This video is about the history and the way the ever so popular MCI J4500 bus has evolved over the years. Special thanks to Rich Deyoung. Vice President of Motor Coach Industries.
I drove the EL3 and to this day it is still the best North American built coach I have driven. I had it for 5 years starting in 98 and never had any problems with it. It took about 2 weks to get use to it but after that it was great and never did anything that surprised me.
@@MotorcoachWorld we had 8 of them and the bigest problem we had was the first week when one coach had the wiring harness for the engine become disconnected with the engine. It was towed back and after several hours of communication with MCI one of our apprentice mechanics spotted the problem. After that other than routine maintenance it was all good. As for your dislike of the Ford tail lights they saved my but because of their availability. At night while in Seattle some came along and smashed both tail light assemblies. My work for the day was to jyst take the group to the airport at noon so our chief mechanic had me go to a ford dealership and by 2 assemblies and hada Holland America Westours mechanic come and and install them. By 10:30 is was up and running.
Excellent! After making a drastic mistake on buying a waterlogged 89 Winnebago, a write off, a friend led me to a 99 EL3. He was the mechanic and builder for it, in perfect shape mechanically. Says its the perfect platform for a motorhome conversion. He built a $2m conversion on this platform that absolutely left me in awe when I saw it last night. I've seen 100 videos on conversions and nothing, even today's most expensive coaches come close to this one. It is in Salmon Arm BC. That and this video have inspired me to take the motorcoach world step into the new world as I embark on this journey. This video gave me the confidence to proceed.. Many thanks. I will have to do a video of Lionel's coach. It is unlike anything ever made, gorgeous beyond words.
The company I drive for has an almost all MCI fleet. Mostly J’s and D’s, but a few ‘98 E coaches. The J’s are 2009-2010, and 2018. The D’s are solid and reliable but just look old. I have noticed the difference between the E’s and J’s. The E’s like to start rocking back and forth on the road with the self leveling system acting up. But the steering tag sure is nice! One of the E’s has over 802,000 miles on it! The new J’s are in my opinion the perfect choach. The J’s are the easiest coach to drive. Really love them. I’ve driven Vanhool and Prevost as well, but my favorites are still the 2018 + J’s.
I’ve had the privilege to ride the newer post 2018 J4500... one thing that stands out, is the ride. We take these buses to and from a Gold mine in Ontario Canada. Great ride. Fake gauges on a display like a modern car was also a sweet touch.
the upper luggage/docking lights are a lifesaver when chaining up at night. i leave the front door cracked ever so slightly so they stay on. and the fact that they illuminate on whichever side blinker you activate(up to 3mph i think) when turning is also a nice touch.
I did notice one detail that you had left out between the 1st and 2nd generation J4500 - The addition of the corner marker lamps on the front of the coach. The first iteration of the E and J series coaches omitted the two amber front-facing marker lamps on the top left and top right corners, leaving the center ICC cluster lights. The new J4500s reintroduced these, and I'm so happy they did. That was the one thing that absolutely drove me up the wall about the 1st generation, it looked so strange at night without those corner lamps!
I drove for Peter Pan Bus Lines and they had all three bus styles and I loved them all. Now I'm working with NJ Transit and they're using the workhorse
Hey Mario Manuel Martinez Garnica! Thanks for the comment. The D's were and still are great motor coaches. I wish MCI kept making them. At least the 4505's.
I happened to be driving in Vernon BC a few days ago when I saw 2 new 2020 J 4500s in a hotel parking lot, during a rest stop. I dropped in instantly. They were absolutely gorgeous white magnificent coaches. I was stunned at their lines, beauty, shape. Seeing it up close is an experience to be remembered. You just gotta see it up close, touch it, sense it. amazing. Talked to the driver, he shared some thoughts. Wonderful ride. Very quiet. handles beautifully. Better than Prevosts in every way except power. But then again, all of that is programmable by the owner. I just recently ended up buying a 1999 El3, with a 525 hp Detroit Diesel, transmission retarder, good shape, but black, which i wiil paint white. Your video inspired me to go ahead with the deal after watching it 6 times, plus a ton of research too. As Bruce Coach said to me during the process, these are magnificent coaches, With the work and the conversion, i will basically end up with a J4500 , 10" taller and 2 slides. And all affordable. Can't thank you enough for this extremely well done history account of this series. Dave
Thank you so much for your videos, they are a blessing to me. I'm a young aspiring entrepreneur working towards starting my own charter bus company. Your videos are extremely helpful and I most greatly appreciate you taking the time to make these videos. Thank you soo much
Having been a helicopter mechanic for over 45 years I can tell about maintenance. We used oil samples and preflight/ post flight inspections. This system works we also used lean to help with supplies
This was super informative and very good. Always fasten your seatbelt when your driver informs you too. And do not get caught in the restroom when entering traffic. LOL never saw it but I would believe the driver that said it could be embarrassing. 🤣
7:09 yes we did use the Ford lights, I remember them sitting on desks in the E engineering room. It’s expensive to get FMVSS certification. I worked on the D cooling fixes for C10/M11/Series60 with a B500
James, I drove a 2007 J4500 today to ORD from Purdue. Saw a Peoria Charter coach and hoped it was you, but it wasn't. Came home to watch this video for the fifth time! Thanks for the content. :)
Hi School bus guru! Thanks for the comment. Im glad to hear that people are enjoying and learning from my content. Love your channel by the way. Stay tuned for more videos.
I noticed your hat has New Flyer on it. New Flyer, formerly Western Flyer is Winnipeg's other bus manufacturer. Winnipeg is also home to MCI. While both Western Flyer/New Flyer and MCI were rivals for years, ironically NFI purchased MCI a few years back. Flyer built both transit and motorcoaches until the late 70's when they got out of the coach business to concentrate on transit buses. While MCI was mainly into motorcoaches and did dabble with transit briefly, MCI finally got into transit buses in 1987 when parent Greyhound-dial purchased GM's transit bus business. However MCI sold off the transit business to Quebec bus builder Nova Bus which was later purchased by Prevost.
