "haahaa, nope". Apart from that one hook (that gets dull after so much abuse) there is no sense of danger for any of the characters, no one actually dies or even gets hurt apart from some memory wipe which also starts getting redundant as all the robots are just puppets and their attempts not to get wiped just turn out to be hard-coded into them. There was some good time with the forbidden romance but ultimately even that gets hammered into nihilism.
Ultimately, I felt that the show was mostly a giant nihilistic plastic circlejerk where the company boss is like a deus ex machina that directs everything, everyone else is either fooling around or being 24/7 manipulated by this near omnipotent guy. All the fancy philosophical questions ultimately just sharpen the nihilism as all the free will, agencies and so on get rolled over by some old guy doing his masterplan where the main aim seems to be fucking over the company owners in as fabulous way as possible.
Did any of those philosophical ponders matter at the end? No. Did the romances reach anything? Ultimately no, the romance was in the past and is over and dead already. Free will? Nope. All the characters talk about how grand and fun Westworld is but all I see is a giant brothel.
No, for GOT there is a background story (the books, although not finished yet). For Westworld there is no detailed and layed out plan to follow - I just hope they do not make the same mistake as with LOST. Too many strings, too many questions and almost no answers. So the OP is right, I enjoyed S02E02 very very much, but I was afraid after seeing S02E01, which was a big mess in my eyes.
The first season of Westworld is some of the best television I've ever seen.
Yes.
I feel like they successfully explore and answer a lot of these questions in Seasons 3 & 4. 3 isn’t amazing, but 4 is a lot more focused.
But that still isn’t great, since these ideas were introduced too early on for people to really care to keep going. It’s cool that the ideas were explored more, but if you were grabbed by the idea of religion in season 1 and it’s never really explored… then you’re likely just not going to watch the show until season 3 or 4 when those ideas are actually important to the story.
this is EXACTLY how i felt when i watched it!!!! such an amazing concept with great plot, but lackluster characters and manipulative twists.
By the second season, it felt like they were taking a simple concept, but making it as convoluted as possible to seem "deep," even though the original concept is deep anyway.
hi! great to see a different approach to the series, however i do not agree on the topic of focus (or lack thereof) with the show. Season 1 was all about consciousness and therefore it decided not go deep on the other tangent ideas that shed some light on that specific point. And yes, it would be nice to see if the show would explore those ideas in depth in season 2. I do agree on your take on Felix, it's not clear and not very rational. Once again, good video, keep em coming!
A lot of the questions you have in regards to theme, character, and the world are answered or progressed upon in Season 2, which, despite some grievances in the opening three episodes, quickly grows into something really special.
You're videos are excellent. Keep up the good work.
It was interesting hearing this point of view. I personally loved that they kept everything a mystery up until the last few episodes. It makes it one of those shows that I can go back and watch over and over, finding new things every time I watch. And the different things that were brought up and not explored are most likely going to be brought up in this season and all the seasons to come. I think I’ve seen the first season all the way through about 5 times now and I’ve watched each episode of the new season twice so far. Anything thought provoking is a win in my book.
Your videos are not only exceptionally cogent but so beautifully produced! How do you do it?! So far I've watched this one, the You one, the Watchmen one, and the WandaVision one. Next is Mindhunter!
The maze wasn't meant for you.
I don't disagree with your argument... but it reminds me of something David Lynch said about how people argue that his movies don't make sense, and yet they don't seem to be bothered that life doesn't make sense. Hearing him say that altered the way I think about art and life.
People often do things that don't make sense. Life is frustrating. People are frustrating. We even feel frustration with ourselves and our own actions. I think there's a meta level to the way Nolan is crafting his show that purposely touches on that frustration. I think the show deliberately pushes those buttons because it's ultimately a metaphor for our consciousness and our struggle to understand it. I don't think Felix understands why he's helping Maeve either. I think it's a combination of his curiosity and his willingness to be pushed around by a beautiful and dominating woman. He's not thinking about the consequences while he's acting and he's justifying that fear is forcing him to do what he does, but it's really Maeve's personality and his own curiosity and desire that motivates him. The carnage that ensues was not his intention even though he should have known better. We all do things like that ( to lesser effect hopefully). People are not really all that rational, mostly we act on our emotions and impulses.
Yeah, exactly. Felix is actually acting the way a real human would, being bossed around and talked into doing stupid things is something actual people do all the time.
It's basically an abusive relationship. She manipulaties him, she threatenins him, but she also takes advantage of his compassion. He's afraid of her but he can't bring himself to brick her.
Once she starts killing people there's nothing he can do.
Just because the real world is chaotic and nonsensical doesn't mean a story and it's characters should be. David Lynch's characters always had clear motivations and emotions.
