Accident Case Study: Everyone's Problem
Вставка
- Опубліковано 5 кві 2016
- Link to certificate, WINGS credit, and ASI transcript: bit.ly/ACSEveryonesProbCert
Description: The Air Safety Institute’s Accident Case Study: Everyone’s Problem takes a look at a flight training accident in Texas that killed a flight instructor and two students on November 15, 2007. The video was originally developed for ASI’s online Flight Instructor Refresher Course, and holds lessons for all of us-not only as pilots and CFIs, but as friends, peers, and co-workers.
Most Accident Case Study videos: "A complex and nuanced series of poor decisions that led to tragedy might have been avoided had those involved been more familiar with a web of regulations and procedures."
This video: "A stupid person killed two people and himself."
Hence a short video.
Those aren't mutually exclusive. (Although in this case I agree that the latter is more accurate than the former.)
My first CFI was just like this. He was an immature show off, barely old enough to vote, yet he had a ridiculously high amount of flight time in his logbook. It turns out that all of those hours were crop dusting hours. I lost count of the number of times he would take the controls to fly under a power line while just barely keeping the gear out of a barbed wire fence. One day he invited me to bring my wife along for a familiarization flight. He proceeded to wring that Skyhawk inside out until my wife was crying, spewing chunks all over the airplane. I had to physically threaten him to make him stop, at which time I took the controls, landed the plane at a nearby uncontrolled airport ten miles from home base and fired him on the spot. I then phoned his FBO to explain to his boss why he would soon be returning, minus his passengers. They sent a courtesy car for us and got us back just in time to witness the FBO owner literally throwing him out of the terminal. I've no doubt that he's augered into a field somewhere since then. I can only hope he was alone when it happened.
Well done!
Dude, how did it even get to that point?
You fire asshole the day you meet them.
@@forrestgreene1139 the video goes into that. Path of least resistance. No one wants to be the “asshole” so they don’t take decisive action until it goes too far.
Seems…. kinda made up.
@@ryanp6999 Nope. My FBO was at Bates Municipal, Mobile, AL. I fired my CFI after landing at St. Elmo Airport, 13 miles south of Bates. His little 'demo flight' was in the practice area, just off of Dauphin Island, 5000 feet over Mobile Bay. One thing I did get wrong however was his probable fate. Mr Google says he's still alive and well almost 40 years later, although he apparently is no longer flying, which is as it should be.
Something the video doesn't mention that I feel is incredibly important to say; when you push an aircraft beyond its design envelope you are essentially guaranteed to cause damage to the airframe. Sometimes this damage is instantaneous, as in this case. Other times it's Insidious, Invisible cracks or metal fatigue slowly weakening the structure over the next however many flights. Often times its not the reckless who die from aerobatics in aircraft that can't handle it, it's the unassuming sucker who flies the aircraft a day, a week, a month later when the fatigue damage finally gives out.
Very true. When I was in the Air Guard we had an A-10 that had inadvertently been flown well past it G limit. They ended up towing it out to the front gate of the base and put it on static display, which is where it still sits today.
@@joevignolor4u949 "inadvertently" 😆
@@ianutube22Yes inadvertently. It was flying during a training mission and the pilot either pulled up too hard or turned it excessively hard. Warplanes have a G-meter on the instrument panel that displays the current G load and records the maximum G load during a flight. But they usually don't have G limiters because in combat or when flying close to the ground it might be necessary to pull up or turn very hard to stay alive.
@@joevignolor4u949 I am not questioning your story about it being an honest mistake just I hear and read a lot of stories of the military losing, damaging and destroying equipment due to inadvertent mistakes and the like. I never buy any of it at face value anymore. Government has become ripe with excuses and lack of accountability. I understand your point however and understand why they grounded the A-10 you're referring to.
@@ianutube22 I understand. That story was my own personal account and not something released in the press by the military. Also, military equipment is often accidentally damaged while its being used and this occurs all the time. For example, years later the same Guard unit had two A-10's collide in mid air. One pilot was killed and the other ejected but was seriously injured and both A-10's were destroyed. During the investigation they had two other A-10's do the same tactical maneuver and they almost collided in the same manner as the two accident aircraft. It turned out that there was a flaw in the technique used during that maneuver and if the sun was in just the right spot the pilots would get blinded and collide. But the highest accident rate belongs to the Navy while doing carrier operations. They typically have one aircraft destroyed or damaged every week. But it happens so often its usually never reported unless someone is killed.
During officer training we were repeatedly told “the standard you set is the standard you walk away from”. You know when something isn’t right, you get that feeling on the back of your neck. Someone must have known about this guy but walked away from it.
A “good” pilot with a reckless streak is not a good pilot.
Well said Gabe.
Justine-Paula Robilliard Yep, he should’ve been grounded the first time he pulled a stunt. The senior instructors who knew he was dangerous are complicit in the three deaths that occurred.
Agreed....skilled perhaps yes but the attitude makes him bad.
As we used to say in the RAF, there are old pilots and bold pilots but there are no old bold pilots!
@@33moneyball He has poor judgment and a delusional degree of self- confidence.
