@@boxerfencer yep. Hebrew is indeed a dialect of the Canaanite language.
22 дні тому+2
@@Ελκίον As well as Phoenician! Hebrew (Hebrew alphabet: עִבְרִית, ʿĪvrīt, pronounced [ʔivˈʁit] or [ʕivˈrit] ; Samaritan script: Îbrit) is a Northwest Semitic language within the Afroasiatic language family. A regional dialect of the Canaanite languages, it was natively spoken by the Israelites and remained in regular use as a first language until after 200 CE and as the liturgical language of Judaism (since the Second Temple period) and Samaritanism. The language was revived as a spoken language in the 19th century, and is the only successful large-scale example of linguistic revival. It is the only Canaanite language, as well as one of only two Northwest Semitic languages, with the other being Aramaic, still spoken today.
It would be interesting if the ancient Phoenician language were to be reconstructed and even used again. As you said, Hebrew was revived in the twentieth century, but at least there existed the Hebrew Bible, a major collection of literature. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, there isn't any significant ancient Phoenician (or Punic) literature surviving to this day though. Having said that, there is a language used in Lebanon that is dying that could be reasonably revived if desired- Syriac. But I am not aware of any major efforts to revive the use of the language outside of liturgical contexts. What do you think about a revival of Syriac?
Syriac is already being taught within the Maronite church specifically. I think it's already been completely revived since we have loads of manuscripts and an entire bible written in Syriac, as well as some literature. I would love to see schools teaching Syriac or a dialect of Syriac (Nabatean Aramaic or Galilean Aramaic) for instance. That would be super interesting.
@@Patrick.Khoury Yes, you're right, that there is a lot of literature written in Syriac, like the Peshitta translation of the Bible. I know some Syriac words from growing up in the Maronite Church, but I can't actually speak anything, or read the script, and no one else I know can either (but I know there are a few, small, isolated villages in Syria that use it, and there are attempts to revive it in Maronite villages in northern Israel). I had read that the last generation who learned Syriac was in the time of Kahlil Gibran, but I would definitely say it's an endangered language.
@@markcutolo2123 Assyrian Christians already speak their dialects for millennia,, I don't know the specific classification in terms of Semitic languages but they have the eastern and western dialects.
@@Patrick.Khoury Indeed, Assyrian Christians already speak their dialects for millennia,, I don't know the specific classification in terms of Semitic languages but they have the eastern and western dialects. As for Galilean Aramaic, an Italian-American scholar has started lessons on his channel but stopped for many years. The other day he said he was thinking of resuming that project but so far he hasn't uploaded any new lessons, unfortunately. I hope he doesn't give it up though.
Resucitar el fenicio es en realidad un proceso de inventar un nuevo idioma inspirado en lo que conocemos del fenicio, nunca se correspondería a la lengua fenicia que se habló históricamente, sino que sería una nueva lengua inspirada en la lengua fenicia. Al no existir ningún movimiento sociocultural o político que lo promueva es prácticamente imposible que algo así suceda. Si existiera un impulso que encontrara esto útil sin lugar a dudas se llevaría a cabo, tenemos el indonesio, el hebreo, el euskera batua, lenguas que en cierto modo no dejan de ser un "construcciones lingüísticas" para que un idioma tenga hablantes solo se necesita gente que desee hablarlo y usarlo. Un ejercicio intelectual interesante sería usar una Inteligencia Artificial para reconstruir ese idioma y darle vida. Debería haber una iniciativa de hacer aprender a la IA todas las lenguas existentes en peligro de extinción para preservarlas.
Claro, revivir el fenicio suena un poco loco, ¿no? Al final, lo que saldría sería una lengua nueva (conlang), no la de antes, que ya se perdió con el tiempo.
Resurrecting Phoenician as an intellectual and historical experiment for study would be an interesting exercise. As for any popular use, it would not be particularly relevant. Once Lebanese have mastered Lebanese Arabic, Modern Standard Arabic, French and English, they truly have learnt enough languages. One last thing, the Phoenician "alphabet" was an abjad. Phoenician script did not become an alphabet until the Greeks adopted it and adapted some of the characters to use for vowels.
Phoenician was very similar to Hebrew and if it'd be revived then the Lebanese would be able to understand the Israelis. Of course I hope that when this happens there already will be peace between the Israelis and Palestinians. Would be pretty cool and tbh I think all the peoples of the Middle East should have good relations.
@@gamermapper Well...Isn't Arabic also pretty similar to Hebrew? I obviously don't speak Phoenician, but I doubt it'd be mutually intelligible with modern Hebrew any more than Arabic.
@ColasTeam Phoenician was almost fully mutually intelligible with Hebrew, including Mishnaic Hebrew, Arabic was never mutually intelligible with Hebrew, it is of course a related language and quite similar at times but not close enough to understand.
@@ColasTeamas a Hebrew speaker, I can sometimes understand sentences and words in Arabic just because it's similier, But any reconstruction of phoenician I ever heard is just straight up understandable to me
@@bernardcornellisvanmeijere4375 That's very interesting! I knew Arabic and Hebrew weren't really mutually intelligible, but I assumed Phoenician would also not be.
You're wrong on not knowing the vowels and the consonants. There is Ugaritic and there are reconstructions of ancient Hebrew. There are also transcriptions of ancient Hebrew. There are also other Canaanite texts.
@arendomtemm9255 Modern Hebrew is a descendant of Biblical Hebrew. But Biblical Hebrew is the result of a complex process of linguistic developments during the Biblical time period, as well as the process of transmission. In order to get to an approximation of Phoenician, you need to first reverse engineer the linguistic processes in Biblical Hebrew in order to arrive a Ancient Hebrew. Then you need to do linguistic comparisons. This is very possible. These are well studied languages.
@@jaymylotto8134 I think it's been done. There's a Classical Biblical Hebrew, which is the language of Reigns (Samuel/Kings); that's been extended to several psalms. There's Late B.H. which is probably the Temple dialect, in Chronicles and Ezra-Nehemiah. The ancient dialect is probably that in songs like Deborah's, might crop up in other psalms too.
Unlike Phoenician and Hebrew, Aramaic is NOT a Canaanite language. Along with Canaanite languages, it's part of the northwest branch of Semitic languages. Looking at these languages, it's obvious that Phoenician is much closer to Hebrew than it is to Aramaic.
The Lebanese largely being descendants of the Phoenicians, are too practical to want to revive the Phoenician language. Also considering that many elements of the Phoenician language have already integrated seamlessly into modern Lebanese life, through place names, linguistic influences etc.
Mulak/Owner:King Using Late phoenician and Punic Orthography Melok / Melk / Mîlk Kingdom/Ownership: Maluk Using Late phoenician and Punic Orthography Molek / Molk / Mulk House : Bet Bayt / Biyt -> Bet To Wander: Rūd Rawad ( To wander) -> Rūd Ruwad ( Wanderer) - Rewod / Merūd Rawud (Wandered/Strolled) -> Rowed / Metrūd To bless: Barak Punic / Late phoenician: birok Blessed: Baruk Punic / Late phoenician: Borek Blesser: Burak Punic / Late phoenician: Berok Grammar rules found in other canaanite languages + latin / greek orthography of phoenician text with vowels helped me reconstruct fully the phoenician conjugation system, from infinitive to passive participle to active participle which were shown here. As well as Verbal nouns using suffixing conjugations (7adashūt "New" in the same sense as arabic 7adathiya, while 7adusht -> 7odesht is the same sense as arabic "7aditha" this word 7odesht sometimes misinterpreted as "7adasht" is where we get Qart 7odesht from, also known as Carthage in english.)