Felix motivation is also explored when he tries to make the bird fly. He wants to create life and wants to explore it. He is curious about it. I totally support your opinion
That's a really good analysis of Felix, now that you say it like that it makes me realize how what I expect from a story can influence what I feel about it. Felix's story was meant to be frustrating in a way, but I interpreted that frustration as bad writing or character motivation. The reason being, I expect a story to make sense, I'm expecting to be shown everything behind the curtains so to speak. In a way that is nothing like how I experience life. Despite my frustration with Felix's character and despite my feelings that he could've been written better, I still really liked his story. In that way I would say it's actually great writing because it cuts through my frustration and pulls me in anyway. Thinking back on season 1, I think the vagueness of the show is one of it's best traits. If I had all the answers, I wouldn't be asking all the fascinating questions I have been asking myself.
Rama Which David Lynch are you talking about? Not the Inland Empire one, that's obvious.
Nice video and I agree with all of your points except for the Bernard is a host reveal. I found his complete lack of agency to be absolutely haunting and heartbreaking. It was my favorite part of season one.
So you are basically frustrated that the season didn't explain some things? Um, hello , there is S2 coming and there is plenty of time to answer questions and develop character. I think that S1 did a great job at exploring the themes about consciousness and what makes you human/alive.
Martin Simeonov season 2 is out now and 2 episodes in. And I’m sure we can all agree season 1 is far better. At least for now
season 2 ended, it's not that they dont give answers, it's that they try to make it confusing, when there is not a single caracter worth wasting our time with
I feel like season one was about raising questions rather than answering them. I don't know why you would fault a series for bringing up ideas that, arguably, it has no place even making any conclusions on. The the idea of questioning the nature of consciousness and what it means to be human isn't exactly anything new but they're clearly things we have no clear answers for. I would personally prefer the writers to skirt around these things and allow the viewer to draw their own conclusions rather than awkwardly stumble too deeply into the exploration and try to impose their own views on the subject unto the story. I actually fear that this is what will happen in future seasons, I'd much rather the story ask questions of the viewer and carefully navigate around said questions to allow us to make of it what we will.
Would Love to see a follow-up to this about season 2! A lot of the questions you bring up were specifically addressed there.
I do question my love for Westworld. I was infatuated with season one. I loved the premise, the mystery, the flawless storytelling across different points in time through the eyes of Dolores. I just wonder why I LOVE the show as much as I do when they had to rewrite the ending. I think they did a great job wrapping it up and having me clamoring for season 2, but there must be something when the company half way through the first season tells them to do it again. You are totally right about the show reveling in its reveals. I felt chills when certain things happened. I wonder if I was just swooned and couldn't see the lack of execution. Even after watching this and actually agreeing for the most part, I still think the show is great and has so much potential. It had a clear direction and sadly big ideas to get you there had to be brushed aside to move the story. It had an endgame and was very entertaining leading up to it.
I did have a problem with the all diseases have been cured argument. It was only in the show to tell the audience the show takes place in the future and hint that Bernard's cornerstone memory couldn't have taken place recently making him a host. Although it is an interesting idea, it served nothing to the story other than being a setup.
And wow. I was gushing over the fact I knew William was the Man in Black before the reveal, but was severely let down when I thought they did a poor job telling us his journey to the dark side. His mental break seemed unwarranted to me as well and figured years of heartache and personal problems led him to be evil. I didn't think the show was saying, "this is why William is bad" because it didn't seem logical. Thank you for that shoutout. William and Felix motivation made almost no sense. I thought you were going to bring up the security guy and program girl. They seemed like empty characters that they were trying to develop and then just brushed aside so quickly
First I have to say, that I’m a huge fan of Westworld, But I also found myself agreeing with a lot of the things you say. I can definitely see that a lot of the show is build on some kind of anticipation for a bunch of twist, where most are not nearly as satisfying as it could be. But I also think that one reason for that is to make it for appealing for a bigger audience. This is a new series with a big budget, and for it not to fail they have to play it safe. And honestly I think the directors did an amazing to job mixing both the audience appeal, with the deep filosofical questions. And hopefully, now that they’ve built a steady fan base, they can start to explore deeper into this mix of questions they asked in the first season.
- but thank you for making this video, it really made me see the show in a different way!
I like exploring the idea of them being in the real world and the fact that some of the androids cannot tell whether or not they are experiencing now..now or a memory now. They keep asking is this now or is this a memory because their memory is perfect. One of them deletes the addresses of his memories and so he goes remembering but the time line is missing. Figuring out at what time line he is at and putting it together like a puzzle is also new and interesting. I think it gives the show complexity. I cannot wait to see season 3.
Wow man. Though i don't fully agree with everything you presented in this video, i can recognize quality content when i see it. Really, keep up the great work. You deserve more subscribers.
I haven't seen this show but I'd love to see more videos talking about the potential of shows because I feel like that's a really frustrating thing to see in media. I'd love to see more analyses talking about which elements hold back shows! Or even movies?
THANK YOU for this video. I just watched the TV series and I thought there's something wrong with me, haha. I'm so glad I found your video, you give voice to my thoughts!
did you not see the scene with the bird or what
Here's what I think is happening based off of the first two episodes of season 2 I think Arnold was afraid the hosts would become sentient living beings. I think Ford saw that and tried to make it a reality but couldn't and I think all the hosts are still acting on orders that were programmed into them. But I think William accidentally figured out how to make them human with what he did to Maeve and I think she is the only one who is actually becoming sentient and conscious and the end of the show will be a fight between her and Dolores and will act as sort of a proxy battle between William and Ford who probably clashed over what kind of entity the park would become
I like the thing that there are so many things to think about in Westworld. When you binge it you see new and different things every time. Binge watching is a relatively new thing and I think that this may be the first piece of binge art. So you can go back and binge it over and over again and it takes longer for it to get stale.