Probably a likable and charismatic guy whom nobody wanted to piss off. Probably the kind of guy who would harass and publicly humiliate anyone who opposes him, and others probably just follow along. Probably the kind of guy whom I would go out of my way to try to put him in his proper place. Probably the kind of guy who has lots of friends backing him up. I've seen it a thousand times.
wow you sound like a real badass!
@@coolbrounderscore - I've taken more than my share of beatings while standing up for what's right. Dealt a few out, too, though. No, I'm no badass, but the only thing that really scares me is the thought of not standing up to those who are doing wrong.
@@robertgantry2118 Good man.
@@robertgantry2118 my next paycheck is on this guy being ALSO someones' relative in the company ownership, or went to school with the owners' kid. I'm in const. and logistics and the first thing I want to know if I have to deal with an asshat or someone that thinks the rules don't apply is !) who is he related to, and 2( who did he go to school with, and take it from there. Sometimes I can get his "bro" to walk him out into a foggy field and have a man/boy talk with him. Sometimes.
You just described a Democrat.
I was working on my instrument rating back in 2000, in a 172, my instructor did a snap roll on a one mile final, and We landed uneventfully. He did it again the next day, with another student, And an FAA administrator was on the field, saw him do it! Tickets pulled. Bye bye airline career!
The administrator probably saved a couple of lives.
What a dick...
@@homefront3162 I agree with you. Snap rolls at all, much less with a student in the plane. The FAA did the right thing.
Snap roll in a 172? In the pattern? Wow. I’m shocked you didn’t have him reported after that. Could have easily killed you.
@@yamacat4010 maybe the FAA admin was there the next day because he did complain
Reminds me of when I took a pre purchase flight in a Cessna 172 in Florida. The guy flying was a 50 year old career instructor complete with ray bans and leather jacket. His demeaner and appearance screamed "look at me I'm cool...I'm a pilot ". As soon as we leveled off out of our climb he said "...want me to show you what this can do?" I said no it's a 172 I know what it can do I just want to see if I want to buy this one. I tested avionics and nav instruments , radios and controls and went back in for a safe landing.
4dhoneybee 1 • I hope you went elsewhere to buy - that old youngster-wanna-be probably mistreated every aircraft in the lot.
4dhoneybee
Like the intro flight I took with local school instructor was about 21 years old waiting for airline to hire him back after being laid off on his first day back in 2011. My friend and I wanted to take an intro flight he says it's okay for 3 of us to go up in the 172SP my friend is 290 lbs I'm about 210 instructor maybe 110 lbs. I question the weight he says it's at max but not exceeding he says we will burn off fuel waiting we are okay after take off he says wow sure didn't climb like I thought it would LOL. Later a friend of mine who is a 310 pilot said those instructors are called "Wet behind the ear instructors".
“I’d LOVE to see what this thing can do. From the airport parking lot. We’re landing. My plane.”
Giada_De_Low_Rent_Tits Especially if he points at his crotch
I trained in a Tomahawk in 1980. As a PP student, I gave a thumbs up to my CFI when he asked me if it would bother me to do a barrel roll. He did two of them. Watching this video makes me shudder thinking of what could have been when I was young.
I now reflect back over 40 years and realize I was young, dumb, and stupid being trained by a young, dumb, and stupid CFI. Glad to say I did NOT take his hot dog habits with me. Even after I got my PPL that same year I flew my plane like a little old lady going to church on Sundays. Always careful, conservative, and refused to risk me, my passengers, or my plane. Those are the habits I still practice today.
Good for you on developing unselfish habits and being respectful of others lives, you are a credit to aviation and an example to pilots everywhere
I also got my PP in Tomahawk back in 84 and around that time went to see Iron Eagle movie with a glider friend. I was stunned to see a barrel roll perfectly executed in a Tomahawk in that movie altough even more so I knew this wasn't a certified acro aircraft and you would need to be quite stupid to even think about doing one in it. A year after I trained for my acro extension and this is when I learned that all aircraft "could" do a barrel roll if well executed (i.e. 1G during the whole figure, start with a hefty nose up attitude so you exit with little nose down)
Without someone to haul him back, that instructor was going to get it sooner or later. Unfortunately he took two victims with him. So sad.
I'm as far from aviation as anyone can be, yet I'm hooked to these videos for their general validity in life lessons.
When I was younger I would watch tons of videos like these. Now I’m applying to schools and their flight programs and getting ready for my check ride.
Then the videos probably show to you that pilots are a representative cut through the population, with highly professional ones among them, but also extremely stupid and reckless mentalities among them as well. And that is not only the PPLs!
Watching this I'm never going to ride on a plane ever again. But if i were forced to , in going to be a nervous wreck the whole flight
I did some spins and spin recovery in a C172 with my CFI, for my private pilot license. It is not required by the FAA, but i think it made me a better and safer pilot.
I think that a pilot should know the limitations of the aircraft, and that includes unusual attitudes. It should be practiced safely, with a CFI, at enough altitude, and NOT overstress the airplane.
