Thanks for this. I've often wondered how hill forts, etc, as defencive as they are, survived with no obvious water sources. This is never addressed in the documentaries on them. Contour ponds or swales would make perfect sense.
Thank you for watching-I am sure the dwellers of Hillforts had many practical solutions to everyday life that now are sadly lost to time -As you correctly state a topic that is never addressed
I grew up close to old sarum, in the fifties, to me total paradise,it was all cowboys,wild west,and aeroplanes,and pennies for the sweetshop in Castle Rd. I was too young for the history in those days,and yet somhow aware of its presence. Nowadays the history of human survival is a huge area of interest to me,and as a member of a local history group,plus two of my sons running a survival. Business,it is beginning to fill my life,lucky old me,,,,and thankyou for your contribution.
Thank you for your great comment-I just love the history of Hillforts, truth be told we know very little about their actual lives on the top of hills-Thank you for watching
I agree-It looks like the Iron Age communities knew far much more than they were given credit for-Thank you for watching my small adventure in history Penny
Shouldn't be too difficult to see if there's still any sign of clay or even stone in those features. Without a lining on chalk there certainly wouldn't be any water. The water factor adds to the argument that at least the higher forts were probably only intended for substantial occupation in time of trouble.
That smelly old ex pond what a rotter, oh wait when you said ponds in disrepute you meant to say disrepair, OK the good old ponds are nice then, good show I enjoyed watching this👍
Interesting video, thanks James. I have pinned to "Featured" in the UK Hillforts group. I had a big fall on wet grass and broke my knee- I know what you mean when you said this in your video.
Thank you Hedley a great subject to think abou and investigate against Lidar maps -Even more admiration for Bronze Age Hillfort dwellers after this -Thank you my friend
Hello James, just subscribed, I found you whilst looking for similar subject matter. My local hill fort, Penycloddiau in the Clwydians, has a permanent pool at the summit to this day. It only dries up in the hottest summers. My own thoughts were that it was used mainly for livestock and that the springs that are to be found just outside the earthworks might have been used for drinking etc. It's difficult to know exactly what resources were available at the time, as we know that even geology can change over time. Thanks to you I can now investigate with different eyes and maybe find further evidence. We have quite a number of hill forts, barrows and mounds locally and the landscape and resources tell a story too. I'll be looking through your back catalog for more. Thank you for your content, top notch. 🧔 👍
Really interesting James, thanks for that. Looking at the Lidar I have also wondered what the very round object next to Port Way lane is (///showcases.according.sand) and then further to the west, the disturbances that lidar shows there? Could these show other water collection areas?
Hi James, Excellent video, a great bit of investigation confirmed by the field trip, well done. Its completely logical too, as you say, it must have been the very first thing they did, although they must have complemented that by bringing up some water to start with. Perhaps the landscape was different too with more trees and bushes aiding capture of the moisture. Brings me back to camping where you would wake up and everything would be covered in dew. With a bit of effort this can be captured. In fact not so long again I saw a report on how they were capturing water high up in the Andes on a series of nets each one being funneled into irrigation channels to take the water further down the mountain side. Of course there is another way to store water and that is as snow and ice. Seems out of the question but it is a practise that only died out in the 20th century down in the mountains of southern Spain. You will find snow holes all over the mountains which was brought down by pack horse. I'm sure they would have done the same on these hillforts when it snowed. Great video, very enjoyable to watch. All the best!!
So true David I just had to compare possibilities on my local Hillfort as this seems to be a subject that is relatively unknown, as springs were just too far away if you were living on a Hillfort and the logistics are immense -Thank you once again for watching my small adventure in history and your thought provoking comment-James
Thanks for this interesting video. I live near Salisbury and have pondered how the Normans coped for water at Old Sarum as there must have been quite a sizeable population when they took up residence. I assumed wells but hadn't considered dew ponds. Did you notice if the vegetation was different in the probable ponds to the surrounding area?
