Realth dunking on people like this has been so refreshing. And since this community has been stuck with clowns as our most popular content creators for years at this point, he’ll never run out of content.
Freedos arguments for 5v5 are so bad that he always ends up remembering how fun 6v6 was and that i actually do miss it. He's doing a better job at promoting 6v6 than the 6v6 crowd.
The queue time argument was always blizzard just throwing the towel on tank design and balance. People will queue for tank if its not getting shafted in the fun department.
I still find it so ironic that Freedo of all people is calling other people crazy and mocking them for their view on the reality of the game when he hasn't been someone to take seriously since 'Sombra is a support' proved the smoothness of his brain. And at the same time as this, we had Eskay being terminally online tweeting that anyone who dislikes what happened with 5v5 was an incel. 😭I always found her wholesome af before that. I wonder if they were conspiring to hide stuff because they knew they couldn't talk about it tbh.
There is definitely something with the NDA's they sign, making them say things. When Mcree's name first changed, every time a random teammate from an official dev streamer calling out Mcree would be met with "wHo'S tHaT?! OH yOu MeAn CaSsiDy??????". ML7, Flats, Emongg, they all did it in the beginning until people stopped saying Cree. I seen a couple clips of some of these streamers accidentally saying Mcree and doing the "oh woops I mean Cass. (he. he. please don't fire me blizz)". That was blatant NDA speech there. They're hired and signed on to 'guide' the narrative in Blizzard's favour.
@@Shrike_Hyperion Gamers will try and say they're not giant fucking babies but then also will hold onto a grudge that they changed the name of a hero from a known sex pest lol, why the fuck would you even care
Arguments for 6v6: "Rein Zarya was fun." Arguments for 5v5: "You see, according to this analysis I've done of 500 competitive GM games, the most optimal team arrangement that raises the skill floor and lowers matchmaking times is one tank! I definitely am not just blindly defending them game I make my entire livelihood off of."
This was my exact reaction when watching this the first time. It's all double talk but the one that chapped me the most was in the beginning of the video he says, "*We* top 100 creators who are high level in the game can't make the game only good for us..." but by the end of the video he's saying "*We* players at the average ranks can't do all of the things mystical Oct 2020 provided, synergy didn't matter." Bro can't even agree with himself whether he is an expert or a metal rank ronnie!
I wanna see Relf debate someone ( not Freedo) on hero bans because i ( so far) haven't seen much justification against it and i wanna see both sides of the argument in more depth
I don't understand why people want this feature. This game is a hero shooter. You don't load up the game and say "I want to play DPS" (like every single person seems to think). You load up the game and say "I want to play this hero". The game will never feel good when the hero you want to play can be banned and you get locked out of playing them. My point above about most players thinking people log in to play a certain role is based on everyone saying DPS queues can never be fixed because everyone plays this game to play DPS. Not true. DPS has had 2x more heroes, than both other roles, so of course naturally the DPS role is 4x more likely to get more players. Or like to have 4x more players in the role. What do ya know? More people started playing support when the support roster started to catch up to dps. Roles need equal hero numbers and queue times will disappear in 6 v 6.
Hero bans were terrible for the game, it was another way of Blizzard trying to enforce an ever-changing meta instead of just focusing on making the game fun.
Tbf, there’s no argument AGAINST it that i have personally. My issue is just that it’s a sign of a flawed game if it’s added later. That’s something that has to exist from the beginning or it will immediately ruin the game. And you’re making one tricks more to a throw pick than before.
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 Yeah. It would be a cheap and quick "fix" to the game. Not to mention this game does NOT have enough characters for something like that to be healthy.
@@dizzy.....The game has 40 characters now, and literally 80 % of competizive games have bans involved. The only problem is that ow is balanced after counter picks. Have fun countering pharah mercy when the enemy team bans ashe and widow.
6:10 i think this concern of dps only interacting with the enemy is actually a pretty big part of the whole situation. the game desparately needs more dps heroes that have team-oriented abilities, i.e. sym teleporter, soldier healing field, old torb armor packs (bring told torb back) etc. the game was originally made with only open queue in mind, and hence every single hero had to have a unique identity bring something to the tea. this includes dps characters having more supportive options sometimes. in my opinion, the game would be better off going back to that mentality
TRUE, WE NEED MORE INTERESTING HERO DESIGNS (venture was cool) INSTEAD OF A 15TH VARIATION OF SOLDIER:76 🗣‼️‼️ (I miss sym tp/shield gen, having 2 ults to choose was so cool, and torb scrap was unique to him etc)
Or we could move Venture/Mei to offtanks, Sym/Sombra to support. Balance the role rosters, while also keeping the game balanced with support doing support things, dps doing dps things, and tanks doing tank things.
I am generally against having characters do multiple things at once, since it becomes a mess to balance. If a character has destinct strenghts and weaknesses the way to counter them becomes more obvious. Best example pharah: Counters all projectile and close range dps and gets countered by all long range hitscans. Characters that can do multiple things at once are forced to be balanced by finding the exact correct numbers which is unbelievably hard.
Such a based video title, Realth. The night the YourOverwatch one came out I was so annoyed I recorded a response but it turned out to be 2-3 hours long. But I have no users or the time to edit that so it sits on my hard drive. Freedo is so blind it’s sad. It’s like he was fighting the good fight for so long to bring us a reasonable game ever since the OW1 launch that he finally snapped and became one of Blizzard’s top henchman lol. I think any of the pain points of 6v6- queue times, chaos, or required teamwork, less access to space- will feel irrelevant because 6v6 will be seen to be clearly better once it’s officially tested. Queue times can actually be mitigated by adding the new OW2 heroes especially tanks with alluring playstyles (making tank fun), balancing the game in a way that actually rewards players for making good decisions (ex. Don’t add Brig like she was or immortality field or Sigma), or even open queue with a role limit or “hybrid queue.” There were other solutions besides role lock or 5v5. Freedo/5v5 have no legs to stand on.
the way freedo speaks reminds me of the 2016 era anti sjw alt right youtubers talking about how men are supreme or that the root of all crime is black immigrants or something
@@cyanideinfusion6760 I think it might be the mic compression tbh, when you open an audio file of him it’s hard capped at an exact level and always hitting it. Not that I’m any better with audio, but he does have a certain sound.
@@realthlive7124 that *might* be playing into it subconsciously but I was more referring to the way he structured his arguments and composed his speech
yeah he has this air of absolute smugness, constantly going on about how he knows better and how he knows different terms and definitions and blames everyone for doing things that really he's the only one doing. He has a form of hyper aggressive blame arguing that obscures the fact that most of his what he's actually saying both wildly contradicts itself and is placing that blame on the viewer. He's acting extremely egotystical about it too. hes really good at sounding like he knows what he's saying but it's all just run on sentences and ideas that dont actually have much backing nor actually really even relate to eachother at all outside of just implying that they do using his "thesis".
OMG This original video annoyed me sooo much I'm so glad you reacted to it-I left a comment before saying "Can’t really talk about being intellectually dishonest when you are calling people who disagree with you ‘Flat Earthers’ "
Bro said he doesn’t like the idea of “sides” with this issue, then gives the entire 6v6 argument an insulting label. Freedo is basically just saying, “Every argument that I disagree with is factually incorrect, only us 5v5ers know the truth.”