I'm all in favor of spin training, and I wanted to do it, but two things stopped me. Spin recovery in a C172 is basically let go of the controls. Apparently you have to give constant rudder input to maintain a spin in a 172 with no one in the back seat, so to get meaningful experience would mean learning to fly a different type. (I'm a big guy, so the C172 was my trainer. Dual in a new type meant $$$ that I really preferred to spend just flying.) The other thing is that before I made up my mind I lost my medical. I can fly as a light sport pilot, but I don't know if there is a light sport category plane that could carry me, an instructor, and enough gas to take off. (I'm 6'6" and about 300 lb. The C172 was pretty intimate already.)
Back in the early 1970s I took aerobatic instruction in a 180hp Decathelon which was rated for aerobatics.Jettisonable door and parachutes supplied. Learned spin (normal and inverted) recovery, coordinated slow rolls, inverted flight, Immelmans, snap rolls, loops, and one Lomcevak. Never did another Lomcevak because I apprised it too hard on the airframe and especially on the crankshaft and propeller. I heard that my instructor was later killed while pushing the envelope at an airshow flying his Pitts. I didn't do aerobatics in other aircraft but it was good knowing that if I somehow ended up in an unusual attitude, I wouldn't freak out because I knew how to recover. I prided myself on being always calm and competent rather than being bold.
I had a CFI show me how to do wing overs in a 152 when I was training for my PPL. Later that week, I tried to demonstrate the maneuver to another CFI. Just one problem...I forgot to pull the power, and in a heartbeat, we were diving towards the ground at Vne. That was my last wing over!
Oy. At Vne, it very well could have been your last anything. That's a stupid level of luck.
Did you die?
During my first training flight, my instructor performed a three-rotation spin. He wanted to show me the worst likely scenario. It was in a C152, which is rated for spin training. I know of no CFIs that would be as careless as the one in the video.
Now imagine renting a plane that this yahoo demonstrated his "skills" in
Over stressing the wings leaving them fragile n ready to go
In 1992 I bought a little Piper got my wings and figured I was a hot dog. I started doing barrel rolls with it, until finally I pushed it too far one day ran out of gas landed in the water. Pilot career done! You have to be careful when you come over the top of the apogee as you will pick up speed on the down leg, and possibly rip the Wings off!
Straight up bullshit. You'd be dead.
A perfectly executed barrel roll is a 1g maneuver
@@samuelseidel6148 Airframe not approved for aerobatics. Don't do aerobatics. Simple. Aviation rules are not to be fucked with. They are there for a reason. Besides, you don't think this guy tried some other maneuvers? What if he didn't execute it perfectly?
I flew this exact plane at this time working on CPL, but this crash ruined that as there wasn't a plane to fly now and then the economy went South in 2008.
Thinking back I had flown a 172 about three weeks prior and the artificial horizon was inop because it was tumbled. This instructor had just come back from flying that plane. No telling the other damage on the plane.
I went on a trip to Castaway 1770, it's an island here in Australia you have to fly to. We flew there in a Cessna,me and one other guy, with the pilot who seemed to be a decent guy. Once in the air that changed and he was truly a lunatic. He told the guy in the front to look out his window and then violently banked to the extent the passenger would have fallen out has he not been strapped in. It was terrifying, acrobatics and dives the whole way. Lo and behold one of the planes crashed in 2017 killing one passenger. I believe they claimed engine failure but it was an accident waiting to happen.
Every pilot knows a guy like this. It takes a huge amount of confidence and guts to stand up to one of these pilots and tell them they're flying unsafely, especially if they have a cavalier attitude or they're a so-called 'alpha male'. It's way better to make enemies for doing what is safe over being the most popular guy in the cemetery. Let them call you a pussy, let them think you're an arsehole but don't be the guy who sits quietly while the plane crashes.
Both students were italians and one of them was a guy from our aeroclub in Mantova. RIP Andrea
How old were they?
MrMowky 13
@Terry Melvin It's extremely irresponsible, but there was no intention to kill. He should've known what it was he was doing, but he didn't plan to do it. Some people are that stupid.
@@Raison_d-etre If I intentionally do something (repeatedly) that has a significant chance of killing you. And I kill you, then it was intentional, Morally and Ethically.
Let's say I avoid the maneuvers & land safely (the other possible outcomes). Would you say I "unintentionally" arrived safely?
I know you are trying to make a point, but with the wrong wording. What we might say, is "he didn't do it with Malice" if being generous.
@@Raison_d-etre Lots of people drink and drive with no intention of killing anyone either.
If the wings rip off remember to cut power so you don't hit so hard.
At that height I dont think itd matter😂
And be sure to put your helmet on, too.
"There are bold pilots and old pilots. There are no old, bold pilots."
Actually it's a very old saying ....first heard it about 1965 in indiana
I’ve watched many interviews of Veteran pilots from WWll and Vietnam who would surely disagree loll! I do get and like the quote tho I’m not tryna sound like a jerk😂
Well, not since Chuck Yeager died.
There’s a few old school test pilots and astronauts that might disagree.... but they were bold as extremely experienced pilots in deliberate situations and controlled environments. They also did not needlessly risk the lives of innocent people while flying boldly :)
@@kevindoyle8721 I think flying in unavoidably dangerous situations and avoidable ones are totally different. Combat rewards aggression. Regular life is a mixed bag at best.
