Thanks for the great and very helpful review! A few notes from the dev team: 1. When Alex moved ..Alex miniature (LOL ...indeed it's the name of the Defender hero :D ) his first step passed adjacent to Aries. As a game rule, when a hero step nearby a Zodiac boss the movement ends. 2. In our development build of the game, we already implemented the "revive" feature as a contextual action becoming available once adjacent to a hero who is KO. Up to the players to decide whether and when is strategic to dedicate a turn to revive another team member instead of attacking the Zodiac. 3. We listened to Alex suggestion and we'll implement an option in the game App settings where expert players may decide to speed up and/or skip some map animations, battle logs and "tap" requested during the game. 4. Zodiac's status (like: stunned, dazed, enraged,...) are described in details by tapping on their icon near the Zodiac portrait on the MainDevice.
Great video Alex! So finally took the time to watch this now that my own review is up and I find it interesting that we both mentioned information retention once that physical action of doing certain things is helps you realize the mechanics at play. I didn't think of this until I heard you voice the same issue I had. I wonder if that "information" button could be enhanced (or some other system) to list all rules that affected that turn. So when your movement stopped you'd see on the timeline or on the screen or whatever the rule popup stating movement stops when adjacent to the boss. Similarly and preemptively when it's your movement phase you could quickly see all rules pertaining to movement with that button press. Bad Karmas is pretty straight forward. Future games will be much more advanced and I think this would be a great feature to add. The nice thing is...they can add it. No need to ship us this, hear our feedback then ship us a 1.5 to enhance it :D As for, I only play it because it's a board game - agreed. I had to self reflect on this some myself and I think it's highly dependent on why we play board games, where everyone is different in that regard. While Bad Karmas is a bit overly simple, that also keeps you not focusing on the app more than a few seconds at a time to tap once or maybe twice. If your sessions were like mine, the rest of your time was spent talking to your friends/family, joking about how the healer wasn't healing you and too focused on DPS, who should move the boss into the light stream, etc. Just like any other actual board game. That's why I play them. It reminded me of old multiplayer games from Golden Ax to Goldeneye with couch co-op. Sure we can play things digitally together, but it's just not the same. Once I had that memory of my brother and me on the couch in our home growing up or my buddy and me at the arcade as kids I realized why I still had fun and why this being a board game was still important, at least to me :) So even if it's just movement and a die roll on the table, it gets us around a table together and I value anything that helps me do that.
As stated in the KS draft page, who pledges The Bad Karmas at the Saga-level or higher will get a 10% off their next three pledges in future Teburu campaigns. On top of that they will get the Teburu Founder Member acknowledgement that will grant them a unique role on the official Teburu discord channel, the opportunity to receive and playtest upcoming games and DLC before anyone else, and the priority access in the SDK waiting list.
For me, the issues with these types of "hybrid" systems is that it looks like it sacrifices overall for attempting to do both sides well. I'd much prefer just a good companion app to help with management but still have it physical experience as a whole. If I wanted to have a digital game I'll go play a video game. That being said I still think it's a great idea and there will definitely be people this is great for! Just not for me or my group that's all. I do agree Sword and Sorcery will be super interesting to see how that turns out because I had the same issues with that game. If this can streamline stuff and make it easier to get into that'll be great for groups with maybe either kids or for people who just aren't into more fiddly things.
"I'd much prefer just a good companion app to help with management but still have it physical experience as a whole. If I wanted to have a digital game I'll go play a video game." Agree. They're offering a Cthulhu one now and I wanted to see others thoughts on this because I'm pretty much out the same opinion you are. While interesting, I think I'll skip the KS.
So we have been having the why not a video game instead and to me it comes down to a couple of things If you are sitting down to do something with friends you can set this out on the table with a tablet and everyone has a phone and you are good to go. it's easier to get people to give a board game a chance then sitting down on a couch and looking at a TV. If this was a video game I think you would lose the Interactive group dynamic. I think having the physical presence adds something that people can look at in real space and wrap thier head around placement and movement easier then if it were a video game. For kids and people that don't play video games on the regular I ternallizing movement mechanics and spacing may be a skill that is out of thier reach. Where as if it can me touched and you can count it may be easier to grasp. And finally like you said if this were a video would I play it... maybe but as a board game I will 100% be backing this and giving it a shot it's new it's different and I think this system has so much potential for the future. And let's be honest as gloomhaven digital shows us any board game can be a video game and probably any video game could be a board game
I'm certainly interested, but it will depend on price point and what other games they have in the pipeline. It's not worth getting a system if there's only one game I want to play. I really do like how easy it is to manage your game, and will likely make it simpler to get non board gaming people into playing as the hand management and character movement is streamlined. I suppose I'm cautiously optimistic about this.