FINALLY SOMEONE SPEAKING SENSE. The queue times are caused solely because of the lack of fun heroes in the other roles. This is a Hero shooter, not a role shooter. You don't play the game because you want to play DPS. You play the game because you want to play Genji, tracer, whoever your mains are... Add a badass evil sinister AF Hashimoto Samurai tank and see all the genji one tricks play tank more often. Add a pokemon trainer tank that has an adorable big pet (that only you can pat) that deal the damage, so the player only focuses on mitigation or pointing the pet at which enemy, and see some Mercy one tricks (passive non shooter players) play more tank. One thing that bugs me is that all the OG cast, specifically the tanks and supports, had 1 mitigation/support/healing ability. Lucio Heals OR speeds. Mercy Heals OR boosts. Rein has 1 barrier. DVA has 1 matrix. Hog has 1 breather. Most of the DLC heroes, even Ana, yes most people's favourite granny has 2 or more abilities that can be used at the same time. Ana primary, nade and sleep all can be used. Sigma has barrier AND grasp.. etc. I wish they kept with the design philosophy of having 1 ability and not 2. Ana having sleep OR nade, not both. Let her nade herself to give movement speed boost (self passive) and put sleep on another new hero. Sigma could have had the OG sym barrier instead of what they reworked it into. Orisa could have had barrier and NO fortify. As much as players hate Mauga, at least he has only 1 mitigation/defense ability (although his shift can be seen as 2 with his CC immunity). Queen has only 1. Ram has 2 but he can't use shield while he's in nemesis. These are the heroes that are better designed imo. If Mauga didn't have CC immunity in shift, he'd be far better designed by that one change. As much as I love Juno with how fun she is, she has primary healing, torpedo healing AND speed. These new heroes are too bloated. Kiriko should have either Suzu OR quickstep, not both. And if the devs kept with the 1 mitigation/healing/support utility per hero, they could have put the extra abilities into separate heroes! They could release new heroes faster!
For your argument about queue times, you could also bring up 2CP. While most players disliked 2CP, it was especially rough for Tanks. The mode’s choke-heavy design made the pressure and responsibility that already keeps many people away from the Tank role even worse. If your Tank didn’t push through the choke, nobody could get through. Beyond just leading the push in, Tanks also had to deal with all the incoming damage and crowd control. It was frustrating to push through a choke, get crowd-controlled, and die before you could even react, often leading to being flamed by the team. Every time you walked through a choke on 2CP, it felt like a gamble-hoping not to explode or watching a teammate get picked off by a random Hanzo arrow. You’d repeat this cycle until your team had enough ultimates to brute force the point, only to do it all over again at the next point, it really felt like you had no agency in the whole thing. The narrow chokes also meant that certain Tank heroes weren’t viable. A bad Tank composition often meant you couldn’t break through the focus fire and CC to reach the objective. "Can you go Rein" or "Can we get a shield" would always be asked on 2CP in lower ranks. Removing 2CP from the game was a win for everyone, but it was a huge improvement for Tank players. I’d argue that if the devs had removed 2CP from the map rotation in Overwatch 1, they would have had more success reducing queue times than anything the flawed priority pass system accomplished.
11:15 this is pretty much exactly what happend when bans got added to rainbow 6. Same heros banned every game even when lower ranked players,myself included, are almost never using a hero to the potential that makes them so good in the first place. That and heros people find to be annoying (don't need to fix them if they end up perma-banned)
As a casual player I could care less about 5v5 or 6v6. I just hate the fomo they built around the game, battlepasses and limited shop skins. I don't have time to login everyday. But sometimes I have 2 or 3 hours free. Their system in ow1 was really good because it doesn't matter when you are playing, you will still get the lootboxes when you level up. Now if you login twice a week you will never finish the battlepass, let alone earn enough currency to buy the premium pass. It's tiring and demoralizing and I've stopped playing ow 3 seasons ago because of it
It's funny that he uses fallacies to disprove arguments... since there is also the fallacy fallacy. I wouldn't necessarily say that he completely dismissed arguments due to fallacies, however he spent so much time on it that it's rather ironic.
I believe that is exactly his point. People will ban the meta thing or the thin they find the most annoying. I play paladins in comp for quite awhile. The lower ranks you would ban Skye who was an invisible champ with burst damage to kill a squishy. 90% of the time she was banned. If you didnt do it then the other team did it because NO ONE wanted to fight her. Its like that still to this day and they changed her a lot. They tried lower the damage, giving her utility in healing, and it just came down to the fact that no one likes the concept of invisibility with mobility. The sniping hero with invisibility never got banned as much as skye unless it was the sniper map.
@@aerostrafe1075the banning system works in paladins because of the customization options that you have for each champ. Overwatch doesn't have any of that, they would have to redesign the whole game for a draft and ban phase to work. Also the item shop helps to deal with the two tanks tools (paladins has a two tank meta). As a tank player I find myself playing Paladins more because of the two tank meta in ranked. Single tank will never be fun in the type of genre that paladins and overwatch are in, at least the paladins devs recognise that.
@@stottpie I dont blame them not changing her since she is an OG champion. People just dont like being jumped on. I do believe they gave everyone the ability to see the outline of invisible champions by a certain distance so she gets banned less.
support playerbase at the beginning of overwatch 2 was struggling, now its the most played role. this is evidence that they could do the exact same thing for tank if they actually put effort into fixing the role
Is this Freedo coming out as a flat earther? Because the only thing I can think of when I hear 6v6 is flat earth is "You mean it's historically accurate, factually correct and mathematically provable? " I swear, the meth addict hobo behind the 711 makes more sense when they ramble than when Freedo T-baggins does
@@baileyskates Thats the fucking joke moron. Christ you overwatch players can not read. The joke is the way freedo worded his sentence it makes it sound like he, himself, as in freedo, is a flat earther. Because 6v6 was a thing an it was, probaly better. Seriously, do they not teach you kids how to comprehend anymore?
These replies are dumb. He’s saying it about 6v6. The op is making the point that 6v6 is historically correct, factually correct and mathematically provable. So is Freedo saying 6v6 is flat earth considering all those factors? So he thinks the earth is flat?
@@Valroirr hero bans are an excellent system for tournament play, but creates poor incentive structures for low rank players, they’ll always just ban whoever is most relevant in the meta or whoever is the hero of the week, or even the new hero just released because they can’t play against it yet!
@@realthlive7124we have the best example in R6. The best comparison to Sombra by far is Jackal, who is perma banned consistently in low ranks, bar none. Beyond that, just relevant meta characters get banned. Hero bans does not necessarily help lower rank players
I think Rivals will serve as a good test for hero bans without actually having to implement it in Overwatch. Rivals ban system only activates at Diamond+ or in the built-in tournament mode (which I really wish we had in OW).