At least when rock climbers, bungee jumpers and high divers exhibit perilous behavior, they are only risking their own lives. Pilots must think of passengers as well as those who might be on the ground when they crash. How many times have we seen burnt wreckage and collateral damage at the crash site?
I regard flying primarily as a means of elegant and quick travel, associated with risks that are to be managed and avoided as much as possible. My general rule for flying with passengers is, the more "boring" the flight is, the better - and my passengers usually love it.
Come for the case study, stay for the life advice
Read or listen to "Orbit" by John J. Nance. It's got space, planes, and more life lessons than you could ever want. Damn good book.
Hot Soup thanks for the recommendation :)
These videos are so informative, but so sobering. I get a knot in my stomach just knowing that something bad (tragic) is going to happen. RIP to all.
When I was in the Air Guard two of our pilots got drunk at the officer's club one evening after a drill. On a dare they went out onto the flight line and started the engines on a transient T-38 that was parked out there. A buddy of mine and I saw this happen and we reported it. Once the incident was verified the two pilots were both gone. Their flying careers with the Air Force were over and with something like that on their records I doubt they would have gotten very far trying to fly in commercial aviation either.
The problem with being a hot dog is that sooner or later, you're going to get cooked.
Underrated comment.
Yep....it never fails....some macho pilot thinks he can fly just as good as Bob Hoover. Reminds me of the quote regarding the fact that "There are some old pilots and there are some bold pilots, but not too many old bold pilots." Very true.
Ditto.
holywells 💖 I love that
Yes there are. we who hold multiple certificates in multiple types of aircraft including expermential's. The old one's are far smarter than today's LCD screen boob's.
This particular case, this guy was a danger to his passenger's. Poor piloting decision's.
I first saw this quote from you and I will always remember that.
During time building I flew with a jackass that would do pitch overs randomly and abruptly. He thought my reactions were funny apparently. I dropped him, he can dig his own smoking crater on his own time. These attitudes are too common.
The narrator has a Forensic Files kind of demeanor.
Keith Morrison?
True, although he sounds a lot better.
I think the ones that knew what he was doing and not reporting him should be reprimanded in some way.
He ll have to live with that for the rest of his life Alan.
@@jerrymarshall2095 and her. in work situations the tolerance for this once witnessed usually means he's related to someone up above in management. that would 'splain his behaviour and theirs.
Absolutely! That don't dob in a mate culture when your 'mate' is obviously risking people's lives needs to be challenged and dealt with seriously! NTSB, CASA and Aviation Authorities take note! Serious Fines, Compulsory Courses on human behaviour to keep your licence and/or Jail, especially when people have been killed!
@@jerrymarshall2095 Who is Alan?
@@asticou04 Jerry Marshall has lost the plot!
I'm in other industries and this type of entitlement is usually shown by someone who is related, or went to school with, the principal company owners. Almost always. Their "license" has a special no fault and no blame get out of jail free card. The problem with flight is that physics doesn't recognize this, and like Julius in Pulp Fiction, has a 'retort> that is permanent.
Wings on Pipers sometimes snap off when they rotate for takeoff. Can't imagine performing aerobatics in one.
Exactly, I was just thinking the same thing. They have a corrosion problem where the fuel tank is located in the wing, and can spread to the front and rear spars....Yikes!
@@copperheadh1052 and you're based in HUMID Florida. Not a great place for desert dryness.
Wasn’t that addressed with an AD
I worked for an air freight company in Michigan, which also functioned as a full service FBO. My experience there involved interacting with GA, Commercial, Military, Corporate, and freight pilots. Most were very professional, but some of them I didn’t trust going into the bathroom, let alone flying with! It’s like that in all professions.
Te saddest part is that this guy was known to be a risk in the air, therefore those that knew this are in fact to blame as well, sadly there was more than one culprit here!
freda: No it's not a liberal response. It is the truth that in aviation everyone in the organization must police the behavior of all pilots and provide correction or punishment to those who do not follow the rules of safe flying.
@fred a So the people who knew about a problem and were in a position to do something about it dont share any responsibility?
@Tony Yomomma And your invalid response is typical of the reflexive (mindless?) thinking far too common in today's world. Please, consider the benefits of applying thoughts to individual cases without the need to inaccurately stereotype. Delete your worthless comment.
General Manager, Chief Pilot, and Primary Instructor are to blame, and should've been held accountable.
@Tony Yomomma Yeah like how you think it's somehow someone else's fault that those people decided not to warn authorities of criminally negligent deadly aviation practices they knew were happening. They are not responsible for their own decision to not warn anyone who could prevent innocent deaths, right? Who IS responsible for their decision according to you, the magic cowardice/laziness fairy that put a spell on them to force them to do nothing?
Problem is with this, any "colleague" who had dobbed this guy in would have NOT been applauded for doing the right thing, instead, he/she would have been vilified for being a "dog".
It's easy for government bureaucrats in a studio to say what should have been done according to the rules, and easy for them to point a finger, but in reality, if they were on the spot, they would have shrunk into the background like all others who don't want to be vilified or victimized!
