This is the BEST Rudder! | Sailing Wisdom
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2019
- They are one of the most important parts on your boat, yet often the least thought about: Rudders!
In this video, we look at different design characteristics and the particulars imparted from these different designs.
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We sail a Stamas 44 ketch from 1985. Her stock rudder was 30" wide and about 8" thick. The chord was way too fat. While sailing the rudder was constantly stalling on both the windward and leeward side. Hand steering required complete concentration. Luckily auto steering works well. So after sailing all summer like that, we bought a new custom rudder from Ruddercraft. Wider and thinner with a chord ratio of about 12:1 to 14:1 (it tapers). We re-launched a month ago and are very favorably impressed with the modification. It's probably rare to find someone who has redesigned their boat below the waterline.
You pretty much covered the basics.
You also talked about compensated rudders, and it is worth mentioning here that compensating a rudder is an excellent way of reducing autopilot power consumption.
About twin rudders and their advantages:
- Because one of the two is always acting vertically in the water (more efficient as you mentioned), then they don't need to be as long and deep as single rudders.
- When they are hung on the transom, they can be hinged so that the upwind rudder can be flipped out of the water.
- This hinge mechanism also incorporates a safety shear pin, so that in case of choc with a floating object, the rudder flips backward and out.
- twin rudders also means you always have a spare rudder.
The flip side of twin rudders is that they are a pain for maneuvring the boat at slow speeds in close quarters.
Very cool points about twin rudders.
Thanks!
My boat (a 1974 Dufour 35) has its stock entering the hull above the waterline. It was a major buying point for me. No freezing in winter and zero risk of sinking because of a rudder dropping out.
That is an excellent design feature!!
Really loving your info videos Thanks so much for putting the effort into these for us! Can not wait to see you guys set sail again soon :)
Great video and information. Thanks for sharing.
Looking forward to the next adventure underway. Take care.
Keep having fun.
🙏👍❤️😁
Love the barn door rudder 😊 great videos. Keep ‘em coming
Thanks for the presentation. Cruiser here with a great protected rudder.
Fin keel, dual fin keel, and full keel. Cruiser. Nice content.
Very good information. You're editing was excellent!
Glad you liked it!
Another great teaching video! You need to make the ones for West Marine, ha. Your wayyyyyy betterrrrr!
Very well done. So easy to understand after watching your video. I learnt to sail in a trailer sailer and recently I have sailed in Hansa 303's. I always wondered how the Hansa boat could turn so well. So now I know, because of the rearmost position of the rudder.
I am building a small RC boat for the grandkids and I am wondering how to build the rudder to fit. Now I know exactly what I need and what shape will fit the boat.
You have been very helpful.
Kind regards and keep sailing.
Thank you very much
I am boat shopping for my first blue water boat and such useful info. thanks
Glad it was helpful for you!
An Alberg 30...
Carl Alberg was a great designer!
I'm looking at building a daysailer with a Kvaerner or VARA-type rudder cylinder through which the rudder is dropped like a daggerboard. If it breaks...
Just drop another blade in.
Good information on rudders. Again there are always compromises and you get what you get.
Well said
Got a inflatable kayak (Sevylor Tahaa) it sits flat on the water and I have no skeg, thats an expirience.. gonna make a bad ass rudder/skeg, Great video
Thank you Dr Riggens!
Have you talked about hull speed?
Mast height?
Why does the transom design change do much
Beamy boats vs narrow boats...
You rock! Be safe
That was a good video , you covered lots of rudders . So slightly different idea, what about different designs of boarding options, for swimmers , from docks, dinghy etc this can really make the difference on the usability of a boat and should be an important decision when choosing a yacht . Cheers Warren
Great suggestion, thanks!
I see you took my idea about what to talk about next, great.
And if I think of anything Else I will let you know.
Oh just thought of your next talk, do one on propellers.
Thanks for the ideas!
Might as well tackle bow thrusters!👍😊✌️🙏🏼
Good idea!