I’m so confused why he thinks that players like shroud shouldn’t have to learn fundamentals to be able to rank up just because their aim is good. Like, yes actually, they SHOULD have to learn stuff like cooldown management and positioning and ult economy to rank up, because these aspects are what makes overwatch it’s own unique experience. It’s almost like you should have to actually learn the game to be good at it
1:12:20 when he begins talking about the october 2020 patch in relation to balance & low mmr, I think the whole balance rant is mentioning that balancing a character for high mmr can ruin the experience for that character in low mmr. The whole point of this is to show that, even though the a good balance patch (like October 2020) is good for high mmr players (the top 3%) it does not necessitate it being good for lower rank players. (which IMO he fails to back up) He brings up gutting a character like Sojourn but conflates the idea of limiting a hero's value at the ceiling would then limit value at the floor (specifically the floor at the metal ranks), which is not necessarily true. "If you gut a hero like Sojourn, Tracer, Widowmaker, they become more and more unplayable down the ranks." This concept would go against the well-liked (at least philosophically) change: The increasing of Sojourns base railgun damage with an overall nerf to headshot damage. Given his line of thinking, "if you gut a hero [for the high ranks] like Sojourn... they become more and more unplayable down the ranks," a change like this is theoretically impossible. Take the skill curve of Sojourn: At low ranks, the skill floor (the minimum amount of skill required to generate sufficient value) of Sojourn is merely landing the railgun, headshot or not. As ranks increase, the floor debatably changes (for example, pre-patch sojourn in medium-high ranks, there is likely a minimum headshot to railgun shots ratio to provide sufficient value at the floor). The nerf to headshot damage with overall damage increasing hurt only those playing her near the ceiling (high rank players) in which a large ratio of headshots to railguns shot is necessary to perform there. The change absolutely helped the floor in ALL ranks. Unless you were smurfing, headshots with sojourn, especially at low ranks, were rare and the spikes in value where you did land one was extremely volatile (I'd argue extreme volatility is a large cause of victim-frustration hence Roadhog and Widow). However, with the change, low rank sojourn players could provide more consistent and less infuriating value. The issue is that Sojourn was effectively gutted in high ranks, as playing her at or near the ceiling was expected (which had appropriately been put down). The Sojourn example only fails because of your point about low rank players being effected by metas because they THINK it matters to them. Sojourn would receive less attention at lower levels because the zeitgeist has already proclaimed her as "dead." When picking her up in say silver/gold post the nerf would have almost guaranteed brought the player more value than pre-nerf. Changes like these would be impossible with the idea "If you gut a hero like Sojourn, Tracer, Widowmaker, they become more and more unplayable down the ranks." When gutting at high ranks simply means bringing down (significantly) the value a character can net at or near the ceiling of skill expression.
If they ever added a ban phase they would make it so each team can't see the name of who's on each team. I'm not saying they should implement bans I'm just saying that's what they would do to prevent the issue that you brought up.
This one was a struggle, ngl. Design-wise, I don't even have much to latch onto. I suppose the most relevant angle is Double Shield as a concept; Barriers are inherently passive in their mechanic, with most of the use boiling down to deployment/application. There are several options the Dev team(s) could have gone with mechanically, to make Barriers more interactive (both for and against) that would have drastically changed how the game played with them, but those solutions haven't seen much execution. The Mirrorwatch patch, I think, has been the only real example of mechanical variance (Rein's barrier having damage amp, which increases deterrence, which improves resource management, which improves Tanking, yadda yadda) that we've seen in the game to date. All that to say: double shield as a concept, no matter which Tanks they are, could have been addressed with a number of experiments and builds, but the Devs were really adamant about not trying anything for all those years, except Health adjustments. Anyway, there's disingenuous arguing being made throughout Freedo's points and Realth's reaction is...basically just struggling not to blow up while attempting to take it seriously, which...lol. Freedo's descriptions and declarations are meant to be inflammatory/dismissive. It's the nature of the "arguments" he makes, to scatter any counterarguments with enough frustration and, by the video's last quarter, Rage, as to destabilize the whole conversation. What was accomplished? Honestly? What take aways were there to be found here? This felt like the prototype for what UA-cam's algo. is about these days. "Not absolutely fucked is not a high standard" about sums it all up, really lol. Well put.
Marvel Rivals is not gonna fail. Just like how Blizzard fans supported Overwatch when it released, Marvel fans will support MR. Its already considered a good game by comic fans and move fans. Overwatch fans like it too. It will definitely succeed for a few years at least
The amount of people who try to attribute all this negative energy to Samito is craaaazy. Anytime you actually watch and listen to his takes it's usually just complaining about an unfun mechanic or meta and then suggesting changes and usually he admits he doesn't know the best way to fix certain issued but he's at least throwing out options and opinions. Everyone who tries to slam samitos opinions usually don't have anything to say about their own.
Low ranks would instantly ban bastion, rein, Winston, dva, Juno, and moria. Those would be stupid bans minus the Juno ban. No bans would be terrible. 6v6 and 5v5 both need to be in the game. Let the players decide if they want to play 5v5 or 6v6 and do it for a season or 2 and then after that, you switch the game to 5v5 or 6v6 based on which was played more and show the data with it and make it the final decision and end of discussion.
I've watched the entire vid now, and I still have no idea what a majority of Freedo's arguments are cause they were just all over the place, like someone going by a checklist of stuff to talk about, but without a script to keep it in check and a lot of nonsense along the way.
@@TheOhm122 I thought it was scripted, but maybe it’s just bullet pointed or otherwise? I genuinely can’t work it out at all 😂. Thanks for spending the time to descend into madness with me
@@realthlive7124 No problem, the videos have been a lot of fun! Good background noise while doing other stuff. It definitely gives me the vibe because it's just way too unstructured in regards to his arguments, too many unrelated things being brought up in sections that only disctract from what he is talking about rather than enhance. I'unno, just makes me think of someone rambling in a discord call than a video with a script that reaches a point. Especially noteworthy to me since I've watched f.eks Spilo talk about stuff on stream and despite getting distracted by chat and donos and shit, just feel way more coherent than this.
I would like to speak a little for the low rank players here (mainly because I was low rank for a lot of ow1), queue times where absolutely fine throughout ow 1 and so was what you could play; it only ever got slightly long if you hard 5 stacked or played in a group during the night but apart from that it was fine
I feel like blizzard has taken a quantity over quality approach with the game. Most of the new heroes are kind of meh in most aspects especially personality. For example Venture. The character feels so uninteresting, they drill stuff... and have a raincoat... cool, I guess. And most of the updates are just them selling something to you like skins, battle pass or an ad for a car Im never going to own or afford. Meanwhile 5v5 is just, miserable.
Releasing venture with no legendary skins clearly shows that they’re struggling to keep up with the content production schedule. They clearly aren’t releasing just for money, but are releasing to keep up with the schedule. Personally I’d rather they slowed down and made the events bigger, but I can see the argument that they need to keep up the momentum.
Damn missed the opportunity to watch samito react to this video. I don't think it has a video to it but there's a vod. Regardless great vid. I think Freedo lost the plot awhile ago.
Because they had already decided to abandon the game. The patches we got after role queue was introduced was no more than a day or two spare work in total for things not portable to OW2.
With regards to grouping and the bias against groups in game and with queue times, I personally feel Blizzard should not hand hold solo queue players. I think making matches easier for solo queue players who are off mic and don’t want to cooperate incentivizes selfish behaviours. Making games easier for groups and harder for solo queue players would, in my opinion, force solo queue players to try and play within a team framework more.
5 v 5 didn't work because most of the tank players in the game don't really have experience in fps games most of them are bad. 6 v 6 will fix this because of the stats nerf and finally real fps games player the dps can finally carry
Idk who you are but you keep saying that low level players play the meta lol not really true, you say that they play it if they know it. In ow2 I was a low level player and I can tell you people will just play either the character they want to at the time the hero they think will be good or the hero they feel value with which is kinda vague but it’s kinda a thing from playing and the player feels like they get value from. This is still true there are outliers with op heroes but in general players at lower ranks still don’t play the meta picks like tracer or any the meta comps
I have no hope for overwatch. Besides 5v5ers refusing to acknowledge the glaring isssues with the game right now, I’ve seen a lot of players completely dismiss Marvel Rivals as an actual competitor. Rather than push the devs to make the best game it can be, they rather reinforce the devs bad decisions and act like shit is fine when it isn’t. When marvel rivals kidnap players from overwatch and especially the tank players, what’s going to be the excuse then? The game is simply not good and it’s not too big to fail. People need to stop being complacent when a real problem is right in front of their face in this community.
