It’s a lot more forgiving if you know the reason why she adopted the streamer personality though. I think lowkey they took her characteristic as a nature lover to the next level with this new Julia. But what I want to see in a future cutscene animation is how she is still the same spiritual, calm Julia when she is offline
@@stanfordc5125 Agreed. It totally makes sense to me that Julia is a streamer now. It makes more sense than her becoming a pro-wrestler. They could have just kept her original personality and not go overboard with the e-girl gimmicks.
Igor Soares yeah but half of what I mean is that as a streamer, the bigger personalities get the donations that’s why she’s so spunky. And she wants Raise enough money for the forest
@@scorpioigor As someone who loves Julia but hated what they did to her in Tekken 7, I will agree that if they just kept her the same but just with a newfound interest in streaming without the E-girl crap and the obnoxious high-pitch voice, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Of course I'm gonna be biased as a Nina main, but I think Nina's personality and her filling the archetype of "cold-blooded action girl secret agent assassin" is actually pretty well reflected in her gameplay. Her, Dragunov and Raven/Master Raven are kind of all the same type of stoic badass killers as characters but Nina lacks the brute force of Dragunov or the ninja trickery of the Ravens. Instead she must use finesse and precision to make her way to her target and it's a very accurate representation of her gameplan in-game. When you're past the level where her scrub-killer strings works, you realize that she lacks good approach moves, her generics and other strong pokes have very poor range and her long range whiff punish launchers are pretty unsafe so they must be used very precisely as opposed to a yolo Claudio hopkick or Paul df2. Ideally, you play Nina approaching with extra caution, until you can exploit a gap in your opponent's defense to then push them back against the wall where Nina finally becomes a monster of pressure with her SS1 cancel game that is entirely as good as your execution gets. That gameplay imo is a very good representation of the " secret agent assassin" archetype she fills in. I think Anna in general is more popular because she's much more expressive and her being the underdog in the Williams rivalry because she constantly has to deal with Nina's sadistic cruel bullying that borders Bryan levels of psychopathy like that Tekken 5 ending where she blows up a movie set while Anna has the same ending but plays a harmless prank on her instead. Like if you popped a boner in front of the sisters, Anna would arouse you more, then laugh at you before stomping your dick and blowing you a kiss goodbye, whereas Nina would just shoot it off without blinking. But some of us like to play as the villainess (and superior sister who doesn't have an obvious inferiority complex ;))
Nina is the only female character I like currently in Tekken because she's a cold bitch but not completely heartless. She's also not as over the top as the other girls in terms of being goofy like Chloe, Ling, and Alisa or too slutty like characters like Katarina or Anna. Like Fergus said that over the sexy thing appeals more to gay men.
As a Williams main, I like how Nina is not here for the bs, cold and straight to the point. I do think she needs an animation update and to have an Irish accent tho
Yeah I mean as someone who used to be a big Nina fan, I love her fighting style and she's still one of my top 3 mains and I will always have love for her because she was the first Tekken character I played with in Tekken 2 back in the day and especially loved her in Tekken 3 but it's just her lack of personality that kinda pushed me away. Like I get that she's serious and focus, pretty much the opposite of the flirtatious and expressive Anna but it still would be nice to see what Nina is like when she's not on the job. Like what does she like to do to unwind? Any hobbies? You know little things like that to help humanize her a bit and show she's more than just a badass contract killer. I guess for me the shtick was getting a little stale by the time i got to Tekken 6.
Its not a fighting game character but Ana from Overwatch is a perfect modern model for a female character. She’s a tough, resolute Egyptian soldier, Who’s also an affectionate mother trying to protect her daughter. just shows a stroke of genius by the designers, for me its a wonderful step forward when it comes to representation considering that i’m an Arabic as well
@@sunnymane Hey in the world of video games where someone like Heihachi is still able to kick ass in his 60s, why not have an old woman be able to do the same lol
Kunimitsu has the whole package. Yes, she could have had a stronger moveset but she's scarred, older, badass and mysterious. She even has muscle definition which strangely makes her unique among the Tekken females.
Tekken has well established lore and characters. There is tons of material for a good anime/movie/story yet they choose to not go in that direction. For example, I wanna see how Heihachi's household life was, I wanna see how he set up the first tournament, I wanna see how Kazuya spent those 2 years as CEO of Mishima Zaibatsu, How he met Jun Kazama, I wanna see how Jin spent those 4 years training under Heihachi. Potential is there, Namco just needs to make the right move.
They've had since the first 4 Tekken games to do something really neat but they've dropped the ball everytime. Don't expect anything. But if you really want a story, go see if any fan fiction has done anything you like. If you're lucky you might find a writer that has fixed up this dumpster fire of a story.
I'm liking the addition of Celina to the podcast. Not only does she give good insight of being a newcomer to the scene and her thoughts on the game in general. She's also a fellow King main. I'm the only King main in my scene and I swear it's rare to find another if I go out. So yea, respect to her
I find it so cool that she mains King and her reasons for choosing him. I'm glad she didnt let that guy sway her to play Ling instead just because she is the typical character for most female Tekken players to choose.
I very much agree with Fergus on Master Raven. Yes, I want more diverse female characters and that of course includes black women in the roster. But genderswapping original chars is not the way to go. Learn from the movies. Genderswapping didn't work there either. People hate that. But not because they hate strong women. Replacing existing characters and franchises by switching gender is just the least creative and laziest way to go. Come up with something original and people will dig it. At least I will, if it is well done.
I wanna agree so much here but they literally did the same thing with Eddy and Christie in Tekken 4 and no one batted an eye. I also don’t see the gender swap thing as a “diversity” choice because of this; they’ve done this before, during a time where people weren’t clamoring for diversity like now. However I can understand that Master Raven is no different at all from normal Raven besides being female and maybe being a bit more of a hardass. She needs to be more distinct and so does Christie.
It really is. Fergus and Cuddles hit the nail on the head with Master Raven and at least for myself, pretty much verbalized why I don't care for Master Raven. Because she's just a gender palette swap of Raven who was already unique in his own right and like Cuddles said, she's just more or less the same kind of Black female design we see in these kinds of games so she doesn't stand out all that much in the grand scheme. A black character that helped break the mold a bit in my opinion was Shinobu from the No More Heroes series. She was not stereotypical for what you'd expect to see with a black female character and I just think it'd be cool to see more black characters like that, breaking up the cookie cutter you usually see with black characters.
