100% agree with Fremer about having the records to pull out vs streaming. After 60 years of collecting he is so spot on...Love everything my LPs do for me every day.
"These [Mobile Fidelity] double 45rpm single-step AAA boxed set pressings are as good as vinyl records get. If they don’t sound good on your system, it’s your system... You may question some of the musical choices, but there’s no doubt about the superior sound quality." - Michael Fremer
No offense but that’s how some people make money Norman. They use their smarts and knowledge to to get a resource that is undervalued and sell it to wealthy people like you who can afford every single item that is ever released.
@@zackamania6534 I don't agree with the flippers who use bots and buy out 100s of records and inflating them. However, buying records as an investment shouldn't be hated on. I'm broke. Yet I have an awesome collection because whenever a desirable record is pressed, I buy 2 or 3 copies. By selling the extras I afford my own copy. Not everyone has the luxury to be extremely well off. I'd kill to have mazzys old job, but I don't have such an outlet for my talents and I suffer from severe ptsd which screws with my ability to keep a career. When I first started buying mofis, I bought 2 of each limited one because id always end up with a damaged copy which mofi would say "too bad, it's either damaged at full price or none at all". Screw that. But then I learned I could make enough money to afford my copy and more by selling the second one. It's a win win. There's underground rap records that I'd sell in mere days for over $100 profit. I made $300 on signed Taylor swift records which got me the records I wanted. I don't go out of my way to flip, and it does gross me out when like a bands records sell out in one minute due to bots, forcing fans to pay 3x the price. However, if I see a record I know will sell for alot, I'm not going to not buy it. It's just common sense. I'm the same way with the records I love. Due to being broke, I can only afford to buy records I know will retain or grow in value. I'll wait 6 months to buy a record from my favorite band and buy one from a band I never heard of instead, if I know the former will decrease in price and the later will increase. I don't have the luxuries that many do to pay inflated prices just because I like something. Too many times I've gotten records that are $50 at release and then $20 the next year. Due to buying records as an investment I have afforded to buy most of my collection for free. Hell I've made money by collecting. if you're smart about it, you won't lose. Only in cases like mofi which are extremely rare, where there's a scandal, do you lose money. Mostly everything can be resold for retail at worst. Best part is the inherant hypocrisy. Guess who buys records as investments and flips good deals? Record stores. There's literally no difference between the two, and the little guy shouldn't get shamed while big record stores do the same exact thing. They buy a record for cheap, and sell it for more. They buy cheap used records as investments. Like shit ingroove Mike's bought like $100,000s worth of collections. Same with Chad kassem and his recent buy. They're not selling those right away, it's a long term investment. So if buying records as an investment is stupid, and if flipping is immoral, then looks like we gotta condemn record stores too. Hell most record store owners start out as one man flipping organizations. Like Chad kassem buying and reselling from distributors from his house. There's literally no difference. And because Chad invested in records he now owns acoustic sounds! If you're smart and put in the research, you won't lose money. Hell if you have the start up funds to buy enough copies, you can make it a full time job easy. You just have to follow vinyl buying groups, and only buy for retail. If you're smart with what you buy you will never lose money. Most records retain their value if not go up in today's age. Now the most ive ever gotten is 3-4 copies, but if you buy enough you can make $1000+ just by clicking a button or two. I wasn't motivated out of pure greed, just to afford to have a collection myself. And I'll always give good deals compared to most flippers. Like I sold Jeff's becks truth mofi for only $75 mint because I had 2 others and found the 3rd on the last restock for only $40 due to a sale. So the buyer was happy to get it near retail(as others were $100+) and I was happy to almost double my money. It was a win win. The only thing I ever lost on was I got 4 David crosby supervinyl cuz I canceled my mofi shipment and got music direct for free shipping, but they sent both. But due to the scandal it was only selling for $60ish. So i held onto them. Well now with his death, people are buying them up, and I'll be able to sell them for a profit. Only if people are buying flipper prices will they really ever lose money. The mofi scandal was just a weird once in a decade situation, most limited records retain their value. And you can make a bunch on unlimited records in demand between represses. I sold a Taylor swift record that goes for $30 for $110. I found it at a random store and made $80 in mere hours. I caught the last restock of mono today beach Boys from AP. Bought one for myself, sold the other one instantly for $150, making $70 and a free copy. If I didn't need money and saved it, I woulda made even more due to it never being repressed again. So if you can afford to buy 2 copies and pay for your own, then why the hell not? Sure it's messed up to buy up the whole stock, but this way you get a free record for hardly any work at all. And you're ensured a good copy I just hate how rich people look down on poor people just doing what they can to afford a record. If I didn't do this I'd be missing some of my favorite records due to not being able to afford them. Buying 2 or 3 copies is the best decision I've made and at worst I get my money back for retail. And best part is its exposed me to so much more music that I never knew of before. Look at the ridiculous prices Mike from ingroove charges for used/out of print records. They're like the highest of the discogs prices. Well if what he's doing is commendable then how is flipping a thing to be looked down upon? It's the same thing. Hell on hoffman people from Phoenix revealed that he's banned from other stores since he'd go there, buy uo all the good deals ment for members of the community, and would flip them in his store. That's the same exact thing, if not skeevier, yet everyone has respect for mike, yet he does the same thing as a flipper or investor. Being rich enough to own one of the biggest stores in America doesn't suddenly make you morally superior to anyone and id think liberal mazzy out of all people would understand the hypocrisy of condemning poor flippers and investors while praising rich ones. I don't support mass flipping via bots that keep albums from fans, however every broke record fan should flip a copy or two since it allows them to grow their collection and find new music. It's no different than a car guy finding an amazing deal and reselling it. Like if you walked into goodwill and found a marantz amp for $5, yet have a better amp at home, would you pass it up? No, everyone would buy it, because its a good investment. And my collections value has near doubled over retail, so unless vinyl crashes tomorrow, it was a good investment!
@@simonemurray1345 I don’t know anyone that does that. I’m taking about finding a 1959 Columbia White Label Promo of Miles Davis at a bookstore for $5 and selling it for $600 (as I did one time.) And having the value of your records zapped to below retail price due to a company’s misrepresentations is not a fair deal either…
Although Jim Davis/MOFI said that Tony Bennett's "I Left My Heart in San Francisco" was the first DSD LP, my analysis of MOFI's own Mastering Chain information on their site appears to show the first was actually in 2007 (which is why the start date of the starting date in the settlement of March 19, 2007): Nathalie Merchant "Tiger Lilly" as it shows "1/2" / 15 IPS / Dolby SR analog master to DSD 64 to analog console to lathe"...
I see Soul journey on the shelf. I love those Gillian Welch QRP pressings. The way I discovered her work and her records was from the video Michael Fremer made, touring the QRP facility. In one shot there was a box on the floor full of Harrow and the Harvest LPs. i thought the cover was so beautiful and intriguing that I made the effort to find out what it was.
@@SPAZZOID100 Not to mention, DSD apparently works since it can sound very good. Still, Mobile would have been better off being completely transparent along the way. They set the market for audiophile records prior to Chad starting Accoustic Sounds. He also credits Herb Belkin with selling him vinyl at wholesale so he could be a reseller and get into the vinyl business. it's not Jim Davis, don't have the name handy. Mobile just had to set that standard of complete transparency, while they could since they were the sort of referenance audiophile label at the time. Now they are paying for it somewhat but most of their reissues sound good.
@@SPAZZOID100 That part isn't the point, most rational thinking people don't care about analog vs. digital, it's the fact that they deliberately lied to their consumers for decades. Not "Fibbed". L I E D.
Someone may have already mentioned this but that Medicine Head is in the UK polylined inner sleeve (used by many major UK labels in the 60s/early 70s) notorious for sweating which can result in fogging on the record, usually impossible to remove. I'm not an audiophile and have too many records to replace the inners so I have tons kept in that particular inner. When I buy an lp where that inner is used I'll just keep it in there unless it's already fogged up the lp then I'll replace it.
@@bjrnsjohnsen1278 it's okay. I misspelled his last name. And it's okay to be corrected. I won't edit here as it puts these replies out of context. One m alright from now on.