Saying that 6v6 is bad for low ranks is ignorant to me because you're just talking about the low ranks who can't understand the game and won't study it at all, which is why they're low ranks. You find people stuck in low ranks who DO understand the game because they either don't have the mechanical chops but have the knowledge, or they're just stuck with bad teams who're throwing all the time and can't stick with otehr good players. No matter what you do to balance the game in the low ranks favour, the majority of them are never even going to understand it, so it won't help them anyway.
Man, I enjoy your content and I think you should get on the group up podcast, but saying things like "you are dumb for saying that" is prob the reason you aren't getting an invite. I understand that all you content creators know each other and there is prob communication which I'm not privy too, but speaking in a personal-attack kind of way isn't the best way to build bridges. The content of your message is interesting, just package it in a slightly less mean way is what I'm saying I guess
@@thepoofster2251 I’ve already attempted to tone down speech since this was recorded over a month ago, but I was asked to upload this one. I agree that that quote is an unfortunate one, but in the grand scheme of things there is definitely worse things that could’ve slipped in. Apologies for this one, I’ll do better in future
@@realthlive7124 I don't think you have to apologize man! I'm not trying to make you feel bad or anything, because I have def said worse. I just kind of see SVB as the kind of dude to get a "red flag" from someone, and it would be a shame for a red flag to stop an all out realth vs spilo debate/bloodbath! Love your content btw! I wish you the best my friend!
I don't even think that's really the case. I just think SVB tends to circulate within the same pool of people only changing one or two people out acros episodes. Samito has toned down a little now but he was still being invited on the show while saying similar things on his own streams. Bogur went on rants, on the podcast, saying people (not directly to other people on the podcast) were dumb for having a certain opinion of certain characters, UnsaltedSalt was also invited to the podcast a few times and he was not light about his words either. I agree, packaging the idea to be delivered softer is a general good idea, but I don't think this is the case for that specific podcast. SVB will eventually reach Relf. Only a matter of time.
Saying that making "5v5 Vs 6v6" videos is a way to make money sounds kinda disingenuous to me. Yeah, it generates some clicks, but there are multiple easier ways to generate clicks without making part of player base dislike you or your video. Complain videos, mechanic overview, spectating bronze, speculating as to what we might get in upcoming seasons with little to nothing to go off of are always hits while being safer. And on top of that, a lot of people are just tired of the argument, no matter on which side they're on. Most people made up their minds on this, discussing that topic may create you a lot of clicks only under at least one of three circumstances: you're Spilo, you're Samito, or something new came out that was heavily leaning towards one side of the discussion. Like, I don't get it. Spectating bronze is almos automatic content, no amount of ragebait 6v6 or 5v5 can top it and outperform its ease of making.
Never liked watching freedom because it feels he is insulting people with out the same opinion I think he generally like 5v5 better but is also trying to push his thoughts onto other people to validate it
Realth I love your takes and great video, but you appeal to ad hominem fallacy often ("Freedo is an idiot", "we call that dumb"). You can strengthen your arguments by not attacking the debater (and focusing only their arguments).
That would mean 6v6ers having to make actual arguments for their viewpoints when it's easier for them to say people who prefer 5v5 are dumb or Blizzard shills. A lot of them refuse to acknowledge that a lot of the issues they have with 5v5 were issues with 6v6 as well.
@@realthlive7124Then surely you've seen my other comment that says I am watching it slowly but surely while doing other stuff. You're welcome for the engagement
@@WindReiter10 Thanks for giving me the time to listen to my arguments, I trust that you’ll engage with them reasonably when they come up and ignore the times when I get frustrated as genuine passion for the game!
@@aerostrafe1075 Dog it's a 2+ hour long video about 6v6ers coping that it wasn't awful. I've already seen enough 6v6 brainrot from Samito and Metro. I might actually go watch the Freedo video though, just from the first 6 minutes of this video I'm liking what I'm hearing from him.
@@WindReiter10 Aww. Thats cute! You actually formed a thought. It sucks that it wasn't an original one of your own but you're getting there. Remember to calm your hate boner before you watch freedo's video. He doesnt need you going into his content for that kind of self gratification. You might also miss points of his that make little sense if you just focus on glazing him if you thought the first 6 minutes were that good.
Freedo claiming that 6v6 advocates are the same as flerfs is downright insulting.
I like freedo, he is my favurite contant craetor! he give veri gud and insighful aguments thet are difficult tu prove wrung.
eskay called 6v6 people the same as the right wing people in politics 😭
@@Ccscenariomade me lose so much respect for her. just insulting and embarrassing
@@Ccscenariomost mentally sound transgender individual
funny thing about that is that the earth never was flat, but OW1 was 6v6
Realth dunking on people like this has been so refreshing. And since this community has been stuck with clowns as our most popular content creators for years at this point, he’ll never run out of content.
Freedos arguments for 5v5 are so bad that he always ends up remembering how fun 6v6 was and that i actually do miss it. He's doing a better job at promoting 6v6 than the 6v6 crowd.
The amount of times he contradicts himself in his arguments for 5v5 are genuinely hilarious.
The queue time argument was always blizzard just throwing the towel on tank design and balance. People will queue for tank if its not getting shafted in the fun department.
I still find it so ironic that Freedo of all people is calling other people crazy and mocking them for their view on the reality of the game when he hasn't been someone to take seriously since 'Sombra is a support' proved the smoothness of his brain.
And at the same time as this, we had Eskay being terminally online tweeting that anyone who dislikes what happened with 5v5 was an incel. 😭I always found her wholesome af before that.
I wonder if they were conspiring to hide stuff because they knew they couldn't talk about it tbh.
There is definitely something with the NDA's they sign, making them say things. When Mcree's name first changed, every time a random teammate from an official dev streamer calling out Mcree would be met with "wHo'S tHaT?! OH yOu MeAn CaSsiDy??????". ML7, Flats, Emongg, they all did it in the beginning until people stopped saying Cree. I seen a couple clips of some of these streamers accidentally saying Mcree and doing the "oh woops I mean Cass. (he. he. please don't fire me blizz)".
That was blatant NDA speech there. They're hired and signed on to 'guide' the narrative in Blizzard's favour.
To be fair Sombra should have been a support but sadly we live in the bad timeline.
it's always the toxic people who has to parade around pretending to be wholesome. you never know the kind of people they are behind closed doors
@@Deusaga Using the Cassidy name change as a way to prove shilling is fucking WILD and something I haven't seen before, it's not that deep brotherman
@@Shrike_Hyperion Gamers will try and say they're not giant fucking babies but then also will hold onto a grudge that they changed the name of a hero from a known sex pest lol, why the fuck would you even care
Listening to Freedo ramble on and on with points that aren't even connected does make me laugh, especially when you point it out 😭
It's been 40 mins and freedo has been yapping forever
i thought this video was 20 mins long im tripping
@@SunnyExMusic he didnt put the time in the title its not your fault
@@dizzy..... nah i just saw the 20 in the time bar and thought it was 20 mins 😂😂
isnt it good that shroud and dr were stuck in plat ? It means that you actually have to use your brain a bit instead of just pew pew
@@utk8718 no, all games must attract all streamers who can click accurately, no other skills allowed
Arguments for 6v6: "Rein Zarya was fun."