@@tyrone2127 its somewhat possible the sheen might've become a śeen or even a seen, but we cant be so sure. This theory is based mostly off of greek and latin transliterations which didnt have a š. I dont see any reason why it'd merge though. However its very possible that like samaritan, the 7et sound became silent. And like aramaic, taw became representative of "th" sound.
Hello The Phoenicians are my ancestors, my identity and my history. My primary objective is to order the letters necessary for their introduction into writing and then gradually into the Lebanese dialect. We would need the following tools: 1- the letters of the alphabet that are already in our possession thanks to modern archaeology. The work of Abbot Giteaux who compared the bilingual Greco-Phoenician inscriptions mentioned on the walls of the temples in Malta, managed to decipher the meaning of a good majority of them. Furthermore there are other ancient temples on the island of Cyprus and in Israel and even trilingual ones in Sardinia 2- concerning some letters whose meaning has not yet been elucidated, I suggest will be placed according to phonetics. I is already written and ready on sheets of paper 3- transcribe these letters on a CD acting as a translator of the three main languages used in Lebanon (English, French and Arabic) 4- Considering myself seasoned in the history of my ancestors the Phoenicians, therefore necessarily from the Middle East and Mesopotamia, I do not share your historical approach regarding the Aramaic and others. Conclusion I am sending you just after some historical testimonies from which you could extract the ISBNs. Moreover the contemporary historian Sabatino Moscati in his work The Phoenicians offers us more than fifty pseudohieroglyphs dating from the middle of the seventeenth century BC, from which the Phoenicians were able to invent twenty-two letters. Are you ready for the adventure to restore our Identity ❤ starting with the letters of alphabet. I remind you politely what Atatürk Had done.
Lebanon should get back to its phoenician roots so it becomes unique again away from the arab influence that its been making it look like the rest of the arab world.
There are movements trying to revive ancient dead languages like Gaulish and Baltic Prussian for instance, I think it would be a precious endeavour but, as you said, the main drawback is the lack of known vowels, whereas languages like Coptic, for instance can provide some clue for the reconstruction of ancient Egyptian words in their hieroglyphs. The cultural value of a language is not in its practical uses but in the achievements of its culture and, above all, in itself, as a legitimate linguistic treasure!
It's worth reviving not just for Lebanese people but for north Africa also. I'm from Tunisia and I would love to learn it because our dialect is based on Tamazight which is inspired by Phoenician. You know that our arabic (north african) is different and a little difficult for arabic speakers because we still have words from anciant languages even the pronouciation. I think we should look to Tamazight not just Hebrew Arabic and Aramaaic for linguistics comparison with Phoenician, specially that we still have native speakers in Algeria and Marocco and a little Shiha in Tunisia. Thanks for the video ;)
In this book you'll find l'abbé Giteaux translation of the Phoenician Alphabet too. Historical research leads to the belief that Dabke dance belongs to the phoenicians Time of Lebanon. In his suspense novel, The Ethiopics,Heliodorus (3rd century AD) recounts his meeting with the Phoenicians at Delphi: "They then told me that they were Phoenicians from Tyre, traders by trade, and that they were going to Carthage of Libya with a cargo full of Indian and Ethiopian goods, and others from Phoenicia. For the moment , they celebrated this banquet in honor of Heracles Tyrian to celebrate the victory of this young man (they showed me a boy seated in front of me), who had won the crown in the fight and had proclaimed, among the Greeks, the success of the city of Tire [...] When I left them, they were still listening to the flutes and dancing; they were jumping, to the sound of an Assyrian (3Ashur) tune, played by wind instruments, at a rapid pace; sometimes they rose into the air with light leaps, sometimes they crouched low to the ground and whirled with their whole bodies like people possessed." french ISBN: 2-07-053456-1 Heliodorus. Les Ethiopiques, Translation by P. Grimal, Gallimard, La Pléiade, 1958
I believe Phoenician is practical and revivable. Using place names in canaan, phoenicia, and all across the colonial empires of the phoenician city states, alongside attested inscriptions, usage of established grammar rules to create verbal nouns or predict other roots and their meanings with the help of other nearby languages, and so forth and so on will help with reconstruction of phoenician. This task is a national endeavor many wouldn't hesitate to undergo. Knowing lebanon's troubling past, a common identity aids in sowing the seeds for unity and progress, and a common language solidifies this process for eons to come.
Very interesting. Im an Hebrew speaker who learns arabic in the last years. I felt like Arabic is similar to Hebrew but sims like phinician it's much closer
Much closer is an understatement. For all intents and purposes they're the same language. Go look up some Phoenician inscriptions, it's honestly easier to understand than some diasporic varieties of Hebrew
From an outsider perspective it seems to me that it's mainly Maronites in Lebanon who are into the Phonecian movement, while Sunnis are into Pan-Arabism and Shi'ites into Khomeinism and the Orthodox are.. I'm not really sure? So as long as these groups can be confidently predicted to fall within a particular worldview it would be difficult to revive Phonecian because it requires a nationwide interest and effort.
Reconstructed Phoenician is Egyptian lunar script, wherein the first 22 signs, themed on the 22 nomes (Upper Egypt), 22 units (cubit ruler), and 22 lunar stanzas (Leiden I350), of the 72 unit number-based hiero-signs of the equinox precession table (valued 1 to 90,000,000), became Phoenician letters. Phoenician, in short, is portable hieroglyphics.
Sure one can go through that exercise for fun. That said, we already have a native language that is a true inheritor of all those previous Semitic tongues. It’s not like Arabic as a language was a completely foreign element that appeared all of a sudden in the 7th century in the Levant and immediately wiped out all existing languages. Different arabic languages already existed in our region and there has been mutual influences with other Semitic languages, either in vocabulary or grammar or script. We can even find in Arabic today words that go back to Sumerian. And the Arabic language as it evolved in our region along the centuries has been further influenced by Levantines. Up till the 19th century, Levantine scholars added thousands of words to the Arabic language. Perhaps you can develop a video on that subject.
I am not generally a supporter of phoenicianism, generally i am not fond of most nationalistic ideas, but i find your arguments against the reviving of the Phoenician language quite lacking. First of all your analysis is extremely utilitarian. A language doesn't have to be widely used to be a legitimate language. Many languages are being revived right now for cultural and identitarian reasons. And here is the second problem. You fail to explain the context of phoenician revival. It has a lot in common with the revival of Hebrew as a language with native speakers. The only difference is that indeed as you said phoenicianists start with a lot less than the hebrew revival started.
What I consider the main point is that Phoenician has left essentially nothing behind. All those centuries at the top of the Mediterranean world and we don't have a single poem, a single song left. Not even a "handbook for the perfect trader". Every single papyrus has decomposed into oblivion.
In stead of reviving Phoenician as it was originally spoken, Lebanon should encourage the fusion of Arabic, Aramaic, French, and English, and then sparingly mix in archaic Phoenician as revived place-names, poetic alternative language (ie., poetically use a Phoenician-derived word for blue to emphasize the ancient and everlasting color of the sky), etc. into a new local creole called simply “Lebanese”. This will allow Lebanon to have its own unique language for national identity, while not erasing Lebanon’s evolving history.