Bro...your videos are AMAZING!!! My name is Carl...and I'm a BusNut! For a couple years now I have been dreaming about doing my own bus conversion (not because it makes financial sense, but because I like doing this sort of thing). And I fell in love with the MCI J4500 the very first time I saw that curved entry staircase!!! I've enjoyed many of your videos, but this one is fantastic and is a MUST WATCH for anyone looking to buy up a used coach for a conversion. I'm still working on my plans, saving my pennies, and enjoying our sticks-n-staples RV as I do some enhancements and modifications and learn about the DOs and DONTs of the RV systems. Please keep up the content...and I'll see you over on Patreon soon!!
Nice man! Appreciate your kind words. I wish you all the luck man. These things are money pits sometimes but they sure are fun to play with once you own one.... or 60 LOL
I used to ride Prevosts and MCIs mainly the E model in summer day camp going from the Jewish Community Center to the DoubleTree Ranch in my childhood until the DoubleTree ranch got torn down but, still rode them to outings in Summer day camp during my early teen years. I also rode an MCI j4500 on 2 long-distance field trips in my days of high school. MCI buses are the best.
I love the time and effort you take to educate us on our coaches. I would like for you to do the MC-8 & MC-9 coaches. I am giddy over the D, Renaissance, H3 and J coaches. Having driven them all I love the fact you are showing us the history behind these models. Keep up the good work and the good videos.
Thank you! Appreciate the kind words. I do enjoy meeting fellow bus nuts like your self. It gives me drive to keep making these! I will definitely do videos on the MC8 and MC9 down the road!
@MotorcoachWorld hi I would like to have some information on the J4500 is the 2001 and 2002 the ones with the least trouble of the J4500 and the least amount of electronics
Great video! Another innovation from the D to E was use of a tubular stainless steel frame. I expect to see E and J chassis rolling down the roads for many years to come.
This channel finally addresses things that I have been wondering about for years. I drive H3-45 motorcoaches part-time and seasonal, and thanks to you I am now less hesitant to accept an assignment with a J4500 if it was ever offered to me again (three different EL3 coaches left me stranded 7 times as a passenger in one ski season, with sticking disc brakes and glowing rotors, crippling electric and electronic issues). Your attention to detail is outstanding! I eagerly await more reviews of different motorcoaches (and their powertrains too)!
Ouch. I know a coach builder who has maintained, the E hockey coach for a decade. Never had a problem like that. There are 7 identical electronic boxes inside the ekectrical compartments, front and midships. If one fails, drop in another spare and you are on you way.
Love it. The J4500 is the epitome of the idea that you can make changes without changing the platform and/or concept. So in other words, the best remains unchanged. One thing that you forgot. The original engine in the E was the DETROIT DIESEL S60 that had selectable HP ratings.
Drove el3 on charters back when they first came out and only problem i had with it was the Jake brake quit working. It was not a fun time coming out of Yellowstone but made the rest of the way.
This video brings back memories I used to work on the J4500’s I remember when I started working on busses in 2004 they had 4 brand new one I miss working on motor coaches I still work on busses transit busses Gilligs not as fun as motor coaches
we owned an 06 J4500 and we loved it, until we needed parts. After several unsuccessful attempts to get parts over the phone and from the Winnipeg shop without giving them our tax returns. we sold the bus and went to Prevost. Best choice we ever made. We will never consider MCI an option again.
You don’t see nearly as many luxury tour/RV buses with an MCI chassis. I’ve always wondered why I mostly see Prevost in that category. I’ve been really interested in class A motorhomes and buses recently, so I’m glad UA-cam recommended this channel. It’s been really informative. I’ve already watched a bunch of your videos, and I’m looking forward to more!
Hey Thank you for your kinds words. Means a lot to me. Prevost's have the reputation for being a more comfortable ride. Also they are larger which means they can fit more equipment as well as offer more square footage on board. not by much but every inch counts on a motor home.
Prevost developed their coaches to be able to be converted tour buses / luxury motor homes with factory slides. MCI was much later to the game and as a result, fewer custom shops were used to their coaches and tended to recommend Prevost.
Correct. Prevost made an effort to have conversion shells with up to 4 slide outs. MCI did not do that, hence, Prevosts had a clear advantage. If you want slide outs on an MCI, you have to engineer your own. Big job. A Prevost shell with 3 slides is $1m cdn. Ouch.
At the company I work for, we have all MCI models talked about in this episode, 1994 DL4500, 2000 E4500, 2004 J4500 2014 J4500 2015 J4500 w/ independent suspension system and 1 so far 2019 J4500 (haven't driven that one yet) to me the best 2 models were the DL4500 and the first gen J4500. As my company took delivery of a new fleet of the 2014 J4500's, they took away all our 2004 J 4500 and gave them to Chicago Classic Coach (those were the green ones at first) as we merged with that company but run under 2 separate names. So now my new favorite is those 2014 J4500 non steer tags.
Funny fact lol .. NFI’s limited production coach actually shared it’s headlights with with the Ford Econoline. NFI wasn’t shy about sharing that. Literally.
James, I have an idea. Why not do a video on those who have taken the MCI D's, E's and the J's to an RV conversion level, using these platforms to build on. If Prevost has this market in its grip because they will cater to them with custom builds, like extra roof heights, slides and whatever else, MCI conversions have also happened. The results are quite amazing, really are. Not that many, but the results are there for sure. I know that Liberty and Marathon do the conversions on a Prevost shell because they come from the factory ready to do the insides, where MCI does not anymore. Too bad, because the MCI is a gorgeous bus. I have seen a 1998 E converted and it is beyond belief, not a straight line inside, done by Bruce Coach in Salmon Arm BC. They have 12,000 hours in that bus! Indeed, he says that he prefers the MCI over Prevosts from 37 years experience, says that the MCI is simply better made overall with better materials and design. so he says. Whatever, it would be an interesting topic if you can do something like that. Other topics could be 2: the technical stuff. For instance, I saw last week, the 10 electric cooling fans used on the radiators and no more mechanical fans. Blew me away (groan). 3: Or the a/c systems so good that it can refrigerate a bus during death valley during a heat wave. 4: Or watching the tag axle counter steer - that was cool. 5: Or watching the instrument cluster do its new computer screen thing. 6: Or getting a walk through with a mechanic doing their thing in repairs, maintenance. 7: Or getting a techy explaining the motor options, horsepower, torque, dialing in power levels, governing, etc. 8: Or getting how the bus is actually made at the factory level - fascinating stuff 9: Or how the outside skin in made and attached 10: Or how the bus is safety certified in crash tests etc. Just some ideas. . . .