Good comment-Considering that these may date back 2,000 years it is quite difficult to determine , also any clay linings of possible ponds have failed, then erosion. The list goes on ? In summary this is an area of Hillfort life we know very little of -Thank you John for watching my small adventure in history
James, Had wondered if the Water Storage would be lined to prevent the Land itself swallowing the Water content? Tile or Stone surface? Stone lining found all over Scotland in similar Water Storage.
Yes in our area would have been clay lined with clay this over periods of time is damaged by animal grazing ,leading to pond failure -Thank you for your interesting comment and watching my small adventure in history !
I remember watching Time Team when they were at Wittenham Clumps in Oxfordshire. It’s only a couple of miles from where I live. Anyway the Clumps are a couple of miles off The Ridgeway, and a mile or so from the Thames, with no obvious water source. I think they found habitation from Bronze through to Roman times, so either someone was carrying water, or they dug wells. There are few ponds still up there though, the sheep still use them.
Maori people of NZ had the same problem. In some cases chivalrous besieging attackers would permit water parties to collect water and continue to fight on.
Dewponds - yes, but I conjecture that these places would be too inconvenient as permanent residences and were a response to raiding parties after livestock. The alarm being raised, or it being the season to expect them, the livestock would be penned in the fort to defend them and supploed with hay and - as you say - water. Now seiges are hard things to undertake and the raiders would not have the supplies for it from an emptied landscape and would have given up quickly. Then you all go back to the farm. Also you can't go raiding and protect your own herds at the same time, so these would always have been brief affairs, I suppose.
Thank you-Opens up conversation and thought on these areas, bear in mind post Iron Age the Romans also occupied these areas until an area was safe for them to occupy the lower levels . Strategies of occupation against survival is an enormous issue in the provision of essentials for life-Thank you for watching and your interesting comment
When looking at an aerial view of a hillfort recently (I forget which one) there seemed to be several "chambers" near what I think was the main entrance. There were several roughly rectangular "rooms" off to one side, with their long sides adjacent - maybe 4 IIRC. At the time I wondered what they were and thought perhaps storage of some sort. After watching this, I'm wondering if they were water storage pits, separated either for different uses or maybe so that if one had an issue - wall leak or contamination - it wouldn't affect the whole supply.
A fantastic observation I will have to look again , you may be totally accurate I have no real idea . A very thought provoking subject I had so much fun trying to evaluate this Lidar against area against possibilities-Thank you for watching my small adventure in history
I always assumed they sent the women and girls down with buckets but I like your theory. Much more practical for livestock especially, even if the hillforts were only occupied on a temporary basis.
Yes it is just my theory based against Lidar maps and the landscape-I am pleased you enjoyed this -I think if someone had to walk down 500ft then walk half a mile then back up 500ft they would only be able to do it once or twice a day-Then you take 1ltr of water is 1kg in weight and the logistics become unfeasible -Great to talk and think about this-Thank you for watching my small adventure in history
@@jameswalksinhistory3848 The logistics aren’t impossible if the water is only for human consumption. Yes it would be hard work and time consuming, think of African girls with jarson their heads left with nontime to go to school. When I was digging on the excavation at West Stow our only water supply was an outside pump at a cottage about a mile away. We sent a party down each evening with jerry cans and a wheelbarrow. This provided enough water for about 25 people for drinking and cooking. However I agree with your idea, especially looking at the Lidar. I agree that the logistics would be impossible if there were livestock penned there and couldn’t drive them to water. Without a water stirage capacity, In a hostile situation all the enemy would need to do is sit at the bottom of the hill and wait for everyone to get thirsty. Dewponds seem an excellent solution, especially as we know they were used later on. A trial trench or a set of boreholes in the hollows you’ve identified might produce some definite evidence.