This was an awesome talk and I'm always late to the party with these kinds of things. I really enjoyed all of you guys discussing the female characters in relative depth. I agree with the sentiment that in the grand scheme of things, there just really isn't all that much diversity to the ladies of Tekken, especially when compared to Mortal Kombat which I'd argue has the most diversity when it comes to female characters with Killer Instinct following behind it. And don't get me wrong, I do like some of the female characters but you all brought up some very true problems with them. For example Nina Williams used to be my favorite female character of the series. She was the first character I played as in Tekken 2 and I used to funnily call her "Paul's sister" because to 6-7 year old me, they both had blonde hair and wore similar suits (I was using Nina's brown jumpsuit that made me think it looked similar to Paul's biker gear lol). And she stayed my main all the way up to Tekken 5 but as I got older, I started noticing how bland she really was as a character. Aside from the BS excuse about why she doesn't age anymore which like Fergus said, clearly was just to keep her young for every game, they just never gave her much of a personality. Like okay she's cold and focused which is what makes her good at her job but like what more is there to her? What does she like to do when she's not working? What was her past like with her father? What about her mother? And I so agree, they should've totally given her an Iris accent because you wouldn't be able to tell she was Irish at all since as is, she looks quite American lol. There was just so many things that they could've done with her but they didn't and I just had to face the fact that my once favorite female character is kinda bland. I still like playing her but she's not my favorite anymore moving from number 1 to maybe 4 or 6 lol. My favorite female character became Jula but only T3-T6 era. I don't like the whole Streamer thing that they did with her because she feels like a totally different character now and they just should've done that for a new character instead. But anyway, Julia's progression from Tekken 3 to Tekken 4 definitely felt natural. See the way I saw it from a story perspective is that she was a spunky teenager in Tekken 3 who grew into a laid back and studious college student in Tekken 4. She was trying to research forest restoration to help revitalize the forest back in her homeland. But she eventually got wrapped up with the G Corporation and they're research on the Devil Gene. I dunno, I just really liked that because Julia had some personality to her, at least compared to Nina for me and after I took the time to learn how to play her (mostly because I learned how to play Michelle when I went back to Tekken 2 for awhile), she became such a fun character to play. But yeah when they brought her back in Tekken 7 and you see her with that high-pitched Moe' voice and the obsession with streaming, I was just like "WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE REAL JULIA???" lol Sorry, I'm just not a fan of the change, total character flanderization. It reminds me of what they did to Hitomi in Dead or Alive who was my favorite character in that series because she was presented as a carefree but focused fighter only to turn into a total airhead in Dead or Alive 5. Anyway I know this comment is long and I don't want to give a huge monster wall of text but just wanted to end with killer topic discussion, it was a lot of fun to listen to. :D
You guys do realize that every Tekken after 5, every tournament announcement was shorter and shorter. To yearly and even in a month. Not everyone matures at the same rate. I'm going to counter some points on Xiaoyu's discussion. She's youthful. She's 16 in T3 and 19 in T7. I don't expect a massive maturity spike in that timeframe. Xiaoyu's pigtails has become her signature. That's like asking Ken to stop wearing red. Xiaoyu DID drop the pink. In T5DR, she wore orange and has stuck with it eversince. They DID make her hair longer. Infact, in T7, it's the longest it has ever been. And they DID change up her hairstyle. Her bangs are different and she has swirls at the ends oher pigtails
Everything that cuddle said about Christie was spot on. I love Christie and she’s my favorite character in the series and I’m sad she isn’t in 7. I think it would be a disservice to the character if they brought her back and didn’t really shake up her move set and attitude. What irks me even more about that is they’ve had so many different iterations of Tekken to do that too and they haven’t. Whether she comes back in Tekken 7 or the next Tekken game MAKE. HER. DIFFERENT. NAMCO!
Did some digging on the "Vampira" character that was mentioned in relation to the Eliza discussion. Well, "Vampira" was a movie character created and portrayed by - *drum roll* - Maila Elizabeth Syrjäniemi back in the 1950s. I mean, the creators second name is literally Eliza. I'd say it's pretty safe to say that the Tekken Eliza is based on Vampira. Maila was the daughter of a Finnish immigrant to the US. It is debated weather she was actually born in the US or Finland, so Eliza is kinda/maybe the first Tekken character based on a Finnish character. Didn't know any of this before listening to this podcast again and it blew my mind. Especially since I'm from Finland myself and I main Eliza.
The fun thing about Vampira as well is that she was the woman who paved the way for Elvira what with being the first lady in black horror hostess on television built off of Morticia Addams from the Addams Family.
Idk why people find it so weird that Dr B made her with chainsaws. Fathers normally want their daughters to be safe, to protect them. Making your own daughter strong is the best way to do it, I think. He made her pretty, smart and strong. I don't really like the character, but the backstory is kinda neat. The fact that she's massively produced and sold as a weapon is weird to me. Maybe it was a way for him to get the budget, so while he was making a weapon he re-created his daughter Ironman 1 style, so just one model would have that personality idk
If you're going to give her a weapon, why chainsaws? Why not some sort of projectile weapon, or just blades. Chainsaws seem like the most counterproductive.
@@anibalmattiwos7613 Because chainsaws are badass and just completely overkill. Just like Celina mentioned on the podcast, in Japan they like to combine things that are a huge contrast to each other. A cute girl with huge chainsaws for destruction fit that template pretty well.
Yeah I've gotta admit that while I still don't like Alisa and I think her overall aesthetic just clashes with what I associated Tekken with, I must admit that after hearing about her backstory, it's actually pretty interesting.
What bugs me with Lili atm is that she's in a game that she doesn't belong in. She retains her linear moves and relatively the best sidestep (before Zafina and Fahk dropped), albiet nerfed due to the Tekken 7 movement system. Especially now in S3 where everyone has great tracking/homing on their key moves whilst Lili barely has any, she gets shut down by the power creep easily. That's what I believe makes her Bottom 10, close to Bottom 5, imo
Fahk sidestep is now worse than Marduk in recent patch; his backdash is still the best though. But I agree. I sub Lili and also Chloe but I would put Chloe above her in tiers. I'd only pick Lili for specific matchups like punishing Hei ff+2 and Chloe's Cali roll easy OS.
Kunimitsu was not a man in Tekken 1. They used Yoshi’s model because they use a similar fighting style. It was simply design limitations from 1994. This is fixed by T2. Idk why people try to force this narrative lol.
What if Alisa had combat damage on her body revealing the metal exoskeleton like proper terminator. That would be pretty damn crazy and cool, imo. The reason I love Lili is her fighting style, she uses all the "tricking" moves that I love seeing. I remember Jujimufu a content creator from a bygone era, he made tutorials on tricking, which is basically "cool looking gymnastics". And I love the hime cut bangs... WIsh her df1 wasn't so bad :\
Combat damage(like in MK for example) is maybe too much but "terminator" Alisa custom would be awesome. Kinda like in Tekken Blood Vengeance movie where she gets beaten and is missing about 30% of face skin, revealing metal parts and glowing green eye.
@@iskaroth Totally, it doesn't need to be super graphic, but just enough to inform the character. And TBH tekken could do model decals (dirt, bruises, etc), other games have been doing it for a while. That whole sweat thing is cute but... kinda low effort.
This was a really enjoyable podcast to listen to. I'm glad everyone touched and agreed that half (if not, most of the characters) have been reduced to comedic relief and that their storyline potentials literally got thrown into the fire. I feel Christie had a lot of potential to become an edgier, darker character regarding her grandfather's death, but then she would've just been another character focused on revenge, and given where the plot is now, she really doesn't have a place. My earliest memory of having a favorite female character was Sakura from Puzzle Street Fighter II(?) on the PS1. She had an outfit similar to Sailor Moon and I thought her name was dope. Regarding my main, I am a Williams player but feel more of an affinity to Anna - she's sassy, flirty, debonair, and there's a sense of devastation behind her fighting style. I do want Jun to come back, because of the aesthetic in her character and fighting style. She's calm, fluid, and graceful, but her style has an air of precision and conviction.
Would love to hear an episode on the topic of character customisation, outfits and character design in general. And what you want to see of that in Tekken 8
I agree that Christie isnt essential to Tekken 7 but I always loved her personality. Even with her rather sad story, she always maintains her upbeat, positive spirited, and lovely personality. She is aware of the fact that shes an attractive individual but doesnt shove it into the opponents face like Anna or Katarina for an example. She always had something about her which was equally as cool and chill as it was sexy. She wasn't sexy in a seductive but rather playful and cool way and I think that made her charismatic. Idk at least that's how I feel about her 🙈
Yeah I agree with you. Christie was designed to be sexy and she knows she is but she doesn't lead with her looks and she has this positive, upbeat, and carefree aura about her despite her sad story. So while I never really played her, I do see what you mean.