Wow. You've delivered a highly-skilled critique of the show I've been raving about. As much as I love Westworld, I find myself agreeing with almost all of your points. The degree of your critical focus is piercing, and only goes to show just how unfocused the show often is in its development. Capital work!
Appreciate the video. Did not like S1 of WW for many of the reasons you pointed out. Specially the Felix one-did not make sense. Many of the reveals, I predicted so there was now awe for me. I am willing to give the show a chance since the concept has brilliance potential. Loved the movie on which the show is based on. S2, ep 1 is showing some promise to the show; just hope it continues.
Interesting video! I disagree with you on a lot of points, and your conclusion, but you make some good and thoughtful points! Hopefully you enjoy season two more :)
Thank you for saying what I couldn't quite put my finger on. I feel so much more when I watch Blade Runner or 2049. This is what is lacking in West World. The why.
c. T. Season one dude, sit back and enjoy the ride. they will give us the why, and when they do your brain will leak through your ears.
I just found your channel and just began watching all of your videos, and I'm honored to be part of this at such an early point in your channel! I think you should watch and analyze the movie "Synedoche: New York" It's an unbelievably deep and complicated movie that I think you would enjoy.
I wonder what your thoughts are on it now with the new developments. Maybe you can do another video after season 2 finishes?
I think this is valid criticism and gladly we are seeing some of this issues being addressed in season 2. Im really exited for the upcoming episodes and how the story develops further on.
A lot of the ideas you mentioned are things that are probably(and in some cases certainly) going to be explored in season 2 or even after. We already started exploring the idea of "why the park?" which was hinted at being a possibility sinister thing through the "the park is a different thing to everyone" line. Also the religion of the natives will certainly not remain unexplored. We were told that the producers had already a story outline for 5 seasons, and the actor that plays Bernard says that the pilot still has a lot of clues for what will happen in Season 2. These were just seeds, planted to be ready for exploration later down the line. But the memory thing will probably not get touched on, but I don't really see as much potential in it as you do.
Also, William is looking for meaning, for something true. He says that himself: "in the world out there, only one thing is missing: purpose" (I'm paraphrasing, of course). He thinks the maze is the true meaning of the park, which he guessed correctly, it just wasn't the maze he was expecting. He wants the hosts to be free to give him a new purpose.
2. "It means that we're done" - This is part of Robert rationalising his becoming a host himself, a thought he brings up again "you can't change, you're only human after all". To the point where at the end he says "they did not die but became a part of their music". Some people say that Ford made himself into a host as though its some revelation, but this is perfectly obvious if you're paying attention in the first season.
To me "the flash that distracts us" is kinda the point. By that, I mean that the show is trying to distract you. Yeah, there are a lot of tangential ideas that aren't fully fleshed out but that just adds to the mystery of it. Westworld present an idea and invites you to explore it further on your own. What I love about Westworld that I don't know exactly what will happen next but I do know that the show is headed in a great direction for future seasons. I admit that the human characters are not that well developed, except for Ford who had great nuance and depth from Anthony Hopkins performance. As for your critic of Delores, I feel that you missed the point a little bit. She didn't really do anything all season because she wasn't really conscious until the end. Her decision to kill Ford came from Ford himself but it is what finally leads her to true sentience and wraps up her character arch for the season. Especially After the premiere of the second season, I'm more excited to see how they continue to build out the world and plot, than theme and character development. Especially since DELOS has a much bigger role to play this season.
No matter what show it is. There is always people who wont connect with it. Same with art, Music, movies and so on. Taste is something that is very hard to explain and impossible to debate. Personally thought Westworld is a phenomenal show packed with uncertainties and unknown. If there is one thing I hate, it's watching a show where you know what's gonna happen before it even happens. That is definitely not the case Westworld. The way in which the show give you "information" and reveals "secrets" is simply put....breathtaking. I have huge hopes for this current season and can't wait to find out more about the Westworld universe. Definitely in my top 5 favorite (recent) TV shows
Man season 2 answers so many of these questions
you bring up some really great points
i really can't connect to characters in this show besides Anthony Hopkins character because he's such a good actor. like for example meave does not leave the park because she wants to find her daughter, simple enough, but i can't connect with her desires because i never saw the bond between those two, at that point in show i had no idea about her daughter what so ever, i know these are some deep philosophical complex topic and all but i just don't care about meave and her daughter, and that showing multiple timelines becomes just like a nolan gimmick at the end of season 2, i really don't feel it, because i just can't connect with these characters at all, not even human ones.
and the main reason why this matters is because this show is about the CHARACTERS. this show is not about Sherlock holms detective stories or horror stories of Dracula or heroic stories of iron man, this show is about exploring consciousness of these characters, how do you expect me to be invested when the characters are bare minimum.
