One of my fellow student leaders, whom I respect greatly, is a Calvinist, and we all have many conversations with him about understanding each other. We finally got the conversation boiled down to our differences in what we believe the character of God is. I would have no problem with it if they simply defined the 'elect' as someone who will come to know Christ at some point in their life. God would know whether they did or not before time even began, but he is an observer in that window. Where we disagreed was when he said that God intentionally closed the hearts of everyone except the elect, barring them from salvation, for reasons I didn't quite understand. However, at the end of it all, if we both believe in the two greatest commandments, and the great commission, then we're on the same team.
+Brady B "Make your calling and election sure" was always the verse that blew my mind on this point. It's right there. Free will and election in the same verse.
+The Ten Minute Bible Hour Agreed, it is a defining moment in the history of the church and one that "churches" try to get away from in the name of tradition. Jesus Christ + Grace, that's it! Thanks for the awesome video!
Just found your channel, and I am catching up. One thing I really appreciate from the passage is that neither Peter nor Paul & Barnabas argue based on what they think or what they prefer. They both focus on what God is doing. Lots of bad fights can be avoided by simply focusing on God and His plan.
For me, this brings up a discussion I have often with a few people in Church. I was a Deacon for many years and my fellows Deacons on the board suggested that we all Dress "Nice" when serving communion. Now, my church is an urban church and we get all kinds of people from all kinds of backgrounds, and never once has there been a dress code or concept of one in church... and yet I was told this is what I should do. No doubt, some see NOT dressing up as a sign of disrespect, but I see such an accusation as one similar to the concept of the "White Washed Tombs" Jesus spoke of to the Pharises. I guess on principle (or because I'm stubborn) I never did dress differently for serving communion, and no one ever really penalized me or brought it up as a requirement, but this episode reminded me of this situation where Deacons of the church argued, but we argued well... and in the end, deemed this to be something of "non-importance", when the item of true importance, Communion, was being carried out respectfully and solemnly in our hearts. Good Episode, I like that you bring up this point of connecting where it matters and agreeing to get along in the places where it doesn't. We may not agree on what should be worn in Church on Sunday, but we both still agree that we should come on Sunday to Worship God... and that we should be wearing clothes while we do so.
right?!!!! "fight WELL." discussions can be both difficult AND productive. It's not fun (for most people) to disagree or argue. Let's just say that we've arrived at different places at this point in time. Maybe we will agree on it later but let's just move on and do what we agree God has called us to do. :) great points!
I'm sorry if I've missed you answering this somewhere else, but have you thought about beginning a Patreon for your channel? I'd totally be down to supporting you via another platform.
+Kenneth Baldwin Thanks for thinking of it Kenneth. That's something I need to get cracking on soon. So far I've paid for all this out of the household budget, and it's probably time to try to move on from that.
So what about Jesus's return that has already happened? (70 AD) I don't argue but give scriptures to offset what it should have looked like and didn't. I get back repeats of scriptures that try to support it was imminent at the time Revelation was written, which "was fulfilled at that time". Then comes their "proof" of that being late 60's AD. I am at a loss and fear it will mislead real seekers from finding Jesus. I consider it false teaching but do not want to lose the opportunity of helping the seekers find the way to a living Lord that will come again, and help them avoid a real judgement that did not happen in 70 AD. Am I wrong to stay in the fight?
+Janet Ely I think arguing your biblical case is always a reasonable thing to do, and some stuff is worth dividing over. But I suppose whether this is that kind of thing is a matter of conscience for you.
Hey man, don't knock us hermits. I keep trying to create a hermit group so that we can explain to people the benefits of being a hermit. Unfortunately, no one ever comes to the meeting. Well, so I hear, I never go to them either. What? There may be people there. :) Yea, the long lost art of argument seems to be, well, lost. I don't get it. It seem like there are people who will do anything to avoid arguing. But then there are people who just want to argue, calling people names, flinging insults, and doing anything but actually talking about the problem. And both ways have the exact same result. Concerning conflict, Matt, I think your doll (I can never remember who he is) has a drinking problem. He's head first in a beer mug. You may need to intervene. :)
I can't agree more people don't discuss/argue about anything substantial. In fact most people are told to avoid political and religious discussions. If they to wade into a discussion it's not a discussion it's a spewing of "facts" or what they hear on Tv/Radio/Podcast and that's what they stick through. I am not necessarily saying folks should change their convictions but should be able to discuss the without feeling threatened. These types of discussions can be mentally stimulating and really strengthen someone's convictions or lead people to new ones.