Always loved wavedash podcast, but now that you're time stamping them thats even better imo. Makes it so I can watch as little or as much as I have time for between other shit
Is it just me who likes Julia new design? I really think she's really cute and kinda looks cool, and looking back from the Ganryu trailer we can see Julia still keeps her serious personality (only shows her streamer character when streaming) I started from Tekken 7 so don't know much about her in pervious game. 😶
I also find her much more attractive and interesting now. Before, she was that teenage girl dressed like Pokahontas that happened to be a super intelligent scientist at the same time but also pray the spirits. Completely stucked between her youth, her native american heritage, her researcher's background and her shamanic faith. And the worst part, perhaps, was that it only made her feel bland.
i'd really really love to see/hear bit of a better audio balance of Cuddle. she either gets cut off by the connection, or her voice clips. for me as non native English speaker, it's really difficult to get what she tries to say. (as she also expresses herself so lively)
I always thought eliza's design was heavily based of Castlevania type designs, she reminds me so much of Miriam from bloodstained in her design and as a fan of that hammy classic vampire design I love it
If you plan to do a Tekken Lore episode, I recommend you to watch the Gizou Gitai series about Tekken. They are really well done and explore the themes and story quite well.
Take a shot every time Cuddle says "like". But now seriously, I don't think the problem is representation. I never since I was a kid (I'm 31) thought "gosh, I wonder who's latino in this fighting game", but you nailed it when you said that design is important. The story can make part of the design, and I know this cause I work in stories myself. Just look at Arya talking about the coolest characters, they don't have to represent anything, but they have to be interesting. And stripping a narrative background from the characters is a great disservice to the game. I made a Reddit post on how I wish tekken 8 to be and with those backgrounds I gave, I think someone would make great designs with them. www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/h9em0i/tekken_8_wishlist_regarding_characters/?context=3
That zafina part makes me all giggly inside and i totally agree with everything that they say. She is the best tekken female character imo cus there is NO one like her and that's what make her so iconic. Love her!
Short and sweet segment but what more can you say about Zafina she's awesome. Her redesign showcased in her S3 trailer got me interested in her and now I main her with King second who was my former main.
Do people really want eliza to lose her cancels/meter/ex moves? Take these away and she just fall apart. Seriously i get the hate for 2D but to want a character like eliza to lose the only thing thats keeping her alive is just silly
@@shiftyshitter348 and be what? anther boring character like shaheen,kazumi,leo,kat,fahk,leroy etc all having the exact same move df1 mid poke, df2 15f launcher stance that are either for mix up or pressure. I want characters to be unique and have strength and weaknesses
@@JarlSwagDog well, I don't like that characters in Tekken 7 all play basically the same either, but there are ways of making characters unique, like Claudio is a pretty cool and unique character, the Bamco devs are just too lazy and they have to cram a million useless and generic moves into every character, so it's hard to have uniqueness with that many moves
In the end, Namco was so afraid of designing a female character that is physically above 24 that they decided to include Kunimitsu's daughter instead of the real one...
Overwatch is a very good example of how to design characters with a unique look and chatacter. Both male and female . I implore TBS to do a comparison of Tekken and Overwatch characters video of some sorts on this.
Oh for sure. I don't play Overwatch because I don't play FPS but I will say that they totally nailed the character diversity. There is diversity from both the male and female characters, big and small, young and old, they've got a little bit of everything.
Ehrgeiz is pronounced air-guytz btw. At least that's how it's pronounced in it's native tongue of German lol. edit: best female fighting game character just got announced for SFV and it's Akira Kazama !
I'm still bothered that Nina looks like she could be steve's sister while she still in fact steve's mother (just like JC and Michelle in tag 2😅. I knowshe went into cryo sleep with anna but come on we grew up with her let her grow up with us all who play tekken since tekken 1😓
Exactly. Let Nina and Anna age as well as Michelle and Jun. Older women can still be sexy and fun. The ageism towards the female characters just needs to go now.
There are too many to pick, but if I had to go by series/game then at least it'd be; - Helena (DoA) - Eliza (Tekken) - Ivy (Soul Calibur) - Baiken (GG) - Nine (BB) - C.Viper or Poison (SF) - Android 21 (DB) - Samus (Smash) Though sometimes they're not my main in those games - for instance in DoA it's Rachel or Bayman, in Smash I play more Ike, SF more Ken etc.
A critique I have of this convo is not acknowledging the context of the decisions y'all are critiquing. (Even though I more-or-less agree) Ex. Yes, there is a patriarchy irl in which women are devalued as they age whereas men gain equity. But if we gon take it there, I'd like to see folks come just as well-researched and prepared they do w the in-game topics. Cuz how many fgc heads don't even know what patriarchy is? Prolly a BUNCH right? Or else we wouldn't have had a 2020 full of assault allegations. So I feel like this is audience where it's important to make a super strong case about this kinda stuff. Or else they'll use it as confirmation bias the other way. Cuz this felt short-sighted. Like cherrypicking. I haven't read all the comments, but I can already guess it's a bunch of either A.Tekken replaces men and women. Men w women. Etc. And/or B. They don't age anybody except Heihachi. Paul, Lei, Law, Bruce, all look 30-sum in their 60s
Well i do like the fact that julia became Jaycee because she was falling in for an injured wrestler in tag 2 but at the same time that wrestler could've come to tekken 7 and become the new rival of the kjngs and marduck😁
See that would've been cool and would make more sense for the unnamed wrestler to be the new rival for the Kings & Marduk as opposed to Julia who had nothing to do with wrestling and felt forced.
Vanessa (KoF) is one of my favorite fighting game characters because she's a butch, bareknuckle boxer, but they never carry that to its full potential....she's always just femme enough, just sexy enough to avoid becoming the lesbian icon she was born to be. Nina needs a hook hand. Julia needs direction. Leo needs both male and female swimsuit options.
I'd love that tbh, but make it Traditional Ju Jitsu since Paul is (apparently) meant to be the Judo rep. Could do some interesting stuff by having a character focus less on combos and nasty CH throws and other throws leading to strong oki or disgusting frame advantage. Have it have brutal animations and a generally very grounded character compared to the acrobatics and stuff of the rest of the female cast.
@@Roflo13east interesting point but I feel Paul has more karate base moves. The are like over 30 different throws in judo so that's why I said grappling judo.
My first memory of playing fighting games was Tekken Goding Anna Williams on PCSX2 on my computer that didn't had dedicated GPU, so I did it at around 18-21FPS. Took 2 months to do so. XD
The only hope for Christie is for her to somehow be friends with Katarina (Kat would need to be removed from the game) and she inherits Kats moves and retains some Capoeira moves as well and become cancerously unique.
Honestly I don't see Christie coming in. Katarina literally looks like Christie only with sunglasses and a more sexualized outfit. The way I see it, either Christie comes in (which I doubt she will) or in Tekken 8, Katarina gets dropped and they bring Christie back or vice versa.
IMO any character derived from another character is almost always not good,not only because it is lazy, but also because the only way they are known is from the original character and how they compare to the original. Batgirl is batman's love interest and largely the same as him. Supergirl is superman's relative (i guess?) and is largely the same as superman. She hulk defining characteristic is that she is better than hulk. The entire young generation cast of boruto is overshadowed by their parents, and so on. The only exception i know is miles morales, but even miles need an exceptionally successful movie to make himself distinctive.
Lili's fighting style looks like Fencing and Ballroom dancing to me....Kind of like how Alisa looks to be Ice Skating and Chloe does Break Dancing....If I'm making sense
I love chloe shes my main character and i understand that her fighting is like her putting on a show but i really do wish that her outros at the least were like her story outro where she's like brutal
I end up picking females because they usually have the tools I'm looking for. E.G. Nimble and can get out of jams. Also, They're easy on the eyes so it's win win
It's a bit odd that Tekken's female characters feel so generic for the most part, considering how their playstyles are varied and unique. They just didn't bother to change looks and add depth to personalities as much as other series such as Street Fighter. By 3rd Strike we already had Chun-Li, Cammy, Makoto, Sakura, Rose, Karin, Ibuki... they have a fair share of similarities with some aspects but it's very hard, if not impossible, to pinpoint a singular characteristic all of those characters have, besides being female. But when it comes to Tekken things feel less varied.