The way i see it, the Israelis already revived Canaanite and therefore Phoenician. The Lebanese wouldnt have to revive Phoenician, since they could adapt modern Hebrew, but given recent events i doubt they'd have much desire to do so, and i wouldn't blame them. Ive thought reviving Levatine Aramaic might be more productive.
Why not? The Phoenician language must be revived again it is more important than the other languages we speak, and the Phoenicians are the ones who founded Lebanon and gave it this name, and the entire Phoenician civilization is present in Lebanon If someone tells us about the history of Lebanon, how will we answer him if we do not have its civilization? Therefore, the Lebanese state must revive the Phoenician language, civilization and its effects This is an essential step for Lebanon🇱🇧🛶💜
Lebanon has been and still a correction for its inherited identities as you may have said implicitly phonecian is a correction for the canaanite and early aramaic and it was a must at its time due the recivilization of these nomade ancestors Now the situation is a mixture of syriano Arabo judaic anarchists who ruined the region by their struggles if we can recivilize these we succeed in reviving our true culture and can call whatever namely Phoenican and Lebanon is the heart of the process
Also I don’t think we should revive Phoenician or any of the Canaanite languages for larger state building unless we decide to move towards a pan-Levantine state. That’s legit the only reason I could see for that, and even then, I think an Aramaic would be better for that if we want some sense of an “indigenous” language identity.
correction, sidon was pronouncer with ṣadē. Sidon was originally Ṣaydūn -> Ṣēdōn A combination of the word to hunt/fish in semitic Ṣayd which becomes ṢD in phoenician, knowing aya becomes ē in phoenician, thus becomes Ṣēd. When suffixed with the dimunitive/entitifying -ōn, it becomes Ṣēdōn. or Ṣedūn. This is also present in the name of lebanon itself. a combination of Lîban=White, and the suffix -ōn which indicates a place of or a dimunitive. Thus in phoenician, Lebanon, or LBNN would be Lîbanōn/Lîbanūn or Lîbnōn/Lîbnūn. the -ūn suffix becomes -ōn in later phoenician and punic.
yes, lets start with not calling it by a greek word, but by its actual name... canaanite. but the modern "phonecians" are ashamed of that name... canaan.
Phoenix =aarnaqa in Arabic or semitic I don't see a difference between aarnaquians and Phoenician Don't get into the blurry of not bringing close neighbor people language
Would very cool to see it revived, but unfortunately not too practical for the reasons mentioned in this video. The opportunity cost is probably too big, possibly even insurmountable.
Considering how similar modern Hebrew is to modern Arabic (not as closely related as Biblical Hebrew or the more contemporaneous proto-Hebrew were to other Canaanite dialects - including the one the Greeks knew as Phoenecian), you'd THINK it would be relatively easy. But the language of "kanan" (as the Carthaginians would probably have called it) was around for a long time - a millennium or so from, say, the early Iron Age through to the late Roman Republic - and undoubtedly changed over time at least as much as, say, today's Western European languages have changed since the Viking Age. And, as pointed out here, we just don't have that much of the language documented for any given time (let alone enough to track its evolution over time) and have nothing analogous to the "Rosetta stone") either.
@PeloquinDavid we do have Hebrew, a Canaanite dialect, brought back from the dead and modernized with Palestinian Arabic root words to meet contemporary demands. The work is already done.
@PeloquinDavid perhaps what modern Hebrew could be used for, is to create a firm fleshed out platform from which to start to work, and correct for some of the archaic remnants and native Semitic pronunciation that were discarded, because white Europeans couldn't emulate them. Sort of a where did modern Hebrew go wrong approach. Or another way may be to use biblical Hebrew as a starting point and entirely modernize it again, this time independently from that of Israeli Hebrew.
@boxerfencer Some of the problem is that even "Biblical" Hebrew is a rather late phenomenon, historically speaking: except for a few snipets of archaic text (the "Song of Deborah" is often mentioned), most of the Tanakh - including the Torah - dates from late Assyrian (the fall of Israel proper) to neoBabylonian times (the fall of Judah and the Babylonian exile) - hundreds of years after the heyday of the "Phoenecians" in the Levant and roughly the span of time that separates us from Middle English. Not an impossible task but one that requires a LOT of speculative assumptions, particularly in the absence of a big hoard of documents on clay tablets somewhere with "Phoenecian" texts translated into, say, Akkadian.
reviving phoenician, with our severely limited understanding, would be akin to inventing a new language. it would not be practical and likely not useful. reconstructing phoenician as an academical exercise could be interesting.
Hebrew has done the heavy lifting for you. After all, back in the day they would have been mutually intelligible dialects. It's time to unarabise the Levant. Build Lebanon with a revived language and unite your country into a prosperous and peaceful land.
As cool as it would be to revive Phoenician, I don't think that's going to happen. Not only not enough of it has been preserved to be revived, but there's no support for it: there isn't a living Phoenician identity to claim it back and put it to use like with Hebrew, not a political will to do it. So unfortunately it will remain a preserve of a few language nerds
Personally I would rather expand Neo-Hebrew and Neo-Aramaic speakers across the Levant. Neo-Hebrew is dang close to Phoenician as is. As well, I would like to see Late South Akkadian revived and spread as the main language of Eastern Syria and Iraq.
5:55 the jews NEVER stopped using Hebrew in the Long diaspora. We use Hebrew names, we read the Torah and other holy books in Hebrew etc, all that for the past over 2000 years.
Hey Patrick, really love your videos from Israel. Wish you and your family all the best. Would be cool if you guys revived Phoenician, then we could speak each respective language but understand each other despite that.
@@Patrick.KhouryI also was thinking about the question that you posed about the feasibility, and I think it should be possible. Hebrew is a good example, we do have the bible which is a great source material. I can assume the Judean and Israel canaanites spoke a similar dialect to Pheonicians and other nations around like Amonites, edomites, etc. so we can lean on this resources and apply it on Pheonician. Also languages change over time, so it can be branded as Neo Phoenician :) It doesn't have to be a perfect reconstruction but can be close enough to work imho.
@@Maurice-Navel Latin and ancient Greek are relatively easier to learn since they already had vowels inserted, unlike phoenician where you have to guess the vowels. This makes it very challenging.What we can do is infer the vowels through analogical work with Hebrew, its closest relative.
The Amoritic-Akkadian bi-lingual, the limited vowel notation in Ugaritic, and the latest work done on the cantilation marks found in Bible manuscripts actually show that Hebrew is very conservative with regards to pronounciation. Even the so called European pronounciation of modern Hebrew, is reflected largely in Talmudic remarks on bad pronounciation of Galileans. And the contractions found in the Bar Kokhba letters. If one would revive Phoenician using the latest data with regards to pronounciation it would basically be modern Hebrew. The biggest difference would be a more strict VSO word order. And I imagine that some loan words would be closer to the Mediterranean norm, like instead of "tɛ" for tea it would be"ṣay". Some Persian loans found In Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic would be replaced with Semitic reconstructions. Furthermore if Punic would also be used to add to the reconstructed Phoenician, the pronounciation of the zayn, would become /s/ instead of /z/. And more Greek and Latin loans would be added, compared to Aramaic and Hebrew. Once people start using the language, it will naturally be overwhelmed by Hebrew media (films, tv, etc), which speakers of reconstructed Phoenician will be able to understand with ease. And Reconstructed Phoenician will naturally become even more like Hebrew. I imagine that politically a Libanon that rediscovers its linguistic and cultural ties to Israel is not something that would be embraced by Iran and its proxy, nor would warm the hearts of pan-Arabists. Outside of maybe a Christian minority and possibly a minor subsection of the Druze support for such a thing (de-Arabization) isn't there politically. It's not a question of if it can be done. More so if there is enough support to do it.