+Michael Thomas Yea, it's like people want to believe what they want to believe. Regardless of facts. And whenever someone points something out that may not align perfectly with their belief, they lash out instead of learning.
this is a really hot topic in churches near me right now! how church has to be like, what to do and what not to. and that even them in biblical times had these issues and even worse i'd say, and that they also just needed to make sure what the center of christianity was, is really impressive to me! god's word does really have an answer for all of our issues and problems. even in church and even problems under christians. i am impressed. also great video. i can really use your videos right now!
Dig it man! I've been caught up in a couple of church splits due to disagreements. This very neatly sums up some good rules to keeping that from happening. If only we could truly believe the best in each other and agree to do the important things in spite of our disagreements, we would get more actual important stuff accomplished. Not to mention that we would be a stark contrast to pretty much everything "newsworthy" happening. Maybe if people actually knew us by our love, they might actually be interested in hearing what we have to say.
+Michael David Roth Dude, my husband and I own a ministry focused design build firm. Churches split over carpet colors. seriously! it's unreal. Luckily, we haven't seen it happen in any of our Projects. Thank the Lord!! haha! But people can get nuts. In all things, we have to keep the spirit of UNITY. Such an easy concept but really difficult when feelings start getting hurt and egos get trampled on, right? I really do pray that both non-believers and believers know me by my love and not by my love of being "right". I want that for the body of Christ :)
Obedience = salvation was never God's plan. But in the beginning of this chapter that's what these Christians were pushing on new converts. And that's what Yeshua Jesus was rebuking the Pharisees often for. You are right to mention their added traditions and customs. The Talmud were man made laws trying to explain YHWHs Law. It's like bible commentary. That's helpful but the problem was they made the man made laws equal or higher than YHWHs Law. Deuteronomy says you not add nor subtract from YHWHs Word. It was a big yoke the Pharisees put on the people for salvation and being right with YHWH. Was James saying the New converts didn't have to listen to Moses? The issue was how to be saved, not how to live after you're saved as a grateful response to your free grace salvation from Yeshua. Acts 6 and 21 have false witnesses accusing Peter and Paul of preaching against Moses. If they are FALSE witnesses then the apostles were teaching Moses. You kind of skimmed over verse 21. You hear Moses, the Torah, YHWHs instructions, being preached in the synagogue on the Sabbath. YHWHs instructions hang on 2 things. Love God and love your neighbor. It's all about how we should live in this world, not about how to get saved. We are fishers of men. We catch the fish and give them to Yeshua to clean. You don't tell someone to clean up their life before you invite them to church. You bring them to church, you give them Bible studies to hear the Word and hear what is bad and good and how to live like Yeshua. The lists of donts in verse 20 is the same in 29. But you didn't mention that in your next video. They had the council meeting and then they wrote a letter to Antioch about what was discussed at the meeting. Yes these 4 things were cultural. They had do with pagan worship practices. New converts didn't have to through out their heritage but their religious heritage. My heritage is pure Dutch. And was raised Calvinist Reform. I'm very proud of my Dutchness. I'm a huge supporter of the Nederlands soccer team and will root for them over the USA team. But one thing Dutch I denounced was Calvinism doctrine (even though John Calvin was actually French) If these people would have brought idol meat and fornication into the fellowship and worship gatherings and God forbid the synagogue they would cause discord. If you want to do that at home that's between you and God. And God will deal with you their and change your habits. But don't bring it to fellowships and lead people astray possibly. In Deuteronomy 12 YHWH says to not take something pagan and use it to worship Him. It can lead to idol worship. This list is not just cultural, it's sin. You supposedly drank blood, why did you say that was ok but I'd assume you would say sexual immortality is wrong. Just because a butcher said it's healthy doesn't make it so. YHWH is our Creator. He made our bodies and the molecular structure of blood and animal muscle. His ways are higher than mine. If He said no to something I'm going to listen because He knows best. Like as a child we listened to our parents because they had more knowledge than us.
This is awesome
One of my fellow student leaders, whom I respect greatly, is a Calvinist, and we all have many conversations with him about understanding each other.
