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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Want to include a small Lithium Ion or Lithium Ion Polymer battery into your next project? It's easy! Dave gives you the low down on how they work and how to charge them and select a suitable charging IC.
NOTE: For safety you should always use circuit protected cells as per the larger cell I was holding up. It protects against over-discharge, over-voltage, shorts etc.
(BTW, the reference to Lithium Ion Polymer being the same as Lithium Ion is in terms of charging, if that was not clear. The Ion Polymer type have polymer anode material and hence a different construction that allows the small pouch type cells shown in the video, and other thin odd shapes shown toward the end)
Dave Jones you are my favorite UA-cam personality. I would follow you anywhere. I only wish that I lived in Australia because then I would ask if I could be shop boy. I would sweep floors, scrub toilets and dismantle electronics for you. I would work for beans and biscuits. I would put a cot in the broom closet and call that home. Is it true that you have a locker at the bottom of the sea where pirates disappear to?
One thing to watch is power dissipation on the linear chargers - at charge currents over a few hundred mA, you don't need too much input-output voltage differential before the charge time gets extended due to the charger going into thermal limiting. Most of the cheap ones aren't packaged to conduct heat out well.
this guys amazing and very knowledgeable. although he looks to have been filled with a couple hundred volts over time himself.thanks for the great videos.
You've gotta love Dave's enthusiasm!
Btw, great video!!!
@@MrDoneboy=0
good job man
"the other kind of coke"
Actually past Dave, Li-poly are different from Li-Ion. Poly cells are prismatic and typically for high drain applications up to 30C, while most ion versions are for lower drain applications up to 20A and are usually manufactured as cylindrical cells
li po is li ion
Li-ion and Li-po do have a difference now some Li-Po have higher charging and nominal voltages and they are also also available in large capacity pouches where as li-ion are not and they have higher C ratings much higher compared to Li-Ion
Overall Your videos are awesome, thanks - helps a lot! :)
But story behind Li-ion, LiPo and LiFePo is a bit different.
Li-ion: Vn = 3.6V (uses transition metal ion eletrolitic compound)
LiPo: Vn=3.7V (uses synthetic polymer compounds as eletrolite lowering internal resistance... this is where +0.1V in avg comes from)
LiFePo: Vn = 3.3V (same synthetic polymer compound as eletrolite + different anode that changes reaction electrochemically itself).
@chrisgj198 That's probably a separate blog on it's own, low battery detection and cutout. And that applies to any battery technology really.
"You really should know because it's interesting." Love it! :D
Once I fryed my Charger. switching it on while 3 cell battery connected.
smelld Funny and Expensive
Min 12:00 , what i dont get is . Does the battery voltage increase because the charger increases the voltage ? Or is the charger applying 4.2V constantly and still the battery voltage increases just slowly ?
That was exactly what I needed. I'm interning at NASA and we're building a prototype lunar lander and rover that powers a Li-Ion/Li-Po off solar panels and we were having trouble charging and some other things.
I have a question though: Why is part 2 of the charging process (I believe it's called trickle charging) necessary? Why can't you just charge using the part 1 method up to 100%? Is it a safety thing, an efficiency thing, or something else?
Thanks
Thank you for doing this, you helped me found my business 10 years ago and I really wanted to thank you.. I was able to do so much without having gone to school because of your videos.
Yeah I think Dave said he went to electronics school but built things before that that helped him self pass through.
Minor remark: charging is never exothermic with respect to the charged battery. The heat production comes from energy loss, the energy coming from the charger. Charging must be endothermic, because the chemical reaction to deliver energy necessarily must be exothermic.
Great explanation and great videos, BTW. Thanks a lot.
I love the way the Aussies talk! :) All happy and positive 👍🏻
Can you explain please how balance chargers are implemented for simultaneous charging to cells in series?
Component level explanation as shown in this video would be appreciated.
Your enthusiasm is taking me with you :) Just found you because I was suddenly wondering how li-ion batteries charge
you're amazing thank you allllloooot i was looking for such understanding from a long time
I have a 3 (in parallele) cell Li-ion batt from sparkfun (google finds them quickly) and Im having a lot of trouble designing a charger for them because all of the Li-ion charger IC i find specify the they only charge One cell batteries but Im not sure if they refer to one cell in series or parralel? thanx in advance for any help.
If they are truly in parallel, then this would be defined as "One cell".
For this case, the current ratings for the charging circuitry would be three times that of a single individual cell.
However, the advertised specs for the whole battery may be rated for all three in parallel already.
redrok
Digital camera batteries for popular camera models can be a nice cheap source of ready-packaged batteries. Ditto camcorder ones, typically 7.2V, and also phone batteries.