@@JoshTrevett No way, if you didn't their age you couldn't look at Anna and Nina and say they're under 30, it would be a struggle to say that in any Tekken game!
You're able to pinpoint differences easier in SF because the game can incorperate weird/unatural moves but Tekken is way more grounded to real life (forgetting about the juggles).
@@welsh_steel2285 It isn't necessarily rooted on gameplay by itself, but mostly personality and appearance. Gameplay is a huge part of it, don't get me wrong, but not everything. Also, you can be expressive with a series more rooted in reality, because people are different. And for a good example, take the Mishimas. Every single one of them fights using the Mishima style of karate, but each and every one of them has a differing playstyle. Every single one of them is a dude that can be viewed as evil by all of society but they all have different motives, different goals and different personalities.
The point these guys are missing is Japanese fighting games are not trying to be real, they are trying to be an escape from reality. You can say the same about most of the male cast who look like bodybuilders and basically have the same body type except noctis and bob. On the other hand American fighting games like mortal kombat want their characters to look real. I get what you guys are saying but the fans and players should never force developers at least on a cosmetic and character design sense cuz that's just no different from censorship and is taking away from the developers' creative freedom. Btw Nina's VA sounds badass and is perfect for her imo, she also voiced Motoko Kusanagi from ghost in the shell and various other popular characters in anime.
Except no not really. Even before Bob was introduced in the game, the male characters were still fairly diverse. You had the lean and sprinty body type like Marshall Law and Lee Chaolan to more your more traditional athletic guys like Jin, Hwoarang, Baek, and then you had the bigger guys like King, Armor King, and Marduk. And then of course the ages vary from someone young like Jin to old like Wang. And who says that they are trying to force the developers to change? They're just making suggestions and ideas, not forcing anyone to do anything. It's not wrong to think that wanting to see some diversity with the female characters would be interesting to see to help break up the monotony of things.
As a gay man, I also tend to gravitate naturally towards badass women in fighting games for some reason. Yes, I bought Anna day 1. It's rather that or rippling, buff, tall huge men lol I rarely play one or the other. I hate hard grapplers though so my big muscle man pool is pretty limited in fighting games. However, in Tekken, Hwoarang stood out to me from gameplay alone so I guess Tekken became the exception.
@@Esthoneal It's interesting. Straight men obviously tend to go to women because they're into that, but a lot of straight men play male characters for the power fantasy element, or to uphold masculinity in some way. I've known many straight men who pick girls so they can see things they like when they play, and frankly, I do the same with guys lol but I have this weird fascination with women who own up to their badassery, like Anna does.
@@somethingsomething9006 Lol I used to main Alisa but later switched to Duk and it little to do with the fact that he is huge lol. Its cause he is fun to play
@@Esthoneal I really want to get into Marduk eventually, he ticks off all the boxes for me (besides the fact that I'm not into absolute psychopath lol)
Josie is sooooo blaaaaannndddd.... I disown her as her fellow countryman. I do enjoy playing her from time to time, but not watching the intros and outros, its obnoxious
The outros when she's like "im still ready to fight" is what makes me love her when shes like super confident and kick ass even if i don't actually play her
her personality is not convincing but she has some great moves like uf 3+4 or the butterfly kick (uf3). its unfortunate that she is railroaded into the mix up gameplay. it makes her weak in tournament where people have defense.
As a waifu player it's really hard to pick my favorite, but Ryougi Shiki is my favourite character ever so since she's in Melty Blood, it's her. It's funny that my characters are Shiki, Ayane, Sakura and Asuka, all mid-tier asian tomboys focused on controlling space.
Aside from the costume (not that anyone wears that kind of outfit, but it's a good representation of the flag) Josie doesnt represent Philippines at all :lol: Her accent sounds very american. Her name is literally just a womanized version of Jose Rizal's name. She 's an escrimador which is a martial art that uses a lot of hand parries , like 90% hand parries which was not utilized at all. Josie feels like a whatever, to me as a filipino at least.
![Tekken 8 - Yoshimitsu Overview & Changes [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_0rRVSizf-o/mqdefault.jpg)
![Tekken 8 - Yoshimitsu Overview & Changes [4K]](/img/tr.png)
![Tekken 8 - King Overview & Changes [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cgs9fCN8lJI/mqdefault.jpg)
Of course we have the foremost expert on females in fighting games.
Fergus.
Well, Dragunov speaks russian. For example his most famous quote is "hmm" or "hm", oh also I'm pretty sure he said "huh".
His hobbies are listed as singing.
Most fun podcast I've been on to date!
Lucky chloe really suits the streamer look imo. Not Julia
Yeah honestly when I first saw her on the character roster I thought she was a gamer girl.
It’s a lot more forgiving if you know the reason why she adopted the streamer personality though. I think lowkey they took her characteristic as a nature lover to the next level with this new Julia. But what I want to see in a future cutscene animation is how she is still the same spiritual, calm Julia when she is offline
@@stanfordc5125 Agreed. It totally makes sense to me that Julia is a streamer now. It makes more sense than her becoming a pro-wrestler. They could have just kept her original personality and not go overboard with the e-girl gimmicks.
Igor Soares yeah but half of what I mean is that as a streamer, the bigger personalities get the donations that’s why she’s so spunky. And she wants Raise enough money for the forest
@@scorpioigor As someone who loves Julia but hated what they did to her in Tekken 7, I will agree that if they just kept her the same but just with a newfound interest in streaming without the E-girl crap and the obnoxious high-pitch voice, I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Fergus is my best girl and waifu!
Sameroni. I met him once at a tournament in Naples and I froze up like an hysteric fangirl.
Of course I'm gonna be biased as a Nina main, but I think Nina's personality and her filling the archetype of "cold-blooded action girl secret agent assassin" is actually pretty well reflected in her gameplay. Her, Dragunov and Raven/Master Raven are kind of all the same type of stoic badass killers as characters but Nina lacks the brute force of Dragunov or the ninja trickery of the Ravens.
Instead she must use finesse and precision to make her way to her target and it's a very accurate representation of her gameplan in-game. When you're past the level where her scrub-killer strings works, you realize that she lacks good approach moves, her generics and other strong pokes have very poor range and her long range whiff punish launchers are pretty unsafe so they must be used very precisely as opposed to a yolo Claudio hopkick or Paul df2. Ideally, you play Nina approaching with extra caution, until you can exploit a gap in your opponent's defense to then push them back against the wall where Nina finally becomes a monster of pressure with her SS1 cancel game that is entirely as good as your execution gets. That gameplay imo is a very good representation of the " secret agent assassin" archetype she fills in.
I think Anna in general is more popular because she's much more expressive and her being the underdog in the Williams rivalry because she constantly has to deal with Nina's sadistic cruel bullying that borders Bryan levels of psychopathy like that Tekken 5 ending where she blows up a movie set while Anna has the same ending but plays a harmless prank on her instead. Like if you popped a boner in front of the sisters, Anna would arouse you more, then laugh at you before stomping your dick and blowing you a kiss goodbye, whereas Nina would just shoot it off without blinking. But some of us like to play as the villainess (and superior sister who doesn't have an obvious inferiority complex ;))
Leadblast and which string of her are viable at higher level? And how is ss1 broken lol?
This Williams main agrees. 👍😎
Nina is the only female character I like currently in Tekken because she's a cold bitch but not completely heartless. She's also not as over the top as the other girls in terms of being goofy like Chloe, Ling, and Alisa or too slutty like characters like Katarina or Anna. Like Fergus said that over the sexy thing appeals more to gay men.