Why try and adopt a language which has been dead for over 2,000 years. Especially when the Arabic language is so beautiful. From a Palestinian Christian who loves my Lebanese brothers!
The distinction between the semitic languages is an arbitrary things,.people at the time weren't aware that they spoke phonecian or hebrew or arabic, there was many ways of talking of some variant degrees of mutual intelgibility. So in my opninion, the ways of speaking at the time developped into the ways of speaking now to what we call the arabic dialects, so in some sense phonecians is still alive, it just changed and integrated into some form of what we call arabic dialects. Ps: the words that you mentioned (yad, bet, malik ..) are still used in arabic dialects from morocco to kowait.
I'm not sure. In the Bible there are mentions of Canaanite, Chaldean/Aramaic, and Judahite. Maybe not as rigid as current linguistic classification, but they seemed to be aware of other Semitic groups speaking distinct Semitic dialects, naming the tongue after the speakers.
Id be careful to legitimise Hebrew as a language distinct from Canaanite or Phoenician. Support for an independent jewish nation as the bible speaks to is severely lacking in terms of archeology. Also several scholars have pointed out torah judaism doesnt start till around the 3rd century and most of the bible itself is a Hellenic composition, as a sort of pious forgery, that retrospectively reimagines history as a nation building project centered around monolotry of yaweh. It's revisionist history, specifically the idea of identity as being diametrically opposed to Canaanite culture and religion. In actuality, we know the religious portrayal isnt true. We know historical Israelites were not monotheistic, nor monolotrous, but polytheistic. We also know the yaweh cult wasnt idiosyntratic to Israelites. One of the most significant inscriptions is the Mesha Stele, which was found in modern-day Jordan. It dates back to the 9th century BCE and mentions Yahweh in the context of Moabite religion and culture. Other archaeological evidence, such as pottery fragments and inscriptions, suggests that Yahweh was worshiped in various Canaanite cities, in addition to those in the "kingdoms" of Israel and Judah. Direct references to Yahweh in Canaanite religious texts are limited but exist, suggesting a unified religious spectrum, as opposed to Canaanite vs Israel and Judah. I suspect our modern idea of Israelites is largely fiction, barely more historical than Arthur and Merlin, or Robin Hood, and that the entire Levant was simply Phoenician city states, each with their own primary city cult, in addition to the worship of other gods.
Phoenician had only one single vowel, the _schwa_ ə. MLK was pronounced _mələk_ and YT was _yət_ etc. Source: my greatx112 grandpapa was Carthaginian. We called him _səbə_
Hi Here are my remarks: a) Izatawada inscription is the longest (KAI 26) and not Kilamuwa inscription (KAI 24). Almost double in characters. b) Grammar books exist for Phoenician with slight differences for some conjugation pronunciations. c) For verb/subject/object you have also subject/verb/object depending on dialects, periods, styles, ..... Interpretations books of some important inscriptions give the syntaxes. d) for pronunciations, even with the lack of vowels, technics based on cognate languages, greek, latin and neo punic may give some but not the whole thing. e) if a pizza with pineapple exists it means that there are people who love eating pizza with pineapple. f) for wifi and other modern words they can be used as is. Do not forget the existing of loanwords in Phoenician and other languages. g)Please do not forget that Phoenician is part of the heritage of Lebanese. 𐤉𐤌 𐤍𐤏𐤌 (Yom Na3im -Hello in Phoenician)
Hello The Phoenicians are my ancestors, my identity and my history. My primary objective is to order the letters necessary for their introduction into writing and then gradually into the Lebanese dialect. We would need the following tools: 1- the letters of the alphabet that are already in our possession thanks to modern archaeology. The work of Abbot Giteaux who compared the bilingual Greco-Phoenician inscriptions mentioned on the walls of the temples in Malta, managed to decipher the meaning of a good majority of them. Furthermore there are other ancient temples on the island of Cyprus and in Israel and even trilingual ones in Sardinia 2- concerning some letters whose meaning has not yet been elucidated, I suggest it will be placed according to phonetics. I is already written and ready on sheets of paper 3- transcribe these letters on a CD acting as a translator of the three main languages used in Lebanon (English, French and Arabic) 4- Considering myself seasoned in the history of my ancestors the Phoenicians, therefore necessarily from the Middle East and Mesopotamia, I do not share your historical approach regarding the Aramaic and others. Conclusion I am sending you just after some historical testimonies from which you could extract the ISBNs. Moreover the contemporary historian Sabatino Moscati in his work The Phoenicians ISBN 3.7144.23.78.7 offers us more than fifty pseudo hieroglyphs dating from the middle of the seventeenth century BC, from which the Phoenicians were able to invent twenty-two letters. Are you ready for the adventure to restore our Identity ❤ starting with the letters of the alphabet. I remind you politely what Atatürk Had done.
Yes , Phoenician is really worth reviving .
@@ZainabKhalid16 That would be phenomenal. Let's do it!
As I understand it, Hebrew is just a Canaanite dialect, but the same language. In fact, its hard to distinguish Hebrew from Canaanite.
@@boxerfencer yep. Hebrew is indeed a dialect of the Canaanite language.
@@Ελκίον As well as Phoenician! Hebrew (Hebrew alphabet: עִבְרִית, ʿĪvrīt, pronounced [ʔivˈʁit] or [ʕivˈrit] ; Samaritan script: Îbrit) is a Northwest Semitic language within the Afroasiatic language family. A regional dialect of the Canaanite languages, it was natively spoken by the Israelites and remained in regular use as a first language until after 200 CE and as the liturgical language of Judaism (since the Second Temple period) and Samaritanism. The language was revived as a spoken language in the 19th century, and is the only successful large-scale example of linguistic revival. It is the only Canaanite language, as well as one of only two Northwest Semitic languages, with the other being Aramaic, still spoken today.
Hebrew is sickening to the Phoenician ear... as is Persian.
It would be interesting if the ancient Phoenician language were to be reconstructed and even used again. As you said, Hebrew was revived in the twentieth century, but at least there existed the Hebrew Bible, a major collection of literature. Unfortunately, as you mentioned, there isn't any significant ancient Phoenician (or Punic) literature surviving to this day though. Having said that, there is a language used in Lebanon that is dying that could be reasonably revived if desired- Syriac. But I am not aware of any major efforts to revive the use of the language outside of liturgical contexts. What do you think about a revival of Syriac?
Syriac is already being taught within the Maronite church specifically. I think it's already been completely revived since we have loads of manuscripts and an entire bible written in Syriac, as well as some literature. I would love to see schools teaching Syriac or a dialect of Syriac (Nabatean Aramaic or Galilean Aramaic) for instance. That would be super interesting.
@@Patrick.Khoury Yes, you're right, that there is a lot of literature written in Syriac, like the Peshitta translation of the Bible. I know some Syriac words from growing up in the Maronite Church, but I can't actually speak anything, or read the script, and no one else I know can either (but I know there are a few, small, isolated villages in Syria that use it, and there are attempts to revive it in Maronite villages in northern Israel). I had read that the last generation who learned Syriac was in the time of Kahlil Gibran, but I would definitely say it's an endangered language.