We finally got the conversation boiled down to our differences in what we believe the character of God is. I would have no problem with it if they simply defined the 'elect' as someone who will come to know Christ at some point in their life. God would know whether they did or not before time even began, but he is an observer in that window. Where we disagreed was when he said that God intentionally closed the hearts of everyone except the elect, barring them from salvation, for reasons I didn't quite understand.
However, at the end of it all, if we both believe in the two greatest commandments, and the great commission, then we're on the same team.
+Brady B "Make your calling and election sure" was always the verse that blew my mind on this point. It's right there. Free will and election in the same verse.
Peter and the Epic Mic Drop! Boom Grace!
+Robert Cochran I liked that moment. We owe him.
+The Ten Minute Bible Hour Agreed, it is a defining moment in the history of the church and one that "churches" try to get away from in the name of tradition. Jesus Christ + Grace, that's it! Thanks for the awesome video!
Just found your channel, and I am catching up. One thing I really appreciate from the passage is that neither Peter nor Paul & Barnabas argue based on what they think or what they prefer. They both focus on what God is doing. Lots of bad fights can be avoided by simply focusing on God and His plan.
"BLOW IT THE HECK UP!" Great application!
For me, this brings up a discussion I have often with a few people in Church. I was a Deacon for many years and my fellows Deacons on the board suggested that we all Dress "Nice" when serving communion. Now, my church is an urban church and we get all kinds of people from all kinds of backgrounds, and never once has there been a dress code or concept of one in church... and yet I was told this is what I should do. No doubt, some see NOT dressing up as a sign of disrespect, but I see such an accusation as one similar to the concept of the "White Washed Tombs" Jesus spoke of to the Pharises.
I guess on principle (or because I'm stubborn) I never did dress differently for serving communion, and no one ever really penalized me or brought it up as a requirement, but this episode reminded me of this situation where Deacons of the church argued, but we argued well... and in the end, deemed this to be something of "non-importance", when the item of true importance, Communion, was being carried out respectfully and solemnly in our hearts.
Good Episode, I like that you bring up this point of connecting where it matters and agreeing to get along in the places where it doesn't. We may not agree on what should be worn in Church on Sunday, but we both still agree that we should come on Sunday to Worship God... and that we should be wearing clothes while we do so.
right?!!!! "fight WELL." discussions can be both difficult AND productive. It's not fun (for most people) to disagree or argue. Let's just say that we've arrived at different places at this point in time. Maybe we will agree on it later but let's just move on and do what we agree God has called us to do. :) great points!
I'm sorry if I've missed you answering this somewhere else, but have you thought about beginning a Patreon for your channel? I'd totally be down to supporting you via another platform.
+Kenneth Baldwin Thanks for thinking of it Kenneth. That's something I need to get cracking on soon. So far I've paid for all this out of the household budget, and it's probably time to try to move on from that.
Awesome. I'm sure there are plenty of other people interested in supporting a TMBH Patreon as well.
So what about Jesus's return that has already happened? (70 AD) I don't argue but give scriptures to offset what it should have looked like and didn't. I get back repeats of scriptures that try to support it was imminent at the time Revelation was written, which "was fulfilled at that time". Then comes their "proof" of that being late 60's AD. I am at a loss and fear it will mislead real seekers from finding Jesus. I consider it false teaching but do not want to lose the opportunity of helping the seekers find the way to a living Lord that will come again, and help them avoid a real judgement that did not happen in 70 AD. Am I wrong to stay in the fight?
+Janet Ely I think arguing your biblical case is always a reasonable thing to do, and some stuff is worth dividing over. But I suppose whether this is that kind of thing is a matter of conscience for you.
Thanks!
Hey man, don't knock us hermits. I keep trying to create a hermit group so that we can explain to people the benefits of being a hermit. Unfortunately, no one ever comes to the meeting. Well, so I hear, I never go to them either. What? There may be people there. :)
Yea, the long lost art of argument seems to be, well, lost. I don't get it. It seem like there are people who will do anything to avoid arguing. But then there are people who just want to argue, calling people names, flinging insults, and doing anything but actually talking about the problem. And both ways have the exact same result.
Concerning conflict, Matt, I think your doll (I can never remember who he is) has a drinking problem. He's head first in a beer mug. You may need to intervene. :)
I can't agree more people don't discuss/argue about anything substantial. In fact most people are told to avoid political and religious discussions. If they to wade into a discussion it's not a discussion it's a spewing of "facts" or what they hear on Tv/Radio/Podcast and that's what they stick through. I am not necessarily saying folks should change their convictions but should be able to discuss the without feeling threatened. These types of discussions can be mentally stimulating and really strengthen someone's convictions or lead people to new ones.
