My Unpolishable Mystery Rock
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2023
- Can everything take a polish, or are some rocks unable to be polished?
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You might look at how facetters polish quartz. They regularly complain that quartz is one of the hardest things to polish, but Vintage Time had good luck with very fine diamond powder and sewing machine oil on a metal lap.
Enjoyed your video and would like to add that I not only share your frustration.. but am going through that right now on a large Rutilated piece that I've been working on. For the life of me and I too have gone from stepping backwards to forwards, to backwards again with grit/polish/etc, but cant get a good polish. And your also correct.. very few (if any) show the disasters or fails.. they just show the 'winners'. Nice informative episode Jared.
It really can be a frustrating process when you engage with a hobby mostly through the edited lens of the internet where all of the bad stuff is filtered out and you start to think things like "do I just suck at this"...etc. but in reality all people have these kinds of problems from time to time but it just never gets shown.
Old disabled house bound dusty rusty rockhound here: on rocks like these I've used epoxy resin to give a transparent surface. It looks different that polished but it does the job.
I actually like this not so extreme polish really well. It gives the rock some more natural appearance while still bringing forth the "inner beauty".
Very appealing to me.
(Too glossy polishes have the danger to make it look as if being an artifical object.)
It is still beautiful! Maybe a flex tool polish to avoid the material from contaminating the polish area.
That could work. At some point a flex shaft tool will make its way to the shop.
Yeah, I was going to say, maybe drill out the quartz if it is just a thin sheet that is covering the crystal interior.
I think the combo of the softer polish in the center and the finer on the exterior ring only enhances the different qualities of the rock. It's pretty complex and those nuances aren't necessarily flaws if you look at them as information and descriptors. Personally I think the highest polishes have their place, especially for depth of field with translucent rock and inclusions , but generally I find rocks that are mindlessly shiny to be boring.
I think it still looks good... nice work as always. Love to see more thundereggs.
More thundereggs are always coming.
You're absolutely right the pitting is micro crystal's falling out. I polish rocks and a small percentage do that. Love your content 👍
Thanks for sharing, it makes me feel better now that more experienced people have the same problem, but they don't share. Don't change your ideas ,tell it as it is .👍
The filter of the internet and social media makes it so you would never know that people have issues like this it seems.
I've definitely missed larger scratches because water covers up a lot of smaller detail so that by the time I thought I had finished polishing up to 3k + polishing compound and looked at it under a strong light or the sun, there were still those OG scratches that I had missed so I had to start back over from the beginning. Been trying faceting on quartz/quartzite with those soft diamond polishing pads. Definitely a challenge but fun.
I have gotten into the habit now of drying rock between stages and really checking them for any scratches.
I'm thinking about adding a cheap hairdryer to the shop for blowing all the water off of them quickly.
I love that you are in the same area thay I'm in! It's so helpful since I'm a very uneducated rock hunter and have very little knowledge about what I'm collecting!
Thank you for your videos!
It’s always worth your time! Rock on, Bud
Well said.
Jared, I do not have experience on polishing rock, but I believe your correct ! If I were to try and wash my windows with a cloth that I used to oil my furniture I would never be able to get a streak free shine!
I watch a lot of Rock Hounding videos and that rock is very unique! Chalk that up to another learning experience 😊
It's a never ending learning process for sure.
I feel your pain. I'm still gaining knowledge from my polishing problems. Frustrating as it is, it is the hands on that makes us all get better results. Awesone looking Nodule though. Maybe give half to someone you know with a vibratory and see what happens. Thanks for sharing frustrations too.
Yeah it seems to be a never ending learning process.
You are not alone. I have had many experiences with my polishing projects as well. I do learn a lot from these mishaps. I have to say that when a polish comes out to my liking it's oh so...sweet! Thanks for sharing and your honesty.
It sure is nice to work with solid, unpitted rock as well.
I find a lot of nodules like this in southern Illinois, I have the same issue, I find the cerium oxide on an old flannel shirt turned into a polishing wheel does pretty good getting that central part, but I have the same problem with nodules with that spotty pattern
Seal it with epoxy resin and then go back and polish it. Sometimes you need to disregard being a purist. ( fill in the cavity for the magnification effect; and a few coats on the flat )
I was scanning the comments, looking for this suggestion. If the quartz is falling out and you love that rock, stabilize it with a resin then polish.
I have tried things like this and it never works as well as people say it does in my opinion.
Very nice, Jared!
Some of the things we've seen you polish, for this one to only get to a semigloss, It is a lesson for all of us. Some rocks might not get a full gloss.
I have a piece of Northern Illinois creek-bed chert that I keep going back and forth on. I haven't touched it for two months. It is pretty, has some distorted banding of tan and grey, but it won't get past 600 grit no mater how I work it from 180 and 300. I'm working on a slant lap, I've tried lots of water, vary speed, felt lap plate, steel lap plate...
Yeah some of them just don't want to take a polish it seems and yeah perhaps its good to talk about it from time to time.
I think you're right Jared. The quartz center is always going to be tough to polish because there are voids between crystal forms, thus leading to heat buildup at the edges of the crystals. It likely pops micro pieces off of the quartz which scratch the smoother parts.