@@markcutolo2123 Assyrian Christians already speak their dialects for millennia,, I don't know the specific classification in terms of Semitic languages but they have the eastern and western dialects.
@@Patrick.Khoury Indeed, Assyrian Christians already speak their dialects for millennia,, I don't know the specific classification in terms of Semitic languages but they have the eastern and western dialects. As for Galilean Aramaic, an Italian-American scholar has started lessons on his channel but stopped for many years. The other day he said he was thinking of resuming that project but so far he hasn't uploaded any new lessons, unfortunately. I hope he doesn't give it up though.
Resucitar el fenicio es en realidad un proceso de inventar un nuevo idioma inspirado en lo que conocemos del fenicio, nunca se correspondería a la lengua fenicia que se habló históricamente, sino que sería una nueva lengua inspirada en la lengua fenicia. Al no existir ningún movimiento sociocultural o político que lo promueva es prácticamente imposible que algo así suceda. Si existiera un impulso que encontrara esto útil sin lugar a dudas se llevaría a cabo, tenemos el indonesio, el hebreo, el euskera batua, lenguas que en cierto modo no dejan de ser un "construcciones lingüísticas" para que un idioma tenga hablantes solo se necesita gente que desee hablarlo y usarlo. Un ejercicio intelectual interesante sería usar una Inteligencia Artificial para reconstruir ese idioma y darle vida. Debería haber una iniciativa de hacer aprender a la IA todas las lenguas existentes en peligro de extinción para preservarlas.
Claro, revivir el fenicio suena un poco loco, ¿no? Al final, lo que saldría sería una lengua nueva (conlang), no la de antes, que ya se perdió con el tiempo.
Resurrecting Phoenician as an intellectual and historical experiment for study would be an interesting exercise. As for any popular use, it would not be particularly relevant. Once Lebanese have mastered Lebanese Arabic, Modern Standard Arabic, French and English, they truly have learnt enough languages. One last thing, the Phoenician "alphabet" was an abjad. Phoenician script did not become an alphabet until the Greeks adopted it and adapted some of the characters to use for vowels.
Phoenician was very similar to Hebrew and if it'd be revived then the Lebanese would be able to understand the Israelis. Of course I hope that when this happens there already will be peace between the Israelis and Palestinians. Would be pretty cool and tbh I think all the peoples of the Middle East should have good relations.
@@gamermapper Well...Isn't Arabic also pretty similar to Hebrew? I obviously don't speak Phoenician, but I doubt it'd be mutually intelligible with modern Hebrew any more than Arabic.
@ColasTeam Phoenician was almost fully mutually intelligible with Hebrew, including Mishnaic Hebrew, Arabic was never mutually intelligible with Hebrew, it is of course a related language and quite similar at times but not close enough to understand.
Nobody cares about IsNotReal. In fact, almost the entire world has lost respect for it. You're not wel come here.
@@ColasTeamas a Hebrew speaker, I can sometimes understand sentences and words in Arabic just because it's similier, But any reconstruction of phoenician I ever heard is just straight up understandable to me
@@bernardcornellisvanmeijere4375 That's very interesting! I knew Arabic and Hebrew weren't really mutually intelligible, but I assumed Phoenician would also not be.
You're wrong on not knowing the vowels and the consonants.
There is Ugaritic and there are reconstructions of ancient Hebrew. There are also transcriptions of ancient Hebrew. There are also other Canaanite texts.
Yess, and also modern Hebrew exists and is spoken and written (with an Aramaic script, but still)
@arendomtemm9255
Modern Hebrew is a descendant of Biblical Hebrew. But Biblical Hebrew is the result of a complex process of linguistic developments during the Biblical time period, as well as the process of transmission.
In order to get to an approximation of Phoenician, you need to first reverse engineer the linguistic processes in Biblical Hebrew in order to arrive a Ancient Hebrew. Then you need to do linguistic comparisons. This is very possible. These are well studied languages.
@@jaymylotto8134 I think it's been done. There's a Classical Biblical Hebrew, which is the language of Reigns (Samuel/Kings); that's been extended to several psalms. There's Late B.H. which is probably the Temple dialect, in Chronicles and Ezra-Nehemiah.
The ancient dialect is probably that in songs like Deborah's, might crop up in other psalms too.
@zimriel
Why are you trying to educate me?
@@jaymylotto8134 Instinct I guess. Just a memory dump from stuff I'd picked up. No offence was meant.
Unlike Phoenician and Hebrew, Aramaic is NOT a Canaanite language. Along with Canaanite languages, it's part of the northwest branch of Semitic languages. Looking at these languages, it's obvious that Phoenician is much closer to Hebrew than it is to Aramaic.
The Lebanese largely being descendants of the Phoenicians, are too practical to want to revive the Phoenician language. Also considering that many elements of the Phoenician language have already integrated seamlessly into modern Lebanese life, through place names, linguistic influences etc.
Exactly. But imagine speaking it! That would be a whole different level!
@@Patrick.Khoury For sure, it would definitely be cool..!
Mulak/Owner:King
Using Late phoenician and Punic Orthography
Melok / Melk / Mîlk
Kingdom/Ownership: Maluk
Using Late phoenician and Punic Orthography
Molek / Molk / Mulk
House : Bet
Bayt / Biyt -> Bet
To Wander: Rūd
Rawad ( To wander) -> Rūd
Ruwad ( Wanderer) - Rewod / Merūd
Rawud (Wandered/Strolled) -> Rowed / Metrūd
To bless: Barak
Punic / Late phoenician: birok
Blessed: Baruk
Punic / Late phoenician: Borek
Blesser: Burak
Punic / Late phoenician: Berok
Grammar rules found in other canaanite languages + latin / greek orthography of phoenician text with vowels helped me reconstruct fully the phoenician conjugation system, from infinitive to passive participle to active participle which were shown here. As well as Verbal nouns using suffixing conjugations (7adashūt "New" in the same sense as arabic 7adathiya, while 7adusht -> 7odesht is the same sense as arabic "7aditha" this word 7odesht sometimes misinterpreted as "7adasht" is where we get Qart 7odesht from, also known as Carthage in english.)
Very interesting. Thanks!
Do you think the Phoenician shin always had the quality (sh)? What about samekh/simkat and tsad?
@@tyrone2127 its somewhat possible the sheen might've become a śeen or even a seen, but we cant be so sure. This theory is based mostly off of greek and latin transliterations which didnt have a š. I dont see any reason why it'd merge though. However its very possible that like samaritan, the 7et sound became silent. And like aramaic, taw became representative of "th" sound.
Hello
The Phoenicians are my ancestors, my identity and my history. My primary objective is to order the letters necessary for their introduction into writing and then gradually into the Lebanese dialect. We would need the following tools:
1- the letters of the alphabet that are already in our possession thanks to modern archaeology. The work of Abbot Giteaux who compared the bilingual Greco-Phoenician inscriptions mentioned on the walls of the temples in Malta, managed to decipher the meaning of a good majority of them. Furthermore there are other ancient temples on the island of Cyprus and in Israel and even trilingual ones in Sardinia
2- concerning some letters whose meaning has not yet been elucidated, I suggest will be placed according to phonetics. I is already written and ready on sheets of paper
3- transcribe these letters on a CD acting as a translator of the three main languages used in Lebanon (English, French and Arabic)
4- Considering myself seasoned in the history of my ancestors the Phoenicians, therefore necessarily from the Middle East and Mesopotamia, I do not share your historical approach regarding the Aramaic and others.