Also, one correction. The steerable tag axle was available since the D series. Trans Bridge out of PA as well as Academy Bus in NJ both had D4000s and D4500s with sterrable tags. We had a few as well, early model D4500 silverside commuters but we locked them out, since we did most highway driving. I think Academy and TB also locked them out after a fly by night operator had a big crash around the early 2000s, due to the tag axle. The bus wasnt the flaw, the driver turned hard, and failed to turn the tax axle steering off, which swung the rear of the bus out enough that when he changed lanes (hard) the back hit an overpass, the bus swung around....and well...there was nothing left. The bus was towed in two pieces, and people were hurt and worse. So yeah, you gotta keep on eye out on that. Ive said this many times. Buses are closer to airliners than cars. They are built more like planes (and Ive been a mechanic for both buses and aircraft), and they drive similar to airliners, as far as being aware and in control of every system, and not slacking off.
So I believe the D's tag axles were free turning but they did not actually steer when the front tires steer. At least that what the techs at MCI taught me. the E model and the newer J models Tag axles actually turn when you turn the front wheels. The D's only turned when there was enough force against it as the coach made turns.
@@MotorcoachWorld Now that I dont know since ours never turned. Im trying to recall..going back a while how those coaches behaved. I remember seeing one do some parallel parking (in NY in Port Authority its a common and mandatory thing to be able to do) and I took photos of the tag while it turned, but I cant say for sure if it was merely the pressure of the turn or steer controlled. I have to look them up because I took sequential shots..back in the days of film lol
@@MisterLongShot_Official Yes. they were free steer. We used to call them steer axles among us, and well, it has been 20 years since then lol, so, from steer axle, to steerable, memory got corrupted lol. And photos dont show the lack of a steer linkage.
Really cool. I didnt know there were others like me. I used to drive MC9s, As, Bs, Cs, Ds and once an E 4500. Once day I want to add a few MCIs to my collection. So far, I only have two Romanian buses that I imported...Yes. SOme poeple bring in Skylines, I bring in an old city bus lol.
Wait I bought a 99 el3 renaissance this past summer, hopefully it'll keep working well with the electronics (gold bricks). Making a motorhome with it...
Hey James, great video! Best breakdown of MCI coach evolution I’ve seen, I found it very helpful. Can’t wait to see what else you publish! We are about to be in the market for a coach to convert into a full-time lived in RV. I’ve found a few dealers around the country plus several classified type sites, and then there’s always Craigslist and FB Marketplace. I’m curious about what you and other charter lines do with your coaches when it comes time to retire them. Do you turn to a reseller or dealer, list them on a marketplace yourself, or maybe there’s some kind of auction environment? What are the reasons you might retire a coach? Is there anything we should keep an eye out for to avoid trouble down the road? DIY coach conversions are becoming kind of a big thing it seems. I’m sure a lot of viewers out there would love any information geared toward their projects. Thanks again for posting, looking forward to more!
Thank you Jeff baysinger. Appreciate the comment. I just released another video just minutes ago regarding how we perform maintenance to our fleet. Usually when we retire a coach we list it on busforsale.com. A large company like us will retire them with still lots of life left. Small companies try to squeez as much as they can out of them because their funds are limited. You can also try searching for use coaches from MCI dealers. they have a very specific used coach department and they have a lot more to choose from. Things I would look for are rust. A lot of the older d models will have problems where the wheel struts are pushing through the floor. Definitely check for bulges in the floor around the rear of the coach. Definitely check to see if there's pools of any kind of fluid under the coach where it's parked. Also big thing to check is rust in the electronics compartment right below the driver's window. If there's a lot of rust and corrosion in there you're looking at a lot of electrical problems that's going to cost a lot of money
Amazing video, keep up the great work! Also could you do a Vid on how you guys maintenance on the bus snd how you get them ready for trips and over the road work
@@MotorcoachWorld No Thank you🤝 I very much appreciate what you are doing to gain awareness to the Motor Industry. Also you are helping people like me, who aspire to be a MotorCoach operator later down the line👍
Wow! you're just down the street! That's Awesome! Hit me up sometime. Ill take you out to lunch. Im in Peoria once or twice a month visiting the Peoria Facility.
When MCI introduced the J4500, it renamed the D3 and DL3 to the D4000 and D4500. The EL3 was renamed the E4500. NCI also introduced the F3500, a 35 ft coach and a G4500 coach made for Greyhound.
Hi James ! Just subscribed and love your channel so far ! Quick question , we just purchased an 09 J4500 but the previous owner removed the DVD control device for the TVS and the wifi/routers. This is my first bus, any tips on modern console equipment for TVS and WiFi ? Again , love your videos , thanks ! God Bless
@@MotorcoachWorld Can’t wait, will you do any of them on the MCI D45 CRT LE and D4520? Like the difference between the local versus the Charter Coach edition?
Can you get information on a person like me that is looking to buy a MCI J3500 and want to get contracts from major bus companies to run shorter less dense routes... Or in a nutshell if I have a MCI J3500 where can I start looking for routes thru the transportation agency...?
You didn't mention the digital dashboards on the 2018 with the 360 degree camera views. I just wish they would raise the dash display for taller folks like me,
The rear cap on the E and J are different. The E cap is more square at the top. Did all the Js come with multiplex ? Or did some have the gold bricks ? Good video !