Right on. Well said!
BS ... you're a hateful troll.
They didn't care enough about shit that wasn't their own.
Remember, this was in Texas... the I-don't-give-a-fuckabout-anybody-else-but-me-and-don't you-fuckin-dare-try-to-regulate-me state.
Its actually in real small print somewhere on their state flag
Yes, especially if he's the popular guy with all the friends.
Afraid you are correct
People are akin to water and electricity: EDIT: Left to their own devices, they will follow the path of least resistance and gravitate to the lowest possible point.
Yea terra firma
This metaphor is all too accurate sometimes, I can attest to this unfortunately. Haven’t made it to the lowest point yet but was well on my way. Those around me were ill equipped to stop me(not their faults). I had to stop myself and I’m still slowly struggling to climb back up :)
These videos are humbling and inspire me to take responsibility for myself and the well being those close to me :)
As a matter of fact now it is time to put down the phone and go do something productive. After, hopefully do something to better some else’s day as well.
Anyone that may read this, I wish you the best in your own journey through life :) Blue Sky’s!
Would love to see more of these. Keep em coming.
I'd like to never see another one, but I know what you mean.
Great advice at the end of the video. Well said.
That applies to many aspects of life and business.
Not just aerobatics. I had a very young "instructor" who wanted me to practice an approach with a simulated electrical failure, which really meant a no-flaps landing. He insisted in turning off the master switch which meant no radio and no electric fuel boost pump. I turned it on again and said "OK, no flaps" and proceeded with the flat approach over some obstacles, but he turned the master switch off again, which meant we risked a real emergency if the fuel pressure had dropped. So I turned it on again and a battle began until I kept my hand over the switch, which was on my side anyway. The whole affair was a dangerous distraction as I wasn't controlling the throttle and after landing he started yelling that he was the instructor. Needless to say, I never flew with him again but anyway he vanished from the club a few weeks later. Who was right?
You were absolutely right. CRM is not just for qualified pilots. It extends to any flight. If an instructor does something reckless then you have every right to prevent him or her being so. I've met quite a few reckless CFIs in the past. Each time that was the last flight I would take with them. There are plenty of decent instructors and the best thing is to seek them out and challenge a flight school if they insist you go with someone you feel uncomfortable with. The other poisonous category of CFIs is the type that shouts all the time and turns you into a bag of nerves. They should be avoided.
He may be the instructor, but you're the one paying for the lesson. If you feel at all worried about a situation, it's time to speak up. You did really well there. There is no reason to make a simulated emergency turn into a real emergency "Just for practice". Pilots have died doing these sorts of stunts.
Also, there is a very tiny chance this will actually show up in a practical pilot's test but I guarantee the DPE will not ask you to turn off your electrical for a "Simulated electrical failure" just like there's no way in hell the DPE will tell you to turn off your mags/fuel in a simulated engine failure. DPEs are measuring your response to scenarios and they're definitely watching to see how you behave.
You were.
That's a lesson that can be applied to many industries that deal with potentially dangerous situations.... Like law enforcement.
Excellent as always! Good lesson and expertly written and narrated!
Giving GA yet another black eye.
I went up with a friend in college in a Piper Warrior. He started diving to build up airspeed to do wing overs. I told him that I was not cool with doing aerobatic maneuvers in something not built for aerobatic loads and asked him to stop. He later told me he used to file and fly IFR plans in IFR conditions before he had his instrument rating.
There was a pilot here at KRHV who accepted IFR clearance without an instrument rating. He's now the star at one of the ACS episodes, "Blind Over Bakersfield"
Sorry about your loss.
@@dboy4ever I remember that episode for lots of reasons, but in it the narrator said that, had the pilot gotten clearance and gone to a higher altitude, he could've gotten above the weather and the trip have a good outcome. I thought, With three oxygen cannulae and four passengers (his wife and 3 children), how could there have had a good outcome? Two of them would've died of anoxia.
@@nonmihiseddeo4181 Good point.
@@nonmihiseddeo4181 I don't remember what the flight levels were but I would guess most people are ok (uncomfortable but ok) up to around 20000 feet which is probably well above the Cherokee ceiling anyway. For example Everest base camp is abt 17500. Having said that I remember once flying at 14000 in an unpressurised Bandierante and definitely noticing my breathing had got heavier.
I love these videos. please do more. the narrator is amazing.
Great videos. Keep them coming
Narration absolutely fantastic. Perfect voice. Excellent clip
Love these short shows
Don't just sit idly by if you witness bad behavior is a lesson that applies to many aspects of life, especially if you have the power to speak out about it.
Thank you.
Back in the '90s when I was in A&P school in Oakland, Ca. I heard a story similar to this one where a CFI had a habit of wrinkling the skin on the school's planes just for fun. He repeatedly brushed off warnings until one flight he broke the wings off a plane. I can't find any legit info on that story.
Flight school management should be made responsible for the deaths.
Agreed. The school should absolutely be shut down and the CFIs fired. Beyond unacceptable they all knew it was going on.