Just be aware that clones tend to have 10K resistors instead of thermistors...
@TheEPROM9 Reminds me about 15 yrs ago I made a portable BBC micro - used the original case with a 320x240 mono EL display in the lid, and PSU full of nicad D-cells and a DC/DC converter. ISTR I had to mod the sound circuit to run without the -ve rail.
Best Video for understanding Lithuim Ion Charging process. Thanks Alot. Hope you upload Many more such videos dealing with electronics Stuff
@blackmuzzle You can't just make that blanket statement that "modern cells" have no problem. Read the datasheets for all those Li-Poly cells I showed. 0.5C recommended as standard charge, 1C absolute maximum for "fast charge". Always read the datasheet, cell types and their recommendations are many and varied.
Yes, some are specifically designed for very fast charging. The price you pay will usually be cell life.
@mikeselectricstuff Yep, good point Mike. Could probably do another whole blog on just how to implement the charger IC's. Many of the packages like DFN will have thermal pads on the bottom to help with dissipation. The on-chip die temp monitors usually kick in around 120degC and limit the charge current.
@vaneenbergen Lithium Ion Polymer are more robust than Lithium Ion. But if you are really concerned, try LiFePo4 as @Pook365 said, they are much safer and won't go exothermic.
@bcsupport You can get charger ICs for multi-cell packs. I've used a Microchip 2-cell one in the past
@bcsupport Most chip manufacturers have devices designed for more than 1 cell. It's usually an option in the parametric search table. You can't just use a single cell charger chip with those.
My IMax charger has a 3.6V setting for LiIon and 3.7V for LiPo, so surely there is a difference?
Hi, im from the future! Thank you for this retro lithium based batteries tutorial, now days we just use flux capacitors.
well duh, it becomes a cold fusion reactor and generates perpetual motion .
yeah i only use the baterizer when i need to get 1.21 GigaWatt more out of my Mr.Fusion.
you're right.i've had that happening to me in galaxy s7 wich ended up destroying the whole universe so i've hooked up a 1N4148 to gnd to prevent any reverse polarity. i only have 4 alternate dimensions points left on my driving licence.
The 4148 is a silicon diode which is nominally 0.7V drop. You would be far happier using a 1N5817 which is a Schottky that drops 0.2-0.3V.
How many flux capacitors do i need to drive a Death Star and make the battle station fully operational?
Dave - I've been watching EEVblog videos all weekend. Looking to get back into my hardware engineering roots. I find these incredibly useful and motivating. Thanks so much for all your work on them.
fully charged, bob’s your uncle
Im 16 years old and ive been building all kinds of circuts and started using embeded processors like the AVR's not to long ago and I just wanted to say that I love your blog and its helped me so much with learning all these concepts :)
so thanks for all your doing and keep it up.
If you could explain the working of the controller in detail, that'd be awesome!
Dave, we can always rely on you for very solid material, like this one, on Electronic Engineering. Thanks very much. Keep them coming.
Question:
1/ In a charging system, like say on an Electric car (Completely Electric), where REGENERATIVE BERAKING charges the battery, how is this possible? Since, during the REGENERATIVE BERAKING charging process, the battery is still supplying power to operate the various systems on the car (i.e Lights, radio, the Mini fridge with the cold drinks etc). I would be very grateful if you could explain how the battery gets charged during breaking AND if possible, point me to any in-depth detailed reading material, and
2/ Would this explanation apply to other battery types such as Led Acid
3/ Where could I find in-depth detailed information on Lead Acid Battery charging.
Thanks very much.
@vaneenbergen I totally forgot to mention the protection circuit built into the bigger cell I was waving around. You really should be using these protected cells, they protect against shorts, over-discharge, over-voltage etc.
With the unprotected cells, you have to take more care, and either add your own protection circuitry and/or design your product properly to ensure the battery is not abused.
Hi, I want to replace my defective laptop battery from a 15 years old PowerBook G4. It's using US18650GR cells which are rated at 2100 mAh. They have no integrated protection circuit. Is it possible to change to XTAR cells rated at 2200 mAh or maybe cells rated at 2500 mAh or 3000 mAh? Will it change the charging process and damage my power supply by using a higher current? Will the protection circuit affect the laptops behaviour? Note: when opening the battery, it seemed like there is a built in temperature sensor for the whole package of 6 cells.
Kind regards
ps i need help
my xperia z not charging and wont turn on.?.??
Hey Dave, why don't you make a video about small photovoltaic cells, MPPT and such
Is there a video on charging unprotected batteries? Would a charger know when a unprotected battery is full?