LOL cool! Send me a pic if you have one LOL. Jwang@peoriacharter.com. We started to phase out our D models to reduce the inventory of parts. If we kept to the same model of coaches we would have less parts to keep on hand and there for reducing our cost on inventory.
Awesome video! I just have one question though: at 1:34 is the MCI 102DL3/D4500's height really just 10 feet 6 inches? I thought it was 11 feet 5 inches
Hi I think I tried to ask you this before but can't find it. What is your understanding of coach driver safety in a front collision with another vehicle, even a car? Is the driver likely to be significantly injured or lose his life? There isn't much between driver and front bumper! Thanks Nathan.
Hey Nathan Barnard. Thats a very good question. I have often thought about this myself. You are definitely right about not being too much between the driver and the car in front. I think it's a issue that most coach makers avoid. I think if it were a situation between a coach and a car the coach would be tall enough to avoid any issues but with a semi something with that tall of a flat surface I don't think the driver would have a chance.
Personally, I'm on some James Bond shiznit when it comes to driving. You ain't got to tell me but once then I get by on experience. I'm an ex-bus driver.
Damn you now I want a J4500 and I don't even need one ,,hey if you remove some of the seats just think of room you would have when you go to the store food shopping
I thought the d4500s were 11ft and 5inches tall and the h3-45s were 12ft and 5 inches. The new j4500s some has rear windows and but no bathroom sinks. It's awesome the roof exits some has it clear see through
You're welcome. Does newer coaches still use Detroit Diesel Series 60s? I know most companies use the DD13 or DD15. Or the Cummins Isx 12 or x15. No one really uses the Caterpillars anymore
@@jackjack6199 Hey Sorry I missed this comment! Detroit is pulling out of the over the road market. Soon the predominant engines going in to coach buses will be Volvo and Cummins. Cat has completely pulled out of the over the road market. Personally they made a poor engine and there was a class action lawsuit for that.
Hey no worries. So Detroit won't be making engines anymore soon. Cummins are nice. I haven't been in a Volvo engine bus yet ha. Wonder how they on the road
Amazing video and the D model was called “The Work Horse” by many. Still dependable
Hey Jacori82. I love the D model. Yes I have heard it called that too. Too bad they don't make them anymore.
I’m mesmerized by this stuff
Haha! I am glad you are enjoying it. Thank you so much for writing!
I drove the EL3 and to this day it is still the best North American built coach I have driven. I had it for 5 years starting in 98 and never had any problems with it. It took about 2 weks to get use to it but after that it was great and never did anything that surprised me.
Thanks for the comment! Im glad you had good luck with them. However most owners of the E model did not have the same luck.
@@MotorcoachWorld we had 8 of them and the bigest problem we had was the first week when one coach had the wiring harness for the engine become disconnected with the engine. It was towed back and after several hours of communication with MCI one of our apprentice mechanics spotted the problem. After that other than routine maintenance it was all good.
As for your dislike of the Ford tail lights they saved my but because of their availability. At night while in Seattle some came along and smashed both tail light assemblies. My work for the day was to jyst take the group to the airport at noon so our chief mechanic had me go to a ford dealership and by 2 assemblies and hada Holland America Westours mechanic come and and install them. By 10:30 is was up and running.
Another informative video! Great to be a bus nut! Thanks again!
I love ❤️ to ride on all types of motor coach buses with different styles
I love your channel. I'm a fan of American Buses.
Excellent! After making a drastic mistake on buying a waterlogged 89 Winnebago, a write off, a friend led me to a 99 EL3. He was the mechanic and builder for it, in perfect shape mechanically. Says its the perfect platform for a motorhome conversion. He built a $2m conversion on this platform that absolutely left me in awe when I saw it last night.
I've seen 100 videos on conversions and nothing, even today's most expensive coaches come close to this one. It is in Salmon Arm BC.
That and this video have inspired me to take the motorcoach world step into the new world as I embark on this journey.
This video gave me the confidence to proceed.. Many thanks. I will have to do a video of Lionel's coach. It is unlike anything ever made, gorgeous beyond words.
The company I drive for has an almost all MCI fleet. Mostly J’s and D’s, but a few ‘98 E coaches. The J’s are 2009-2010, and 2018.
The D’s are solid and reliable but just look old.
I have noticed the difference between the E’s and J’s. The E’s like to start rocking back and forth on the road with the self leveling system acting up. But the steering tag sure is nice! One of the E’s has over 802,000 miles on it!
The new J’s are in my opinion the perfect choach.
The J’s are the easiest coach to drive. Really love them. I’ve driven Vanhool and Prevost as well, but my favorites are still the 2018 + J’s.
I’ve had the privilege to ride the newer post 2018 J4500... one thing that stands out, is the ride. We take these buses to and from a Gold mine in Ontario Canada. Great ride. Fake gauges on a display like a modern car was also a sweet touch.
the upper luggage/docking lights are a lifesaver when chaining up at night. i leave the front door cracked ever so slightly so they stay on. and the fact that they illuminate on whichever side blinker you activate(up to 3mph i think) when turning is also a nice touch.
Kyle pesely, I know what you mean! I love those lights. I wish all coaches have them!
I just love your videos and you look just like my brother in law .................
Lol thanks Sammy. Is he Chinese too?
Excellent videos thank you.
I did notice one detail that you had left out between the 1st and 2nd generation J4500 - The addition of the corner marker lamps on the front of the coach. The first iteration of the E and J series coaches omitted the two amber front-facing marker lamps on the top left and top right corners, leaving the center ICC cluster lights. The new J4500s reintroduced these, and I'm so happy they did. That was the one thing that absolutely drove me up the wall about the 1st generation, it looked so strange at night without those corner lamps!
I drove for Peter Pan Bus Lines and they had all three bus styles and I loved them all. Now I'm working with NJ Transit and they're using the workhorse
I miss driving DL3's They were good coaches. Just wish they had the turning radius of the J model
Thank you, again, for filling in the intricate history of the evolution of the modern Motor Coach. Nice job, as always.