Conclusion
I am sending you just after some historical testimonies from which you could extract the ISBNs. Moreover the contemporary historian Sabatino Moscati in his work The Phoenicians offers us more than fifty pseudohieroglyphs dating from the middle of the seventeenth century BC, from which the Phoenicians were able to invent twenty-two letters. Are you ready for the adventure to restore our Identity ❤ starting with the letters of alphabet. I remind you politely what Atatürk Had done.
Lebanon should get back to its phoenician roots so it becomes unique again away from the arab influence that its been making it look like the rest of the arab world.
There are movements trying to revive ancient dead languages like Gaulish and Baltic Prussian for instance, I think it would be a precious endeavour but, as you said, the main drawback is the lack of known vowels, whereas languages like Coptic, for instance can provide some clue for the reconstruction of ancient Egyptian words in their hieroglyphs.
The cultural value of a language is not in its practical uses but in the achievements of its culture and, above all, in itself, as a legitimate linguistic treasure!
It's worth reviving not just for Lebanese people but for north Africa also. I'm from Tunisia and I would love to learn it because our dialect is based on Tamazight which is inspired by Phoenician. You know that our arabic (north african) is different and a little difficult for arabic speakers because we still have words from anciant languages even the pronouciation. I think we should look to Tamazight not just Hebrew Arabic and Aramaaic for linguistics comparison with Phoenician, specially that we still have native speakers in Algeria and Marocco and a little Shiha in Tunisia. Thanks for the video ;)
In this book you'll find l'abbé Giteaux translation of the Phoenician Alphabet too.
Historical research leads to the belief that Dabke dance belongs to the phoenicians Time of Lebanon. In his suspense novel, The Ethiopics,Heliodorus (3rd century AD) recounts his meeting with the Phoenicians at Delphi: "They then told me that they were Phoenicians from Tyre, traders by trade, and that they were going to Carthage of Libya with a cargo full of Indian and Ethiopian goods, and others from Phoenicia. For the moment , they celebrated this banquet in honor of Heracles Tyrian to celebrate the victory of this young man (they showed me a boy seated in front of me), who had won the crown in the fight and had proclaimed, among the Greeks, the success of the city of Tire [...] When I left them, they were still listening to the flutes and dancing; they were jumping, to the sound of an Assyrian (3Ashur) tune, played by wind instruments, at a rapid pace; sometimes they rose into the air with light leaps, sometimes they crouched low to the ground and whirled with their whole bodies like people possessed."
french ISBN: 2-07-053456-1 Heliodorus. Les Ethiopiques, Translation by P. Grimal, Gallimard, La Pléiade, 1958
I believe Phoenician is practical and revivable. Using place names in canaan, phoenicia, and all across the colonial empires of the phoenician city states, alongside attested inscriptions, usage of established grammar rules to create verbal nouns or predict other roots and their meanings with the help of other nearby languages, and so forth and so on will help with reconstruction of phoenician. This task is a national endeavor many wouldn't hesitate to undergo. Knowing lebanon's troubling past, a common identity aids in sowing the seeds for unity and progress, and a common language solidifies this process for eons to come.
Thanks for the lovely input! Peace from Beirut 💚
Any Punic texts and inscriptions can help too. I agree a 💯% with you!
Very interesting. Im an Hebrew speaker who learns arabic in the last years. I felt like Arabic is similar to Hebrew but sims like phinician it's much closer
Much closer is an understatement. For all intents and purposes they're the same language. Go look up some Phoenician inscriptions, it's honestly easier to understand than some diasporic varieties of Hebrew
@@Iphonenewsil IsNotReally's aren't welcome in Lebanese circles. Get that through your head.
From an outsider perspective it seems to me that it's mainly Maronites in Lebanon who are into the Phonecian movement, while Sunnis are into Pan-Arabism and Shi'ites into Khomeinism and the Orthodox are.. I'm not really sure? So as long as these groups can be confidently predicted to fall within a particular worldview it would be difficult to revive Phonecian because it requires a nationwide interest and effort.
@@MrEVAQ no wonder, languages have always been vehicules of ideologies and cultures.
Reconstructed Phoenician is Egyptian lunar script, wherein the first 22 signs, themed on the 22 nomes (Upper Egypt), 22 units (cubit ruler), and 22 lunar stanzas (Leiden I350), of the 72 unit number-based hiero-signs of the equinox precession table (valued 1 to 90,000,000), became Phoenician letters. Phoenician, in short, is portable hieroglyphics.
"Phoenician" is a dialect of Hebrew, the most pure dialect too.
@@lostinstrumentalsproject7343 Wrong. Phoenician is a language in its own right.
How do you say "i sat" in phoenician ?
@@lostinstrumentalsproject7343 Most won’t admit it
Because they are brainwashed by the Pan Arabists @@K.Sovereignson
Lebanese identity is worth saving. Aramaic and Hebrew are good resources for resuscitating Phoenician.
Sure one can go through that exercise for fun.
That said, we already have a native language that is a true inheritor of all those previous Semitic tongues. It’s not like Arabic as a language was a completely foreign element that appeared all of a sudden in the 7th century in the Levant and immediately wiped out all existing languages. Different arabic languages already existed in our region and there has been mutual influences with other Semitic languages, either in vocabulary or grammar or script. We can even find in Arabic today words that go back to Sumerian.
And the Arabic language as it evolved in our region along the centuries has been further influenced by Levantines. Up till the 19th century, Levantine scholars added thousands of words to the Arabic language.
Perhaps you can develop a video on that subject.
I am not generally a supporter of phoenicianism, generally i am not fond of most nationalistic ideas, but i find your arguments against the reviving of the Phoenician language quite lacking. First of all your analysis is extremely utilitarian. A language doesn't have to be widely used to be a legitimate language. Many languages are being revived right now for cultural and identitarian reasons. And here is the second problem. You fail to explain the context of phoenician revival. It has a lot in common with the revival of Hebrew as a language with native speakers. The only difference is that indeed as you said phoenicianists start with a lot less than the hebrew revival started.
Phoenician is a native healing language like Native American. It is necessary if you want to maintain peace and health.
5:25 absolutely. It's very Lebanese.
Please do it!!
Bro, you get the pronunciation from the remnants found in Lebanese "Arabic accent" weighted with Tunisian and east Algerian "daridja"
What I consider the main point is that Phoenician has left essentially nothing behind.
All those centuries at the top of the Mediterranean world and we don't have a single poem, a single song left. Not even a "handbook for the perfect trader". Every single papyrus has decomposed into oblivion.
In stead of reviving Phoenician as it was originally spoken, Lebanon should encourage the fusion of Arabic, Aramaic, French, and English, and then sparingly mix in archaic Phoenician as revived place-names, poetic alternative language (ie., poetically use a Phoenician-derived word for blue to emphasize the ancient and everlasting color of the sky), etc. into a new local creole called simply “Lebanese”. This will allow Lebanon to have its own unique language for national identity, while not erasing Lebanon’s evolving history.
I think a good middle ground would be a Phoenician and Lebanese Syriac inspired Neo-Aramaic
The way i see it, the Israelis already revived Canaanite and therefore Phoenician.