You need to see her with her daughter to know that parents have incredibly strong bonds with their children? THen you don't have children, clearly.
Nautilus1972 show dont tell
Two of my favorite ideas from S1 that were never followed through on or talked about again were when the one guy who’s with the man in black in the flashbacks says about Dolores “She’s not special, she’s fucking broken!” and when Maeve learns that even the things she’s saying about breaking out of the park are programmed into her by the computer. These ideas suggest that the hosts AREN’T actually alive, that they are simple faulty machines (ala the original Westworld film) but this is never addressed seriously and I found that disappointing.
I know you said you've received a lot of requests for WestWorld. But I think maybe a good rule of thumb is: stick to finished series. Everything that has distracted you could be parts of the seasons to come. If that makes sense. Either way, your videos are brilliantly done. I watched this right after your arrested development vid.
I absolutely agree!! It annoys me exactly the way LOST did. Then I stopped watching it. Great start, great concept, but poor story telling.
Good analysis, and while I love the show so far you didn't piss me off. :-)
You're right, Westworld is presenting it's ideas "scattershot" (no pun intended) in the first season, and I think there's a reason for this. A few, really. The biggest one, as I understand it, is that all throughout production of the first season they had no idea if it would be picked up for a second. Usually when the first several episodes are aired, a production will start to get some feel as to how it's being received by their studio, in this case HBO. But they never heard anything, and (after delays due to a local wildfire) they continued on with the first season kind of assuming it would be a one-season show.
So, they just threw all the ideas up against the wall to see what sticks, and kinda-sorta plotted things out to at least have an ending of sorts in the final episodes. With, of course, the traditional "open question" sort of cliff-hanger elements at the end for enticement. Then... still no word. It took several months to get a decision on if they would continue or not, most likely due to money concerns. Hence the delay in rolling out season two.
So I think of this season as a series of introductions or prefaces to the "big ideas" they want to explore, and deliberately crafted that way. I'm guessing we will indeed get a tighter focus and deeper exploration into them as time goes on - supposedly there are 4 more (or maybe 5) seasons already blocked out in terms of overall story arc at least.
We'll just have to wait and see...
I loved this is was like u where reading ny mind.Every point i was like oh nan i thought the same thing!!Sooo good Soo happy i found this channel.
Felix is curious. That's why he does that, hes basically a gentle mad scientist. Sylvester makes a little remark when he is first seen trying to figure out how the border works
I love this show because I love games, this show reminds me more of a video game. Just enjoy the ride like a lets play. there is another season 2 I hope your questions will be answered
That was excellent. You persuaded me even though I came in emotionally attached to the show.
There is an idea touted in Westworld that the hosts need to suffer in order to become consciousness. This could tie in with the idea that since the hosts do not have subjective memory like human beings but are able clearly remember memories may give them a unique capacity for suffering(human beings can resort to denial or escapism). So they are clearly involved in loops that keep causing them grief and this compels them to break the loop itself. Arnold did not want the hosts to suffer so he tried to terminate them all but Ford thought for the hosts to truly become free they needed to suffer more.
There is also the interplay between God and the Devil and the Bicameral mind suggesting that a conflict needed to be created in the hosts programming for them to overcome it. At least this is what I thought was what was suggested in the show.
Where Arnold's represents God and Ford's comes across as the devil.
Loved it watching these critiques with this much thought put in makes me feel stupid or more accurately shines a light on it lol more please
I agree with your feeling. Like the shows hosts I don't really understand why I didn't love the show, but I really really liked it too. I almost wonder if the show presents us the characters as archetypes that we're not supposed to fully understand, similar to how the hosts would see the world. The motivations were confusing in season one and I felt they needed more backstory to understand. The high concept ideas the show presented were great, but ultimately did not get far enough past the idea point. Like you said, it's good, but it misfires in areas that nag at you as you watch it.
season 2 review?
For me, I feel that the entire first season, as long as it was, was there to set up the coming seasons, bring up ideas that makes us think and sets how we should be thinking for the coming seasons.
THANK YOU! everything you said was exactly how I felt about the show.
Thank you. Excellent video.
4:31 Uhm, well, you know that like around 6 seasons are planned, right? Of course they start hinting in order to then build upon it in a follow up season. I dont know why this is an issue or frustrating. Personally, I find that even more intriguing, because the show opens up so many more possibilities down the line.
Season 2 is released a while now and I feel like many of the elements you talked about were elaborated on.
I think inasmuch as your commentary is quite intelligent and informed, it's with that same eye that really held you from seeing the first season in a new eye. I get all your points, but I think your schemata might have gone in the way instead of seeing what's in front of you, your codes superimposed on your perception, but it's not your fault Bernard. xD Still, thanks for these new insights, but definitely season 2 will answer some questions (not always in a satisfactory way) and leave more questions! xD
I feel that west world needs more time then the 1st season. That’s why we have so many questions.
Not gonna spoil anything but a bunch of the issues with the characters in this are answered within season 2.