Nice video!! We call the D model "the old reliable". But J4500 is gorgeous.
Hey Mario Manuel Martinez Garnica! Thanks for the comment. The D's were and still are great motor coaches. I wish MCI kept making them. At least the 4505's.
Ty. Very interesting! I'm not even into busses but i watched the whole thing.
Another great history lesson and video! Thanks
Hi Brian Chamberlain! thank you for the comment and compliment!
I happened to be driving in Vernon BC a few days ago when I saw 2 new 2020 J 4500s in a hotel parking lot, during a rest stop. I dropped in instantly.
They were absolutely gorgeous white magnificent coaches. I was stunned at their lines, beauty, shape. Seeing it up close is an experience to be remembered. You just gotta see it up close, touch it, sense it. amazing.
Talked to the driver, he shared some thoughts. Wonderful ride. Very quiet. handles beautifully. Better than Prevosts in every way except power. But then again, all of that is programmable by the owner.
I just recently ended up buying a 1999 El3, with a 525 hp Detroit Diesel, transmission retarder, good shape, but black, which i wiil paint white.
Your video inspired me to go ahead with the deal after watching it 6 times, plus a ton of research too.
As Bruce Coach said to me during the process, these are magnificent coaches, With the work and the conversion, i will basically end up with a J4500 , 10" taller and 2 slides. And all affordable.
Can't thank you enough for this extremely well done history account of this series.
Dave
Guy you were awesome thanks so much for the info
Thank you so much for your videos, they are a blessing to me. I'm a young aspiring entrepreneur working towards starting my own charter bus company. Your videos are extremely helpful and I most greatly appreciate you taking the time to make these videos. Thank you soo much
Thanks for your kind words. Means a lot to me. I wish you all the luck in your endeavors!
As James said, DON'T DO IT. You will lose your shirt!
Truly like your page! I love buses and this page is my go to for tips, tricks and history!!
I have the same hat! Thanks for the video - Was very informative for a bus nut like myself! 😉
Hey Nathan Snyder! Great minds think alike! Especially in hats 😜
Thank you for your comment! Appreciate it.
It was interesting segment.
Having been a helicopter mechanic for over 45 years I can tell about maintenance. We used oil samples and preflight/ post flight inspections. This system works we also used lean to help with supplies
Hands down the most detailed breakdown of the MCI busses I’ve seen to date! Very informative, looking forward to more content!
Thank you so much Im favrr! Appreciate your kind words. Stay tuned. More on the way!
This was super informative and very good. Always fasten your seatbelt when your driver informs you too. And do not get caught in the restroom when entering traffic. LOL never saw it but I would believe the driver that said it could be embarrassing. 🤣
lol We had a few stories like that. Thank you Beryl White!
7:09 yes we did use the Ford lights, I remember them sitting on desks in the E engineering room. It’s expensive to get FMVSS certification.
I worked on the D cooling fixes for C10/M11/Series60 with a B500
@Camila Secord do the lights mount the same way as the Ford van? Meaning aftermarket versions could be swapped?
@@MisterLongShot_Official As far as I remember yes, that was a long time ago but pretty sure we did as little mods as possible.
James, I drove a 2007 J4500 today to ORD from Purdue. Saw a Peoria Charter coach and hoped it was you, but it wasn't. Came home to watch this video for the fifth time! Thanks for the content. :)
Wow supper informative I Didn’t know some of the things you said until now
Hi School bus guru! Thanks for the comment. Im glad to hear that people are enjoying and learning from my content. Love your channel by the way. Stay tuned for more videos.
Excellent video, what I'd like to see is a complete history of MCI from as far back as you can go to now.
I noticed your hat has New Flyer on it. New Flyer, formerly Western Flyer is Winnipeg's other bus manufacturer. Winnipeg is also home to MCI. While both Western Flyer/New Flyer and MCI were rivals for years, ironically NFI purchased MCI a few years back. Flyer built both transit and motorcoaches until the late 70's when they got out of the coach business to concentrate on transit buses. While MCI was mainly into motorcoaches and did dabble with transit briefly, MCI finally got into transit buses in 1987 when parent Greyhound-dial purchased GM's transit bus business. However MCI sold off the transit business to Quebec bus builder Nova Bus which was later purchased by Prevost.
Bro...your videos are AMAZING!!! My name is Carl...and I'm a BusNut! For a couple years now I have been dreaming about doing my own bus conversion (not because it makes financial sense, but because I like doing this sort of thing). And I fell in love with the MCI J4500 the very first time I saw that curved entry staircase!!! I've enjoyed many of your videos, but this one is fantastic and is a MUST WATCH for anyone looking to buy up a used coach for a conversion. I'm still working on my plans, saving my pennies, and enjoying our sticks-n-staples RV as I do some enhancements and modifications and learn about the DOs and DONTs of the RV systems. Please keep up the content...and I'll see you over on Patreon soon!!
Nice man! Appreciate your kind words. I wish you all the luck man. These things are money pits sometimes but they sure are fun to play with once you own one.... or 60 LOL
I used to ride Prevosts and MCIs mainly the E model in summer day camp going from the Jewish Community Center to the DoubleTree Ranch in my childhood until the DoubleTree ranch got torn down but, still rode them to outings in Summer day camp during my early teen years. I also rode an MCI j4500 on 2 long-distance field trips in my days of high school. MCI buses are the best.
Thanks David. I do enjoy driving the J 4500. I
I love the time and effort you take to educate us on our coaches. I would like for you to do the MC-8 & MC-9 coaches. I am giddy over the D, Renaissance, H3 and J coaches. Having driven them all I love the fact you are showing us the history behind these models. Keep up the good work and the good videos.
Thank you! Appreciate the kind words. I do enjoy meeting fellow bus nuts like your self. It gives me drive to keep making these! I will definitely do videos on the MC8 and MC9 down the road!
@MotorcoachWorld hi I would like to have some information on the J4500 is the 2001 and 2002 the ones with the least trouble of the J4500 and the least amount of electronics
Great video! Another innovation from the D to E was use of a tubular stainless steel frame. I expect to see E and J chassis rolling down the roads for many years to come.