@@that1dude66 that was the case when it released a couple of months ago. Around 200 USD for Teburu + The Bad Karmas. They added a new pledge level based on feedback later and that one I'd around 120 USD, but it's for the Teburu only, without the game.
@Alex - I'm curious... do you also have experience with the upcoming Endarth: Covenant on the Dybo system? (well, "upcoming" as in that it's been in development for quite some time now) - I really wonder how Teburu compares to Dybo
I'm sure there's some interesting and unique things that a system like this can provide but I'm not really compelled by it currently. I'm definitely not anti-app but, as you said, at some point I might as well play a digital only version. For BKCotZ, I can't see any reason I wouldn't rather play it as a video game if playing solo. I could maybe see a reason to play it with the board for multi-player if you find sitting around the table with friends more interesting than sitting around the TV to play. However, that also limits your ability to play with others since they have to be physically present as opposed to anywhere on-line. I think there's a role for app/digitally assisted board games (e.g. I have Mansions of Madness and Alchemists) but based on just this early look, it feels like BKCotZ is more a "board-assisted" video game than an app-assisted board game...
@@baysidejr Sure, but at that point you are just playing a video game (or may as well be). It just seems like the digital side of it has gone so far that there is effectively no reason for the board/physical components to be used. And that's especially true if you're playing solo. Just my first impressions and opinion based on the video. Hopefully there's more to it than what I see so far.
You have to have an electronic console AND download yet another app to your phone? Why can't the console do it all? I believe this would also keep you from making house riules for a particular game.
Sounds like we are being asked to pay for Tenebru 1.2. The game seems ok but having to buy another battle mat seems redundant since they have not pushed what this system can do. I prefer what FFG did with Desecent over this system. Best of luck though.
I'm not sure if you ever found the answer for yourself, but having just discovered this game and system, I was of a similar mindset: why not just make a video game? And similar to you, I probably wouldn't play it if it were a video game, but the answer to me is simple: it's not interesting enough as a video game. There's no story. It's just a simplistic beat-em-up. It basically needed to be extremely simple to test out this new platform, but because of that it's going to just end up a gimicky device that cost me hundreds of dollars and just sits at the bottom of a closet forever. When I first saw this, I thought wow cool! But after the novelty wears off, and it wears off rather quickly, all I can think about is how much better this would be as 100% digital. And then how much better it would be if there was more to the game than to just kill a boss. And after creating a story and immersive world, I've basically just created an RPG. And the kicker: it would have a much lower price.
It just doesn't do it for me, this app is just a replacement for a card AI deck and player boards with abilities. Which brings me to my question. Why is in necessary? If I am going to have an equal amount of enjoyment with out it, I don't see the reason to get this game, which is probably going to be more expensive cause of the technology included. Like If I wanted to get a Board game experience in a vid game I would just play one of the many on my Pc, like Armello, Slay the Spire, Monster Train. All of which give you the fully interactive experience like this but cost at the most 30$.
I agree 100% with you. To me, this should just have been a video game. I can imagine the frustration after playing for an hour then having the device not correctly detect the movement of my mini and thus take the game down a different path than what it was supposed to do, and ruin the game.
This seems really cool, but not quite as intriguing with unpainted minis, at least until the day comes when I actually “git gud” at painting. Also, if it had an intellectual property attached that I really like-namely Transformers, Getter Robo, Gundam, Super Robot Wars, etc., then I’d be really sweating. 🥵
I don't like app based board games or even app assisted games not only is support in the future questionable but also I want that off line expierience without apps, phones etc.
Thanks for the great and very helpful review!
A few notes from the dev team:
1. When Alex moved ..Alex miniature (LOL ...indeed it's the name of the Defender hero :D ) his first step passed adjacent to Aries. As a game rule, when a hero step nearby a Zodiac boss the movement ends.
2. In our development build of the game, we already implemented the "revive" feature as a contextual action becoming available once adjacent to a hero who is KO. Up to the players to decide whether and when is strategic to dedicate a turn to revive another team member instead of attacking the Zodiac.