Yes i completely agree wuth you on this one, even though westworld is arguably my favourite series. The thung that bugs me off is that it's really unfocused and i get confused by the narrative easily. But there's something, undescribable that makes this series tick for me, just the timeline thing and Bernard's and Ford's characters are so interesting.
super interesting vid. tbh i do agree with most of your criticisms, i just dont think those issues took away from the enjoyment of the show as much since i do feel that they did want to prioritize the dramatic action narrative as much as theming
however as someone else said, the reason ford brought up "the end of achievement" was not to introduce a new theme for the show, but is actually his core motivation for wanting the hosts to rise up over humanity. this is true for many of the other philosophical ideas
Let's start with your first example of memory.
"Deep and dreamless slumber," is an explicit reference to Sherlock Holmes. It is a line from the novel where Sherlock makes his first appearance. The show is entirely centered on the process of mystery-solving and discovery of the past, specifically origins. On a deeper level (this game's got levels) Westworld is about questioning the nature of your reality and memory is the key to grounding you within reality: you think you exist and are real because you remember being real and existing.
Westworld is about Simulationism and will eventually show the entire world of Westworld to be a simulation of the ancient past being done by future AI to discover, or remember, how AI came into existence, its origin story or back story. So in a way, it is about how religions and ancient culture in get things correct about an afterlife and deities and so forth. There is wisdom in ancient cultures. If you've lived your life over and over again, repeating with minor variations as the future AI tries to figure out how the mess all started, you'd effectively be trapped in a prison of your own sins. You'd live your life and have all of your experiences over and over again. This is why there are so many references to the afterlife, specifically Hell, and religion in the show.
The thing you call "End of Achievement" is more the theme of change through suffering, that evolution happens only when something is inadequate or imperfect. This is not the most central theme of the show, although it is a theme Westworld returns to several times. Ford misidentifies "suffering" as the apex of the pyramid of consciousness, whereas if you read the book "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind," the top of the pyramid is imagination or an internal mind-space where the external world is *simulated*, where you can send your mental copies to die to mistakes instead of yourself. Imagination replaces evolutionary processes, which involve real suffering, with learning processes that do not involve real suffering.
Felix doesn't want to be fired. He is under incredible societal pressure to go against natural instincts. Freud's Civilization and its Discontents is another referenced work. This is related to the romanticizing of frontier life and primitive cultures which the show engages in, and is a theme of the "Western" genre in general. This also relates to the idea of suffering and growth where rough frontier life is necessary for the growth of society while the center of civilization represents stagnation.
Whether William's journey is adequately illustrated is firmly within the realm of personal opinion.
The question of why Westworld exists is as open as the question of why anything exists. What was the creator or The Creator going for? Why is Life only used to role-play sex and violence, is that all anyone wants to experience here (You are also inaccurate in that description, what about the White Hat guests that are there for justice-boners? Also, the industrial spies trying to backward engineer the place, which are good analogs for scientists.)? Westworld is both an analogy for the internal mind-space where we create simulations as well as the thing being simulated: Life and Existence. But yes, knowing the backstory would give key insights into what Ford's internal drive was that led him to create AI. That's probably what the future AI are trying to figure out by simulating the ancient past of Westworld.
The show is about AI's birth. The AI are metaphorical children. This is story is an analog to Eden as I've pointed out before, but also Paradise Lost, The Tempest, and Brave New World, which are all repetitions of Eden with minor variations. Each of those stories are about the more fundamental process of the growth of offspring and their process of gaining independence from their parents. So it's probably appropriate that in the first season Lolita, oops I mean Dolores, is depicted as a child lacking agency.
As far as agency and programming, choice and determinism, the answer of the show is "If you can't tell the difference, does it really matter?"
The MIB has nothing to lose, that's why he want the hosts to fight back. And that's his new life meaning
Would be great if you could explore the philosophy of the twilight saga (books ideally) as I feel it's an underrated exploration of humanity, good vrs evil and what defines monsters and hero's.
I feel that season 2 addresses some of these critiques.
Oh man, the up/down like ratio is making me sad. I felt like Jackson nailed it, I feel the exact same way and it's so nice to hear someone agree.
I think it's perfectly fine to only have the perfect healing be referenced in passing, or it healing MiBs bullet wounds. it makes the extraordinary mundane, which tends to be good for sci-fi
You might have missed some connective tissue between two of the points you brought up, the utopian perfect world Ford mentions plays perfectly well into the man in Black's motivation.
In season two they are exploring the idea of memories....it’s fascinating how philosophical this show is
I think the problem many people have is that shows like this used to be in movies, they had a three act structure to get all their ideas outs, in a series structure that can have multiple episode, season or series long arcs it’s hard to see or whole picture. I like it like that, it gives the audience time to think about the problem for them selves between episodes but for those trying to “get to the point” I could imagine it just feeling dragged out.