Arguments for 5v5: "You see, according to this analysis I've done of 500 competitive GM games, the most optimal team arrangement that raises the skill floor and lowers matchmaking times is one tank! I definitely am not just blindly defending them game I make my entire livelihood off of."
This was my exact reaction when watching this the first time. It's all double talk but the one that chapped me the most was in the beginning of the video he says, "*We* top 100 creators who are high level in the game can't make the game only good for us..." but by the end of the video he's saying "*We* players at the average ranks can't do all of the things mystical Oct 2020 provided, synergy didn't matter." Bro can't even agree with himself whether he is an expert or a metal rank ronnie!
I wanna see Relf debate someone ( not Freedo) on hero bans because i ( so far) haven't seen much justification against it and i wanna see both sides of the argument in more depth
I don't understand why people want this feature. This game is a hero shooter. You don't load up the game and say "I want to play DPS" (like every single person seems to think). You load up the game and say "I want to play this hero".
The game will never feel good when the hero you want to play can be banned and you get locked out of playing them.
My point above about most players thinking people log in to play a certain role is based on everyone saying DPS queues can never be fixed because everyone plays this game to play DPS. Not true. DPS has had 2x more heroes, than both other roles, so of course naturally the DPS role is 4x more likely to get more players. Or like to have 4x more players in the role. What do ya know? More people started playing support when the support roster started to catch up to dps.
Roles need equal hero numbers and queue times will disappear in 6 v 6.
Hero bans were terrible for the game, it was another way of Blizzard trying to enforce an ever-changing meta instead of just focusing on making the game fun.
Tbf, there’s no argument AGAINST it that i have personally. My issue is just that it’s a sign of a flawed game if it’s added later. That’s something that has to exist from the beginning or it will immediately ruin the game. And you’re making one tricks more to a throw pick than before.
@@RIP_ZYZZ1738 Yeah. It would be a cheap and quick "fix" to the game. Not to mention this game does NOT have enough characters for something like that to be healthy.
@@dizzy.....The game has 40 characters now, and literally 80 % of competizive games have bans involved.
The only problem is that ow is balanced after counter picks.
Have fun countering pharah mercy when the enemy team bans ashe and widow.
6:10 i think this concern of dps only interacting with the enemy is actually a pretty big part of the whole situation. the game desparately needs more dps heroes that have team-oriented abilities, i.e. sym teleporter, soldier healing field, old torb armor packs (bring told torb back) etc. the game was originally made with only open queue in mind, and hence every single hero had to have a unique identity bring something to the tea. this includes dps characters having more supportive options sometimes. in my opinion, the game would be better off going back to that mentality
TRUE, WE NEED MORE INTERESTING HERO DESIGNS (venture was cool) INSTEAD OF A 15TH VARIATION OF SOLDIER:76 🗣‼️‼️ (I miss sym tp/shield gen, having 2 ults to choose was so cool, and torb scrap was unique to him etc)
Or we could move Venture/Mei to offtanks, Sym/Sombra to support. Balance the role rosters, while also keeping the game balanced with support doing support things, dps doing dps things, and tanks doing tank things.
@@bull_ow I like this idea too, not sure how viable it is but it's cool
I am generally against having characters do multiple things at once, since it becomes a mess to balance.
If a character has destinct strenghts and weaknesses the way to counter them becomes more obvious.
Best example pharah: Counters all projectile and close range dps and gets countered by all long range hitscans.
Characters that can do multiple things at once are forced to be balanced by finding the exact correct numbers which is unbelievably hard.
Ok guys, but since the Earth is flat, what does that mean abt 6v6?
@@starfruitmark3305 true and based
Freedo is a textbook sophist
Such a based video title, Realth. The night the YourOverwatch one came out I was so annoyed I recorded a response but it turned out to be 2-3 hours long. But I have no users or the time to edit that so it sits on my hard drive. Freedo is so blind it’s sad. It’s like he was fighting the good fight for so long to bring us a reasonable game ever since the OW1 launch that he finally snapped and became one of Blizzard’s top henchman lol. I think any of the pain points of 6v6- queue times, chaos, or required teamwork, less access to space- will feel irrelevant because 6v6 will be seen to be clearly better once it’s officially tested. Queue times can actually be mitigated by adding the new OW2 heroes especially tanks with alluring playstyles (making tank fun), balancing the game in a way that actually rewards players for making good decisions (ex. Don’t add Brig like she was or immortality field or Sigma), or even open queue with a role limit or “hybrid queue.” There were other solutions besides role lock or 5v5. Freedo/5v5 have no legs to stand on.
fuck it, post it. I’ll watch it bro
Got yourself a sub. Post it bro, don't waste your work. I will watch :D
If you haven't yet noticed the below 500 sub youtubers post the 'ow is dying' videos to get 10's of thousands of views... Post your vid bruv.
the way freedo speaks reminds me of the 2016 era anti sjw alt right youtubers talking about how men are supreme or that the root of all crime is black immigrants or something
@@cyanideinfusion6760 I think it might be the mic compression tbh, when you open an audio file of him it’s hard capped at an exact level and always hitting it. Not that I’m any better with audio, but he does have a certain sound.
@@realthlive7124 that *might* be playing into it subconsciously but I was more referring to the way he structured his arguments and composed his speech
yeah he has this air of absolute smugness, constantly going on about how he knows better and how he knows different terms and definitions and blames everyone for doing things that really he's the only one doing. He has a form of hyper aggressive blame arguing that obscures the fact that most of his what he's actually saying both wildly contradicts itself and is placing that blame on the viewer. He's acting extremely egotystical about it too. hes really good at sounding like he knows what he's saying but it's all just run on sentences and ideas that dont actually have much backing nor actually really even relate to eachother at all outside of just implying that they do using his "thesis".
lol he talks like a liberal
No as someone who has been on both sides of politics his smug pseudo-intellctualism is 100% right wing@@spegetiman
Freedo….please ….please shutup…. Sincerely,EVERYONE.
OMG This original video annoyed me sooo much I'm so glad you reacted to it-I left a comment before saying "Can’t really talk about being intellectually dishonest when you are calling people who disagree with you ‘Flat Earthers’ "
And now I understand how I could never make any sense of what Fredo was saying…
Bro said he doesn’t like the idea of “sides” with this issue, then gives the entire 6v6 argument an insulting label. Freedo is basically just saying, “Every argument that I disagree with is factually incorrect, only us 5v5ers know the truth.”
FINALLY SOMEONE SPEAKING SENSE. The queue times are caused solely because of the lack of fun heroes in the other roles. This is a Hero shooter, not a role shooter. You don't play the game because you want to play DPS. You play the game because you want to play Genji, tracer, whoever your mains are...
Add a badass evil sinister AF Hashimoto Samurai tank and see all the genji one tricks play tank more often. Add a pokemon trainer tank that has an adorable big pet (that only you can pat) that deal the damage, so the player only focuses on mitigation or pointing the pet at which enemy, and see some Mercy one tricks (passive non shooter players) play more tank.
One thing that bugs me is that all the OG cast, specifically the tanks and supports, had 1 mitigation/support/healing ability. Lucio Heals OR speeds. Mercy Heals OR boosts. Rein has 1 barrier. DVA has 1 matrix. Hog has 1 breather.
Most of the DLC heroes, even Ana, yes most people's favourite granny has 2 or more abilities that can be used at the same time. Ana primary, nade and sleep all can be used. Sigma has barrier AND grasp.. etc.