If not how do i tell if battery is full or at the end process of CV if time not available on data sheet and cant measure current
Look at his video on charging Li-ion with a bench power supply, That explains the rest.
I come back and rewatch this when I'm getting fuzzy, Dave is the best.
All Lithium ion polymer batteries are lithium ion batteries, but not all lithium ion batteries are lithium polymer.
Those which are not "polymer" are the ones which catch on fire because the electrolyte is so flammable. In polymer electrolyte batteries, the electrolyte is bound in the polymer.
Seriously appreciate the content as an aspiring creator / engineer trying to learn on my own. Advice is top notch. Bloody good channel and keep up the great vids ❤
But for the sake of "easy life" they really CAN be treated identically.
In reality they can be separated in three ways: (1) LiPo will have higher discharge rate on average than Li-ion because of lower internal resistance ... although it is relative fact, (2) besides poisonous lithium smell, LiPo smells worse than Li-ion (this is where chemistry comes in play, DO NOT CHECK THIS!!!) and (3) You can literally blow up or burst in flames LiPo where Li-ion at most will puff and become hot!
Lithium polymer is different to a standard lithium ion battery. Li ion polymer has a plastic electrolyte, while lithium ion batteries have a liquid electrolyte.
It's been 11 years since this video was posted and I'm here because I've never built a charger before and I want to learn how.
I'm here because I want to learn how phone batteries work.
@kevin29wong The flexible ones look really sexy! Just think of the apps they could be used for...
C= 1Ax1s Charles-Augustin de Coulomb, unit symbol is C "charge" am I right or not ???
Graffity and cocaine , well said
Love this guy so much hhhhh "stick with me because this is easy!" lol it's a 40-min-video
So we drone pilots are overcharging our "lipo batteries"? When you see what a lipo vs a Li-ion can do with respect to power output on a drone, then you might concede to the difference we see. I charge mine at 4c when out in the field to 4.2 per cell. Why then do all universal battery chargers differentiate lipo and lion? In my experience, lipo can dump far more power instantaneously and not be destroyed.
TP 4056 go brrrrr
👍 just watched your video and subscribed. I didn't know lith-ion & lipo were the same?! Ty.. 👍. I've got an Arrma rc brushed Motor with an ESC running on 7 cell 8.4V 3300mAh NIMH battery that is able to run lipo with pin configuration. My question is, is it possible/better to use two 7.4V 1600mAh 30c 11.84Wh lithium-ion in parallel or, in series? Or will it fry my ESC? Any help would be awesome.
What happens of you charge at lower currents than 1/2c
The generic power bank charging mpdules only put out about 1 amp
While the batteries used are usually 2000mah or 3400 mah 18650 type batteries in parallel.. Giving capacities ranging from 5000mah to 20000 mah
It will charge slow, but what impact does it have on the life span?
I am designing a portable speaker that will run on 14.8 volt li-po battery pack (4 cells)
the battery that would be RC toy battery from ebay
now think i need a "balance" charger - charger that keeps all the cells at the same voltage
those batteries have negative and positive terminals, and also 5pin balance connector - also negative and positive, and every battery connection
could you help me to choose some chip or something to balance charge, and over and undervoltage protect these batteries?
You seem smart as shit when it comes to this, and this is an 11 year old video, but your mic is very gainy. Its set to too high of a sensitivity and is picking up the quiet noises, and shocked by the slightly louder ones. if you have this issue on the more modern videos, look into some audio software that corrects this in post without an engineer.
What it the best way to charge Lithium-ion batterers to maintain the life of the battery in a device like the 7 inch Kindle Fire tablet? By battery life, I mean the life of the battery before it will needs replacement.
Some say it should be completely discharge about once a month. However, I also heard that is only valid for the old nickel-cadmium batteries.
I have LiFEPO4 batteries 4 packs total voltage 12.8 VDC and I have 4 solar panels total 200 watts, if I connect these panels in parallel it can provide approximately 15 VDC but if I connect them in sequence it can provide either 30, 45 or 60 VDC, please advise which voltage charge is best for my LiFePO4 batteries and if I charge it with 60 VDC can it damage my batteries?
Thank you! I had very little knowledge of the charging characteristics of lithium ion cells. I watched a couple videos on the topic and came away confused. I didn’t know there was a constant current charge cycle followed by a constant voltage charge cycle. As always, I thought you explained it extremely well and I easily understood what you were saying. I have often said, how much you learn is not as dependent on how smart you are but how smart your teacher is. Thank you!
this guys amazing and very knowledgeable. although he looks to have been filled with a couple hundred volts over time himself.thanks for the great videos.