@@yamacat4010 What STATE did the plane fall in?? the photos don't look like the Florida I know, but in most jurisdictions AROUND THE WORLD this needs to be addressed: i.e. the commuter plane companies in Europe where it's impossible to find out who even owns the plane, or the company, or the leasee.
I would have found the best aviation lawyer and sued them out of business
I have completed all videos, how can I get my certificate?
Very good vid, and lesson, for anyone stepping into an aircraft
My instructor was like this as well. He had me do a simulated emergency once where he didn't have me put power back in till we were about 20-30ft above some farmer's field. There was even a rumor that he flew under a bridge once.
He took his football buddy up for a flight one day so he could propose to his girlfriend. That was the last time I spoke with him, he never returned.
Do you know the tail number?
@@NicholasLittlejohn No, but here is an article about the event. www.post-gazette.com/uncategorized/2005/08/29/Flight-to-happiness-turns-tragic/stories/200508290142
That's awful. They're paying you to keep them alive as they figure out how to fly an aircraft. You want to do acrobatics, do that shit in a plane rated for it on your own time. Student pilots may not know the limitations of the potential aircraft and you can give them bad habits or worse, kill them by overstressing the aircraft to the point of literally ripping it apart as seen in this video. Even worse, the CFIs who know better do nothing to voice their concerns over it. Just pitiful all around.
“There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots.”
euryofbongos. We know this. IT IS POSTED IN EVERY FUCKING COMMENT SECTION.
Chuck Yeager.
fob, did you make that up yourself?
Thank you for the video.
That sounds like a lawsuit. The flight school knew what was going on and didn't do anything to prevent any future unsafe actions, which killed two people.
They were not American, so they don't immediately think to sue over everything. Also, they're dead.
1:00 I saw Bob Hoover doing aerobatics in a twin engine Aero Commander, but this was Bob Hoover. Most pilots are NOT Bob Hoover.
and hoovers planes were modified to do these things
I watched him In 1989 He could make that Rockwell fly like a Pitts. I doubt there’s more than a few folks who could pull it off .
Have you seen the Aero Commander cockpit video where Bob Hoover pours coffee from a flask into a cup on the panel (left handed so the camera can catch it) whilst flying a perfectly balanced positive 1g barrel roll? Don't try this at home!
@@johnnyllooddte3415 : No modifications to my knowledge. I saw him several times. The whole point was to demonstrate the strength of the Aero Commander 500S Shrike aircraft out of the box. I have been around them since 1972 and currently operate, maintain, and fly a "Twin" Commander.
There is a big difference between Bob Hoover performing smooth G-controlled aerobatic maneuvers, and a less experienced pilot performing snap rolls. The snap roll is one of the more airframe stressing maneuvers, and I don't recall Bob ever doing one in an Aero Commander.
This announcer is my favorite of the group.
Amazing how reckless his peers where to his behavior. Turned a blind eye
Hotdogs are for BBQs not flying.
Veggie dogs are better for our hearts too.
@@NicholasLittlejohn GMO soy? Not!
TheUtuber999 agreed
This is that guy who goes into the bar to tell women "So you know...I fly planes. I'm an instructor. Hey, do you wanna get out of here?"
Your voice makes me shiver from second one :-)
THAT CFI IS INSANE !
Reminds me of my second flight ever with my first instructor who actually fully killed the engine for engine out practice
1 pictures you have pictures from different planes in this thing showing the debris
That’s what’s scary about renting planes. You never know what someone done or will report.
0:25 T-tail
2:44 Low-mounted horizontal stabilizer
it moved because of the crash!
Are there more of these videos to be made?
Fellow CFIs: Yeah, he's been known to take risks. But what can do? We don't wanna lose a good instructor!
Me: Yeah, well I don't wanna wind up dead!
BTW, watching "TOP GUN" on repeat does not make you Maverick.
There's an equivalent lesson here for ground traffic too... Do you know people who drive drunk, or on their cellphones, or who like to speed for the thrill? When you're traveling, do you see a driver who's manoevring dangerously, breaking the law, cutting corners? In our country, we have a "dangerous driver report" number you can call or text, & I imagine many other places must too. In my mind, if we stand idly by while these people endanger others, we too are culpable if they maim or kill anyone.... And unfortunately, they rarely take out only themselves when they push it too far. Generally there is some poor innocent (far too often a parent with small children onboard) who bears the brunt of their recklessness 😔
High G in a Piper.... No. I wouldn't even BE in a Piper in the first place (unless it was a cub, ie, braced). not after the Embry Riddle (I think it was, some school anyway) incident last year.
BTW, what software is being used for the video recreations?
This CFI should never have gotten his CFI license. Even student pilots know not to do acrobatic maneuvers in a normal category aircraft especially if they banned on the PoH. Even spins aren't applicable in most normal category aircraft (Although technically my aircraft allows it with full flaps). If you want to do acrobatics, save it for an acrobatic airplane in an airframe that will allow the G force. One screwup in the maneuver is all it takes to plunge into the ground or break up in the air.