We don't like spade rudders coz they don't have a skeg and chances of hitting something underwater is high especially here in Malaysia. Great video thank you so much.
Protecting the rudder should be a top priority!
Hi, thank you for the video! I watched because I am currently working on building a new Rudder for my Rob Roy 23 Yawl. It is a difficult thing to engineer and several of this design have had problems. It is attached beneath the stern to a rudder post with plates welded on either side of the post. A stainless bolt runs through the plates to hold the rudder and allow movement up-and-down via a line attached to the trailing edge of the lower portion that runs up to the cockpit over the transom...
I appreciate your comment about the “fuse” because I do not want to build it so strong that it will not break-away....
Best of luck and kudos to you for doing the work yourself!
Spade rudder because we run a charter company and are on and off up to 8 docks a day and rely on the control while in reverse in often less then ideal conditions.
Watching those boats dock is impressive! They back up the entire fairway!!
I have a 1981 lancer that I just bought it has a fin keel and a skeg Rudder and I cannot give you a report on it because I have not went even for a sea trial yet I am preparing the boat now and looking forward to it so when I get off on my journey of going around the world I will give you a report on it
And there are the kickup rudders on lightweight boats. If you hit something, the kick up.
I’m really interested in what’s happening in the foiling scene - particularly in how boat design might be changed in the near future, to include some foiling technology. I know the racers are literally living on a knife edge, and the stability is eschewed for speed, but I imagine that you could have a hull design that incorporates a foiled keel and rudders, that would improve boat stability, speed & efficiency, while potentially also allowing for sitting upright on a muddy/sandy bottom. I person can dream.
A friend that I have met is working on just that. The hull itself has “foiling” parts on the chine so that it does it automatically.
It is very cool!
Great video.......as always :-)
Help me, Doctor. You talk the talk now pls talk the prop walk :-)
You guys are great! I love the information and visual aids.
I had just begun to wonder about rudders. Do you have any suggestions for good books on boat anatomy and maintenance and how to cruise?
Yes! The Capable Cruiser and the Cost Conscious Cruiser by the Pardeys. And Dave Gerr’s The Elements of Boat Strength
Thanks. I'll read em. My gf and I are just starting to look for a boat together. Im excited to go for a long cruise when we're ready
I noticed that you don't have a video that shows just how up wind sailing is achieved , showing forces on the sail ,keel and rudder , distance between them and how they affect upwind movement . Basically sailing physics, which is essentially the hardest thing to grasp and the first thing you need to understand.
Add it to your videos and then you can teach all , on your site .
Your videos are great ! Just needs this basic principle expressed so anybody can understand basically why you need sail , keel and rudder and how placement improves upwind and down wind performance. Thanks for sharing !
That is a very good sail topic. I tried to make a video on it but my animation skills are not good enough. I want to build a better model to show it all and that will take some time, but it is in the plans!
On my Sigma 362 I've got a kind of hybrid. Essentially it is an unbalanced spade rudder (the rudder post is at the leading edge) but there is a fin extending from just aft of the P post to the rudder where it is about 12" deep. In this way it semi-protects the top end of the rudder so nothing can get caught in the hull/rudder joint and jam it up like it could in the Benetau you show in the video. Whether it would protect it enough to prevent me from losing the rudder I hope never to find out! I was chatting to someone (a very experienced long-distance cruiser) about this issue a while ago and his opinion was that anything you run into is going to hit the keel first and would get deflected away from thr rudder anyway. Of course, that too is just a theory and one I'd rather not put to the test!
Any extra protection is better than no protection at all.
I think it was on a Distant Shores episode where they had weeds getting caught in their rudder/hull area. It wasn’t jamming but it was causing drag.
I've seen that fast rudder break in the high seas. Not good. But it's interesting to see military rescuing a family from a broken rudder sailboat in the middle of nowhere Atlantic.
