I wish you had put this out a week ago, I had to contact REL and they did indeed walk me through the process. They sound great by the way (stereo pair)
Hi all, I guess the question was slightly different (since I also own monos and Rel's). Note: All of the following is also for balanced power amplifiers. Rel recommends; If it's a stereo amplifier to connect red to right +, yellow to left + and leave out black if there is no hum. If there is a hum, You may ground the black to ground post or just to the chassis of the amplifier. In case of mono-blocks, Rel recommends not to use one subwoofer, but two. Twist red and yellow of the cable, connect it to + of the relevant mono-block, leave the black if there is no hum. Ground it to chassis if there is. The problem is connecting one sub-woofer to (two) mono-blocks, Rel discourages doing so. "I educated guess" Rel does not recommend this because either You would need to use additional single cable cable; e.g. running from + port of left mono-block towards right amplifier to be (hand) connected to the yellow of Rel cable, or strip the Rel cable, separate red and yellow cables for lengths, red goes to right + mono and yellow goes to the left +. Which would work under normal conditions, but is highly open to problems, first what to do in case of hum, i.e. which amp to connect the black cable to? Furthermore in such a case would one connect the chassis of two amplifiers (another cable going from left mono to right this time connecting chassis)? ( btw. I know most probably, naturally the two mono grounds are connected through ground of the power cables). Not to bear these risks, I understand Rel does not recommend using one sub for mono-block amplifiers. If client does and causes harm on any of their devices, the responsibility is on the client.
Additionally, monoblocks ara typically located near the speakers. Running cables from both locations to the sub creates other issues. Like you should not connect both amps ground speaker terminals to each other. Also REL is using a 3 wire cable so the ground connects and one hot connection go to one amp while for the other hot connection you cannot do with this standard cable but would need to extend a single wire not properly grond reference at the other side. Poor solution is just use mono as most mixes are still mono in the lower frequencies to enable turntables to work. Good solution use 2 subs. Or REL improve their input circuit for a one sub solution
The issue here is that if your monoblocks are far apart (which mine are), it is not possible to connect to both the monoblocks with the high level cable provided. The 3 cable split (red, black and yellow) is not long enough to connect them to the respective amp speaker binding posts. So I think there are 3 options: 1) get a bespoke sub high level cable with extra long split 2) stack the monoblocks so the respective amp speaker binding posts are close together 3) get a pair of sub and each sub is paired to respective monoblocks. Am I missing any other way? Of course if there is a sub out on the preamp, you can connect it too but this will be a low level pass
Yes, so they throw in cheap parts because that's what 99 percent of manufacturers do. A modele costs like 30 dollars. They can make a different version and make it a hundred bucks more. I'd say that's a win-win
Some of us like to cross-over the sub bass such that smaller bookshelf stereo speakers don’t have to struggle with those frequencies they can’t really reproduce well. From my experience, also stereo speakers can often play louder when they don’t have to struggle with the deeper bass. But audiophile line level or DSP cross-over filters aren’t so common sadly speaking. So I can understand Paul’s recommendation.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez Not many things apply for all users. So what? If I can get better audio quality from active cross-over reducing the power load on my stereo amp providing better dynamics and cleaner bass, why wouldn't I want it?
@@ThinkingBetter Many positive points for sure. However, shifting phase issues (or maybe pre-ringing), less bass sources (can be good or bad for cancelations) or more complexity can be relevant for some users. Compromises we have to make.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez an active cross-over filtering in the bass won’t have phase issues through a power amp as the output will be very minimally delayed, perhaps in the micro seconds, relative to the input. Yes, I can agree you will lose the bass output from those stereo speakers, which needs to be considered in the filtering configuration. On the other hand, spending less of the stereo amp power on the lowest bass free up more power to where those stereo speakers play well making the sound clearer and less muffled from my experience. From my experience this is true for my KEF LS50 and also my JBL 18ti (gym setup). I’m using a miniDSP Flex for the filtering with the subwoofer. It’s ok for my gym.
I had a REL subwoofer connected to a Luxman L-509x integrated amp, it was wired with the red and yellow sub wires to left and right positive speaker terminals, the black ground wire was left unused. I switched the Luxman out for an Accuphase E-4000 and connecting the sub the same way caused a hum in the sub. REL tech support had me connect the black ground wire to one of the negative speaker terminals - which solved the issue. Question does that mean the Luxman was a fully balanced differential amplifier and the Accuphase is not?