I also wonder if the Limonite is popping too.
I think you're also spot on with lapping it for better results. Not as much heat buildup with that process.
I agree with your summary of it here. I think this one is a bit of a lost cause.
I turned a $150 michigan greenstone and turned it into a $30 one just last night because I kept chasing the pits because it kept looking like it was going to clear up and show the pattern any second. Before I realized it just wasn't, it was too late. The side had the most amazing pattern and it looked like it would wrap around and I wasn't realizing how much I was removing because it kept teasing me with spots of pattern that seemed to be coming out but then the pits kept going and I kept thinking they were going to clear up any second. If I had recognized what was going on earlier, it was big enough to have flipped and made the side the top instead, but nope! I kept goin for it :(
That can happen but its a lesson learned, even if its a costly one.
I suspect small pieces of hard material breaking free from the rock and scratching the surface too. Maybe pressure wash or steam clean the flat surface and pocket?
I agree.
I don't have this material, but I do have some that behaves the same way. This issue I think is a soft and harder material next to one another, not playing nice. I have found that if I slow my polishing speeds way down for all my steps, seems to really help get a better polish. Doesn't always work, but I have had decent success doing that on hard to polish stuff.
Real cool.😊 the outside looks good
Yeah the outside is the best part here.
Woodturners use superglue as a pen finish. It dries hard and will take a polish once it's cured. It will also help bind the loose crystals in place. If you're determined to polish it beyond what you have it may be a way to go.
I have heard many people suggest using fillers but I have never seen it done in a way that I think looks good but I would love to figure out a good way to do it.
Unpolishable mystery rock - you had me at the title! :D Perfect polish or not, I like it all the same. A vibratory flat lap MIGHT give you a better polish on the harder areas, but you'd still have that center of quartzy holes that would remain unpolished.
It's almost more neat looking on the outside than the inside.
I think it's gorgeous!
Thank you.
There's a lot of air bubbles in there that wouldn't reflect so well, maybe see how bubbled it is under the microscope.
I didn't think to look at it under the microscope but I will now.
Attempted to polish some beach rocks from Murdock beach in the tumbler. Only a few turned out. The others were partially coated with polish but were splotchy looking. Someone else told me they had the same experience with rocks from that beach. Go figure!
Yeah sometimes they just don't work out well it would seem.
It's a mystery "what is it?" "where is it from?" Hardness? You have so many viewers, maybe someone knows. What's inside the vug or void? I love when you do investigation
That looks a LOT like the interesting geodes I’ve been chasing! The outside husk and the inside!!! I’m not sure where they’re from either (their in Missouri obviously but it’s all alluvial I’m not sure where the source is). That’s definitely something from the Midwest! I’m guessing Kentucky or Missouri. The one I tried to polish had similar issues but I just chalked it up to my lack of experience
I think its just not holding together. I'm going to go with blaming the material and not myself here! :)
You have a lot of pits, you may be contaminating it with the coarser grits and then reintroducing them with the finer giving an intermediate result. Just a thought.
I was washing it out really well with hot water and dish soap between grits but that could have still been an issue.
Might hit a test piece with the ultrasonic in between stages.
It's still a very cool nodule. I think the polish is acceptable. I have had that issue when tumbling rocks and have had one rock ruin a whole batch. Softer minerals or pieces pop off and scratch the other rocks ruining the batch. I agree that it looks like tiny quartz pieces popping off and keeping it from taking that killer shine were used to seeing from you 😁
Thank you.
I also had that issue when tumbling rocks where one would like blowup on the last stage and I would have to go back...etc. I now no longer hang a tumbler for the very reason, passive lapidary just isn't my thing.
Ta-da
On tough stuff..
Oops I did it again..
clear gloss
May be from Kentucky or Iowa. Sometimes they look like that. Due to the number of pits and impurities you're not going to be able to get the kind of shine you usually get. I'm also curious if there is some oil residue in there that is coming out as the rock heats up with the high speed sander and the carpet buffer. Be careful of contamination. As for the flat lap, you would get grit inside all of those pits and it would be a nightmare to get it all out. Sometimes it's ok to just accept it as is and move on.
I was hoping you would watch and chime in on this video with your thoughts, thank you!
Perhaps with the pits on it and despite my best cleaning it just wasn't enough.
I'm guilty of not knowing when to call it with some of these rocks and from reading the comment here I guess I'm not the only one.
Bigger flat surfaces just take much longer to work. I've had to use my angle grinder with the pads for bigger stuff and even then - it takes a while.
You wanna have a go at one these? :)
@@CurrentlyRockhounding sounds like a fun challenge!
I’ve always wondered with lapidary work… Do you keep stuff that turns out below your expectations? Like an “almost but not quite” pile out in the backyard? 😅
Ha! I have a really big pile going in the backyard at this point.
@@CurrentlyRockhounding hey, sure beats having more grass to mow
You are 100% correct
The rock is contaminated itself as you polish.
I've had the same issue with many types of agate and and few others.
I would change the wheel thinking it was damaged and same issue.