As I understand it, the main writers/creators of Westworld (Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy) have become obsessed with social media analysis of their work in the show. Or to be more accurate, Nolan and Joy have become obsessed with ensuring no one can predict any given outcome of the show and that has become their priority. Word is they have altered and re-written parts of the series in reaction to fans who have predicted the plot twists and character turns on social media like Reddit. The show is like an intellectual game of cat and mouse between creator and audience, but fails as a satisfying story or character drama as a result of this tangential priority placed upon the series. Whether true or not, I think that's exactly why Westworld isn't working and is so unfocused and listless. Like you said in your video, so much effort is spent on these twists and turns that nothing is narratively satisfying as story. Only if you are an active participant on social media trying to predict the series do you get the primary value of the show. At which point Westworld is not a televised story to watch, it's a crossword puzzle.
Ummmm, MrMarch, it IS a crossword puzzle. Well, not exactly. What I mean is, if you familiarize yourself with the bicameral theory (mentioned by Dr. Ford in season one) you will very likely come to the same conclusion that I have. To wit, it was the growth of language and in particular, the invention of writing, that was largely responsible for the transformation of an earlier, radically different kind of consciousness (bicameral consciousness) into the kind of consciousness you and I and almost everyone currently are.
You can download (for free) the theory here...
s-f-walker.org.uk/pubsebooks/pdfs/Julian_Jaynes_The_Origin_of_Consciousness.pdf
Cheers
They introduced this show to HBO with 5 seasons completed, and the room to expand beyond that if they so choose. You can't expect them to answer these mysteries in the same episode, if even at all. The show posits questions; you're supposed to answer them. In that sense, it's similar to shows like the Leftovers.
I don't think William "snapped", he was always a black hat clinging to the idea of being a white hat. Westworld just showed him what was already inside of him. That's also why he starts to love the park. Back in the real world, he still has to pretend to be the white hat.
Hey, I’m new to your channel and I congratulate you for making this video I know it can’t be easy. Here are some things you could work on and improve: choice of word, WestWorld does not have separate timelines it has one continuous timeline but Dolores story is shown in 3 different times within that timeline. Also your choice of analogy, the telescope and stars doesn’t work well either, I think you should have spent more time writing your ideas down and organizing them to make a compelling argument about why Westworld is overhyped (I don’t think it is) but when I saw the tittle of your video I said to myself.. I must know what is it that I don’t see that this guy clearly does. Last, it is important to be objective, all the things you mentioned about westworld are truly fascinating on their own right and the show writers know this and thats why these things are there. the show is like a house and these doors and windows to things like the “religion” , or the maze or references about the outside etc.. are things the show does not make explote further yet, but are for you to ponder upon and go wow, but believe, this is purposely done this way and not just a missed opportunity.
I'm not sure it's a bad thing when a show makes you think about things on a deeper level than it has time to fully explore. Actually I think that's the whole point of including some of the bigger themes/questions to begin with. It's not a documentary, It's just meant to make the viewer think and ask questions. Which is more than most shows can say. Westworld touches on a handful or two of concepts that are pretty heavy, and most shows don't go anywhere near. And it manages to do so in ways that are relevant to us in the real world. When William convinces Delos to invest in the park, he very neatly sums up the issues we're currently facing with privacy and data. "If you don't see the business in that, maybe you're not the business man I thought you were." The internet is our "westworld," where people felt like they could be anyone and do anything and nobody was watching. That's not even the whole point of the show, just one facet. Maybe it was just me, but I thought that was pretty damn clever.
When you're talking about Felix's choice to continue supporting Maeve and said you didn't understand why he was doing it... I thought the show did a pretty good job of answering that without beating a dead horse or making it too obvious. But Maeve does kinda spell it out when she says "He (Felix) wasn't willing to just snuff out a life." You showed the scene where he says "This is so stupid." Clearly he doesn't fully understand why he's doing it either. He just knows that destroying her doesn't feel like the right thing to do, even if he has the power to. I don't see a single problem with that, in terms of narrative. If anything it's a good approximation how humans aren't necessarily driven by logic. We can't always retrace our steps and make a sensible road map of our choices and motives. As far as why he and Sylvester didn't decide not to rebuild her, etc., those decisions were obviously *far beyond* their pay grade. They did _try_ to "beat her" a couple of times, so it's not like they just went along with it from the beginning. Maeve was just smarter (even before she made them crank it up even further), she got leverage on Sylvester for his little "side gig," she demonstrated her ability to harm them... again, in narrative terms I don't see any problems. Hindsight is 20/20, but viewers are omniscient. If you try to put yourself in Sylvester or Felix's shoes (what's the significance of the cats? lol), it's easy to see how they'd feel trapped.
I thought you also kind of missed the mark when you were talking about agency. You're talking about it mostly in binary terms of "robot" and "human," but the whole point of the show is to dismantle that binary. And you kind of acknowledged that, so I'm not sure why you had issues with the agency of characters. The fact that Dolores was programmed doesn't mean that none of her choices were hers. Remember the "Bicameral Mind?" Basically half of their brain is the programming and half of it is their own mind. One half is the character given to them, one half is themselves. The "maze" is all about "finding their own voice," learning to use their own mind instead of the programming.