I've used a pair of Sumiko 10" subs with my m700 monoblocks for years and have been asked if my subs are working by people who say they can't hear any sound coming from the them. When set up correvtly you should not hear sound from a sub because it blends in and seems to pissadear. My original m700's have the balanced out put you speak of so I just added a so;lder lug under a case screw and use that as my ground and the red speaker out of the m700 as my signal
Paul, Please provide real details. REL does NOT show how to connect a single REL sub to a pair of mono blocks. They DO show connecting TWO subs to a pair of mono blocks. Of course, REL would have you buy two subs but if you have bought Aspen 10’s, well if I had unlimited funds I would have a pair of 30’s.
Those who makes real subs use 4 on mono subbs and 2 on stereo, idk if rel have that option, i have vincent 996mb driving tweeter an mid and one paradigm sub per side
REL does it the way they do it because that's how they do it. Same wacky reasoning as why they won't put level markings on the dials on some of their models, thus forcing owners to count the # of clicks those dials make, which believe me Mr. Hunter, in a multi sub setup is a total pain. No good reason at all, it's just how they do it.
Tried High Level input didn't like it Found it gain aggressive, hard to dial JLA cr-1 active crossover 2-Rel Carbon Specials 😊 Shunyata Research Python xlr's
He have multiple vid on it, btw he want you to use high level input on sub from speaker terminals, not rca👍 i use rca, but one day i will try high level, maby it works better.
I wish you had put this out a week ago, I had to contact REL and they did indeed walk me through the process. They sound great by the way (stereo pair)
Hi all,
I guess the question was slightly different (since I also own monos and Rel's).
Note: All of the following is also for balanced power amplifiers.
Rel recommends; If it's a stereo amplifier to connect red to right +, yellow to left + and leave out black if there is no hum. If there is a hum, You may ground the black to ground post or just to the chassis of the amplifier. In case of mono-blocks, Rel recommends not to use one subwoofer, but two. Twist red and yellow of the cable, connect it to + of the relevant mono-block, leave the black if there is no hum. Ground it to chassis if there is. The problem is connecting one sub-woofer to (two) mono-blocks, Rel discourages doing so. "I educated guess" Rel does not recommend this because either You would need to use additional single cable cable; e.g. running from + port of left mono-block towards right amplifier to be (hand) connected to the yellow of Rel cable, or strip the Rel cable, separate red and yellow cables for lengths, red goes to right + mono and yellow goes to the left +. Which would work under normal conditions, but is highly open to problems, first what to do in case of hum, i.e. which amp to connect the black cable to? Furthermore in such a case would one connect the chassis of two amplifiers (another cable going from left mono to right this time connecting chassis)? ( btw. I know most probably, naturally the two mono grounds are connected through ground of the power cables). Not to bear these risks, I understand Rel does not recommend using one sub for mono-block amplifiers. If client does and causes harm on any of their devices, the responsibility is on the client.
Additionally, monoblocks ara typically located near the speakers. Running cables from both locations to the sub creates other issues. Like you should not connect both amps ground speaker terminals to each other. Also REL is using a 3 wire cable so the ground connects and one hot connection go to one amp while for the other hot connection you cannot do with this standard cable but would need to extend a single wire not properly grond reference at the other side. Poor solution is just use mono as most mixes are still mono in the lower frequencies to enable turntables to work. Good solution use 2 subs. Or REL improve their input circuit for a one sub solution
Don't forget to mention that those RELs need a lot of very clean power!
He's talking about the active ones. They have their own amplifiers
@@xaviermontalban717 Veiled suggestion a piece of kit can work properly without AC mains regenerator? Philistine!
Paul, Please play the Martin Guitar!
The issue here is that if your monoblocks are far apart (which mine are), it is not possible to connect to both the monoblocks with the high level cable provided. The 3 cable split (red, black and yellow) is not long enough to connect them to the respective amp speaker binding posts. So I think there are 3 options:
1) get a bespoke sub high level cable with extra long split
2) stack the monoblocks so the respective amp speaker binding posts are close together
3) get a pair of sub and each sub is paired to respective monoblocks.
Am I missing any other way?