Thanks Ron! Appreciate this bit of info!
This channel finally addresses things that I have been wondering about for years. I drive H3-45 motorcoaches part-time and seasonal, and thanks to you I am now less hesitant to accept an assignment with a J4500 if it was ever offered to me again (three different EL3 coaches left me stranded 7 times as a passenger in one ski season, with sticking disc brakes and glowing rotors, crippling electric and electronic issues). Your attention to detail is outstanding! I eagerly await more reviews of different motorcoaches (and their powertrains too)!
Thank yo so much! You always comment with such kind words! It means a lot!
Ouch. I know a coach builder who has maintained, the E hockey coach for a decade. Never had a problem like that. There are 7 identical electronic boxes inside the ekectrical compartments, front and midships. If one fails, drop in another spare and you are on you way.
Great 👍 review ! I am a Transit Operator for the TTC . I just got onto your site on busses and find really interesting and informative 👍.
Hi Andre Gonsalves . Thanks for the comment and kind words. Really appreciate it. What is TTC?
@@MotorcoachWorld Toronto Transit Commission
great video, I don't know anything about buses but loved it!
Hey Bill Lambert! I'm glad my videos are doing some good! LOL. Thanks for your comment!
i like how the guages are digitized . its cool
Love it. The J4500 is the epitome of the idea that you can make changes without changing the platform and/or concept. So in other words, the best remains unchanged. One thing that you forgot. The original engine in the E was the DETROIT DIESEL S60 that had selectable HP ratings.
I was working at the MCI Pembina plant when they announced the E model. They bragged it up like it was going to take over the world.
Drove el3 on charters back when they first came out and only problem i had with it was the Jake brake quit working. It was not a fun time coming out of Yellowstone but made the rest of the way.
Oh wow, I bet not! Thank you for your comment. I love reading comments like these.
This video brings back memories I used to work on the J4500’s I remember when I started working on busses in 2004 they had 4 brand new one I miss working on motor coaches I still work on busses transit busses Gilligs not as fun as motor coaches
Glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for the comment
we owned an 06 J4500 and we loved it, until we needed parts. After several unsuccessful attempts to get parts over the phone and from the Winnipeg shop without giving them our tax returns. we sold the bus and went to Prevost. Best choice we ever made. We will never consider MCI an option again.
You don’t see nearly as many luxury tour/RV buses with an MCI chassis. I’ve always wondered why I mostly see Prevost in that category. I’ve been really interested in class A motorhomes and buses recently, so I’m glad UA-cam recommended this channel. It’s been really informative. I’ve already watched a bunch of your videos, and I’m looking forward to more!
Hey Thank you for your kinds words. Means a lot to me. Prevost's have the reputation for being a more comfortable ride. Also they are larger which means they can fit more equipment as well as offer more square footage on board. not by much but every inch counts on a motor home.
Prevost developed their coaches to be able to be converted tour buses / luxury motor homes with factory slides. MCI was much later to the game and as a result, fewer custom shops were used to their coaches and tended to recommend Prevost.
Correct. Prevost made an effort to have conversion shells with up to 4 slide outs. MCI did not do that, hence, Prevosts had a clear advantage. If you want slide outs on an MCI, you have to engineer your own. Big job. A Prevost shell with 3 slides is $1m cdn. Ouch.
Never drove a E or a J model but always wanted to, drove every MCI from the 7 to the 102 DL3 but wish I had a chance with the E or J.
At the company I work for, we have all MCI models talked about in this episode, 1994 DL4500, 2000 E4500, 2004 J4500 2014 J4500 2015 J4500 w/ independent suspension system and 1 so far 2019 J4500 (haven't driven that one yet) to me the best 2 models were the DL4500 and the first gen J4500. As my company took delivery of a new fleet of the 2014 J4500's, they took away all our 2004 J 4500 and gave them to Chicago Classic Coach (those were the green ones at first) as we merged with that company but run under 2 separate names. So now my new favorite is those 2014 J4500 non steer tags.
Funny fact lol .. NFI’s limited production coach actually shared it’s headlights with with the Ford Econoline. NFI wasn’t shy about sharing that. Literally.
James, I have an idea. Why not do a video on those who have taken the MCI D's, E's and the J's to an RV conversion level, using these platforms to build on. If Prevost has this market in its grip because they will cater to them with custom builds, like extra roof heights, slides and whatever else, MCI conversions have also happened. The results are quite amazing, really are. Not that many, but the results are there for sure.
I know that Liberty and Marathon do the conversions on a Prevost shell because they come from the factory ready to do the insides, where MCI does not anymore. Too bad, because the MCI is a gorgeous bus.
I have seen a 1998 E converted and it is beyond belief, not a straight line inside, done by Bruce Coach in Salmon Arm BC. They have 12,000 hours in that bus! Indeed, he says that he prefers the MCI over Prevosts from 37 years experience, says that the MCI is simply better made overall with better materials and design. so he says. Whatever, it would be an interesting topic if you can do something like that.
Other topics could be
2: the technical stuff. For instance, I saw last week, the 10 electric cooling fans used on the radiators and no more mechanical fans. Blew me away (groan).
3: Or the a/c systems so good that it can refrigerate a bus during death valley during a heat wave.
4: Or watching the tag axle counter steer - that was cool.
5: Or watching the instrument cluster do its new computer screen thing.
6: Or getting a walk through with a mechanic doing their thing in repairs, maintenance.
7: Or getting a techy explaining the motor options, horsepower, torque, dialing in power levels, governing, etc.
8: Or getting how the bus is actually made at the factory level - fascinating stuff
9: Or how the outside skin in made and attached
10: Or how the bus is safety certified in crash tests etc.
Just some ideas. . . .