The Lebanese wouldnt have to revive Phoenician, since they could adapt modern Hebrew, but given recent events i doubt they'd have much desire to do so, and i wouldn't blame them.
Ive thought reviving Levatine Aramaic might be more productive.
Make Lebanon Phoenician Again!
Also, Arabic is similar to the other Semitic languages. Nice video bro❤
@@titasghosh3350 Thanks 💚💚
Why not? The Phoenician language must be revived again it is more important than the other languages we speak, and the Phoenicians are the ones who founded Lebanon and gave it this name, and the entire Phoenician civilization is present in Lebanon If someone tells us about the history of Lebanon, how will we answer him if we do not have its civilization? Therefore, the Lebanese state must revive the Phoenician language, civilization and its effects This is an essential step for Lebanon🇱🇧🛶💜
I come to this channel for the fascinating linguistic topics (OK, and the charm of the creator), but I stay for the droll metaphors and similes ;)
Haha, thank you for the kind words! You know, I've always wanted to be a droll metaphor machine 😉
Isn't it in the very nature of a phoenix to be continually reborn from the ashes?
Lebanon has been and still a correction for its inherited identities as you may have said implicitly phonecian is a correction for the canaanite and early aramaic and it was a must at its time due the recivilization of these nomade ancestors
Now the situation is a mixture of syriano Arabo judaic anarchists who ruined the region by their struggles if we can recivilize these we succeed in reviving our true culture and can call whatever namely Phoenican and Lebanon is the heart of the process
Ugaritic isn’t Canaanite, it’s Northwest Semitic but it’s more closely related to Amorite.
Were the Phoenicians Caananites who survived the Sea People apocalypse...or were they a different people?
@jeremycline9542 the Phoenicians met the Greeks..so yeah...they disappeared much later..more like the first centuries before and after christ
what about lebanese aramaic in serto script?
Also I don’t think we should revive Phoenician or any of the Canaanite languages for larger state building unless we decide to move towards a pan-Levantine state. That’s legit the only reason I could see for that, and even then, I think an Aramaic would be better for that if we want some sense of an “indigenous” language identity.
We are related man. Maternal haplogroup x2. Gets lot of Khourys matches Dna.
correction, sidon was pronouncer with ṣadē.
Sidon was originally Ṣaydūn -> Ṣēdōn
A combination of the word to hunt/fish in semitic
Ṣayd which becomes ṢD in phoenician, knowing aya becomes ē in phoenician, thus becomes Ṣēd.
When suffixed with the dimunitive/entitifying -ōn, it becomes Ṣēdōn.
or Ṣedūn.
This is also present in the name of lebanon itself. a combination of Lîban=White, and the suffix -ōn which indicates a place of or a dimunitive. Thus in phoenician, Lebanon, or LBNN would be Lîbanōn/Lîbanūn or Lîbnōn/Lîbnūn.
the -ūn suffix becomes -ōn in later phoenician and punic.
Thank you for the input. Very useful 💚
@@lostinstrumentalsproject7343 No
yes, lets start with not calling it by a greek word, but by its actual name... canaanite.
but the modern "phonecians" are ashamed of that name... canaan.
Phoenix =aarnaqa in Arabic or semitic I don't see a difference between aarnaquians and Phoenician
Don't get into the blurry of not bringing close neighbor people language
Yes, it deserves to be revived. ❤
@@eluemina2366 Indeed
Would very cool to see it revived, but unfortunately not too practical for the reasons mentioned in this video. The opportunity cost is probably too big, possibly even insurmountable.
@@matyaksenton4301 Agreed
Isnt Phoenician just Canaanite?
Pretty sure it is, they litterally called themself canaanites
Considering how similar modern Hebrew is to modern Arabic (not as closely related as Biblical Hebrew or the more contemporaneous proto-Hebrew were to other Canaanite dialects - including the one the Greeks knew as Phoenecian), you'd THINK it would be relatively easy.
But the language of "kanan" (as the Carthaginians would probably have called it) was around for a long time - a millennium or so from, say, the early Iron Age through to the late Roman Republic - and undoubtedly changed over time at least as much as, say, today's Western European languages have changed since the Viking Age.
And, as pointed out here, we just don't have that much of the language documented for any given time (let alone enough to track its evolution over time) and have nothing analogous to the "Rosetta stone") either.
@PeloquinDavid we do have Hebrew, a Canaanite dialect, brought back from the dead and modernized with Palestinian Arabic root words to meet contemporary demands.
The work is already done.
@PeloquinDavid perhaps what modern Hebrew could be used for, is to create a firm fleshed out platform from which to start to work, and correct for some of the archaic remnants and native Semitic pronunciation that were discarded, because white Europeans couldn't emulate them. Sort of a where did modern Hebrew go wrong approach.
Or another way may be to use biblical Hebrew as a starting point and entirely modernize it again, this time independently from that of Israeli Hebrew.
@boxerfencer Some of the problem is that even "Biblical" Hebrew is a rather late phenomenon, historically speaking: except for a few snipets of archaic text (the "Song of Deborah" is often mentioned), most of the Tanakh - including the Torah - dates from late Assyrian (the fall of Israel proper) to neoBabylonian times (the fall of Judah and the Babylonian exile) - hundreds of years after the heyday of the "Phoenecians" in the Levant and roughly the span of time that separates us from Middle English.
Not an impossible task but one that requires a LOT of speculative assumptions, particularly in the absence of a big hoard of documents on clay tablets somewhere with "Phoenecian" texts translated into, say, Akkadian.
reviving phoenician, with our severely limited understanding, would be akin to inventing a new language. it would not be practical and likely not useful.
reconstructing phoenician as an academical exercise could be interesting.
Hebrew has done the heavy lifting for you. After all, back in the day they would have been mutually intelligible dialects. It's time to unarabise the Levant. Build Lebanon with a revived language and unite your country into a prosperous and peaceful land.
Was it the Romans who destroyed most of their papyri at Carthage?
@@jeremycline9542 That is correct..
It would be fun to learn a few words, like hello, and thank you. Maybe the eternal swear words that people love!
As cool as it would be to revive Phoenician, I don't think that's going to happen. Not only not enough of it has been preserved to be revived, but there's no support for it: there isn't a living Phoenician identity to claim it back and put it to use like with Hebrew, not a political will to do it. So unfortunately it will remain a preserve of a few language nerds
I agree..
Personally I would rather expand Neo-Hebrew and Neo-Aramaic speakers across the Levant. Neo-Hebrew is dang close to Phoenician as is. As well, I would like to see Late South Akkadian revived and spread as the main language of Eastern Syria and Iraq.
Plus, most Christians were actually Jews so there you go
As a Semiticist, the more the merryer.
שלום
5:55 the jews NEVER stopped using Hebrew in the Long diaspora. We use Hebrew names, we read the Torah and other holy books in Hebrew etc, all that for the past over 2000 years.
Hey Patrick, really love your videos from Israel. Wish you and your family all the best. Would be cool if you guys revived Phoenician, then we could speak each respective language but understand each other despite that.
Shalom. Salam to you 💚
@@Patrick.KhouryI also was thinking about the question that you posed about the feasibility, and I think it should be possible. Hebrew is a good example, we do have the bible which is a great source material. I can assume the Judean and Israel canaanites spoke a similar dialect to Pheonicians and other nations around like Amonites, edomites, etc. so we can lean on this resources and apply it on Pheonician. Also languages change over time, so it can be branded as Neo Phoenician :)
It doesn't have to be a perfect reconstruction but can be close enough to work imho.