As a Williams main, I like how Nina is not here for the bs, cold and straight to the point. I do think she needs an animation update and to have an Irish accent tho
Yeah I mean as someone who used to be a big Nina fan, I love her fighting style and she's still one of my top 3 mains and I will always have love for her because she was the first Tekken character I played with in Tekken 2 back in the day and especially loved her in Tekken 3 but it's just her lack of personality that kinda pushed me away. Like I get that she's serious and focus, pretty much the opposite of the flirtatious and expressive Anna but it still would be nice to see what Nina is like when she's not on the job. Like what does she like to do to unwind? Any hobbies? You know little things like that to help humanize her a bit and show she's more than just a badass contract killer. I guess for me the shtick was getting a little stale by the time i got to Tekken 6.
Its not a fighting game character but Ana from Overwatch is a perfect modern model for a female character. She’s a tough, resolute Egyptian soldier, Who’s also an affectionate mother trying to protect her daughter. just shows a stroke of genius by the designers, for me its a wonderful step forward when it comes to representation considering that i’m an Arabic as well
100%, her visual design and the 'heal sniper' concept are ("/were" haven't played in a while) so perfectly done, it's incredible
She a bit too old lol. I do like the skins that show her in her prime
@@sunnymane Hey in the world of video games where someone like Heihachi is still able to kick ass in his 60s, why not have an old woman be able to do the same lol
Decadent Gamer lol fair enough!
Kunimitsu has the whole package. Yes, she could have had a stronger moveset but she's scarred, older, badass and mysterious. She even has muscle definition which strangely makes her unique among the Tekken females.
I miss Kunimitsu though I like her and Nina.
What do you mean by muscle definition?
@@Mr440c Well, she has a defined musculature. Particularly her abdominal muscles.
@@niklasekelof7319 I can't recall it. I'm not that surprised though. TTT2 has better character models in general. I miss Jin's TTT2 look.
@@Mr440c Basically she has visible abs in Tag 2, which is quite uncommon in Tekken.
Tekken has well established lore and characters. There is tons of material for a good anime/movie/story yet they choose to not go in that direction.
For example, I wanna see how Heihachi's household life was, I wanna see how he set up the first tournament, I wanna see how Kazuya spent those 2 years as CEO of Mishima Zaibatsu, How he met Jun Kazama, I wanna see how Jin spent those 4 years training under Heihachi. Potential is there, Namco just needs to make the right move.
They've had since the first 4 Tekken games to do something really neat but they've dropped the ball everytime. Don't expect anything.
But if you really want a story, go see if any fan fiction has done anything you like. If you're lucky you might find a writer that has fixed up this dumpster fire of a story.
@@joshuaxiong8377 I actually did about a week ago, "Tekken 7 blood feud".
Yeah that would be great 😮👌🏻
I think there will be more adaptions in the future!
@@sunnymane I think it will definitely happen in the future, as well. Look at Granblue Fantasy anime adaptation, it was pretty fun.
I'm liking the addition of Celina to the podcast. Not only does she give good insight of being a newcomer to the scene and her thoughts on the game in general. She's also a fellow King main. I'm the only King main in my scene and I swear it's rare to find another if I go out. So yea, respect to her
I find it so cool that she mains King and her reasons for choosing him. I'm glad she didnt let that guy sway her to play Ling instead just because she is the typical character for most female Tekken players to choose.
I can definitely relate to her. I picked up both Tekken and King at roughly the same time as she did.
Yay this was my favorite Wavedash! Hope Namco sees this (especially the Anna part) :P
I very much agree with Fergus on Master Raven. Yes, I want more diverse female characters and that of course includes black women in the roster. But genderswapping original chars is not the way to go. Learn from the movies. Genderswapping didn't work there either. People hate that. But not because they hate strong women. Replacing existing characters and franchises by switching gender is just the least creative and laziest way to go. Come up with something original and people will dig it. At least I will, if it is well done.
I wanna agree so much here but they literally did the same thing with Eddy and Christie in Tekken 4 and no one batted an eye.
I also don’t see the gender swap thing as a “diversity” choice because of this; they’ve done this before, during a time where people weren’t clamoring for diversity like now.
However I can understand that Master Raven is no different at all from normal Raven besides being female and maybe being a bit more of a hardass. She needs to be more distinct and so does Christie.
Master Raven is so much cooler than regular Raven tho.
@@requiem418 You obviously never watched Blade :)
It really is. Fergus and Cuddles hit the nail on the head with Master Raven and at least for myself, pretty much verbalized why I don't care for Master Raven. Because she's just a gender palette swap of Raven who was already unique in his own right and like Cuddles said, she's just more or less the same kind of Black female design we see in these kinds of games so she doesn't stand out all that much in the grand scheme. A black character that helped break the mold a bit in my opinion was Shinobu from the No More Heroes series. She was not stereotypical for what you'd expect to see with a black female character and I just think it'd be cool to see more black characters like that, breaking up the cookie cutter you usually see with black characters.
@@molle1466 I did
Saw Fergus. Knew it was gonna be *CULTURED*
All fax no printer
Talking about nationalities, there is no Brazilian character that isn't degenerate.
Eddy, Katarina, Laura (SFV), Blanka (SFV) and so on...
Giovanna(GGST) is pretty honest, all things considered.
HappyCamper DS99 at least during the betas, every Giovanna I fought treated the floor as lava and/or just abused her safe drill.
This was an awesome talk and I'm always late to the party with these kinds of things. I really enjoyed all of you guys discussing the female characters in relative depth. I agree with the sentiment that in the grand scheme of things, there just really isn't all that much diversity to the ladies of Tekken, especially when compared to Mortal Kombat which I'd argue has the most diversity when it comes to female characters with Killer Instinct following behind it. And don't get me wrong, I do like some of the female characters but you all brought up some very true problems with them. For example Nina Williams used to be my favorite female character of the series. She was the first character I played as in Tekken 2 and I used to funnily call her "Paul's sister" because to 6-7 year old me, they both had blonde hair and wore similar suits (I was using Nina's brown jumpsuit that made me think it looked similar to Paul's biker gear lol). And she stayed my main all the way up to Tekken 5 but as I got older, I started noticing how bland she really was as a character.
Aside from the BS excuse about why she doesn't age anymore which like Fergus said, clearly was just to keep her young for every game, they just never gave her much of a personality. Like okay she's cold and focused which is what makes her good at her job but like what more is there to her? What does she like to do when she's not working? What was her past like with her father? What about her mother? And I so agree, they should've totally given her an Iris accent because you wouldn't be able to tell she was Irish at all since as is, she looks quite American lol. There was just so many things that they could've done with her but they didn't and I just had to face the fact that my once favorite female character is kinda bland. I still like playing her but she's not my favorite anymore moving from number 1 to maybe 4 or 6 lol.
My favorite female character became Jula but only T3-T6 era. I don't like the whole Streamer thing that they did with her because she feels like a totally different character now and they just should've done that for a new character instead. But anyway, Julia's progression from Tekken 3 to Tekken 4 definitely felt natural. See the way I saw it from a story perspective is that she was a spunky teenager in Tekken 3 who grew into a laid back and studious college student in Tekken 4. She was trying to research forest restoration to help revitalize the forest back in her homeland. But she eventually got wrapped up with the G Corporation and they're research on the Devil Gene. I dunno, I just really liked that because Julia had some personality to her, at least compared to Nina for me and after I took the time to learn how to play her (mostly because I learned how to play Michelle when I went back to Tekken 2 for awhile), she became such a fun character to play. But yeah when they brought her back in Tekken 7 and you see her with that high-pitched Moe' voice and the obsession with streaming, I was just like "WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE REAL JULIA???" lol Sorry, I'm just not a fan of the change, total character flanderization. It reminds me of what they did to Hitomi in Dead or Alive who was my favorite character in that series because she was presented as a carefree but focused fighter only to turn into a total airhead in Dead or Alive 5.
Anyway I know this comment is long and I don't want to give a huge monster wall of text but just wanted to end with killer topic discussion, it was a lot of fun to listen to. :D
You guys do realize that every Tekken after 5, every tournament announcement was shorter and shorter. To yearly and even in a month. Not everyone matures at the same rate.