"Mo-Fi’s Miles reissues keep coming. Porgy and Bess another atmospheric Miles-Gil Evans collaboration dropped early 2020. While all of these Miles albums are musically significant and many are sonically excellent on both original pressings and on these reissues, the biggest sonic surprise was how much better the reissued quintet (Shorter, Hancock, Carter, Williams) recordings sound compared to the originals. Whatever happened in the original mastering has been vastly improved on Nefertiti, Miles in the Sky and Filles De Kilimanjaro. If you have originals and think, you’re covered, you’re not! Get these while you can." - Michael Fremer.
Steve, who presses the arts & Craft LPs in Canada? There's an artist, Feist, and I really love the singer's voice. She doesn't have very many albums but I believe all of them have come out on the A&C label. Some of the vinyl LPs sound flawless and great but others, and maybe 50% of them, sound like snap, crackle, and pop are members of the band. I've noticed this label with other artists also and I can't find any rhyme or reason why it's a 50/50 chance that you will get a good pressing from them. Polydor/Interscope labels are often associated with the releases and they may be the parent company? But I'm curious about the Arts & Craft label and I wonder where they press their LPs in Canada? And are they just a small company or a pretty big company in Canada? Do you know? Thanks for any help if you're able to provide it.. Btw, I had a bootleg DVD I got back in the late 1990s that had DSOTM synced up to Wizard of Oz and I think everybody must have been really high when they came up with that story that the music and the video sync up and look like they go together. Sure, there are some parts that seem to go with the music but I think you could do that with any music and any video on TV haha. I nemissedo find that DVD because I'd like to watch it again and see if maybe I miss something 20 odd years ago. Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
RCA had a mastering facility in Toronto. RCA had their own pressing plant in Smith Falls, Ontatio which also pressed records for capitol in Canada. There was a plant in Cornwall called Compo, which pressed many records. Capitol later built its mastering and pressing plant in Mississauga, and Columbia built a plant in Don Mills. There was also quality record press, Spartan records, and Cinram just to name a few. It would help if you did more research on your Canadian pressings; the history is fascinating. Also, in the US, a copy would be further copied for production at all of the plants creating multiple generations of tapes even for original pressings. In Canada, since everything was manufactured in one factory, they wouldn't need to make all those copies and could cut straight from an earlier generation tape. And yes, many times, the record would be mastered in a foreign country and pressed in Canada. Look at your dead wax!
Canadian pressing plants used the same plates sent to US plants, to make the stampers that go on the press. Then they pressed fewer records per stamper cycle use than the US would have. Quality Records, Spartan and Campo produced some great sounding hot stamper vinyl in the 1960's. Cinram was not my cup of tea but it depended on what the record label payed to press their albums. Virgin Records Canada vinyl was pretty good for example. Kinney Records which was formerly Warner Reprise also produced some great vinyl comparable or better than the US pressing plants. The best sounding pressing of the Stones Exile On Main Street for example is a Kinney Records first pressing in my opinion. EMI/Capitol Canada pressed some awesome first Dark Side Of The Moon pressings as well. Again, always far fewer runs at a time than a US run of the same title. The original or tape copies were rarely sent to the plants. Only the metal work made from the cutting lathe that is used to produce press stampers. That means no mastering or eq etc.. the plant had no tapes work with, just the metal work for stampers. Some of those Japanese pressings many of us thought were the best in the 1970's, were only good sounding when ONLY the metal work was sent to the pressing plants in Japan. If the tapes OMR or copies were sent that meant that a Japanese raised recording engineer would do the mastering. Most of the music one listens to in Japan at that time was sting driven, minimal bass- not full range music so they way most of them would master the sound of western or EU music etc.. would be to drop the bass, increase the mid, attenuate the high freq etc.. Not always the case, but more often than you would have thought. The Japanese vinyl itself was always better than anywhere else in the world otherwise.
@@rixvspinner @koylesmasterpiece This is quite interesting. I always assumed that it was tape copies sent to Canada. I haven't done a lot of research but I have done some when looking up albums. Also my research has only come from discogs. The example you provide of Exile looks like it has the same etchings as copies pressed in France and Germany. So it is interesting that they don't match US or UK etchings. I've also looked for some US artists and haven't found those same etchings/stamps on Canadian records. I guess it was a bit of both ? Would love to dig deeper. If you guys have any insight I'd love to know more or know where you guys have researched.
@@attherockshow8902 I call it the great mystery! I wish there were a good book on the record manufacturing industry in Canada. I have spent hours reviewing deadwax and many hours on the internet trying to sort it all out.
The interview brought out the truth.. no matter who did it. The engineers acknowledged it the digital steps to the laquer. I don’t care how an LP is cut.. but dont mislead or lie
I do love the fetishisation of Analogue....we are getting to a point with high end dacs where we are surpassing the sound of analogue warmth, the mofi debate has highlighted this, and none of the no-fill, scratches etc
Fremer, get over it! Mike E. did a perfectly fine job of interviewing the guys at Mofi. And *you* can't tell if something is digital by ear. You said Abraxas might be the best LP you had ever heard. Period. Nothing in that review could be interpreted as you hearing digital. So all these cherry picked reviews you are citing as proof that you can hear digital is B.S.
The only thing is the room and the lighting at Mobile's facility was not great. Mike did an ok job I think. Did the Mobile staff look abit cagey at times, sort of but not enough that you dismiss them altogether.
This is why the audiophile community (sorry I meant the analog snobs) are pissed. It's because MoFi exposed them for these special ears that they don't have. Mike E. always used to claim that he hates digital, well in actual fact he loves it. MoFi proved him wrong. That always makes me smile.
On memory: I’m fifty and have lived through all the formats and music is an integral part of my lifestyle- but the albums of the late ‘00s have not lingered with me because that was a period of buying albums on iTunes
Is why I always describe my 50 yr love for vinyl as, "the vinyl experience" due to the entire & fantastic overall joy of the music + the album artwork + liner notes + the mechanics of playing albums. ALSO, I love my ROON digital system(s) but for different reasons, also valid.
Steve, since your guest brought it up, I suggest you review his comments on Mazzy's cleaning video that are directed towards the archivist and decide for yourself if they merit criticism. I think it's obvious he was out of line, as well as being wrong, scientifically speaking.
I think there were/are very few who returned LPs, and those that did, don't fully understand recording, mastering and the process and benefits of taking the tape and making a digital copy.
@@robgreenhalgh9637 Thank you! It needs to be said as much as possible to counter the mythology of the all analog mastering chain being sonically superior. THE state of the art for transferring and mastering vinyl from analog tapes is through digital transfers and DSP that corrects errors inherent in analog tape. It is an especially counter productive mythology when it is thought to be a better choice to make an analog tape dupe from an original analog tape master and use that as the cutting source just to keep it all analog. All you get is added tape hiss and time domain distortions from recording and play back of analog tape twice. The digital transfer option allows to have those distortions eliminated all the way back to the original analog recording itself.
@@scottwheeler2679 Exactly. Now even Fremer here backpeddles to admit "Oh my issue is with the eq" Infering that he doesnt really have an issue with the DSD process lol. What a joke. DSD is simply a transfer method folks. Educate yourselves and stop listening to old mastering engineers and old "journalists" that are stuck back in 1998.
Allow me to take THE ;) middle road from a near 50 yr vinyl listener/collector + an avid CD & streamer (Qobuz) listener perspective.... There are LITERALLY but a handful of vinyl industry professionals that deserve serious & affectionate appreciation from ALL vinyl album listeners/users/flippers/fans. And unless you're 45ish & up, you DON'T appreciate the near death of vinyl nor witness & experience what the likes of Michael F., Chad K., Michael H., Brad Miller, & several other peers did for the vinyl industry we enjoy "today". Unlike the graveyard of (LOTS) dead/gone media formats from the 70s to this latest decade, these guys' efforts + doggedness for "vinyl experience" particularly in the 90s-00s deserve a Vinyl HOF mantle.
@@dcrook232323 Of course, no doubt. That still doesnt excuse some of the behavior. You cant ride on your coatails of past respect and then shout at clouds and not expect to be called out.
Mike 45 read the Steve Hoffman thread exposing this and quoted it verbatim. In Groove Mike had his sources before Micheal Jackson scandal and gave a very poised and open interview. He got all the info out of them without hitting them over the head with a crowbar
Appaling that Fremer went for Esposito’s jugular when he spilled the beans about Mofi. What the hell could someone working in a RECORD store know about RECORDS? And that Fremer himself ignored? Went for the messenger’s jugular when incapable of discrediting the message.