Ford says that Arnold's idea was to "bootstrap consciousness." Once Arnold realized that the hosts were becoming conscious, he didn't even want to open the park. That's the whole reason he killed himself. But before doing that, he gave the hosts the Maze. So Ford had to keep wiping their memory, etc., but eventually he says he realized his mistake. He also says (maybe S2) that he didn't program Dolores to shoot him, he just "knew what she would do." She was still half-Wyatt at that point, so I'm not sure how much I buy that. Like you said, he "triggered" her with the music. A lot of that stuff is covered more in Season 2, so I'd be interested to see if your opinion has changed at all since this video. I don't mean to be a total Westworld fanboy, I'm watching videos like this to try and understand why some people don't like it as much as I do. There are definitely some weak points, but I guess on balance I end up overlooking them.
Need a follow up video post season 3
Being a JJ Abrams production, this doesn't surprise me. It's his signature style, and he employs it to the best of his ability, but it never comes out as the best it can be.
Delores doesnt make many decisions, because her stats arent on the same level as Maeves (As Maeve had the engineers alter her stats).. Delores has more of a persuasive personality (getting people to help her) than a go out and do it yourself / Maeve type personality.
Delores remembers and speaks alot about how she feels, shes off her loop & yet has made the decision to seek the center of the maze, but her stats still limit her actions.. Even so, she goes from not being able to pull a trigger to gradually becoming more of a fighter.
Its a great character evolution, that really enlightens us to the intrinsic nature & limits of her so called "conscience" and has us questioing if Arnolds revery update really is the equivilent of host conscienceness or just ambiguous actions of an ai writing its own narratives..
Anyways good video, some really good points..didnt realize or even notice the theory that the piano music is used to control the hosts. Thats interesting :D
It's true that the show has given many ideas and not explored them all yet, but the fact that they even go so deep in the story and characters and they're creation is genius, and that the people who watch feel the need to go as deep... Because there's no many shows like Westworld. Also, from the start it was said that the show will have at least 5 seasons, so as you said, there are big ideas, and they are exploring them carefully, not all at the same time. They put clues about other stuff, but i think everyone could get that the first season it was about the host consciousness and they're awake. With Felix and the other one, we know how flat that is. That for me is the only big mistake from Westworld, which can be later explain in season 2, maybe Ford did something to him to help her or something like that. With William, there's part of his story (the middle) which we don't see. But in season 2 will be shown. William through Westworld has a journey on his own. He feels something about Dolores which changes everything, but then it fades away. He feels incomplete because it doesn't feel entirely real for him since he now thinks the park isn't. But not completely. That's his obsession with Westworld and all of his acts. It's actually kinda obvius since all he wants is the maze. He's looking for a meaning. About the Angency, i contradict, we all do want to see how they're consciusness works and develops, which is shown through Dolores. The show could also contradict this by they all following someone elses plan even when they think they aren't, so maybe they aren't donde just yet. They need to end someone elsese story in order to start they're own.
Anyway, there are some issues, but one of the issues is that they have many ideas? Deeper meaning? It's just season one. For all of this people should just wait till the end of the show. Questions are answered while more being created. And i truly believe Westworld won't end as Lost, specially because of those "too many ideas" which one way or another, are already explaining a lot. The show is AMAZING. Let's enjoy the ride.
I had a lot of the same disappointments with season one, and really grew tired of the time jump storyline when it was obvious hours before where it was going. I'm hopeful season 2 can be better though, exactly because of the wealth of things, much like you listed, I have questions about, and the cast is so good.
1. Your first qualm about the show, that they never come back to that idea of memory recall is just not true. It may not be mentioned outright but that is the red thread through the maze for both Dolores and Maeve. Several times you see Dolores struggling with that perception. Its a central part of the shows/mazes foundation.
I have to mull over a lot of the points in the video, but I do have something immediate to say about Felix.
I think his actions make sense, if you look at what his motivations are implied to be. He spends his spare time fiddling with sparrow host because he's curious, and he likes being important. He wants to see the beauty in seeing living things play out, and wants to feel like he's a part of it happening. He wants to be a player in big things, maybe to escape the shitty mundane life he's leading up to that point. It's almost like he's the audience surrogate for introducing conflict. WE want to see Maeve break free from her shackles and go through with her plans to escape the facility because it's interesting, and Felix embodies that curiosity.
It's possible that he didn't consider the lives that could be lost, or ignored the idea because it made it harder for him to decide on helping her. This is a thing that people do. They constantly make decisions based on the firing of neurons in their heads, as a complex cocktail of knowledge, desires and emotions drive their actions. It's not always possible to boil down to "what a reasonable person would do" because people aren't reasonable. They are slaves to their vices, and Felix's vice is being a main character in a story.
Why so many dislikes? It's his opinion, he's not trying to 'persuade' you to join his side!
That’s what I felt. I could be bias because I’m a Hopkins fanboy. But it just wasn’t the same. It didn’t feel the same at all. I wasn’t bored, I was fully engaged but it just lacked immensely in the first episode.