I'm going to counter some points on Xiaoyu's discussion.
She's youthful. She's 16 in T3 and 19 in T7. I don't expect a massive maturity spike in that timeframe.
Xiaoyu's pigtails has become her signature. That's like asking Ken to stop wearing red.
Xiaoyu DID drop the pink. In T5DR, she wore orange and has stuck with it eversince.
They DID make her hair longer. Infact, in T7, it's the longest it has ever been. And they DID change up her hairstyle. Her bangs are different and she has swirls at the ends oher pigtails
Everything that cuddle said about Christie was spot on. I love Christie and she’s my favorite character in the series and I’m sad she isn’t in 7. I think it would be a disservice to the character if they brought her back and didn’t really shake up her move set and attitude. What irks me even more about that is they’ve had so many different iterations of Tekken to do that too and they haven’t. Whether she comes back in Tekken 7 or the next Tekken game MAKE. HER. DIFFERENT. NAMCO!
EMagnificent no❤️
There are clear biases. The biggest being with the treatment of Akuma/Geese with Eliza.
I used to have a irrational hate for Fergus,but after watching this it becomes clear to me that he's a good guy.Thank you Arya
Did some digging on the "Vampira" character that was mentioned in relation to the Eliza discussion. Well, "Vampira" was a movie character created and portrayed by - *drum roll* - Maila Elizabeth Syrjäniemi back in the 1950s. I mean, the creators second name is literally Eliza. I'd say it's pretty safe to say that the Tekken Eliza is based on Vampira. Maila was the daughter of a Finnish immigrant to the US. It is debated weather she was actually born in the US or Finland, so Eliza is kinda/maybe the first Tekken character based on a Finnish character.
Didn't know any of this before listening to this podcast again and it blew my mind. Especially since I'm from Finland myself and I main Eliza.
The fun thing about Vampira as well is that she was the woman who paved the way for Elvira what with being the first lady in black horror hostess on television built off of Morticia Addams from the Addams Family.
Idk why people find it so weird that Dr B made her with chainsaws. Fathers normally want their daughters to be safe, to protect them. Making your own daughter strong is the best way to do it, I think. He made her pretty, smart and strong. I don't really like the character, but the backstory is kinda neat.
The fact that she's massively produced and sold as a weapon is weird to me. Maybe it was a way for him to get the budget, so while he was making a weapon he re-created his daughter Ironman 1 style, so just one model would have that personality idk
If you're going to give her a weapon, why chainsaws?
Why not some sort of projectile weapon, or just blades.
Chainsaws seem like the most counterproductive.
@@anibalmattiwos7613 Because chainsaws are badass and just completely overkill. Just like Celina mentioned on the podcast, in Japan they like to combine things that are a huge contrast to each other. A cute girl with huge chainsaws for destruction fit that template pretty well.
Yeah I've gotta admit that while I still don't like Alisa and I think her overall aesthetic just clashes with what I associated Tekken with, I must admit that after hearing about her backstory, it's actually pretty interesting.
What bugs me with Lili atm is that she's in a game that she doesn't belong in. She retains her linear moves and relatively the best sidestep (before Zafina and Fahk dropped), albiet nerfed due to the Tekken 7 movement system. Especially now in S3 where everyone has great tracking/homing on their key moves whilst Lili barely has any, she gets shut down by the power creep easily. That's what I believe makes her Bottom 10, close to Bottom 5, imo
Fahk sidestep is now worse than Marduk in recent patch; his backdash is still the best though.
But I agree. I sub Lili and also Chloe but I would put Chloe above her in tiers. I'd only pick Lili for specific matchups like punishing Hei ff+2 and Chloe's Cali roll easy OS.
I can destroy with Lili lol. She is a bit predictable but you can work around it. I’ve even seen Knee use her before in tournament
Kunimitsu was not a man in Tekken 1. They used Yoshi’s model because they use a similar fighting style. It was simply design limitations from 1994. This is fixed by T2. Idk why people try to force this narrative lol.
What if Alisa had combat damage on her body revealing the metal exoskeleton like proper terminator. That would be pretty damn crazy and cool, imo.
The reason I love Lili is her fighting style, she uses all the "tricking" moves that I love seeing. I remember Jujimufu a content creator from a bygone era, he made tutorials on tricking, which is basically "cool looking gymnastics". And I love the hime cut bangs...
WIsh her df1 wasn't so bad :\
Combat damage(like in MK for example) is maybe too much but "terminator" Alisa custom would be awesome. Kinda like in Tekken Blood Vengeance movie where she gets beaten and is missing about 30% of face skin, revealing metal parts and glowing green eye.
@@iskaroth Totally, it doesn't need to be super graphic, but just enough to inform the character. And TBH tekken could do model decals (dirt, bruises, etc), other games have been doing it for a while. That whole sweat thing is cute but... kinda low effort.
Just came here for Anna. And I’m pleased.
This was a really enjoyable podcast to listen to. I'm glad everyone touched and agreed that half (if not, most of the characters) have been reduced to comedic relief and that their storyline potentials literally got thrown into the fire. I feel Christie had a lot of potential to become an edgier, darker character regarding her grandfather's death, but then she would've just been another character focused on revenge, and given where the plot is now, she really doesn't have a place.
My earliest memory of having a favorite female character was Sakura from Puzzle Street Fighter II(?) on the PS1. She had an outfit similar to Sailor Moon and I thought her name was dope. Regarding my main, I am a Williams player but feel more of an affinity to Anna - she's sassy, flirty, debonair, and there's a sense of devastation behind her fighting style. I do want Jun to come back, because of the aesthetic in her character and fighting style. She's calm, fluid, and graceful, but her style has an air of precision and conviction.
Fergus really appreciates the tropes and aesthetics given to women in Tekken that some people may overlook! Nice points friend
how did i miss this excellent episode
Would love to hear an episode on the topic of character customisation, outfits and character design in general. And what you want to see of that in Tekken 8
I agree that Christie isnt essential to Tekken 7 but I always loved her personality. Even with her rather sad story, she always maintains her upbeat, positive spirited, and lovely personality. She is aware of the fact that shes an attractive individual but doesnt shove it into the opponents face like Anna or Katarina for an example. She always had something about her which was equally as cool and chill as it was sexy. She wasn't sexy in a seductive but rather playful and cool way and I think that made her charismatic. Idk at least that's how I feel about her 🙈
Yeah I agree with you. Christie was designed to be sexy and she knows she is but she doesn't lead with her looks and she has this positive, upbeat, and carefree aura about her despite her sad story. So while I never really played her, I do see what you mean.
Always loved wavedash podcast, but now that you're time stamping them thats even better imo. Makes it so I can watch as little or as much as I have time for between other shit
Ehrgeiz is pronounced: air guyts
Is it just me who likes Julia new design? I really think she's really cute and kinda looks cool, and looking back from the Ganryu trailer we can see Julia still keeps her serious personality (only shows her streamer character when streaming)
I started from Tekken 7 so don't know much about her in pervious game. 😶
I also find her much more attractive and interesting now. Before, she was that teenage girl dressed like Pokahontas that happened to be a super intelligent scientist at the same time but also pray the spirits. Completely stucked between her youth, her native american heritage, her researcher's background and her shamanic faith. And the worst part, perhaps, was that it only made her feel bland.
Brilliant Podcast! , and such a nice touch you added timestamps. Perfect!
Speaking of Asuka, I like her T5 CGi look, but her face kinda morphed through time and I'm not a fan of her current look.
Everyone has but yeah asuka never improved
Lovely Ms Chang on the thumbnail 🧡
Izanami and Izayoi in BBCF and Yuzu in UNICLR are my mains.
i'd really really love to see/hear bit of a better audio balance of Cuddle.
she either gets cut off by the connection, or her voice clips.
for me as non native English speaker, it's really difficult to get what she tries to say.