I did not go for his jugular. Calm down. He repeated what at the time was a rumor. It turned out to be true but that's not what a journalist does. It's not a problem for a record store owner.
@@trackingangle929 You couldn’t be more going for the jugular than character assassination. And stop your 2-cents psychology. Keep focused on the message.
I definitely feel like no one is asking about and being too soft about the real problem here. False advertising. Esposito, Fremer, and everyone else is being way too nice to MoFi. They directly and deliberately lied and mislead their consumers for decades. Not "fibbed" as Fremer says here. They lied.
@@eddyrocks It’s not just lying; it’s far worse and dishonestly twisted. MoFi defrauded its clients by willfully not disclosing the fact there was a digital step and have them believe it was all analog, not counting discrediting digital media.
A lot of people could tell the difference between the dsd and the tape! You go back Like Michael fremer said and "he" as well as others gave a lot of those record's bad reviews!
Can anyone who purchased records from MOFI during the time in question return them (sealed) for a refund, or must you be a named party to one of the class action suits?
The proposed class includes the following: "All persons in the United States who, from March 19, 2007, to July 27, 2022, purchased, either directly from a Defendant or directly from retail merchants, new and unused vinyl recordings that were sourced from original analog master tapes and which utilized a direct stream digital transfer step in the mastering chain, and which were marketed by Defendants using the series labeling descriptors 'Original Master Recording' and/or 'Ultradisc One-Step,' provided that said purchasers still own said recordings. Excluded from the Class are persons who obtained subject recordings from other sources." So you have to have purchased the records (a) new and (b) either [i] directly from MoFi or [ii] directly from a retail merchant. You don't have to be a named plaintiff--just a member of the class. Wait until the court approves the motion. There are four other lawsuits, and plaintiffs' lawyers in those cases may object to the proposed settlement.
Hi Steve , checkout Chad’s Canadian Collection listings ! Some of those “audiophile “ CBS 1/2 speed masters a fetching some serious prices ! I have heard and compared many and to my ears they don’t sound very good! Some of the MCA ones are OK though ; quite a mixed bag!
I got to say, some of those early audiophile records sounded excellent. The Sheffield Labs Thelma Houston & The Pressure Cooker is really good. The Peter Appleyard white vinyl record was really good. For the Super Disc, I have Goodbye Yellow Brick Road and it never sounded this good on vinyl from I have heard including an original DJM UK pressing. Bernie Grundman did a great job on Elton's reissues for sure. Elton's Blue Moves sounds great and is under-rated.
Great conversation! I have the mofi one-step bridge over troubled water and it sounds terrible. I have a couple good sounding mofi releases, but in general they are not great. I've stopped buying from them for that reason and the dishonesty. Analogue Productions is way more consistent and puts out better sounding records. Probably because they actually think about the original recording and evaluate if it's good or not.
Why on earth do you guys think it is weird that Mofi did not go out of house and use Grundman to master Thriller? When has Mofi ever gone out of house to master anything? Mofi has a complete in house facility with proprietary gear that IS the selling point they promote and three staff mastering engineers. IMO it would be weird to expect them to hire Grundman for anything.
@@wallyallgood it was pretty vague. Fremer did say he contacted Mofi to see if they had hired Grundman to do this particular reissue. Either way it's the estate not the label that had say so over licensing an audiophile Thriller limited edition reissue. And since it would be a licensing deal it would be between the estate and a reissue label like Mofi or Analog Productions. Bernie Grundman is just a gun for hire. He doesn't license and produce audiophile reissues himself. It wouldn't make sense for the estate to reach out to him directly unless they were going to do the reissue themselves.
As far as the "why does Chris Bellman's version sound better than Bernie's?" question, imo -- from all the vinyl remasters I've heard from both of them, Bernie tends to be more gentle and does extremely minimal processing, whereas Chris seems to be a little more willing to add compression and get things sounding as musical and energetic as possible. Bernie does great, clean work but I think his minimalist approach may at some times be slightly detrimental. I could be wrong, they both do great work, they both have great studios. They are both human though and humans sometimes don't always do everything perfectly, and mastering is somewhat of an art; no two mastering engineers will get exactly the same results (unless they both do nothing)...I wouldn't blame the gear.
As the person in the cleaning livestream that advocated chemicals improve ultrasonic cleaning, here is what a scientist messaged me afterwards, which has been corroborated by other scientists. I highly suggest people get familiar with Nael Antins cleaning guide "Cavitation is in fact clearly aided by the presence of a surfactant. The role of a surfactant is to reduce surface tension. When surface tension is reduced, cavitation levels increase. Cavitation involves the creation of bubbles which requires breaking of surface tension. So lower tension means more bubbles, and more cavitation. Distilled and deionized water have higher surface tensions making cavitation more difficult, making the use of a surfactant in fact more valuable."
While it might not be 50%, I’d bet that a very high percentage (maybe 1/3rd) of people purchasing vinyl don’t have a turntable. The flippers and “collectors” are pervasive. Also, why does nobody talk about the piss poor quality of virtually all the new pressings?? They’re trash. Sure, acoustic sounds and blue note and anything else pressed at RTI or QRP are great, but that’s a small fraction of the garbage flooding the market.
Are you saying I can send back my Tapestry for a full refund to MFSI plus shipping. I purchased it from Acoustic Sounds. Does that matter. It sounds awful
Great interview Steve. As always. Fremer needs to stop talking about mofi. He’s been in the industry for decades and doesn’t need to be defensive. The defensiveness will taint his legacy. Still a great convo though. Keep them coming.
I see what the interviewer just did to counter Michael Fremmer’s rather disgusting and insensitive remark of Ghetto People, by saying when asked by Fremmer, how do you find time to listen to all of those new Tone Poet Bluenote recordings because I can’t keep up and he said, well I have a white family and…. This was a brilliant retort!!!
How has no one done this yet...espeically on UA-cam - would be glad to do it on my channel as it would probably generate MILLIONS of views - but I don't really know these guys personally - Get All The "Micheals" and anyone else who wants to claim they can hear the difference between a DSD cut and an All analog cut and do a "blind" test with multiple records - each has to blindly vote on the one they think is DSD and then... which sounds more desirable to them - and the results will show themselves - discussion over. As for MOFI in general - they are not an honest company plain and simple. Its not a one step process - its multiple - whether its the best sounding copy? not the point - your product isn't what you claim it to be and if it wasn't for YT they would still be omitting the one step factor. The REAL issue with MOFI?? They don't ship. Meaning - Records they have on "pre-order" will be there for YEARS at times - its just unacceptable....if I was dealing with any other company that said one thing and did another and then never shipped that thing wasn't what it was supposed to be.....I wouldn't do business with them again.
Then…..“I covered for them!” Michael Fremer in interview with Michael 45. Now…”All these people came to my sight and accused me of covering for MoFi!” What a joke. This guy just can’t handle the fact that he got scooped. He knew something was shady years ago…and did nothing.
@@trackingangle929 I read it. You didn’t say they were DIGITAL copies. Why not? You got rolled by MoFi. You claim they ran all over Esposito….they ran ALL over YOU.
Fremer never, *ever* heard, detected, or otherwise stated he heard a "digital step" in Mobil Fidelity's purported "analog to vinyl" process. That's because Fremer -- and NO other "analog audiophile" can hear it or detect it. The purported purity/quality of analog to vinyl is a lie, as exposed in the MoFi scandal. And nothing Fremer or any other "analog audiophile" says will *ever* change this fact.
@@Jamko1970 better is subjective. The OGs sound great but the TPs sound more like the tapes because the highs and lows are not cut off like the original records
my big Wilson XVXes are pretty much up against the wall. The sound is phenomenal. There are no hard and fast rules for this. It's to a great degree room dependent.
@@stevewestman7774 I don't know if it is that high of a percentage. But I think it is more than we think. They don't think like we do. They collect records and think that one day they will eventually get a turntable.
@@stevewestman7774 Oh, it’s certainly true. I guess some folk make purchases as an investment. But I do know for sure that at least a decade ago I started buying signed records from the merch tables after live performances. Long before I purchased a turntable. And I was in my late forties back then. It’s memorabilia that I enjoy to this day 😊
Fremer has a real problem with letting things go. 4 minutes in and he's repeating the same old MoFi gravy train stuff. Fremer also makes it sound like the Mazzy cleaning video was a drunken free for all. It was 3 people checking out an ultrasonic cleaner, talking about the results and enjoying the process. It wasn't meant to be a master class on cleaning records. In the 80's my Grandpa lost his mind when his beautiful music station switched formats. He was being phased out and he didn't like it. Same with Fremer. For better or worse he's not the voice of a new generation.