I wish they kept with the design philosophy of having 1 ability and not 2. Ana having sleep OR nade, not both. Let her nade herself to give movement speed boost (self passive) and put sleep on another new hero. Sigma could have had the OG sym barrier instead of what they reworked it into. Orisa could have had barrier and NO fortify.
As much as players hate Mauga, at least he has only 1 mitigation/defense ability (although his shift can be seen as 2 with his CC immunity). Queen has only 1. Ram has 2 but he can't use shield while he's in nemesis. These are the heroes that are better designed imo. If Mauga didn't have CC immunity in shift, he'd be far better designed by that one change.
As much as I love Juno with how fun she is, she has primary healing, torpedo healing AND speed. These new heroes are too bloated. Kiriko should have either Suzu OR quickstep, not both.
And if the devs kept with the 1 mitigation/healing/support utility per hero, they could have put the extra abilities into separate heroes! They could release new heroes faster!
Yikes, that's an unhealthy amount of copium
Truly wild that Blizzard saw not enough players on Tank and thought "Should we make tanks more fun as a role? No, let us simply remove one tank."
NO WAY he went from saying "I wish the dev team didn't listen to every Timmy out there." to "What about the Orisa players during the October patch?!"
I can personally say as a Plat/ Dimond played that October patch was great I could play almost anything.
For your argument about queue times, you could also bring up 2CP. While most players disliked 2CP, it was especially rough for Tanks. The mode’s choke-heavy design made the pressure and responsibility that already keeps many people away from the Tank role even worse. If your Tank didn’t push through the choke, nobody could get through. Beyond just leading the push in, Tanks also had to deal with all the incoming damage and crowd control. It was frustrating to push through a choke, get crowd-controlled, and die before you could even react, often leading to being flamed by the team.
Every time you walked through a choke on 2CP, it felt like a gamble-hoping not to explode or watching a teammate get picked off by a random Hanzo arrow. You’d repeat this cycle until your team had enough ultimates to brute force the point, only to do it all over again at the next point, it really felt like you had no agency in the whole thing. The narrow chokes also meant that certain Tank heroes weren’t viable. A bad Tank composition often meant you couldn’t break through the focus fire and CC to reach the objective. "Can you go Rein" or "Can we get a shield" would always be asked on 2CP in lower ranks.
Removing 2CP from the game was a win for everyone, but it was a huge improvement for Tank players. I’d argue that if the devs had removed 2CP from the map rotation in Overwatch 1, they would have had more success reducing queue times than anything the flawed priority pass system accomplished.
11:15 this is pretty much exactly what happend when bans got added to rainbow 6. Same heros banned every game even when lower ranked players,myself included, are almost never using a hero to the potential that makes them so good in the first place. That and heros people find to be annoying (don't need to fix them if they end up perma-banned)
I had to give freedo the block tbh, he was becoming too delusional for my psyche to handle
As a casual player I could care less about 5v5 or 6v6. I just hate the fomo they built around the game, battlepasses and limited shop skins. I don't have time to login everyday. But sometimes I have 2 or 3 hours free. Their system in ow1 was really good because it doesn't matter when you are playing, you will still get the lootboxes when you level up. Now if you login twice a week you will never finish the battlepass, let alone earn enough currency to buy the premium pass. It's tiring and demoralizing and I've stopped playing ow 3 seasons ago because of it
It's funny that he uses fallacies to disprove arguments... since there is also the fallacy fallacy. I wouldn't necessarily say that he completely dismissed arguments due to fallacies, however he spent so much time on it that it's rather ironic.
What the fuck is a fallacy fallacy?
I think you're completely wrong about hero bans. I want to ban sombra every single game. Blizzard can use that data to balance her better.
I believe that is exactly his point. People will ban the meta thing or the thin they find the most annoying. I play paladins in comp for quite awhile. The lower ranks you would ban Skye who was an invisible champ with burst damage to kill a squishy. 90% of the time she was banned. If you didnt do it then the other team did it because NO ONE wanted to fight her. Its like that still to this day and they changed her a lot. They tried lower the damage, giving her utility in healing, and it just came down to the fact that no one likes the concept of invisibility with mobility. The sniping hero with invisibility never got banned as much as skye unless it was the sniper map.
@@aerostrafe1075the banning system works in paladins because of the customization options that you have for each champ. Overwatch doesn't have any of that, they would have to redesign the whole game for a draft and ban phase to work. Also the item shop helps to deal with the two tanks tools (paladins has a two tank meta). As a tank player I find myself playing Paladins more because of the two tank meta in ranked. Single tank will never be fun in the type of genre that paladins and overwatch are in, at least the paladins devs recognise that.
@@aerostrafe1075 sure sounds like they should completely change that character then
@@stottpie I dont blame them not changing her since she is an OG champion. People just dont like being jumped on. I do believe they gave everyone the ability to see the outline of invisible champions by a certain distance so she gets banned less.
What if instead of banning Sombra, we just give her a kit that's not deeply broken?
I turn on overwatch because I want to play a hero. I love this statement❤
1:51:18 we definitely DO NOT want to market the game for people like dr disrespect
Aged like a fermenting corpse
support playerbase at the beginning of overwatch 2 was struggling, now its the most played role. this is evidence that they could do the exact same thing for tank if they actually put effort into fixing the role
Nah, I agree with freedo on open q/role q. Fuck the ball, mercy, 4 DPS meta. That shit was awful
Is this Freedo coming out as a flat earther? Because the only thing I can think of when I hear 6v6 is flat earth is "You mean it's historically accurate, factually correct and mathematically provable? "
I swear, the meth addict hobo behind the 711 makes more sense when they ramble than when Freedo T-baggins does
The Earth isnt flat.
@@baileyskates and you, can't read
Brother what. Historically accurate: L. Factually correct: Double L. Mathematically provable: Triple L and retake highschool algebra please.
@@baileyskates Thats the fucking joke moron. Christ you overwatch players can not read. The joke is the way freedo worded his sentence it makes it sound like he, himself, as in freedo, is a flat earther. Because 6v6 was a thing an it was, probaly better.
Seriously, do they not teach you kids how to comprehend anymore?
These replies are dumb. He’s saying it about 6v6. The op is making the point that 6v6 is historically correct, factually correct and mathematically provable. So is Freedo saying 6v6 is flat earth considering all those factors? So he thinks the earth is flat?
This was great ty.
The freedo video is old news old man. We want more spilo react so I can get more inspiration to fanfic.
THE DEATH OF LFG IS LEGIT THE THING IM THE MOST MAD ABOUT BETWEEN OW1 and 2
If hero bans were in, sombra would be almost permanently banned, no cap, but yeah other than that it's be what the high ranks would do
@@Valroirr hero bans are an excellent system for tournament play, but creates poor incentive structures for low rank players, they’ll always just ban whoever is most relevant in the meta or whoever is the hero of the week, or even the new hero just released because they can’t play against it yet!
@@realthlive7124we have the best example in R6. The best comparison to Sombra by far is Jackal, who is perma banned consistently in low ranks, bar none. Beyond that, just relevant meta characters get banned. Hero bans does not necessarily help lower rank players
I think Rivals will serve as a good test for hero bans without actually having to implement it in Overwatch.