Also, these are student pilots. They are paying YOU to help them, not get them killed. Your job shouldn't be to take over the aircraft with the exception of getting out of bad situations, teaching maneuvers, landings, takeoffs, unusual attitudes and as a safety pilot utilizing foggles. These guys need the time to figure out how to fly and fly safely, not pick up bad habits from someone thinking they're in TopGun.
outstanding studies
You should be doing documentaries with such good voice and diction.
He is.
Fairchild AFB (Spokane WA) lost a B-52 in the early ‘90s due to the same reason this accident happened...a hotdog pilot whose irrational flight behaviors were known to the staff, and who essentially just gave a verbal “knock it off” suggestion and did not follow up.
I was stationed at Fairchild a few years before that accident. There was a general culture at that base of having good old boys who were untouchable and who could do whatever they wanted. Also, Holland's B-52 crash was the second major accident there during airshow practice. A few years earlier there was a KC-135 that crashed during a low level pass while following a B-52. The KC-135 got caught in the B-52's wake turbulence and crashed in a field next to the base operations building. All six on the tanker were killed along with one person on the ground. What made it even scarier was that on airshow day there would have been hundreds of people in that field watching the show and the KC-135 would have crashed right on top of them.
A lot of the pilots I know are exactly like that, only extremely skilled and experienced. They have flown for decades without incidence. The difference is, they didn't start doing that overnight and they don't encourage others who are unskilled to do it. The problem wasn't the aerobatics. It was that he was flying beyond his skill level in order to show off. Don't let your ego write checks that you might cash with your life. Pride goes before a fall and a haughty heart before destruction... and in aviation, that applies literally.
Were they practising stalls?
Gravity is for everyone...
RIP to the two students.
Did I just read that that guy did a barrel roll in a 172? That's super scary
+Aaron Baldwin Not super scary at all. In fact.. the 172 is better at barrel rolls than a Citabria is. When done properly... it introduces less stress on the aircraft than a steep turn.. and far less stress than a spiral dive recovery.
Where it is scary is when amateurs figure they can just do it after seeing it or experiencing it. Too often.. the roll is entered with too low of an airspeed, not enough of a pitch up, and too close to the ground. Loose items aren't secured, and often the pilot flails about in a loose harness during light or negative G.
Of course, a barrel roll is illegal in a 172 unless you have a special authorization or waiver to do so. But safe isn't always legal.. and legal isn't always safe.
+Bartonovich52 172's are not designed to do rolls. Not to mention that your engine would fail if you rolled that airplane inverted.
Out of curiosity, do you even know what a barrel roll is? A Barrel roll is a roll preformed at a constant 1 G. *Assuming pilot ability,* any airplane can safely do one. Assuming pilot ability. The question of legality is an entirely different ball of wax. Legal isn't always safe and illegal isn't always unsafe.
Look up Bob Hoover pouring iced tea and Tex Johnson barrel rolling the 707. There you will see examples of 2 very capable pilots rolling transport category aircraft completely safely without any sort of inverted oil or fuel systems.
I'm assuming you are talking about dumping the ailerons one way or the other until the airplane is completely inverted.
Correct me if you have your own definition a "barrel roll".
Cessna 172 Skyhawks are not designed to do any acrobatics aside from an occasional stall spin. The fuel is fed to the engine through fuel lines inside the cabin which use gravity to draw fuel from the tanks into the engine. If the airplane is rolled inverted for any length of time the engine will no longer be receiving fuel and you will have an engine failure. Not to mention that the aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft would be immensely different inverted, and you would probably exceed the critical angle of attack more than once and enter a spin.
+VinyT2423 You really should look up the definitions before you start assuming. You *don't* know what a barrel roll is. A barrel role starts with a slight pitch up attitude and then uses aileron to roll and pitch to maintain a positive load on the airplane. You should look up what the definition is. We are using the standard definition. What you are describing is most similar to an aileron roll, but not really. It actually isn't a prescribed maneuver at all.
A 172 may not be designed for aerobatics, but neither are the Beach 18 or Shrike commander. Both of those aircraft have been used in very successfully in airshows.
And look, you are obsessed with the gravity fed system. I suggest you go up with an instructor had have them demonstrate a 60 degree steep turn. You will notice that down is not toward the ground. The very fact that you bring it up shows you know nothing about aerobatics. You can make any direction you want appear to be up to the airplane.
And no, an inverted airplane has no difference in flight characteristics. An airplane will always preform the same way. All the airplane cares about is the relative wind. This is why a barrel roll is such an easy maneuver on the airplane. As far is it is concerned it is just rolling as it would to enter a normal turn. If the pilot knows what he is doing, that is.
It seems Pipers and Cirrus aircraft crash a lot. Not mechanical but due to pilot error. Its strange really.
It is easy judge the supervisor for not turning on this CFI who was a serial showoff. The reality is we all tolerate some "bad behavior" from colleagues (I work in medicine--we have the same). We counsel them, and we give them second chances. It's human nature. I don't blame the supervisor. I blame the rules, both written and informal, within which she had to operate. There should be a set of rules designed in, that must be followed, taking away any choice in disciplining of bad behavior.