3. We listened to Alex suggestion and we'll implement an option in the game App settings where expert players may decide to speed up and/or skip some map animations, battle logs and "tap" requested during the game.
4. Zodiac's status (like: stunned, dazed, enraged,...) are described in details by tapping on their icon near the Zodiac portrait on the MainDevice.
What I'm keen to learn more about Teburu is the multiplayer aspect. Being able to have a board that each player has at home that you can play
Yes, it certainly is an interesting concept but not one I got a chance to test.
Great video Alex! So finally took the time to watch this now that my own review is up and I find it interesting that we both mentioned information retention once that physical action of doing certain things is helps you realize the mechanics at play.
I didn't think of this until I heard you voice the same issue I had. I wonder if that "information" button could be enhanced (or some other system) to list all rules that affected that turn. So when your movement stopped you'd see on the timeline or on the screen or whatever the rule popup stating movement stops when adjacent to the boss. Similarly and preemptively when it's your movement phase you could quickly see all rules pertaining to movement with that button press.
Bad Karmas is pretty straight forward. Future games will be much more advanced and I think this would be a great feature to add. The nice thing is...they can add it. No need to ship us this, hear our feedback then ship us a 1.5 to enhance it :D
As for, I only play it because it's a board game - agreed. I had to self reflect on this some myself and I think it's highly dependent on why we play board games, where everyone is different in that regard.
While Bad Karmas is a bit overly simple, that also keeps you not focusing on the app more than a few seconds at a time to tap once or maybe twice. If your sessions were like mine, the rest of your time was spent talking to your friends/family, joking about how the healer wasn't healing you and too focused on DPS, who should move the boss into the light stream, etc. Just like any other actual board game.
That's why I play them. It reminded me of old multiplayer games from Golden Ax to Goldeneye with couch co-op. Sure we can play things digitally together, but it's just not the same. Once I had that memory of my brother and me on the couch in our home growing up or my buddy and me at the arcade as kids I realized why I still had fun and why this being a board game was still important, at least to me :) So even if it's just movement and a die roll on the table, it gets us around a table together and I value anything that helps me do that.
Thanks for the review. I'm excited by what Teburu has to offer, but maybe I should wait for a future Kickstarter that includes Swords and Sorcery.
As stated in the KS draft page, who pledges The Bad Karmas at the Saga-level or higher will get a 10% off their next three pledges in future Teburu campaigns.
On top of that they will get the Teburu Founder Member acknowledgement that will grant them a unique role on the official Teburu discord channel, the opportunity to receive and playtest upcoming games and DLC before anyone else, and the priority access in the SDK waiting list.
@@davidegarofalo8439 Thanks for the info - that's good to know.
For me, the issues with these types of "hybrid" systems is that it looks like it sacrifices overall for attempting to do both sides well. I'd much prefer just a good companion app to help with management but still have it physical experience as a whole. If I wanted to have a digital game I'll go play a video game.
That being said I still think it's a great idea and there will definitely be people this is great for! Just not for me or my group that's all. I do agree Sword and Sorcery will be super interesting to see how that turns out because I had the same issues with that game. If this can streamline stuff and make it easier to get into that'll be great for groups with maybe either kids or for people who just aren't into more fiddly things.
"I'd much prefer just a good companion app to help with management but still have it physical experience as a whole. If I wanted to have a digital game I'll go play a video game."
Agree. They're offering a Cthulhu one now and I wanted to see others thoughts on this because I'm pretty much out the same opinion you are. While interesting, I think I'll skip the KS.
So we have been having the why not a video game instead and to me it comes down to a couple of things If you are sitting down to do something with friends you can set this out on the table with a tablet and everyone has a phone and you are good to go. it's easier to get people to give a board game a chance then sitting down on a couch and looking at a TV. If this was a video game I think you would lose the Interactive group dynamic. I think having the physical presence adds something that people can look at in real space and wrap thier head around placement and movement easier then if it were a video game. For kids and people that don't play video games on the regular I ternallizing movement mechanics and spacing may be a skill that is out of thier reach. Where as if it can me touched and you can count it may be easier to grasp. And finally like you said if this were a video would I play it... maybe but as a board game I will 100% be backing this and giving it a shot it's new it's different and I think this system has so much potential for the future.
And let's be honest as gloomhaven digital shows us any board game can be a video game and probably any video game could be a board game
You nailed it. Being with friends and looking together at the board and at eachother, discussing and having fun. That's the key.