Considering that people are studying Latin and Greek, why not?
And can we use Maltese as a resource?
@@Maurice-Navel As a resource for what exactly?
@@Maurice-Navel Latin and ancient Greek are relatively easier to learn since they already had vowels inserted, unlike phoenician where you have to guess the vowels. This makes it very challenging.What we can do is infer the vowels through analogical work with Hebrew, its closest relative.
I beleive it was extinct for a reason. Better let it rest in peace.
@@angosalvo5734 Thanks for your input 💚
Well, you would understand your neighbours to the south much better :)
@@romero522 Yes!
Following hehehe
@@manurioj 💚
The Amoritic-Akkadian bi-lingual, the limited vowel notation in Ugaritic, and the latest work done on the cantilation marks found in Bible manuscripts actually show that Hebrew is very conservative with regards to pronounciation.
Even the so called European pronounciation of modern Hebrew, is reflected largely in Talmudic remarks on bad pronounciation of Galileans. And the contractions found in the Bar Kokhba letters.
If one would revive Phoenician using the latest data with regards to pronounciation it would basically be modern Hebrew. The biggest difference would be a more strict VSO word order. And I imagine that some loan words would be closer to the Mediterranean norm, like instead of "tɛ" for tea it would be"ṣay". Some Persian loans found In Aramaic, Hebrew and Arabic would be replaced with Semitic reconstructions.
Furthermore if Punic would also be used to add to the reconstructed Phoenician, the pronounciation of the zayn, would become /s/ instead of /z/. And more Greek and Latin loans would be added, compared to Aramaic and Hebrew.
Once people start using the language, it will naturally be overwhelmed by Hebrew media (films, tv, etc), which speakers of reconstructed Phoenician will be able to understand with ease. And Reconstructed Phoenician will naturally become even more like Hebrew. I imagine that politically a Libanon that rediscovers its linguistic and cultural ties to Israel is not something that would be embraced by Iran and its proxy, nor would warm the hearts of pan-Arabists. Outside of maybe a Christian minority and possibly a minor subsection of the Druze support for such a thing (de-Arabization) isn't there politically.
It's not a question of if it can be done. More so if there is enough support to do it.
Ancient Tur/Turanian/ Turkish speaking people’s language is Canaatires’.
Why try and adopt a language which has been dead for over 2,000 years. Especially when the Arabic language is so beautiful. From a Palestinian Christian who loves my Lebanese brothers!
End Arab imperialism and embrace indigenous culture
Peace from Lebanon brother 💚
The distinction between the semitic languages is an arbitrary things,.people at the time weren't aware that they spoke phonecian or hebrew or arabic, there was many ways of talking of some variant degrees of mutual intelgibility. So in my opninion, the ways of speaking at the time developped into the ways of speaking now to what we call the arabic dialects, so in some sense phonecians is still alive, it just changed and integrated into some form of what we call arabic dialects.
Ps: the words that you mentioned (yad, bet, malik ..) are still used in arabic dialects from morocco to kowait.
Thanks for your input!!
I'm not sure. In the Bible there are mentions of Canaanite, Chaldean/Aramaic, and Judahite. Maybe not as rigid as current linguistic classification, but they seemed to be aware of other Semitic groups speaking distinct Semitic dialects, naming the tongue after the speakers.
That's patently false.
Id be careful to legitimise Hebrew as a language distinct from Canaanite or Phoenician. Support for an independent jewish nation as the bible speaks to is severely lacking in terms of archeology.
Also several scholars have pointed out torah judaism doesnt start till around the 3rd century and most of the bible itself is a Hellenic composition, as a sort of pious forgery, that retrospectively reimagines history as a nation building project centered around monolotry of yaweh.
It's revisionist history, specifically the idea of identity as being diametrically opposed to Canaanite culture and religion.
In actuality, we know the religious portrayal isnt true. We know historical Israelites were not monotheistic, nor monolotrous, but polytheistic.
We also know the yaweh cult wasnt idiosyntratic to Israelites. One of the most significant inscriptions is the Mesha Stele, which was found in modern-day Jordan. It dates back to the 9th century BCE and mentions Yahweh in the context of Moabite religion and culture.
Other archaeological evidence, such as pottery fragments and inscriptions, suggests that Yahweh was worshiped in various Canaanite cities, in addition to those in the "kingdoms" of Israel and Judah. Direct references to Yahweh in Canaanite religious texts are limited but exist, suggesting a unified religious spectrum, as opposed to Canaanite vs Israel and Judah.
I suspect our modern idea of Israelites is largely fiction, barely more historical than Arthur and Merlin, or Robin Hood, and that the entire Levant was simply Phoenician city states, each with their own primary city cult, in addition to the worship of other gods.
Phoenician had only one single vowel, the _schwa_ ə. MLK was pronounced _mələk_ and YT was _yət_ etc. Source: my greatx112 grandpapa was Carthaginian. We called him _səbə_
Are you Muslim?
@@mansurel-feleq6267 No
@Patrick.Khoury probably Christian
Hi
Here are my remarks:
a) Izatawada inscription is the longest (KAI 26) and not Kilamuwa inscription (KAI 24). Almost double in characters.
b) Grammar books exist for Phoenician with slight differences for some conjugation pronunciations.
c) For verb/subject/object you have also subject/verb/object depending on dialects, periods, styles, ..... Interpretations books of some important inscriptions give the syntaxes.
d) for pronunciations, even with the lack of vowels, technics based on cognate languages, greek, latin and neo punic may give some but not the whole thing.
e) if a pizza with pineapple exists it means that there are people who love eating pizza with pineapple.
f) for wifi and other modern words they can be used as is. Do not forget the existing of loanwords in Phoenician and other languages.
g)Please do not forget that Phoenician is part of the heritage of Lebanese.
𐤉𐤌 𐤍𐤏𐤌 (Yom Na3im -Hello in Phoenician)
Hello
The Phoenicians are my ancestors, my identity and my history. My primary objective is to order the letters necessary for their introduction into writing and then gradually into the Lebanese dialect. We would need the following tools:
1- the letters of the alphabet that are already in our possession thanks to modern archaeology. The work of Abbot Giteaux who compared the bilingual Greco-Phoenician inscriptions mentioned on the walls of the temples in Malta, managed to decipher the meaning of a good majority of them. Furthermore there are other ancient temples on the island of Cyprus and in Israel and even trilingual ones in Sardinia
2- concerning some letters whose meaning has not yet been elucidated, I suggest it will be placed according to phonetics. I is already written and ready on sheets of paper
3- transcribe these letters on a CD acting as a translator of the three main languages used in Lebanon (English, French and Arabic)
4- Considering myself seasoned in the history of my ancestors the Phoenicians, therefore necessarily from the Middle East and Mesopotamia, I do not share your historical approach regarding the Aramaic and others.
Conclusion
I am sending you just after some historical testimonies from which you could extract the ISBNs. Moreover the contemporary historian Sabatino Moscati in his work The Phoenicians ISBN 3.7144.23.78.7 offers us more than fifty pseudo hieroglyphs dating from the middle of the seventeenth century BC, from which the Phoenicians were able to invent twenty-two letters. Are you ready for the adventure to restore our Identity ❤ starting with the letters of the alphabet. I remind you politely what Atatürk Had done.