@@analoguecity3454 Don't mistake criticism for frustration. I like Fremer. Less than I did years ago but I'm still a fan. His Analog Planet radio shows (WFMU) are IMO required listening. PS - I have my own basement for that.
maybe its just me, but Fremer seems to have an attitude more than usual. Really acts like he's not interested in being there, and that Steve is annoying him.
😂😂😂 amazing to hear Fremer is still sore about the Washington Post article. I dropped a mildly critical comment on it and that set him off. And here he is, still whining, adding a frisson of racial stereotyping in the process. Lovely work!
A lot of the Springsteen stuff was mixed to pcm1600 digital (essentially the original 16 bit DAT...which was also used on a lot of the big budget albums of the late 70s and early 80s), so having them on vinyl in the first place is questionable...but to say the Springsteen albums never sounded good?! ...Bob Clearmountain mixed the hell out of those. Born in the USA wasn't a huge timeless hit because it sounded mediocre
Regarding the pcm 1600 digital, wasn't that just 1980's The River? Not sure, but I think everything up to the late 80's was recorded and mixed analog? Anyway, to your point about Born In the USA: music critic Robert Christgau's A+ Consumer Guide / Village Voice review at the time: "...the aural vibrancy of the thing reminds me like nothing in years that what teenagers loved about rock and roll wasn't that it was catchy or even vibrant but that it just plain sounded good."
@@about.the.music... no, Born in the USA and I think a few others were mixed to pcm (so many albums back then were so proud of their use of this technology that they'd mention it in the liner notes on the original vinyl).
@@voccsaycee30 yes, there certainly has been a lot of audiophile revision over the course of these past years and decades... I'll have to dig into the mixing history of the Boss' catalog, but my understanding is that the recordings of the first 7 albums, at least, were to tape. And with Nebraska, of course, I can double down on that :)
BTW Steve, you talk about listening to DSOTM high in collage, never did drugs but try listening to it on the way to a combat engagement on a Black Hawk, now that's a a real rush my friend.
That sounds so cool, some nice combat engagement with music. And then the black Hawk is hit by an RPG, while I listen to Miles Davis, but it's mastered from DSD so it ruins the experience!!!! The army is not for everyone clearly.
@@Lasse3 Funny, you don't realize how close to home you hit. 3-Oct-1993, Mogadishu, 2 blackhawks downed, 18 KIA including my best friend, Msgt Gary Gordon...29 plus years later, never out of my thoughts, no music that day.
I will bet that this proposed settlement does NOT go through "as is" and the other 4 cases won't join in. The courts don't like these coupon schemes as a settlement.
Seriously you seem like a really nice guy so I have to ask why you still bother giving Mr Fremer a platform, he completely derailed your interview which was extremely rude. I agree with other comments here, Mr Fremer can't let things go, please just shut up and if he's right then time will tell. Lastly you looked really, really uncomfortable by 7 minutes in. About the time I wanted to turn off. Mr Fremer is not a good guest for your channel.
Mikey's been saying that the vinyl resurgence is "real" as long as Al Gore's been saying we're all going to die from global warming. He always has to defend the success of vinyl sales, someone has to. Like him or not, he has been all in from the beginning.
56:59 what the heck you guys! In this segment you’ve been disputing whether half of record buyers don’t own turntables; or whether this years sales increase was just 4%; well why did you leave out the main point in that article, which is the huge increase in the price of new records over this past couple years??? THAT was the main gist of the piece, which is whether record sales are starting to show that they’re overpriced for many people now!
I find it a bit laughable when I read the non stop shots at MF when they don't have a clue or know any more then he doe's. I've known him for years & don't always agree with him, however to question his intellectual dishonesty proove's you're unreasonable bias towards him. I defy anyone to listen to record that sounds good or bad & say it's because it was cut digitally or they are the actual masters.
I guess we have been waiting for a stereo remix, best done by Steven Wilson, simply, only stereo with first vinyls as a reference - this new box is ridicuolus, and the price - piece of cr.. or sh.. - I do not need it - I got the Immersion version some years ago - enough - Animals proves that lots of sound is hidden / buried in the original mix, probably often due to the technology existing in those times - when I listen to S Wilson remixes I know it's close to early versions (f.e. Jethro Tull), it's fat, lively,, vocals are clear, the sound is much closer to the original first generation tapes, true sound of instruments, like it is also in the case of Beatles White Album done by G Martin - but he, on the other hand, manipulates too much, and I don't like it
100% agree with Fremer about having the records to pull out vs streaming. After 60 years of collecting he is so spot on...Love everything my LPs do for me every day.
Nice interview Steve. I always enjoy listening to Fremer.
Great! Thanks for the conversation.
Always informative and entertaining. I could have listened to yo both for hours. Thank you.
Fremer goes ballistic right off the bat. Love it
Nice one. Steve, I always enjoy your conversations. Fremer’s Pink Floyd story was one I hadn’t heard yet. Thanks !
"These [Mobile Fidelity] double 45rpm single-step AAA boxed set pressings are as good as vinyl records get. If they don’t sound good on your system, it’s your system... You may question some of the musical choices, but there’s no doubt about the superior sound quality." - Michael Fremer
They sound terrible on my system 😓
@@Lasse3 you should sell your crossley. LoL. Kidding
I totally agree with those who buy records for investment. Don’t feel sorry for flippers. Buy because you love the music. Good conversation
No offense but that’s how some people make money Norman. They use their smarts and knowledge to to get a resource that is undervalued and sell it to wealthy people like you who can afford every single item that is ever released.
It's always about the $$$ and the BS with you, Spazzlov
@@zackamania6534 I don't agree with the flippers who use bots and buy out 100s of records and inflating them. However, buying records as an investment shouldn't be hated on.
I'm broke. Yet I have an awesome collection because whenever a desirable record is pressed, I buy 2 or 3 copies. By selling the extras I afford my own copy. Not everyone has the luxury to be extremely well off. I'd kill to have mazzys old job, but I don't have such an outlet for my talents and I suffer from severe ptsd which screws with my ability to keep a career.
When I first started buying mofis, I bought 2 of each limited one because id always end up with a damaged copy which mofi would say "too bad, it's either damaged at full price or none at all". Screw that. But then I learned I could make enough money to afford my copy and more by selling the second one. It's a win win.
There's underground rap records that I'd sell in mere days for over $100 profit. I made $300 on signed Taylor swift records which got me the records I wanted.
I don't go out of my way to flip, and it does gross me out when like a bands records sell out in one minute due to bots, forcing fans to pay 3x the price. However, if I see a record I know will sell for alot, I'm not going to not buy it. It's just common sense. I'm the same way with the records I love. Due to being broke, I can only afford to buy records I know will retain or grow in value. I'll wait 6 months to buy a record from my favorite band and buy one from a band I never heard of instead, if I know the former will decrease in price and the later will increase. I don't have the luxuries that many do to pay inflated prices just because I like something. Too many times I've gotten records that are $50 at release and then $20 the next year.
Due to buying records as an investment I have afforded to buy most of my collection for free. Hell I've made money by collecting. if you're smart about it, you won't lose. Only in cases like mofi which are extremely rare, where there's a scandal, do you lose money. Mostly everything can be resold for retail at worst.
Best part is the inherant hypocrisy. Guess who buys records as investments and flips good deals? Record stores. There's literally no difference between the two, and the little guy shouldn't get shamed while big record stores do the same exact thing. They buy a record for cheap, and sell it for more. They buy cheap used records as investments. Like shit ingroove Mike's bought like $100,000s worth of collections. Same with Chad kassem and his recent buy. They're not selling those right away, it's a long term investment. So if buying records as an investment is stupid, and if flipping is immoral, then looks like we gotta condemn record stores too. Hell most record store owners start out as one man flipping organizations. Like Chad kassem buying and reselling from distributors from his house. There's literally no difference. And because Chad invested in records he now owns acoustic sounds!