I even bought a couple new wheels. Lol
All to realize the rock is doing it. 😅
You can find a few so called remedies to help but they don't work for me ?
It is for sure a frustrating endeavor isn't it.
Maybe it just isn't Solid irs got rusty vugs. So throughout is just full of micropockets I geuss. I think you're right a vibratory tumbler would free the particles that would break loose and fall to the bottom and not foul up your efforts
Happens to me just about every day. Just about every day I have to do this because i accidently press too hard on my expandable drum or I Nick the side of the belt and leave an 80 grit scratch when I am just finishing up a 600 or 800 grit. I have several large peices from graveyard point that turned out to be a smorgasbord of patterns that looked hideous and or even worse, they looked great but wouldn't take a polish.
I have some nodules from Kentucky that look very similar to that one
That’s better than a matte finish to me. Chalk this one up to added experience…
Thank you.
Looks like a Kentucky rock lol
In my opinion that’s a fabulous rock!
Thank you.
I'm curious if the reason for the inability to polish it isn't so much from the materials, or the machinery, or even the owner (though it would be fun to pick on you for your inability to polish a freggin rock lmfao); as much as it could be the compounds and structure of the rock itself.
Question; have you taken the rock over and looked at the structure of the quartz through a microscope to see how grainy or pitted the material is? Also, have you considered the possibility that the rock is reacting to the moisture or vibrations, thus making the sanding way harder than it should?
When I was looking at the reflections, all I could think of was the possibility of the rock just being too pitted and/or somehow cupped in the center to a point that it was polishing at a different rate than the outer edges, or that the speed of the sander was just too slow for the needs that it was trying to reach. Who knows.
Anyway, keep us posted on any new developments and thank you for posting this video!!
It really didn't occur to me to look at it under the microscope. That's the next step with this I think.
@@CurrentlyRockhounding let me know what, if anything you find! I'm curious as well. :-)
I sometimes get rocks where some slightly softer minerals undercut and "pop out" leaving a matt finish from the tiny dents.
It's frustrating isn't it.
Did you give it a go on the Richardson high speed? I’ve had those pock marks on specimens before. I try to get the outside agate looking as good as possible for display. Send a half to your buddy who you did the comparison video with to see what he can come up with. Might be more video content?
I did try it on the Richardson's as well with no success, I was hoping that the speed and light pressure would be the fix but it was a no go with it.
Looks like a geode . I love just not cutting them
❤
What is the difference between darker sections and the quartz under magnification? I would really like to see the surface
Ill put it under the microscope.
Some are unable to be polished. Too much cracks, too many holes, too brittle, too many impurities....
I think this one might land in the too brittle category or just that spot in the middle isn't holding together.
A dinosaur turd….?
4:57
I'm thinking it's the shape? Vibratory lap might actually work.
I would be happy to give half of this to someone who had a vib lap if they wanted to test and send me a photo of it finished if it worked out well.
i wonder if all that porous surface is catching grit and then contaminating the next grit. perhaps the same problem wouldn't come up in a vibratory lap.
That might be happening but I was washing between stages.
Hit it with a sand blaster😅...
Thought you got a Flat Lap to refurbish in SNS #124?
For a number of reasons it didn't work well in my shop. I did refurbish it and end up selling it. I have inconsistent power going to my shop and the space is really hot or really cold which makes passive lapidary like tumbling or vibratory polishing a problem.
Darn I want to know what that is. The outside shape screams thunderegg but it appears to be lacking rhyolite. I have never been able to get quartz core thundereggs to polish any better than that.
I might be wrong here but I really don't think it's a thunderegg.
Perhaps were doing something wrong?
@@CurrentlyRockhounding I don't think it's an egg either, since it doesn't have a shell, or pressure ridges. Have you looked at the dull spots under your microscope to see if they are solid to start with? If they aren't well formed, they won't polish.
Have you tried soaking it in muriatic acid? It might eat away at some of the softer stone particles inside.
That is not something I have tried.
try to polish it with tin and hard merino wool!
What makes you suggest that?
@@CurrentlyRockhounding i always try to polish stones who breaks out smal parts with tin an the wool, sometimes it works realy good, mostly with green chrome based stones what are also often unpolishable with ceroxide or aluminiumoxyde.
Hard to do flat surfaces on a wheel.
Why do you think that? You move the flat surface over the contact area of the wheel and it's fine. I've done it countless times as well as many other people.
I don't think the wheel has anything to do with it.
Don't *_have_* one?? (vibratory polisher)
Isn't this the fateful moment when you go *_get_* one?
What kind of Man are you?
Bkack Canada opal. Crock wwith sugar and
personally, i'm over high-sheen minerals -- looks over the top artificial, manipulated, overdone, like vegas. excessive shine gets in the way of the seeing. i greatly prefer a natural matte look.
I think you will find that is an opinion held by very few people.
@@CurrentlyRockhounding been a lifelong matrix outlier, i'm use to it... missed a turn somewhere along the way.
Looks like a fossil.
Specifically, that may be the issue. The plant tissue is more porous than a standard rock, and it was "permineralized".
It is not a fossil.