I'm certainly interested, but it will depend on price point and what other games they have in the pipeline. It's not worth getting a system if there's only one game I want to play. I really do like how easy it is to manage your game, and will likely make it simpler to get non board gaming people into playing as the hand management and character movement is streamlined. I suppose I'm cautiously optimistic about this.
It'll be $200 for the Teburu + The Bad Karmas, AFAIK
@@facug21 really? I thought in their announcement video they said they are making this with a $100 (USD) price point
@@that1dude66 that was the case when it released a couple of months ago. Around 200 USD for Teburu + The Bad Karmas. They added a new pledge level based on feedback later and that one I'd around 120 USD, but it's for the Teburu only, without the game.
And the winner will be... Price point
Lol fair :)
Thanks interesting game idea and mechanics looks like part of of the future at least
Oh i am so interested in this project 👍👍👍
@Alex - I'm curious... do you also have experience with the upcoming Endarth: Covenant on the Dybo system? (well, "upcoming" as in that it's been in development for quite some time now) - I really wonder how Teburu compares to Dybo
GREAT REVIEW! THANKS
I'm sure there's some interesting and unique things that a system like this can provide but I'm not really compelled by it currently. I'm definitely not anti-app but, as you said, at some point I might as well play a digital only version. For BKCotZ, I can't see any reason I wouldn't rather play it as a video game if playing solo. I could maybe see a reason to play it with the board for multi-player if you find sitting around the table with friends more interesting than sitting around the TV to play. However, that also limits your ability to play with others since they have to be physically present as opposed to anywhere on-line.
I think there's a role for app/digitally assisted board games (e.g. I have Mansions of Madness and Alchemists) but based on just this early look, it feels like BKCotZ is more a "board-assisted" video game than an app-assisted board game...
@@baysidejr Sure, but at that point you are just playing a video game (or may as well be). It just seems like the digital side of it has gone so far that there is effectively no reason for the board/physical components to be used. And that's especially true if you're playing solo. Just my first impressions and opinion based on the video. Hopefully there's more to it than what I see so far.
You have to have an electronic console AND download yet another app to your phone? Why can't the console do it all? I believe this would also keep you from making house riules for a particular game.
been waiting on this a while
Sounds like we are being asked to pay for Tenebru 1.2. The game seems ok but having to buy another battle mat seems redundant since they have not pushed what this system can do. I prefer what FFG did with Desecent over this system. Best of luck though.
I'm not sure if you ever found the answer for yourself, but having just discovered this game and system, I was of a similar mindset: why not just make a video game? And similar to you, I probably wouldn't play it if it were a video game, but the answer to me is simple: it's not interesting enough as a video game. There's no story. It's just a simplistic beat-em-up. It basically needed to be extremely simple to test out this new platform, but because of that it's going to just end up a gimicky device that cost me hundreds of dollars and just sits at the bottom of a closet forever. When I first saw this, I thought wow cool! But after the novelty wears off, and it wears off rather quickly, all I can think about is how much better this would be as 100% digital. And then how much better it would be if there was more to the game than to just kill a boss. And after creating a story and immersive world, I've basically just created an RPG. And the kicker: it would have a much lower price.
It just doesn't do it for me, this app is just a replacement for a card AI deck and player boards with abilities. Which brings me to my question. Why is in necessary? If I am going to have an equal amount of enjoyment with out it, I don't see the reason to get this game, which is probably going to be more expensive cause of the technology included. Like If I wanted to get a Board game experience in a vid game I would just play one of the many on my Pc, like Armello, Slay the Spire, Monster Train. All of which give you the fully interactive experience like this but cost at the most 30$.
I agree 100% with you. To me, this should just have been a video game. I can imagine the frustration after playing for an hour then having the device not correctly detect the movement of my mini and thus take the game down a different path than what it was supposed to do, and ruin the game.
This seems really cool, but not quite as intriguing with unpainted minis, at least until the day comes when I actually “git gud” at painting.
Also, if it had an intellectual property attached that I really like-namely Transformers, Getter Robo, Gundam, Super Robot Wars, etc., then I’d be really sweating. 🥵
I don't like app based board games or even app assisted games not only is support in the future questionable but also I want that off line expierience without apps, phones etc.
Same.
I appreciate your review on this, but for now this game and system is a hard pass for me! Thanks for saving me time/money :)
Happy to help :)
Board game console, for me, is so wrong on so many levels. Kudos for trying it.
Hoping at console launch there’s more than just one game…