Very interesting. My nearest hillfort is Bredon Hill and I've always wondered about this. There are surrounding ponds and springs but it would be a considerable walk to fetch a quantity of water. I've thought that collecting water would be children's or women's work aided by slaves using waterproof pottery. Thanks
Interesting. At Crickley Hill in Gloucestershire we found no depends. The ramparts were basically drystone walling with rubble infill so there was no way water would have drained off them into anything. Those dewponds look rather like quarry pits to me. I'm not saying they couldn't have been both though
Thank you for watching Malc -. If you look at the second Lidar image with possible ponds marked by the 3 X symbols ponds seem more likely , the others may be just quarry pits. Thank you for watching-In summary a great subject that gets us all thinking ⭐
The gulf stream is more a consequence of the same effect. If air out water moves north in the Northern hemisphere, because the earth is rotating, it starts to turn to the east. This is called the coriolis effect. This means that the gulf stream bends across the Atlantic and hits us, and creates the jet streams which drags weather systems across the Atlantic, mostly to the north of us creating Westerly and south westerly winds as the low pressure cyclones go north of us.
I suspect hillforts/mounds etc tapped underground water sources...and if they can access below ground, then the underground cave system might have given them an exit route/hiding place if needed. Dew ponds for animals and general human use, springs for human. I think earthmounfs were extraordinary in eays we have yet to fully understand.
@@jameswalksinhistory3848 Yes, chalk downs and streams are very special things. Magical almost...and I think our ancestors knew things we don't. We rely on modern science to tell us about ancient history, and yet it still can't explain the pyramids in terms that make real sense. Same with megalithic monuments... How did we move stones weighing many tonnes? Maybe there was a time in the not so distant past, where gravity for certain objects was minimized, by electromagnetically charged atmospheric conditions? Andrew Hall spoke of indigenous Australians making weird cave paintings... which he said could have been copies of what was actually present in ancient skies during electromagnetic cosmic storms. I'm no scientist, but I believe there's much to be discovered.
So true Sandy-They become failed over time with livestock roaming into the ponds and holing the clay lining -Incredible to think that Iron Age people were harvesting water 2,000 years ago-Thank you for watching my friend
Derrr. They dug wells as they did with mott and baily castles. Wells dug in the motts. Dew ponds, yeah. But not very productive. Normally dug at the end of a field so that the ploughing horses could get a drink. Not really for people. Sandal Castle for example.
Thanks for this. I've often wondered how hill forts, etc, as defencive as they are, survived with no obvious water sources. This is never addressed in the documentaries on them. Contour ponds or swales would make perfect sense.
Thank you for watching-I am sure the dwellers of Hillforts had many practical solutions to everyday life that now are sadly lost to time -As you correctly state a topic that is never addressed
I grew up close to old sarum, in the fifties, to me total paradise,it was all cowboys,wild west,and aeroplanes,and pennies for the sweetshop in Castle Rd. I was too young for the history in those days,and yet somhow aware of its presence. Nowadays the history of human survival is a huge area of interest to me,and as a member of a local history group,plus two of my sons running a survival. Business,it is beginning to fill my life,lucky old me,,,,and thankyou for your contribution.
Great memories-Thank you for sharing and watching my small adventure in history
I was pondering this same question earlier today, especially as some hillforts are actually quite far from a natural watercourse. Brilliant video!
Thank you for your great comment-I just love the history of Hillforts, truth be told we know very little about their actual lives on the top of hills-Thank you for watching
Very interesting James. Always wonder about water sources at these places. These ponds make perfect sense. Thanks again for you education. 👍🏻
Thank you Watto -Always great to look and learn -Gosh I am sounding like an old comic title-Thank you for watching
Great info and excellent presentation. Thanks.
My pleasure I always find it interesting to visit areas againt information that is available-Thank you for watching my small adventure in history
Very interesting video James, thank you 👍
So nice of you-Thank you Sam ❤️👍
Thank you James for another interesting video. It does make you think how they cope for water. Thank you.
I agree-It looks like the Iron Age communities knew far much more than they were given credit for-Thank you for watching my small adventure in history Penny
Shouldn't be too difficult to see if there's still any sign of clay or even stone in those features. Without a lining on chalk there certainly wouldn't be any water.