(as she also expresses herself so lively)
Much love and respect for TBS. Really hope there casts can come to YT a bit earlier. Watching stuff on twitch is not comfortable
There were some issues with downloading VODs from Twitch last week which was the main cause behind the delay.
@@ThatBlastedSalami make sure to clip the starscream bits from the last podcast, that tissuemon story was epic.
@@alikhavari4250 I've already backed it all up. WD19 will be going up later this week.
I'm 40% into the video (have this in the background at work) and this is great so far.
I always thought eliza's design was heavily based of Castlevania type designs, she reminds me so much of Miriam from bloodstained in her design and as a fan of that hammy classic vampire design I love it
If you plan to do a Tekken Lore episode, I recommend you to watch the Gizou Gitai series about Tekken. They are really well done and explore the themes and story quite well.
Take a shot every time Cuddle says "like".
But now seriously, I don't think the problem is representation. I never since I was a kid (I'm 31) thought "gosh, I wonder who's latino in this fighting game", but you nailed it when you said that design is important. The story can make part of the design, and I know this cause I work in stories myself. Just look at Arya talking about the coolest characters, they don't have to represent anything, but they have to be interesting. And stripping a narrative background from the characters is a great disservice to the game. I made a Reddit post on how I wish tekken 8 to be and with those backgrounds I gave, I think someone would make great designs with them.
www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/h9em0i/tekken_8_wishlist_regarding_characters/?context=3
That zafina part makes me all giggly inside and i totally agree with everything that they say. She is the best tekken female character imo cus there is NO one like her and that's what make her so iconic. Love her!
Short and sweet segment but what more can you say about Zafina she's awesome. Her redesign showcased in her S3 trailer got me interested in her and now I main her with King second who was my former main.
So iconic she's hardly picked
@@LoneTaurus82 exactly! love the fact that they only said good things about her.
@@trezayngounder558 oi gtfo with your negativity. go cry somewhere else.
IK I was smiling the whole time. Zafina is the best female character imo she’s so interesting and unique I love her❤️
Do people really want eliza to lose her cancels/meter/ex moves? Take these away and she just fall apart. Seriously i get the hate for 2D but to want a character like eliza to lose the only thing thats keeping her alive is just silly
Or you can just give her a 3d character moveset...
@@shiftyshitter348 and be what? anther boring character like shaheen,kazumi,leo,kat,fahk,leroy etc all having the exact same move df1 mid poke, df2 15f launcher stance that are either for mix up or pressure. I want characters to be unique and have strength and weaknesses
@@JarlSwagDog well, I don't like that characters in Tekken 7 all play basically the same either, but there are ways of making characters unique, like Claudio is a pretty cool and unique character, the Bamco devs are just too lazy and they have to cram a million useless and generic moves into every character, so it's hard to have uniqueness with that many moves
People want her to be removed, but if need to stay losing the 2d BS is a must IMO.
@@Leadblast what exactly does her 2d bs have that other Tekken characters can't already do?
In the end, Namco was so afraid of designing a female character that is physically above 24 that they decided to include Kunimitsu's daughter instead of the real one...
EXACTLY. It was so disappointing to see that once again they retired an older woman for a young teenage replacement..
Salina would love Kunimitsu. She's pretty quite lol
Overwatch is a very good example of how to design characters with a unique look and chatacter.
Both male and female .
I implore TBS to do a comparison of Tekken and Overwatch characters video of some sorts on this.
Oh for sure. I don't play Overwatch because I don't play FPS but I will say that they totally nailed the character diversity. There is diversity from both the male and female characters, big and small, young and old, they've got a little bit of everything.
Very nice to have women talking about this topic.
They were a delight to listen to :)
Ehrgeiz is pronounced air-guytz btw. At least that's how it's pronounced in it's native tongue of German lol.
edit: best female fighting game character just got announced for SFV and it's Akira Kazama !
I dunno if it was mentioned. But when I saw King in CVS2 for the first time, her design blew me away and I've loved her ever since.
I'm still bothered that Nina looks like she could be steve's sister while she still in fact steve's mother (just like JC and Michelle in tag 2😅.
I knowshe went into cryo sleep with anna but come on we grew up with her let her grow up with us all who play tekken since tekken 1😓
Exactly. Let Nina and Anna age as well as Michelle and Jun. Older women can still be sexy and fun. The ageism towards the female characters just needs to go now.
thank you cuddle i miss raven too.
Really appreciate these podcasts. I hope that the dev team is paying close attention to everything you and the community are discussing!
There are too many to pick, but if I had to go by series/game then at least it'd be;
- Helena (DoA)
- Eliza (Tekken)
- Ivy (Soul Calibur)
- Baiken (GG)
- Nine (BB)
- C.Viper or Poison (SF)
- Android 21 (DB)
- Samus (Smash)
Though sometimes they're not my main in those games - for instance in DoA it's Rachel or Bayman, in Smash I play more Ike, SF more Ken etc.
I actually like Master Raven and never played OG Raven. Moves are hella cool wish I tried Raven more but I usually mained Eddy
I love Helena Douglas , She's beautiful and gracful and her movement are perfect but ultimately she isn't and her life isn't.
Cuddle_core straight up spazzes when she is talking. She would be fun to be around.
She is certainly someone you can geek out to
What they said about Julia losing her identity and the dumb streamer thing: +99999999 AGREED!!!!!!
Asuka was my first main because of Fergus!
A critique I have of this convo is not acknowledging the context of the decisions y'all are critiquing. (Even though I more-or-less agree)
Ex. Yes, there is a patriarchy irl in which women are devalued as they age whereas men gain equity.
But if we gon take it there, I'd like to see folks come just as well-researched and prepared they do w the in-game topics. Cuz how many fgc heads don't even know what patriarchy is? Prolly a BUNCH right? Or else we wouldn't have had a 2020 full of assault allegations. So I feel like this is audience where it's important to make a super strong case about this kinda stuff. Or else they'll use it as confirmation bias the other way.
Cuz this felt short-sighted. Like cherrypicking. I haven't read all the comments, but I can already guess it's a bunch of either
A.Tekken replaces men and women. Men w women. Etc.
And/or
B. They don't age anybody except Heihachi. Paul, Lei, Law, Bruce, all look 30-sum in their 60s
Well i do like the fact that julia became Jaycee because she was falling in for an injured wrestler in tag 2 but at the same time that wrestler could've come to tekken 7 and become the new rival of the kjngs and marduck😁
See that would've been cool and would make more sense for the unnamed wrestler to be the new rival for the Kings & Marduk as opposed to Julia who had nothing to do with wrestling and felt forced.
My top female fighter in fighting games are Chun Li, Sara From Virtual Fighter, Jun Kazama, Kazumi from dead or alive, Sonya Blade
Favorite female has to be Vanessa from VF4.
Vanessa (KoF) is one of my favorite fighting game characters because she's a butch, bareknuckle boxer, but they never carry that to its full potential....she's always just femme enough, just sexy enough to avoid becoming the lesbian icon she was born to be.
Nina needs a hook hand. Julia needs direction. Leo needs both male and female swimsuit options.
Lets have a grandma black belt judo grappler. The eastern version of king but with judo.
I'd love that tbh, but make it Traditional Ju Jitsu since Paul is (apparently) meant to be the Judo rep.
Could do some interesting stuff by having a character focus less on combos and nasty CH throws and other throws leading to strong oki or disgusting frame advantage. Have it have brutal animations and a generally very grounded character compared to the acrobatics and stuff of the rest of the female cast.
@@Roflo13east interesting point but I feel Paul has more karate base moves. The are like over 30 different throws in judo so that's why I said grappling judo.