Li-Ion smartphone battery is better long term storage in 3,6v or 3,7v or 3,75v or 3,8v or 3,85v?
my batteries is xiaomi BM20 and Nokia BP-5L
i want to remplace the old dead lead cells in a POWER BACK UP cyber power. can I just wire 4-3.2A Lifepo cells on series, the seller say these should be charge at 3.7. the Vout from the unit is 13.73V.
Hi
I need to charge a li-ion 3s pack with my car alternator (14.4V). Because the alternator could overheat I want to manage the current to the battery. (cell balancing is handled trough bms)The thing is my charge current should go up to 60A, I can't find these kind of chips for these currents. Do know a solution/ circuit/ chip for this problem?
Thanks
Those Microchip chargers look quite a good deal for a simple application. thanks for the video Dave.
I just bought a 'hoverboard' that has a 42v battery pack (I think its 20x18650). The board was hardly used and the battery died and is now showing only 3.1v. Is it possible and safe to recharge this?
I don't want to say it is b*llsh*t but I did some experiments and it turns out that the battery regulates itself. The only thing you need to be sure of is the maximum voltage (must be exactly the same as the battery rating), very critical and the maximum current (limit) that is allowed to flow when charging. When you do this, take care of, it works absolutely fine. Overcharging and other dangerous woowoo is impossible when correctly configurated. The voltage drops already when the battery is empty and than the current is at maximum (allowed). That's not magical. When the voltage rises of the battery, the current drops and reach zero when the voltage is equal to input voltage. That means the battery is full and the charging stops automatically because there is no voltage/potential difference. That's not magic. When you simply use a voltage meter and a current meter you can see what is going on. You only need a 'special' charger IC when you don't (want to) take care of the basics yourself. It isn't something special to simply charge a battery, most of it is natural behaviour. A specialized charger IC makes only a difference when it can decide to charge or not to charge. That is a property that can really make a difference.
I am an avid watcher of your channel but pretty ignorant when it comes to all the circuits. I own several Baofeng BF888 radios and left the radios in the charger for 2 days and the cheap charger not only did not charge them but they depleted them down to 20-30 mv. Any suggestions on the UA-cam video on modifying the stock charger using a TP4056 and changing one of the resistors to the 2k style to get 500 ma charge?
I probably missed it, but is there a maximum amp hour limit for charging? Like if you had a charger ment for one battery but you put a 100 batterys in parallel what would happen?
My battery has 3 terminals and is for a Wacom PTH-851 graphics tablet. How can I utilize the 3rd terminal in charging Li-Ion batteries???
A 40 minute video about charging batteries without showing you how to charge a battery
i got a little pump that uses a lithium ion 18650 battery, the circuit reposnsible for charging it failed (Water got in)... everything else still works. I take it I cant just bypass the circuit and use iPad or iphone (5v 1a or 5v 2a) charger to charge the battery? I need the little circuit?
just don't get it when you say it starts with just constant current.. .and not constant Voltage as well. If you wanted to manually charge the battery or make your own charger... what voltage would your power source be giving the battery on the first stage of "Pre" charging? I would assume you simple give it a regulated 4.2VDC with a CC of 20% of the rated mAh.. then when the battery voltage reaches 2.8VDC you set he CC at whatever the battery can handle.
In my case I want to build a fast charger for a 18650 battery that can handle 4A CC. Just don't get Stage 1 or Stage 3 of this presentation. When you apply power to a battery its going to be difficult to monitor Voltage if the voltage is set to 4.2V at the source.. Do you put a resistor in between the source and battery then monitor the voltage at the battery's + with coparators? Please shed some light as there are no proper charger out there that can do what I need. I would like to build a few to independently charger each cell.
What happen if you charging AA 1.2V battery with charger that give 4V ? it will keep charging but once it reaches 1.2V charged, does it keep climbing to 4V or the battery explode or what?
Dave you look so young! I didnt have white hairs either back then XD
Can someone please explain to me what would happen if you would "pour" the electrolyte from a full battery to a discharged battery? Would the discharged battery become full or is this only my imagination.... Please answer :)
❤, I discovered that when I connected a Lithium cell to a charger, the battery voltage immediately overshoot slightly above the actual battery's voltage, why is that happening, someone should explain please. Thanks in advance
OMG blah blah blah. 21 minutes in and all I want to know is what to set my variable voltage dc power supply to to manually charge my f*ing ps4 controller battery.
Dear David,
The video is very helpfull and informative to me. Kindly tell me if i want to charge a 30AH/ 12.6V or 12.3V Li battery pack which IC shall we take.