+Michael Thomas Yea, it's like people want to believe what they want to believe. Regardless of facts. And whenever someone points something out that may not align perfectly with their belief, they lash out instead of learning.
this is a really hot topic in churches near me right now! how church has to be like, what to do and what not to.
and that even them in biblical times had these issues and even worse i'd say, and that they also just needed to make sure what the center of christianity was, is really impressive to me! god's word does really have an answer for all of our issues and problems. even in church and even problems under christians. i am impressed.
also great video. i can really use your videos right now!
There is a lady with a blog, called, the Worst Missionary Ever. I see a trend here. : )
Dig it man! I've been caught up in a couple of church splits due to disagreements. This very neatly sums up some good rules to keeping that from happening. If only we could truly believe the best in each other and agree to do the important things in spite of our disagreements, we would get more actual important stuff accomplished. Not to mention that we would be a stark contrast to pretty much everything "newsworthy" happening. Maybe if people actually knew us by our love, they might actually be interested in hearing what we have to say.
+Michael David Roth Dude, my husband and I own a ministry focused design build firm. Churches split over carpet colors. seriously! it's unreal. Luckily, we haven't seen it happen in any of our Projects. Thank the Lord!! haha! But people can get nuts. In all things, we have to keep the spirit of UNITY. Such an easy concept but really difficult when feelings start getting hurt and egos get trampled on, right? I really do pray that both non-believers and believers know me by my love and not by my love of being "right". I want that for the body of Christ :)
Obedience = salvation was never God's plan.
But in the beginning of this chapter that's what these Christians were pushing on new converts. And that's what Yeshua Jesus was rebuking the Pharisees often for.
You are right to mention their added traditions and customs.
The Talmud were man made laws trying to explain YHWHs Law. It's like bible commentary. That's helpful but the problem was they made the man made laws equal or higher than YHWHs Law. Deuteronomy says you not add nor subtract from YHWHs Word.
It was a big yoke the Pharisees put on the people for salvation and being right with YHWH.
Was James saying the New converts didn't have to listen to Moses?
The issue was how to be saved, not how to live after you're saved as a grateful response to your free grace salvation from Yeshua.
Acts 6 and 21 have false witnesses accusing Peter and Paul of preaching against Moses. If they are FALSE witnesses then the apostles were teaching Moses.
You kind of skimmed over verse 21. You hear Moses, the Torah, YHWHs instructions, being preached in the synagogue on the Sabbath.
YHWHs instructions hang on 2 things. Love God and love your neighbor. It's all about how we should live in this world, not about how to get saved.
We are fishers of men.
We catch the fish and give them to Yeshua to clean.
You don't tell someone to clean up their life before you invite them to church. You bring them to church, you give them Bible studies to hear the Word and hear what is bad and good and how to live like Yeshua.
The lists of donts in verse 20 is the same in 29. But you didn't mention that in your next video.
They had the council meeting and then they wrote a letter to Antioch about what was discussed at the meeting.
Yes these 4 things were cultural. They had do with pagan worship practices. New converts didn't have to through out their heritage but their religious heritage.
My heritage is pure Dutch. And was raised Calvinist Reform.
I'm very proud of my Dutchness. I'm a huge supporter of the Nederlands soccer team and will root for them over the USA team.
But one thing Dutch I denounced was Calvinism doctrine (even though John Calvin was actually French)
If these people would have brought idol meat and fornication into the fellowship and worship gatherings and God forbid the synagogue they would cause discord. If you want to do that at home that's between you and God. And God will deal with you their and change your habits.
But don't bring it to fellowships and lead people astray possibly.
In Deuteronomy 12 YHWH says to not take something pagan and use it to worship Him.
It can lead to idol worship.
This list is not just cultural, it's sin.
You supposedly drank blood, why did you say that was ok but I'd assume you would say sexual immortality is wrong.
Just because a butcher said it's healthy doesn't make it so.
YHWH is our Creator. He made our bodies and the molecular structure of blood and animal muscle. His ways are higher than mine.
If He said no to something I'm going to listen because He knows best. Like as a child we listened to our parents because they had more knowledge than us.