Nice video 👍
Also, one correction. The steerable tag axle was available since the D series. Trans Bridge out of PA as well as Academy Bus in NJ both had D4000s and D4500s with sterrable tags. We had a few as well, early model D4500 silverside commuters but we locked them out, since we did most highway driving. I think Academy and TB also locked them out after a fly by night operator had a big crash around the early 2000s, due to the tag axle. The bus wasnt the flaw, the driver turned hard, and failed to turn the tax axle steering off, which swung the rear of the bus out enough that when he changed lanes (hard) the back hit an overpass, the bus swung around....and well...there was nothing left. The bus was towed in two pieces, and people were hurt and worse.
So yeah, you gotta keep on eye out on that. Ive said this many times. Buses are closer to airliners than cars. They are built more like planes (and Ive been a mechanic for both buses and aircraft), and they drive similar to airliners, as far as being aware and in control of every system, and not slacking off.
So I believe the D's tag axles were free turning but they did not actually steer when the front tires steer. At least that what the techs at MCI taught me. the E model and the newer J models Tag axles actually turn when you turn the front wheels. The D's only turned when there was enough force against it as the coach made turns.
@@MotorcoachWorld Now that I dont know since ours never turned. Im trying to recall..going back a while how those coaches behaved. I remember seeing one do some parallel parking (in NY in Port Authority its a common and mandatory thing to be able to do) and I took photos of the tag while it turned, but I cant say for sure if it was merely the pressure of the turn or steer controlled. I have to look them up because I took sequential shots..back in the days of film lol
I believe the D model tags were free steer, like dump truck and cement truck tags.
@@MisterLongShot_Official Yes. they were free steer. We used to call them steer axles among us, and well, it has been 20 years since then lol, so, from steer axle, to steerable, memory got corrupted lol. And photos dont show the lack of a steer linkage.
Really cool. I didnt know there were others like me. I used to drive MC9s, As, Bs, Cs, Ds and once an E 4500. Once day I want to add a few MCIs to my collection. So far, I only have two Romanian buses that I imported...Yes. SOme poeple bring in Skylines, I bring in an old city bus lol.
Heavy Metal Mechanic. Always nice to meet a fellow bus nit!
Wait I bought a 99 el3 renaissance this past summer, hopefully it'll keep working well with the electronics (gold bricks). Making a motorhome with it...
If it was running when you bought it, chances are the seller has already replaced all the problem parts from back in the day
Great bus love driving them
Yes they are
Hey James, great video! Best breakdown of MCI coach evolution I’ve seen, I found it very helpful. Can’t wait to see what else you publish!
We are about to be in the market for a coach to convert into a full-time lived in RV. I’ve found a few dealers around the country plus several classified type sites, and then there’s always Craigslist and FB Marketplace. I’m curious about what you and other charter lines do with your coaches when it comes time to retire them. Do you turn to a reseller or dealer, list them on a marketplace yourself, or maybe there’s some kind of auction environment? What are the reasons you might retire a coach? Is there anything we should keep an eye out for to avoid trouble down the road?
DIY coach conversions are becoming kind of a big thing it seems. I’m sure a lot of viewers out there would love any information geared toward their projects.
Thanks again for posting, looking forward to more!
Thank you Jeff baysinger. Appreciate the comment. I just released another video just minutes ago regarding how we perform maintenance to our fleet.
Usually when we retire a coach we list it on busforsale.com. A large company like us will retire them with still lots of life left. Small companies try to squeez as much as they can out of them because their funds are limited.
You can also try searching for use coaches from MCI dealers. they have a very specific used coach department and they have a lot more to choose from.
Things I would look for are rust. A lot of the older d models will have problems where the wheel struts are pushing through the floor. Definitely check for bulges in the floor around the rear of the coach.
Definitely check to see if there's pools of any kind of fluid under the coach where it's parked.
Also big thing to check is rust in the electronics compartment right below the driver's window. If there's a lot of rust and corrosion in there you're looking at a lot of electrical problems that's going to cost a lot of money
Amazing video, keep up the great work! Also could you do a Vid on how you guys maintenance on the bus snd how you get them ready for trips and over the road work
Thanks for the comment my man! I will definite touch on this topic. I have added it to my list.
@@MotorcoachWorld No Thank you🤝 I very much appreciate what you are doing to gain awareness to the Motor Industry. Also you are helping people like me, who aspire to be a MotorCoach operator later down the line👍
@@motiv8_kaii If you ever find your self near Urbana IL. Hit me up. Ill give you a tour of the facility!
@@MotorcoachWorld Ok I’ll be sure to let you know, In fact I may be attending college down there in Peoria at Bradley University
Wow! you're just down the street! That's Awesome! Hit me up sometime. Ill take you out to lunch. Im in Peoria once or twice a month visiting the Peoria Facility.
Nice video
Thank you so much Lacroix Cruiser! These comments really make my day.
The turn signals remind me of the blue bird all American can vision
When MCI introduced the J4500, it renamed the D3 and DL3 to the D4000 and D4500. The EL3 was renamed the E4500. NCI also introduced the F3500, a 35 ft coach and a G4500 coach made for Greyhound.
I believe the D3 was the 40 foot version of the DL3. the DL3 is 45 feet.
The J 4500 2018 also has lights that change different colors on the interior. Also cameras all around the coach that show on the dash.
Yes. not all offer this package but some do.
I finally got my bus license
Congratulations! Safe travels. I hope you like being a bus operator.
Great video.
Sincerely,
Predada Severa, of
illuminati
Thank you Central Intelligence Akar TM -CiA TM. Appreciate the comment!
@@MotorcoachWorld You're welcome.
loved the DL3
Me too!
Hi James ! Just subscribed and love your channel so far ! Quick question , we just purchased an 09 J4500 but the previous owner removed the DVD control device for the TVS and the wifi/routers. This is my first bus, any tips on modern console equipment for TVS and WiFi ? Again , love your videos , thanks ! God Bless
I believe the E model was discontinued in late 2012 after MCI redesigned the J4500, which was done for the 2013 model year.
Can you do a history on Dina whom purchased MCI for a few years.
Woah I do not know anything about this! What is Dina? I need to look into this. Thank you for the suggestion!
Yes, the Dina Viaggio!