The water factor adds to the argument that at least the higher forts were probably only intended for substantial occupation in time of trouble.
I agree with you totally -Food for the mind and great to walk around any Hillfort-Thank you for watching and your great comment
That smelly old ex pond what a rotter, oh wait when you said ponds in disrepute you meant to say disrepair, OK the good old ponds are nice then, good show I enjoyed watching this👍
Thank you for watching- I am pleased you enjoyed this
Interesting video, thanks James. I have pinned to "Featured" in the UK Hillforts group. I had a big fall on wet grass and broke my knee- I know what you mean when you said this in your video.
Thank you Hedley a great subject to think abou and investigate against Lidar maps -Even more admiration for Bronze Age Hillfort dwellers after this -Thank you my friend
Hello James, just subscribed, I found you whilst looking for similar subject matter.
My local hill fort, Penycloddiau in the Clwydians, has a permanent pool at the summit to this day. It only dries up in the hottest summers. My own thoughts were that it was used mainly for livestock and that the springs that are to be found just outside the earthworks might have been used for drinking etc. It's difficult to know exactly what resources were available at the time, as we know that even geology can change over time. Thanks to you I can now investigate with different eyes and maybe find further evidence.
We have quite a number of hill forts, barrows and mounds locally and the landscape and resources tell a story too.
I'll be looking through your back catalog for more.
Thank you for your content, top notch. 🧔 👍
Something i have never thought about, very intriguing i enjoyed this
Thank you -I was the same and the more you think about this the more complicated it becomes-Thank you for watching
@@jameswalksinhistory3848 yes true, i will be looking out for this next time i visit a Hillfort👍
Really interesting James, thanks for that. Looking at the Lidar I have also wondered what the very round object next to Port Way lane is (///showcases.according.sand) and then further to the west, the disturbances that lidar shows there? Could these show other water collection areas?
Thank you Robby lots of interesting features up on the Hillfort -Great to look at Lidar then to go feet on the ground-Thank you for watching 👍
This was very interesting and thanks.
My pleasure-Thank you for watching my small adventure in history
I love this
Thank you 😊⭐
very interesting man.. thanks
Glad you enjoyed it-Thank you Daniel
Hi James, Excellent video, a great bit of investigation confirmed by the field trip, well done.
Its completely logical too, as you say, it must have been the very first thing they did, although they must have complemented that by bringing up some water to start with. Perhaps the landscape was different too with more trees and bushes aiding capture of the moisture. Brings me back to camping where you would wake up and everything would be covered in dew. With a bit of effort this can be captured.
In fact not so long again I saw a report on how they were capturing water high up in the Andes on a series of nets each one being funneled into irrigation channels to take the water further down the mountain side.
Of course there is another way to store water and that is as snow and ice. Seems out of the question but it is a practise that only died out in the 20th century down in the mountains of southern Spain. You will find snow holes all over the mountains which was brought down by pack horse. I'm sure they would have done the same on these hillforts when it snowed.
Great video, very enjoyable to watch.
All the best!!
So true David I just had to compare possibilities on my local Hillfort as this seems to be a subject that is relatively unknown, as springs were just too far away if you were living on a Hillfort and the logistics are immense -Thank you once again for watching my small adventure in history and your thought provoking comment-James
Thanks for this interesting video. I live near Salisbury and have pondered how the Normans coped for water at Old Sarum as there must have been quite a sizeable population when they took up residence. I assumed wells but hadn't considered dew ponds. Did you notice if the vegetation was different in the probable ponds to the surrounding area?
Good comment-Considering that these may date back 2,000 years it is quite difficult to determine , also any clay linings of possible ponds have failed, then erosion. The list goes on ? In summary this is an area of Hillfort life we know very little of -Thank you John for watching my small adventure in history
James, Had wondered if the Water Storage would be lined to prevent the Land itself swallowing the Water content?
Tile or Stone surface? Stone lining found all over Scotland in similar Water Storage.