If you're smart and put in the research, you won't lose money. Hell if you have the start up funds to buy enough copies, you can make it a full time job easy. You just have to follow vinyl buying groups, and only buy for retail. If you're smart with what you buy you will never lose money. Most records retain their value if not go up in today's age. Now the most ive ever gotten is 3-4 copies, but if you buy enough you can make $1000+ just by clicking a button or two. I wasn't motivated out of pure greed, just to afford to have a collection myself. And I'll always give good deals compared to most flippers. Like I sold Jeff's becks truth mofi for only $75 mint because I had 2 others and found the 3rd on the last restock for only $40 due to a sale. So the buyer was happy to get it near retail(as others were $100+) and I was happy to almost double my money. It was a win win. The only thing I ever lost on was I got 4 David crosby supervinyl cuz I canceled my mofi shipment and got music direct for free shipping, but they sent both. But due to the scandal it was only selling for $60ish. So i held onto them. Well now with his death, people are buying them up, and I'll be able to sell them for a profit. Only if people are buying flipper prices will they really ever lose money. The mofi scandal was just a weird once in a decade situation, most limited records retain their value. And you can make a bunch on unlimited records in demand between represses. I sold a Taylor swift record that goes for $30 for $110. I found it at a random store and made $80 in mere hours. I caught the last restock of mono today beach Boys from AP. Bought one for myself, sold the other one instantly for $150, making $70 and a free copy. If I didn't need money and saved it, I woulda made even more due to it never being repressed again. So if you can afford to buy 2 copies and pay for your own, then why the hell not? Sure it's messed up to buy up the whole stock, but this way you get a free record for hardly any work at all. And you're ensured a good copy
I just hate how rich people look down on poor people just doing what they can to afford a record. If I didn't do this I'd be missing some of my favorite records due to not being able to afford them. Buying 2 or 3 copies is the best decision I've made and at worst I get my money back for retail. And best part is its exposed me to so much more music that I never knew of before.
Look at the ridiculous prices Mike from ingroove charges for used/out of print records. They're like the highest of the discogs prices. Well if what he's doing is commendable then how is flipping a thing to be looked down upon? It's the same thing. Hell on hoffman people from Phoenix revealed that he's banned from other stores since he'd go there, buy uo all the good deals ment for members of the community, and would flip them in his store. That's the same exact thing, if not skeevier, yet everyone has respect for mike, yet he does the same thing as a flipper or investor. Being rich enough to own one of the biggest stores in America doesn't suddenly make you morally superior to anyone and id think liberal mazzy out of all people would understand the hypocrisy of condemning poor flippers and investors while praising rich ones.
I don't support mass flipping via bots that keep albums from fans, however every broke record fan should flip a copy or two since it allows them to grow their collection and find new music. It's no different than a car guy finding an amazing deal and reselling it. Like if you walked into goodwill and found a marantz amp for $5, yet have a better amp at home, would you pass it up? No, everyone would buy it, because its a good investment. And my collections value has near doubled over retail, so unless vinyl crashes tomorrow, it was a good investment!
@@simonemurray1345 I don’t know anyone that does that. I’m taking about finding a 1959 Columbia White Label Promo of Miles Davis at a bookstore for $5 and selling it for $600 (as I did one time.) And having the value of your records zapped to below retail price due to a company’s misrepresentations is not a fair deal either…
@@BattManion1979 we don’t play that nonsense in the burgh 😂
Mr. Fremer gets more defensive than I do! I enjoy your interviews, Steve. Keep it up.
Enjoying this conversation, despite it makes no sense whatsoever, in so many ways
Michael, I am grateful for the SAAB story.
Good talk, guys. Thanks, Steve and Michael 👍🎶😊
WOW FREMER'S COMING BACK DID A GREAT JOB BOTH OF YOU GUYS
Although Jim Davis/MOFI said that Tony Bennett's "I Left My Heart in San Francisco" was the first DSD LP, my analysis of MOFI's own Mastering Chain information on their site appears to show the first was actually in 2007 (which is why the start date of the starting date in the settlement of March 19, 2007): Nathalie Merchant "Tiger Lilly" as it shows "1/2" / 15 IPS / Dolby SR analog master to DSD 64 to analog console to lathe"...
Yes. Tiger Lilly is the first DSD to vinyl.
I see Soul journey on the shelf. I love those Gillian Welch QRP pressings. The way I discovered her work and her records was from the video Michael Fremer made, touring the QRP facility. In one shot there was a box on the floor full of Harrow and the Harvest LPs. i thought the cover was so beautiful and intriguing that I made the effort to find out what it was.
Damage should be never to trust a company that misrepresented their product for decades
DSD is perfect.
@@SPAZZOID100 Not to mention, DSD apparently works since it can sound very good. Still, Mobile would have been better off being completely transparent along the way. They set the market for audiophile records prior to Chad starting Accoustic Sounds. He also credits Herb Belkin with selling him vinyl at wholesale so he could be a reseller and get into the vinyl business. it's not Jim Davis, don't have the name handy. Mobile just had to set that standard of complete transparency, while they could since they were the sort of referenance audiophile label at the time. Now they are paying for it somewhat but most of their reissues sound good.
@@SPAZZOID100 That part isn't the point, most rational thinking people don't care about analog vs. digital, it's the fact that they deliberately lied to their consumers for decades. Not "Fibbed". L I E D.
I know someone who purchases vinyl and doesn't own a record player. It's actually common. They even wait for New Record day and go in groups.
Someone may have already mentioned this but that Medicine Head is in the UK polylined inner sleeve (used by many major UK labels in the 60s/early 70s) notorious for sweating which can result in fogging on the record, usually impossible to remove. I'm not an audiophile and have too many records to replace the inners so I have tons kept in that particular inner. When I buy an lp where that inner is used I'll just keep it in there unless it's already fogged up the lp then I'll replace it.
Michael Fremer is a Vinyl God!!!!!
He's always fun to have on.
@@stevewestman7774 He's the Greatest Steve. Like him or not, He has the knowledge!
I have a lot of respect for him.
Fremer is so easy to laugh at
Nice chat!
Hope Fremer does a review between the 2016 Stones Mono box vs 2023 Stones mono box
Fremmer has to go through the same points everytime he talks about the subject.
And some people always feel the need to correct others, even though it reflects poorly on themselves.
@@bjrnsjohnsen1278 it's okay. I misspelled his last name. And it's okay to be corrected. I won't edit here as it puts these replies out of context. One m alright from now on.
"Mo-Fi’s Miles reissues keep coming. Porgy and Bess another atmospheric Miles-Gil Evans collaboration dropped early 2020. While all of these Miles albums are musically significant and many are sonically excellent on both original pressings and on these reissues, the biggest sonic surprise was how much better the reissued quintet (Shorter, Hancock, Carter, Williams) recordings sound compared to the originals. Whatever happened in the original mastering has been vastly improved on Nefertiti, Miles in the Sky and Filles De Kilimanjaro. If you have originals and think, you’re covered, you’re not! Get these while you can." - Michael Fremer.
Steve, who presses the arts & Craft LPs in Canada? There's an artist, Feist, and I really love the singer's voice. She doesn't have very many albums but I believe all of them have come out on the A&C label. Some of the vinyl LPs sound flawless and great but others, and maybe 50% of them, sound like snap, crackle, and pop are members of the band. I've noticed this label with other artists also and I can't find any rhyme or reason why it's a 50/50 chance that you will get a good pressing from them. Polydor/Interscope labels are often associated with the releases and they may be the parent company? But I'm curious about the Arts & Craft label and I wonder where they press their LPs in Canada? And are they just a small company or a pretty big company in Canada? Do you know? Thanks for any help if you're able to provide it..
Btw, I had a bootleg DVD I got back in the late 1990s that had DSOTM synced up to Wizard of Oz and I think everybody must have been really high when they came up with that story that the music and the video sync up and look like they go together. Sure, there are some parts that seem to go with the music but I think you could do that with any music and any video on TV haha. I nemissedo find that DVD because I'd like to watch it again and see if maybe I miss something 20 odd years ago.
Brian in Fort Worth 🎶
RCA had a mastering facility in Toronto. RCA had their own pressing plant in Smith Falls, Ontatio which also pressed records for capitol in Canada. There was a plant in Cornwall called Compo, which pressed many records. Capitol later built its mastering and pressing plant in Mississauga, and Columbia built a plant in Don Mills. There was also quality record press, Spartan records, and Cinram just to name a few. It would help if you did more research on your Canadian pressings; the history is fascinating. Also, in the US, a copy would be further copied for production at all of the plants creating multiple generations of tapes even for original pressings. In Canada, since everything was manufactured in one factory, they wouldn't need to make all those copies and could cut straight from an earlier generation tape. And yes, many times, the record would be mastered in a foreign country and pressed in Canada. Look at your dead wax!