Lived on and sailed a Pearson 26 for a couple of years. Fin keel with a BIG rudder on a post. Hauled out to do some bottom work. Manually moved the rudder to one side to sand a portion of the hull. The rudder fell off!! Electrolytic corrosion had eaten through the rudder post. Fortunately it fell off in the yard and not in the last sail up the coast of Maine to the yard. Don't have my next boat yet but whatever it is, the rudder won't be just hangin' out there. I'm leaning toward offshore, full keel (I will be single handed).
Ouch! Thankfully it made it all the way to the dry dock! At least it happened at the best place for a problem like that to occur ⛵️
@@RiggingDoctor And I didn't even have to sacrifice a virgin to Neptune! lol I was most certainly grateful.
Ok, so why is Hallberg Rassey now going with the two rudder system with a smallish keel and yet they are non racing blue water cruisers?
You did leave out rudder shape. I am not referring to aspect ratio or width (i.e., barn door versus spade). Rather I am talking about the fore and aft shape of the rudder. Many cruisers have a simple flat rudder while higher performance rudders are actually foils like keels and have a NACA foil shape.
This video goes into that exact topic. ua-cam.com/video/Eq9SLnDpJMc/v-deo.html
I want a full keel and the usual rudder sets that comes with them. However I am really worried about docking. Is the prop walk as effective? Do they work as well backing as a spade rudder does, even if the effectiveness in the first place my be negligible?? Generally I worry about getting enough out of the propulsion and steering to dock effectively.
Prop walk is never enough when you need it and too much when you can’t have it.
We just never attempt to stern in if there is wind or current, in those cases we bow in. At some point it will be calm and we spin the boat then.
You will get used to the setup you get and then you will get better at that setup. I’m pretty good at Wisdom but a total noob on any other boat!
With the Albert style rudder you do get the prop wash effects it's slightly limited
We also have a 1966 Albert 30, but it’s engineless so I have no experience with the rudder notch for the prop. All I know about that notch is how great it is for servicing the shaft and the reduced effectiveness of the “stern thruster” trick.
Good to hear from someone with first hand experience on the matter.
Yet one more interesting design is the boreal daggerboard combo. e.g. www.morganscloud.com/2010/06/10/rudder-options/ It uses a smaller barn door like rudder, but it is supplemented by a dagger board that can be adjusted vertically to give more lift and balance the helm using clean water. I've never used this but like this ideal. While it might be a bit more awkward to get used to and reportedly the boat is still not great in tight quarters, it seems to give an ingenious solution for simplicity and redundancy.
Kickup rudder on the Gemini 105 MC catamarn --> hit something? no problems its just kicks up and is ready to go again if the water is getting deeper
--> generly you seem to ignore multihulls with all your topicsit would be great if you could be a bit more inclusive :)
We should cover multihull,p boats, thanks for the idea!
To answer your questions... We have a giant keel hung rudder. And yes, I think about this topic all the time. It is a frequent subject in my head from when I'm swearing at it for not being able to backup out of my slip, or when I'm jealously watching fin keel with spade rudders nimbly do tiny circles in the fairway. Once we are underway, it is fine and dandy and I never worry about it again.
But backing up is an adventure as you never know where you will go until you are up to speed in reverse. (Seriously, 2 blade prop + full barn door rudder = reverse lotto)
I spent roughly 27 years in a Albin Vega where the propeller exits the counter stern above and behind the rudder. There was no steering in reverse until about two knots. Thankfully it was so light that I could easily manhandle it out of any slip. However reversing into a slip or setting anchor ranged from comical to terrifying depending on the boat's mood that day.
@@flyingdutchman6984 this made me laugh as it is so close to my own experiences.
@@jordanharkness - for some reason my comment appears to have disappeared. Oh well..... Anyways thanks for the comment back.
Is it take called a fuse or is that what you call it? It's failure mode is to break off..it's similar to how a fuse works..a specified failure mode so it doesn't take it everything else. Also kind of like a key on a shaft..so is it a failure mode, a fuse, or a key?
What's it called when part of the rudder is in front of the axis of rotation..where it gives you a little bit of power steering due to water pushing on the part of the rudder in front of the axis of rotation?