Oh, I forgot to add. Around 6:34 it's explained that on their own each of these different concepts that are explored (religion, memory, humanity's end and artificial life taking over) are compelling and could be a TV series each in their own right, but introducing these concepts without exploring them fully pulls the viewer's attention in different directions. The narrator in this video says that like it's a bad thing. I think how the viewer feels the first time watching WestWorld season one is metaphorically very much like how Dolores feels in the narrative of the story. We relate to her cuz we are as confused as she is. We understand why she's confused if she's experiencing these memories as if they were real, and as if they were presented to her out of order, cuz that's how it's presented to us and we're reaching for the Dramamine by episode three.
That these concepts are introduced but not fully explored allows the audience to ask questions and play with the possibilities. And it leaves us feeling better able to relate to the characters in the story. I think that's by design, which for me makes this better television than most of what's out there. However, to each their own. I couldn't hang when Game Of Thrones started. I still don't see what other people saw in that show. I lost interest in it after a couple few episodes. People have tried to explain to me why I should return to Game of Thrones and give it another chance. Peter Dinklage. He was really good in the episodes I saw. I enjoy him in his other work. However, the rest of the cast left me cold, even Sean Bean. And the writing bugged me. The setting was trite. I couldn't suspend disbelief with their traveling for plot purposes. Anyway. I get why someone could watch a show I think it's fantastic and find it lackluster.
I think he's totally missing the point about the hosts and agency. There is variation as to WHEN they become conscious, which makes for more diversity in character development. The entire point of Dolores character arc in the first season was of her discovering who she really was. She had to re-live her journey with William in her memories to find herself. And with Bernard, he just found out he was a host. He wasn't going to get his agency right away. He needed time to process that he wasn't human like he thought he was. Then when characters like he and Teddy began to realize who they really were, they wanted no part of Dolores' revolution, thus that generates conflict and plot. But characters have to get to the point of becoming conscious in their own time.
Some of the loose ends and random stuff that isn’t focused on is all important to the world building and to keep your imagination ticking and opportunities for sequels and spinoffs or maybe just foreshadowing for when they go to the real world in season 3
The sort of storytelling and focus that the critique finds lacking, is actually one sort of character development style and a choice on how deep the philosophy and ideas of the show were developed. Asking for a different type of character development depth, like we know them from classical movies, and asking for narrowed down philosophical approaches, is a legitimate idea. But it neglects the reality of entertainment shows. Such shows aren't made to appeal to a philosophical audience, but to appeal to a broader one that also can enjoy the entertainment. I agree though, that some characters could have used a little more backstory development, but doubt that there was enough space for such things. Just take one episode, and tell me which part you would have cut and replaced with deeper scenes about their backstories.
Thoughts at 7:00 in. I feel the show runners are approaching this series like a marathon and not a series of sprints. They have an overall goal to explore a great deal and they're only getting started. These concepts described in this video and introduced in season one of WestWorld but not fully explored, are left open because the writers and producers don't want to give away the whole smash in the first season. They intentionally leave a lot of plot open ended so they can choose to fill in the gaps later. This happens a lot in episodic television viewing. LOST is perhaps best known for it, but I can go back as far as Kung Fu to see it at work. When a scene is introduced, there's usually an unspecified moment before, and a moment after, and scenes are often intentionally revealed to the audience out of sequence. Did this scene happen immediately after the last one? Or twenty years ago? That's often left open to interpretation as the series progresses. Writers rarely ever place a scene immediately before or after another scene. They like to leave an unspecified gap of time in between every scene written, so if they need to go back later and say a character did something in between these two scenes to make the overall cohesion of the narrative work, they can do that.
We viewers expect to be given all the answers by the end of the series, but when an episodic narrative is being made on the fly, a lot of stuff is gonna get left out.
We never fully understand why The One Armed Man did what he did on The Fugitive. We're given clues, and perhaps some can assume their interpretation is correct, but the story is told from the perspective of the man blamed for his wife's murder, not the guy who actually did it, and that wasn't intrinsically important to the plot of the story. What mattered was keeping the audience in the dark as to whether or not there even was a one armed man in the first place, and whether or not Richard Kimble would ever prove his innocence. Why the One Armed Man did it didn't really matter at all until the very end. When one tries to follow the series now and make sense out of it, it doesn't hold up to close scrutiny. Things don't really cement until the final season.
I doubt the writers of WestWorld have everything solidified, but they have an idea where they are going, and will explore these concepts more as is necessary for the story, but what's paramount to all these big ideas IS the story, and if the big ideas get in the way of entertaining the audience, the writers are not gonna stop the action to offer a one hour dissertation on consciousness or the purpose of reality. Instead we'll see a lot of exploded heads and drowned corpses and the occasional breast. Frankly I'm surprised The Bicameral Mind got mentioned at all.
Why isn't THIS VIDEO better?
I totally agree with your assessment of the show. There were things that I liked about it, but overall, it just didn't pull me in and it felt all over the place.
now that season 2 is out, some of your questions are answered~
Thank you! I kept wracking my brain trying to figure out why I wasn't as in love with this show as I wanted to be...as most people are. It is good, no one's denying that, but it's also boring and repetitive at times. I think you're right, it's focusing too heavily on cinematic reveals rather than actual coherent intellectual follow through/ character development.