Canadian pressing plants used the same plates sent to US plants, to make the stampers that go on the press. Then they pressed fewer records per stamper cycle use than the US would have. Quality Records, Spartan and Campo produced some great sounding hot stamper vinyl in the 1960's. Cinram was not my cup of tea but it depended on what the record label payed to press their albums. Virgin Records Canada vinyl was pretty good for example. Kinney Records which was formerly Warner Reprise also produced some great vinyl comparable or better than the US pressing plants. The best sounding pressing of the Stones Exile On Main Street for example is a Kinney Records first pressing in my opinion. EMI/Capitol Canada pressed some awesome first Dark Side Of The Moon pressings as well. Again, always far fewer runs at a time than a US run of the same title. The original or tape copies were rarely sent to the plants. Only the metal work made from the cutting lathe that is used to produce press stampers. That means no mastering or eq etc.. the plant had no tapes work with, just the metal work for stampers. Some of those Japanese pressings many of us thought were the best in the 1970's, were only good sounding when ONLY the metal work was sent to the pressing plants in Japan. If the tapes OMR or copies were sent that meant that a Japanese raised recording engineer would do the mastering. Most of the music one listens to in Japan at that time was sting driven, minimal bass- not full range music so they way most of them would master the sound of western or EU music etc.. would be to drop the bass, increase the mid, attenuate the high freq etc.. Not always the case, but more often than you would have thought. The Japanese vinyl itself was always better than anywhere else in the world otherwise.
@@rixvspinner @koylesmasterpiece This is quite interesting. I always assumed that it was tape copies sent to Canada. I haven't done a lot of research but I have done some when looking up albums. Also my research has only come from discogs. The example you provide of Exile looks like it has the same etchings as copies pressed in France and Germany. So it is interesting that they don't match US or UK etchings. I've also looked for some US artists and haven't found those same etchings/stamps on Canadian records. I guess it was a bit of both ? Would love to dig deeper. If you guys have any insight I'd love to know more or know where you guys have researched.
@@attherockshow8902 I call it the great mystery! I wish there were a good book on the record manufacturing industry in Canada. I have spent hours reviewing deadwax and many hours on the internet trying to sort it all out.
The interview brought out the truth.. no matter who did it. The engineers acknowledged it the digital steps to the laquer. I don’t care how an LP is cut.. but dont mislead or lie
DSOTM was one of the first LP with EMS Synthi AKS sound. I think they used two during the recording
Great video! Love BG also! But just one comment: is "better" = "different"?
How did you crank up the HDR like that?
I do love the fetishisation of Analogue....we are getting to a point with high end dacs where we are surpassing the sound of analogue warmth, the mofi debate has highlighted this, and none of the no-fill, scratches etc
Great video
Fremer, get over it! Mike E. did a perfectly fine job of interviewing the guys at Mofi. And *you* can't tell if something is digital by ear. You said Abraxas might be the best LP you had ever heard. Period. Nothing in that review could be interpreted as you hearing digital. So all these cherry picked reviews you are citing as proof that you can hear digital is B.S.
100% Scott!
Thank you. Better said than I could.
The only thing is the room and the lighting at Mobile's facility was not great. Mike did an ok job I think. Did the Mobile staff look abit cagey at times, sort of but not enough that you dismiss them altogether.
This is why the audiophile community (sorry I meant the analog snobs) are pissed. It's because MoFi exposed them for these special ears that they don't have. Mike E. always used to claim that he hates digital, well in actual fact he loves it. MoFi proved him wrong. That always makes me smile.
On memory: I’m fifty and have lived through all the formats and music is an integral part of my lifestyle- but the albums of the late ‘00s have not lingered with me because that was a period of buying albums on iTunes
Is why I always describe my 50 yr love for vinyl as, "the vinyl experience" due to the entire & fantastic overall joy of the music + the album artwork + liner notes + the mechanics of playing albums. ALSO, I love my ROON digital system(s) but for different reasons, also valid.
I'm for what happened. Mike goes and asks the question. Awkward yes, but Mike got the answer. I don't care who was stuck in traffic.
Amen!
Steve, since your guest brought it up, I suggest you review his comments on Mazzy's cleaning video that are directed towards the archivist and decide for yourself if they merit criticism. I think it's obvious he was out of line, as well as being wrong, scientifically speaking.
Glad Mofi is most likely going to be ok. The lawsuits will amount to basically nothing. And Ive heard very little about folks returning lps en masse.
I think there were/are very few who returned LPs, and those that did, don't fully understand recording, mastering and the process and benefits of taking the tape and making a digital copy.
@@robgreenhalgh9637 Thank you! It needs to be said as much as possible to counter the mythology of the all analog mastering chain being sonically superior. THE state of the art for transferring and mastering vinyl from analog tapes is through digital transfers and DSP that corrects errors inherent in analog tape. It is an especially counter productive mythology when it is thought to be a better choice to make an analog tape dupe from an original analog tape master and use that as the cutting source just to keep it all analog. All you get is added tape hiss and time domain distortions from recording and play back of analog tape twice. The digital transfer option allows to have those distortions eliminated all the way back to the original analog recording itself.
@@scottwheeler2679 Exactly. Now even Fremer here backpeddles to admit "Oh my issue is with the eq" Infering that he doesnt really have an issue with the DSD process lol. What a joke.
DSD is simply a transfer method folks. Educate yourselves and stop listening to old mastering engineers and old "journalists" that are stuck back in 1998.
Allow me to take THE ;) middle road from a near 50 yr vinyl listener/collector + an avid CD & streamer (Qobuz) listener perspective....
There are LITERALLY but a handful of vinyl industry professionals that deserve serious & affectionate appreciation from ALL vinyl album listeners/users/flippers/fans. And unless you're 45ish & up, you DON'T appreciate the near death of vinyl nor witness & experience what the likes of Michael F., Chad K., Michael H., Brad Miller, & several other peers did for the vinyl industry we enjoy "today". Unlike the graveyard of (LOTS) dead/gone media formats from the 70s to this latest decade, these guys' efforts + doggedness for "vinyl experience" particularly in the 90s-00s deserve a Vinyl HOF mantle.
@@dcrook232323 Of course, no doubt. That still doesnt excuse some of the behavior. You cant ride on your coatails of past respect and then shout at clouds and not expect to be called out.
Mike 45 read the Steve Hoffman thread exposing this and quoted it verbatim.
In Groove Mike had his sources before Micheal Jackson scandal and gave a very poised and open interview. He got all the info out of them without hitting them over the head with a crowbar
Wow that is a lot of people in the class action!
All losers.
If Fremer did not like some of those mofi’s, it was due to the EQ choices, not because they were cut from DSD.
well thats what he says now..
Appaling that Fremer went for Esposito’s jugular when he spilled the beans about Mofi. What the hell could someone working in a RECORD store know about RECORDS? And that Fremer himself ignored? Went for the messenger’s jugular when incapable of discrediting the message.
I did not go for his jugular. Calm down. He repeated what at the time was a rumor. It turned out to be true but that's not what a journalist does. It's not a problem for a record store owner.
@@trackingangle929 You couldn’t be more going for the jugular than character assassination. And stop your 2-cents psychology. Keep focused on the message.
I definitely feel like no one is asking about and being too soft about the real problem here. False advertising. Esposito, Fremer, and everyone else is being way too nice to MoFi. They directly and deliberately lied and mislead their consumers for decades. Not "fibbed" as Fremer says here. They lied.
@@eddyrocks It’s not just lying; it’s far worse and dishonestly twisted. MoFi defrauded its clients by willfully not disclosing the fact there was a digital step and have them believe it was all analog, not counting discrediting digital media.
An enjoyable listen Steve!
A lot of people could tell the difference between the dsd and the tape! You go back Like Michael fremer said and "he" as well as others gave a lot of those record's bad reviews!
If you get board with the Floyd theres always hawkwind!
Can anyone who purchased records from MOFI during the time in question return them (sealed) for a refund, or must you be a named party to one of the class action suits?