The front part of the rudder is called a “compensated rudder”.
I call it a fuse because it is the safety point. I’m not sure what the designers call it, but it is the planned failure point to protect the rest of the boat.
Full keel aft rudder. Going in reverse is an adventure.
Very true! We go forward and to starboard 🤣
If I had a 'Performance Rudder', at the very least I'd attach a ring and stainless cable to the top corner so you wouldn't lose the whole blade. Even better, cut a 45º notch from the top trailing corner and hang the rudder from a robust hinge locked with a shear pin. You can replace a shear at sea, but not a rudder...Our Balboa swing keel had a 'drop in' rudder that was great for beaching but could be tough to pull if you hit a sand bar...
I like the shear pin idea!
It's like most things in life, it's a compromise
Why have blue water boat manufacturers like Amel and RS gone with twin rudders? Is there a design feature that offers some resilience if you run over something?
Actually quite the opposite, they are no longer protected by the keel and are at more risk of being damaged.
The reason they do it is not because at the cutting edge of racing, it has its advantages which are never going to be realized by the normal cruiser, but because it looks fancy and sets them apart from other boat manufacturers (which all do the same).
Race boats have features because of rules or performance, and people buying a boat want it to look like the race boats they see. In turn, the manufacturers make boats that look like the race boats to improve their sales numbers.
A few companies make boats because they are good and not because they “look” good. These boats look very different from all the other manufacturers.
Forgot to ask. How was the cruise between Angra and Porto? Did the weather mess around with your patience?
We just made landfall. 18 days to make the passage. Our last day we managed 122 miles made good (noon to noon)
@@RiggingDoctor Holy macquerel ! Did you make a detour through the fastnet rock?
I'll wait to hear all the details.
Haha, almost!
We made it up to 47N and then came down over the Iberian peninsula. Once we were over it, we were downwind and down current, giving us some very easy miles :)
Hello are you arrive in Iberia yet. Saludos Iberos
Hello! We made it here on July 1st. We just got back to the boat after walking all over Porto ;)
hello go here. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_S%C3%A3o_Martinho_de_Cedofeita . rent a car drive couple of days north to Santiago de Compostela, south to Olivenza Spain, back to the boat. Happy Independence Day FROM England. glad you safe in the beautiful PENINSULA IBERICA the land of my fathers .saludos
Why do so many newer boats have spade rudders. Hate it…!
👍👍👍
Rudders are also major parts of aircraft
I’m a racer. I race with 5 knots
Rudder = Lobster pot line collection device.
Very true!!
There's also the eMotion rudder like on the Hanse 315 that places a pod motor on the rudder.
ua-cam.com/video/n5mIn8J_WM0/v-deo.html
That setup is awesome! It gives you the ability to direct thrust like with an outboard but on a big boat!
I'm here because I didn't know what a rudder is and am about to watch a hour long video of a guy losing it on a 30ft sail boat 1000 miles away from hawii
Holy crap! What video is that?
We lost control of our rudder at the beginning of an 1,800 mile voyage once. We couldn’t return because the area was all sharp rocks and a tricky entrance to the harbor! I was able to fix it and keep sailing normally, but if you lose your rudder you have nothing to repair!!!
@@RiggingDoctor ua-cam.com/video/1AZXXKj0p0s/v-deo.html
:)
By means of a good British rudder and faith in that rudder ,some of the mutineers of the "Bounty"managed to elude and escape from the British empire against all odds .By faith in a King James Bible stolen from Capt Blythe kept dry and safe below one the the mutineers managed to elude and escape hell itself along with some of his family members.A man without a rudder is hopelessly adrift and subject to every new politically correct wind causing men to drown in perdition.The residents of Pitcairn are adrift again but at one time they were on a straight course.Not unlike America.
@Jim Nickles I like it!!
Maddie you should be ashamed letting your man on UA-cam with that winded hair girl!!! LoL 😝
Omg I know it looked sooo bad