Rivals ban system only activates at Diamond+ or in the built-in tournament mode (which I really wish we had in OW).
oh please dont SELL me on hero bans! /jk
The only thing I don’t agree with is hero bans are stupid. I’m willing to be convinced but think it could be good right now.
i love mad relf, mad relf i so real
RELF is the new Samito
More articulate. Same old topics
@@triantulas More attractive
@@realthlive7124Now become jacked so you can steal that too
I’m so confused why he thinks that players like shroud shouldn’t have to learn fundamentals to be able to rank up just because their aim is good. Like, yes actually, they SHOULD have to learn stuff like cooldown management and positioning and ult economy to rank up, because these aspects are what makes overwatch it’s own unique experience. It’s almost like you should have to actually learn the game to be good at it
21:10 thats what you are doing. The projection is wild.
1:12:20 when he begins talking about the october 2020 patch in relation to balance & low mmr, I think the whole balance rant is mentioning that balancing a character for high mmr can ruin the experience for that character in low mmr. The whole point of this is to show that, even though the a good balance patch (like October 2020) is good for high mmr players (the top 3%) it does not necessitate it being good for lower rank players. (which IMO he fails to back up)
He brings up gutting a character like Sojourn but conflates the idea of limiting a hero's value at the ceiling would then limit value at the floor (specifically the floor at the metal ranks), which is not necessarily true. "If you gut a hero like Sojourn, Tracer, Widowmaker, they become more and more unplayable down the ranks."
This concept would go against the well-liked (at least philosophically) change: The increasing of Sojourns base railgun damage with an overall nerf to headshot damage. Given his line of thinking, "if you gut a hero [for the high ranks] like Sojourn... they become more and more unplayable down the ranks," a change like this is theoretically impossible.
Take the skill curve of Sojourn: At low ranks, the skill floor (the minimum amount of skill required to generate sufficient value) of Sojourn is merely landing the railgun, headshot or not. As ranks increase, the floor debatably changes (for example, pre-patch sojourn in medium-high ranks, there is likely a minimum headshot to railgun shots ratio to provide sufficient value at the floor). The nerf to headshot damage with overall damage increasing hurt only those playing her near the ceiling (high rank players) in which a large ratio of headshots to railguns shot is necessary to perform there.
The change absolutely helped the floor in ALL ranks. Unless you were smurfing, headshots with sojourn, especially at low ranks, were rare and the spikes in value where you did land one was extremely volatile (I'd argue extreme volatility is a large cause of victim-frustration hence Roadhog and Widow). However, with the change, low rank sojourn players could provide more consistent and less infuriating value. The issue is that Sojourn was effectively gutted in high ranks, as playing her at or near the ceiling was expected (which had appropriately been put down).
The Sojourn example only fails because of your point about low rank players being effected by metas because they THINK it matters to them. Sojourn would receive less attention at lower levels because the zeitgeist has already proclaimed her as "dead." When picking her up in say silver/gold post the nerf would have almost guaranteed brought the player more value than pre-nerf.
Changes like these would be impossible with the idea "If you gut a hero like Sojourn, Tracer, Widowmaker, they become more and more unplayable down the ranks." When gutting at high ranks simply means bringing down (significantly) the value a character can net at or near the ceiling of skill expression.
Hell if you have an open career profile and they choose to ban your main of you're an OTP what're you gonna do
If they ever added a ban phase they would make it so each team can't see the name of who's on each team. I'm not saying they should implement bans I'm just saying that's what they would do to prevent the issue that you brought up.
Learn how to play the game
@@ace8099Unfair bias. We can play multiple characters but others can’t.
And you realize that will hurt you as well right?
This one was a struggle, ngl.
Design-wise, I don't even have much to latch onto. I suppose the most relevant angle is Double Shield as a concept; Barriers are inherently passive in their mechanic, with most of the use boiling down to deployment/application. There are several options the Dev team(s) could have gone with mechanically, to make Barriers more interactive (both for and against) that would have drastically changed how the game played with them, but those solutions haven't seen much execution. The Mirrorwatch patch, I think, has been the only real example of mechanical variance (Rein's barrier having damage amp, which increases deterrence, which improves resource management, which improves Tanking, yadda yadda) that we've seen in the game to date.
All that to say: double shield as a concept, no matter which Tanks they are, could have been addressed with a number of experiments and builds, but the Devs were really adamant about not trying anything for all those years, except Health adjustments.
Anyway, there's disingenuous arguing being made throughout Freedo's points and Realth's reaction is...basically just struggling not to blow up while attempting to take it seriously, which...lol. Freedo's descriptions and declarations are meant to be inflammatory/dismissive. It's the nature of the "arguments" he makes, to scatter any counterarguments with enough frustration and, by the video's last quarter, Rage, as to destabilize the whole conversation. What was accomplished? Honestly? What take aways were there to be found here?
This felt like the prototype for what UA-cam's algo. is about these days.
"Not absolutely fucked is not a high standard" about sums it all up, really lol. Well put.
Marvel Rivals is not gonna fail. Just like how Blizzard fans supported Overwatch when it released, Marvel fans will support MR. Its already considered a good game by comic fans and move fans. Overwatch fans like it too. It will definitely succeed for a few years at least
Get rid of 5v5, get rid of role queue, they were horrible ideas pushed by OWL viewers that have done nothing but damage the game.
The amount of people who try to attribute all this negative energy to Samito is craaaazy. Anytime you actually watch and listen to his takes it's usually just complaining about an unfun mechanic or meta and then suggesting changes and usually he admits he doesn't know the best way to fix certain issued but he's at least throwing out options and opinions. Everyone who tries to slam samitos opinions usually don't have anything to say about their own.
Cant wait for your cameo in great group up podcast. It would be interesting. I want to see you talk to these people.
Low ranks would instantly ban bastion, rein, Winston, dva, Juno, and moria. Those would be stupid bans minus the Juno ban. No bans would be terrible. 6v6 and 5v5 both need to be in the game. Let the players decide if they want to play 5v5 or 6v6 and do it for a season or 2 and then after that, you switch the game to 5v5 or 6v6 based on which was played more and show the data with it and make it the final decision and end of discussion.
Disingenious freedo
I've watched the entire vid now, and I still have no idea what a majority of Freedo's arguments are cause they were just all over the place, like someone going by a checklist of stuff to talk about, but without a script to keep it in check and a lot of nonsense along the way.
@@TheOhm122 I thought it was scripted, but maybe it’s just bullet pointed or otherwise? I genuinely can’t work it out at all 😂. Thanks for spending the time to descend into madness with me
@@realthlive7124 No problem, the videos have been a lot of fun! Good background noise while doing other stuff.
It definitely gives me the vibe because it's just way too unstructured in regards to his arguments, too many unrelated things being brought up in sections that only disctract from what he is talking about rather than enhance. I'unno, just makes me think of someone rambling in a discord call than a video with a script that reaches a point.
Especially noteworthy to me since I've watched f.eks Spilo talk about stuff on stream and despite getting distracted by chat and donos and shit, just feel way more coherent than this.
I would like to speak a little for the low rank players here (mainly because I was low rank for a lot of ow1), queue times where absolutely fine throughout ow 1 and so was what you could play; it only ever got slightly long if you hard 5 stacked or played in a group during the night but apart from that it was fine
2:06:20 funnily enough, this is my reasoning why 2CP should return to Quick Play.
@Relf you should watch spilo's take on 6v6. It's on his youtube channel
Uploading within the next week
1:29:20 peak gameplay loop‼️
I feel like blizzard has taken a quantity over quality approach with the game. Most of the new heroes are kind of meh in most aspects especially personality. For example Venture. The character feels so uninteresting, they drill stuff... and have a raincoat... cool, I guess. And most of the updates are just them selling something to you like skins, battle pass or an ad for a car Im never going to own or afford. Meanwhile 5v5 is just, miserable.