Apparently 75 😂
My first memory of playing fighting games was Tekken Goding Anna Williams on PCSX2 on my computer that didn't had dedicated GPU, so I did it at around 18-21FPS. Took 2 months to do so. XD
We have 3 mishimas that all have unique moves and style. Not sure why they can't do that with Christie and Raven/Master Raven
The only hope for Christie is for her to somehow be friends with Katarina (Kat would need to be removed from the game) and she inherits Kats moves and retains some Capoeira moves as well and become cancerously unique.
Honestly I don't see Christie coming in. Katarina literally looks like Christie only with sunglasses and a more sexualized outfit. The way I see it, either Christie comes in (which I doubt she will) or in Tekken 8, Katarina gets dropped and they bring Christie back or vice versa.
Annas Zebra prink costume was everything!!! 🥵💕
@That Blasted Salami gon was a manga series created by Musashi Tanaka it was published by kondansha.
Josie and katarina 💓💓
Katarina's timestamp is incorrect :(
Edit: It's fixed now, thank you :-)
Thanks for letting me know
I play master raven but i feel g raven represents my soul way more hope hes back someday.
IMO any character derived from another character is almost always not good,not only because it is lazy, but also because the only way they are known is from the original character and how they compare to the original. Batgirl is batman's love interest and largely the same as him. Supergirl is superman's relative (i guess?) and is largely the same as superman. She hulk defining characteristic is that she is better than hulk. The entire young generation cast of boruto is overshadowed by their parents, and so on. The only exception i know is miles morales, but even miles need an exceptionally successful movie to make himself distinctive.
Lili's fighting style looks like Fencing and Ballroom dancing to me....Kind of like how Alisa looks to be Ice Skating and Chloe does Break Dancing....If I'm making sense
Lili does gymnastics too, it seems.
I love chloe shes my main character and i understand that her fighting is like her putting on a show but i really do wish that her outros at the least were like her story outro where she's like brutal
Glad to see I'm not the only one that wants to see more of Chloe's brutal side
I Love Josie 😥😥😥😥
I end up picking females because they usually have the tools I'm looking for. E.G. Nimble and can get out of jams. Also, They're easy on the eyes so it's win win
wavedash 17 still not up cause y'all lost the footage?
Favorite female fighting character for me is Sion from Melty Blood or Eltnum from UNIST. She's hella cool.
It's a bit odd that Tekken's female characters feel so generic for the most part, considering how their playstyles are varied and unique. They just didn't bother to change looks and add depth to personalities as much as other series such as Street Fighter. By 3rd Strike we already had Chun-Li, Cammy, Makoto, Sakura, Rose, Karin, Ibuki... they have a fair share of similarities with some aspects but it's very hard, if not impossible, to pinpoint a singular characteristic all of those characters have, besides being female. But when it comes to Tekken things feel less varied.
Young, it's that they're all young, they're always young! Or if they're old they're time-ghosts so they can be young-looking
@@JoshTrevett No way, if you didn't their age you couldn't look at Anna and Nina and say they're under 30, it would be a struggle to say that in any Tekken game!
You're able to pinpoint differences easier in SF because the game can incorperate weird/unatural moves but Tekken is way more grounded to real life (forgetting about the juggles).
@@welsh_steel2285 It isn't necessarily rooted on gameplay by itself, but mostly personality and appearance. Gameplay is a huge part of it, don't get me wrong, but not everything.
Also, you can be expressive with a series more rooted in reality, because people are different. And for a good example, take the Mishimas. Every single one of them fights using the Mishima style of karate, but each and every one of them has a differing playstyle. Every single one of them is a dude that can be viewed as evil by all of society but they all have different motives, different goals and different personalities.
@@welsh_steel2285 does anna look 41 to you dude
Josie... chief called, he said you ain't it
The point these guys are missing is Japanese fighting games are not trying to be real, they are trying to be an escape from reality. You can say the same about most of the male cast who look like bodybuilders and basically have the same body type except noctis and bob. On the other hand American fighting games like mortal kombat want their characters to look real. I get what you guys are saying but the fans and players should never force developers at least on a cosmetic and character design sense cuz that's just no different from censorship and is taking away from the developers' creative freedom. Btw Nina's VA sounds badass and is perfect for her imo, she also voiced Motoko Kusanagi from ghost in the shell and various other popular characters in anime.
Except no not really. Even before Bob was introduced in the game, the male characters were still fairly diverse. You had the lean and sprinty body type like Marshall Law and Lee Chaolan to more your more traditional athletic guys like Jin, Hwoarang, Baek, and then you had the bigger guys like King, Armor King, and Marduk. And then of course the ages vary from someone young like Jin to old like Wang.
And who says that they are trying to force the developers to change? They're just making suggestions and ideas, not forcing anyone to do anything. It's not wrong to think that wanting to see some diversity with the female characters would be interesting to see to help break up the monotony of things.
As a gay man, I also tend to gravitate naturally towards badass women in fighting games for some reason.
Yes, I bought Anna day 1.
It's rather that or rippling, buff, tall huge men lol I rarely play one or the other. I hate hard grapplers though so my big muscle man pool is pretty limited in fighting games.
However, in Tekken, Hwoarang stood out to me from gameplay alone so I guess Tekken became the exception.
Bruh as a straight man, I tend to gravitate naturally to badass women. 👊
@@Esthoneal
It's interesting.
Straight men obviously tend to go to women because they're into that, but a lot of straight men play male characters for the power fantasy element, or to uphold masculinity in some way.
I've known many straight men who pick girls so they can see things they like when they play, and frankly, I do the same with guys lol but I have this weird fascination with women who own up to their badassery, like Anna does.
@@somethingsomething9006 Lol I used to main Alisa but later switched to Duk and it little to do with the fact that he is huge lol. Its cause he is fun to play
I humbly invite you to doa (but I suggest doa5
@@Esthoneal
I really want to get into Marduk eventually, he ticks off all the boxes for me (besides the fact that I'm not into absolute psychopath lol)
Which of the new Tekken 7 characters, do you see returning for Tekken 8?
Katarina should have been French being a savage user.
Trust me, Leo will be a she in T8, and will revert back to a he in T9.
Leo has never been a she or a he
Chelle Johnson Leo is a he in T7.
Take them out of the game. Nobody plays leo
My favorite fighter girl is Juri, she taekwando, i main hwo
Cool!
Will there ever be a cast of all manji-kind?
Where can I see the redesign from Honey?
Video soon!
As a lili main im hurt but i agree and its so confusing lmao
I love how the main reason why Panda doesn't want to date Kuma is because she's too old for him😂😂
Frame best girl
Josie is sooooo blaaaaannndddd.... I disown her as her fellow countryman. I do enjoy playing her from time to time, but not watching the intros and outros, its obnoxious
I find her crying to be annoying
but she's fun to play overall
Give us Bruce!
The outros when she's like "im still ready to fight" is what makes me love her when shes like super confident and kick ass even if i don't actually play her
her personality is not convincing but she has some great moves like uf 3+4 or the butterfly kick (uf3). its unfortunate that she is railroaded into the mix up gameplay. it makes her weak in tournament where people have defense.
Was WD17 unrecoverable?
Unfortunately not
@@ThatBlastedSalami Dang :(
As a waifu player it's really hard to pick my favorite, but Ryougi Shiki is my favourite character ever so since she's in Melty Blood, it's her. It's funny that my characters are Shiki, Ayane, Sakura and Asuka, all mid-tier asian tomboys focused on controlling space.
Aside from the costume (not that anyone wears that kind of outfit, but it's a good representation of the flag) Josie doesnt represent Philippines at all :lol:
Her accent sounds very american. Her name is literally just a womanized version of Jose Rizal's name. She 's an escrimador which is a martial art that uses a lot of hand parries , like 90% hand parries which was not utilized at all.
Josie feels like a whatever, to me as a filipino at least.
Here's the video Arya mentions at 25:55 in case anyone's interested: ua-cam.com/video/_jtIThgGcnA/v-deo.html