Grupo Dina purchased MCI in the 1990's and was the owner when the E class coach was developed and released.
@@bdesalisDina from MEXICO ?
@@oscarjosuemagallanescolmen7123 Yes. I went to work for Motor Coach Industries in 1995 and Grupo Dina had recently purchased the company.
there is a movie you might like it's called get on the bus by spike lee
Is there a passenger ejection seat button on the gearshift? There IS one those , correct?
My question is that since the EL3s had systems that were prone to failures, were they removed from the E4500 also when they rolled out the J4500?
You forgot about the MCI special build using this bus as it’s layout, the G Model for Greyhound.
Hey Aren. Thanks for the comment. I didn't forget. There is an entire episode about the G4100 and G4500 coming soon. Stay tuned.
@@MotorcoachWorld
Can’t wait, will you do any of them on the MCI D45 CRT LE and D4520? Like the difference between the local versus the Charter Coach edition?
Can you get information on a person like me that is looking to buy a MCI J3500 and want to get contracts from major bus companies to run shorter less dense routes... Or in a nutshell if I have a MCI J3500 where can I start looking for routes thru the transportation agency...?
There are many bus companies that would love to have 3rd party companies help!
When was the air suspension control added to lift the coach for steep hills added?
Anyone?
Did mci introduce an optional low floor section for wheelchairs on the j4500 recently?
No you are thinking of the D45 CRT
You didn't mention the digital dashboards on the 2018 with the 360 degree camera views. I just wish they would raise the dash display for taller folks like me,
Hey Robert Schuhl! Appreciate the comment. I was not aware of that!
Did anyone else see James cool hat? Been driving NFI buses for three decades.
LOL Thank you Ronald! I love New Flyers.
what did the new coach have for restrooms?
The rear cap on the E and J are different. The E cap is more square at the top.
Did all the Js come with multiplex ? Or did some have the gold bricks ?
Good video !
The older J models had the bricks as well. Good question!
When did they add kneeling function
what are the apx mpg of each?
One of your DL3's is for sale in Florida for $22k. As you said in another video, ask "Why did you sell it" :)
LOL cool! Send me a pic if you have one LOL. Jwang@peoriacharter.com. We started to phase out our D models to reduce the inventory of parts. If we kept to the same model of coaches we would have less parts to keep on hand and there for reducing our cost on inventory.
Awesome video! I just have one question though: at 1:34 is the MCI 102DL3/D4500's height really just 10 feet 6 inches? I thought it was 11 feet 5 inches
It is 11 6. I misspoke. Apologies. Thanks for your comment 👍 🙂
@@MotorcoachWorld No Problem! I thought 10 foot 6 for a motorcoach would be a little low since a New Flyer Xcelsior transit bus is taller than that
Hi I think I tried to ask you this before but can't find it. What is your understanding of coach driver safety in a front collision with another vehicle, even a car? Is the driver likely to be significantly injured or lose his life? There isn't much between driver and front bumper! Thanks Nathan.
Hey Nathan Barnard. Thats a very good question. I have often thought about this myself. You are definitely right about not being too much between the driver and the car in front. I think it's a issue that most coach makers avoid. I think if it were a situation between a coach and a car the coach would be tall enough to avoid any issues but with a semi something with that tall of a flat surface I don't think the driver would have a chance.
@@MotorcoachWorld don't get into an accident!!!
here's a question for you:
what type of transmission do the old and new J4500 have?
Will you do a video about the MCI G4500 coach?
Yes! It's on my list of to do topics
@@MotorcoachWorld Although a lot of people seem to hate them, I liked the G4500 for its fuel economy and the long wheelbase made for a smooth ride.
It is forbidden to mention that coach out loud! 😄
Does anyone know the exact height of the EL3?
Does anyone know the exact height of the 102-EL3
James, next video ideas, Cummins vs DD engine. Allison vs. ZF Transmission. Retarder vs Jacobs brake.!
I love this one. I'll add it to the list
Do you have any sources besides the Vice President? I would be suspicious of his information being more akin to a sales pitch.
Yes. All of our mechanics as well as mechanics of 2 other bus companies.
Was the E4500 just a J4500 with all the bells and whistles that were removed from the earlier Js?
E models had bells and whistles.. J's were the simpler version. But now J models are even fancier than the E models of back in the day
How much would a 2010 coach Canada livery j4500 cost?
Personally, I'm on some James Bond shiznit when it comes to driving. You ain't got to tell me but once then I get by on experience.
I'm an ex-bus driver.
Damn you now I want a J4500 and I don't even need one ,,hey if you remove some of the seats just think of room you would have when you go to the store food shopping
LOL Hey Steven Taylor! You are absolute right about the seates! Thanks for the comment!
Next Evolution of the Maz bus 2000 - 2022
Is the EL3 the same as the E4500?
Yes it is. Good question Adrian Eaparza!
2023 MCI J4500
The only buses I knew were the enviro 200 and 400
There are so many more!
LAST 2012 MCI E4500
I thought the d4500s were 11ft and 5inches tall and the h3-45s were 12ft and 5 inches. The new j4500s some has rear windows and but no bathroom sinks. It's awesome the roof exits some has it clear see through
Great video though
You are absolutely right. I knew that too. I just said the wrong numbers when recording LOL. Appreciate the comment though!
You're welcome. Does newer coaches still use Detroit Diesel Series 60s? I know most companies use the DD13 or DD15. Or the Cummins Isx 12 or x15. No one really uses the Caterpillars anymore
@@jackjack6199 Hey Sorry I missed this comment! Detroit is pulling out of the over the road market. Soon the predominant engines going in to coach buses will be Volvo and Cummins. Cat has completely pulled out of the over the road market. Personally they made a poor engine and there was a class action lawsuit for that.
Hey no worries. So Detroit won't be making engines anymore soon. Cummins are nice. I haven't been in a Volvo engine bus yet ha. Wonder how they on the road
What about the engine and transmission
That's covered on a different video.
ua-cam.com/video/2kBDWwk81Uw/v-deo.html