Yes in our area would have been clay lined with clay this over periods of time is damaged by animal grazing ,leading to pond failure -Thank you for your interesting comment and watching my small adventure in history !
@@jameswalksinhistory3848 Thanks James, appreciate the 'Clay Lined' response. Always a great watch - many thanks Sir.
I remember watching Time Team when they were at Wittenham Clumps in Oxfordshire. It’s only a couple of miles from where I live. Anyway the Clumps are a couple of miles off The Ridgeway, and a mile or so from the Thames, with no obvious water source. I think they found habitation from Bronze through to Roman times, so either someone was carrying water, or they dug wells. There are few ponds still up there though, the sheep still use them.
Interesting so many different ways of obtaining water-Thank you for watching Alun ⭐
@@jameswalksinhistory3848 thanks for filming!
@@alundavies1016 My pleasure thank you
Maori people of NZ had the same problem. In some cases chivalrous besieging attackers would permit water parties to collect water and continue to fight on.
Amazing the more you think about this you realize how inventive Iron Age people really were -Thank you for watching and your thought provoking comment
Dewponds - yes, but I conjecture that these places would be too inconvenient as permanent residences and were a response to raiding parties after livestock. The alarm being raised, or it being the season to expect them, the livestock would be penned in the fort to defend them and supploed with hay and - as you say - water. Now seiges are hard things to undertake and the raiders would not have the supplies for it from an emptied landscape and would have given up quickly. Then you all go back to the farm. Also you can't go raiding and protect your own herds at the same time, so these would always have been brief affairs, I suppose.
Thank you-Opens up conversation and thought on these areas, bear in mind post Iron Age the Romans also occupied these areas until an area was safe for them to occupy the lower levels . Strategies of occupation against survival is an enormous issue in the provision of essentials for life-Thank you for watching and your interesting comment
to my eye a lot of those do have a pondy feel and what you're saying does make sense. Can you get a few soil samples and test them for clay, cheers
Thank you for watching
When looking at an aerial view of a hillfort recently (I forget which one) there seemed to be several "chambers" near what I think was the main entrance. There were several roughly rectangular "rooms" off to one side, with their long sides adjacent - maybe 4 IIRC. At the time I wondered what they were and thought perhaps storage of some sort. After watching this, I'm wondering if they were water storage pits, separated either for different uses or maybe so that if one had an issue - wall leak or contamination - it wouldn't affect the whole supply.
A fantastic observation I will have to look again , you may be totally accurate I have no real idea . A very thought provoking subject I had so much fun trying to evaluate this Lidar against area against possibilities-Thank you for watching my small adventure in history
I always assumed they sent the women and girls down with buckets but I like your theory. Much more practical for livestock especially, even if the hillforts were only occupied on a temporary basis.
Yes it is just my theory based against Lidar maps and the landscape-I am pleased you enjoyed this -I think if someone had to walk down 500ft then walk half a mile then back up 500ft they would only be able to do it once or twice a day-Then you take 1ltr of water is 1kg in weight and the logistics become unfeasible -Great to talk and think about this-Thank you for watching my small adventure in history
@@jameswalksinhistory3848 The logistics aren’t impossible if the water is only for human consumption. Yes it would be hard work and time consuming, think of African girls with jarson their heads left with nontime to go to school. When I was digging on the excavation at West Stow our only water supply was an outside pump at a cottage about a mile away. We sent a party down each evening with jerry cans and a wheelbarrow. This provided enough water for about 25 people for drinking and cooking.
However I agree with your idea, especially looking at the Lidar. I agree that the logistics would be impossible if there were livestock penned there and couldn’t drive them to water. Without a water stirage capacity, In a hostile situation all the enemy would need to do is sit at the bottom of the hill and wait for everyone to get thirsty. Dewponds seem an excellent solution, especially as we know they were used later on. A trial trench or a set of boreholes in the hollows you’ve identified might produce some definite evidence.