The proposed class includes the following:
"All persons in the United States who, from March 19, 2007, to July 27, 2022, purchased, either directly from a Defendant or directly from retail merchants, new and unused vinyl recordings that were sourced from original analog master tapes and which utilized a direct stream digital transfer step in the mastering chain, and which were marketed by Defendants using the series labeling descriptors 'Original Master Recording' and/or 'Ultradisc One-Step,' provided that said purchasers still own said recordings. Excluded from the Class are persons who obtained subject recordings from other sources."
So you have to have purchased the records (a) new and (b) either [i] directly from MoFi or [ii] directly from a retail merchant.
You don't have to be a named plaintiff--just a member of the class.
Wait until the court approves the motion. There are four other lawsuits, and plaintiffs' lawyers in those cases may object to the proposed settlement.
Hi Steve , checkout Chad’s Canadian Collection listings ! Some of those “audiophile “ CBS 1/2 speed masters a fetching some serious prices ! I have heard and compared many and to my ears they don’t sound very good! Some of the MCA ones are OK though ; quite a mixed bag!
I got to say, some of those early audiophile records sounded excellent. The Sheffield Labs Thelma Houston & The Pressure Cooker is really good. The Peter Appleyard white vinyl record was really good. For the Super Disc, I have Goodbye Yellow Brick Road and it never sounded this good on vinyl from I have heard including an original DJM UK pressing. Bernie Grundman did a great job on Elton's reissues for sure. Elton's Blue Moves sounds great and is under-rated.
Great conversation! I have the mofi one-step bridge over troubled water and it sounds terrible. I have a couple good sounding mofi releases, but in general they are not great. I've stopped buying from them for that reason and the dishonesty. Analogue Productions is way more consistent and puts out better sounding records. Probably because they actually think about the original recording and evaluate if it's good or not.
Nobody talks about the DSOTM 40th, I like it as well. I’m only getting the photo book and the live album
I agree with Michael about Dark Side that the old original MoFi is very good. So is their Aja.
Why on earth do you guys think it is weird that Mofi did not go out of house and use Grundman to master Thriller? When has Mofi ever gone out of house to master anything? Mofi has a complete in house facility with proprietary gear that IS the selling point they promote and three staff mastering engineers. IMO it would be weird to expect them to hire Grundman for anything.
lol no one is saying why didn’t mofi reach out to BG, they’re asking why didn’t THE LABEL reach out to BG and use mofi instead
@@wallyallgood it was pretty vague. Fremer did say he contacted Mofi to see if they had hired Grundman to do this particular reissue. Either way it's the estate not the label that had say so over licensing an audiophile Thriller limited edition reissue. And since it would be a licensing deal it would be between the estate and a reissue label like Mofi or Analog Productions. Bernie Grundman is just a gun for hire. He doesn't license and produce audiophile reissues himself. It wouldn't make sense for the estate to reach out to him directly unless they were going to do the reissue themselves.
Was Steve on the back foot here from the get go? Awkward watch at times, but fun.
As far as the "why does Chris Bellman's version sound better than Bernie's?" question, imo -- from all the vinyl remasters I've heard from both of them, Bernie tends to be more gentle and does extremely minimal processing, whereas Chris seems to be a little more willing to add compression and get things sounding as musical and energetic as possible. Bernie does great, clean work but I think his minimalist approach may at some times be slightly detrimental. I could be wrong, they both do great work, they both have great studios. They are both human though and humans sometimes don't always do everything perfectly, and mastering is somewhat of an art; no two mastering engineers will get exactly the same results (unless they both do nothing)...I wouldn't blame the gear.
As the person in the cleaning livestream that advocated chemicals improve ultrasonic cleaning, here is what a scientist messaged me afterwards, which has been corroborated by other scientists. I highly suggest people get familiar with Nael Antins cleaning guide
"Cavitation is in fact clearly aided by the presence of a surfactant. The role of a surfactant is to reduce surface tension. When surface tension is reduced, cavitation levels increase. Cavitation involves the creation of bubbles which requires breaking of surface tension. So lower tension means more bubbles, and more cavitation. Distilled and deionized water have higher surface tensions making cavitation more difficult, making the use of a surfactant in fact more valuable."
Thanks for this. 👍
The mad interrupter. Mikey threw in some jokes that went over Steve's head. Tuned in for Mikey only. Won't be back.
Is the MoFi "shady Grove" by David Grisman and Jerry Garcia taken from a digital source?
Jerry Garcia and David Grisman - Garcia/Grisman.
1/2" / 30 IPS analog master direct to lathe.
@@stevewestman7774 Was hoping the Garcia/Grisman stuff was analogue
@@stevewestman7774 But what about the Shady Grove release from 1996?
@@kevinjones9685 I’m not 100% sure since it was a 2017 releases. It could be analog.
I ignored the nth release of DSOTM too. Nothing will top a clean A2/B3 early UK pressing for me, it spoiled my ears forever.
Like the pun at the end
Michael looks great for his age, and he has integrity.
So the MOFI gate in 2022 were/is the start of the vinyl decline sales.
If not it anyway probably contributed to were we are today..
These two peg the needle on the "daddy wasn't there, I need attention" vibes.
They should strap them to a rack like the one Torquemada used and make them confess.
While it might not be 50%, I’d bet that a very high percentage (maybe 1/3rd) of people purchasing vinyl don’t have a turntable. The flippers and “collectors” are pervasive. Also, why does nobody talk about the piss poor quality of virtually all the new pressings?? They’re trash. Sure, acoustic sounds and blue note and anything else pressed at RTI or QRP are great, but that’s a small fraction of the garbage flooding the market.
I got the Billie Eilish, Noah Cyrus and Lana del Rey albums this year--I would like to tell myself they reciorded with tape
Are you saying I can send back my Tapestry for a full refund to MFSI plus shipping. I purchased it from Acoustic Sounds. Does that matter. It sounds awful
45RPM? Sounds great.
@@SPAZZOID100 I have the classic version which I prefer. I would rather return it then try and sell in on Ebay at a big loss
Great interview Steve. As always.
Fremer needs to stop talking about mofi. He’s been in the industry for decades and doesn’t need to be defensive. The defensiveness will taint his legacy.
Still a great convo though. Keep them coming.
No, Steve needs to stop bringing it up in every video he does.
Torching his legacy for the sake of his massive ego
I see what the interviewer just did to counter Michael Fremmer’s rather disgusting and insensitive remark of Ghetto People, by saying when asked by Fremmer, how do you find time to listen to all of those new Tone Poet Bluenote recordings because I can’t keep up and he said, well I have a white family and…. This was a brilliant retort!!!
D’uh! He said WIFE and family!
How has no one done this yet...espeically on UA-cam - would be glad to do it on my channel as it would probably generate MILLIONS of views - but I don't really know these guys personally - Get All The "Micheals" and anyone else who wants to claim they can hear the difference between a DSD cut and an All analog cut and do a "blind" test with multiple records - each has to blindly vote on the one they think is DSD and then... which sounds more desirable to them - and the results will show themselves - discussion over. As for MOFI in general - they are not an honest company plain and simple. Its not a one step process - its multiple - whether its the best sounding copy? not the point - your product isn't what you claim it to be and if it wasn't for YT they would still be omitting the one step factor. The REAL issue with MOFI?? They don't ship. Meaning - Records they have on "pre-order" will be there for YEARS at times - its just unacceptable....if I was dealing with any other company that said one thing and did another and then never shipped that thing wasn't what it was supposed to be.....I wouldn't do business with them again.
Dosent matter who hears what. A digital Step improves nothing. shouldn’t ever be there.
@@user-yk4gd1fl4z Oh yes it does matter. The digital step wasn't meant to improve anything.
This would have been so much better for both of you if you just had done this conversation privately. It does not flatter you two.
433 Carrall is in Chinatown dude. That ain't the heart of downtown bro!
Then…..“I covered for them!” Michael Fremer in interview with Michael 45. Now…”All these people came to my sight and accused me of covering for MoFi!” What a joke. This guy just can’t handle the fact that he got scooped. He knew something was shady years ago…and did nothing.
hahaha. I said years ago that Mo-Fi cuts from copies of masters. I did something. I wrote that. You didn't read it. Your problem. Not mine.
@@trackingangle929 I read it. You didn’t say they were DIGITAL copies. Why not? You got rolled by MoFi. You claim they ran all over Esposito….they ran ALL over YOU.