Perhaps, this is one situation where a modern GPS-based flight-tracking program could be used to modify behavior, much like car insurance APPs are used to modify driving behavior. If an instructor is recorded performing unusual maneuvers, or pulling too many Gs once, they're on the watch list. If they do it again, they're grounded for a month. If they do it a third time, the firing is automatic. Something like that.
Instructor Robert William Davey, 29, of DeSoto, Luca Visani, of Cesena, Italy, Andrea Venturini, of Mantova, Italy.
It seems too that skydive operations attract ‘bolder’ type pilots who are trying to build time and perhaps have earned their CFI endorsement. The game of beating the jumpers to the ground is very commonplace in my observations. We lost 5 at our local airport because one such pilot did an extreme maximum take off. While hanging it on the prop, the engine blew a jug and the old Cessna 182 snapped into a spin. No room for error. The same pilot was doing knife-edges so low he had to roll level to clear the tetrahedral earlier in the day.
Well, my experience was stated above but I also have a "C" license. If it had been at my Drop Zone the pilot would be in the hospital recovering from an ass-kickin'.
I really have no answers to why the pilot was not grounded or fired. I will tell you to this day there are no ‘Jump’ operations at this airport. I don’t know the reasons for this either. It could be city political reasons or financial. Who knows.
If I had gone up with that instructor, when we landed, I would have punched him out.
For you I would recommend training in assertiveness, anger management and conflict resolution.
TomBrooklyn nah I don't agree... I would've too.
No, this isn't an anger management issue... when people's fears are toyed with, I wouldn't blame them for that sort of response. It wouldn't be my response, but scaring people draws strong emotions. If it were me, I'd have made sure that instructor was out of a job and stripped of his credentials.
They didn't land, kinda the problem
he d have never made it to landing i i was with him
Everyone should take responsibility and report reckless behavior like this.
I've had my own experience with having to report someone for reckless flying in a FAR 121 charter outfit. Now this behavior is on his record.
After watching dozens of these stories on UA-cam, I’ve come to a few conclusions. One of them being that the FAA appears to be in need of a complete overhaul.
Captain Howie, you are right on target!
When it takes 20 years to develop a new aviation radar and it's STILL not finished AND when it takes 2 years for them to produce results of a crash, it's time to FIRE EVERYBODY and START OVER. TOO MUCH deadwood trying to increase their govt retirement. USELESS MORONS
General aviation aircraft are not certificated for aerobatics flight of any kind.The only ones are stated in the POH and placarded in the aircraft.If you want to fly aerobatics fly an aerobatics aircraft or get into flying radio control model planes.
Not a pilot, but this reminds me of my friends who are "good drivers" that endanger the lives of others in their car and on the road by doing stupid shit
I am a little curious. Did the plane crash from control loss or did it brake up from excessive G load?
Exceeding "maneuvering speed"
Probably over-stressed the airframe resulting in damage that made the plane uncontrollable.
My guess without readking the full NTSB report
Per the NTSB report, the airplane "was destroyed during an in-flight break up and subsequent impact with terrain".
www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20071119X01812&ntsbno=DFW08FA031&akey=1
www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20071119X01812&ntsbno=DFW08FA031&akey=1 is the report
_On November 15, 2007, approximately 1500 central standard time (CST), a single-engine Piper PA-28R-200 airplane, N55307, was destroyed during an in-flight break up and subsequent impact with terrain, near Ranger, Texas. The flight instructor, foreign-certificated private pilot, and one passenger were fatally injured. The airplane was registered to and operated by Skymates Inc., of Arlington, Texas. The 132-nautical mile cross country flight departed Arlington Municipal Airport (GKY), Arlington, Texas, about 1348 and was destined for the Abilene Regional Airport (ABI) near Abilene, Texas. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and a visual flight rules flight plan was filed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 instructional flight._
both
it crashed from illegal contact with the scene of the crime
Smells of Lt Col "Bud" Holland all over again.
Exactly! Glad I saw your post...was going to mention it, myself.
Fairchild B52?
@@oates76 Yup -- 24 Jun 1994...such a sad day.
Just about to say that myself.
My thought too
Wonder if the pilot/or student, was performing an engine out stall and couldn’t relight the engine? Since they went to FL110, winged over, and then couldn’t regain control?
My CFI is one of the best dudes and a great pilot. Feel lucky to have had that rather than the other options... I spent a week with a new cfi who was a wreck less moron. He was fired a few months after he got the job and I went back to my original CFI. Last month I got to take him for a ride in the airplane I just purchased and it was a full circle moment.
I once had an instructor who demonstrated a rapid decent right over a neighboring uncontrolled airport & the impossible turn, a bunch of other reckless BS. Needless to say I complained to the chief instructor & requested a different one (an old boring pilot). Happy with my decision. However, the chief pilot practically defended him & he still "teaches" here.
the good old boy club.
@@nissanbuyer All fun and games until shit hit the fan.
A friend of mine instructor thought that spinning his 1968 Cessna 177 Cardinal was ok, what an idiot!
Here's the link the NTSB report: www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20071119X01812 (NTSB Identification: DFW08FA031)
When CSB or OSHA doesn't have new videos, I get here.