Releasing venture with no legendary skins clearly shows that they’re struggling to keep up with the content production schedule. They clearly aren’t releasing just for money, but are releasing to keep up with the schedule. Personally I’d rather they slowed down and made the events bigger, but I can see the argument that they need to keep up the momentum.
Damn missed the opportunity to watch samito react to this video. I don't think it has a video to it but there's a vod. Regardless great vid. I think Freedo lost the plot awhile ago.
1:35:00 if it's not a high standard, then why could they only achieve it for 1/24 months that we had role q?
Because they had already decided to abandon the game. The patches we got after role queue was introduced was no more than a day or two spare work in total for things not portable to OW2.
With regards to grouping and the bias against groups in game and with queue times, I personally feel Blizzard should not hand hold solo queue players. I think making matches easier for solo queue players who are off mic and don’t want to cooperate incentivizes selfish behaviours. Making games easier for groups and harder for solo queue players would, in my opinion, force solo queue players to try and play within a team framework more.
Nah, bro playing devils’s advocate. Rage bait fr fr. Never taking freedo seriously again.
5 v 5 didn't work because most of the tank players in the game don't really have experience in fps games most of them are bad. 6 v 6 will fix this because of the stats nerf and finally real fps games player the dps can finally carry
Idk who you are but you keep saying that low level players play the meta lol not really true, you say that they play it if they know it. In ow2 I was a low level player and I can tell you people will just play either the character they want to at the time the hero they think will be good or the hero they feel value with which is kinda vague but it’s kinda a thing from playing and the player feels like they get value from. This is still true there are outliers with op heroes but in general players at lower ranks still don’t play the meta picks like tracer or any the meta comps
I have no hope for overwatch. Besides 5v5ers refusing to acknowledge the glaring isssues with the game right now, I’ve seen a lot of players completely dismiss Marvel Rivals as an actual competitor. Rather than push the devs to make the best game it can be, they rather reinforce the devs bad decisions and act like shit is fine when it isn’t. When marvel rivals kidnap players from overwatch and especially the tank players, what’s going to be the excuse then? The game is simply not good and it’s not too big to fail. People need to stop being complacent when a real problem is right in front of their face in this community.
Saying that 6v6 is bad for low ranks is ignorant to me because you're just talking about the low ranks who can't understand the game and won't study it at all, which is why they're low ranks. You find people stuck in low ranks who DO understand the game because they either don't have the mechanical chops but have the knowledge, or they're just stuck with bad teams who're throwing all the time and can't stick with otehr good players. No matter what you do to balance the game in the low ranks favour, the majority of them are never even going to understand it, so it won't help them anyway.
Man, I enjoy your content and I think you should get on the group up podcast, but saying things like "you are dumb for saying that" is prob the reason you aren't getting an invite.
I understand that all you content creators know each other and there is prob communication which I'm not privy too, but speaking in a personal-attack kind of way isn't the best way to build bridges. The content of your message is interesting, just package it in a slightly less mean way is what I'm saying I guess
@@thepoofster2251 I’ve already attempted to tone down speech since this was recorded over a month ago, but I was asked to upload this one. I agree that that quote is an unfortunate one, but in the grand scheme of things there is definitely worse things that could’ve slipped in. Apologies for this one, I’ll do better in future
@@realthlive7124 I don't think you have to apologize man! I'm not trying to make you feel bad or anything, because I have def said worse. I just kind of see SVB as the kind of dude to get a "red flag" from someone, and it would be a shame for a red flag to stop an all out realth vs spilo debate/bloodbath!
Love your content btw! I wish you the best my friend!
@@thepoofster2251 thanks dude, I had a conversation on stream with spilo last weekend, it’ll be up here in a week or so
@@realthlive7124 it will certainly be getting my view! Cheers mate!
I don't even think that's really the case. I just think SVB tends to circulate within the same pool of people only changing one or two people out acros episodes. Samito has toned down a little now but he was still being invited on the show while saying similar things on his own streams. Bogur went on rants, on the podcast, saying people (not directly to other people on the podcast) were dumb for having a certain opinion of certain characters, UnsaltedSalt was also invited to the podcast a few times and he was not light about his words either.
I agree, packaging the idea to be delivered softer is a general good idea, but I don't think this is the case for that specific podcast.
SVB will eventually reach Relf. Only a matter of time.
Saying that making "5v5 Vs 6v6" videos is a way to make money sounds kinda disingenuous to me. Yeah, it generates some clicks, but there are multiple easier ways to generate clicks without making part of player base dislike you or your video. Complain videos, mechanic overview, spectating bronze, speculating as to what we might get in upcoming seasons with little to nothing to go off of are always hits while being safer.
And on top of that, a lot of people are just tired of the argument, no matter on which side they're on. Most people made up their minds on this, discussing that topic may create you a lot of clicks only under at least one of three circumstances: you're Spilo, you're Samito, or something new came out that was heavily leaning towards one side of the discussion.
Like, I don't get it. Spectating bronze is almos automatic content, no amount of ragebait 6v6 or 5v5 can top it and outperform its ease of making.
"us top players" dont try and compare yourself to good players, we see that 2018 playstyle
you better watch freedo is the best debater in the ow community.
Never liked watching freedom because it feels he is insulting people with out the same opinion I think he generally like 5v5 better but is also trying to push his thoughts onto other people to validate it
fart
Realth I love your takes and great video, but you appeal to ad hominem fallacy often ("Freedo is an idiot", "we call that dumb"). You can strengthen your arguments by not attacking the debater (and focusing only their arguments).
That would mean 6v6ers having to make actual arguments for their viewpoints when it's easier for them to say people who prefer 5v5 are dumb or Blizzard shills. A lot of them refuse to acknowledge that a lot of the issues they have with 5v5 were issues with 6v6 as well.
@@WindReiter10 for someone not watching the video, you sure did stick around here for over an hour commenting on stuff 🤪
@@realthlive7124Then surely you've seen my other comment that says I am watching it slowly but surely while doing other stuff. You're welcome for the engagement
@@WindReiter10 Thanks for giving me the time to listen to my arguments, I trust that you’ll engage with them reasonably when they come up and ignore the times when I get frustrated as genuine passion for the game!
Oh geeze I reached 37:20 and I feel like a tool for calling out ad hominem
JHESUS CHRUIST MAn sry ur british
why is this guy so toxic? what Freedo did to him lol?
Title makes no sense, 6v6 would be flat earthers since 6v6 doesn't exist, as it shouldn't because it's an awful format.
- an OW1 tank main
My guy hit the video, watched nothing, left a hate comment, and will now proceed to respond to zero replies without that same hate energy.
@@aerostrafe1075 Dog it's a 2+ hour long video about 6v6ers coping that it wasn't awful. I've already seen enough 6v6 brainrot from Samito and Metro. I might actually go watch the Freedo video though, just from the first 6 minutes of this video I'm liking what I'm hearing from him.
@@aerostrafe1075people who come and leave hate comments like this just make themselves look stupid, it's quite funny.
@@WindReiter10what about 6v6 makes it an awful mode for you?
@@WindReiter10 Aww. Thats cute! You actually formed a thought. It sucks that it wasn't an original one of your own but you're getting there.
Remember to calm your hate boner before you watch freedo's video. He doesnt need you going into his content for that kind of self gratification. You might also miss points of his that make little sense if you just focus on glazing him if you thought the first 6 minutes were that good.