Fremer never, *ever* heard, detected, or otherwise stated he heard a "digital step" in Mobil Fidelity's purported "analog to vinyl" process. That's because Fremer -- and NO other "analog audiophile" can hear it or detect it. The purported purity/quality of analog to vinyl is a lie, as exposed in the MoFi scandal. And nothing Fremer or any other "analog audiophile" says will *ever* change this fact.
LMAO! Most Blue Note OG's sound absolute killer!!!
Sure but the NEW Tone Poets cut sound better. More faithful to the master tapes
@@mazzysmusic Tone Poets sound great but I wouldn't say they are better than the OG's, especially the Art Blakey's.
@@Jamko1970 better is subjective. The OGs sound great but the TPs sound more like the tapes because the highs and lows are not cut off like the original records
Check out one of the early reissues Little Feat Waiting For Columbus- sounds great and kicks the original WB issue.
@@mazzysmusic Absolutely 💯 Mazzy. Spot on.
👋🏼👋🏼👋🏼👋🏼
I know you've got some healthy room treatment in there, but wow that speaker is right up on the sidewall
my big Wilson XVXes are pretty much up against the wall. The sound is phenomenal. There are no hard and fast rules for this. It's to a great degree room dependent.
Have the first Press of DSOTM . English Press . What else do You need . ?
I don’t have that one but I do love my 30th anniversary pressing.
@@stevewestman7774 is that the Bernie Grundmann joint. .
I do know at least 3 people in their twenties who buy records and still don't have a turntable.
I need to start asking some twenty year olds. I’m really curious if some do own vinyl and not a turntable.
@@stevewestman7774 I don't know if it is that high of a percentage. But I think it is more than we think. They don't think like we do. They collect records and think that one day they will eventually get a turntable.
@@stevewestman7774 Oh, it’s certainly true. I guess some folk make purchases as an investment. But I do know for sure that at least a decade ago I started buying signed records from the merch tables after live performances. Long before I purchased a turntable. And I was in my late forties back then. It’s memorabilia that I enjoy to this day 😊
Fremer has a real problem with letting things go. 4 minutes in and he's repeating the same old MoFi gravy train stuff. Fremer also makes it sound like the Mazzy cleaning video was a drunken free for all. It was 3 people checking out an ultrasonic cleaner, talking about the results and enjoying the process. It wasn't meant to be a master class on cleaning records. In the 80's my Grandpa lost his mind when his beautiful music station switched formats. He was being phased out and he didn't like it. Same with Fremer. For better or worse he's not the voice of a new generation.
100% agree
What do you do besides criticize? Probably jeering off in your mother's basement!
@@analoguecity3454 Don't mistake criticism for frustration. I like Fremer. Less than I did years ago but I'm still a fan. His Analog Planet radio shows (WFMU) are IMO required listening. PS - I have my own basement for that.
being knowledgeable doesn’t mean you get to be a dick and call people ghetto. if his knowledge allows you to let that slide, that’s on you.
Yeah he’s a massive dbag. Not a fan at all.
If people want to stop flippers, stop buying from them.
Micheal's story is old. Thought this was old video...
maybe its just me, but Fremer seems to have an attitude more than usual. Really acts like he's not interested in being there, and that Steve is annoying him.
its not just you, Fremer is washed up and has become a grumpy curmudgeon
Fremer is a goose
That's because Steve is annoying.
😂😂😂 amazing to hear Fremer is still sore about the Washington Post article. I dropped a mildly critical comment on it and that set him off. And here he is, still whining, adding a frisson of racial stereotyping in the process. Lovely work!
A lot of the Springsteen stuff was mixed to pcm1600 digital (essentially the original 16 bit DAT...which was also used on a lot of the big budget albums of the late 70s and early 80s), so having them on vinyl in the first place is questionable...but to say the Springsteen albums never sounded good?! ...Bob Clearmountain mixed the hell out of those. Born in the USA wasn't a huge timeless hit because it sounded mediocre
Regarding the pcm 1600 digital, wasn't that just 1980's The River? Not sure, but I think everything up to the late 80's was recorded and mixed analog? Anyway, to your point about Born In the USA: music critic Robert Christgau's A+ Consumer Guide / Village Voice review at the time: "...the aural vibrancy of the thing reminds me like nothing in years that what teenagers loved about rock and roll wasn't that it was catchy or even vibrant but that it just plain sounded good."
@@about.the.music... no, Born in the USA and I think a few others were mixed to pcm (so many albums back then were so proud of their use of this technology that they'd mention it in the liner notes on the original vinyl).
@@voccsaycee30 yes, there certainly has been a lot of audiophile revision over the course of these past years and decades...
I'll have to dig into the mixing history of the Boss' catalog, but my understanding is that the recordings of the first 7 albums, at least, were to tape. And with Nebraska, of course, I can double down on that :)
What in the world did Mr. Fremer mean when he said "ghetto people", and why didn't you ask him?
Is MOFIGate still going on? lol
BTW Steve, you talk about listening to DSOTM high in collage, never did drugs but try listening to it on the way to a combat engagement on a Black Hawk, now that's a a real rush my friend.
Now that would be a real trip.
That sounds so cool, some nice combat engagement with music.
And then the black Hawk is hit by an RPG, while I listen to Miles Davis, but it's mastered from DSD so it ruins the experience!!!!
The army is not for everyone clearly.
@@Lasse3 Funny, you don't realize how close to home you hit. 3-Oct-1993, Mogadishu, 2 blackhawks downed, 18 KIA including my best friend, Msgt Gary Gordon...29 plus years later, never out of my thoughts, no music that day.
@@512bb I've seen that movie too you know, now stop playing soldier on the internet dude 😝
@@Lasse3 A spoiled punk you truly are are.
I will bet that this proposed settlement does NOT go through "as is" and the other 4 cases won't join in. The courts don't like these coupon schemes as a settlement.
Yes. I agree as well. The other lawyers will want in on $.
Seriously you seem like a really nice guy so I have to ask why you still bother giving Mr Fremer a platform, he completely derailed your interview which was extremely rude. I agree with other comments here, Mr Fremer can't let things go, please just shut up and if he's right then time will tell. Lastly you looked really, really uncomfortable by 7 minutes in. About the time I wanted to turn off. Mr Fremer is not a good guest for your channel.
Fremer just keeps yammering about the same old stories again and again and again. Yawn.
We all knows he gets free stuff , just by virtue of how much he bangs on about being talked about getting free stuff !
Mikey's been saying that the vinyl resurgence is "real" as long as Al Gore's been saying we're all going to die from global warming. He always has to defend the success of vinyl sales, someone has to. Like him or not, he has been all in from the beginning.
DSOTM - the only interesting bit is the new Atmos mix, and even then it wasn’t exactly a needed thing.
56:59 what the heck you guys! In this segment you’ve been disputing whether half of record buyers don’t own turntables; or whether this years sales increase was just 4%; well why did you leave out the main point in that article, which is the huge increase in the price of new records over this past couple years??? THAT was the main gist of the piece, which is whether record sales are starting to show that they’re overpriced for many people now!
Fremer is jealous someone else got the scoop.
I have the original 33 1/3 MOFI LP of Bridge Over Troubled Water and the Sundazed sounds better.
I find it a bit laughable when I read the non stop shots at MF when they don't have a clue or know any more then he doe's. I've known him for years & don't always agree with him, however to question his intellectual dishonesty proove's you're unreasonable bias towards him. I defy anyone to listen to record that sounds good or bad & say it's because it was cut digitally or they are the actual masters.
This Fremer guy seems a bit full of himself. Granted he knows a lot.
I guess we have been waiting for a stereo remix, best done by Steven Wilson, simply, only stereo with first vinyls as a reference - this new box is ridicuolus, and the price - piece of cr.. or sh.. - I do not need it - I got the Immersion version some years ago - enough - Animals proves that lots of sound is hidden / buried in the original mix, probably often due to the technology existing in those times - when I listen to S Wilson remixes I know it's close to early versions (f.e. Jethro Tull), it's fat, lively,, vocals are clear, the sound is much closer to the original first generation tapes, true sound of instruments, like it is also in the case of Beatles White Album done by G Martin - but he, on the other hand, manipulates too much, and I don't like it
Video done without Davis knowledge..wtf?
Fremer doesnt know that for sure. He is speculating.
"Ghetto People" were buying Blue Notes?
Weed goes better with vinyl! 😜