Of course if there is a sub out on the preamp, you can connect it too but this will be a low level pass
Balanced inputs cost more than RCA inputs, Paul.
Yes, so they throw in cheap parts because that's what 99 percent of manufacturers do. A modele costs like 30 dollars. They can make a different version and make it a hundred bucks more. I'd say that's a win-win
That's my system if you add Harbeth c7s and yes use the low level xls cable/bare wire
Hey Paul
When can we expect a PS Audio subwoofer?
He did say it was in the design stage. So it's coming probably by 2025
Some of us like to cross-over the sub bass such that smaller bookshelf stereo speakers don’t have to struggle with those frequencies they can’t really reproduce well. From my experience, also stereo speakers can often play louder when they don’t have to struggle with the deeper bass. But audiophile line level or DSP cross-over filters aren’t so common sadly speaking. So I can understand Paul’s recommendation.
Even if these filters on line-level were available, some users wouldn't use it.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez Not many things apply for all users. So what? If I can get better audio quality from active cross-over reducing the power load on my stereo amp providing better dynamics and cleaner bass, why wouldn't I want it?
@@ThinkingBetter Many positive points for sure. However, shifting phase issues (or maybe pre-ringing), less bass sources (can be good or bad for cancelations) or more complexity can be relevant for some users. Compromises we have to make.
@@Jorge-Fernandez-Lopez an active cross-over filtering in the bass won’t have phase issues through a power amp as the output will be very minimally delayed, perhaps in the micro seconds, relative to the input. Yes, I can agree you will lose the bass output from those stereo speakers, which needs to be considered in the filtering configuration. On the other hand, spending less of the stereo amp power on the lowest bass free up more power to where those stereo speakers play well making the sound clearer and less muffled from my experience. From my experience this is true for my KEF LS50 and also my JBL 18ti (gym setup). I’m using a miniDSP Flex for the filtering with the subwoofer. It’s ok for my gym.
@@ThinkingBetter A lot more positive points than negative. Good for us.
I just had this exact question :)
I had a REL subwoofer connected to a Luxman L-509x integrated amp, it was wired with the red and yellow sub wires to left and right positive speaker terminals, the black ground wire was left unused. I switched the Luxman out for an Accuphase E-4000 and connecting the sub the same way caused a hum in the sub. REL tech support had me connect the black ground wire to one of the negative speaker terminals - which solved the issue. Question does that mean the Luxman was a fully balanced differential amplifier and the Accuphase is not?
I've used a pair of Sumiko 10" subs with my m700 monoblocks for years and have been asked if my subs are working by people who say they can't hear any sound coming from the them. When set up correvtly you should not hear sound from a sub because it blends in and seems to pissadear.
My original m700's have the balanced out put you speak of so I just added a so;lder lug under a case screw and use that as my ground and the red speaker out of the m700 as my signal
Paul, Please provide real details. REL does NOT show how to connect a single REL sub to a pair of mono blocks. They DO show connecting TWO subs to a pair of mono blocks. Of course, REL would have you buy two subs but if you have bought Aspen 10’s, well if I had unlimited funds I would have a pair of 30’s.
Excellent
i was expecting another answer, if the question was about one subwoofer and they got two monoblocks. but i think rel have four high level inputs?
Those who makes real subs use 4 on mono subbs and 2 on stereo, idk if rel have that option, i have vincent 996mb driving tweeter an mid and one paradigm sub per side
REL does it the way they do it because that's how they do it. Same wacky reasoning as why they won't put level markings on the dials on some of their models, thus forcing owners to count the # of clicks those dials make, which believe me Mr. Hunter, in a multi sub setup is a total pain. No good reason at all, it's just how they do it.
Tried High Level input didn't like it
Found it gain aggressive, hard to dial
JLA cr-1 active crossover
2-Rel Carbon Specials 😊
Shunyata Research Python xlr's
there is no need for balanced connections and electronics in home audio.. balanced was invented for pro audio and long distance cables.
So all that fluffing and explaining and the end answer is "go to REL's website". 😂 If you do it all the time why couldn't you just say how you do it?
He have multiple vid on it, btw he want you to use high level input on sub from speaker terminals, not rca👍 i use rca, but one day i will try high level, maby it works better.
😅
what a shame to talk about subs in stereo systems.
First
ua-cam.com/video/cH8iv4n2kco/v-deo.html