Thanks and Regards
Deepak Kapila
Great info Dave!! cheers for your efforts!!
You are like the Raw Papers guy but with electronics. (doesn't matter if you smoke or not just check him out, you won't regret watching any of his videos)
Why is my 48V ebike battery only rated at 5A max. charge current when discharge is rated at 20A max?
Willy Wonka and the Electronic Factory. Joking around aside, this is a very essential video, helped me a lot. Thanks!
Can you charge a 3.7V lithium-ion rechargable battery with 5 volts directly?
I wonder if i could mod my PowerEx MH-C9000PRO to charge LIPOs ?
try 3 battery packs in circulation on samba, keeping 1 pack for the load 1 charged and waiting or charging and 1 on charge , this way there's no charging and discharging simultaneously
Hello, your demonstration is just perfect (as others) I am trying to "revive" LIIon batteries for portable vacuum cleaners, they where not used but they are old now (exposition models)
I am not sure, if I plug my CC CV alim directly on the battery elements, may I use for instance 20% of the total voltage and 10% of the charging amp ? I tried on one cell as on the whole group and I see no amps asked by the batteries, nothing happens, SO there is no charging at all I suppose ? Thank you and sorry for the may be stupid question.
Milwaukee makes a cordless tool battery charger model 48-59-2818 that will charge both NiCd and Lithium 18 volt batteries on the same plug with no switch to indicate NiCd or Lithium. This seems contradictory since I thought the chemistry of NiCd and Lithium are completely different. Is this type of charger able to work because both batteries are 18 volt and share a common style plug?
HI, i want to use a battery charger to charge a LiPo battery, the battery must act as an UPS for a micro controller. Can I connect the power of the micro directly to the battery while it is charging? I do not want damage the micro as I have a 1200mah battery and want to charge it at 1A. Will the micro be able to draw more power from the charging circuit than that 1A?
This video maybe it's updated now have small breakout boards that charge some Lithium cells.
a flywheel diode is used to mosfet to protect it from damage but here is not needed because you don't have any coil,also I forgot to mention that the flyback diode it's already build inside the mosfet.
i have an idea to make a Li-ion battery charger but i have no engineering experience i did some learning but i am not sure if you can change a Li-ion battery in this method. Assume you created a 12v li-ion battery and only changered it up to 80% capacity (Which from my research 80% is good if you do not want to stress the battery. would it be possiable to charge it say at a constant current of 200mAh or a little less, until the cell voltage reaches 4.0 Volts then cut the charging process off. if what i learnt was correct, if you charge the battery at a low current. by the time the voltage increases the cell is practically full. I'm trying to have an inexpensive way to charge them from solar panels as a type of back up source, Without complex a complex design. Please share your thoughts with me.
Is a battery protection circuit enough to charge a 3.7v battery at 5v? I just want to slowly trickle charge it at 0.1C with a 5.5v (4.9 because of the diode) solar panel.
Say i've calculated that my battery need 25ma to charge and my circuit also needs 25ma, So i set the charger to 50ma.
what if my circuit draws 1ma at one point?? Is it going to damage the cell?
Hi Dave, I'm not fully agree about the amount of energy accumulated since the voltage reaches 4.2v and the current starts to fall. I have bought an Icharger 206B and made some experiments with the three types of balance modes it brings. I have logg all the charging proccess data and I would like to share it with you because I know you will get more information about them than me and maybe make another intersting video. If you are interested in, please let me know how to send you the data. The software I am using to see the data is LogView Studio.
I haven't had a chance to watch the video yet but do you have any books, eBooks or websites that you could recommend that i could learn more basic electronics than what you do?
Dave, I realise you may not have time, but I'd love you to look at these "hemp batteries" that supposedly outperform lithium ion. Is that for real? Could you verify some or put them on test?
hemp = 18650 li-ion ?
Hey Dave, will this method work for RC lithium ion battery packs?
yo did you find it out? justcurious
@@asificam1 q
If you took a Li battery out of an old electronic device how do you find you what kind of Li battery you have? the one I found didn't have any specs on it.
they teach us about op amps but they dont teach us about lithium cells in our engineering course, not like they're used everywhere.
how to voltage decrease of lithium ion cell by electronic circuit 3.6v to 1.5 v
I have a 3.7V li-ion battery that i would like to use in a project im doing, was wondering how to charge it, the battery is type 14500 and is 1000mAh, youre not supposed to use standard nicad battery chargers are you? the battery is AA sized. thanks.
What about safety issues with Li-Ion? this is what's keeping me from using them. a nimh will just vent when over charge, not explode.