Very interesting. My nearest hillfort is Bredon Hill and I've always wondered about this. There are surrounding ponds and springs but it would be a considerable walk to fetch a quantity of water. I've thought that collecting water would be children's or women's work aided by slaves using waterproof pottery.
Thanks
Thank you for watching my small adventure in history
Interesting. At Crickley Hill in Gloucestershire we found no depends. The ramparts were basically drystone walling with rubble infill so there was no way water would have drained off them into anything.
Those dewponds look rather like quarry pits to me. I'm not saying they couldn't have been both though
Bloody auto correct. Dewponds not depends
Thank you for watching Malc -. If you look at the second Lidar image with possible ponds marked by the 3 X symbols ponds seem more likely , the others may be just quarry pits. Thank you for watching-In summary a great subject that gets us all thinking ⭐
Tech that is not not always helpful 👍
Hello James, just posted a comment and due to my incompetence its ended up as a comment to someone elses post. Ho hum 😅 I'll try harder next time. 🧔 👍
No problems Bob I am sure it was a good one-Thank you for watching my small adventure in history
@@jameswalksinhistory3848 Just found lost comment. It's gone in as a reply to comment by @hedleythorne. My apologies. 🧔 👍
@@BobDouce No worries Bob 👍👍
I think most weather systems travel up the uk from the South West, because of the Gulf Stream.
Thank you-A valid point -We can only guess that Hillfort dwellers understanding of weather was good-Thank you for watching
The gulf stream is more a consequence of the same effect. If air out water moves north in the Northern hemisphere, because the earth is rotating, it starts to turn to the east. This is called the coriolis effect.
This means that the gulf stream bends across the Atlantic and hits us, and creates the jet streams which drags weather systems across the Atlantic, mostly to the north of us creating Westerly and south westerly winds as the low pressure cyclones go north of us.
@@daveansell1970 Thanks Dave - really interesting!
I suspect hillforts/mounds etc tapped underground water sources...and if they can access below ground, then the underground cave system might have given them an exit route/hiding place if needed.
Dew ponds for animals and general human use, springs for human.
I think earthmounfs were extraordinary in eays we have yet to fully understand.
Thanks for the video 👌🙏
A valid point for some areas -not in the chalk of Salisbury Plain -Thank you for your interesting comment and watching my small adventure in history
@@jameswalksinhistory3848 Yes, chalk downs and streams are very special things.
Magical almost...and I think our ancestors knew things we don't.
We rely on modern science to tell us about ancient history, and yet it still can't explain the pyramids in terms that make real sense.
Same with megalithic monuments...
How did we move stones weighing many tonnes?
Maybe there was a time in the not so distant past, where gravity for certain objects was minimized, by electromagnetically charged atmospheric conditions?
Andrew Hall spoke of indigenous Australians making weird cave paintings... which he said could have been copies of what was actually present in ancient skies during electromagnetic cosmic storms.
I'm no scientist, but I believe there's much to be discovered.
Chalk rock, very porous, don’t even get surface streams. Dewponds, clay lined, were used for stock up into the early 20th cent
@@h.bsfaithfulservant4136 I agree with you
I'm sure they would have used dew ponds, they must have been quite common place at one time.
So true Sandy-They become failed over time with livestock roaming into the ponds and holing the clay lining -Incredible to think that Iron Age people were harvesting water 2,000 years ago-Thank you for watching my friend
They could have used packhorses to carry the water.
I do not rule anything out -Thank you for watching and your great comment 👍
Britain?
Yes-Thank you for watching (Bratton Hillfort Wiltshire)
They would probably have wind mills to pump the water up. Why not
Mnnn- Anything before written history is possible
What would they used for pipes ?
Derrr. They dug wells as they did with mott and baily castles. Wells dug in the motts.
Dew ponds, yeah. But not very productive. Normally dug at the end of a field so that the ploughing horses could get a drink. Not really for people.
Sandal Castle for example.
Or so we thought-Thank you for your comment Fred this gets us all thinking -Also thank you for watching my small adventure in history